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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: Benzol on Sunday 01 February 09 19:28 GMT (UK)

Title: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: Benzol on Sunday 01 February 09 19:28 GMT (UK)
Hi everybody,

Wanting information about my McNaughton forebears.

My great grandfather William McNaughton died in Perth Infirmary on the 17th December 1889 age 55. His death certificate shows cause of death "Shock; broken ribs and forearm; ruptured bladder; internal haemorrhage" - pretty nasty, an accident, a fight, I'd love to find out! I don't know if there are any Perth newspapers covering this period. Does anyone know? Can someone have a look-see in the obit. section (or maybe a few lines about an accident) if such a newspaper still exits?

My earliest record of the McNaughtons of Perth was for my great x3 grandfather also William  when he married in 1791, he died aged 80 in 1835. He was a "Flesher" in Bridgend the opposite side of the river Tay from Perth. His son Alexander and all Alexander's male offspring were also Fleshers, but in the town centre of Perth by now. Could someone look-up the Trade/Town directories for a McNaughtons Butcher of Perth, please, in the middle of the 19th century ?

Thanks Benzol
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 February 09 19:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Benzol

RE Ggrandfather William's horrible end, was there a reference to the Register of Corrected Entries on his death entry on the register - normally some writing on the l/h side outside the first column. If so, you will see a button to view this entry on the image (RCE). It cost a couple of units but might explain the circumstances behind William's death. I would imagine there would have been an investigation of some form by the Procurator Fiscal.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: Benzol on Sunday 01 February 09 20:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica,

Thanks for the reply. Could you be more explicit. I'm a poor old English boy, well quarter Scots. I've spent many a happy hour in Perth and Perthshire over the years but live 400 miles away and have little understanding of Scottish records. Are you referring to Scotlands People dayabase>

Benzol
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 February 09 21:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Benzol  :)

Where did you get the death cert for William who died in 1889? I imagined it was perhaps from Scotlands People, the BMD official site for Scotland. Normally when you view an image, and there is additional information on the separate Register of Corrected Entries (RCE) this is shown by a red button at the top of the image which if you decide to view (from memory I think it is an extra 2 units) will take you to the entry/image on the RCE register.

Given there are normally at least 3 entries on any given BMD register, the way to tell if the RCE button relates to your entry is if there additional hand written notes on the l/h side of your entry (these are references to the Register of Corrected Entries page).

Monica
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: Benzol on Sunday 01 February 09 23:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica,
Thanks. I'll have a look at Scotalnnds People.

Benzol
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: Benzol on Thursday 05 February 09 16:53 GMT (UK)
Hello Monica,

At last had a chance to look at my records. What I have is a single page (188) of deaths from the District of Perth for the year of my great grandfather's death in 1889. I've had another look at Scotlandspeople. This indicates that the death is "SRI" and not "RCE". (Can you say what SRI and RCE mean?). Like you I would have anticipated some kind of coroner's investigation. Perhaps the circumstances were cut and dried with plenty of witnesses. An accident in the slaughterhouse or a road accident spring to mind. Suffice it to say that I am back to square one.

 All the best Benzol
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 February 09 09:59 GMT (UK)
RCE stands for the Register of Corrected Entries and the reference for this register are normally written on the actual entry in the BMD Register. In recent years, Scotlands People have digitized these RCEs and made them available on line, linked to the original image of the BMD cert on line (this is what I referred to regarding the red 'RCE' button on line at SP).

SRI, I think, is simply a reference to the Statutory Register Index, i.e. the standard entry on the register.

In the absence of any RCE entry, local newspapers of the time may be the way to go.

Monica
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: sancti on Friday 06 February 09 13:13 GMT (UK)
It is strange that there is no RCE for the death. Perhaps it was related to his line of work i.e. crushed by an animal carcass, and there was no need for an inquiry.
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: KirstyG on Sunday 08 February 09 16:51 GMT (UK)
Contacting the A K Bell library in Perth would probably be the way to find out about the newspapers.
It would seem that the archive collection is held there according to the National Library of Scotland Index.
http://www.nls.uk/collections/newspapers/indexes/


Kirsty
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: Benzol on Tuesday 23 January 18 12:47 GMT (UK)
Monica and others
My friend finally visited AKBell library. He told me that the archivist at the library was brilliant. She immediately found an article in The Perthshire Constitutional & Journal (Dec 18, 1889). The article described in graphic detail how my g grandfather jumped from a 3rd floor attic in Meal Venal and later died in the Royal Infirmary.

My mate also obtained a copy of the death register entry. Which describes William McNaughton as a flesher and widower of -- Wilson. I assume this info was obtained from David Hallyburton William's nephew who was the informant.

As far as the demise of William is concerned, it's very sad but at least I have the detail. My original query about the second marriage to somebody named Wilson remains unsolved.

Thank you all for showing interest in my research but I guess, for the moment, case closed.

Benzol
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 23 January 18 21:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Benzol

Thank you for the update. Sad depressing end for your William, but you now have the details.

I had another look, trying to find anything on a possible Wilson second wife....and nothing there is there  :-\

Just a thought for you. Given that William's wife Lilias Douglas died in 1861, a good c 28yrs before William, could William's nephew, David Hallyburton, who reported his death in 1889 have simply made a mistake when trying to remember Lilian Douglas' name?

Monica

Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: sancti on Friday 09 February 18 19:26 GMT (UK)
In the 1881 census he is lodging at 126 South Street, Perth. Also in the household is a Margaret Wilson
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: bleckie on Monday 12 February 18 18:56 GMT (UK)
Hi All

126 South street Perth seems to have an interesting history, I had a look at the valuation rolls on Scotlandspeople in 1875 it would appear the owner is a Miss Elizabeth Pullar and she seems to occupy part of the house, also with the same address are various tenant/occupiers including a tavern and stables, a lumber yard.
The next valuation roll in 1985 it is a shop and the owner/occupier is a Mrs Ann Ramsay.
There are only 2 McNaughton's on the valuation rolls for Perth from 1855 to 1935 that I could find one is in 1920 and the other 1935.

From memory there used to be a lodging house in South street I came across this when researching something else and I cannot remember when that was I think the early 1900s will have to do some digging.

Yours Aye
BruceL
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 13 February 18 14:39 GMT (UK)
There are these McNaughtons showing in the 1885-6 PO Directory www.archive.org/stream/postofficeperthd18845mars#page/158/mode/2up

No William, flesher, though  :-\ Maybe worked at one of the flesher businesses of the time www.archive.org/stream/postofficeperthd18845mars#page/216/mode/2up

126 South Street not showing here, from 1885, www.archive.org/stream/lesliesdirectory1885prin#page/242/mode/2up/search/macnaughton

Monica
Title: Re: McNaughton Perth - Fleshers (Look-up)
Post by: bleckie on Tuesday 13 February 18 20:14 GMT (UK)
Hi All
For useless info 126 South street Perth is next to the Tesco Metro, it would back onto canal street in the late 1800s early 1900s there was a fire in the whiskey bond in canal street where there were reports of burning whiskey running down the street it destroyed a lot of the buildings in what is now Speygate I wonder if this is what destroyed the wood yard and associated properties I remember reading a report of this fire in old newspapers but cannot remember the dates if anyone has access to the newspaper archives!
Yours Aye
BruceL