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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: stegaroo on Monday 02 February 09 11:42 GMT (UK)
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Has anybody any information about a semi-permenant gypsy camp in the New Ferry/Rock Ferry/Birkenhead area of Wirral/Cheshire in the early 1900's? The brick wall i have been running up against with my wifes maternal side of her family seems to be because the grandmother, as i have recently found, came from this gypsy camp.
I really have no idea where to start looking in this direction. I'm hoping some experienced hunters may be able to point me down the right road.
With thanks
Ken
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Hi Ken
I may be able to help if you can give me the grandmother's name.
Many of the Gypsies who camped in Birkenhead in the 1900s also used to spend the summer season in Blackpool - which is where I've made a particular study of the families.
Look forward to hearing more.
Sharon
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Hi, had to wait for my other half to come home to get the info from her.
Her g/mothers name was Isabel Kay, i have not got her date of birth but am told she was born in 1913. She married a Frederick Taylor (my grandfather) who was born around 1910. He was from Birkenhead.
Cheers
Ken
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Hi Ken
I'm sorry to say that Kay doesn't feature at all among the surnames of the Birkenhead/Blackpool/Liverpool Gypsy families I've researched.
What about Isabel's father's name and occupation from her marriage certificate? That might give another clue.
Sharon
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Hi Sharron
Thanks for your help, i'll try and get my hands on the marriage certificate and see where that leads me. I'll get back to you if i have any relevent info.
Thanks
Ken
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Me again,
I meant to ask, do you know anything about where in birkenhead they would stay/make camp? Wsa there a designated camp or would they stay where they could?
Thanks again
Ken
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Hi Ken
In the period we're talking about, there weren't any authority-designated camping sites: the Gypsies would pull onto any spare wasteland they could find - usually the land that no-one else wanted to live on or do anything with.
If they found a likely spot, they would often return to it regularly year after year. More elderly family members might even stay at that place all year round, while their children were on the road. One such place in and around Birkenhead was at Green Lane, Tranmere. I understand it was an abandoned brickworks.
Look forward to hearing more once you get the marriage cert.
Sharon
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Cheers Sharon, thanks for the help.
Ken
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Hi, i have been searching for a while and am quite new to the internet. i have been wondering about my family's history. my grandfather came from the slate mines in trws fynedd, snowdonia to work on the mersey tunnel. his ancestors originally from wexford in ireland. but my granmother's family came from a gypsie camp in lower tranmere.. I'm trying to find out where and when it was and is there any pictures. and any other information would be grateful.
i'm confused about my great grandmothers name. i was led to believe it was Barbra Supphire Brown and she worked in the Royal Standard House 'pub' in Rock Ferry and was quite a well known lady in the area. but there have been other names floated around for years.
i would be most grateful for any help, thanks Lou x
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Hi,Only just found this website.Iam trying to research my husbands family tree.My husbands grandmother was called Gertrude Taylor,born about 1884.She had a sister called Tidloo,we think that is how it is spelled.She was married to a man called Horace.I remember in the sixties they used to live in a caravan in the gypsy lane in Birkenhead,Wirral.Iwould love to hear from anyone who has any information.Thanks Martha 1924
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Hello i am from a Gypsies family the locks also the Boswell we have been trying to find out information but can't find any my nan was married to Terence idris lock they had my mum and 7 other children but he died in 1998 :'( his dad was called idris lock and he was married to margret ,idris father an mother were joseph lock an dorah boswell joseph father an mother was robert lock an sophar lock if any 1 has any photos an any information please contact methanks.
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Hello i am from a Gypsies family the locks also the Boswell we have been trying to find out information but can't find any my nan was married to Terence idris lock they had my mum and 7 other children but he died in 1998 :'( his dad was called idris lock and he was married to margret ,idris father an mother were joseph lock an dorah boswell joseph father an mother was robert lock an sophar lock if any 1 has any photos an any information please contact methanks.
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Hello i am from a Gypsies family the locks also the Boswell we have been trying to find out information but can't find any my nan was married to Terence idris lock they had my mum and 7 other children but he died in 1998 :'( his dad was called idris lock and he was married to margret ,idris father an mother were joseph lock an dorah boswell joseph father an mother was robert lock an sophar lock if any 1 has any photos an any information please contact methanks.
Hi gypsyjac85,
You might want to have a look at these and once you have posted three times on rootschat you will be able to contact Pughy by PM.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,310556.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=307159.0
Regards
Lyne
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Hi, i have been searching for a while and am quite new to the internet. i have been wondering about my family's history. my grandfather came from the slate mines in trws fynedd, snowdonia to work on the mersey tunnel. his ancestors originally from wexford in ireland. but my granmother's family came from a gypsie camp in lower tranmere.. I'm trying to find out where and when it was and is there any pictures. and any other information would be grateful.
i'm confused about my great grandmothers name. i was led to believe it was Barbra Supphire Brown and she worked in the Royal Standard House 'pub' in Rock Ferry and was quite a well known lady in the area. but there have been other names floated around for years.
i would be most grateful for any help, thanks Lou x
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Hi I believe her name as Barbars Safaia Brown. I am reading Safaia from her death cert but the writing id difficult. She married James Neil and lived in Bebington Wirral. She was born 12th January 1912 and died in December 1973.
She had 1 sister, Elizabeth, my grandmother. She was very beautiful with dark hair and eyes
Her mother I think was Caroline and they lived in Green Lane in Tranmere Birkenhead
Caroline's 1st husband was killed in the 1st world war and she later Married a "Sudlow" and had many Children
I hope this helps you
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hi i am excited to discover my granfather was a romany who moved to birkenhead ,rock ferry in the early 20th century.my mothers brother has told me quite a bit,but i am extremey interested to find out more . his name was joseph taylor born 1900 .he married a mary jordan in 1925 in birkenhead .uncle joe didnt know his grandparents christian names ,but does know they lived in the green lane flats.he said his grandfather was very rarely there.he said they had 21 children all together.apparently the tradition was the children moved out of the family home at the age of 12,to start there own lives.he did tell me the names of some of my grandads brothers though .ted ,martin frank bill and who was known locally as paddy handcart .he sold papers at the woodside railway station
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i now discovered my great granfathers name was moses taylor and his wife was sarah
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Hi
Does anyone know if there were any Griffin's at the camp in Birkenhead. Can't find out anything about my great x 3 grandmother before she married in 1878. The 1881 census states that she was born in Birkenhead in 1855 but I can't find her on the 1861 or 1871 census. Her name before she married was Annie Griffin.
Thanks
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Her g/mothers name was Isabel Kay, i have not got her date of birth but am told she was
born in 1913. She married a Frederick Taylor (my grandfather) who was born around 1910.
He was from Birkenhead. Cheers Ken
Sorry that your query was taken over although I know they thought it was a general topic thread...
Did you find the correct marriage and occupation of fathers???
Although old and you may already have this marriage & info I'll post :
FHS has: a Frederick Taylor Age 30y father: Edward Spouse an Isabel Kay Age 30y Father: Henry
Marr 29 Apr 1933 St Paul, Tranmere, Cheshire, Eng
Although ages don't fit, there are these two which do appear to be the above couple...But
ordering that marriage should let you know if this matches up.
The 1911 census Reddish, Cheshire, Eng Enum District 10 Reg Dist Stockport
John Henry Kay c.1876 Reddish, Lancs Brusher in Silk Finishing
wife: Lena Elizabeth Kay c. 1874 Longsight, Lancashire
son: Henry Kay 1907 Reddish dau: "Isobel Kay" 1909 Reddish
Also in household her father
Valentine Charles Hubbert c. 1844 Manchester, Lancashire
F.I.L. to Head: Widowed Occ: Roller Skin WAREHOUSEMAN
Henry may have used his first name John to not confuse name repetition for son Henry.
John Henry Kay & Lena Elizabeth Hibbert Sept. quarter 1905 Stockport
Likely the children's births registered Stockport - 1908 Isabel Kay & a Henry 1906
Looking for the marriage brought up a wee family tree for them...If not your wife's contribution, she may have a bit more family to collaborate with?
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/L1HS-5YF
Might be marriage on FreeBMD Henry KAY & Amelia DAVIES Jun quarter 1874 Manchester district
Heayberd Hibberd Hubbert Talor Tayler Tailer Taylar
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James Edward Taylor Chr: 15 September 1909 Rock Ferry, Cheshire, Eng
Parents Edward Taylor, Jessie Taylor
Edward Taylor Chr: 01 May 1903 Bebington Road Wes Meth Chapel, New Ferry, Cheshire, Eng
Father Edward Taylor Mother Jessie Taylor
1911 census Birkenhead, Tranmere Birkenhead, Cheshire, Eng Enum Dist 25
Doc Type 3 Page 1 Piece/Folio 469 Schedule Type 235
Edward Williams 56 Osnestry, Shropshire general labourer Head/ Co Habit(at)ing
Jessie Taylor 36 Thornton Hoagh, Cheshire says married /Married/Co Habit(at)ing
children as boarders:
Emma Taylor 12 - 1899 Thornton Hoagh, Cheshire Housemaid/Domestic
Frederick Taylor 8 - 1903 New Ferry, Cheshire
John Henry Taylor 6 - 1905 Tranmere, Cheshire
James E Taylor 1-1910 Tranmere, Cheshire
Interesting head of household!!!
1901 Winstanley Road / Lower Bebington, Cheshire, Eng Reg Dist: Wirral
Page 34 Piece/Folio 54 Sched Type 182
!!!Anne Kay 65 1836 Thornton Hough, Cheshire Widowed Lives on own means
boarders: Jessie Taylor 26 - 1875 Thornton Hough, Cheshire &
children born Thornton Hough: Cheshire Marjory Taylor 8 Elsie Taylor 5 Emma Taylor 3
Ellen Hession 49 Glasgow Scotland John Hession 21 Flint Ann Hession 8 Widnes, Lancs
Samuel Fryer 40 Liverpool
Hopefully there might be some details on the birth certs re: the father Edward, as further hunting found these 2 christenings: Mother Jessie Taylor Father's Name / none
Marjory Ann Taylor Chr 20 Aug 1893 Thornton-Hough, Cheshire, Eng / Thornton Mayow
Elsie Taylor Chr 6 Sept 1896 Thornton Mayow, Cheshire, Eng
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Looking for the daughter Emma's christening, I found an auntie instead...
Emma Taylor Chr 24 Sept 1868 Thornton-Hough / Thornton Mayow, Cheshire, Engl
Parents Charles Taylor & Ann
and also Jessie & her mother Ann & brother Frederick in 1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q272-P19J
also in her household is a William "Hay" 43 Tarbock, Lancashire, England
Although not stated her mother was likely the Anne Kay Jessie boarded with on census
Marriage Jun quarter 1881 William Kay & Ann Taylor Wirral district vol. 8a p. 637
All this has yet to be proven as original info was mixed...
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For those who still need some information on their families just hit the »Travelling People » link above... and start your own post by hitting the "Start New Topic" button. Make the heading (subject line) clear as to your basic surname searches. Less likely to be seen as a general topic that way... Enjoy!
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Hi,
The family members found and described in the posts from JJ are from my family - Jessie Taylor 1874, Frederick Taylor, Elsie Taylor 1896/(my great grandmother who I knew), Emma Taylor, Ann Kay etc. If you want to know about the. , zi may be able to help. I would be interested to know if you found a connection with the original people being researched (Isabel Kay etc) and the Romany Gypsy camp.
Regards,
Nicola
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Martha1924 alot of our family stopped on the camp at birkenhead and the one at thingwall Road and Liverpool. Boswells, Robinsons, Messhams and Locks. My dad remembers tiddles and horace and they were very friendly with a friend of my dad's called Charlie Kelly but he used the name Charlie Leek. He was a car dealer in birkhead but had come off travelling people originally. My dad only mentioned tiddles and horace last week. Also, my great grandfather was in wagons on yard in Liverpool with his parents and siblings along with his aunt carnation boswell who was married to duvel lock.