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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JustinL on Monday 19 January 09 10:12 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
The attached image is taken from the 1911 census of 46 Clifton Gardens, Maida Vale (Paddington).
I can clearly read my grandfather's name and that of his mother, but can anyone please decipher Reginald Prendergast's middle name? I've tried to search for him, but I keep drawing a blank.
Reginald was born in Rangoon, Burma to British parents.
Thanks,
Justin
Moderator Comment: image removed.
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Is it Vereker?
Sylviaann
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Venker?
Sit a metre or so back from the screen and squint helps a bit
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I first thought Vereker but her 'r's are very distinctive so think it's most likely Venker
Gadget
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Looking at the "n" in Reginald, I'd say it's either Venker or Vanker.
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A Google finds that the names Vereker and Prendergast seem often to be connected - though usually in the other order i.e. as Prendergast VEREKER ... An aristocratic name ... An obituary of a Colonel Evelyn David Vereker PRENDERGAST says he was the grandson of General Sir Harry PRENDERGAST VC who was in Burma in the1880s.
JAP
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I think I'v e just found his WW1 Medal card but, would you believe it, he's down as R V Prendergast!. Royal Field Artillery.
Maybe there are other WW1 records for him.
Gadget
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Reginald V. Prendergast is a boarder aged 10 at Inholmes School, Cheltenham in 1901. Mabel Prendergast aged 31 and Lancelot C. Prendergast aged 2 are visitors there. All three were born in Rangoon, Burmah. RG13 Piece 2463 Folio 53 Page 7.
Doesn't help with the middle name, though.
By the way, the 1911 people transcribed it as "Reginald Veuher Bradergast".
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General Harry N.D. PRENDERGAST (see my earlier post) is Head of Household in 1901 in Heron Court, Richmond, Surrey. One of his children listed there is Arthur F.C.V. PRENDERGAST, 14, born India.
A search of the National Archives gets some hits for Arthur as:
Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST.
JAP
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Great find JAP for Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST!
General Harry Prendergast was present both in India, and in Burma too - he seemed to be quite important in the action in the Third Burmese War.
See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Prendergast
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One has to suspect that Mabel might be the mother of Reginald V ...
I guess if Justin is keen to trace Reginald, it might be worth looking for Mabel and Lancelot in the 1911 just in case there are some clues ...
FreeBMD has a marriage of a Gerald Neill PRENDERGAST with a Mabel (Mabel Mary RILEY) on the same page - but not until Dec 1903.
In 1881, Gerald Neill PRENDERGAST, age 19, born Ireland, was a Gentleman Cadet at Sandhurst.
In 1891, Gerald N PRENDERGAST, age recorded as 39 (surely an error for 29), born Ireland, a Captain in the Kings Royal Rifles was in the household of his father, a Colonel PRENDERGAST.
There are some PRENDERGAST trees on the Web - not very informative.
There seem to have been a few PRENDERGASTs in Burma ...
In the 1881 there's a Mary K PRENDERGAST, Wife of an Officer, with a son and two daughters - two of these were born in India, and one in Burma.
JAP
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I've just looked for Mabel and Lancelot C. Prendergast on the 1911 census, and couldn't find either of them, but I didn't use any variant spellings.
I've found a marriage for Lancelot C. Prendergast to Eileen A.S. Milward in Malling Kent, Jul-Sep 1927 Malling 2a 2217. There's a marriage for Reginald (no middle initial) Prendergast to Sylvia Mabel Kirkpatrick Apr-Jun 1901 Isle of Wight, Hampshire 2b 1366. Perhaps that's Lancelot's parents, although Lancelot would have been born before they were married.
No death for either Lancelot C., Reginal V., or Mabel on the incomplete death index on ancestry, but they may simply have died after the index has got up to.
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I've found a marriage for Lancelot C. Prendergast to Eileen A.S. Milward in Malling Kent, Jul-Sep 1927 Malling 2a 2217. There's a marriage for Reginald (no middle initial) Prendergast to Sylvia Mabel Kirkpatrick Apr-Jun 1901 Isle of Wight, Hampshire 2b 1366.
I found quite a bit on the Isle of Wight Kirkpatrick/Prendergasts when I was searching - it would be either The London Gazette or the Nat Archive site.
I'll see if I can find it again.
Gadget
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Here it is:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=189-kpk&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1
Not sure if it's the same family but may as well put it in the pot :)
Gadget
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That’s interesting, Gadget. Since the heir to the estate was Reginald Prendergast, it looks likely that it is the right family, at least the family of the Reginal Prendergast who married Sylvia Mabel Kirkpatrick. We don’t know if he was the father of Reginald Vereker Prendergast.
I looked in the census for a Reginald Prendergast and the only other one that came up was this one...
1871 Class RG10 Piece 104 Folio 33 Page 14 Reginald Prendergast age 7 born Northamptonshire, older brothers born in Ireland and Scotland father Lenor Prendergast and Marion. 22 Grosvenor Garden.
1881 Class RG11 Piece 98 Folio 123 Page 22 Reginald Prendergast (transcribed as Pymold) age 17, scholar, born in Harleston, Northamptonshire. Son of Lennre and Marion Prendergast. Lennre is a Lieut Col MP late Royal Scots Greys active. 22 Grosvensor Gdns.
1891 ClassRG12 Piece 72 Folio 25 Page 3 Reginald Prendergast age 27 born in Northamptonshire, Harleston. He is a Manufacturer (Silver). Son of Lenox and Marion. Lenox is a Colonel late Royal Scots Greys. 22 Grosvenor Gardens.
1901 Class RG13 Piece 85 Folio 31 Page 6 Reginald Prendergast age 37 born in Warburton Northampton. He is living on his own means. Son of Colonel Prendergast and Marion. 22 Grovenor Gdns.
If you Google Lenox Prendergast you come up with the family history here http://www.links.org/links-cgi/readged?/home/ben/camilla-genealogy/current+c-prendergast116+2-5-0-1-0
If you click on Reginald in the list of descendants it says he is of the Isle of Wight, which sounds encouraging. BUT, how do we get from him to Reginald Vereker Prendergast who was born in 1891, way before Reginald married Sylvia Mabel. Did he have a first marriage, maybe in Burma, which didn’t show up in the English BMDs?
Edited to add, I just realised that's Reginald is pretty well accounted for in all of the censuses, which only leaves him the 10 year gaps in between to pop off to Burma, get married and father a couple of children. I'm thinking that this probably isn't the right man.
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I've not found any births in the Consular returns so far but will have another go later.
Another question is why he was a visitor at the Levy's in 1911. Was he a friend of the family or distant relative or ...?
The medal card states under correspondence:
'Dir Gen of Ord in India fwds claim to 1915 star - 11.3.20'
R V Prendergast was a Lieutenant. in the RFA. Theatre of war entered - Mesopotania - 6.7. 15
Nothing else on the Medalcard and nothing, so far, on any of the other service records. He didn't come up when I searched the CWGC site :(
Gadget
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Another reference, again without the middle name, that might be him:
Passengers leaving the UK -
Reginald Prendergast, aged 39, leaving Liverpool for Bombay on 9 November 1928. Married. Occupation - Indian Ordinance. Accompanied by Mary Prendergast, aged 41..
The age roughly approximates with the 1911.
Gadget
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R V Prendergast was a Lieutenant. in the RFA. Theatre of war entered - Mesopotania - 6.7. 15
Here's a link to the London Gazette of January 1916, confirming the appointment of Reginald Vereker Prendergast to the rank of second Lieutenant in the Royal Field Artillery.
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/29456/supplements/1227
And appointed 2nd lieutenant (on probation) in 1915 which ties up with the date Gadget gave above. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/29118/pages/3254
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Oh well done, Jennifer :D
It all ties in. It looks as if the Dir(ector) Gen(eral) of Ord(inance) in India (1920) and the Reginald Prendergast, Indian Ordinance (1928) might be a good link as well :)
Gadget
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We seem to have come a long way from JustinL's original query which was only to decipher the middle name of Reginald PRENDERGAST :) I wonder whether he wants to explore things further?
The very first reply, from Sylviaann, proposed Vereker; I read it that way also.
But then CharlotteCH, Gadget and Nick29 didn't agree with this so, being convinced it was Vereker, I went Googling for combinations of the names Vereker and Prendergast - there were quite a few (some with Prendergast as a given name and surname VEREKER, and some with Vereker as a given name and PRENDERGAST as a surname). I posted a couple of these latter (first Colonel Evelyn David Vereker PRENDERGAST, and then Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST plus their connexion to General Sir Harry North Dalrymple PRENDERGAST VC of India and Burma fame).
JenB, it's absolutely great that you have finally found a record of Reginald with his middle name recorded in full - I guess any who might still have harboured doubts are now converted to Sylviaann's original interpretation 8)
I didn't specifically mention earlier what seem to be the origins of the connexion between the Vereker and the Prendergast names so will do so now for completeness - it is rather convoluted and might be of interest.
It apparently goes back to the Irish peerage, specifically the Prendergast Baronets of Gort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prendergast_Baronets
The title died out at the death in 1760 of the second Baronet who was childless. The Prendergast estates passed to the Baronet's nephew (son of his sister) John SMYTH who assumed the name of PRENDERGAST.
John SMYTH/PRENDERGAST could not inherit his uncle's title but he was subsequently created Baron Kiltarton of Gort. Later he was created the 1st Viscount Gort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_Gort
As it happened, John SMYTH/PRENDERGAST also died without sons to inherit his title. But he had somehow managed to secure a special remainder such that the title would pass to his nephew, Charles VEREKER, the son of John's sister Juliana SMYTH by her marriage to Thomas VEREKER.
As can be seen from the Wiki list of holders of the Irish peerage, Viscount Gort, quite a few of them were given Prendergast as one of their given names.
The title is now held by the ninth Viscount, Foley VEREKER.
Another twist to the tale is that the sixth Viscount, John Standish Surtees Prendergast VEREKER, was created Viscount Gort in the UK Peerage in 1946. But he too died without sons so he was the 1st and last Viscount Gort in the UK Peerage as there was no special remainder for it to pass to anyone else. The Irish peerage passed to his brother.
Phew!
Well, that's all very interesting (or I found it so) about certain connexions between the Prendergast and Vereker names.
One has to suspect that the use of Vereker as a given name with the surname PRENDERGAST might well have connexions to the stories of the Irish Peerage - but we can't know that so, if Justin is interested in delving further into the background of Reginald Vereker PRENDERGAST, there's plenty more digging to do! Especially his connexion (presumably there would be one) with Mabel and little Lancelot PRENDERGAST, both born Burma - fascinating find by Aniseed in the 1891 1901 where they were visitors at the school where Reginald V PRENDERGAST was boarding.
JAP
PS: A couple more snippets.
1. Our old friend Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST also appears with a Patent Application for design of improvements to a collapsible suitcase ...
2. There's a 1935 (as I recall) Divorce case involving Lancelot Claude PRENDERGAST.
3. And now a rather puzzling record. There's a medal card for Lieut L C PRENDERGAST (with names in full as Lancelot Claude added in a different hand)! I haven't found him elsewhere but I'm wondering whether (unless there has been some confusion) this might be the father of little Lancelot from the 1901 ...
Edited to correct a census date from 1891 to 1901
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I first thought Vereker but her 'r's are very distinctive so think it's most likely Venker
Gadget
Before we get any further with you account, JAP, please note my original comment. We have all spent time trying to find who this person is.
Gadget
PS - I am still interested in his relationship to the Levys :)
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Before we get any further with you account, JAP, please note my original comment. We have all spent time trying to find who this person is.
Gadget
Thankyou for your account JAP - despite the convolutions it is very interesting, amazing how a seemingly simple search to verify a name can uncover so much information - My skills at interpreting old print/writing are zero, but I notice on RC the first suggestion is often the closest - but it sometimes takes a little while to find additional evidence.
Trish
Edit: I had a browse of the Times online but could find nothing of Reginald - mention of John Standish Surtees Prendergast VEREKER - who was awarded the VC
The Times, Thursday, Nov 28, 1918; pg. 4; Issue 41959; col C - Seven New V.C.'S. The Guards At Canal Du Nord., Lord Gort's Bravery
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I am completely overwhelmed by all the help you have all provided. Amazing! Thank you very much indeed.
Sorry that it's taken so long to reply - there's a lot going on at home at the moment.
I imagine that Reginald was one of my grandfather's friends, probably from their school days at Merchant Taylors' in London. I shall check my gf's photo album.
Thanks again,
Justin
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Well, some you win, some you lose, but I'm glad you got there in the end :)
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I've had a bit more of a trundle round various records (following up on Aniseed's find of the Visitors, Mabel & Lancelot Claude, at Reginald's school).
I think now that the medal card is for "little" Lancelot (aged 2 in 1901). I've not looked at medal cards previously and thought it was to do with WW1. But some searching seems to indicate that they extended for more years so Lancelot could have been in his 20s. It includes a General Service Medal with Iraq and Kurdistan clasps ...
And I found the following record which - from date and place - looks as though it is likely to be Mabel, the Visitor in 1901 (and probably mother of Justin's Reginald Vereker and of little Lancelot Claude).
Marriage, Holy Trinity Rangoon Burma (CE) Claud Moray PRENDERGAST, Superintendent of Police, to Mabel Louisa LLOYD, Sep 1889.
Then on FamilySearch, in the IGI-Asia, there is a submitted record as follows:
Claude Moray PRENDERGAST, bap 30 Sep 1866, Rangoon West Bengal, parents Charles Oloughtin Lamb PRENDERGAST and Mary Kathleen.
I mentioned earlier that there is a Mary K PRENDERGAST in the 1881 census, Wife of an Officer, with a son Donald and daughter Ethel both born in India, and a daughter May born in Burma. So it seems likely that Mary K is probably Reginald Vereker's grandmother ...
Are there any more mentions of Vereker? Well, as a matter of fact ...
Mary K PRENDERGAST is in the 1891 in Portsea, wife of a General in the Bengal Army, and has with her daughter Ethel (now married with married name BOWLES) and Ethel's two children, one of whom is a son Verikie C BOWLES aged 7. A check on FreeBMD show his 1884 birth listed as Verak- Claude BOWLES; the image reads Veraker Claude BOWLES ...
So I guess all this could be explored further if anyone wishes ... There are certainly records of Charles OLoughlin Lamb PRENDERGAST (he was born in Ireland) and Mary Katherine WHEELER around ...
JAP
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Wow, JAP, what amazing detective work! That marriage of Claud Moray Prendergast and mabel Louisa Lloyd in 1889 is just about right for them to be the parents of Reginald Vereker Prendergast born in 1893 or so. Then the find of Charles Oloughtin (could that be O'Loughlin?) Lamb Prendergast and Mary Kathleen combined with Mary K in the censuses, is very exciting. I really think you're onto the family here. Well done!
Even if Reginald Vereker isn't directly part of JustinL's family...it's been a terrific chase and I've learned a huge amount about the history Burma that I never knew before. As to whether the original handwriting said Vereker or Venker, I agree that it is very similar to the 'n' in Reginald. Could it be possible that JustinL's great grandmother asked Reginald to write out his name for her and herself misread his middle name as Venker rather than Vereker? If you search the Ancestry BMD indexes using Vereker as a forename with no surname you get many, many hits. If you do the same using Venker you get none. I know that's not proof, but it's a huge precedent for Vereker being used as a forename.
Edited to add: Gadget, that's interesting info about the India connection. I read it yesterday when I was too busy to take it in properly, I will have to mull it over later.
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hello
reginald vereker prendergast is a member of my family. I would be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching him.
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Hi I have just discovered your posts about Reginald Vereker Prendergast. He is a relation of mine and I would like to make contact with you. I am new to this and hope this is the way to chat to you.
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Hello and welcome rootschat (rc).
I am assuming that RVP was simply a friend of my grandfather; there was certainly no famial relationship.
How you tried a search of the rc archives for Prendergast? Simply click on search in the toolbar at the top of the page and enter Prendergast into the left-hand box.
You can also add Rangoon and/or Burma.
I would also advise you to start a new separate thread in the beginners section. Put the name Prendergast in the topic/thread title. Better still, add a link to this topic.
Do you know whether RVP attended the Merchant Taylors school in Charterhouse?
Justin
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Hi Justin
Thanks for your reply and advice. I was delighted at the interest shown in Reginald Vereker Prendergast by you and others. As far as I know he did not attend Merchant Taylor's. In the 1901 census he is shown as a pupil at Inholmes School Cheltenham Gloucester. The family lived in Paddington, so perhaps he was a friend of your family. Good luck with your research.
Honeypots
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He would have been at Merchant Taylors somewhat later probably - 13 to 18 years old - if at all.
My family had lived in Paddington since 1896, when they returned from South Africa. In 1901, they were living in Sutherland Avenue.
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Hi Justin. Thanks. I have tried searching Merchant Taylors for old alumni but they do not seem to have any information on line. If I manage to trace Reginald Vereker there I will let you know. Have you been contacted by any relatives or descendents at all? They are quite a difficult family to pin down. Thanks to your input I managed to find him in the 1911 census wrongly transcribee as Bradergast!
Honeypots
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What a cracking thread. I hope you don't mind a slight digression, but I too am very interested in Reginald Vereker Prendergast, particularly the person he married.
Reginald was born 12 August 1890 in Rangoon, Bengal, India. He married Mary Elizabeth Eckersley on 4 October 1924, in Bombay. Mary had been previously married to Walter Herbert Eckersley who had died in a tragic accident in 1919.
Mary and Reginald eventually moved back to the UK and settled in Scarborough where they both died, Reginald in 1952 and Mary five years later in 1957. I'm expecting to get a photograph of the grave (if indeed there is a stone) sometime very soon.
I would be delighted to hear more from anyone who can assist me in my search for information and memorabilia.
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Maybe I can add a little more. My great-aunt, Betsy Jane Pendlebury, was born in 1854 and married George Shaw at the Church of St Cynfarch and Mary, Llanfair DC, Ruthin, North Wales in July 1883 and lived at Pennington Hall, Leigh. They had two sons, William and Frank, and a daughter Mary Elizabeth who was born on 20th October 1884. Mary Elizabeth married Walter Herbert Eckersley, who was born on 7th April 1875, on 6th January 1904. Mary was widowed on 28th August 1919 when Walter was involved in a tragic accident. There were no children. I hope this helps.
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A belated reply but I did promise to post images of the final resting place of Mary and Reginald. They are buried At Woodlands Cemetery, Woodlands Drive, Scarborough.