RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Sandra Seares on Sunday 18 January 09 01:40 GMT (UK)
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Could you please advise me how I post something to Cornish Ancestors in Rootsweb.
My GGrandfather John Warren Nankervis was born to a John Nankervis and a Nanny Warren (Conflicting dates in here) either 1840 or 1846. This has caused no end of trouble.
ON Ancestors Family Trees, sometimes he is married to one Elizabeth White and others to Mary Wearn Nankervis. I have attached a Marriage Certificate for a Mary Wearne Nankervis for your perusal. This was in Daylesford - Victoria Australia.
With both Wives on Ancestors, he is passing away in Daylesford Victoria in 1917.
My feeling is people have got the researching not quite right.
Now to my problem.
My GGrandfather William George Henry was born in South Australia in 1860 Father John Waring Nankervis, Mother Sophia Adams. He had a brother Thomas Adams Nankervis born 1857 Father John Warren Nankervis. After this there is no record of him in South Australia. I cannot find him dying there at all. Also the only John Warren born anywhere near those dates is perhaps the one born in 1840. 1846 would make him too young. I am thinking maybe he moved to Victoria and started a new life. Our South Australian Records here are not very good and one of the worst in all our states. We do have Sophia remarrying, this came from a friend who found this for me.(This maybe what you need.... Sophia JOY died 17 June 1892 aged 53 Reg Adelaide. Book 203 Page 112 Husband recorded as Henry JOY )
(Henry JOY died 8 Apr 1901 aged 65 Adelaide Book 277 Page 15).
Maybe there is someone out there that can help me. Maybe you could post this for me. I am a paid up member of Ancestors, just let me know how you wish to process if you can help me.
Warmest Regards
Sandra Seares
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Hi Sandra...and welcome to rootschat.
I am unable to help with a post to Cornish Ancestors on rootsweb or ?Ancestors...do you mean ancestry. Perhaps we can help you here.
I have asked a moderator to move your request to the Emigrants to Australia Board.
You appear to have taken John's birth from submitted records to familysearch.org. I always treat submitted records with caution.
Would you please type up all the information on the 1871 marriage cert in Victoria. You said you have it.
Marriage in Vic
NANKERVIS John born Cornwall
NANKERVIS Mary Wearn born Cornwall
1871 Reg #4597
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Births Sep 1853
NANKERVIS Mary Wearn Penzance 5c/328
Then there is this marriage
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Sep 1846
NANKERVIS John Penzance 9/227
WARREN Jane Penzance 9/22
and some 1846/1847 births
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Births Sep 1846
NANKERVIS John Penzance 9/193
Births Dec 1846
NANKERVIS John Monks Penzance 9/200
Births Jun 1847
NANKERVIS John Penzance 9/196
There are two deaths for a John NANKERVIS in Victoria one in 1917 and one in 1918 with the same parents!!
NANKERVIS John
Father Nankervis John Mother Jane WARREN
36 years at Prahran 1918 Reg#6386
NANKERVIS John Warren
Father Nankervis John Mother Jane WARREN
71 years At Daylesford 1917 Reg#8256
After all that searching...how do you think they fit with your SA family? Seems to be a different family.
Marriage Dec 1839
NANKERVIS John Penzance 9/243
WARREN Nanny Penzance 9/243
Births Mar 1840
NANKERVIS John Penzance 9/214
Births Jun 1840
NANKERVIS John Thomas Penzance 9/187
You could purchase a certificate from GRO to solve your dilemma
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
I am a bit puzzled at your friend's claim that the Sophia JOY dying in 1892 is the widow of John NANKERVIS.
This is the only marriage on the SA Indexes for a Henry JOY with a wife Sophia. There is no marriage for a Sophia NANKERVIS to a JOY.
Marriage
JOY Henry Full age Status Widow Father John JOY
FARRELL Sophia Full age Status Widow Father John ADAMS
3 Mar 1874
At St Paul Church [Adelaide] Ref Ade 98/903
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
I thank you for your reply and will try to absorb what you have sent me.I still think I am right though about Sophia Joy. I feel she was not married to John Nankervis. If her Father was a John Adams that makes her maiden name Adams. Can you tell me where the Farrell comes in? My GGreat Uncle Thomas Adams Nankervis born 1857 in SA was buried in the Brinkworth Cemetry in SA in 1942 and a 2nd cousin of mine who has been researching as well, rang that area and found relatives who knew of Thomas. They said he lived most of his life under the name of Tom Joy and that is how the locals knew him. Apparently when it comes to Sophia they do not want to talk of her. my cousin is chipping away at them.
I have to go to work today but will forward your email on there and peruse what you have told me.
I cannot work this attachment thing here if you could give me an email address I will forward the marriage certificate of John Nankervis to you.
Warm regards and thank you for your reply
Sandra
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Welcome to Rootschat Sandra. You need to make a few posts before you can use pm (personal message) system so if you post another reply then you should be able to send Cando your email address offline.
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Hi Sandra
I suppose what I have attempted to do is try to validate the information you have been given or found.
I found this marriage in SA allowing for mistranscriptions, illiteracy and accents. Should have continued with your query last night but it was getting quite late....well for me.
FERREL William 36 years Status Single Father John FERREL
ADAMS Sophia 33 years Status Single Father John ADAMS
24 Sep 1872
At St Paul Church Adelaide Ade 92/624
and this death but absolutely no way of proving it is the same Wm FARRELL...a commonly occurring name and ages don't quite agree. However a transcription of his death certificate from
http://www.saghs.org.au/research.htm#transcription
may yield more information. Hopefully both the marriage cert and death cert may show his occupation, if it is the same man.
FARRELL William
3 Feb 1874
40 years Status Not known
Residence Adelaide Death Place Adelaide Ade 56/124
There is not identifying information in the indexes to be sure this is the correct man....or woman for that matter. ADAMS also a fairly common name.
I think the fact that you have associated your gg uncle Thomas with the name JOY would certainly lead me to think this is the correct Sophia ADAMS and she was not married, well as far as we can find, to John NANKERVIS and claimed she was single of her marriage to John FERREL/FARRELL in 1872.
Death
NANKERVIS Thomas Adams
4 Aug 1942 84 years Status Single
Residence Brinkworth Death Place Blyth Cla H 653/4196
Link to South Australian Resources including information on bdm's over the years.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280572.0.html
Now back to this Vic family
On the same page on free bdm there is also a Jane NANKERVIS who could also have married a John NANKERVIS in Dec qtr 1839. Perhaps if you were to purchase the death certificate of the John Warren NANKERVIS who died in 1917 it may reveal a little more information. Perhaps that is where the name Jane as mother may have come from.
I have listed all the births I can see to John NANKERVIS and Mary NANKERVIS in the Victorian Indexes and you can see the variations on her surname.
NANKERVIS Mary Elizabeth
Father John Mother Mary NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1872 Reg#8445
NANKERVIS John
Father John Mother Mary Wa NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1875 Reg#22292
NANKERVIS Charles Henry
Father John Mother Mary NANKARVIS
At Daylesford 1878 Reg#2009
NANKERVIS Andrew James
Father John Mother Mary NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1879 Reg#22431
NANKERVIS William Ernest
Father John Warren Mother Mary WEARNE
At Daylesford 1882 Reg#1942
NANKERVIS James
Father John Mother Mary Warns NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1884 Reg#1966
NANKERVIS Annie Elizabeth
Father John Warren Mother Mary Warren NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1886 Reg#2266
NANKERVIS Richard Thomas
Father John Warren Mother Mary Wearn NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1888 Reg#2338
NANKERVIS Ethel
Father John Mother Mary We NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1893 Reg# 30903
NANKERVIS Joseph
Father John Warren Mother Mary Wearn NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1891 Reg#32307
NANKERVIS Stephen
Father John Warren Mother Mary Wearne NANKERVIS
At Daylesford 1891 Reg#12030
For your info
Death
NANKERVIS Mary Wearne
Father:Nankervis Andrew Mother Marjory NANKERVIS
Death Place Newton & Chillwell 86 years 1940 Reg#16178
and her parents' marriage
Marriages Sep 1853
NANKERVIS Andrew James Penzance 5c/486
NANKERVIS Margery Penzance 5c/486
Sandra I think the only way you can connect the John NANKERVIS who died in 1917 to your family is to purchase the death cert and see if he spent any of his time in Australia in South Australia.
You can purchase and immediately download from
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cheers
Cando
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Hello there Sandra and welcome to Rootschat.
This is a bit of a muddle isn't it.
Can I offer this suggestion please in good faith
Take no notice of other trees they are clouding the issue( As Dee has said)
and just tell us what you have to hand.
I am assuming you have traced backwards using certificates or family knowledge to the point of Actually knowing your GGF details
"My GGrandfather William George Henry was born in South Australia in 1860 Father John Waring Nankervis, Mother Sophia Adams"
did you come to this conclusion yourself using certificates etc or have you relied on information from others please
It might sound as if I am being critical but it is not meant like that, in order to help you out we do need a few hard facts.
Cando has certianly given you a lot to work with.
kind thoughts Jenn
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Jenn - my two bob's worth...again ::) I agree with your comments about other people's trees...
Perhaps this is how it goes!!
John NANKERVIS was born in 1840 in Penzance Cornwall to John NANKERVIS and either Jane NANKERVIS or Nanny WARREN who married in Dec qtr 1839 Penzance. I think John emigrated to South Australia...bet he was a miner. Fathered the two children with Sophia ADAMS and then moved on to another mining area in Victoria namely Daylesford and married Mary Wearne NANKERVIS dau Andrew NANKERVIS and Marjory NANKERVIS who married Sep qtr 1853 with Mary Wearn being born Sep qtr 1853 also.
I wonder how accurate the ages are on the marriage certs? Perhaps Sandra could please type up the details...I don't need to see the certificate.
I have read the numerous NANKERVIS and ADAMS entries in BISA and can't place either John or Sophia. Also searched the shipping indexes.
Note they both married about the same time John in Victoria 1871 and Sophia in South Australia in 1872.
I think the name Warren has caused people to perhaps guess or assume and then include possibly incorrect data The death cert in 1917 may help more. I think his age is more likely to be accurate on the death certificate if the information was given by his wife. There appears to be a 13 year age gap and how often do we see the man lowering his age when marrying a younger woman::) ::)
Thomas Adams NANKERVIS was known as Tom JOY and why don't the descendants wish to discuss Sophia ADAMS :-\
Cheers
Cando
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And a little more fact but is it the right man!
Australian Electoral Records
1903
NANKERVIS John Wearn, Stanley Street, Daylesford Miner
1909
NANKERVIS John Warren, Stanley Street, Daylesford Miner
NANKERVIS Mary Warren, Stanley Street, Daylesford HD
1914
NANKERVIS John Warren, Stanley Street, Daylesford Miner
NANKERVIS Mary Werne, Stanley Stret, Daylesford HD
Neither William George Henry or Thomas Adams NANKERVIS are identifiable on the 1909 South Australian Electoral Roll.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
Do not know if I am doing this right. Have logged in from work. I shall look more closely when I get home but there certainly seems to be more information about Sophia. Thank you so much. I am sure she was not married to John Nankervis. I think my John Nankervis is the one born in 1840. I know on his marriage certificate he states he is 25 which would make his birth 1846. He also says he is single. I am sure the John Nankervis passing in 1918 in Daylesford was his son. My GGrandfather moved to Victoria and most of his children were born there including my Grandfather Herbert Henry Thomas. He was married in SA to an Elizabeth Mufford. I have his death certificate, I think. Look maybe that John Nankervis in Daylesford was not my GGGrandfather. But what happened to my GGG if that was not him. It is such a mystery. Apparently my GG Uncle according to a relative who is in their 90's was illiterate and loved a drink. Went under the name Tom Joy. He told my 2nd cousin that Tom had a fiance who died and that is when he hit the drink. He apparently them moved up near the Adams family. where he worked on their farm till he died in 1942. They laid a tombstone which actually says Thomas Adams Nankervis laid by the Adams Family. I do not mind giving my email on here to you, would that be ok. Managed to attach marriage certificate.
Warm regards
Sandra
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Hi Cando
Me again. I do not know why they do not want to talk of Sophia Adams. This Old fellow that my cousin was talking to clammed up when talking of her.He is in his 90's. Doug has got in touch with someone there, and they say they will get in touch with him but have not. He seems to have hope I do not. I have got most of my records off Ancestory (Sorry I confused you). There are a few family trees on there that are completely wrong, I am sure. I have been researching my Megee side and thought I had problems there but it has been nothing compared to this. Have you got a site where I can search SA all I can fins are Microfiche searchings.
Warm regards
once again
Sandra
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sandra
plese don't post your email addrss on here It is not allowed and the moderators will remove it. You leave yourself open to scammers etc.
you can add the certificates by using the
Attach a photograph or image (and other options)
Now we now know that your grandfather was Herbert Henry Thomas Nankervis.
Will look for his birth, do you know approx when he was born please
Jenn
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Hi Sandra
I agree with you....Sophia and John do not appear to have married. Just a couple of things...the John who died in Daylesford in 1917 was aged 71 years ie born 1846. The name WARREN/WARNE/WERNE/WEARNE keeps appearing. I am wondering if they were cousins or perhaps 2nd cousins.
I think you need to actually sight the 1917 death certificate to see what information is on it. ....well that's what I would be doing. Certs are the only way to go....and hopefully not too many porkies were told along the way. I note that Mary Wearn's vital facts are all well supported.
If you ever purchase the certificate I am sure all those who are reading this thread will be interested....especially if the gentleman who died in 1917 spent any time in South Australia. It should be noted on the death certificate.
Cheers for now
Cando
Edit - correction
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death record in Victoria
NANKERVIS Herbert Henry Th died aged 68 in 1960 at Heid reg no 31383
Father George Harvy Mother Elizabeth An MUFFORD
Jenn
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That was my Grandfather Herbert Henry Thomas. Thank you Jen
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If you need this ;)
Birth
NANKERVIS Herbt Hy Thos
Father Wm Geo Hy Mother Elizth Ann MUFFORD
At Richmond 1891 Reg#36548
Marriage
NANKERVIS Herbert Hy Thos
MCCROREY Maud Agnes
1917 Reg#8476
I have found them on several electoral rolls in Victoria....would you like this information?
And his parent's marriage
NANKERVIS William George Henry 26 years Single Father John NANKERVIS
MUFFORD Elizabeth Ann 22 Single Father Thomas MUFFORD
2 Sep1886
At the Res of Rev A Turnbull Adelaide Ade 148/990
and her birth
MUFFORD Elizabeth Ann
28 Feb 1864
Father Thomas MUFFORD Mother Emily BOYES
At Bowden Ade 31/148
You probably have all this but I like to note all the index references when I detail my family history.
Cheers
Cando
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here is his birth details
NANKERVIS Herbt Hy Thos born Richmond in 1891 reg no 36548
father Wm Geo Hy Nankervis mother Elizabeth Ann MUFFORD
a number of other children born to this couple as well
Jenn
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Thank you Cando
I have all the information on both William George Henry and Herbert Henry Thomas. Thank You. It is just their wretched Grandfather and Father that is driving me crazy along with Grandmother and Mother.Were you able to open the marriage certificate? I feel he has lied and that his wife did not know any of this. If you see on his marriage certificate it looks as if he is born in 1846. There is also the possiblilty that it is not him. I shall for peace of mind get the death certificate, will do so when I get home, as I have the reference numbers there. I really do not think we will learn any more.
Warm regards
Sandra
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Thank you Cando
I have all the information on both William George Henry and Herbert Henry Thomas. Thank You. It is just their wretched Grandfather and Father that is driving me crazy along with Grandmother and Mother.Were you able to open the marriage certificate? I feel he has lied and that his wife did not know any of this. If you see on his marriage certificate it looks as if he is born in 1846. There is also the possiblilty that it is not him. I shall for peace of mind get the death certificate, will do so when I get home, as I have the reference numbers there. I really do not think we will learn any more.
Warm regards
Sandra
I don't see a marriage cert attached to any message.
NANKERVIS John Warren
Father Nankervis John Mother Jane WARREN
71 years At Daylesford 1917 Reg#8256
I agree with you it may not be your ancestor. Too many NANKERVIS marrying NANKERVIS and then this WARREN/WEARNE/WARNE name as well. Let's hope the cert may yield some more information.
Cheers
Cando
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Mary (formerly Wearne nee Nankervis)
on the Ships lists you will se an arrival on the William money
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/williammoney1849.htm
Jenn
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Jenn she is married to a NICHOLLS and has children
Nicholls William Henry 28 - -
Mary (fmly Wearne nee Nankervis) 30
William Henry 3
Ann inf
Cheers
Cando
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Yes I did realise that point, indeed, I thought the coincidence of the names was interesting. Wearne and Nankervis that is .
Jenn
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Here we go Cando, I have not had a chance to have a long look at it. Although age at marriage still says 25. He is saying 46 Years in Victoria and one in SA??? Big query on that. That is coming from family he may have kept this a secret. I will leave it to you to peruse. Let me know what you think
Warm Regards
Sandra
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Marriage Certificate Attached
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Well two things here....the registrar has noted the name WARREN should not appear in column 6...so John is the son of John NANKERVIS and Jane NANKERVIS and he lived for a time in South Australia and was born in 1846 and fathered all those children ::) ::) Incidentally this proves how incorrect all those other family trees are..... The value of a certificate ;)
I wonder who registered the two children in South Australia and if by any chance his signature appeared on either of the registrations. More food for thought.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
I did note that Warren thing. Is there any way of us finding out more in SA do you think? I knew all those other records were wrong. I am wondering if the Daylesford Clan even realise this. I have put a cat amongst the pigeons. What I have found when doing the other side of my Family Tree is, sometimes people are happy to accept it if it looks right, but a lot of times it is not. I had such trouble with my Megee side for almost the same reasons. 2nd marriages. I would not give up and solved it in the end. Mind you I have paperwork all over the place, and have not put it together, and a few things are going out of my mind, so I am going to have to soon sit down and organise things. I may start researching into this Farrell thing with Sophia.
Cheerio
Sandra
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Hi All,
Not sure if you would like to put these burials into your tree if you do not already have them
My GGrandfather John Warren Nankervis was born to a John Nankervis and a Nanny Warren (Conflicting dates in here) either 1840 or 1846. This has caused no end of trouble. Sandra
At Coburg Cemetery. All together
Nankervis, Nannie 15/12/1916
Nankervis , John aged 77 2/7/1907
Nankervis, Annie aged 35. 2/7/1894
Also together
Nankervis , Elizabeth Ann, aged 86 5/7/1949
Nankervis, William G. H. 13/1/1940
Nankervis, William A.J. aged 25. 1919 .
You can browse these and other details at
http://www.fcmp.com.au
Sue
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Hi Sue
WIlliam George Henry and Elizabeth were my G Grandfather and GGrandmother. I shall have to peruse the other one that may be of some help. Age works in well.
Thank you
Sandra
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Hi Sue
I did not know of this website. Thank you. I have so many relatives buried there.
That other nankervis is worth an investigation! What do you think Cando?
I have to go home now I have done no work at all.
Sandra
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Following on from Sue's finds....in the same order as per her post.
NANKERVIS Nannie
Father CHIRGIONI Wm Mother Elizth POOLEY
87 years at Preston 1916 Reg#15862
NANKERVIS John
Father Nankervis Jno Mother Jane GRYLLS
77 years Death place A V 1907 Reg#6742
NANKERVIS Annie
Father John Mother Annie CHERGWIN
34 years At Preston 1894 Reg#10904
NANKERVIS Eliz Ann
Father Mufford Thos Mother Emily UNKNOWN
At Fitzroy 86years 1949 Reg#6810
You will have William George Henry's details. ;)
NANKERVIS Wm Albt Victor
Father Nankervis Wm Mother Elizth MUFFORD
24 years at Carlton 1919 Reg#760
Sandra at the top of the board there is
>AUSTRALIAN RESOURCES
>VICTORIAN GENEALOGY....and a separate thread for each state. Lots of very good links to help you, hopefully.
Cheers
Cando
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The death in in 1917 says 47 years in Oz so that means he arrived 1870C
BUT William George Henry NANKERVIS was born in 1860 in SA to a John Nankervis??? and he doesn't appear to be on the death certificate as one of his children neither does Thomas Adams Nankervis.
JEnn
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The death in in 1917 says 47 years in Oz so that means he arrived 1870C
BUT William George Henry NANKERVIS was born in 1860 in SA to a John Nankervis???
JEnn
I guess the only way this can be proved is to find a shipping record. His age on the marriage cert in 1871 does not tally with his age at death.
Cheers
Cando
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Cando
can you see what I am trying to convey here.
This man may not be the father of William George Henry NANKERVIS.
Jenn
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Hi Cando
This John Nankervis, his mother Jane Grylls, I have seen this entry in Ancestory some times spelt Grills. May be worth investigation what do you think? Have you seen a death record for this person in VIC?
Sue I know the dates seem wrong with that John Nankervis which is why I thought he may have been lying. Somehow though I am going off the idea.
Sandra
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Just want to thank you so much for your help. I have been meeting so many brick walls with no help, and even though we may yet get another one we are trying. ;D
Hugs to you both
Sandra
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Hi,
NANKERVIS Nannie
Father CHIRGIONI Wm Mother Elizth POOLEY87 years at Preston 1916 Reg#15862[/i] Cando
This looks like NANNY's marriage in Penzance.
Freebmd.
Chergwen/Chergwin, NANNY,
same page
Nankervis, John 1854 sept 1/4 5c 494
Sue
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Oh I thought I had found her birth...same name place and parents but a little too early. :( Have deleted details
Cando
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Nankervis , John aged 77 2/7/1907
Would maybe this be the death certificate to persue?
What do you girls think
Jenn
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http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1620849?searchTerm=nankervis
This is Annie Nankervis funeral notice,
unfortunately doesn't reveal more more at all
Jenn
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There are also a number of births in Victoria for John Nankervis and Nanny Chirgwin in the 1850's.
Would that indicate that you could rule out this family from your searchings
NANKERVIS Nannie
Father CHIRGIONI Wm Mother Elizth POOLEY
87 years at Preston 1916 Reg#15862
NANKERVIS John
Father Nankervis Jno Mother Jane GRYLLS
77 years Death place A V 1907 Reg#6742
NANKERVIS Annie
Father John Mother Annie CHERGWIN
34 years At Preston 1894 Reg#10904
Jenn
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Hey
I thought I had sent a posting did not go here we go again
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Hey Everyone
My feeling is we have to go back to these dreaded SA Records and find out their validity. Is the information about their births coming from a reliable source. I somehow do not think so. Is there anyone that can think of anything.
Cheers
Sandra
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Not sure as to what you mean here Sandra,
the birth records on the indexs are from the actual records.
As Cando suggest it would be interesting to see who recorded the births.
Perhaps I am being a bit stupid here but I cannot see anything tying your ggfather by tracing him backwards to Sa to the births recorded in Victoria. The only thing in common seems to be the Name John Warren Nankervis.
On both of the death certificates you have neither your ggf or his brother get a mention.
Kind thoughts Jenn
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Sandra,
I had meant to mention also but felt you allready knew this but William George Henry Nankervis birth was also registerd as ADAMS.
Jenn
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Hi Jenn
I know, that is why it is probably not him. I am probably ignorant about SA Records. Are you saying that the ones we are accessing are Government records? If that is the case that is wonderful, and we have a good deal more information than I thought. I was starting to think they were just something someone had started up. The reason I have been going the way I have, is because I cannot finsd him in SA. I probably stupidly thought because my GGrandfather had moved to Victoria so had he. I hate to think I am going to give up but at the moment I feel like I will.
Hugs
Sandra
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Hi Jenn
I did know that, someone for a short time helped me, and then baled. They told me that. Still if these are the original records I may be able to get somewhere. If I rang SA who would you reccommendto speak to. There must be something somewhere surely.
Hugs
Sandra
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http://www.macbeth.com.au/products/bdms.php?show=one&id=69
This will explain about the index for births that were are referring to.
Jenn
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Thank you so much Jen
This is the information everyone has been getting thigs for me. Which means does it not, that we are at a dead end. They have obviously given me all the ionformation they have. What now.
Cheerio
Sandra
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Sandra
do you have your gf William George Henry Nankervis's death certificate that will say how long in Victoria perhaps.
It will give you and idea of when he went there .As you say he was married in Sa and then moved to Victoria.
One could assume he lived in SA till he married perhaps.
It is a sad thing but you might not find what happened to his father John Nankervis.
Jenn
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Hi Jen
I thought I did have his death certificate but I cannot find it. My 2nd cousin may, otherwise I will get that as well. I know he definately married in SA for sure. You can imagine if he was illegitimite, one cannot find that. I am sure he knew. I have emailed that Macbeth site for Diggers, and asking them if they can help me. I do not hold out any great hopes. Everybit of paperwork we have says John Nankervis and Sophia Adams as Mother and Father. I am wondering on that Diggers Site , as it uses Family search.org, that could be guess work, which is where the Warren has come in. Everyone has been such a great help thank you. Makes one cross that I did not start years ago, in my teens in would not have been as hard then.
Cheers
Sandra
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Perhaps your Sophia ADAMS had another child :-\
ADAMS Frederick Christopher
30 Sep 1861
Father Henry METZ Mother Sophia ADAMS
At Adelaide Ade X 20/187
Cross Reference See also METZ Frederick Christopher
METZ Frederick Christopher
30 Sep 1861
Father Henry METZ Mother Sophia ADAMS
At Adelaide Ade X 20/187
Cross Reference See also ADAMS Frederick Christopher
On the indexes there are two ADAMS births registrations with Sophia as mother, that are cross referenced, William George Henry NANKERVIS and the above. The Thomas Adams NANKERVIS registration is not cross referenced.
The South Australian Genealogy & Heraldry Society have a website and offer research for a fee.
http://www.saghs.org.au/research.htm
Cheers
Cando
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Perhaps to help anyone wishing to help, these are the records we are working from...
Birth in South Australia
NANKERVIS William George Henry
5 Jan 1860-01-05
Father John Waring NANKERVIS Mother Sophia ADAMS
At Adelaide Ref Ade X 15/255
Cross Reference See also ADAMS William George Henry
Name was John Warren NANKERVIS on brother Thomas Adams NANKERVIS birth registration.
Marriage in South Australia Reply#14
NANKERVIS William George Henry 26 years Single Father John NANKERVIS
MUFFORD Elizabeth Ann 22 Single Father Thomas MUFFORD
2 Sep1886
At the Res of Rev A Turnbull Adelaide Ade 148/990
Death in Victoria
NANKERVIS Wm Geo Hy
Father Nankervis John Mother Sophia ADAMS
At Fitzroy 80 years 1940 Reg#532
and looking for a possible connection to this John Warren/Wearn/ NANKERVIS
Death
NANKERVIS John Warren
Father Nankervis John Mother Jane NANKERVIS WARREN Note on cert name that WARREN is incorrect.
71 years at Daylesford 1917 Reg#8256
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
Thanks for that. I have emailed that Macbeth place that handles the Diggers CD's to see if they can help. I noticed on the information Sue gave me that the Latter Days Saints had a hand in it, which may mean that the Warren or Waring was incorrect. That Metz entry you found is intriging. I can find no record of them anywhere, can you? If it is Sophia my God she sure spread herself around.
Cheers
Sandra
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Sandra perhaps to help you understand the source of the information on the CD's I will copy the blurb from the CD cover.
Produced by Macbeth Genealogical Services Pty Ltd
The CD-ROM comes complete with Digger TM searching software. Digger TM has been created by Macbeth Genealogical Services in co-operation with Coherent Software Australia in consultation with the South Australian Genealogy and Heraldry Society Inc and the the Registry of Birth, Deaths and Marriages, Victoria.
Datafile Copyright 2005 South Australian Genealogy and Heraldry Society Inc.
Software Copyright 2005 Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
Portions Copyright Macbeth Genealogical Services Pty.Ltd
Copyright Dataware Technologies Inc.
Copyright Virtual Media Technology Pty . Ltd.
So you can see Macbeth only provide technical support.
Data on the disk,copyrighted to SAGHS, was transcribed from the SA bdm registers with the assistance of the Church of Latter Day Saints. Perhaps they helped the volunteers from SAGHS with the transcribing. Any information is transcribed as entered in the Registers.....not added to as you have suggested.
The reason the bdm Victoria is mentioned is they were consulted in the development of the Digger TM software.
Others may be able to explain better :-\
That Metz entry you found is intriging. I can find no record of them anywhere, can you?
There are a few entries on the SA indexes for the METZ family but only this birth details a Henry. Perhaps these births may be the reason the elderly gentleman is reluctant to discuss Sophia.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando
I think I do understand Now. It is just that I have found incorrect information on that Latter Day Saints website For instance, they have in one instance my GG as Wiliam George Harvey. But if they were only helping in the transcribing, then that information must have been there, I was thinking about the Waring & Warren thing.I am not meaning to be critical of them, just desperate and holding out that we may find something.
It is strange I have not heard from my 2nd cousin for a while, and he was the one in touch with them, ( the Adams) he felt it better if he handled it, as too many people would confuse them. He may be busy or away. I may email him at lunchtime and see if he has heard anything. I know he was onto another lead for himself re his aboriginal heritage on his fathers side and that was keeping him busy. Nankervis's may have been put on hold. We know what it is like when everything seems to come in at once.
Thank you once again for all your caring help. you may be assured that every now and then, I get despondent and think "Go Away" and then a good nights sleep and I am back. I hardly ever give up on anything but this is sure testing me.
Sandra
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Sandra you are viewing information extracted from parish registers or submitted information.
The Australian BDM's are not available as such on familysearch.org. The Church of the Latter Day Saints does have a CD of Australian records but under an agreement [not sure with whom, memory often fails me these days] it is not available for sale in Australia.
I will have a look and see what is detailed about Wm on family search.
Cheers
Cando
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Sandra I have scrolled through all the William NANKERVIS names on the Southwest Pacific Region/Australia and also did a all resources search, and can see not entry for an William NANKERVIS born in South Australia 1860. Perhaps I am not searching correctly.
Are you sure you are not confusing the websites...perhaps it was on ancestry.com you saw a family tree?
I still don't think you understand the difference between the bdm data on the indexes or CD's and the data on familysearch.org. The CD indexes are from the State Government Registries and the information on familysearch.org has been transcribed from parish registers and from submitted information. It has not been transcribed onto their website from the State Registry records. Perhaps I am not explaining it very well :-\
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
I am sorry I do understand, I just went off on a tanjent explaning the Latterday Saints thing. Probably confused you.I really do understand. I was probably trying to explain why I was confused. hope I have not made things worse.
With Family Search.org key in Herbert Henry Thomas born 1891 and that is where you see the William George Harvy.
I really do understand everything comes from the State registers. That would be everything wouldn't it. Everything they had would be on the CD? Or do you think it is possible we may find John Nankervis has signed something if we investigate further. I thought you maybe had suggested that or it may have been someone else. I really feel that will be th only time we get the truth for after he has split from Sophia I feel he will be hiding things. I could not imagine my Father ever owing up to an illegitimite Child.
Cheers
SAndra
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Sandra I was searching using William NANKERVIS b. 1860 South Australia on the advanced search.
This record you refer to is a submitted record and the name of the submitter is on the website. The person who has submitted the information has entered your ggrandfather's name as William Hrvy NANKERVIS so she not the Church of the Latter Day Saints, has mistranscribed his name from her source. This is the reason I do not use this website other than for extracted parish records.
You could write to the submitter named on the website and ask her to correct it. Hopefully she may still live at the address noted.
Yes I did suggest that a look at the birth registrations of both Thomas Adams and William George Henry to see if on the off chance John Warren NANKERVIS may have signed one of them. You could then compare the signature/s with the 1871 marriage certificate.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
I was replying to you, and lost my post for yours came in at the same time.I was explaining to you that I understood these entries came from Submitters. I think in the past I have tried to get in touch with these people from my McCrorey side and it is almost impossible. I could not be bothered really, or do you think I should make the effort. I suppose people are being misinformed aren't they.
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Hi Cando
How do I go about that?
Cheers
Sandra
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Purchase your William George or Thomas Adams' birth certs and hopefully he may have signed one of them. SA certs are a bit expensive at around the $38 mark when I last looked at the website. You can purchase online - scroll to bottom of the page
http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/bdm/applying/online/applyonline.html#Payment_and_delivery
Cheers
Cando
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A suggestion here
What about trying to get Thomas Adams Nankervis funeral or death notice it may help with your researching a long shot I know, or maybe not.
Jenn
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Could be a bit of a problem...
http://www.plainsproducer.com.au/AboutUs.aspx
The local paper closed down during WW2 and resumed in 1946.
Cheers
Cando
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To quote another Rootschatter with a long and varied list of ancestors - this is giving me 'brain pain' LOL.
However, I am probably going to the Nat Library tomorrow so I would be happy to look up death notices etc, if I have some idea of dates (not just a year) and where the person died so I know which newspaper to have a look at. I know the Melbourne Sun-Pictorial is probably the one with the most death notices inserted for Victoria, but I have no idea about SA.
Goodness me, this is a tangled lot! With my tongue firmay in my cheek I have to say I like the suggestion that they just all used the same information!! As with one of my families, a little imagination in naming off-spring would have helped. Imagine if they all got together for a family celebration.....
Cheers, Judith
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http://www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/sa/wakefield/brinkworthdata.htm
let me know if this opens. I do not think you will have any luck as he lived in that area for a long time under Tom Joy but the Adams family buried him as Thomas Adams Nankervis.
This is doing my head in.
Cheerio
Sandra
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Hey Cando or Jen
Can you advise me, if you know, if when you purchase a birth certificate from SA whether or not you get more information, or it is the same as on the Diggers CD. Do you think SA would let me know?
Cheerio
Sandra
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If you read this thread on SA Genealogy you will see a post with all the information on certificates at different periods.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280572.0.html
Lots of good links there as well for researching in SA.
It appears that at least two of John Warren's siblings may emigrated to South Australia...I will type up the information from the indexes and also some from the Cornwall Parish Records, tomorrow. Bit 'done in'...so very hot here today. Not the weather for sitting at the computer.
Cheers
Cando
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I have had a look at the census records etc. for England.
By own opinion though,
John Warren Nankervis by his marriage and death certificates
parents were John Nankervis and Jane Warren.
This couple marriage is on Free BDM married in 1846
John Warren Nankervis seems to be born in Feb 1848.
So that would rule that John Warren Nankervis out of the equation. I don't think he could have been in South Australia fathering children at such a tender age and then on to Victoria to marry and father a large brood.
what does anyone else think.
But bear in mind Nankervis isn't an easy name to trace cause of the variations of the spellings.
Jenn
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Thanks Cando
I feel that I will not get much more information, only the informant, what do you think?
Thanks Jen, The only reason I keep going back to him is I feel he lied about his age. Probably wrong, it is not likely in those days they had to prove age.
Sandra
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Have read this thread with interest and wonder if anyone can help.
I am also struggling with a 'John Nankervis' who married Mary Morey in Victoria. They are the parents of my Great Grandmother, Edna May who married Oliver Isadore Hempel.
John and Mary married in 1894 in Victoria and Edna was born in 1895. It seems that John and Mary had already had 5 children prior to their marriage:
Adelaide 1879 - 1880 Bethanga, Victoria (confirmed on Aus Death index)
Ethel Maud 1881 (Listed on Williams birth record)
William Henry 1882 - 1940 (confirmed on Aus Death index)
ANOTHER John 1884 - 1897 (confirmed on Aus Death index)
Ernest Albert 1887 -1889 (confirmed on Aus Death index)
My father also remembers an Aunt Violet he believed was Edna's sister though I am unable to find any record of her. (Not an expert!)
I wonder if anyone has further information that would help fill in gaps for me?
Regards
Jeanette
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Your John NANKERVIS gives his parents as James NANKERVIS and Sarah NANKERVIS (Trembath) and his place of birth as St Just Cornwall, and his age in Nov 1894 is 45 thus born abt 1849.
FamilySearch has this baptism which would fit with your man. It's an extracted entry which is good! Pendeen is 2 miles from St Just which he gives as his birthplace.
John NANKERVIS
Christening: 01 MAR 1850
Pendeen, Cornwall, England
Parents: James NANKERVIS, Sarah
FreeBMD gives this index entry
Births, Mar qr, 1849
NANKERVIS John, registered at Penzance Vol 9, p 232
You probably have the death index info for John NANKERVIS:
1908 #12061
Jno NANKERVIS, 59
Death Place: Wangaratta, Victoria
Father's Name: Nankervis Jas
Mother's name: Sarah Trembath
Judith
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Thank you, Judy! Just the confirmations that I needed.
Have never used FamilySearch or FreeBDM so now have a lot more exploring to do!
Many thanks
Jeanette
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hi
i was wondering if any one can help my wife's family are RICHARDS
a john retallack richards married ethel may nankervis
in trying to connect i have 1 john retallack richards born in cornwall 1842 approx died 1904 in rutherglen vic
my wife grandfather was a john retallack richards born approx 1902 which i dont think is the one above as he would have been 60 when he had my wifes grandfather
was wondering if this could be correct or is there another john retallack richards somewhere tht i am missing
any help would be appreciated
regards
Chris
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Hi Chris and Welcome :D
Maybe this is your John Richards
Death
RICHARDS John Retallick
1977 age 74 years Echuca
Father: Wm Mother: Ethel Nankervis
Reg# 4769
Raylen
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Thanks Raylen
That one is my wife's grand father we were looking to see if there was one between the John Retallack born 1842 died 1904
and this one on you description the fathers name Wm this might be what i am looking for would you have more information of the father
Regards Chris
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There is a digitised will for John Retallack RICHARDS, Gent, of Rutherglen, died 13 Nov 1904.
http://210.8.122.120/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54
There is no mention of a wife or children. He had property in Rutherglen and a farm in Wodonga.
Bequests are made to:
Thomas Retallack RICHARDS, nephew, of Hokitika, NZ
John RICHARDS, nephew
Helen Shepperd, housekeeper
William RICHARDS, nephew; (son of the late Captain RICHARDS of Beacon, Cornwall)
Ann Brokenshire, sister, of Beacon Cornwall
Jenifer ROBERTS, sister, of Condurrow, Cornwall
Appears possible that he may be an uncle, although the John RICHARDS mentioned in the will is not identified by a middle name, nor by place of residence. :-\
Judith
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Hi Judith
thank you for the information now i am more confused than i was before
i dont have my wife's great grandfathers first name we had presumed as grandfather was john retallack richards and the cornish one of the same name were related but now i am not so sure so need to find birth certificate for great grandfather but hard with out a first name
we know he married ethel maud nankervis
and had 3 sons
1/ john retallack richards 1902 my wifes grandfather married alice anna pleming
2 children kevin richards , kathleen richards 1927
2/ Thomas arthur richards
3/ william [bill] richards
have no information on the other children
Ethel maud Richards [nankervis ]
also married oliver harold cecil collins in the first war
then after war she married george gilbert
have some information on these as divorce notice in papers we found on line but not any children
i know i am asking a lot but any other information might help
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From http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au
Marriage
RICHARDS William
NANKERVIS Ethel M
Registration Number: 3064/1901
District: Albury
Births
RICHARDS Father: William Mother: Ethel M
District: Albury
John R Reg No: 9671/1902
William W Reg No:864/1905 died Reg No:1884/1906 District: Lockhart
Thomas A Reg No: 31601/1906
William D Reg No: 21533/1908
Raylen
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thank you for the information now i am more confused than i was before
i dont have my wife's great grandfathers first name we had presumed as grandfather was john retallack richards and the cornish one of the same name were related but now i am not so sure so need to find birth certificate for great grandfather but hard with out a first name
we know he married ethel maud nankervis
and had 3 sons
1/ john retallack richards 1902 my wifes grandfather married alice anna pleming
2 children kevin richards , kathleen richards 1927
2/ Thomas arthur richards
3/ william [bill] richards
Death
RICHARDS John Retallick
1977 age 74 years Echuca
Father: Wm Mother: Ethel Nankervis
Reg# 4769
Raylen
You said you don't know your wife's great grand father's first name :-\
Death registration for the grandfather given above indicates his name was WILLIAM
Seems to be confirmed by the marriage and births I listed above :D
Raylen
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thanks very much Raylen
you have done well given me some very useful information to follow up on did not think they would have been listed in NSW thought they all came from victoria
but i dont think i am connected to the John retallack richard in cornwall that i thought was the connection
will have to look futher into who william Richards father is could be the nephew mentioned on judiths information which could connect
because it seems so coincidental that they have have the same names unless william named his son after his uncle
thanks again for the usefull information
chris
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Hello cousin i haven't met:) Charles is also my great grandfather i was googling him because I pretty much had the same questions :)
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