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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: trchilds on Sunday 04 January 09 19:34 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone,
I am hoping to get some additional information on my Great Grandfather William Williamson, born 1878 in Elgin. I also know he had 1 brother, Thomas, born 1880. I am looking for any information on additional siblings. I would like to find out about his parents whose names I believe were Thomas Williamson and Margaret Lindsay. I don't know where the parents are from and when they were born. I do know they emigrated from Scotland. Thomas died in Montreal, Canada in 1886 and Margaret in 1914. Any information you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Tom
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Hi Tom
From IGI
George 8 Sep 1870 Elgin
Mary Ann 7 Jan 1874 Elgin
Charles 3 Oct 1872 Elgin
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From SP
Thomas Williamson m Margaret Lindsay in Rathven, Banff in 1867.
The image will cost £1.20 but will give ages at time of marriage, current addresses and both sets of parents.
Dave
Added - William's birth record will confirm whether his parents are Thomas W and Margaret L. It's on SP too. 1878 Elgin Moray
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Hi Dave,
Many thanks again. I have not used Scotlands people before but it looks fairly easy.
We hope to visit friends again this summer in Glasgow and if so want to stop in Belfast to do some research and also go to Paisley.
For a bit I wondered what you meant with SP, now I know.
Tom
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Tom,
It's worth reading this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/041v/
Some very good tips from david douglas
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Dave,
Just joined SP and found my Gr-Gr Grandparents marriage certificate with their parents info etc as you mentioned, very helpful.
I also checked out the post and it offers excellent suggestions. I am a novice so appreciate your help and others.
Take care.
tom
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Hello Tom,
I am a Williamson descendant. Aside from William and Thomas, additional children born to Thomas Williamson and Margaret Lindsay are:
George, Charles, Mary Ann, Robert and Jean. Most are buried in Toronto, either at St. John's Norway Cemetery or Mount Pleasant Cemetery.
Margaret Lindsay is the second wife of Thomas Williamson. His first wife and young daughter are also buried at Mt. Royal Cemetery, Montreal.
You are probably aware that William and Thomas married Watson sisters, Elizabeth and Rachel.
Hope this helps,
Gail
Ontario, Canada
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Hi Gail,
Thank you for your reply. My connection to Thomas Williamson/Margaret Lindsay is this way -
They were my maternal grandmother's grandparents. My Grandmother was born Ellen Williamson in 1901 and her parents were William Williamson (born 1878) and Elizabeth Watson (known as Betsey born 1876). I also knew many of the children of Thomas Williamson and Rachel Watson. The last, Elizabeth (known as Teddy) died in Scarborough in 2001.
Do you know the names of Thomas' first wife ,(inc maiden name), young daughter? Also I am missing their birth/death dates. I have located Thomas' and Margaret's marriage record from 1867 but it is difficult to read to discern dates etc.
Also any info on what year they came to Canada?
One last question, and sorry for so many, but I have a silver case with the name of Nellie Watson and the date of February 2, 1896. It was given to me by Teddy but I never did find out the family connection or who it was Nellie Watson.
I grew up in Scarborough but now live in Peterborough.
Thanks again and look forward to any info you may have. I do appreciate it!
Tom
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Hi Tom,
My connection is through Lindsay Williamson and his brother Charles Williamson (double connection) who are both brothers to Thomas Williamson.
Thomas's first wife is Jane/Jean Williamson, as is their youngest daughter. Off the top of my head, I think they had five children together.
As for coming to Canada - where do you I begin. First know record is circa 1855 when four or five Williamson families came to North America via New York. Government records show them in Canada anywhere from the 1860's up to early 1900, whether it be vital records, census records or passenger lists.
They were "Travelling People". Primarily horse dealers, tinsmiths and hawkers. Come late spring they would sail either to Canada or the US staying before winter set in, or in some cases one or two years before heading back to Scotland. Many records can be found in Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (ie. vital records & census) The Toronto City Directory shows a number of families living in the area around 1907. They are listed as horse dealers.
The Watson family (also the McMillan and Stewart's) are intertwinned with the Williamson's. In fact, my mother's grandparents (first cousins) married in Montreal in the late 1880's - witness to their nuptials was George Watson.
I've come across a Nellie Watson before. Let me recheck my files.
Small world! I too grew up in Scarborough and now live in Newmarket.
Regards,
Gail
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Hi Gail,
This makes us distant cousins!What a small world. My wife and I grew up just south of the Scarborough Town Centre and went to David and Mary Thomson CI for highschool in the 1970s.
I have been in contact with the heritage officers in Elgin, Rothes and Buckie, Scotland and gotten alot of information. Their records + cemetery records are now accessible via the net, a great source of information. I have also now written to Mount Royal Cemetery in Montreal to get the information off of Thomas Williamson's gravestone.
His parents I know were William and Mary (Nee Stewart) Williamson. I have Mary Stewart as being born in 1796 (In Buckie) Died in Montreal same year as year son, 1886. I do not have her husband's birth or death information. But I have found Mary Stewart's father in the records,, Alexander Stewart born circa 1770 but that is far as I have gotten.
I may have other information so will look. Do you know any info on Thomas Williamson's father (birth,death dates etc) or Mary Stewart's parents?
The Scottish records are really good. My Grandmother Ellen, born a Williamson in 1901, married my Grandfather, Joseph Christie, his father was Irish and it very difficult to track this information down. Fortunately his mother was born in Paisley, Scotland so have gotten good info from there.
Interesting you mentioned their occupations because my research shows the same. On the records it shows the men's occupations as Licensed Hawkers, horse dealers and tinsmiths. My aunt wondered if they were gypsies, well pretty close. I had thought they went where the work was, and it turns out this is the case.
Again, it is great to find someone in the family to network with to build the common family tree. Thanks!
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I know the area very well. Grew up as a kid in the Midland/Lawrence area. Attended Winston Churchill CI and Stephen Leacock CI in Agincourt.
The information you found at the Moray Heritage Centre has been kindly supplied by my cousin in Scotland, who in turn received a large portion of my research records. We've been collabrating our finds for several years now. Personally, I have worked on this branch for 10+ years and have an extensive collection of this branch and all branches connected within (ie. McMillan, Stewart, Watson, Jamieson, McNeil.....)
I don't have an exact birth date or place of birth for Mary Stewart (dau. of Alexander) nor an exact date of birth for her father. It is probable that she has a sister -- I show Betsy Stewart (dau. of Alexander). Betsy's daughter married one of Mary's sons (Charles). William and Mary had seven sons and one daughter [John, Thomas, Isaac, Alexander, James, Charles, Lindsay and Margaret] Five of the seven sons travelled to Canada during their lifetime and had children born/ died here. Two of the sons are buried in Toronto, one in Port Perry, one in Montreal and the remaining in Inverness and Tain, Scotland.
Needless to say, William Williamson has been very difficult to research. He died prior to his wife. When and where has not been determined (one possible theory is at sea). Still searching for his wife Mary (Stewart) in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 Scotland census (for clues) to no avail. I do have pictures of Thomas and his mother's (Mary Stewart) gravestone. William is mentioned in memory. Did the cemetery send you the other burial records?
Circumstantial evidence suggests William is the son of James Williamson and Margaret McMillan. Children of this couple have been strongly connected with William's family, both in Scotland and in North America.
Oral history tells the story of the Williamson's coming to Canada and buying horses to send back to Scotland. One such story, is how they sold horses (from Alberta) to the Canadian Military (overseas) during World War 1. Unfortunately, the army was unaware these fine specimens were "wild untrained horses" who bucked the soldiers off their backs. From the 1920's on wards, some were living in Kentucky breeding race horses.
You can now search the early passenger lists to Canada on-line at the Library and Archives of Canada (free site) or Ancestry (subscription). The latter is a wonderful resource, with digitized records of vitals, census records, passenger lists, boarder crossings etc. They do offer a free trial period.
Regards,
Gail
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Hi Gail,
This all makes sense to the stories I heard from my grandmother and her cousins, the travelling back and forth from the old country , and work involving horses. In both my great-grandfather's (William B 1878) and his brother Thomas (B1880) Williamsons' houses they had a carriage house at the back where they stored the horses. I can remember as I small boy trying to visualize this as by then they were garages and storage areas. This was on Logan and Degrassi streets in Toronto.
I also heard the same story of Mary Stewart's husband dying at sea after crossing 64 times. However I also heard this of another great-great grandfather George Watson (1838-1907). I don't know which story is true.
I do have in my possession 2 crayon photographs taken in the 1880s of Thomas Williamson (1826-1886) and George Watson from above. **I think Thomas' dates are correct but I have seen several other birth dates. The last of that generation, Elizabeth Williamson (1911-2001;dtr of Thomas) gave these along with other things to me when she moved out of her home in 2000, the home she had lived in since 1913. I have had them looked at by a conservator and they are in excellent shape and in the original bevelled glass frames. There is some damage but it is minor. The Thomas Williamson one is especially eerie as his eyes almost follow you around the room. He looks very austere and his long sideburns. At the same time I got this Nellie Watson silver box dated from 1896 which I would like to find out about.
I am still eagerly awaiting to hear from Mount Royal on the inscription information on Thomas Williamson and Mary Stewart's gravestones. I have never been to the cemetery only have heard they are buried there. In Mount Pleasant Cemetery Thomas is mentioned in memory only, it notes he is interred in Montreal.
Do you know who was Mary Stewart's mother (and William Williamson's wife?). I can't seem to find anything her way. I have become the family historian and am always excited to talk to other family researchers, especially when we have a family connection. This is why I think the internet is wonderful, for the retrieval of information and for connecting people together.
Tom
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Tom / Gail,
That's great you connected with each other.
Hope you're able to help each other out.
Dave
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Dave,
I can't thank you and everyone else on here enough, I wish I had found it earlier. As I mentioned before we started travelling back to Glasgow a few years ago and it re-ignited my passion to learn more on the family history.
Since coming online I have found a 2nd cousin in Belfast, a 3rd cousin in the USA and this new cousin (I can't even figure out the number). The main thing is we have a common family past which we can share.
Talk to you soon from snowy Canada.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I too have inherited a box of photo's that once belonged to my great grandmother Mary Williamson. She is the daughter of Lindsay Williamson (niece of Thomas born 1826). They include photos of Lindsay, his daughter Mary and niece Mary Ann (dau. of Thomas and Margaret (Lindsay) , in addition to cousins etc.. Many of are unknown to me, however, two years ago another cousin [Margaret] was overwhelmed to find within my collection, pictures of her father, siblings and yes her grandmother Mary Ann Williamson (as above). One never knows, perhaps your family are in my little shoe box too! Would love to exchange. Margaret will be overjoyed when I tell her about you. You both share a common ancestors.
Interesting it is thought William Williamson died at sea. That has been a theory of mine for a number of years. Also, it is possible that Mary Stewart is the second wife of William, as he was much older than she (as per the 1851 Scotland Census).
Thomas's birth year was determined by census records and the age of death (My records state 1826).
It is unlikely that Mount Royal will provide tombstone inscriptions for two reasons. One - they are too busy and Two - they are now illegible (especially that of Thomas). Their records show Thomas died at the age of 60. However, I can provide you with his burial record --
THOMAS WILLIAMSON of the city of Montreal, horsedealer, died on the first day of December in the year one thousand eight hundred and eighty-six, and was buried by me on the third day of the same month in the presence of
Wm. J. Smyth
Minister
Calvin Church, Montreal, Quebec
George Watson (his signature)
James Williamson (his signature)
Burial record for Mary Stewart Williamson --
MARY STEWART WILLIAMSON, relict of the late William Williamson, Ireland, died on the eleventh day of November in the year one thousand eight hundred and eighty-six and was buried by me on the twelfth day of the same month in the presence of
Wm. J. Smyth
Minister
Calvin Church, Montreal, Quebec
James Williamson (his signature)
The tombstone reads as follows --
In Memory of, WILLIAM WILLIAMSON, of Invergordon Scotland, aged 85 years,
And His Wife,
MARY STEWART, Who Died at Montreal, Nov. 12 1886, aged 90 years.
[Note - the burial date was given as the death date]
Just a few of the many, many records I have in my possession.
Can you tell me when and where William Williamson and Elizabeth Watson married. I show she died 20 Oct 1929 and William on 7 Jan 1953. How many children did they have?
Any additional on Thomas Williamson and Rachel would be appreciated. I have the following:
Married 20 July 1903 in Renfrew, Ontario. Children: Ethel Rachel Victoria b 17 April 1906 Toronto; Mary 3 Nov 1907 Toronto & Margaret Joan 25 July 1909 Marina Village, Hastings Co., Ontario.
Have you traced the Watson and McMillan families?
Look forward to hearing from you,
Gail
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Hi Gail,
First off many many thanks for sending me this information. My head is almost to a point of exploding because the different lines contain so much information. I do have information on the families of William and Thomas Williamson and will send it to you
Let me go through those records and get them to you. I may not have exact dates but I do have information. As I said my Grandmother was the daughter of William Williamson (b1878) and Elizabeth (Called Betsey). They are buried in Mount Pleasant cemetery.
My grandmother's cousins were the children of Thomas Williamson and Rachael Watson. A odd story, of the 8 living children of this union only one married and the she had to elope. The rest lived in this old dark house with a carriage house on Logan Ave until the last moved out in 2000, a run of 87 years. Her name is Elizabeth, fondly called Teddy, and she was the last of that generation dying in 2001. I had gotten fairly close to her at the end as she lived very close, this is how I got all these great photos. The crayon photographs are amazing.
Let me also look at the Watson and McMillan and send you what I have. You may have it as I am just starting down that line.
I know I said it before but I do appreciate it. My mom and aunt are now past 80 and they are thrilled to learn some of their past, as am I. Take care and I'll get back to you in the next day or two.
Tom
PS Will it ever stop snowing?!
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Gail,
I found some information I wanted to send. These Williamsons are buried in Mt Pleasant Cemetery.
I am giving you the inscriptions on the stones -
WILLIAMSON
In Loving Memory of
Betsey Watson
Beloved Wife of
William Williamson
Born In Rothes, Scotland
March 7, 1876
Died October 20th, 1929
William Williamson
Born in Elgin, Scotland
February 27th, 1878
Died January 17th, 1953
"Gentle Jesus Be my Light"
** These are my great-grandparents and are not buried with the next set of Williamsons which are the children of Thomas Williamson and Rachael Watson. They are buried in another part of Mt Pleasant
-------------------------------------------
Williamson
Robert Isaac 1915-1978
Marion Mary 1907-1980
William Lloyd 1918-1983
Earl O. Burney 1916-1987
Ethel Rachel V. 1906-1991
Elizabeth Loretta 1911-2001
There is also the only child, a daughter, Joan Williamson, married name Davidson and two children that died in the early 1900s. Joan, her parents (Thomas Williamson and Rachael Watson) and these 2 small children are also buried in the same cemetery. I have been to where they are buried and need to go again in the spring. Also buried in this cemetery are George Watson and Margaret Lindsay. I will get that information and pass it along in the spring, if you don't have it.
Hope this helps. I have never figured out this Nellie Watson 1896 connection, will keep you posted.
Tom
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Hi,
sorry to but in again.
This is of no use to your Scottish research.
I also don't know what your sources are for the MI's you have.
I just wondered whether you could obtain more info on the burials, or perhaps even request someone local to take photographs on the following board?
Being new to the boards, you may not have come across the specific section relating to Canadian immigration / emigration.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,166.0.html
Dave
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Dave,
You never have to worry about buting in. I have gotten alot of great information and I appreciate you and everyone else on the board.
As I mentioned before I have found cousins in Scotland, Ireland, the US and here in Canada.
Thanks again for your help!
Tom
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Hi Tom
Found this among my paper collection.
A passenger list for George Watson and family (Ticket # 159). They sailed from Liverpool on 24 April 1887 on the S. S. Sardinian for Halifax, N.S. Also travelling with George was William Watson (ticket # 159a) and James Watson (ticket # 160) with their respective families - they were headed for Toronto.
You can view and save the original at: www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html
Click on Canadian Genealogy Centre - immigration and citizenship - passenger lists 1865 - 1935. From here you should be able to navigate to the "search" button. You want reel C-4513.
Perhaps you can find additional passenger lists for these families.
Happy searching,
Gail
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Gail,
I spoke to my cousin in New Brunswick (DTR of Margaret Joan WIlliamson) and her is some more information.
Margaret Joan Williamson B 25 July 1909 D March 25 1995 in Toronto
William Williamson (1878-1953) and Elizabeth (Betsey) Watson (1876-1929)
Ellen 1901-1994
Margeret 1904-1957
Mildred 1914-1986
Bessie 1918-2001 *** I have to check her legal name, as this was a family name.
Will keep you up to date as I get information. Starting to do some more McMillan and Watson research.
Tom
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Hi Tom and Gail
I am afraid I am butting in too but you said you didn't mind! ::)
Elsewhere on this site I have had the most fantastic help but I still have a few remaining loose ends.
One big query is what happened to a John and David Williamson after 1851? They were both on the Scottish 1851 census at Twynholm, Dumfries and Galloway aged approx 4 and 8. In 1855 their father John Williamson married my gtx2 grandmother so presumably their mother Margaret had died. Have you ever come across these names in your own research. I just have the feeling that they must have emigrated because I haven' t been able to find any evidence of them in Scotland after this period.
It's a long shot but they do say "nothing ventured nothing gained" so we will wait and see.
I did find some Williamsons on passenger lists but it just says Scotland as place of birth, nothing more specific. It's a difficult one this.
Your stories are fascinating. I am so pleased you have found each other and can exchange stories and photographs. Presumably one day you will meet in person too?
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I have looked up what I have on the Williamsons with those forenames. My Gr-Gr Grandfather, Thomas Williamson (1826-1886) was married twice. In his first marriage he did have a son, John Williamson. Unfortunately I am still researching this marriage for further information.
The other surname has not shown up yet but will keep you posted. Sorry I could not give you any more helpful information..
Tom
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Thanks for you reply.
My John Williamson had a father named John and a mother Helen McColville and all three came from the north of Ireland. I found a distant Williamson cousin on GenesReunited (third or fourth) and we exchanged historic photos and, gues what, one of my gt aunt Mary was exactly the same! We did laugh.
I have a written note somewhere about the Stewarts, McMillans and Watsons, albeit rather short. I will sort it out and send it to you. You will find it interesting.
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I wish you success in your quest and sorry I could not be of further help. I will be interested to hear the story you mentioned of some of my ancestors.
I have ordered some books on the Travellers of Scotland about the Williamsons, Watsons, etc.
Take care.
Tom
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Hi Tom
I see you are on line. Have you heard of the book "Galloway Travellers" which is a brief booklet containing some of Andrew McCormick's Tinkler Gypsy photographs? He mentions the Stewarts, the MacMillans, the Watsons and the Marshalls, from whom I am descended.
Judy
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Hello Tom,
I am a Williamson descendant. Aside from William and Thomas, additional children born to Thomas Williamson and Margaret Lindsay are:
George, Charles, Mary Ann, Robert and Jean. Most are buried in Toronto, either at St. John's Norway Cemetery or Mount Pleasant Cemetery.
Margaret Lindsay is the second wife of Thomas Williamson. His first wife and young daughter are also buried at Mt. Royal Cemetery, Montreal.
You are probably aware that William and Thomas married Watson sisters, Elizabeth and Rachel.
Hope this helps,
Gail
Ontario, Canada
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I am descended of Charles Williamson from Elgin he would be my Great Grandfather he married a Jane McNeil in 18 hundreds charles was a horse dealer and went or was put to Canada. Ev
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I am related to William Williamson from Morayshire , My gran was Lizzie Williamson PLEASE GET IN TOUCH Evelyn Williamson
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I am related to William Williamson from Morayshire , My gran was Lizzie Williamson PLEASE GET IN TOUCH Evelyn Williamson
What area of Morayshire? Garmouth possibly? I too have links to both those names.
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I show a William born 22 Feb 1878 in Elgin. He married Elizabeth Watson also born in Elgin.
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my grandfather was willie williamson. he married margaret lindsay and had a sister cathy and a brother james(jimmy) he also had other siblings who im not aware of there names. i am reall curious to know the williamson side of my family as up until recently i was the last male to b named williamson in my family in morayshire so it was up to me to carry on our family name. my grandfather had family who emigrated to canada. he was from either nairn,grantown or inverness! it is really hard for me to track down as even my mother(christine williamson) or my aunt(esther) dont really kniw. if you have any info on tges williamsons it would b much appreciated.
kindest regards
Ryan Williamson
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hi my name is ryan williamson. my grandfather was william williamson he married my grandmother margaret lindsay and had 3 children, Esther, William and christine(my mother) i dont know much about my family as they were travelling folk.he had family who emigrated to canada. he was from either nairn grantown or inverness originally. my granny tells me his mothers name was charlotte. I dont really know much else about them and i would really like to find out more as i am charged with carrying on the williamson surname.
best regards
ryan williamson
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Homes
I have a Williamson from the north of Ireland marrying a "McColville". Could it be McConnell?
We have Court neighbours in Birmingham and my husband was taught by a Mr. Court too!
Judy
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To TRChilds
I am new to roots chat and just learning how to use it. I am sure we are cousins although you probably don't remember me even though as they say "I danced at your wedding". I am your mother's brother Tom's daughter Ellen. I have been reading all of your posts on the Williamsons and you have certainly done a lot of work. It has given me a lot of info. Thanks.
Ellen
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Gail and Tom,
I believe I have information that relates to both of you regarding William Williamson, Mary Williamson (nee Stewart) and Thomas Williamson.
I just registered with RootsChat and not sure if this message will reach either of you but very much hoping so.
With appreciation,
Nelson