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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Gregorsmum on Wednesday 04 February 09 22:49 GMT (UK)
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So Roderick Evans (1860) married Annie Isabella Davies on 20/11/1897- she is listed as 25 so 1872 birth. In 1901 census she is Annie Isabel Evans aged 27 so 1874 birth - when son appears in 1903 certificate says Isabella Evans formerly Davies. Their youngest daughter, still alive, claims she was Isabella but changed to Annie because husband could not say it and that surname was Davis. She was from Worcestershire.. How do I find her birth? Tried every combination of surnames and first names and dates of birth - and been stumped.
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Per freebmd
Births September qtr 1872
DAVIES Isabella Dudley 6c 104
Births September qtr 1874
DAVIES Isabella Bromyard 6a 520
You presumably have her with her parents on the 1881 census so could consider the following option
Search by GRO
If you have done your own searching in the GRO indexes and have found more than one reference to the name you are researching, or are unsure which is the entry you require, the GRO offer reference checking online.
The charge is £7 for action on the first entry, which includes the cost of the certificate, and £3 for checking each subsequent reference against the information you have provided. You have the option of asking them to either stop at the first reference which agrees with your information or to check all references
You must give them one piece of information that you are sure will appear on the certificate for example, the exact date of the event or a parent(s) name(s). You must fill in the reference checking sheet which is accessed by pressing the reference checking button near the bottom of the page, and fill in all the fields that you would like the entry to be checked against before
you press the 'Submit' button. A certificate will only be issued if the entry they check matches the checking point you give them.
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Carol - Thank you very much for your hints - I had those two births but they don't match her father's name on her marriage certificate and cannot find him or her on 1881 census. Have tried 1871 too for him! hey ho .. will try again.
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Who does she give as father on marriage?
Who are the fathers of these two girls that you have the birth certs for?
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Hi - Her father on her marriage certificate is James Davies - do not have birth certificates for the other two just looked up variations of Isabel, Isabella and both Davies and Davis between 1872 and 1874 - and could not find one in Worcestershire.
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Does James Davies have a stated occupation?
What names witnessed?
Pauline
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Where did the marriage take place?
where were they in 1901?
what's the name & birthplace of the 1903 boy?
when & where was Youngest daughter born (DON'T name her)!
Pauline
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Witnesses were Henry Evans and Mary Evans - from his side - marriage was at Tabernacle Chapel in Llandovery. In 1901 he was in Abergwili near Carmarthen as an insurance agent - on his own - she ( Annie Isabel now) was with his mum Elizabeth Evans and baby daughter in Trewaun Uchaf, Llansawel. Son (my grandad) was born in 1903 in Llandilofawr - as were rest of family.
Thanks!
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& Grandad's name?
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So sorry - Thomas Evans born 1903 in Llandilofawr - other kids Albert 1906, Gwyn 1908 and youngest was Muriel 1911 - all Llandilofawr. Thanks
Family insist she came from Worcestershire and went back to live in Leighsinton area after she was widowed - and wher eshje is understood to have died - cannot find death record either - under Isabella Evans, Isabel Evans, Annie Evans. No-one quite sure when but mum recalls her well and she was born in 1932 - so I guessed about 9/10 years later as a starting point.
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just looked up variations of Isabel, Isabella and both Davies and Davis between 1872 and 1874 - and could not find one in Worcestershire.
The 2 births I showed above were both in Worcestershire
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/wor.htm
I had those two births but they don't match her father's name on her marriage certificate
This gives the impression that you had bought both the 1872 and 1874 birth certs but the father wasn't James
If you don't have the birth certs - how do you know the father(s) weren't James
Is it possible she was illegitimate and made up a fathers name for marriage purposes?
There is an 1881 entry for an Annie Davis aged 8 b Doddenham living with grandmother Mary. There is an unmarried daughter Fanny aged 29 in the household
Does James Davies have a stated occupation?
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I am so sorry if I gave the wrong impression there about the certificates - I am very new to this and only joined this site this week so please excuse that slip. James Davies is a General Labourer.
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Hi
It's not a problem - we just need to have all the facts so we can decide how best to help you - particularly with a surname like Davies.
Don't worry - we will do our best to find her for you. I know it must seem like we are giving you the 3rd degree - but it's with the very best of intentions
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Family insist she came from Worcestershire and went back to live in Leighsinton area after she was widowed
I have just been looking at the 1901 census entry.
(RG13 5102 25 1, Wales)
and see that she gives her place of birth as Worcestershire. So it is not just a family story that she was born there.
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Of the two Isabella births that Carole found, this looks like the Dudley one in 1891 (unfortunately doesnt show fathers name!)-
RG12 2408 19 31
Aston Birmingham
Ann M Davies 57 widow
Elizabeth 23 dtr Umbrella maker
Sarah 25 dtr Button maker
Isabella 18 Umbrella maker
Susannah 15 dtr
all bn Dudley
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1881 doesnt give her father either!
RG11 2878 38 26
31 Vauxhall Street Dudley
Ann M Davis 47 widow Charwoman
Mary A 20 dtr domestic servant
MAria 18 dtr "
Sarah 15 dtr Daily servant
Charlotte 13 dtr
Isabella 9
Susannah 5
Elizabeth 2 mths MaryAnn's daughter
all born Dudley.
(What a helpful enumerator, listing baby Elizabeth specifically as Mary Ann's daughter, rather than the more correct but less helpful "grandaughter")
Looking at the children's ages, dad MUST have been around in 1871 .......
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.... but I cant find any of them in 1871, under any name.
So havent ruled the Dudley one in or out, as I had hoped.
Grrr
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Isabella 9
IGI extracted baptism:
Isabella DAVIES
born 5 Jun 1872
baptised 4 July 1872 St Thomas, Dudley
Daughter of John DAVIES and Ann Maria
Also baptised on the same day were sisters Ann Maria (b 1862) and Mary Ann (b 1860).
I guess this rules out this family if you're looking for a father called James.
Anna
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And dad was around in 1897 for the marriage - so does that rule Dudley out as mother is listed there as a widow?
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And dad was around in 1897 for the marriage - so does that rule Dudley out as mother is listed there as a widow?
Do you know that he was still alive in 1897 (was he e.g. a witness to the marriage?). The fact that somebody is not stated to be deceased on a marriage certificate is not conclusive by any means that they were alive. But if they're a witness, then they're definitely alive!
Anna
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The 1874 Bromyard birth may correspond with a 7-yr-old Isabell Davies in 1881 - helpfully living in Bromyard itself but birthplace rather confusingly given as "City, Worcester".
Unfortunately her father is a wine merchant & grocer named Thomas S. Davies, so she doesn't look promising: RG11/2601/35/22.
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Oh I did not know that about marriage certificates. The two others I have happen to have "deceased" by one of the father's names so I assumed ( I know now a fatal error!) that that would be consistent. I am so grateful for all your help so far - it is a real mystery!
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Hi,
How about this,
Marriage
James DAVIES Jun Q 1873 Ledbury 6a 899
Alice PINGREE with same details.
Ledbury Registration District crosses the Herefordshire/Worcestershire border,
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ledbury.html
Isabella Annie DAVIES
Christening: 18 OCT 1874 Bishops Frome, Hereford
Father: James DAVIES
Mother: Alice
Indexed as Joseph but looks like James,
1881 RG11/2582 f.44 p.10 Mathon, Worcestershire
Warner Cot
James DAVIS Head M 29 Farm Labourer Bosbury Hereford
Alice Wife M 30 Suckley Wor
Isabella Daur 5 Scholar Bishops Frome
Prestwood Son 4 " " " "
William Son 1 Mathon Wor
1891 RG12/2323 f.38 p.10 Leigh, Worcestershire
Castle Green
Isabella A DAVIS Servt S 17 General Servant Domestic Herefordshire Froome
Living in the household of Joseph ESSEX.
All the named places seem to within 10 miles of each other, so maybe technically she was born in Herefordshire but came from Worcestershire :P :)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places
Regards
Daisy
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Hi Daisy
That is fantastic - thank you! There does seem to be a difficulty pinning down her exact age but I take it that is fairly common? I had found the same one as you when she was a servant in the Essex household but what yu have gien me pins it down more certainly.
The information you have given me and from her age on her marriage certificate she was born either in 1872/ 74 or 6 ! Suppose need to try and find a birth certificate now
Thanks again for your efforts.
Penny
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Here's brother Prestwood - born in 1876, so she must be 1875 or earlier (especially if she was baptised in 1874!):
Prestwood Sydney DAVIS
Jun 1876 Bromyard 6a 562
Anna :)
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Hi,
I would think the registration found by CaroleW looks the most likely,
DAVIES Isabella Sep Q 1874 Bromyard 6a 520
I'm not at all sure about the 'Isabella' with father 'Thomas S' DAVIES in 1881, I think she might be,
Mabel Helen S DAVIES Mar Q 1874 Worcester 6c 337
Mabel Helen Scarlett DAVIES
Christening Date: 26 Feb 1874
Christening Place: Worcester, Worcestershire
Father's Name: Henry Scarlett DAVIES
Mother's Name: Jane HICKEN
This seem to be her family,
1871 RG10/3049 f.20 p.34 Tything of Whistones, Worcestershire
York House
Henry S DAVIES Head M 32 Grocer's Shopman Leominster Herefordshire
Jane H Wife M 34 Worcester
Leonora E S Daur 7 Scholar "
Florence J S Daur 1 "
1881 RG11/2601 f.35 p.22 Bromyard, Herefordshire
Broad Street
Thomas S. DAVIES Head M 42 Wine merchant & Grocer Hereford Leominster
Jane T Wife M 38 " wife Worcester City
Leonora E Daur U 17 Scholar " "
Florence S Daur 11 " " "
Lydia C Daur 9 " " "
Isabell Daur 7 " " "
Mary E. WAKEFIELD Ass U 21 Grocers Assistant " "
James HOLLAND App U 15 Grocers Apprentice " Elmbridge
Louisa HANCOX Serv U 15 General Servant Domestic " Kidderminster
1891 RG12/2069 f.31 p.19 Bromyard, Herefordshire
Town: The Capyards
Broad Street
(wine stores)
Henry Scarlett DAVIES Head W 52 Wine & Spirit Merchant Hereford Leominster
Florence Jenney Scarlett Daur S 21 Worcester Claines
Lydia Clara Scarlett Daur S 19 " "
Mable Helen Scarlett Daur S 17 " "
George Richard OSCOMAN Servt S 19 General Servant Hereford Bromyard
Hannah SHEPHERD Servt S 17 General Servant Domestic Worcester Lower Sapey
I think the 1881 could have been mistranscribed from the original returns.
Daisy
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Hi, My G-Grandfather was Sulgwyn Gomer which was Annie and Roderick's 3rd born. After Roderick died my grandfather moved to Surrey I'm wondering if Annie went to?
Caroline
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I wonder if Isabella/Annie went to live with her daughter Alice Daisy EVANS.
Isabella/Annie is on the 1939 register as Isabella so she is using that name then.
I found these deaths,
Isabella EVANS Dec Q 1951 Carmarthen 8a 265
Age: 77
and later,
Alice Daisy EVANS Dec 1980 Carmarthen 24 1687
DOB: 15 Nov 1899
Age: 81
so maybe this is something to look into :)
Regards,
Daisy
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FindMyPast has this burial,
27 Oct 1951
Parish: Llansawel, Carmarthenshire
Isabella EVANS
Age: 77
Her abode looks like Lleinau? Llansawel.
Daisy
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After further researching Isabella Davies/Evans was most definitely in 1946 in Ashford, Surrey with Sulgwyn Gomer Evans and his wife Sarah Jane (My G Grandparents) which is a most definite as its the same address my Grandfather put on the marriage certificate to my nan.
Question is is her home town Ashford, Surrey rather than Ashburton, Worcestershire?
Confused ancestor...