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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: MAINEYUSA on Thursday 08 January 09 11:38 GMT (UK)
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William is my 3rd g-grandfather. I only know he was born around 1807 in Kelton. I know there is supposed to be a Kelton in Kirks, a well as a village called Kelton in Dumfries. Now which one they belong to I am not sure. My William married Janet "Jane" Kerr. Janet was born in Dalton, Dumfries, and their daughter Agnes was born Abt 1827 in Kelton, Kirks. So now I am completely confused since finding that there is a place called Kelton in Dumfries. I am not so sure that maybe I picked up the Kirks by looking online to see what county Kelton was in.
Agnes married Thomas Tweedie b. 1818 in "Cairne" Dalton Parish, Dumfries. Think the Cairne was short for Pleacairne, the farm the family lived on. They had 10 children. Thomas immigrated to the US with all but one of his children shortly after Agnes died in 1881. I have his naturalization records. I am looking for more information on the McGowan and Kerr families. Does anyone know of this family?
Thanks
Brenda
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A search on scotlandspeople turns up a DC for Agnes mum in November of 1881 and Thomas was the informant for this too so he didn't sail for the US until after then. This gives you her parents names and the fact that she had survived hubbie William. A search for the DC for William McGowan turns up one in 1873 Troqueer age 83 that was married to Jane Kerr. If this is your William then perhaps he was born a bit before 1807???....not sure if this is the right one. The DC has parents names and a son Robert was the informant. Sorry but I've got no further data on either family.
Best wishes
Jean
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I have a copy of Agnes mothers death cert, it is William I am having the problem with. I have seen in some family trees online that William and Jane both may have been born in the 1790's, which is quite possible, I dont have anything definate on that. It sounds to me like the William in Troqueer is probably him. I will have to check SP for the cert and see what it says. Thanks for looking. Think I just needed a little extra confidence. The only child I have listed for them to this point is Agnes.
Brenda
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Just to answer your question about Kelton. There is only one parish called Kelton and it is in Kirkcudbrightshire. For some reason Scotland's People have it in Dumfriesshire which is wrong! This has been pointed out to them but nothing seems to have been done about it. Mary
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Just to answer your question about Kelton. There is only one parish called Kelton and it is in Kirkcudbrightshire. For some reason Scotland's People have it in Dumfriesshire which is wrong! This has been pointed out to them but nothing seems to have been done about it. Mary
There is a Kelton village near Glencaple, Dumfries and a Kelton near Castle Douglas, bound to cause confusion?
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Hi Brenda
With the information that Jean found and a possible death for William in Troqueer 1873, there is this census entry in 1871 which is likely to relate to that couple:
William McGowan 78, gardener, b. Dumfries, Dumfriesshire
Jane McGowan 67, b. Dalton, Dumfriesshire
Address: West Cottage, Maxwelltown, Troqueer
The 1861 census shows the following:
William McGowan 65, Gardner, b.Dumfries
Jane McGowan 54, b. Dalton
Edward McGowan 78, son, (likely age is mistranscribed!), stationer, b. Kelton, Kirkcudbright
Robert McGowan 15, son (probably the one showing on the DC that Jean found who reported the death), b. Kelton, Kirkcudbright
Address: Moat Cottage, Troqueer
Certainly looks promising. Agnes and husband Thomas Tweedie married (or banns were called) in Dalton. What occupation showed for her father William on her death cert.?
Monica
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Have you looked on the johnmcmillanfamilyhistory site? at the cemetery inscriptions. You,re Agnes McGowan,( wife of Thomas Tweedie) is there( died at Whitecroft, Dalton 2/2/1881) and Janet Kerr wife of William McGowan ( d 11/11/1881), Also Agnes Tweedie dau of Thomas Tweedie wife of William Campbell.
I also found Edward b to William Mcgowan and Janet Kerr in Kelton 28/3/1842.
AKC
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That birth year that you found AKC for Edward would then fit with the family's 1851 entry - all the children showing as born in Kelton:
William McGowan 52, agr. lab. , b. Dumfries
Jean McGowan 45, b. Torthorwald, Dumfries
James McGowan 19
Jean McGowan 12
Edward McGowan 9
Robert McGowan 7
Alexander Herr (Kerr?) 39, visitor, shopkeeper, b. Torthorwald, Dumfries
Address: Banks, Troqueer
We need to find Agnes at home with this family in the 1841 census to be more certain. Her marriage shows in January 1851, so she was already married by the time this census was taken.
Monica
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I think this entry is certainly one to check on the original image at SP. This is the closest I can see on the 1841 Census (not FreeCen which doesn't seem to include the 1841 Kelton entries):
William McGown 38, agr. lab.
Pear (Jean?) McGown 30
Agne P McGown 14
William McGown 12
James McGown 10
Mary McGown 8
Junscet (?spl) McGown 3
Address: South Queen Street, Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire
Monica
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Hi
Just a comment about the Keltons :)
There was a thread about this about 18 months ago (I'll go check and put up the link here). I think the one that is referred to here is Kelton Kirkcudbrightshire and the address that Monica has listed is in Castle Douglas (part of Kelton parish)
Click for Map (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/idmap.srf?x=276317&y=561942&z=110&sv=276317,561942&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=idmap.srf&searchp=ids.srf&lm=0)
Some of my relatives had property on King Street in the 1840s :)
Gadget
Added - here's part of the other thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,163821.msg767553.html#msg767553
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Ok,,,I found Williams DC, and it was the one in Troqueer. I guess I just need to learn how to use SP. Have wasted I don't know how many credits. I still cant find the one for Jane Kerr though. No matter how I search I am not finding her death in Nov 1881. Any suggestions?
Brenda
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Hi :)
There is a death reg on SP in 1881 for Jane McGowan, other name Kerr, aged 75, in Dalton, Dumfries
Yesterday I was involved in doing lookups on another thread. It might be related to your Kerrs:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,351930.0.html
Hope this helps.
Gadget
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I think the Janet you are referring to is our Janet Kerr b 1805 Dalton. Her parents are George Kerr and Mary Dickson. I have been trying to find the connection to William Mcgowan but so far no luck! Janet had as far as we know 5 siblings: Robert Henderson Kerr b 1801 Whitecroft, Dalton, Francis Henderson Kerr b 1809 Pyhills, Annie b 1814, Anna b 1807 and possibly David?b 1808( a father George Kerr is mentioned on his birth cert but no mother) and Mary b 1811
AKC
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Hi akc :)
Are you also part of the csc family:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,351930.0.html
It seems that there are quite a few people looking for the same family at the moment.
Gadget
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From the death cert. , the Jane Kerr, wife of William McGowan, was the daughter of James Kerr, a weaver, and Janet, m.s. Nielson.
So not the same Jane/Janet that AKC refers to
Gadget
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I see that Jane/Janet is down as being b. Torthowald on the 1851 that Monica found.
There is an interesting baptism entry on SP that might be her given the variations in the spelling of the surname:
3 April 1806 Torthowald - Janet d/o James Kirkir, workman near Durm/Dourn ? Baptised 'next thursday apr 3rd by Mr Dickson'
Quite a few children showing to James Kerr and Janet Nielson on the IGI
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget! I will check the IGI and see what they have. I did another search for the death record of Janet Kerr, and I found it finally. Seems if you do a specialized search instead of just the "all discticts" search, more shows up. Helps a lot to know where to look.
Thanks for your help
Brenda
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If anyone wants to see a pic of Agnes (McGowan) Tweedie, I posted one for fixing on the boards. They have done a wonderful job with it. Here is the link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,351709.0.html
I have several other pics from that time frame too. I will be posting them on the boards so if someone else is researching these people, they can have a copy of it.
Thankyou all for your help. Words cannot express the gratitude I feel.
Brenda
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Just to answer your question about Kelton. There is only one parish called Kelton and it is in Kirkcudbrightshire. For some reason Scotland's People have it in Dumfriesshire which is wrong! This has been pointed out to them but nothing seems to have been done about it. Mary
Thought I'd add my tuppence worth :) Kelton was, for whatever reason the registration/census people saw fit to do this, included in Dumfriesshire when Civil Registration took over from Parish records in 1855. My source? Some documents on the Dumfriess Council website (before the URL changed) that don't discuss this, but clearly show that this was when the change took place. The "turf wars" continue, but I have found it easier just to search in both counties when I am looking for somebody in Kelton....starting with Dumfriesshire. Geographically and for all other purposes, I understand that Kelton "belongs" to Kirkcudbrightshire ....Not so Callywoods :D
Scatterling
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Georgraphically, the parish of Kelton (which includes Castle Douglas) is definitely in Kirkcudbrightshire - or the Stewartry.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/KKD/Kelton/index.html
The village of Kelton is in Dumfriesshire. For some unknown reason, the SP site has it under Dumfriesshire.
The whole area is now Dumfries and Galloway for Admin purposes.
Gadget
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Agnes married Thomas Tweedie b. 1818 in "Cairne" Dalton Parish, Dumfries.
Thanks
Brenda
Brenda,
I have just posted a note on the Kelton controversy - which was the least complicated part! I am interested in the McGowan/Tweedie connection because I have Tweedies from Totherwald (DFS) and later Rerrick, in my McMurray tree. I will look through my stuff and see if I have Agnes and Thomas Tweedie, although I may not have followed all the Tweedie lines. If I find anything I will post again. Serendipitously my married name is McGowen, with an "e" ..... they came to the USA in 1755 S. Carolina! My McMurray tree (with Tweedies) is on ancestry.com. If you'd like an invitation, let me know.
Megan
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By the way Scatza - I've posted quite a bit on you McLeans today. In case you hadn't seen it.
Gadget
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I saw it, saw that you were on-line too, and was busy tring to catch up with the latest. I recently lost my husband to leukemia so have not be around for a while :-[
Scatza
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I have lots of Tweedie information too. My Aunt, who researched for many years before I started, handed down her genealogy to me. She wanted it to go to someone who would continue the work. I also have a copy of the Michael Forbes Tweedie genealogy published in 1902. My Agnes (McGosan) Tweedie died in Feb 1881 at Whitecroft. This is the farm they lived on in Dumfries, and I have several pics of this farm. Her husband and all but one of the children immigrated to the US in 1895. I have the naturalization papers of their son John. John would be my great grandfather. When coming to the US, they settled around the Boston Massachusetts area, living in Somerville, Franklin, and Medway. Thomas died in 1891, so we don't believe he was here long enough to be naturalized, or at least we haven't found the paperwork to date. My Tweedies came from the Drummelzier area, as for many generations they lived and died at the Drummelzier Castle. If I can do lookups for you in any of this genealogy I have, let me know. I would be glad to do this.
Brenda
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Thank you Brenda :) I have contacted you personally.
Scatza
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I think I am finally getting somewhere. I still have not found the birth record for Agnes McGowan, who was supposed to have been born around 1827 in Kelton. Her parents were William McGowan b. abt 1790 Kelton, I have his death record and he is listed on both his daughter's death record and that of his wife Janet Kerr who was born abt 1807 Dalton, Dumfries. William's death cert lists his parents as William McGowan b. 1755 Caerlaverock, and Mary Hannah. I found a marriage cert for them, they married 3 Jan 1784 in Dumfries. I found birth records for Agnes brothers: Robert and Edward, both born Kelton. I don't know why there would not be a record of birth for Agnes. I think maybe the date of 1827 is wrong. I did find a birth record for an Agnes McGowan 1827, but it lists her parents as William McGowan and Jane Hairstain. Don't think this is her. It seems her brothers were born 1842 and 1844. Agnes married Thomas Tweedie in 1851 Dalton Parish, so if she were not born 1827, then she married very young. I also found that Janet Kerr's parents were James Kerr and Janet Neilson, both supposed to be born in Dumfries. I will get there one day. Thankyou all for your help. I really appreciate it.
Brenda
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I have found a record of a James Kerr, born 1850 in Troqueer, Kirkcudbright. He is on the 1851 Scotland census and 1861 England census living with the Laurie family. It says he is the grandson of a James Laurie. James also had a daughter called Janet.
In 1841 this family lived at High Arkland Farm House, Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire.
in 1851(when James Kerr is first listed) they are living in Dumfries.
In 1861 they are living in Toxteth Park, Liverpool
Is this any relation?
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Could be related somehow, but not sure. My James was born 1781 in dumfries. He is in the 1841 census there, and he died in 1846. He was married to Janet Neilson. The only place I have found him so far is in the 1841. So many families then had all their children named the same thing. I do know that William McGowan was born in Kirks, so anything could be right. William and Jane (daughter of James) were living in Troqueer in the 1861 census. Could be that the census of 1841 is wrong as listing James birth place (we all know THAT never happens!!). Thanks for the reply. I will have to check that out a little further, maybe he is related to my family somehow.
Brenda
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In line with others I can add 'tuppence' worth. On a document, 'Particulars of the estate of Kelton belonging to Gibson Scott esq.', undated but the watermark is 1824, William McGowan is listed as tenant of Kelton mains. The document, larger than A3 gives the acreage of Kelton mains as over 140 acres . It lists also respective arable, meadow and wood acreage. Make of it what you will - help or hindrance?
My1813 reference is to the date of county survey.
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Hi I know this is still a bit blurred so I will try to clarify, Kelton is a small village on the outskirts of Dumfries, there is also a Parish of Kelton which incorporates a village known as Kelton hill or Rhonehouse which is in Kirkcudbright not far from Castle Douglas . If the birth records you are looking at state the Parish of Kelton then I imagine they mean Kelton hill also known as Rhonehouse in Kkd
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KELTON
A village on the east bank of the River Nith on the B725 - halfway between Kingholm Quay and Glencaple Quay in Dumfries-shire.
Until 1974, a parish in Kirkcudbright-shire including the villages of Rhonehouse, Gelston, and the Town of Castle Douglas.