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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Andrew James on Friday 02 January 09 13:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi can someone tell me what day of the week the 1901 census was taken.I know it was 31 march 1901.The reason is my great grandfather lived over a shop in Coleraine through the week and went home at weekends Regards Andrew
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Sunday, I think, but will try to double check .... ;)
PS. Welcome to rootschat!
PPS. Yes, it appears to have been a Sunday - would your gggrandfather have returned to the shop by the Sunday evening?
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Cheers mate
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31 March 1901 was indeed a Sunday(aren't they always taken on a Sunday?)
Edit- just found this " As always, it was taken on a Sunday - traditionally the day of least population movement"
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That's interesting Carol. I would have thought people would be travelling a lot on a Sunday, although they'd probably have arrived by the evening. :D
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Yeah Ruskie,the census wanted to know where you spent the night,not which rellies you visited during the day ;D ;D ;D
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;D
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Hi I don't know when he walked but i would have thought it would have been a Sunday to get there for Monday i think he lived in Aghadowey? seems a very long way to walk to Coleraine Andrew
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Don't forget Aghadowey station opened in 1880 and it was quite easy to get to Coleraine on the train. Many people also had bicycles. There was a teacher at Cullycapple School (not far from Aghadowey station) who lived at Strand Road in Coleraine- she apparently took the train in winter and cycled in warmer weather.
If you want to post the name and age I'll have a look through some of my records. I have 1901 census and some 1911 for much of Aghadowey as well as other details.
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Never thought of the train.To be honest i always thought my ggrandfather live in a place called Castleroe (and still think that).Two weeks ago when i was in Ireland i was told the story that my ggrandfather Robert Taylor McKay who was born 1873 and died 1943 used to walk to work from Aghadowey.Robert who was a tailor by trade worked and stayed above a shop in Coleraine. The name of the shop i think was called McCready's and was on Bridge Street?
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Can't see a McCready listed in Bridge St. in 197 or 1910 directories but maybe those are too late.
Robert Taylor McKay was a son of Alexander McKay and Mary McKeown. The family lived in the townland of Culdrum (part in Aghadowey Parish and part in Macosquin Parish- not sure without looking at maps where exactly their house was located). According to his baptismal record Robert was born 22 Feb.1874. According the register of Collins School he enrolled there Dec.1880 age 6 along with his brother Joseph.
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Cheers for that.I don't exactly know when he worked at McCready's Andrew
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Forgot to mention I have the baptismal and school records for the family as well as at least one marriage (Martha J. McKay to James McCurry) if you are interested. Also 1886 tenants list (Alexander McKay) - listing them in part of Culdrum in the parish of Macosquin- and earlier 1863 Tenants Notes (William McKay with wife, one child, his father and mother- poor old sick people).
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Any information on the McKay's would greatly be appreciated thanks
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Aghadowey Presbyterian church baptisms- children of Alexander McKay & Mary McKeown:
21 May 1875 Alexander (born 17 Apr.1869)
21 May 1875 James (born 29 Oct.1872)
21 May 1875 Robert Taylor (born 22 Feb.1874)
16 Oct.1876 Joseph (born 4 July 1876).
?Archy Reid (register damaged)
Birth registrations:
Martha Jane born 18 Feb.1865 Culdrum
Joseph McKay born 4 July 1876 Culdrum (informant Hannah Miller, Crossgar)
Possibly same family- see Martha** below: Crossgar Presbyterian Church, 27 Oct.1910, James McCurry, labourer, Kyles Brae [Coleraine], son of William McCurry, labourer, to Martha Jane McKay, Somerset [near Castleroe], dau. of Alexander McKay, farmer. Witnesses: Joseph McKay, Mary McCurry.
Collins School Registers:
William J. McKay, Culdrum, age 9, Dec.1868, Presbyterian, father- farmer
Alexander McKay, Culdrum, age 4, June 1874, Presbyterian, father- farmer
James McKay, Culdrum, age 4, May 1876, Presbyterian, father- farmer
Robert McKay, Culdrum, age 6, Dec.1880, Presbyterian, father- farmer
Joseph McKay, Culdrum, age 5, Dec.1880, Presbyterian, father- farmer
Archy McKay, Culdrum, age 4, June 1884, Presbyterian, father- farmer
**Martha McKay, Culdrum, age 4, Nov.1885, Presbyterian, father- farmer
Griffith's Valuation (1859)- Culdrum, Macosquin Parish: William McCoy- house, office and land- 12 acres 3 rods 35 perches- annual rent £7
Ironmongers Company- Notes on Tenants (1863): William McKay (13 acres 3 rods 3 perches) annual rent 8.10s. Wife, one child, and his father and mother, who are poor old sick people.
Ironmongers Company- Tenants List (1886): Alexander McKay (13.3.3)
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Thank You for all that information to think i came on here to ask about the day on which the the1901 census was taken and you have given all my ggrandfathers family (yes Martha was his sister) when i digest all this information i will be touch Andrew
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Hi today i have received the birth certificate of Mary Ann Morrison she is the wife of Robert Taylor McKay .She was born on the 21 June 1874 her mother was Margaret Ann Hegarty and her father William Morrison it gives her place of birth as Castlerawe can anybody tell me where Castlerawe is? Regards Andrew
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If it's an Irish birth certificate it should give more details like registration district which should help find the townland.
Mary Ann's birth is listed in IGI as Co. Londonderry. Could the townland be Castleroe which is in Macosquin Parish (outside Coleraine)?
Added: Co. Londonderry makes sense going by the following-
William Morrison m.1873 Co.Derry to Margaret Ann Hegerty
Mary Anne Morrison m.1908 Co.Derry to Robert Taylor McKay
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the birth was registered in the district of Aughadowey coleraine
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Then it's Castleroe townland but comes under Aghadowey registration district.
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Thanks
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Hi Andrew James,
I can give you more information about the McKay family if you drop me an e-mail.
Clough
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Welcome to Rootschat, clough. Email addresses can't be posted online but after you've made 3 posts you can use PM (personal message) system to exchange email addresses and other personal details offline.
See Help-Page: www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Strolling through the Kyles as usual.
A census was not conducted on a date. It would have been all but impossible for the staff involved (local police) to be at every house in their district on a single day. So the idea that a census would be on a sunday carries little weight. Such a visit on a sunday would most likely have offended many in the day on every side of the comunity.
According to what I am told the local bobby carried the census book around and as he conducted his business the census book aquired the information at the same time.
Remember all they had was "shanks mare" for transport.
I have a very funny family story involving a visit by the local constable on such an errand and he had the census book carefully wrapped up with him. My father remembers the details being filled into the big book.
Hope this helps a little as I have noted several time assumptions that the census was on a particular date. It may have had to be completed by a certain date but it certainly was not all carried out on a particular day/date.
I was trying to attach a few pic's of a "big book" but mr computer says its too large.
Hope this helps a few folks
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The census forms were to be filled in by the head of the household on census night, and were to include details of all the occupants of the household on that night, Sunday the 31st March, 1901.
The census process involved at least two visits to each house by the enumerator - the first in the weeks preceding the census to leave the household forms with the family, and a second visit sometime after census night to collect the filled out forms, after ensuring the details had been filled out.
The date each household return (Form A) was collected is noted on the corresponding House & Building return - Form B.1.
Shane
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Hello Shane. Sorry if I mislead. I based my information on that supplied to me.
In Portglenone 1936 the local constable visited each houshold with the book and filled in all details. My father and uncle were present and are still alive. Also I am posetion of that actual book/ledger so that census must have had to be over seen by plod for some reason otherwise the visit would not have been required.
The book is signed off as being completed March 1937.
Question for Shane.
There seemed to be some surprise by Aghadowey about a census in 36 or 37 so was there no census around that time conducted in the manner I describe. I may have got the ROI versus NI 36 37 mixed up a bit but as best I am aware what I have is a legitimate census book/ledger.
Again sorry if I presupposed the earlier census to have been conducted in the same manner.
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There seems to be a mix up here between "Household Returns" and "Enumerator's Returns". The actual "census" is based on the Householder Returns which record those present in a household on census night (a specified date). Enumerators (usually local police) visited each house in the way Shane describes and compiled their own returns from the information in the household returns (i.e. they separately recorded the information relating to census night in the books such as you have based on the forms collected from each household). The Household returns were then collected centrally and these are the pages we see in the 1901 and 1911 census website.
1911 was the last all Ireland census and NI has had separate censuses in 1926 (destroyed in WWII), 1937, 1951, 1961, 1971, 1981, 1991, 2001 and 2011.
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Reading with interest, the replies above as to how the census forms were collected.
Is it possible that a household in 1901 could be missed out by the enumerators when they came back to collect the form or did they keep going back until they got the form? I have a family who isnt enumerated anywhere in Ireland for 1901, they appear to have filled in a census form for 1911 ok! ( I have tried spelling variations of the name, searching by occupation etc etc and all the wildcard searches in each and every county!)
So would there be many families who would not have filled in a census form?
thanks
Diggie
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It was possible for people to be missed out of the census for various reasons, as I'm sure also happens to some degree with modern census details.
The most common reason for not locating someone on the 1901 or 1911 returns is unusual spelling, or mistranscriptions. People's ages being slightly 'out' can also add to the difficulty..
There are some details missing from the online returns - forms for some townlands/streets have been damaged or lost, others were never filmed so not available to be digitized etc.
Have you searched the 1901 return for the same townland/street as the family appear in 1911 to see if it's available ?
Shane
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Some returns/areas from census were not originally microfilmed and don't appears online yet. Other places are totally mis-transcribed making them difficult to find online. You can report transcription errors for people but not places on the National Archives website.
For example, the entire Aghadowey D.E.D. is listed as Aghadowney in 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
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Right.
I'm new to this game and although this has little to do with the origonal post but I would like a little help seeing as there are two moderators contributing here.
A couple of differant questions.
First
I would like a little input on whether or not the information I have is of any value (not monetary as society seems to value only that) or whether I should just set it on a shelf untill it is published about 2037.
Secondly
How is one to treat or handle the people posting here who are looking for the living relitaves rather than the deceased. Sometimes it is not obvious whether there could have perhaps a little family secret.
Thanks in advance.
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Secondly
How is one to treat or handle the people posting here who are looking for the living relitaves rather than the deceased. Sometimes it is not obvious whether there could have perhaps a little family secret.
The second question is easily answered- Rootchat policy does not allow posting details or living or possibly living people (this is explained in Help pages), Regarding 1937 resource- many of the people listed could still be living- if in doubt we err on the side of caution.
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Regarding your first question - it is undoubtedly of great genealogical value as it should mirror the census returns held at PRONI (and closed to public access until 2037). Publishing details from it could be legally "problematic" , though so I wouldn't put it on a public forum such as this. You could probably pass on information you have gained as part of you general research - including details confirmed for looking at any (unnamed) source available to you - by PM (or on site, if the people referred to are now dead) ;).
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Of the people still living in the area there are 11 of the listed names still alive and 3 of those are directly linked to myself.
Anyhow there are a few of the moderators now that understand the information may be available for lets say "private use"
I can see that the moderators are likely to be understanding about who or what should be looked up.
I didnt like the idea that such information would stay hidden untill half way into the century. Never mind the listed names, the offspring are also likely to be deceased by that point.
I understand all to well all about the little things that happen and are hidden from view and that such things should they become public they would cause upset. However we have read the listings from cover to cover and no one can see or understand anything that could be "embarrasing" even by the 1900s standards. After all most of such things would already have been covered up prior to such recording.
Anyhow, it may be available at my grace but will not be leaving the property.
I dont know where you are all from but would I be correct in thinking Aghadowey is local to the area. This being the case maybe Aghadowey might be interested in this more than others.
Thanks in advance
D
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"I dont know where you are all from but would I be correct in thinking Aghadowey is local to the area. This being the case maybe Aghadowey might be interested in this more than others."
Aghadowey isn't near Portglenone :)
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Its that far away I go there for electrical gear. Takes near to a week for the round trip. 14 mile
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In terms of genealogical research Portglenone is quite far from Aghadowey (my grandfather's uncle once mentioned his parents lived a great distance from each other- 7 miles)- about 15 miles from centre of Aghadowey (near SRK) to Portglenone.
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That would be very correct.
What I have asked for and would like is a little advice on how the little bit of info I have could be used to help without offending or annoying anyone.
Like I said earlier we have looked at this for years and cannot see anything that might cause offence. My father would be of the opinion that there were changes in society and how certain events were handled.
Unfortunatley I see a lot of these things from both sides and could have saved myself a load of trouble had records been more readily available rather than after my demise.
So would yourself or any of our local contributers/moderators like to advise/see/use the information. I would be of the opinion that one more accustomed to this game is probably better placed. Someone who has accumlated a year of their life 24/7 on line with this type of thing has seen a lot of water go beneath the bridge by now.
If there is no interest I'll just park it. It certainly isnt going back to the skip.