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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: patvp1 on Sunday 01 February 09 23:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, and another query.
Obtained the death cert of Margaret Stewart born 1863 Thornhill, parents Robert Stewart and Jane Ferguson.
Was quite surprised to find it actually as it was a long shot...
Also VERY surprised to find she had been married 1st to John Connelly and 2nd to James King, she died in Deanston Kilmadock in 1941 age 79 informant being James Connolly (son).
Problem is I can find no marriage for her and John Connelly, they had three children (according to Ancestry) Patrick 1881 born Doune, Robert 1889 born Doune and James 1890 also born Doune.
I do have a marriage for her and James King in 1895 and she is still using the name Stewart ????
Have Also looked for a death for John Connelly with no luck.
Found them on the 1891 census at Sweety Lane Doune..but can find nothing ater that ???
These Stewart's drive me nuts ::)
Can anyone help PLEASE.
patvp
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Hi Pat
Have you tried looking at the birth certs. of one of the Connolly children from the 1880/90s to see whether it shows place and date of marriage of parents?
Monica :)
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:) This looks like the marriage Pat:
1887 John Connelly and Maggie Stewart in Kilmadock ref. 362/00 0016
The children's births seem to be showing as Connelly from the general searches on SP for births.
Monica
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Possible death for John Connelly in 1893, Kilmadock, ref:362/00 0043, age 33 (he showed as age 32 in 1901).
Monica
Added: John's surname is showing as Connely (single L on the index)
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Hi Monica good to talk to you again ;D
Now if I can get a word in edgewise ;D Hmmm looks as tho'Patrick the eldest may have been illegitimate he was born in 1881 either that or he was from a previous relationship ??
I was going to check on the children's birth cert's but had run out of credits at SP so will have to wait until pension day this week LOL.
Do not know how come I have not checked the other siblings before now, must have had a memory lapse, these are more frequent at my age ::)
so am also looking for Isabella c1865 at Kilmadock and Duncan 1870 also Kilmadock, I know Isabella is home in the 1881 but missing after that and Duncan is home in the 1891 but am damned if I can find either of them in the 1901..and so we plod along.
Thank you so much for that information, as usual you have come up trumps..patvp
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Pat
This could be a marriage for Isabella:
1888 to John Balfour in Kilmadock (ref:362/00 0006)
And very possibly in the 1891:
John Balfour 31, engine fitter, b. Glasgow
Isabella Balfour 25, cotton rover, b. Thornhill, Perthshire
Walter Balfour 2, b. Kilmadock, Perthshire
Robert Balfour 1, b. Kilmadock, Perthshire
Robert Stewart 32, iron moulder, Kilmadock, Perthshire ....looks like brother Robert in case you were looking for him too ;)
Address: 150 Park St, Govan
Monica
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The Balfours in 1901:
John Balfour 41, engine fitter, b. Glasgow
Isabella Balfour 35, b. Thornhill, Perthshire
Robert Balfour 11, b. Deanston, Perthshhire
John Balfour 3, b. Glasgow
Address:6 Marlow St, Govan
Monica
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Terrific, and thanks as always Monica..HOW DO YOU DO THAT ;D will now check them out on SP at the end of the week, so very many thanks..it is now nearly 10pm in this neck of the woods and very hot and muggy and more rain predicted..no more please...!! am going to bed with the air-con on.
Once again thank you..patvp
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Think of us in Blizzard country - I have never seen a heavier snowfall in Central London as in the last 18 hrs - even the schools are shut :o My three have just come in from a snowball fight ;D For London children, they are in seventh heaven!
One last one for you...Duncan is still at home with parents in 1901:
Robert Stewart 77, blacksmith, b. Kincardine Perth
Jane Stewart 75, b. Kincardine Perth
Duncan Stewart 34, blacksmith, b. Kincardine Perth
John Stewart 28, blacksmith, b. Kincardine Perth
Daniel Robertson 31, visitor
Maggie Kenny48, servant
Duncan Fork 17, servant
Robert Maswell 10, nephew
Peter Maswell 3, nephew
Address: Kincardine Smithy
Monica
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Thought for a minute we had a break through, not the case, this Robert Stewart not mine..he died in 1898.
Dates and places of birth seem to vary.
between 1827/1828/1829 and 1831 as do places of birth the 1829 being Edinburgh and the other census Bannockburn Stirlingshire..have never been able to pin him down and have never found a birth for him, on his death cert it said his parents were Robert Stewart and Ann Denovan info given by son-in-law, so that could be wrong mores the pity.
Back to the drawing board
:-[ patvp
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Pat
I'm confused :-[ Was this family headed by Robert Snr.., the iron founder/ blacksmith, the wrong family - i.e the wrong Robert Snr.? He obviously died after 1901 from the census entry we have in Kircardine Smithy (was this in 1908 from your previous posts?). This Robert looks to have been married to Jane Ferguson according to their children's births, which connects with your research.
...But, you also say that your Robert died in 1898 in previous posts?
Monica
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Sorry for the confusion Monica, following in a nutshell, this is my Stewart family.
Robert Stewart m Jane Ferguson 1853 Glasgow.
Children -
Jane Stewart c1854 m James McKay (my g/g/grandparents)
John c 1855 - I know nothing of him.
Robert c1858 we have him up to 1891.
Annie c1860 m John Glen (she and her children with the Stewarts on the 1891 census.
Maggie c1862 m John Connelly then King.
Isabella c1865 m John Balfour.
Janet Ann c1867 m Peter McGregor Stewart
Duncan c1870 at home in 1891 after that unkown.
Jane Ferguson died 1891 Kilmadock info Robert Stewart.
Robert Stewart died 1898 Kilmadock info Peter McGregor Stewart.
1891 census includes apart from Robert Stewart and Jane Ferguson, Annie Glen with her family, Jane McKay daughter of James and Jane McKay, and another g/daughter Jane Brownlie c1884 Kilmadock whom I have not been able to find either ???
Have assumed they all came home as Jane Ferguson (mother) was either sick or dying.
As I said in previous posts about Robert Stewart, take your pick. as to date of birth or even place of birth..he will probably remain my brick wall.
See what you mean about snow - cousin Ian sent photo's this morning. Now am off to the Dr's more tests and x-rays..god I hate getting old LOL..patvp
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Hi Pat
Pity son John's birth from late 1855 was not registered until Jan 1856...thereby losing lots of info about about the parents :-\ Not that it will probably help, but just in case, what occupation showed on Robert's father, Robert, on his 1898 DC?
Monica
Hope Doctor goes well Pat :)
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Had the x-rays, now have to wait for results next week..ho-hum.
Re Robert Stewarts death cert, he is listed as occupation labourer although 1891 census he is an ïron dresser",
age at death 68 which would make date of birth 1830, widower of Jean/Jane Ferguson, parents Robert Stewart (crofter) deceased and Ann Stewart nee Denovan deceased, informant Peter Stewart son-in-law, description of death about noon at Deanston Factory, Deanston, Kilmadock.
May have a fiddle around this afternoon and see if I can find anymore.
Hope you are tucked up and warm LOL.
Regards patvp
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Hi Pat
I have tried to find maggie Stewart in a census by putting in her birthdate and place of birth as Thornhill but cant find her! Can you help point me in the right direction to find her eg in the 1871 census?
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Hello Patvp1.
Iam new to Rootschat and it was a friend who put me on to it
when she came across your query.
Margaret Stewart. married John Connelly then James King she then
married Alexander Brownlee .
But before she married she had a daughter Jean/Jeannie,(father unknown)
although on Jeannie's marriage certificate it has Alexander as reputed father as by then she had taken the name Brownlee.
Jeannie was my Grandmother she married my Grandfather Alexander Lauder in 1903.
I to have found it difficult to find traces of Maggie and John.
There were 2 Connelly families living in Sweety Lane (Graham street)
Doune ,and i am positive they were related in some way.
If i can be of any more help let me know.
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Monks09
I think I know you! Are you "Monkey"?
Still got a bike? ;-)
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Hi Monk and Hi Val..do we have a family connection here ?? ;D
Monk - if you have read the previous postings you would know by now that we are some sort of kin ??? as my g/gran was Maggie Connelly's (and the other names) elder sister.
Looked for Jeannie/Jane Brownlie, have her with her grandparents Robert and Jane in 1891 and then with her aunt Janet Ann and Janets husbane Peter McGregor Stewart in 1901..and that of course is as far back as we can go..any information you have would be great.
From a very wet Queensland..all the best
Pat
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There is a definate connection Pat, just don't ask me to work it out :-)
Trying to do my tree is headache enough.
I did have a copy of Jeannie's birth certificate but i think my cousin has it
now.
I will need to try and get a hold of him sometime soon as he is older than mean and spent a lot of time staying with my Grandparents in Deanston.
My family haven't moved far .My dad was born in Sweety Lane (Graham st) in 1919 . then they moved to Deanston, my dad worked in the Cotton mill from when he left school 1932/33 until it closed 64/65 (with a break during the war serving with the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders)
He met my mum there and they lived in Deanston for the rest of thier lives,
mum passed away 2000 and dad in 2003.
I myself lived in Deanston till i got married in 1990 and have lived in Doune ever since.
There are desendants of Margaret and James King still within the area, and infact we stayed just along the street from each other in Deanston.
It's funny coming across you at this time.
In Doune we have a local Information Centre (it's independantly run ,nothing to do with Scottish tourist board) and they get a lot of people contacting them trying to trace family etc.
Recently Nigel Bishop who is the main man in the centre recieved a letter from a lady who is coming to Scotland next month to trace her Connelly
family who were one of the family's living in Sweety Lane.
She is from Toorak, Victoria.
I have contacted her and she and i both think there is a connection with both Connelly families in Sweety Lane but not sure how.
Anyway must go it's 08.30 here and i have to get the wee fella up to school.
Will Keep in Touch
Kenny
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Hi Kenny - Do have a copy of Jeanie birth cert she was born 17th Sept 1883 (illegitimate) so was registered as Jane Stewart but there is a RCE where action was taken to name the father Alexander Brownlie (miner) and I can't read his blasted address. Have sent you a PM with my e.mail adds so then may be I can send you a copy. Can find no record of Maggie and Alexander Brownlie being married ??? and her death cert only names husband Connelly and King ??
Now all I need to find out is where on earth Robert Stewart was born ??? Maggies father.... could be Bannockburn or St Cuthberts Edinburgh, parents Robert Stewart and Ann Denovan married St Ninians ...my brick wall.
All very interesting..all the best Pat
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Kenny - just got the 1891 census of Scotlands People and there are a swag of Connelly's in Sweetie Lane, when I have your e.mail adds will see if I can send ::)
Pat
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Where is Sweetie Lane?
Yes Pat, Kenny and I know each other although we havent seen each other for 20 years!
I have Connellys connected to my tree too - lived in Bridge of Allan but were linked to Kincardine ancestors by marriage.. I'll check it out and get back to you in case there is a connection to yours.
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Hi Val and Kenny - Have the strangest feeling we are all conected in some way..this will probably come out in the wash. Kenny, didn't you have some correspondence re family with Jack Steel in Canada, he is also Stewart/Ferguson connection (have not heard from him in an age) also my dear ;D :o :P that's my grannie on the bike..LOL someone did tell me what make it was but honestly can't remember. Meanwhile thanks for the e.mail adds and I will be in touch. Sub tropical rain here in Queensland so it gives me an excuse to sit on the computer not that I need an excuse ::)
Take care..Pat
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Hi Monica - If you are reading this ???
Yep am getting a lot of information..LOL
x-rays not as good as expected..may have to give up smoking :o or emphysema will escalate ho-hum
Regards Pat
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Pat, do what the doctors say and take care :)
Monica
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Thanks Monica...Pat
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Pat
I have just added some bits to your tree on Ancestry!You know that Maggie Stewart married John Connelly and then James King. They had a son called John King in about 1897, according to the 1901 census when he is living with his parents and 2 half brothers Robert and James Connolly at 4 Graham St in Doune.
Maggies second husband James King (bap 13 May 1869 Doune, Kilmadock) is the son of James King and Mary Connolly, both of whom are from Ireland. (b abt 1835 and 1832 respectively)
I am thinking this is where the connection Kenny mentions comes in - perhaps Maggies first husband was a relation of her second husbands mother??
To add to the confusion, Mary Connolly appears to have a whole batch of other kids going by the name Welsh or Walsh - they appear on the censuses as you will see... but I havent figured out how to add them to your tree yet.
What a lot of shenanigans :o..... and folks from Doune and Deanston are still like that, eh, Kenny? ;) ;)
Us folks from Callander used to wonder if there was something in the water ;D
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Pat. Funny how you can be doing something then all of a sudden you remember a small detail about something.
Just recalled John (Jackie) Connelly who stayed in Dunblane and passed away a few months after my dad.
My dad used to say they were cousins, and the rare occasions i spoke to Jackie he would tell me of the times when his family would visit Deanston they went go to my Gran & Grandpa's.
He was about 7yrs younger than my dad, but i don't know who his parents were i assume his father was either Patrick,Robert or James.
Kenny
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G'day Pat. Archibald Brownlie was already married to a Mary Isabella Hays
when Jeannie was born.
So right enough Maggie and he were not married and it looks like
she has had to tell who Jeannie's father was for her marriage to
my Grandad.
Archibald died at Braes of Boquapple farm in August 1918.
The farm is just outside Thornhill in the Parish of Norrieston , but in those days it came under the parish of Kilmadock.
Kenny
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Another mystery solved
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Hi Pat
Read you are moving house, so you won't be on line for a wee while,
but i met Isobel King (one of the decendants of the Magaret Stewart ,James King
marriage) and she has throwen another name in to the line.
She couldn't be 100% of christian name but surname is Dalgleish.
She is giving me a call sometime to come to my house to see what i have and show me what she has done , although she says it's been 10yrs since she done anything with her family tree.
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This is believed to be John King on the right and his half brother
James Connelly on left.
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Nice pic kenny.
So how is this John King related to the John King we both know?
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Hi Kenny and Val - Yes am back on line !!! it ONLY took nearly four weeks to flick a switch :P that was for phones and internet.
As yet have not unloaded files etc so am way behind...
Had some work to do on Charlotte Hall's family (my gran) fro Clackmannanshire, but will get back to the Stewart and Ferguson families later (I hope)
All the best Patvp
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Hi Val. From what Johns sister Isobel has told me, this John King is
their Grandad
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I have Margaret (Maggie) Stewart at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=doigk&id=I52586. I also have a large number of the Connelly's on the file, some of whom went to Youngstown, Ohio.
Yield not to adversity,
Ken Doig, Bass Lake, California www.doig.net
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Hi Ken Doig - Another oddity ??? re my g/gran Jean Stewart born abt 1857 daughter of Robert Stewart and jean Ferguson, have just accessed the 1911 census (she married james McKay in 1875) always known as Jean or Jane, now on this census she is down as HELEN.J.S.McKay, the address is correct (Cairnstone farm cottages) plus age, children etc all check out..but HELEN ?? am trying to double check..thought you may have some idea.
As usual, all the best Patvp
Re King/Connelly's will check and get back..Pat
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Had to look up a few things again - here's what I have..
Margaret Stewart - dob 1862, Thornhill Kincardine.
Parents - Robert Stewart & Jean Ferguson.
Married John Connelly 1887 at Kilmadock GRO362/00 0016
Resident 1891 Kilmadock.
Married James King 1895 Kilmadock.
Residence 1901 Kilmadock.
Died 20 Oct 1941 Kilmadock.
Connelly children - Patrick 1881 poss Margaret not mother.
Janet Stewart/Brownlie 1883 (illegit)
Robert 1889 born Doune
James 1891 born Doune.
Margaret and James King - son John born 1897 Doune.
Margaret died 20 Oct 1941 informant JamesConnelly (son) present. age 79 widow of 1. John Connelly (general labourer) 2. James King (general labourer) cause coronary thrombosis. parents my still elusive Robert Stewart (decd) & Jane Stewart m.s. Ferguson (decd).
GRO362/00 0015 at Kilmadock 5th division.
regards Pat
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Hi,
I have an update on James McKay / Jane Stewart at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=doigk&id=I43669. Do you know when and where she died?
Ken
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Hi Ken - My g/gran Jean Stewart/McKay died 27 Aug 1948, Dunblane. GRO348/00 0031 age 96. Informant was George Morrison son-in-law, address at the time Ramoyle.
Am still trying to find out where she is buried ??
Regards Patvp
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I would reckon Pat Dunblane cemetary. Do you have an address for Ramoyle which is a street in Dunblane that would have been the main route in from the North before the present road, we lived in a flat there when we first got married
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Hi Kenny - It's got me stumped..cannot find anything in memento mori for Dunblane..any idea who to contact ??James her husband died 1916 at Meldrum Kincardine and can't find anything for him either thought they mayhave been buried together..BUT where ???
Regards Pat
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Only thing i can think of Pat is to try Stirling Council Cemetarys dept I would also try Perth (Perth & Kinross) as we come under Stirling now but pre 1976 we were under Perth & Kinross council.
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Hi all - Still looking for birthplace of my elusive Robert Stewart. To recap...Died 1898 (GRO362/00 0018, parents listed as Robert Stewart & Ann Denovan, they married 1821 St Ninians.
1829 - Robert is a "tanner" adds 166 Canongate, Edinburgh, info on birth cert of son Duncan born 1829 (GRO685/02/0340 0337) his sister Jessie Graham Henderson Stewart born 1833 (GRO685/02 0340 0585) both baptized St Cuthberts...
Robert Stewart snr born 1790 Campsie, Stirling.
Begining to wonder if I am not barking up the wrong tree (pun) even tried using the Denovan surname in case he was illegit..nothing doing ??? have no idea where to look next, still an on-going mystery.
All the best. Patvp
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Hi all - Still looking for birthplace of my elusive Robert Stewart. To recap...Died 1898 (GRO362/00 0018, parents listed as Robert Stewart & Ann Denovan, they married 1821 St Ninians.
1829 - Robert is a "tanner" adds 166 Canongate, Edinburgh, info on birth cert of son Duncan born 1829
Hi Pat,
Probably won't help much but have you tried the variant Stuart & also Donovan for surname searches as whoever registered the deaths may not have known the correct spelling ???
Annie
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Yep did all that ;D going nuts here ;D ;D
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Hi Pat,
Can we have a summary please.
Sorry too much to read through but..........
Robert son of Robert Stewart & Ann Denovan
Parents married 1821......
Brother Duncan b 1829 (am I correct with that) ???
Sister Jessie Graham Henderson b 1833
There's a huge gap in the birth of Duncan from marriage date (8 yrs)............... ::)
Do you have any other siblings for Robert, Duncan & Jessie ???
What years do think he was born between (going by age on marriage, census & death)
Where do census records have him born ???
Sorry for all the questions but having it all in one place would help ;)
Annie
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Hi Annie - Going on census records Robert could have been born anywhere between 1826 and 1831.
1861 states born Edinburgh, 1871 born Bannockburn,1881 Bannockburn, 1891 Bannockburn. Cannot understand the fact that Duncan 1829 And Jessie 1833 are the only two on Scotlands People registered to Robert Stewart & Ann Denovan and both bap at St Cuthberts can find no other children born to these two (would be lovely if there were) Have checked Stirling area (no go) .
As I put Robert (Snr) in 1829 is at 166 Canongate Edinburgh and is a tanner by trade, that comes up on Duncan & Jessie bap at St Cuthberts. Unless Robert snr was married before he married Ann Denovan??Could be way off the mark..there is a Robert Stewart born 26 Sep 1826, St Cuthberts but the mother is Elizabeth Reid ::) may be grasping at straws here ;D
So you see the dilemma how can someone not know there g/g/grandfathers birth, feel like a dog chasing it's tail ::)
All the best Patvp (hope someone can help with this on-going thingy..
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there is a Robert Stewart born 26 Sep 1826, St Cuthberts but the mother is Elizabeth Reid ::)
I wouldn't gloss over that one....................extra marital & all that ??? ;D
Names, date & area all fit nicely :P
Possibly brought up by Anne as her son........it did happen ???
Annie
ADDED.........Have you found a marriage for Elizabeth, info. on census etc. to weigh things up..........as in not married when Robert was born :-\