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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset => England => Somerset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Philcandy on Thursday 05 February 09 15:15 GMT (UK)
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I would be grateful if someone could please help me to find these two men - perhaps brothers - in 1861 and 1871.
Jesse was born about 1823 in Twerton, Somerset and Benjamin some time around 1826 or 1827.
There is some confusion about whether Benjamin was born in Somerset or in Wiltshire, so any help in sorting this out would be most welcome.
Kind regards
Phil Candy
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Dear listers
I have a posted a request for help with census lookups for two men - Jesse BUTCHER born 1823 and Benjamin BUTCHER born about 1829 - in or near Twerton (see: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358670.0.html) but to my surprise no-one seems to be able to see them in 1861 or 1871, even though they were both alive in 1881.
From the indexes, it looks as if Jesse was in the Frome RD in 1861 and in Clifton, Bristol in 1871. Benjamin - if it's the right person - was in Bath RD in both 1861 and 1871.
Can someone with Somerset interests please have a look for me?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Philip Candy
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Hi Philip :)
1861
RG9. P. 1654 Fol. 42 Pg. 29
Gorehedge, Frome
Butcher ( transcribed Britcher)
Jesse Head M 38 Engine driver
Martha Wife M 41
Maria Dau 18 Dressmaker
all born Bath
Is this him ?
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Thanks for tracking them down. Here they are in 1851, so I'd say this is definitely the right person:
1851 Census of Twerton, Som
BUTCHER Jesse 28 Dyer Twerton, Som.
Martha 32 Twerton, Som.
Maria 8 Scholar Twerton, Som.
Kind regards
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Don't know if this is the right Jesse Butcher
1871 5 Richmond Street Southside,Bristol,Glos
Jesse Butcher Head Widower 48 Railway Engine Driver Wiltshire,Trowbridge
Phoebe Vincent Mother-in-law Widow 71 Annuitant Wiltshire,Salisbury
Sarah Ann Leictern(?) Neice unmarried 19 Miliner& Dressmaker Middlesex,Paddington
(Martha Vincent married Jesse Butcher in Somerset 1842
I notice in 1851 Jesse Butcher b1823 Somerset,Twerton is living with wife Martha Butcher and
daughter Maria Butcher in Twerton,Somerset.
and next door to them is
Edward Butcher 62 born Wiltshire,Trowbridge and his son Benjamin Butcher 21 born Somerset,Twerton
Don't know if this helps or confuses ::)
Raylen
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Not having as much luck with Benjamin :-\
The only Benjamn Butcher I can see living in Twerton was born in Trowbridge, Wilts - his wife was Mary.
Do you know anything about who Benjamin might have been married to ?
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This is really helpful, especially as Jesse's wife was originally Martha VINCENT, so it makes sense that his mother in law was Phoebe VINCENT.
The other name is also very helpful; I wonder if it could be Sarah Ann LINTERN, since two women named BUTCHER appear on the same page as a Joseph LINTERN in freebmd marraiges in 1846, which suggests that Sarah Ann was perhaps a daughter of Jesse's sister Sarah.
Many thanks
Philip Candy
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Hello Phil
Re 1871 census I have found
5 Richmond Street South Side St Philips Bristol
Jesse Butcher Head Widower age 48 Railway Engine Driver born Trowbridge
Phoebe Vincent Widow Mother in Law age 71
Sarah Ann Lintern ? Niece Unmarried age 19
May help
Sue
Sorry Raylan I have just noticed your post on the topic on the Census board
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Thanks Sue
This is very helpful, as it suggests that one or other of Jesse's sisters married someone named LINTERN.
Could I ask you to see if you can find Sarah Ann LINTERN at home in 1861, as she may be with her Mum and Dad?
Thanks again
Phil
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Now - strangely - the Jesse Butcher in Bristol in 1871 - who might be the same person - also says born Trowbridge :-\
Here he is:
1871
RG10. P. 2564 Fol. 32 Pg. 16
5 Richmond Street, St Philip & St Jacob. Bristol
Jesse Butcher Head Wid 48 Railway Engine Driver B. Wilts. Trowbridge
Phoebe Vincent Mother in Law Wid 71 B. Wilts. Salisbury
Sarah Ann Linten Niece 19 Dressmaker B. Middlesex, Paddington
Was Martha previously Vincent or is this a different Jesse ???
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Not having as much luck with Benjamin :-\
The only Benjamin Butcher I can see living in Twerton was born in Trowbridge, Wilts - his wife was Mary.
Do you know anything about who Benjamin might have been married to ?
I think this is the right person. The posting elsehere on this page shows that Jesse also alternated between being born in Twerton and being born in Trowbridge, so I think these two men are actually brothers.
Could you post what you've found for Benjamin?
Thanks a lot.
Philip
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I think this thread needs merging with the other one running - same replies and questions are being asked on both :o :o
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Now - strangely - the Jesse Butcher in Bristol in 1871 - who might be the same person - also says born Trowbridge :-\
Here he is:
1871
RG10. P. 2564 Fol. 32 Pg. 16
5 Richmond Street, St Philip & St Jacob. Bristol
Jesse Butcher Head Wid 48 Railway Engine Driver B. Wilts. Trowbridge
Phoebe Vincent Mother in Law Wid 71 B. Wilts. Salisbury
Sarah Ann Linten Niece 19 Dressmaker B. Middlesex, Paddington
Was Martha previously Vincent or is this a different Jesse ???
Yes, Jesse's wife was Martha VINCENT (they were married in the September Quarter of 1842) so there's little doubt that this is the right person.
I think their father, Edward BUTCHER, was in fact born in Trowbridge and the sons got confused about whether they were actually born in Twerton or Trowbridge!
Kind regards
Philip
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I'm not sure how to do that, but that's why I posted the cross-reference when I first posted on the Somerset Board.
What do you think I should do to stop people doubling up by mistake?
Kind regards
Philip
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Shall I report to mod ? One of them will merge ;D ;D
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Hello Phil
Re 1861 census 21 Weldale St Reading
Joseph Lintern Head Married 39 Engine Driver GWR born Somersetshire Bedminster
Sarah Lintern Wife Married 37 born Tiverton???
Frederick Son 11 Scholar born Paddington
Sarah Ann Daughter 9 Scholar born Paddington Middlesex
Walter S son 7 Scholar born Reading Berks
Charles C ? son 2 born Reading Berks
There is also a boarder and her son present- let me know if you want details
Ref RG 9/745 P22
I think this posting may need merging with the posting for the census board.
hope this help
Sue
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Hello Phil
Re 1861 census 21 Weldale St Reading
Joseph Lintern Head Married 39 Engine Driver GWR born Somersetshire Bedminster
Sarah Lintern Wife Married 37 born Tiverton???
Frederick Son 11 Scholar born Paddington
Sarah Ann Daughter 9 Scholar born Paddington Middlesex
Walter S son 7 Scholar born Reading Berks
Charles C ? son 2 born Reading Berks
There is also a boarder and her son present- let me know if you want details
Ref RG 9/745 P22
<snip>
Sue
This is brilliant, thank you. It looks as if Joseph LINTERN may have married Sarah BUTCHER in the December Quarter of 1846 in Bristol, so that adds a little more information to the tree.
I suspect that Sarah's place of birth was Twerton which looks very much like Tiverton.
Kind regards
Philip
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Could you post what you've found for Benjamin?
1871
RG10. P. 2475 Fol. 13 Pg. 20/21
High Street, Twerton
Butcher
Benjamin Head M 41 Publican B. Wilts Trowbridge
Mary Wife M 42
Ann Dau 18 Staymaker
Alfred Son 12 Scholar
Ann S Dau 8 ~
Sarah M Lintern Sister in Law M 46
George M Lintern Nephew 7 Scholar B. Berks. Reading
all others born Twerton
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Hello Phil
<snip>
I think this posting may need merging with the posting for the census board.
hope this help
Sue
I agree. I'll try to divert traffic from the other board to this one.
Philip
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Dear Listers
I have inadvertently caused havoc, and people are helpfully posting on two different boards as a result.
Please put any further contributions on the Somerset Board, here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=358821.new#new
Kind regards, many thanks for all the help, and apologies for confusing people.
Philip Candy
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Many thanks indeed for the Benjamin BUTCHER posting. This is exactly what I was hoping for, and because it mentions the LINTERN connection it confirms my hunch that Benjamin and Jesse were brothers, and that their sister was Sarah BUTCHER who married Joseph LINTERN.
Fantastically helpful - thank you.
Philip Candy
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1861 Railway Place,Twerton,Somerset
Benjamin Butcher Head M 32 Woollen Spinner Wiltshire,Trowbridge
Mary Butcher Wife M 33 Wife of Woollen Spinner Somerset,Twerton
Ann Butcher Daughter 8 Somerset,Twerton
Alfred Butcher Son 2 Somerset,Twerton
RG9 P:1682 Folio:7 Page:7
If already posted....sorry ( getting late here :))
Raylen
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Raylen :D Better late than never :D Dont think Ben 1861 had been posted yet on either :D
on the 1871 in Twerton there is a Martha Butcher living alone, unmarried, aged 45, Cloth Burler, B. Twerton.
Is she another sister ?
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Thanks so much. This is great as it basically completes the postings for Benjamin and Jesse, and proves that their sister Sarah married into the LINTERN family.
I would be interested in more information about Martha, born about 1826. She could be another sister, although I think there were other BUTCHER families in Twerton around the same time.
I have one more request, if people don't mind. Could we possibly find John and Elizabeth BUTCHER in 1861 and 1871? He is another brother of Jesse and Benjamin; here they are in 1851:
BUTCHER John 41 Tailor Twerton, Som.
Elizabeth 41 Twerton, Som.
Sarah 12 Scholar Twerton, Som.
Martha 11 Scholar Twerton, Som.
Again, any help would be very welcome. Who knows, there may be another sister or nephew living with them in 1861 or 1871?
Kind regards
Philip
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Martha b. 1826 :
1861
RG0. P. 1682 Fol. 25 Pg. 4
River Place, Twerton
BUTCHER
Martha head Wid 68 Cloth worker
Martha Dau Un 35 ~ ~
both born Twerton
In 1851 Martha b. 1826 is in service in Bath. This looks like her mother:
1851
HO107. P. 1940 Fol. 192 Pg. 39
BUTCHER
John Head M 68 Hand loom weaver cloth
Martha Wife M 60
John Son Un 20 ~ ~ ~ ~
all born Twerton
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Well, I've found John in 1861; aged 51, tailor, b. Twerton,
He says married, he's lodging in Kilmersden, Somerset. Indexed Batcher.
But I can't see Elizabeth with any certainty.
There's an Elizabeth of the right age, also married but with no husband home, living in Walcot, Bath. But - she has a daughter Mary A. aged 21. Both born Twerton.
I think Elizabeth and Mary might be the wife and Daughter of William Butcher; in 1851 he says born Trowbridge, age 57 .
Is this another brother ?
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Thanks very much for this. It looks like an earlier generation, which may carry me back further. The John I am looking for was baptised in 1809 to Edward and Ann (nee PONTING) and was definitely a brother to Jesse and Benjamin, whereas this person is more likely their uncle, if he's related at all!!
To make matters more complicated, I have found yet another BUTCHER - William - also born in Trowbridge in about 1794. In 1851 he has these children:
BUTCHER William 57 Spinner Trowbridge, Wilts.
Elizabeth 50 Twerton, Som.
Edward 23 Machinist Twerton, Som.
William 16 Cloth Worker Twerton, Som.
Mary 8 Scholar Twerton, Som.
FOREMAN William Lodger 17 Cloth Worker Twerton, Som.
When I look at the bathbmd website, Mary, born in 1843, is showing her mother's name as PONTING; indeed she has a sister Ann Ponting BUTCHER, born in 1838 (died in 1844) whose mother was also a PONTING.
SO, it looks as if William BUTCHER may have married Elizabeth PONTING, and had Elizabeth (1819), Sophia (1823) Edward (1828); William (1835); Ann (1938) and Mary (1843).
Could I impose on you to see if you can find John and Elizabeth in 1841 in Twerton and see who is living with them?
Many thanks indeed.
Philip
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Well, I've found John in 1861; aged 51, tailor, b. Twerton,
He says married, he's lodging in Kilmersden, Somerset. Indexed Batcher.
But I can't see Elizabeth with any certainty.
There's an Elizabeth of the right age, also married but with no husband home, living in Walcot, Bath. But - she has a daughter Mary A. aged 21. Both born Twerton.
I think Elizabeth and Mary might be the wife and Daughter of William Butcher; in 1851 he says born Trowbridge, age 57 .
Is this another brother ?
Oh dear!
Can you go back to 1841 and find William and Elizabeth (and their children) and John and Elizabeth (and their children?
That might be the way forward!
Thanks
Philip
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Phil - I'l do the 1841's in a moment - meanwhile :
in 1871 : John Butcher Married 62 Tailor B. Somerset, Twerton - patient in Bristol Royal Infirmary. (indexed Britcher)
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Given the matching age and occupation, I think this is clearly the right person.
Since he's shown as married and not widowed, I guess that his wife is still alive too, maybe with one or other of the children.
Thanks a lot for spotting this (especially under such an odd spelling!)
Philip
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Drawn a blank with John, I'm afraid - can't see a match for him, Elizabeth, Sarah or Martha in 1841 :-\
Here's William:
1841
HO107. P. 961/14 Fo. 32 Pg. 6
Rail Road Place, Twerton
BUTCHER
William 45
Elizabeth 40
Elizabeth 20
Sophia 15
Sydney 15
Mary 5
William 5
Ann 3
all except William 45 born in county.
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This is really great. It ties this family together and suggests the possbility that two BUTCHER brothers married two PONTING sisters.
I really appreciate all your help.
Kind regards
Philip
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<snip>
Here's William:
1841
HO107. P. 961/14 Fo. 32 Pg. 6
Rail Road Place, Twerton
BUTCHER
William 45
Elizabeth 40
Elizabeth 20
Sophia 15
Sydney 15
Mary 5
William 5
Ann 3
all except William 45 born in county.
I would be really grateful is someone could find these people in 1861 or later.
Here they are in 1851 in Twerton:
BUTCHER William 57 Spinner Trowbridge, Wilts.
Elizabeth 50 Twerton, Som.
Edward 23 Machinist Twerton, Som.
William 16 Cloth Worker Twerton, Som.
Mary 8 Scholar Twerton, Som.
FOREMAN William Lodger 17 Cloth Worker Twerton, Som.
I'm interested to know if other members of either the PONTING or the BUTCHER family were with them in subsequent years, or when William and Elizabeth may have died.
Many thanks for any help.
Philip Candy
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Hi Phil
See my post #25; I think Elizabeth and Mary are the two I mentioned there.
There is a death reg. for a William Butcher Q2. 1857 Bath Vol. 5c. Pg. 430
There are no ages shown at that point, so no way of knowing whether that is father or son :-\
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I'm afraid I cant spot any of the others in that family in either 1861 or 1871 :-\
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Thanks lot for looking. It's hard to know where they all went.
The William BUTCHER who died in 1857 was only 3 years old (information from bathbmd.org.uk) so it's not clear when and where William, born about 1794, may have died.
Like you, I have been unable to find other members of the family except for Sophia who died in 1848 at the age of 25.
I guess I'll have to keep searching; I suspect they are under some mis-transcription or variant spelling.
Kind regards and thanks again.
Phil
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I searched for them using just their first names, ages and Twerton; I couldn't see any surnames which came up which looked remotely like Butcher or could have been mistaken for Butcher :-\
I looked for Butchers born on those dates in Twerton - again, none of their first names showed.
I looked in Wales, too :D They weren't there either :-\
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Hi
Joseph Lintern was my great great grandfather and Sarah Ann Lintern my great grandmother. Sarah married Charles Ilsley, my great grandfather. I’m new to Roots Chat but would love to hear from anyone interested. Regards, Ken
Hello Phil
Re 1861 census 21 Weldale St Reading
Joseph Lintern Head Married 39 Engine Driver GWR born Somersetshire Bedminster
Sarah Lintern Wife Married 37 born Tiverton???
Frederick Son 11 Scholar born Paddington
Sarah Ann Daughter 9 Scholar born Paddington Middlesex
Walter S son 7 Scholar born Reading Berks
Charles C ? son 2 born Reading Berks
There is also a boarder and her son present- let me know if you want details
Ref RG 9/745 P22
I think this posting may need merging with the posting for the census board.
hope this help
Sue
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Hi Butcher Bros.
Think we are related as Joseph Lintern was my 2 x gt. grandfather. Got a portrait of Joseph painted in Bristol which I can share with you. Hope to hear from you.
Regards
Ken