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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Jean McGurn on Sunday 04 January 09 07:48 GMT (UK)
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Have just discovered a possible relative who died at Waterloo in 1815.
Private Michl McGURN
Captain Charles Hawes Company
32nd Regiment of Foot
killed in action
I know from searching various sites for details of the 32nd, Waterloo and Pennisula Wars that the 32nd was a Cornish Regiment. They were in various battles and also in 1801/2 were in Ireland, which is where presumably Michl joined the Regiment.
Question is where do I go from here?
In 1801 the Regiment was in Dundalk and Kilkenny.
In 1802 the Regiment were employed suppressing a rebellion and at some time were in Enniskillen.
Have tried to find out more about the Irish connections but no luck.
So why would an Irishman join a Cornish Regiment and not one of the Irish Regiments. Haven't, as yet, found any details of the rebellion.
Also, in view of the number of deaths at the Battle of Waterloo, where would the bodies have been buried?
Jean
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So why would an Irishman join a Cornish Regiment and not one of the Irish Regiments.
There were many, many Irishmen in the British Army, and in every single regiment of the army, not just the Irish ones. So no great significance to his choice of regiment.
In the early 1830s it was estimated that 40% of all men in the British Army were born in Ireland!
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The 32nd is, in my opinion the most overlooked British Regiment at Waterloo - they were virtually annihilated but are granted almost no mention in histories of the battle. The regiment lost 63 killed in action with a further 31 dying of wounds.
In the ranks of the 32nd there was a colourful blend of English and Irish, with a broad hotchpotch of men coming from almost every corner of the two countries. There were men from 28 English counties (Somerset and Warwickshire having slightly above average) and 27 Irish counties. The ratio was approximately 58% English and 40% Irish, with the remainder of only 2% being born in Scotland or Wales.
hope this is of interest
Kind regards
Martin Aaron
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I have come to the same conclusion Martin, after searching all over the web and reading countless sites dedicated to Waterloo and other Napoleonic wars, all there seems to be is who was in charge. Not a lot about the regiment's part in the battle it's heroism.
Couldn't even find on any maps of the battle were the regiment had been on the field.
Thank you for the extra info on how the regiment was made up from men from all over the country. Most of the info I could find was that the 32nd eventualy became the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry in the late 19c.
I had presumed this was because the regiment had been mainly Cornishmen, clearly this wasn't the case.
Jean
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I expect this message is unnecessary in view of the time since your enquiry of Jan 2009. However, I have an ancestor who fought at Waterloo with the 32nd regiment and was "grievously wounded with a musquet ball through the right leg"
1) the 32nd regiment was not designated a Cornish regiment until mid victorian times when there were a number of reforms including abolition of purchase of commissions. There was no previous formal link to Cornwall. My ancestor came from Durham. He spent time in Chelsea hospital and I have a page from the hospital register with 20 entries of whom there was one Cornishman and many Irishmen. Since regiments are not shown on the page I think all entries on the page are to do with the 32nd.
2) The regiment was part of the 5th brigade or reserve corps both at Quatre Bras and Waterloo and its use was controlled by Wellington himself. As far as I can tell the corps arrived at QB at 3 pm in time to help halt the French attack. At W there are references to it being in a "sunken lane" behind the centre of the ridge occupied by the centre of the Alllied army and I guess subsequently defended the position against the successive French cavalry attacks and artillery bombardment prior to the defeat of the French "Old Guard"
3) You can get a timeline or chronology of the regiment from the internet. My ancestor fought through the Peninsular war and was awarded a peninsula medal with 8 bars which were only given to survivors in about 1848
Hope this helps
Jon
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hi all if you want a good read on this subject try bernard cornwells sharpe it is fiction but is based on fact.
neil
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Thanks for the info Jon, it is very interesting and you have given info I so far haven't found. I do wonder why, if there were no links to Cornwall, the 32nd ended up as a Cornish Regiment.
Neil I am a great fan of Sharpe and when I think of the sort of life Michl had I hope he had friends such as in those books.
Since finding him I have also watched the film Waterloo and imagine he may have been similar to the character with the little pig in his knapsack. :)
Jean
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hi jean ive read all the books several times over and wouldnt like to think how ofton ive seen the tv programes.
neil
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I must apologise for my previous message in which I said that the 32nd regiment had no formal links with Cornwall before the Army reforms of the late Victorian period. I have found the following on Wikipedia:
"On 21 August 1782, the Commander-in-Chief of the Forces, Henry Seymour Conway, issued a regulation giving an English county designation to each regiment of foot other than those with a royal title or highland regiments. The intention was to improve recruitment during the unpopular American War of Independence, and the Secretary at War, Thomas Townshend issued a circular letter to the lieutenants of each county in England in the following terms:
My Lord,
The very great deficiency of men in the regiments of infantry being so very detrimental to the public service, the king has thought proper to give the names of the different counties to the old corps, in hopes that, by the zeal and activity of the principal nobility and gentry in the several counties, some considerable assistance may be given towards recruiting these regiments". [8]
The names of the counties were added to the regimental titles in parentheses, ranging from the 3rd (Buffs – East Kent) Regiment of Foot to the 70th (Surrey) Regiment of Foot. In some cases more than one regiment was allocated to a county, for eample, the 38th (1st Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot and 64th (2nd Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot.[9] The attempt to link regimental areas to specific counties was found to be impractical, with regiments preferring to recruit from major centres of population.[10] By June 1783 each regiment was again recruiting throughout the country, although the county names were to remain.[11] In a few cases, affiliations were altered: for example the 14th and 16th Foot "exchanged" counties in 1809.[12]"
So there was a formal link to Cornwall but no recruitment limits
Jon
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a very intresting posting jon
neil
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As Neil say very interesting.
I knew that regiments in the 17th century were usually named after the person who raised them then when after the restoration regiments tended to be numbered but I hadn't realised just how the County regiments were raised.
Jean
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Hello
I am the Serjeant of the living history group 32nd Cornwall Regiment of Foot 1808-1815 and it is very interesting to read your comments
As you have said this regiment had little written about it regarding the battles of Quatre Bras & Waterloo we think it was because there was nothing outstanding about their actions they just "STOOD" enthusiasts of the period will understand that was considered a reliable reputation to have
We do not have many personal records of the 32nd men so please don't ask us lots of questions that we couldn't possibly answer - however if anyone is interested in the life of a soldier in Wellingtons army we will try and help
We are trying to fill in the gaps to find the men of the 32nd so Jean if you have any info on Private Michl McGURN we would love to hear it
Also John do you know where your ancestor is buried as we are trying to trace as many of the survivors as possible
Many thanks
Serjeant http://32ndregiment.club.officelive.com
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Am afraid all I know about Michl is the info I have posted. However the surname McGurn is not a very common one and I have reason to believe that in the early 1800's most were related to each other.
If I come across any more info I will let you know.
Jean
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Greetings from Australia,
I recently purchased the death certificate of an ancestor, Alexander Wyatt, who migrated from France to Australia around 1841. On the certificate, under his father's occupation, it stated William Thomas Wyatt was a Captain in the 32nd Regiment of Foot.
William was born in Yorkshire and heir to his father's estate in Horsted Keynes, Sussex; however, his father outlived him. William married a French woman in exile in England during the revolution "terrors" and moved with her to France after things settled, since she inherited title in Rouen. According to the "Register of Burials in the City of Paris from 1815 to 1850", he was buried in Paris on 13 August 1830.
Awhile ago I found a site which may be of interest: The Association of Friends of the Waterloo Committee.
It has an "Update on the Waterloo Register" being compiled by David Milner, to register people known to have been at Waterloo, or even who may possibly have been there. http://www.waterloocommittee.org.uk/coming_events.html
There is also a Register of Memorials being collated for publication by Janet and David Bromley. http://www.waterloocommittee.org.uk/reg_memorials.html
Cheers,
Julie.
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Hi Julie
Interesting stuff, we will have to look up Alexander Wyatt - What a story -
Our Commanding Officer is a life member of the Friends of Waterloo and we send all the information on the 32nd graves we find to Janet and David Bromley
Thanks for all the information
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hi julie welcome to rootschat.
neil
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Hi serjeant,
What a quick response! :)
Sorry, I must have confused the issue with too much info.
William Thomas Wyatt is the possible Waterloo veteran; buried in Paris somewhere, possibly Versailles.
Alexander was his son, who migrated to Australia.
I would be very grateful for any confirmation, or otherwise, of William's involvement. Finding out about this ancestor has opened a whole new door of history to me whichever way it goes.
Cheers,
Julie
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Thanks, Neil :)
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William Thomas Wyatt is the possible Waterloo veteran....
As William was apparently an officer, you could start by tracing his career through Army Lists, London Gazette and the like.
I have to say though, if he's not on the Waterloo Roll Call or the medal roll it's most unlikely he was there. I can double check the medal roll for you over the weekend.
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Hi
Iam interested in this post as I have just got the discharge papers for two family members who fought at Quatre Bras and Waterloo.
The first was Smith McDole who was in Captain David Davies company of the 32nd - he was shot in the ankle at Quatre Bras on 16 June 1815 and was pensioned off as a result. He is on the Waterloo Medal Roll.
The second is Nathaniel Dunsheath who joined 32nd in Jan 1811 and was finally pensioned off in 1835 aged 40. According to his papers he got 2 years extra for having been at Waterloo. BUT I can't find him on medal roll - he also served 8 years in the Ionian Islands - anyone have any idea what 32nd would have been doing there ?????
Why if he got the extra pension for Waterloo is he not on medal roll.
For Serjeant - these are two more men to be added to list of 32nd at Waterloo.
By the way both these men came from Co Antrim, Ireland.
Yvone
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Hi Yvone
Thanks for joining in - great to hear about more of the regiment - when did Smith McDole join the Regiment ?
Ref Ionian Islands
1815 - 32nd at Netherlands. Brussels. Quartre Bras - 16th June and Waterloo - 18th June. The 32nd, under Lieutenant-Colonel John Hicks, were placed in General James Kempt's Brigade in Sir Thomas Picton's Fifth Division. Paris.
1816 - 32nd at Sheernes, Channel Islands, Portsmouth.
1817 - 32nd to Ionian Islands.
Ionian Islands, group of islands, western Greece, forming an administrative region, in the Ionian and Mediterranean seas. In 1814 the islands became a British protectorate.
Do you happen to know where Smith McDole and Nathaniel Dunsheath are buried ? Did they return to County Antrim after their discharge
Hi Julie
I am sorry to say we can't find reference to Alexander Wyatt
Serjeant
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Hi again
Smith McDole ( as he is in army docs but name was really McDowell) was born in Ballymena, Co Antrim in 1795 - joined the 32nd on 21 June 1813 - aged 18 - discharged 11 Dec 1815 - he returned to Co Antrim and settled in the village of Connor seven miles from Ballymena - married and had several children - one was Esther born 1819 - Smith is buried in Connor.
Nathaniel Dunsheath was born near the village of Clogh north of Ballymena on 26 Jan 1795 -he joined 26 Jan 1811 (his 16th birthday) - came back to Ballymena after discharge in 1835 - went to see his old friend Smith - met and soon married Smith's daughter Esther - had three sons and then died cir 1850 - also believed to be buried in Connor.
Thanks for info re Ionian islands - so looks as if Nat was there 1817 to around 1825 if he did 8 years there.
BTW I now have found another Dunseath who was in 32nd and his discharge also says he was at Waterloo.
James Dunsheathe joined 7 Dec 1810 - born Ahoghill near Ballymena Co Antrim - born 6 Dec 1798
James Dunsheathe was a bad boy - promoted to Sergeant in 1831 and demotted -for many offences involving alcohol and theft - served a prison sentence and was booted out in 1837 - but again discharge says he was at Waterloo. He was still under age in June 1815.
Yvonne
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Thanks Yvonne
That's great information - really puts meat on the bones rather than just names on the regimental role.
Apologies for my blunt army attitude but Nathaniel sounds a bit of a rogue as well marrying his friends daughter when he was the same age as her father
Do you have any info on which churchyard in Connor they are buried in ? ( I am sure that is not grammatically correct but this is too exciting )
Thanks
Serjeant
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Yes I do know where they are buried although they don't have a headstone - there are only two graveyards in Connor - it is a small village now but then would be rural farming area. The two are attached to the churches - one is C of I (Anglician) and the other Presbyterian - Both the McDowell and the Dunsheaths were Pesbyterians so they are buried at Connor Presbyterian Church. Nat was my 3 x great grandfather's brother. His wfe Esther was 19 when they married and he was 43 !!!!! As I said they had 3 sons then Nat died and Esther married a man a good bit younger then her this time - they went to Scotland and died there. Marriage certs for two of Nat's sons in Scotland give their father as Nathaniel Dunsheath a soldier deceased - other (the older one who would have remembered him) says he was a labourer deceased. I assume he was a farm labourer after he left off soldiering. Other two younger boy probably just heard stories of dad going to war.
Yes I agree it does not look good for Nat - that he was same age as his dad in law ::)
James Dunsheathe was Nat's cousin or 2nd cousin He seems he have been a rogue - one charge was he gave a Private a large glass of spirits then reported the poor lad for being unfit for duty. I love the naughty ones - makes more interesting reading.
Now can you tell me is there a reason why Nat and James would not be on medal roll when their papers say they were at Waterloo ?
Yvonne.
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Hi Serjeant,
It would have been William Wyatt, Alexander Wyatt's father. But David Milner said he could not find a Captain Wyatt in 32nd Foot anyway, so it sounds like there was an error on Alexander's death certificate where his father, William, was recorded as being a Captain in the 32nd Foot. This is a mystery in its own right. Thanks for your interest. I'll let you know if I find out more.
Sounds like there are some happy outcomes, though.
Cheers all,
Julie
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Hi Yvonne
OK we are stumped, we can't find any reason why they wouldn't have got their medals
One suggestion was that they had to be applied for but can't find any evidence to back this up
Mercers account of Waterloo is one of the most detailed, if exaggerated, narratives of the battle but the story goes that he didn't get one either !!!
I think I will have to annoy the real historians of the battle rather than our general interest
When/if I get a reply I will let you know post (or is it Forum nowadays) haste
Cheers Serjeant
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That's a point! Didn't they get an invitation to apply for a medal in the 1840s? So does this mean if they died before that or missed out applying for some other reason they wouldn't be on the medal roll?
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That certainly was the case as I understand it for the general service medal which was awarded to those that fought in the Peninsula, but the Waterloo medal was awarded quite soon after the battle
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Hi all
Not a very firm set of answers back I am afraid, some are even saying it is a "poor research" problem which is not very helpful Hurrumph !
Basically most of the replies are along the lines of
I have a very nice MGS with 4 clasps to Lt Benjamin Martin, 4th Foot,he fought in North America where he was severely wounded.In one Waterloo roll it is noted that he was at Ostend just prior to the battle of Waterloo.I feel that he may have still been recovering from his wounds and was possibly in charge of some sort of rear party.However he DID get his portion of prize money for the battle (about 35 pounds) and therefor must have proceeded to Paris with the Regiment.I doubt that he received the medal.
Perhaps some of the private soldiers were credited with two years service even if they did not qualify for the medal, because they also finished up in Paris.I do not know if officers also received two years credited service as they had got the prize money
There are several Waterloo medal awards to Officers who may have been at the battle, but were possibly not.
As you suggested he could well have been carrying out other duties, far from the battle, but when the nominations were put forward, it was probably found to be more acceptable to include that Officer rather than discount him.
I am not sure if the criteria actually mentioned "only Officers present at Quatre Bras +/or Waterloo to receive the medal" and there is certainly at least one who was in hospital at the time, yet did receive the medal
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Thanks for that - I didn't think we would get a definitive answer - but as far as research goes - I can't accept your contacts remark re poor research - I got Nat's pension papers and looked under every possible spelling of his name on the medal roll - even just looking for any Nathaniel or any Nat or Nath - and asking questions on various forums so I can't see how my research could have been any better and am sure you would agree. I suppose it is possible as you say that he may have ended up in Paris so for pension purposes they assumed he had been at Waterloo (but that sounds a bit feeble) if they assumed he was at battle for pension would they not have assumed same for the medal. But anyway I am more than happy with info from his papers and I will award him my own medal as I am sure he saw some terrible sights. :'(
As an added bit of info another of my 2 x granduncles was at Waterloo as one of 2 drummers with Lt Col West's company 2nd Foot Guards now the Grenadiers - he was James Elliker and I finally found him on the roll as James EAKER. ??? - shows I do persevere. ::)
Yvonne
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No Yvonne I agree, it is very unlikely and quite annoying to be dismissed as a "poor research" error
I think it more likely that the records do not fill in the gaps with some soldiers detached or elsewhere but still qualify as Waterloo veterans
I do heartily agree with your awarding him a medal for being a forgotton soldier of a forgotton regiment, I will raise a glass (or two) to him and the other veterans when we re-fight the battle on the field of Waterloo next June
If you are OK with it I will pass on your info about James Elliker to the Drum Major of the present 2nd Queens Royal Regiment he will be thrilled
Please keep the thread going
Thanks Serjeant
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Hi All, My ggg Grandfather John Common was in the 33rd regiment of foot and fought at Waterloo.
However according to a relative of mine ( another of Johns g g g grandsons) who has been to Kew and checked through the regimental muster rolls his name was incorrectly written as John Cumming throughout his time in the regiment.
I know Jean has said she has tried allsorts of spelling variations but John Commons case shows that mistakes did happen.
regards Malcolm.
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Serjeant
Re James Elliker - if you want extra info on him I can tell you when and where he joined - when he was discharged, and where he is buried. He was thirteen years and one month old when he joined up - 19 when at Waterloo - served 27 yrs even before extra for Waterloo - I was amazed when I researched the battle as all I knew was from school history - but when you know rellies fought there you want to know more - I wonder how many know just how young the youngest soldier was (I believe he was 9) and that babies were born on or near battlefield.
I would love it if you raised a glass to all the forgotten at Waterloo - so many were just cannon fodder.
Would love to be at your re-enactment - maybe some year I wll.
Yvonne
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The 33rd First Yorkshire West Riding is now represented by an outstanding group that do great displays
For info
The details I have seen show the first day of the battle of the Somme detailing 60,000 casualties the 9 hour battle of Waterloo 51,000 but the main difference is that Waterloo shaped Europe and was the reason for a "relatively" peaceful 100 years whereas the Somme, apart from taking the pressure off the French part of the western front, achieved very little
I will pass on the interesting details of John Common/Cumming which does demonstrate the fact that the majority of soldiers were illiterate but I am sure that Yvonne has checked all spellings
We have commemorated the battle over the grave of Philip Cleer/Clear/Clare each year at Veryon churchyard
If you do want to join in anytime Yvonne, or anyone else, please do contact me
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I am getting some answers now
Such as
32nd Ft
Capt David Davie's Co:
Pte Smith McDole
Capt Charles Hawe's Co.
Pte James Dumheath
Capt Charles Wallett's Co.
Pte Danl Dumheath. (as Alec states above)
McDole appears rightly so, having been wounded at Quatre Bras.
The surname is so close it certainly appears clerical error. If Daniel Dumheath is Nathaniel Dunsheath,his brother/relative James is also on the NA Archive. A calculated guess here is that Daniel and James are brothers, or at least related.
But now check this WO 97 out for Nathaniel Dunsheath:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ssmethod=0
then, the brother/relative James:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ssmethod=0
Now, using the above records, which goes someway to show that Nathaniel & James are both from Antrim, and probably related. This appears to prove what Alec states is that Nathaniel is in fact Daniel on the printed Waterloo roll..
To increase the family tree, maybe Hugh is related too: Who qualified for an MGS clasp Java and appears on the MGS Roll with the 69th.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... image1.y=0
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Thanks very much for that - I had medal roll for Smith and I have the Chelsea Pensioner files for Smith and for every Dunsheath there is on NA - that's how I knew both Nat and James were at Waterloo - I looked for all spellings I could think of - ie anyone whose name started DUN - and sifted through a lot of DUNCAN!!! I tried putting in no surname and just put in Nathaniel – then Nath – then Nat – I didn’t think they would get his first name blitzed completely as well. But DUMHEATH – that’s a new one for the books. I am sure Dan/l is Nath as there are no Daniel’s at all in the Dunsheath family tree. Nath and James are either brothers or cousins – I can’t tell as he had a brother and a cousin James born around same time. Hugh is a farther out rellie as he was born in Co Londonderry – NA papers give Lessing but it was Lislane. (accent making it sound like Lessing) I am very glad to see Nath and James got their well deserved medal. Thanks +++++ for taking the time to track them down. So now I can say I had 4 relations at Waterloo (counting James Elliker in the Grenadiers) I wonder if many people can beat that – I am sure there are loads with whole families fighting.
Yvonne
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What a great bit of detective work you've both done! A pleasure to read and very instructive about the lateral thinking we need with this kind of research :)
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For the Serjeant of the living history group of the 32nd regiment
re your question of 11 August, I believe that my ancestor (Andrew Knox) was
buried in Durham in Apr-Jun 1864. He was shown on the 1861 census as living in Cassop (aged 83) in the household of a man aged 27 whose wife had been previously married to a great nephew (presumably dead) of Andrew. The 1861 census described Andrew as "pensioner 32nd regiment". In the household there were also 3 step children from the first marriage and a month old baby from the second marriage! Andrew is recorded in the census as "uncle". Andrew was also shown in Durham in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. He was also described as "widower" in 1851 and 1861 but I have not traced when or how often he was married Regards Jon
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I've come across this website having recently watched Terry Wogan's recent TV programme where he visited 'Powerscourt', an estate which was owned, in the 19th century by the Wingfield family. Many years ago I had researched the DCLI/32nd of Foot on behalf of an American family who happen to have my surname and discovered that the regiment was serving under Lt Col Wingfield in Canada in the 1830s. Whether there is any connection I know not, however trawling through your website I came across a reference to the Royal Hospital at Chelsea. The Americans had given me a copy of a discharge certificate of their soldier ancestor which bore not only Colonel Wingfield's signature, but also the rubber stamp of the Royal Hospital. I looked into this and discovered that ALL soldiers records and discharge details were administered by the Royal Hospital in those days. The 'received' rubber stamp on the discharge certificate is dated 1874 and as the soldier concerned was born in 1800 I assume the certificate was 'processed' by the Royal Hospital at the time of the soldier's death. It would appear from other records that the soldier remained in Canada, with his wife and son, having been discharged, and possibly having been granted a pension.
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I've only just spotted this topic.
I'm a direct descendent of the Philip Clear who is buried in Veryan churchyard here in Cornwall.
It's lovely that his grave is commemorated.
J.
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Hi All, My ggg Grandfather John Common was in the 33rd regiment of foot and fought at Waterloo.
However according to a relative of mine ( another of Johns g g g grandsons) who has been to Kew and checked through the regimental muster rolls his name was incorrectly written as John Cumming throughout his time in the regiment.
I know Jean has said she has tried allsorts of spelling variations but John Commons case shows that mistakes did happen.
regards Malcolm.
Malcolm
Is this the Sergeant Common who was with the Northumberland Militia in Ireland? I have a few references to him in the correspondence of the Thain family. He seems to have been responsible for drilling young William Thain who transfered into the 33rd foot in the regular army. William Thain wrote from Europe after the suicide of the 33rd's adjutant , urging his father to get Common transfered to the 33rd, as Thain felt that the unit needed a good drill instructor and believed that Common could occupy the vacant adjutancy (not a common occurance, but a few Sergeants held this position in units). Not sure if you can email me via a link on this site? If not try the 33rd Foot re-enactment website's contact address and someone will forward it.
John R White. BTW an ancestor of mine joined fought the 33rd but died at Quatre Bras.
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Hi John - welcome to Rootschat.
We have a Personal Message system for exchanging personal info. You need to have made three posts to use it to deter spammers.
If you reply a couple of times on this thread you will then be eligible and can exchange email addresses in private. Any email address posted on the site will be deleted (again to deter spammers)
Milly
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Thanks for the advice.
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Hi
Iam interested in this post as I have just got the discharge papers for two family members who fought at Quatre Bras and Waterloo.
The first was Smith McDole who was in Captain David Davies company of the 32nd - he was shot in the ankle at Quatre Bras on 16 June 1815 and was pensioned off as a result. He is on the Waterloo Medal Roll.
The second is Nathaniel Dunsheath who joined 32nd in Jan 1811 and was finally pensioned off in 1835 aged 40. According to his papers he got 2 years extra for having been at Waterloo. BUT I can't find him on medal roll - he also served 8 years in the Ionian Islands - anyone have any idea what 32nd would have been doing there ?????
Why if he got the extra pension for Waterloo is he not on medal roll.
For Serjeant - these are two more men to be added to list of 32nd at Waterloo.
By the way both these men came from Co Antrim, Ireland.
Yvone
Yvone,
Possibly Nathaniel served with his unit in the campaign , but missed the two major battles, so got the two years bonus service but was not awarded a medal for the action.(s) The awarding of the medal could be hit and miss in an age without computers and a reliance on handwriting. Quite a lot of the unit would be absent on the day of battle due to being put to guard various types of baggage, wounded officers, medical stations etc , some would be detached as servants with absent officers, some would be sick a few ranks such as paymasters and paymaster sergeants, probably school master sergeants, were sometimes classed as none-combatants and would leave the fighting element of the battalion prior to an action. Some units chose to ignore this distinction, look at the disparity between the 33rd and the 2/69th who where in the same Brigade and actually fought as an amalgamated unit at Waterloo~ the 2/69th had some 60 men not present at the battle but they still recieved a Waterloo medal..some 12% of the ones issued to the unit. In contrast the 33rd, with a similar amount of absentees, refused to issue them to these individuals and also barred men who were found to have fled or in some cases left with the wounded but had not managied or contrived to return to the unit during the rest of the action.
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I came upon this thread and just had to enrol.
My ancestor was Samuel Wilson, who was born in Rotherham, Yorkshire around 1777. After serving with the Nottinghamshire Fencibles, he enlisted in the 32nd Regiment in 1799. His daughter Ann was born in Ireland while the regiment was based there in either 1802 or 1807. Samuel was with the regiment during the Peninsular Campaign and he was wounded in the foot at Waterloo. He was with the regiment in the Ionian Islands (Corfu) when he was pensioned off in 1819. Samuel must have been illiterate as he retired a private after 20 years and 5 months service, including the Waterloo bonus years. He returned to Ireland, but probably had trouble finding work in the post war economic recession as he emigrated with his family to Nova Scotia in 1820. He selected NS as he had heard that they were awarding retiring militia soldiers 500 acres of land and Samuel reckoned regular army service more than qualified. Arriving in NS, he was informed that he did not qualify. He submitted a request and probably due to his celebrity as a Waterloo veteran, he was given a 500 acre grant after a couple of years. In the 1830's the British Government, as part of a cost cutting exercise, offered military pensioners an opportunity to exchange their pensions for a 500 acre land grant. Samuel, no doubt thinking about taking care of his family, accepted the offer. He died some time in the 1860's.
I do not know if he is on the Waterloo Medal list. Where can I find it?
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Here is his Waterloo medal roll entry - http://tinyurl.com/lqyvgl2 - it is on a supplementary list
Men got two years extra service for Waterloo. Ancestry has one page of his discharge record in the 'Canada' records; while Findmypast also have the second side. It says he was also wounded at Salamanca.
It looks as if he signed his name, so why do you think he was illiterate?
Ken
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Ken,
Thanks for the help. I was able to get a copy of his discharge papers from Kew. I assume that this would be the same as listed in Ancestry and Findmypast. I must check those out. Interesting that Ancestry has him in the 'Canada' records.
I always assumed that Samuel was illiterate because he was never promoted in rank. His discharge papers give no indication of disciplinary problems. The prime requirement for promotion was literacy and numeracy. After 20 years, with no discipline problems, he retired as a private soldier.
Rick
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Hi Rick
It is not clear why they produced the 'Canada' records. They seem to be regiments that served in Canada. It does not mean he did.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Too bad. I was thinking that if he took his pension in Canada, the Canadian government would have needed to have his discharge papers on file.
Rick
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On the back of his discharge it says that his intended residence was Rotherham and I think 'York' means where his pension would come from.
Ken
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Hi
Iam interested in this post as I have just got the discharge papers for two family members who fought at Quatre Bras and Waterloo.
The first was Smith McDole who was in Captain David Davies company of the 32nd - he was shot in the ankle at Quatre Bras on 16 June 1815 and was pensioned off as a result. He is on the Waterloo Medal Roll.
The second is Nathaniel Dunsheath who joined 32nd in Jan 1811 and was finally pensioned off in 1835 aged 40. According to his papers he got 2 years extra for having been at Waterloo. BUT I can't find him on medal roll - he also served 8 years in the Ionian Islands - anyone have any idea what 32nd would have been doing there ?????
Why if he got the extra pension for Waterloo is he not on medal roll.
For Serjeant - these are two more men to be added to list of 32nd at Waterloo.
By the way both these men came from Co Antrim, Ireland.
Yvone
Hi there, just came across this site while doing some research on Smith McDole.
As he is my G-G-G-G-Grandfather through his daughter Helen, then I guess we are related.
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It's been some time since this thread opened but in case anyone's still interested, may I recommend :
"With the 32nd in the Peninsular and other campaigns" by Harry (Henry) Ross-Lewin who commanded a company at Waterloo.
https://archive.org/details/withthirtysecon00wardgoog I don't it has been cited before here. If it has, apologies to whoever did so.
Came across it when researching a relative for a friend. The man in question joined in 1807 in Gloucestershire and served until 1817 so that part of the book represents his service history - fascinating! His joining record and medal record were all to be found.
maxD
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Not sure if this thread is still going but wanted to say that I am a direct ancestor of Philip Clear the Christian Soldier who is buried at Veryan Churchyard, he is my fourth great grandfather who served at the Battle of Waterloo in the 32nd Regiment of Foot.
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Hi
Iam interested in this post as I have just got the discharge papers for two family members who fought at Quatre Bras and Waterloo.
The first was Smith McDole who was in Captain David Davies company of the 32nd - he was shot in the ankle at Quatre Bras on 16 June 1815 and was pensioned off as a result. He is on the Waterloo Medal Roll.
The second is Nathaniel Dunsheath who joined 32nd in Jan 1811 and was finally pensioned off in 1835 aged 40. According to his papers he got 2 years extra for having been at Waterloo. BUT I can't find him on medal roll - he also served 8 years in the Ionian Islands - anyone have any idea what 32nd would have been doing there ?????
Why if he got the extra pension for Waterloo is he not on medal roll.
For Serjeant - these are two more men to be added to list of 32nd at Waterloo.
By the way both these men came from Co Antrim, Ireland.
Yvone
Hi there, just came across this site while doing some research on Smith McDole.
As he is my G-G-G-G-Grandfather through his daughter Helen, then I guess we are related.
Hi Yvone, I have just stumbled upon your request - regarding Nathaniel Dunsheath. I am aware it was an old posting, but still felt compelled to write this message and hopefully put your mind at rest. Nathaniel was awarded the Waterloo medal - his name is included on the "MINT" roll, which does mean he definitely was issued the Medal.
Regards Ed