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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: kooky on Thursday 05 February 09 12:52 GMT (UK)
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Found the death for Hugh in the new Family Search pilot site for Irish BMDs.
He was my grandfather's brother.
I have now received the death cert. Hugh was a wheelwright. He was 57.[b.Glasgow 1878]
Hugh was married to Margaret.
They lived at 31,St. Kevin's Square, Bray, Co. Wicklow.
I would like to find out the following:-
Margaret's maiden name.
Date of marriage [Hugh was single in 1901 when he was in the navy.]
If there were any children.
Would there be electoral rolls for Bray in 1935?
Is it possible to find a death announcement in a local paper?
Has anyone any ideas?
Kooky
I have looked in FreeBMD and Scotlands People without success for a marriage in England and Wales.
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Marriages are available on the familysearch pilot - If they were married in Bray the registration district is Rathdown.
The Wicklow People is the local newpaper that would cover that time - this is in the National Library in Dublin on microfilm - but not on line anywhere that I know of.
The Irish Times have a good online archive - even though it's a national paper it does not include many marriages for outside Dublin.
The census for Wicklow is due on-line sometime this year - maybe that will provide some clues if they were living there in 1911.
I dont know of any electoral register access - but if I find anything I'll post a link. I have ancestors in Bray also - so these would be usefull to me also if these show up.
Shane
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Shane, thank you for your interest!
Kooky
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To further this search I would like to look at the Irish 1911 census for Wicklow. Does anyone know when this will be on line?
Kooky
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Not sure of date but Wicklow is the last county in Ireland to be added:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/about/futureplans.html
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Twas ever thus! 8)
Kooky
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hi
there's a Hugh A Kane married in Magherafelt district in 1913, according to the BMD site ... might be him.
You can look at the Electoral Rolls for most counties in the National Archive in Dublin - it's quite fiddly and you have to order the books in advance (or had to,when I last did it).
St Kevin's Square in Bray in Thoms Directory 1922 - just says U.D.C. dwellings -no names given.
regards eadaoin
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Magherafelt is in County Londonderry (now Northern Ireland) which is a considerable distance from Co. Wicklow.
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Thank you Eadaoin. I noticed that one! It's a birth!
Hugh's grandmother lived in Carrickasticken, Forkhill, Co. Armagh. His mother was born there and James, his younger bro. also.Hugh had been in the navy, so was presumably used to travelling about.
My late mother met him in the early 1930s, in England.
I might try and check out a Margaret in 1913.
I will not be in Dublin in the near future, I'm afraid.
Thanks aghadowey for your help.
Kooky
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While sorting out some of the mounds of paper in my 'study' I came across a scribbled note from my mother, of 31, St. Kevin's Square Bray.
This has further convinced me that I have the correct death cert. :)
Kooky
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Two Kanes from Baltinglass were killed in ww1, Michael and Patrick. Both were in the army.
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Thank you Enfield, I am not aware of those Kanes! Where is Baltinglass in relation to Bray?
Kooky
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Bray to Baltinglass ~ 70km by road
or about 50km (south west) if you go over the Wicklow mountains!
Shane
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Connection probably not likely then!
Kooky
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Another thought!
Where would Hugh be buried?
The Kanes were Protestant, sometimes Presbyterian.
Is there an MI list for Bray anywhere?
I have spent considerable time looking for a Margaret on the Familysearch Pilot site, so far without success.
A gravestone might offer more information.
Kooky
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did Hugh and Margaret have any children during the time they lived in Bray ?
there are a number of Kane births listed on the familysearch Irish Civil index in the district of Rathdown around the right time : http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable
A birth cert would give you Margaret's maiden name which should help in the marriage search.
Shane
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Thank you Shane, I do not know of any children. I will check out these births.
I have found one marriage for Hugh A. Kane, but have not yet matched a Margaret! She could of course have been a second marriage!
Kooky
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UPDATE
Found Hugh in 1911 census in Royal Naval Hospital, Gosport, Hampshire!
He was single and Leading carpenters crew.
What now?
Kooky
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I have found a death ref. for Margaret Kane, Rathdown, Mar. 1957 age 82 b. 1875.
This could be Hugh's wife.
Could I send for a copy of the entry in the register? I have all the relevant nos.
How much would this be? 4 euros is all I can see re. this. Do I need to add postage?
Would a 5 euro note cover it?
I am hoping the informant might be a child of the marriage, or other relative, which might give me a clue re Margaret's maiden name, or will her maiden name be in the entry?
Help!
Kooky
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If you include the full index details : name, record type (death), registration district, year/quarter, volume & page number a €5 note should cover it.
...Irish death certs dont include maiden names
Shane
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Thanks Shane. That was quick! :)
Kooky
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I have received Margaret's death entry.
The informant is Winifred O'Reilly daughter.
I do not think this one is correct. The only Winifred Kane I can find was b. 1899 :-\
As Hugh was single in 1901 and 1911. This is probably not she.
Also, it 's a shame that the entry just says widow. I was hoping it would tell me who her husband was!
Kooky
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I have now matched a Margaret Kelly to a Hugh Kane marriage in 1920. I cant just remember where :-[, but I have sent for the cert.
Probably won't appear before Christmas!
Kooky
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Received a marriage cert. for Hugh Kane. It is the wrong one!! :(
When I wrote I asked for the marriage of Hugh Kane and Margaret Kelly. The bride in the one I received is Elizabeth Deegan! :o The father and religion are wrong too!
How has this happened? When I found any marriages for Hugh between 1911[when he is in the 1911 census in the navy in Hampshire, and single] and 1935 when he died[I have his death cert. The informant is wife Margaret], I then looked for any Margarets, same quarter, same place. The only one to fit the criteria was Margaret Kelly.
Would there have been more than one couple on the same page?
I am so disappointed :'(
Kooky
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I have re-checked. For both Hugh and Margaret the refs were VOL 3, Page 313 and the other no. was the same too 101264 [film no?]
Do I need to ring to discuss this?
Kooky
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there are a few marriages (I believe between 4 and 6 ) on each page - so it's possible to get a false match, especially if you dont have the full name and surname for the bride.
Obviously the Margaret Kelly you found married someone else around the same time, and so appears on the same page as Hugh - but not the same marriage.
Shane
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Thank you for your swift and probably correct reply!
Back to the drawing board.
Kooky
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I had a look the index and can see that all three names (Hugh, Elizabeth & Margaret) have the same vital index details - registration district, quarter/year, volume & page. Since the GRO process these orders on the index details, rather than a search I presume there was a 50/50 chance as to whether they would send you the Kane or the Kelly match... at least you have ruled out a possibility.
What areas of Ireland do you think they could have married ?
Shane
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Thank you again for your interest. When Hugh died in 1935, he was living in Bray.
My father was born in Bray in 1910, and appears on the 1911 census with Robert Henry, his father who was Hugh's older brother.
Although Hugh was born in Glasgow, he joined the navy, and I do not know if he ever returned. His parents died in 1904 and 1918.
His grandmother lived in Armagh, but she too had died by 1905.
My father and his parents, Robert Henry Kane and Annie nee Boshell, came to M/c after the uprising in 1916.
Actually, he could have married anywhere!
Kooky
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I have just ploughed through all the Kane marriages from 1911 to 1935 on Find my Past.
I noted Hugh's brother James and my father, and 5 marriages of a Hugh. Unfortunately the spouses were Ida, Ellen, Annie, Mary and Ivy. No Margaret!
I rechecked Scotlands people a short time ago, so Hugh must have been married in Ireland, or maybe abroad. No luck there either so far! :-\ Now what?
Kooky
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In relation to this thread ::), is St. Kevin's Square still there?
Also, I have the death of Henry Mc.Neill in 1929, informant H.Kane, nephew, at the same addresss. Henry was in the 1911 with my father and grandparents, at Dargle terrace. He was the bro. of Eliza, my gt gr mother.
This means that there are potentially 2 burials in Bray, one for Hugh and also Henry. They were protestant/presbyterian, where could they be buried?
In which paper would the death announcements have appeared?
Kooky
I am still hoping to visit Dublin sometime in the spring and need lots of info to help me with my investigations! :-\
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St. Kevin's Square seems to be off the Main street in Bray see - google map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=St+Kevins+Square,+Bray,+Co.+Wicklow,+Ireland&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.301969,67.587891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=St+Kevins+Square,+Bray,+County+Wicklow,+Ireland&ll=53.2021,-6.111553&spn=0.002699,0.00825&z=17)
I am not certain when it opened but the main cemetery used in the Bray town area in recent years is Springfield Cemetery, Killarney Road, Ballywaltrim. Killarney Rd leads from the town hall in the centre of the town south west towards Kilmacanogue. It's a council (i.e. non-denominational) graveyard.
It might be worth looking at the Bray Council website at http://braytowncouncil.ie/ - they have a tourist brochure which includes a map and various places of interest : Bray Brochure (http://www.rootschat.com/links/07kw/) (pdf file)
probably the best paper for the area is the Wicklow people which I've looked at in the National Library on microfilm and cover 1889 – 1976. I am sure other papers also cover the timeframe you are interested in. The are several libraries in Bray that migh have copies of newspapers ... including the one in Ballywaltrim, which is built on the location where my ancestors had their farm!
Shane
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Again, many thanks Shane!
The brochure is interesting.
Looking at the map reminded me of the tale my father used to tell.
He had a nanny as a very young baby. Apparently she often walked along Herbert Road, and that is why he was christened Herbert! :o
He always said he was glad there was no Cecil road!
Kooky
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A house at St. Kevin's Square Bray was for sale recently.... the ad on property.ie includes a photo and some details. Probably the same layout as number 31 - see : 13 St.Kevin's Square (http://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/13-St-Kevins-Square-Bray-Co-Wicklow/475825/)
Apparently part of the Film 'My Left Foot' (Daniel Day Lewis, Brenda Fricker) was filmed at St. Kevin's Square.
Shane
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Again, thanks Shane!
Kooky
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Hey Kooky! I live in one of the houses in St Kevin`s Square, just moved in! I dont have any info you might need but thanks to you i found out few interesting things about this area, thanks! Good luck with your research :)
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Thank you! Welcome to Rootschat.
Kooky
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Kooky I would like to thank you I also have found out more about St Kevin,s Square thought your
research,I am only sorry I can,t help you even though I have Kelly,s in my family tree
hears53
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might be of interest - a recent query about an adjacent address (Aberdeen St), where I posted extract of scans for 1909 & 1920s maps, which also shows St. Kevin's Square - see Doonans of Bray (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,440657.msg3039428.html#msg3039428)
Shnae
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Thanks Shane!
Kooky
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I contacted Wicklow family history Centre some time ago about the possibility of finding who was living at 31, St. Kevin's Square after Hugh Kane's death in 1935, and also therefore any children he and Margaret may have had.
They have replied with no results for my queries and referred me to the 'Electorial registers'[sic]at the National Library!
They tell me that the address is not listed in Thom's directory for Bray in 1911, 1922, 1932, 1941 and 1951. :o
Kooky
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Over a year on and I am no further ???
I am determined to discover Margaret's name before her marriage :-\
Any ideas?
Kooky
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Have had a look at Ancestry's Irish marriage records, where you can click to find others on same page.
From about a dozen marriages for Hugh Kane I have isolated one -Margaret Nelson, 1913 Belfast.
All the others have been eliminated for one reason or another. ::)
If I write for the cert. giving Hugh's father's name, and it is not the correct one, presumably I do not get my moneye back? ???
Kooky
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Sorry, but the Ancestry index doesn't work that way. On the 1913 marriage page for Hugh Kane there are several couples listed on the page. That particular Hugh Kane actually married Leonora McLean not Margaret Nelson.
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Thank you for your reply.
How do you know who married who?
Please enlighten me!
Kooky
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You can use various free searches on other sites to find a possible spouse, father's name, etc.
In this instance I searched on Emerald Ancestors for 'Hugh Kane' looked for a 1913 marriage (Belfast comes under Antrim and Down but there was only an Antrim one). Free search shows bride as Leonora ? .
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Thank you for explanation!
Is there any way I can actually find where and when Hugh married Margaret?
He was single in the 1911 census, and died in 1935.
Kooky
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The online civil registration index goes up to 1958 for the Republic of Ireland. You need to search for bride and groom separately then cross-reference the results.
Found Hugh in 1911 census in Royal Naval Hospital, Gosport, Hampshire!
He was single and Leading carpenters crew.
Since Hugh was in the Navy it's possible he married Margaret somewhere outside Ireland.
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I mentioned earlier in this post that I have checked English and Scottish records.
I suppose it could have been overseas :'(
Kooky
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Two and a half years on and I still need to find the maiden name of Hugh's wife Margaret.
I also would love to discover where Hugh and his uncle Henry McNeill are buried.
Kooky
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Still looking for marriage of Hugh Alexander Kane to Margaret, also funeral details for Hugh in 1935 :(
Kooky
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grasping at straws here re the death cert 1957 Winifred O'Reilly,Daughter
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/67df906227736
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKS-C3V
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Thank you! Interesting! 8)
Kooky
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Hopefully, I sent for the marriage of Winifred Margaret Kane and Charles OReilly.
It was not the correct one! :'( The father of the bride was Daniel Kane and it was a RC Church.
My grandfather's brother was Hugh Alexander Kane and the family were always Protestant!!
Back to the drawing board :(
Kooky
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=481504.0