RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: jwyrick on Wednesday 14 January 09 17:46 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for Sinclair relatives supposedly buried in the St. Niniancs Churchyard.
John Sinclair born about 1796 died 12-23-1856 shows buried in St. Ninians churchyard.
his wife Margaret (?bennett) born about 1796 died between 1841 and 1851
their daughter Ann born 5-5-1824 died ?after 1841
any help or guidance greatly appreciated!
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Have locked other thread with this request to avoid duplication and confusion. Meanwhile, perhaps you could let us know where in Scotland St. Ninian's is so we might find information or suggest where you could search next.
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Thanks for the help - I am new to this site and am learning to navigate it. St Ninians is near Bannockburn in the county of Stirling.
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Old St Ninians churchyard is locked up at the moment due to a fit of paranoidic hysteria in case a headstone should fall on someone.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/StNiniansSteepleR.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/ChurchCemeteryR.jpg)
Your best bet would be an email to the very helpful folks at Stirling Council Cemeteries Department.
Cheers.
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Thanks for the pictures and information. I will send an email to the Stirling Council.
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According to the pre-1855 MI Book for East Stirlingshire, there are 2 stones in the Churchyard to Sinclairs but not the ones you've mentioned.
Listed is:
1.
1851
William Sinclair and Agnes Christie (most likely his wife)
and next to the above
2.
W S A C (probably William Sinclair and Agnes Christie)
There are a further 26 stones similar to No. 2 (above) which only bear sets of initials (The surname could be anything beginning with S), but none of them have either I S or J S and an M ?.
(The letters I is quite often used instead of J).
This doesn't mean they aren't buried there, simply that there isn't a stone.
There are however, 2 Sinclair stones in Holy Rude Churchyard, they are:
1.
John Sinclair died August 1864
Mary Robertson his wife died February 1865
Son John died 9.11.1920 age 66
His wife Helen Miller died 19.6.1940 age 80
Thomas Robertson Sinclair, M.B., Ch.B., died 10.4.1929 age 40
John Sinclair died 3.3.1960
His wife Agnes Paxton died 1.3.1961
William Miller died 6.2.1896 age 57
2.
Duncan Sinclair died b. 9.7.1806, d. 15.2.1883
Flora Duncan Sinclair b. 16.9.1846, d. 17.2.1847
Janet Brown Sinclair b. 18.11.1818, d. 8.1.1876
John Sinclair b. 23.9.1849, d 27.1.1874
Janet Sinclair b. 25.6.1856, d. 26.6.1874
Ann Boyd Sinclair b. 10.08.1853, d. 10.3.1876
Charlotte Campbell b.4.9.1842, d. 25.12.1907
Annie Campbell Jack b. 3.5.1878, d. 3.5.1936
James Simpson Jack b. 31.12.1877, d. 14.2.1950
Erected by grandson John McIntosh Sinclair aged 71 in 1942
These MI's are all abbreviated so in the case of No. 2 (above) it's very difficult to figure out the relationships between the Sinclairs, Jacks and Campbells
Anne.
P.S. I also checked St. Ninian's New Churchyard (which surrounds the Church) but there's no Sinclair stones listed there either.
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Thanks for the info. I do have John Sinclairs death record which shows he died 12-23-1861 and that he is buried in the St. Ninians Churchyard. You are probably right that there just isn't a grave marker ( I have run into this before). I will look into the other Sinclairs info that you have provided, maybe they are related. Thanks so much for your help!
Joanne
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oops! the death date for John Sinclair in the previous post should be 12-23-1856. Thanks
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Hi
I think the St Ninians old cemetery burial register is at the Stirling Achives. I'm sure thats were I looked up the details of my gggrandfather who died in 1855. I was told a few years ago that it was the watchtower that was the danger but if I contacted the council I may be able to be escorted to the grave. I was thinking of sneaking in through an unlocked gate (and pretending that I was a lost Australian) but council workman were sitting in a truck just outside it eating lunch.
Andy
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LOL Andy!! ;D ;D
If you contact Viewforth, they'll give you the key to get in.
Just between us friends . . . . . . . it's quite easy to climb over the dyke at the back of the Churchyard (Fergie's 2nd picture) at it's lowest part.
There's a wee metal fence on top of the wall but all that does it make it easier to haul yourself up!
The front gate (in Fergie's 1st picture beside the red car) is never open - but just now and again, the other one is left open - probably when the workies have been doing maintenance of some sort and can't be bothered locking up when they've done. Mind you, what maintenance they do is beyond me - during the summer the grass is about three feet high. Maybe, as you said, they use it as a picnic area - quite scenic!
Anne
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Apologies for butting into this thread but if Anne is looking in I wonder if she would be good enough to search the MI's and advise if any of the stones bear the names Eadie, Pollock or Dick.
I too have been outside the churchyard but did not fancy the climb over the dyke into the long grass. Thank you for advising of the shortcut. Good photos.
RobertD
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Here I am Robert!
The details from the pre-1855 are abbreviated so sometimes it's duifficult to figure out who's who, but the following are the stones which are listed:
DICK
1.
1828 Robert Dick (Flesher in St. Ninians) died 24.05.1809 age 60
2.
John Dick (in) Craigengelt?
3.
Andrew Richardson (Heritor) & Feuar, Stirling
His wife Marion Dick died at Craigs, Stirling 02.09.1850 aged 56?
EADIE
1. (On Wall)
1732 J P J C
William Paterson died 31.05.1877 age 80
His wife Mary Eadie died 29.11.1881 age 83
James Paterson died 27.12.1920 age 66
His wife Mary Chalmers died 08.11.1928
Children
Lizzie died 29.05.1893 age 12 years 8 months
Mary died 28.09.1893 age 8
POLLOCK
1.
David Pollock & Grace Hutton
Their son David died 06.05.1843 age 9
Their children
Grace died 12.05.1838
William died 18.05.1843
David died 19.05.1852
Marion died 05.09.1856
2.
1796 William Ker
Isobel Pollock
The above stones are (were) in the Old Churchyard so unfortunately, a wee dyke will have to be climbed - but now that you know 'the shortcut' . . . . . . . ;)
There are/were no stones for any of these names in the New Churchyard.
Anne
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Anne
Thank you very much for the quick response and the information within. This will give me something to ponder over.
Cheers
Robert
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Anne (or anyone else out there),
You've possibly already looked for me but I have no record of it.
Are there any MI's for Forrest in St Ninians?
I've got details of Forrests being christened and married in St Ninians from the 17th century to much more recently.
Thanks,
Dave
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Hi Dave - do you want to follow the male Forrests or do you want them all - the female Forrests (& spouses) too?
Until I hear back from you, the following is the only male Forrest in St. Ninian's Old:
(Double grey granite stone)
Archibald Forrest in Charterhall
Wife Helen Smith died 18.11.1860 age 78
Son William born 13.3.1801, died 23.6.1884
Daughter Jean born 28.10.1803, died 18.6.1838 (wife of James Ronald, son James died in infancy)
James E. R., Civil Engineer & Architect died 11.4.1924
Wife Robina Martin died 7.8.1928
Anne.
P.S. There are no Forrests listed at all in the New Churchyard.
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That's great Anne,
I have Archibald and Helen on my records plus 4 children.
Until now, I had only guessed at Helen's birth date.
It's great to get the dates of death.
As for the female lines, I'm really only taking that as far as getting husband's name.
Thank you once again for all the help you've given me.
Dave
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Anne. Where are you getting the graves info from.
Is it from a web site.
Or perhaps a book.
Or shouldn't I have asked. :-X
I am about to begin a search for 'Stevenson' burials in St Ninians.
Cheers.
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Could you quickly check Helen's date of birth / death please.
That would make her born 1791.
She would be too young to have those kids and she was married 2 March 1800.
More likely she was 88 at death. Possibly a transcription error.
Dave
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Dave
Sorry - mistake on my part.
Helen's date of death is listed as 1869, not 1869 which I typed in earlier post. (I've now amended it to 1860)
Does this make a difference?
I'll post the Forrest ladies after I have my tea! ;D
Fergie
Don't ever feel you can't or shouldn't ask - you ask all you want!! It's the only way we find things out.
I have copies of the 2 Books - Pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions (by Mitchell & Mitchell) for both East and West Stirlingshire. These contain the inscriptions from all the stones they found when they surveyed all the older Graveyards/Churchyards in the late 60's/early 70's. Not 100% reliable but a fantastic resource to have.
There's loads of Stevensons/Stivensons listed + a wee sketch where all the stones are within the Churchyard. Let me know if you want a note of them. It would be better if you sent me your personal e-mail by PM. That way, I could send you stuff direct
Anne
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Some of your info is post 1855 and that is why I was asking.
I would be grateful for any info on Stevenson's there.
(And it will save me having to climb the wall) :)
PM is being sent with email address.
Cheers
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Dave
Sorry - mistake on my part.
Helen's date of death is listed as 1869, not 1869 which I typed in earlier post. (I've now amended it to 1860)
Does this make a difference?
I'll post the Forrest ladies after I have my tea! ;D
Anne
That makes more sense. Thanks. And the ladies would be brilliant. My wee project is fairly coming along. I've added details of about 250 Stirlingshire Forrests over the last few days.
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Forrest Ladies: (& Spouses)
1.
1808 John Rankin M. Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)
2.
1813
John Jenkins Marjory Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)
3.
1815
Robert Jenkins Margret Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)
4.
Next North Wall
1858
Alex. Johnston, surgeon, Stirling died 25.9.1857 age 57
Wife Marion Forrest died 24.5.1886 age 87
Eldest son William, M.D. died at Stirling, born 10.7.1828, died 7.4.1901
His wife Georgina C.B. Blair born 29.12.1841, died 20.12.1913
5.
1826
Robert Crawford Isabell Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)
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Thank you Anne.
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Thank you for the list of names and the chart Anne.
Looking at the chart though I wondered if the rest of the burial ground is logged anywhere.
Looking at my second photo earlier on this thread, you will see a square grassed area centre left between the main road and the cemetery wall.
I don't think there are any stones or markers in there but I could be wrong. This piece of ground was used for the burial of non-Christians. I was first learned this when, as a lad, I watched the funeral of a man by the name of Peter Murray and told that he was being interred there because he was a communist. That would have been about the late forties or early fifties.
I have, over the years seen signs of other burials there but like most people, when I was younger I wasn't interested in things like that.
This being a Church of Scotland cemetery, I wonder if the ban not only applied to non Christians but included non Protestants. ??
Cheers.
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Partly right and partly wrong I think.
To my knowledge, there was always part of Churchyards put aside for 'Paupers Graves' where 'the parish' would bury the deceased rather than the family (sort of thing). This is now called 'Common Ground' and all (or nearly all) cemeteries still have this area or areas for folk who can't afford a private lair/plot, so this might be the case in St. Ninians. The burials are still recorded by the Cemetery Records Offices, so they know exactly who's where, but it is not permitted to erect stones. I would imagine it was the same before the cemeteries existed, i.e. the churchyards.
In my own personal experience, I was doing some research for a lady who's sister had died in infancy and was buried in Logie Churchyard Extension. Although this baby had been buried in 'Common Ground', I got a map from Viewforth which showed all the lairs in that particular piece of ground and I was able to pinpoint exactly where the grave was for her.
As for other denominations - I don't know. I believe that Roman Catholic burials have to be in 'consecrated ground' but I don't know how that would work on a Common Ground Section as the family wouldn't have any say as to where exactly the grave would be.
Also worth bearing in mind is the fact that 'Church of Scotland' now is quite a recent term. I don't have any knowledge about dates when all the different churches 'sorted themselves out' but I don't doubt over the years the rules and regulations differed.
Anne
P.S. You're very welcome to the info.
P.P.S. Were you standing in the middle of the road to take that second picture? ;)
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Thanks once more Anne.
The gentleman I mentioned as being buried there was in no way a pauper. He had a thriving grocery/general store in the village of St Ninians that was carried on my his wife for many years after his death.
I had more or less forgotten about this section of 'common ground' until I saw your chart.
I was standing on the pavement when I took the photo so as to get as far away from the subject as possible. In the end though, I couldn't get far enough away and the image is made up of two merged shots.
Cheers.
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I was in St Ninians today so decided to nip round to the old cemetery. The gate was locked so I thought I would tackle a quick jump over the wall.
After my third attempt, I realised that I was not only to old for this scrambling and clambering carry on but that I was certainly the wrong weight and definitely the wrong shape. I did finally manage it thanks to a wedge shaped joint where two walls meet.
The first thing that struck me was the scale of the vandalism that has been carried out over the years and if any of the perpetrators who would now be adults, ever looked over the wall and felt proud of there handiwork. This cemetery desperately needs some TLC and restoration work done as a matter of urgency.
You were right Anne about there being no grave markers in the ‘Paupers’ section.
You were also correct in suggesting a fore rather than an after noon visit as the sun was right in my eyes because all the stones face northwesterly, facing the church.
Sad sights indeed.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/0462-Towards-the-West-WR.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/0463-Looking-Southish-WR.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/0461-Steeple-W.jpg)
The restored Steeple.
Cheers.
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I think the old saying - 'Where there's a will, there's a way', sums up your wee adventure Fergie!
I share your feelings on the vandalism etc. Unfortunately, the 'cooncil' workers are sometimes just as bad as I've seen them skelp around on those sit-on lawnmower type of things (not specifically in St. Ninians) and bits of stones ping all over the place when they clatter into them.
You've put me in the notion of giving St. Ninians another wee visit ;D
Anne
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You've put me in the notion of giving St. Ninians another wee visit ;D
Anne
Good luck to you then.
You're obviously a lot younger and sprightlier than I am. :) :D ;D
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Thanks for posting these photos Fergie (and the previous ones).
I enjoy looking at photos like this.
Ages ago, I toyed with the idea of setting up a thread purely to accommodate photos of cemeteries - I even set up a poll and it was generally thought to be a reasonable idea.
I got distracted and I never got around to it.
There always seems to be something else to research.
To your point, sadly, vandalism and lack of attention in churchyards seems to be the name of the game. Having said that, I've seen a lot in worse state than St Ninians if your photos are indicative of the overall condition of the site.
Congratulations on your 'panoramic' photo. It's like the back of my head - you can only see the join if you look closely. ;D
Dave
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Hi all, I am extremely as of 5 mins ago, new to this website, and have a glimpse of hope, I'm wondering with anyone with indexes of St Ninians cemetary have any listings for John Stewart Wife Janet Thomson, they married in 1807 St Ninians, but other than their names marriage and children we know nothing! Fingers crossed!! Am desperate for something even an age of Headstone to give us a rough birth year, this is my husbands direct line, and would love to follow it for him
Thanks Amy Stewart
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Hello Amy,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Rootschat! :)
I looked through the pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions for St. Ninians but couldn'd find a match for John Stewart and Janet Thomson.
Male Stewarts listed are:
1.
W. Stewart 1848
2.
Andrew Stewart died 4th April 1863 aged 64
His wife Margaret Hodge died 6th May 1892
Son John died 26th February 1916 aged 73
His wife Janet Cunningham died 17th November 1934
Their son William died 2nd September 1902 aged 17
Thier son James died 23rd April 1917 aged 33
3.
John Stewart & wife Helen Jaffray (1829)
Do any of the above fit in to be your couple's children?
Anne
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Can anyone tell me if they have any Tod/Todd MI in St Ninians Cemetery
The photos are great
Thanks kateNZ :)
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Hi Kate,
Don't know whether this will be any good . . . . .
(Grey granite stone)
Cecelia Frances Forrester Tod died at Newhouse, Stirling on 13th June 1891 age 35 wife of Alexander Galbraith
It's the only Tod(d) MI listed.
Anne
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Thanks for that Anne
Cheers kateNZ :)
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Hello again Anne, thanks very much for the stewart stuff! Unfortunately none of them fit my lot! Are there anymore stewarts in it? I can give you some more names if you like!! You do a wonderful thing for people like us in NZ that dont have the resources!
Thanks Amy
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Was also wondering if anyone can help me out, I have a place called Storegate, in old kilpatrick, down on a few census sheets, but I cannot find this place anywhere! Any ideas? I think it was felshers land/lane aswell
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Hi Amy,
I'd need to go and have another look. From memory there were female Stewarts also listed but their surnames would obviously change and all descendants from then onwards wouldn't be Stewarts.
If there's specific families, why not post details anyway. If they don't turn up in St. Ninians - who's to say they don't turn up somewhere else?
Your query about 'Storegate' - your best plan would be to add a post on the Dunbartonshire Boards - there's more chance someone might be able to help who has in interest in that area.
Anne
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Hi Anne
Have just been roundthe scotland places of interest and listed my family thanks for all the help. fingers crossed!!
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Hello all,
I am new to rootschat and extremely interested in St ninians churchyard - loved the photos though shame about the state of things. My Lauder line disappears into st ninians. I have a theory that my line goes to William Lauder and Margaret Wilsone via their son john b july 4th 1659 d July 29 1743 who married Janet Row. I am guessing this date of death From the IGi came from an MI. John had a son Robert and a grandson Robert, then I am getting to firmer territory with John born 1781 and died 1844. Johns siblings Robert and Susan are on the 1841 census for St Ninians but then the name vanishes form the parish as many emigrate to the states and others to Glasgow.
May I ask if any Lauders are on Mis for St Ninians especially with these christian names or from Throsk. I would love to try and put flesh on my theories or equally knock them out so i can search elsewhere.
Thank you so much
Mikel
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Hi, Greetings from Australia! I too, have just found these helpful letters about St Ninian's. If someone has the records or is going over the fence in the near future (!!), can they tell me if there are records for Lucy and William Street, please? Lucy died in Bannock burn in 1868 and William in 1874.
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Hi Mike and Marg,
Welcome to Rootschat!!
Unfortunately none of the names either of you are looking for are mentioned on any MI's in St. Nininan's, but as previously mentioned, that doesn't mean that they're not buried there - just no stones.
Sorry!
Anne
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Thank you Anne,
I bet they are there but stones cost money and I doubt they could afford that. Mort cloths may hold some answers then perhaps. I really appreciate your time and effort.
Mike
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Thanks, Anne, for the prompt reply. I am not surprised but thought it was worth asking the question. William Street only worked in a Woollen Mill but did leave a will so thought there might have been something.
Marg
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Hi,
Could anyone possibly see if there is a James Mitchell recorded at St Ninians. I know he married their in 1794 and died between 1841(when at Dunmore Moss) & 1861 when his wife indicates she is a widow.
Many thanks
Mitch
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Hello Mitch,
Listed in the pre-1855 Book:
Flat Stone
James Mitchell & Elizabeth Read (or Rae) - no other details
What was your James' wife's name?
Anne
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Thanks Anne,
Not mine, James Mitchell was married firstly to Beatrix Watson (buried at Airth 1811) & secondly to Isabella Taylor (married at Airth 1815, she dies their 1869).
I just wondered if James `returned home` to be buried with the first marriage being at St Ninians.
Other than Beatrixs burial the other Mitchell burials at Airth appear to be residents of Kersie rather than Dunmore.
Thanks for your time
Mitch
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Hello All,
I have just stumbled on this thread and was amazed and delighted to see photo's of St Ninian's as I've been wanting to make a trip there for sometime to do some research (I live and work in Qatar, Middle East). Some of the postings also gave me a good chuckle. My wife and I have been researching family history for awhile and for my male line appears to go back to St. Ninian's and an Alexander MacLachlan and his wife Elizabeth Mitchell who married 19 Nov 1812 (both born around 1791). I believe Alexander was a nail smith and had a son John MacLauchlan born 1820 Pirnhall, Sterlingshire but seems to have migrated to Govan, Glasgow. Can anybody tell me if Alexander and/or Elizabeth are buried in St. Ninian's and any advise on who to contact for assistance in looking at local records i.e. those not online. Thanks and regards to you all - not least for the chuckles. Alan.
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Mach 1.... Don't know if this will work or not but I have put some St Ninians photos onto a free web site. I'm trying to find a free web site where I can display two photos side by side, a then and now sort of thing.
http://www.freewebs.com/fergie38/apps/photos/
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Hi Mach 1,
Welcome to Rootschat!
No sign of your ancestors in the pre-1855 MI Book - no MacLachlans (or variants) at all, but these are only MI's, not actual burials.
Anne
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Hi
Any chance of someone looking up Clow in St Ninians. they originated from Perth and ended up in St Ninians.
Thanks jac2
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Anne,
Many many thanks for taking the time and trouble to do a check for me.
Disappointing it didn't turn up any new leads but the search will go on.
Have a wonderful day. ;D
Regards,
Alan.
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Alan - my pleasure!
jac2 - no Clows (or variants) either - sorry!
Anne
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Hi Anne
thankyou for checking
jac2
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Anne, please could you check for Dun /Dunn in St ninians.
thanks in advance, Diddy
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Only one wee solitary Dun(n) in the whole Churchyard......
It's described as:
Square stone
1850 JOHN DUNN MARGARET FERGUSON
They'll have been husband and wife - the wife 99% of the time always listed by her maiden name.
Anne
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thanks Ann. will check through my file. may be able to see which john dun by the Dun family site. in case other Rcs might find this helpful it is:
http://www.dun.org.uk/
Diddy
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There was a coal merchant called 'Dun' who lived in the 'Auld Toon' of St Ninians in the 1940s
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thanks fergie - my Duns are way back in the 1700's though. joined with the Erskines in early 1800.
Diddy
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Hi Fergie
Nice pictures! my Mum lives under the shadow of the Steeple and that Bonnie clock rarely works for any length of time, it has been a problem for ages
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Yes , great photos.
I am searching also for family burial here.
It started with helping my cousin search for his father's grave.
Arthur John Robin ( 1915 - 1953).
My cousin came across a family name here in St Ninian's old churchyard.
Catherine Robin (1871-1940ish) could possibily be our Great Grand Aunt.
We also have a several James.
Catherine Robin)
James ... ) no dates probably a very weathered head stone
Alexander Bald ... ) as noted on the memento-mori.co.uk site list
Great reading this site. Good luck to you all in your research!
Karola
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Hello all with an interest in St Ninians - I am new to the site as of this morning and have posted on the Stirlingshire board.
I am searching my paternal family which as been extremely elusive, seems my grandmother took a lot to the grave with her, conveniently my dad and aunt don't remember an awful lot (I have a feeling I'm not just going to find one skeleton in our family closet) - well, nothing at all apparently. I have been speaking with one of my dad's young brothers who has cast a lot of light in terms of aunts/uncles.
I have the following info:
Margaret Provan Penman (my grandmother) b1916
Jeanie Hunter Penman b1910
Mary Robertson Penman b1929
They are all listed as being born in St Ninians. I have found my grandmothers birth record and ordered her birth certificate but won't be here for around 3 weeks and I'm keen to get going.
My grandmother had several children, my dad the eldest was born in Oxford during the war (Riskin College at Oxford University), then there is Jean who was born in Newington. My grandmother then 'married' Edwin Waller in 1957 in Morningside, Edinburgh. I do know that this was not legitimate as he was already married. Their children are Edwin (Eddie) and Patrick also born in Newington. There was then Alice Ruth, born in Falkirk and died at 4m of age. Finally there is Ann Marie Grant Young Waller, born in St Andrew, Edinburgh. Their youngest child, Kevin, was born in Bradford, Yorkshire.
I have looked at the 1901 census for St Ninians and can only find one listing for Penman as follows:
Isabella (40), James (39), Hugh (17), David (15), Mary (13), Bell (Isabella?) (9) and James (6). It appears to me that the parents on this census are too old to be my g-grandparents but possibly one of their children.
I also noticed a death lising for Bertie Penman in St Ninians who could also be a relative. The only final piece of info I have is that my g-grandfather supposedly served in Black Watch at Edinburgh Castle.
Can anyone help with this? Maybe if anyone is able to visit the parish church and look at birth records for me for either my grandmother or her sisters would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Michelle
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Hello Michelle and welcome to the board.
I'm afraid I can't help with your enquiries although someone else might, but having read your posting in would seem that what you really nead is a visit to the General Records Office in Edinburgh.
Cheers.
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Thanks for this - what an eventful day I had with this yesterday (there's a lot to be said for being off sick with flu lol).
I managed to find a death record on scotlands people for a brother my gran had called Andrew (never knew about him before). Anyway, as it turns out the father is Peter Penman, b 1882. When Andrew died in 1915, Peter was listed as a coal miner and it also mentions the Highland Cyclist Batallion. We found a death record also for Peter, it lists him as missing in action, presumed dead in 1918 in France. My uncle has also found details of WWI monument in Cowie which lists him - this seems to tie in perfectly as it mentions Black Watch which I have been told he served in.
Can anyone shed any more light?
Michelle
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The oganising and research of the siting and building of the Cowie War Memorial was carried out be a kinsman of mine, Mr. William Stevenson.
One of the things William did was to ask me to film and make up a DVD of the ceremonies on its dedication day on 14th September 2006.
I supplied them with lots of copies and still have the master. I can send you a disc if you wish.
There was also a booklet produced that among other things, listed all the names on the memorial. I have a copy that I have tucked safely away somewhere but I can't (at this precise moment) remember where.
I took this photo just a couple of days after the dedication.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/CowieWarmemorial.jpg)
Cheers.
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Until Fergie can find his 'safe place', you can see Cowie's Memorial here: (Scottish War Memorial Project)
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=896&highlight=cowie&mforum=warmemscot
Peter Penman is indeed listed - Black Watch.
Anne
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Hi,
My uncle sent me this link after he came across this but I couldn't access it but he did tell me that there was another monument which tied in. What does the inscription say in the first two columns next to his name?
I would love to see the DVD and of course, if you come across the other info, I would be greatful. If you email me directly at (*) I will provide you with further details.
Thanks again
Michelle
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Michelle...You have PM.
Cheers.
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For anyone who's interested there is a 'Stirling Observer People Index covering the names of folk named in the Stirling Observer Annual
The names for 1911 to 1939 are here at http://www.stirling.gov.uk/observer_annual_people_index_1911-39.xls
The names for 1940 to 1969 are here at http://www.stirling.gov.uk/observer_annual_people_index_1940-69.xls
They can be downloaded by anyone who wants them. If anyting is seen that is of interest then. armed with the year and page number, it is just a trip to the Stirling archives to read the full article.
(Michelle...There are Penman's in it)
Cheers.
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These are excellent, thanks. I think I can already see a connection from the first document.
Michelle
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Hello!! I just came across this thread today and wondered if you could possibly tell me if there are any entries for the name of Keir in the St Ninian Churchyard records?
Kate
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Hi Hotlips Kate!
Welcome to Rootschat. :)
According to the Mitchell's pre-1855 MI Book for St. Ninians Old Churchyard (East Stirlingshire), there are/were 2 Keir stones when their survey was carried out 1960's/early 1970's.
1. 1816 James Keir & Mary Mouat
2. 1830 Andrew Keir & Mary McGregor
And in St. Ninian's New Churchyard .....
1. (Flat Stone) David Keir 1814
.....? Keir died 1st February .....?
Anne
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:) Hi Anne, thank you so much for doing the look up for me, its much appreciated. Im not sure of the first of the names but Andrew Keir and Mary McGregor are definately my 3 x gt grandparents, looks like im going to have a wee trip to St Ninians, and hope the stones are still there. I actually dont live that far from there so when I do go Im willing to have a look for anyone else. and will take photos if possible.
Kate :) :)
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Kate.. If you do visit St Ninians cemetery without first contacting the Stirling Cemeteries dept, then you might have to climb the wall.
Don't worry about it though, just check through the forum for (I'm sure it was Anne who gave out) some expert advice on 'Cemetery Wall Climbing In St Ninians'..... ;D
Cheers.
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;D ;D Fergie there aint NO chance of me climbing over walls not even wee ones. im too fat and too old.
Kate
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Guilty as charged!! : 8)
It's quite good fun actually Kate - you just have to think outside the box - or, to put it another way - where there's a will, there's a way!!
I 'll have a look for the other thread which explans the 'How to' and you can decide for yourself.
Anne
P.S. It's only a wee wall and a wee fence!! ;D
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Silly me!
It's at the beginning of this thread!!
Anne
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Ok Anne!! I believe you!! but if I get my drawers hooked on the fence........ ;D ;D
Kate
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;D ;D ;D
Reinforced knicker elastic then?? LOL!!
I had a wee look here: http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/72.pdf (Page 27, Nos. 1415 & 1418)
Looks like the stone for Andrew Keir & Mary McGregor is still there and legible which is good news.
You could always pick up the key from Viewforth - I think they like a wee bit of notice but I'm sure they're well used to folk wanting in.
In the Mitchell's book I mentioned earlier, there's a wee sketch of the position of some of the stones. They've numbered this Keir stone as No. 501 and according to the sketch, it sits at the left hand side of the path, 11 rows in from the gate and should be in line with the ruin.
Anne
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:) :) Hi Anne. well I chickened out of climbing the wall and went to Viewforth for the key lol.
I found one grave only and that was the one you gave me the directions for and it was spot on, it was the one for Andrew Keir and Mary McGregor, my 3x or maybe 4x gt grandparents. there were a lot of stones that were toppled over, knowing my luck they belonged to my ancestors, but hey ho, finding one was better than none!!
Kate
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Great stuff Kate - I'm fair chuffed that you found the stone!
I love St. Ninians - there's always something interesting to be found.
Now that I think about it - I should have looked to see where the other stones were - what a numpty I am! ::)
If you're thinking about going back - give me a shout and I'll check the sketch and give you 'directions' to where the other one is in the Old Churchyard and the other one in the New Churchyard. (The New Churchyard is the one which surrounds the 'present-day' St. Ninian's Church and only has a handfull of stones left apart from a row or two of newish stones). Don't worry though - no wall climbing required to get in there!!
Anne
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Silly wummin!!! ;D What a lovely day it was today, the new church looked lovely in the sun, what a lovely church for a wedding. I will go back soon Anne so I would appreciate if you can find the sketch for me.
I thought I was going to disappear a couple of times today down some holes lol
Kate
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Righty ho ......
The James Keir & Mary Mouat stone is almost directly behind the one you found, only 4 rows further back. It should be just beyond the far side of the ruin, again to the left of the path.
The one in the New Churchyard .......
According to the wee drawing, you enter the gate and go to the right. The Church will be on your left, keep going till you get to the back wall and this stone is described as being a flat stone right in the corner where the back wall meets the wall on your right. I doubt very much if there'll be anything legible - these types of stones are usually completely eroded, covered with two feet of grass or moss, or have disappeared beneath the grass.
All that was left of the inscription listed in the book was: David Keir 1814 .........? Keir 1st February ......?
Anne
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Ok thanks for that Anne, will let you know how i get on
Kate ;) ;)
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hello please can you help looking for death,s of john and agnes stevenson. marry in st ninians 9th may 1820 they had 5 kids they are on 1841 cencus plean moor tyvm
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Hi Jane!
I had a look in the Mitchell's pre-1855 MI Book for stones in St. Ninian's and also Plean, but unfortunately although there are plenty Stevensons (in St. Ninian's), there are none for a John and Agnes Stevenson.
Sorry.
Anne
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hi jane here thankyou for looking for my stevenson family cant find a death for them
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You ought to get a medal for all your help on St. Ninians!! Do you ever sleep? lol
If you have a minute to spare could I ask for a lookup for members of the BOYD family? Looking for John Boyd married to Margaret Preston (ch: Wilson, David P., John, Janet Livingstone, Jean Graham), also John Boyd married to Janet Livingstone (ch. Margaret, Wilson, John, Jeane, Elisabeth, Marion) and James Boyd married Margaret Gilchrest (ch. John, William, Jean, John, May, Wilson, Margaret, Alexander, Mary). Dates from start to finish are approx. 1758 to 1865 for birth years, deaths could have been any time after birth.
Thanks in advance for anything you might find.
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Hi omap.
There's only one Boyd stones listed for the Old Churchyard, none in the New Churchyard:
1842 James Boyd Elizabeth Chrystal
In Holy Rude (beside Stirling Castle)
Anne C. Stephenson died in Stirling .....? wife of Alex Boyd
Erskine Churchyard - none.
As you'll know, these are only from stones bearing inscriptions - so if there wasn't stone .......?
Sorry!
Anne
P.S. Yes, I sleep like a log. Must be all the climbing over walls I do! ;D ;D
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Anne...What book do you get that info from. I'm just wondering if the Central Scotland Family Tree Society will have one in their library.
Cheers.
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Thanks Anne......yes, excercise is good!!
Is there any kind of date associated with Anne C. Stephenson wife of Alex Boyd by an chance?
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Fergie
The info came from 'East Stirlingshire Monumental Inscriptions, pre 1855', by John Fowler Mitchell & Shiela Mitchell. (ISBN 0 901061 82 4)
Falkirk Library & Falkirk Archives have copies so I would think the FHS would definately have one.
There's a whole series of these books which are available for about £10/£11 from the Scottish Genealogy Society in Edinburgh ( http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/welcome.htm ).
omap
Just by sheer co-incidence, I had a look at this stone a few weeks ago and there's very little left of the inscription. All I could make out was exactly the same as the Mitchells could in May 1970 when the survey of Holy Rude was carried out.
It sits backing on to the North Side of the church and sits in an enclosure in a lower part of the Churchyard.
If you contact Tony Murray, at: genealogy AT stirling.co.uk , he may be able to help you as he has mountains of info on Stirling Families.
Anne
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Thanks Ann.....will give him a try.
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I found this photo of a headstone in St Ninians churchyard in Stirling, it has 3 generations of my Meiklejohn Family including my grt grandfather grt grt grandfather and grt grt grt grandfather, I am hoping that perhaps there is someone who lives locally who could tell me if there are any other Meiklejohn headstones in the churchyard, names I am looking for are John and Lily Meiklejohn (nee Armstrong), Robert and Janet Meiklejohn (nee Aikman), John and Elizabeth Meiklejohn (nee Hall).
I have found other Meiklejohn's living in St Ninians as far back as the 1650's but I know St Ninians Church wasn't built until 1730 does anyone know what church would have been used for burials prior to then?
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The above photo came from The Scottish War Graves Project: http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=691&mforum=scottishwargraves (note the small 'SWGP' watermark at the base).
Although not a 'War Grave', because of the fact there was a military connection, in this instance the Royal Navy, this stone has been included. The War Graves Project site includes not only WW1/WW2, but all other conflicts and any stone which lists a connection to any service.
Anne
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The following MI's are from 'East Stirlingshire pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions'
1. 1811 Alexander Rattray & Isobel Meiklejohn
2. 1849 No. 611 John Glen & Mary Meiklejohn (No. 611 is possibly the Lair Number)
3. 1849 J G M M (Thought to be the same as above as it sits next to that stone)
4. Robert Meiklejohn died 19.12.1903 age 81
Wife Margaret Neil died 23.02.1903 age 74
Children
Janet Muirhead died 30.12.1879
Maggie died 30.03.1884
Bella died 24.09.1895
Grand-daughter Maggie Low Thomson died 19.02.1892 age 2y 5m
Step-son William died 26.10.1903
Thomas Neil died 16.03.1909
Robert died 18.11.1937
John died 07.01.1938
Father John doed 20.04.1842 age 54
Mother Janet Muirhead died 04.10.1854 age 41
Elizabeth Meiklejohn, wife of John Thomson died 19.02.1932
None of the names you're looking for unfortunately, but hopefully they'll fit in somewhere.
According to the same publication, the Register of Births for St. Ninian's goes back to 1653 (O.P.R's).
I think that the ruin right in the centre of the Churchyard was the original Church. (Have a look at Fergie's photo on page 1 of this thread - the ruin can be seen right behind the archway entrance).
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Thanks for your reply, I see what you mean by it not being an actual war grave and the connection is through James Meiklejohn being in the Royal Navy, I checked his death record on Ancestry and although there isn't much info on the death indexes I took it from the location given that he died at home, he was based in Stoke Damerel, Devon. There seems to be something else on the bottom of the headstone which is mostly covered by grass I can only make out the word 'dead' so I'm hoping to get to Stirling during the summer to see what it says. This photo has got me curious to find out who in the family continued to add the other names to the headstones up to 1955.
Thanks again
Marilyn
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I noticed 'dead' in the grass as well!!
It's possibly one of those wee 'plaque' type stones which tend to end up either lying flat or propped up against other stones. It might not be associated with your stone at all but fingers crossed that it is. The stone in the photo should be easy enough to find, as from memory, it's in the lower section (or 'New' Section), which is the bit you end up in if you decide to do some orienteering!
I hope you've read the 'How-to's' to get access to St. Ninian's ;D ;D
I'll keep an eye out for someone climbing the wall armed with some 'tools of the trade'
Anne
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Very interested in your post and the picture of the Meiklejohn gravestone in St Ninians.
The William at the top of the stone is my great grandfather, being the father of Edward, my Grandfather who appears last on the main stone.
I am from Stirling although now in Ayr but I have taken pictures of the stone years ago and have them sonewhere.
William and margaret Caldwell actually had 12 children. Which of them is your greatgrandfather?
Cheers,
Boyd Meiklejohn
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Hi Boyd,
Have sent you a pm, unfortunately forgot to add my email address, if you pm me I should hopefully be able to reply.
Marilyn
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Thanks, M!
I have just spent 30 mins looking for a way to send you a PM, but the link does not seem to be there on the message page to allow me to do that!
Can you PM me again with your email add?
I Knew about Matthew going to the USA and have a contact address there too - I will get all my info up to date and on the site too so we can compare. I have already discovered 1 mistake in my own info - I thought that there were 2 of Edward (my GF)'s brothers married Wilkie sisters - looks like it was only 1.....
I also have photocopies of the Family Bible for that generation.
Be patient with me and I will scan and sent you what I have too.
Cheers,
Boyd
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Hi Boyd
You need to have made 3 posts before you can send a PM. Just make another on here then click on the username of the person you want to send a PM to, this takes you to their Profile, scroll down and you will see a link to Send this person a PM
Andy
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Thanks! hopefully this will do the trick!
B
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Hello!
I was wondering if anyone could possibly check the pre 1855 register for St. Ninian's to see if there is any mention of a COWIE or LEIGHTON family.
Thank you,
Julius
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Hi Julius,
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
There is 1 Leighton, but no Cowies:
Mary Leighton died 20.2.18(8)0 age 83
Husband James Ferguson died 14.7.1864 age 63
Son James died 26.8.1848 age 23
Son Alex died 21.2.1850 age 20
Erected by son Andrew
I would advise you to edit your post and remove your personal e-mail address. It will be removed by one of the mods anyway - to avoid spamming etc.
Anne
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Thank you very much.
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Hello. I'm new here and hoping someone may be able to help me. I'm looking for any info for Baxter's in this area.
Thanks!
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Hello-
I have just stumbled upon this site, and am looking for some help. My great aunt has traced our family history back as far as the late 1600's, listing John Kincaid (born ~1675) married to Helen Duncan. She also writes that there were Kincaids buried at St. Ninians. We are planning a visit later this summer from the States, and any help you might be able to give would be appreciated.
Thank you!
Amy
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Hello Anne and everyone,
Could you please check someone for me in the old cemetery? ...
Agnes DOUGLAS (born c1805)
In the 1851 census she's in North End, Cambusbarron, St Ninians, Stirling
I can't locate her before or after that.
Thank you very much for any help.
John
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Hello Anne and everyone,
Could you please check someone for me in the old cemetery? ...
Agnes DOUGLAS (born c1805)
In the 1851 census she's in North End, Cambusbarron, St Ninians, Stirling
I can't locate her before or after that.
Thank you very much for any help.
John
Hi John,
Sorry to tell you that Anne (apanderson) passed away at the beginning of 2019.
Dave
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So very sorry to hear about Anne's death.
Anne was an absolute wealth of information and always so willing to help people with their searches.
I am only now beginning to get back into the family tree and will miss her friendly banter.
With sadness
Fergie.
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Hi John,
Sorry to tell you that Anne (apanderson) passed away at the beginning of 2019.
Dave
Hello Dave,
I'm very sorry to hear that. It's been a long time since I was here.
Thank you for telling me.
John