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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: brina on Saturday 07 February 09 11:30 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the Whellans family who I have traced back to Morebattle. I know that Andrew Douglas Whellans (1836-1901) who married Agnes Fox is definitely correct. He died in Perth. I think his father was also Andrew Douglas Whellans (1806-1881) who married Jane Patterson (1802-1866) then Jessie Wedderburn. His father was William Whellans a Carrier and mother Janet Laidlaw (I do not have dates for them yet).I am keen to confirm that I am on the correct track here as Andrew appeared to move about a bit and his occupation appeared to change from Day Labourer to Grocer, House Proprietor to Lodging House Keeper at his death in Edinburgh.
Any help, advice or assistance gratefully received.
P.S. The other thing is that they are sometimes recorded as Whelans (only 1 l in the name) and I cannot find them in 1951 census results and in 1961 only the younger Andrew's aged 24 and 1.
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Hi Brina
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Looks like you have researched the line up well! I would imagine, given that you are showing death dates that you have viewed the certs. and with the information contained there regarding parents' names worked your way back.
The 1841 census has:
William Whelans 81, carrier
Janet Whelans 60
John Whelans 35, teacher
Janet Whelans 5
Andrew Whelans 35, day labourer
Jane Whelans 39
William Wheelans 11
Wilson Whelans 6
Andrew Whelans 4
Jane Whelans 3
Address: Morebattle
You also have Andrew snr. showing as a child of William and Janet in the OPRs in 1806 in Morebattle.
Following their 1828 marriage in Ancrum, Andrew Jnr shows as born in 1836 in the OPRs (twin John born on the same day?).
This looks to be the family in 1851, which I think you were missing:
Andrew Wheelans 44, Grocer & Spirit Merchant
Jane Wheelans 50, b. Hawick, Rox
John Wheelans 14
Andrew Wheelans 14
Jane Wheelans 12
Mary Wood 16, servant
Address: Morebattle
For 1861, Andrew Snr and wife:
Andrew Whelens 54, Grocer & Draper, b. Morebattle
Jane P Whelens 60, b. Hawick, Roxburghshire
Address: Morebattle
Monica :)
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Just in case you haven't seen them. There are two Will & Testament entries for Andrew Snr. showing on Scotlands People:
Andrew Whellans, 16/05/1882 - or Andrew Douglas Whellans, 28 Candlemaker Row, Edinburgh, d. 13/12/1881 at Edinburgh, testate Will Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills SC70/4/194 and a further entry ref. SC70/1/214
Monica
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Hi Monica, :)
Thank you so much for your kind response. I was aware that Whellans was often spelt Whelans with one "l" and I have tried different perambulations for different years but clearly I had not done so for Census 1851. Thank you so much for letting me know that they were classified as Wheelans then. Also I had not been able to find Andrew Whellans and Jane Patterson's marriage record but once again it was a different spelling.
Yes I did see the records of Andrew and John (twins) but did you see that they were registered many years after they were born? I wonder if this was due to them being baptised later than normal or that they just forgot to register them. I read recently that people could not hold certain occupations unless they were baptised so maybe this was the case.
I had noticed the will and inventory of Andrew Whellans, 28 Candlemaker Row, Edinburgh, but I have not yet paid to access it. I think I will definitely do so within the next couple of days though as this will be very interesting to read.
He was obviously an interesting character and moved around quite a bit, even in later life.
Having said all this I wonder where the Whellans family originally came from. My mother tells me that her father said that they came over the Border from England. I suspect that perhaps they hailed from Ireland and maybe one day I will find out. Any ideas will be gratefully received.
Monica, many thanks once again, I really do appreciate your help and am so glad that I have found this website.
Brina
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Hi Brina
Not sure on your comment on the later registrations for Andrew and siblings - is this to do with their christenings?. The births that show on IGI at least seem in order:
1. WILSON WHELLANS Birth: 11 AUG 1834 Morebattle
2. JOHN WHELLANS Birth: 16 JUL 1836 Morebattle
3. ANDREW WHELLANS Birth: 16 JUL 1836 Morebattle
4. JEAN WHELLANS Birth: 19 MAY 1838 Morebattle
There is also a submitted entry on IGI for brother JOHN WHELANS marriage to a MARY GIBSON on 25 JUN 1860 Edinburgh.
I can't easily see a marriage for William and Janet (Laidlaw). Both show as being born in the Country in the 1841 census. In respect of the origins of the name, hard to say where the line originated from without more info - could have been North of England or Irish. You have been relatively lucky that your line were relatively consistent with the spelling of the surname :) I think the further back you go the more erratic the spelling may become...and there are many many variants on this surname!
Monica
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You might find this old post interesting on 'a brief history of the Whillans name'. There may be other opinions, but an interesting read nevertheless :)
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WHILLANS/1998-09/0905083658
Monica
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Hi Monica, :D
I enjoyed reading the link you supplied. Yes I guess I have been lucky tracing the Whellans family back as far as I have with the names changing little so far. I think I am definitely on the correct track and that William Whellans is as far back as I can go in the meantime. You are correct in assuming that I have copies of death certificates etc. of most of the direct family that I have been trying to trace. I find it is so easy to go off at a tangent without definite evidence. Of course this all takes time but I think it is worthwhile in the long run and the information I have discovered along the way has been fascinating. So many coincidences have arisen that it can be a little disconcerting at times.
It is interesting that a number of the Andrew's have Douglas as a middle name and I am curious as to where this has hailed from. Hopefully I will be able to find out in due course.
I will be visiting the Heritage Hub in Hawick in the next few weeks too so hopefully will find out more information then. I will post anything I find out just in case anyone else is interested. If I discover anything interesting in the will of Andrew Whellans who died in Edinburgh I will also post that.
Once again - many thanks.
Brina
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Dear Brina & Monicalesl
Noted your chat on this topic via Google alerting.
I'm involved heavily in researching Whillans and its homonyms, including Whellans. You might have a glance at my website http://www.one-name.org/profiles/whillans.html to gauge where I'm at in this effort.
One of the lines I have researched is the Morebattle Whellans, W-W2 (my ref #) William Fillins/Whealins/Whelands/Whelans/Whillins c04dec1768 (Morebattle), wright in Jedburgh, feuar/carrier in Morebattle. This William's second marriage was to Jane/Janet Laidlaw, his first was to Allison/Alison Thomson.
You will note, I'm sure the spelling variations I've noted in the various literature, ie I've seen William's surname spelt five different ways, but funnily not as Whellans. His chn were, from one source, surnamed Whillans. I am becoming quite convinced that these names and others such as Wealleans (from Northumberland) are from one and the same source, coming from Argyllshire from where they were scattered primarily to Roxburghshire & Northumberland. That is the primary reason why I have commenced a Y-DNA study to (in)validate this hypothesis.
I have also hyp that William had a sister Margaret, a bro Samuel, and possibly another dau Janet; furthermore that their father, also a William, witnessed baptisms in Morebattle during Dec1768, Jun1771, and Jun1780.
Tracking forward, I can name over 120 descendants of this William.
Could we email more extensively off list?
Frank Whillans, Melbourne Australia.
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Hi Frank
I did come across one of your posts when I was doing general google searches....and then could I find it not later when I was trying to provide Brina with some links to the name origins :P
This is great news for Brina :)
To email off the main forum, perhaps Brina could use the 'Private Message' (PMs) system to send you her email (not great to include emails on the main forum as you're at risk of spamming etc.). You need to have done at least 3 PMs to be able to send messages this way which is how many Brina has now done!
Brina, if you click on the small green scroll under Frank 'Whillans' name on the l/h side, it will take you straight through to the PM service.
Frank, you should get a message box on the screen to let you know that you have a PM (also an alert in your email account, although this does not always come through there). If you go to the very top of the page here, you will see in the centre: welcome back..., you have xx messages, x are new. Click on that to take you to the PM service, which operates very much like an email account.
Good luck both of you with your research :)
Monica
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Hi to Monica and Frank,
Thank you to both for your help and advice. I will try to PM you Frank with details I have discovered although it sounds to me as though you are much more advanced in your research than me.
Monica, Your help has been invaluable.
Brina
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Dear Brina
I have been looking at my records on your line of interest, and I do have quite extensive information for you, once you contact me directly. The only item I didn't have was that Andrew Whellans b1836 had a middle name of Douglas - I had not gleaned this from any of my sources. His father b1806 did however have Douglas as he was named Andrew Douglas Wh....
The 1841 data which Monica itemised earlier is correct:
William Whelans 81, carrier
Janet Whelans 60+, his second wife
John Whelans 35+, teacher, William's son
Janet Whelans 5, William's gdau & Andrew's niece
Andrew Whelans 35+, day labourer, William's son
Jane Whelans 39, Andrew's wife
William Wheelans 11, Andrew's son
Wilson Whelans 6, Andrew's son
Andrew Whelans 4, Andrew's son
Jane Whelans 3, Andrew's dau
I have placed a + on some ages, as the 1841 census usually listed the low end of five year brackets for adults, ie a 35yo and a 39yo would be listed as 35yo.
Frank Whillans, Melbourne Australia.
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Hi Frank,
I PM'd you the other day after adding to this topic. It would appear that it did not work. I will try again, obviously I must have been doing something wrong. Sorry about that.
Thank you for this information, I had already looked at the census details. The most interesting and helpful information you have supplied has been the different spellings and also the fact that William was married twice. That has helped me enormously.
Still trying to find out about the Douglas part, so far I can only get this back to 1806 for Andrew's middle name. I am supposing that it has come down his mother's line and am just about to download his birth details so there just might be something there.
I am about to try to PM you now, please place a message on this site if you do not get it this time and I will try to find out what I am doing wrong.
Many thanks and best wishes.
Brina
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Hi Frank,
It is Brina here again. I wonder if it is that you only have two posts that I cannot PM you. Maybe if you post on this topic again it will work. I am sure that Monica said that 3 posts were required before a PM was possible.
Brina
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Hi Frank,
Thought that I would just ask you if you know what happened to Wilson Whellans and William Whellans who moved to Australia. I do not have a definite date to give you but in their father's will (Andrew Douglas Whellans) of 1880 he mentions that they are both in Australia. I know no more. I have tried to find them on various Australian sites but cannot find any trace of them. I have tried the various spellings and no luck. He refers to them as his sons William and Wilson Whellans in his will.
William to receive one third of the proceeds of the sale of a property, his daughter Jane Whellans or Fox, currently living in America, to receive one third and the third for Wilson to be invested for him by the Trustees. Why Wilson's was to be invested and not all paid to him like the others I do not know.
Any help gratefully received.
Brina
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Brina
Yes I do have a lot on William Whellans who migrated to Australia (he arrived on 24oct1853 in Australia on the 'Goldfinder'), and I used to be in contact with one of his descendants. His family spelt their surname when they arrived as Wheelens.
I did not know Wilson migrated also - little clues such as this help in locating links in one's data, so I'll look again with this new perspective.
Frank.
PS: One of my email addresses is listed in my web-page, see earlier correspondence.
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This is not actually about the WHELLANS family of Morebattle, but as it is about WHILLANS/WHELLANS in Roxburghshire, perhaps it will be of interest to somebody.
A new book I have recently read, "From Kelso to Kalamazoo. The Life and Times of George Taylor 1803-1891" mentions two sisters called Jane and Charlotte "Wheelance"/"Wheelence"/"Whillence"/"Whilleans". There are four mentions of the surname, and each time the author George Taylor spells it differently. His autobiographical memoir was edited and published from a handwritten MS in the possession of descendants, and the editors - from the European Ethnological Research Centre in the National Museums of Scotland - have normalised the spelling to Whellans in square brackets in the body of the text, and in the index.
In 1862 Kelso native George Taylor came back to the old country from the States, and - being a widower by then - proposed to Jane Whillans, whom he obviously knew of old. He tells us she "had a good situation as housekeeper at Grahamslaw", and I checked this out in the 1861 census of Eckford parish. Jane was then 35, and claimed to be a native of Jedburgh. A "good situation" indeed - her employer Charles Cunningham, a farmer with 750 acres and 21 farm-workers - was only 18 years old!
Taylor also mentions visiting Lilliesleaf, where Jean "Whilleans" ' youngest sister Charlotte was married with a family.
I have not been able to identify which family of WHILLANS/WHELLANS Jane and Charlotte sprang from.
Harry
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Hi Harry
The closest I can see for younger sister Charlotte in 1871 - but surname looks to be Turnbull from later birth regs for children in Lilliesleaf:
John Falla 34, Blacksmith (master Employing 1 Boy), b. Lilliesleaf
Charlotte Falla 33, b. Jedburgh
William Falla 6, b. England
Jane Falla 3, b. England
Address: Dunstan Hends House, Lilliesleaf
A hard family to find ;) Can't see anything earlier for Charlotte (or Jean for that matter with a birth year c. 1826 ) in Scotland./Roxb. under Whe/i*
Monica
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Thanks, Monica. Finding any member of the WHILLANS family is not made easier by the fact that the IGI regularly returns WILLIAMS matches!
My only connection to the surname is that my great-grandmother Martha Stewart from Hawick had a sister called Jane Murray Stewart who married a George WHILLANS from Jedburgh. That family has been well researched forwards and backwards.
And my 3 x great-grandfather Hugh Stephenson - after siring the illegitimate son I'm descended from - married a Jemima WHILLANS who is invisible in the records until she dies in 1834 and is buried at Smailholm.
Harry
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I looked up the 1851 Census to see where Jane Wheelans was working then and it is interesting to note that she is working in the minister's household in Crailing and low and behold who is visiting that day but James Cunningham and his mother. They are obviously related to the minister who was Adam Cunningham. This must be the connection and presumably she moved on to work for James at some point over the next 10 years.
Brina
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Interesting! Thank you.
Harry
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Hi Harry,
I have ordered the book Kelso to Kalamazoo from the library so am looking forward to reading it. If I can figure out exactly which line Jane hails from I will let you know.
Best wishes,
Brina
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It's an interesting read, and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. At one point Taylor mentions calling on the Rev. Adam Cunningham at Crailing.
Harry
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Hello again to Brina & Monica.
I cannot add anything really significant to the info I provided in my three messages in Feb last. I have looked for sisters Charlotte (b~1837) and Jane (b~1825) in my files but I have to admit I cannot link them in, at least not at the moment. There are plenty of Jane's, none exactly the right age, and Charlotte's of any age are like hen's teeth.
I write here as I am in contact with three other genealogists, not involved in this discussion, who are actually descended from the Whellans family who originated in Morebattle Roxburghshire. Two live in Australia and one in England. The four of us have been busy combining our data over the past half year. If you are descended from the Whillans/Whellens/Wealleans/Whillas/Willans/etc lot, I invite you to join the Whillans Rootsweb List as well as this, via whillans-request@rootsweb.com using the single word subscribe - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Once you're in, just send your messages to that List as well; it's a small List functioning now for nearly eleven years.
As far as I'm concerned, I want to link these two sisters in, so I am looking for that extra little clue that might enable it. I have searched the complete 1841 census for Roxburghshire via microfilm and the Jedburgh parish records (many years ago), and I didn't pick up a Charlotte, about 3yo, unlike Jane who would have been about 15yo. This leads me to the hypothesis that they were ex-Roxburghshire at that time, but I wonder where.
PS: Harry, many thanks for providing your extended data on & photos of the family of Stephenson (Hugh Eskew Stephenson married Jemima Whillans b~1798 at Smailholm).
PPS: Monica on 14 July stated "The closest I can see for younger sister Charlotte in 1871 - but surname looks to be Turnbull from later birth regs for children in Lilliesleaf". At first this seemed irrelevant, but on reflection I wondered as three of Jemima 's hyp siblings married Turnbulls, however in looking again at my data there is nothing obvious.
Cheers (or should it be consolations).
Frank Whillans from Melbourne.
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Hello Frank. I'm very interested in what you say about Jemima Whillans being born in 1798 at Smailholm. You're ahead of me there. Can you supply further details? All I know about Jemima, thanks to Sonia Murray, is that she married Hugh Stephenson at some unknown time and place and that she died in 1834 and was buried at Smailholm.
For anyone wondering what my connection is, I am descended from the result of Hugh Stephenson's pre-marital fling with Alison Moffat of Melrose, i.e. their love-child Robert Stephenson (1805-63). So my interest in Jemima Whillans is purely academic.
I also however have Whillans relatives through the marriage of Jane Murray Stewart to George Whillans of Jedburgh. Jane's sister was my great-grandmother Martha Stewart, who married a grandson of Hugh Stephenson. So I was familiar with the surname Whillans, and I knew I had distant Whillans relatives in Canada, even before I discovered that my Hugh Stephenson had married a Whillans.
Harry
Harry
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Harry
My "Jemima Whillans b~1798" means that she was born about 1798, in this case it's not +/- 1 but quite a bit wider, say +/- 5; in other words, I made an estimate.
There was something odd in this family as it hasn't fallen into place readily for us.
It had been previously hypothesised that Jemima Whillans (W-H0 b1795-1800, husband Hugh Stephenson) and Walter Whillans (W-H1 b~1809, wife Catherine Stephenson b~1807) were possible siblings in Hawick. However, the story is far from neat.
Supposing Jemima's parents were:
Richard (hyp b15jun1783 Dent Yorkshire, c Sedbergh Yorkshire) and Katherine Stevenson (c Oct1779 Hawick, pa Walter Stevenson ma Janet Oliver), with Walter b03jan1809 Hawick known definitely to be their child, Richard & Katherine would have been 25yo & 29yo at Walter's birth which is fine. Now Jemima's first child was b~1814 (26yo in 1841), so if her parents were Richard & Katherine, then it is tentatively hyp that Richard as a ~15yo teenager sired Jemima illegitimately just before the turn of the century, if to Katherine then she would probably have been ~19yo.
George Willan (b~1760) & Martha Burton, evidenced from the death certificate of Richard (b1783), then Jemima would have been Walter's aunt, ie Richard’s younger sister. At this stage, while the dates seem more sensible, evidence is lacking.
Jemima made a point of not naming any of her chn after Richard & Katherine or George & Martha. Funny that. To date, she has beaten both Sonia, one of her descendants, and myself.
Frank Whillans.
PS: This thread has moved well away from Morebattle, but at least the Whillans is still prominent, mixed up with Stephenson. Harry, can you link the above Stephensons into the same family?
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Thanks for that explanation. The Stevensons you mention in Hawick don't seem to be related to my Stephensons, who have connections with Alwinton in Northumberland, and various farms in East Lothian. The brothers William, Joseph (father of Hugh) and Thomas Stephenson were placed in farms in East Lothian by their father William Stephenson, a successful "store-farmer" in Roxburghshire who merited an obituary in the "Kelso Mail" when he died in 1807, allegedly aged 77.
His first wife's name is unknown, but that marriage would have been back in Northumberland somewhere. William's sons Thomas and Joseph married their respective wives at Alwinton in Coquetdale, near Rothbury. William's 2nd wife, according to his will, was a Margaret Smith, but I can't find a record of the marriage.
Harry
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As I'm directly involved in the publication of 'From Kelso to Kalamazoo', the life of George Taylor, I'm pleased to see that people are using it to trace their ancestors. He does use four different spellings of Whellans (he was in his eighties when he wrote the memoir!) but the editors took the decision to use the popular local name Whellans.
Poor Jane didn't have time to enjoy her life in America, she was married in Jan 1863 and died October that year. In his 60th year, George married, lost his son aged 19 in August (he drowned) and his wife and baby. Life was hard in those days.
George refers to her once as 'cousin' but I don't know how she was a cousin.
I'm not researching the family tree but I'm interested to see what peolpe like yourselves uncover!
Keep up the good work.
PS I have a photo of Grahamslaw where she worked but I think attaching it is beyond me!
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By coincidence, I don't have any family connection with the place called Grahamslaw, but I did have an ancestor in Kelso with that surname.
Harry
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Hi Morag
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I'm curious, did Jane W and George marry in Scotland? I couldn't easily see a marriage for them.
Sad ending for her and George :'(
Monica
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George , by then a widower for the second time, came baclk to Scotland on a visit at the end of 1862 and returned to America with Jane, whom he refers to as a cousin.He sailed back to America that winter and married her in Kalamazoo in January 1863. He was 60 in February and in August his 19 year old son was drowned in a lake, then Jane and the baby died.
His first wife died giving birth to her second baby, the first one died too.
His second wife had his 6 children and they all survived. She died of TB in 1860.
His third wife was Jane and his last wife also died before him.
So he outlived five of his children and four wives.
If you are interested in history, please read his memoirs 'From Kelso to Kalamazoo', it's an amazing collection of memories of a long gone way of life.
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I have just finished reading the book "From Kelso to Kalamazoo" and can strongly recommend it to anyone who is interested in learning about life in the 1800's. There are so many interesting facts contained in this book and clearly travel and temperance were two of the main factors in George's life.
I was fascinated to read that George's parents had sailed to America in 1801 immediately after their marriage but returned to Scotland a short time after. His father always dreamed of returning one day.
We have not yet solved the Whellans connection but perhaps one day we will. I was also particularly interested to see that Jane and George decided to travel to Kalamazoo before marrying. One would imagine that Jane would want to get married at home before embarking on such a journey.
If you live in the Scottish Borders your local library will loan this book to you.
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Hi Brina
It is a pity that Jane did not marry in Scotland, it would have helped in identifying her family!
Monica
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Hi Monica,
You are absolutely right - things would be so much easier. I am sure we will find out who Jean Whellans was but it is so annoying not to be able to identify her from the records we currently have.
Thanks for your interest in this thread. It is people like you who can so often point us in the right direction or make suggestions to try things that have so far escaped us. Sometimes it is easy to get tunnel vision when researching something and the obvious escapes us.
If I find out anything else I will post here again.
Brina
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Hello Brina
I'm pleased to hear that the book 'From Kelso to Kalamazoo' was a good read.
There must be a record of Jane's marriage to George Taylor in America, it would have been in Kalamazoo in January 1863.
Why not try emailing Kalamazoo Library? (Look on the web)
Hope this helps.
morageckford
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There is an enthusiastic review of "From Kelso to Kalamazoo" in the latest issue of the Scots Magazine (August 2009). I scanned it onto my computer and tried to paste it in here but it didn't work.
Harry
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I hope that this works and is allowed. It is the book review from the Scots Magazine.
By the way I have e-mailed Kalamazoo Public Library to ask for help in tracing Jane Whellans and George Taylor's marriage certificate. Here's hoping I am lucky and if so I will share the information on this site.
http://www.scotsmagazine.com/bookReviews.asp
Jean
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Disappointing news from The Kalamazoo Public Library: -
I received your email requesting a record of the marriage of George Taylor and Jane Whellans from 1863. I checked the Kalamazoo County Index to Marriages checking for the variations on Jane’s surname and found no listing for their marriage. Sorry that I could not be of further assistance to you in your search.
I feel quite disappointed by this message but on the other hand am determined to find out more. If you have any ideas please feel free to print them.
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Hi Brina
:'( That is disappointing. The clues may therefore have to come from Scotland.
The issue of Jane and Charlotte being sisters and the likelyhood of Charlotte being a Turnbull. There is an approx. 15 year gap between the two 'sisters'. There is always the possibility of different fathers. Perhaps Charlotte's mother remarried a Turnbull and Charlotte was a daughter from that marriage. Although half sister, Charlotte and Jane could have been close in terms of relationship (all guesswork and speculation at this stage in the absence of fact ::)). I did see a likely entry for Charlotte Turnbull in the earlier censuses, which I'll go back now and find....
Monica
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These the main entries for a potential Charlotte Turnbull in the early censuses:
Andw Dods 60, blacksmith
Isabella Dods 60, b. Scotland
John Dods 35
Jannet Dods 20
Jane Dods 20
Charlotte Turnbull 6
Address: Boryedward, Jedburgh
Isabela Dodds 73, kept by her son, b. Eaddon, Berwickshire
Janet Dodds 32, daughter b. Jedburgh
Charlotte Turnbull 16, granddaughter, b. Jedburgh
Address: Bougedward Village, Jedburgh
And then for 1861:
James B Crease 55, Woollen Manufacturer Emplyings 10 Man 16 Boys 18 Wornen, b. Edinburgh
Jane Crease 50
Charles Crease 15
Charlotte Turnbull 23, housemaid, b. Jedburgh
Isabella Turnbull 50, Domestic Cook, b. Crailing Rox.
Address: Bonjedward Keuk (messy transcript!), Jedburgh
If we have the right entry for Charlotte in Lilliesleaf in 1871, she looks to have married in England :'( post census in 1861, with the children showing as born there (I can't easily see the marriage in Scotland) and then shows in Lilliesleaf in 1871. A check of any of the Scottish born children would help to confirm marriage place and date*
John Falla 34, Blacksmith (master Employing 1 Boy), b. Lilliesleaf
Charlotte Falla 33, b. Jedburgh
William Falla 6, b. England
Jane Falla 3, b. England
Address: Dunstan Hends House, Lilliesleaf
One thought that has just struck me, having done potential census entries chronologically, is that in 1862 we have George Taylor reference of visiting Charlotte, Jean's married sister in Lilliesleaf. John Falla and wife Charlotte Turnbull would have to had married in 1861/2 and be living in Lilliesleaf at that point before England.....all getting a bit stretched without any facts :-\
Monica
* IGI entry for a child to John Falla and Charlotte Turnbull:
JOHN DODDS FALLA Birth: 24 AUG 1871 Lilliesleaf, Roxburgh, Scotland
That middle name of Dodds points to those earlier census entries for a granddaughter Charlotte in the Dodds household.
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John Falla, b. in Lilliesleaf in 1837 is potentially working with the Dodds family in 1861 (and probably how he met and married Charlotte you would think). His likely entry in 1861:
John Dodds 55, Blacksmith Employing 3 Men, b. Jedburgh
Christina Dodds 57, wife
John Falla 24, blacksmith journeyman, b. Lilliesleaf
John Cray 20
John Salvail 18
Address: Bonjedward, Jedburgh
Trying to figure out how all of this connects us back to Jean :-\
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Thanks for all your help. I had looked at your earlier information regarding Charlotte and looked at the Census details.
When Charlotte Turnbull was 6 she was living at Bonjedward in the same house as Jane Dods who was 20 in the 1841 Census. Now Jane Dods was George Taylor's second wife and I am presuming that this was she. I wonder if when he wrote his autobiographical memoir he confused his wives sisters. What do you think? (I noticed that the spelling can be Dods and Dodds).
Also I notice that the Jean Whealance/Wheelens/Whillans who we have traced in the 41/51 and 61 Census, then disappears, so we must assume she is the same Jane who left with George Taylor for Kalamazoo.
He does refer to Jane as "our cousin" and I wonder if Jane Whellans was a cousin of Jane Dods. After all they were both born in Jedburgh. This may be a bit farfetched but who knows!!
Anyway that's my latest idea although I can, so far, find no record of any birth for Jane Whellans.
What a puzzle!!
Brina
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Brina
You have read the book on George's Travels ;) Is there any reference to George Taylor's first wife's name. You will laugh....from IGI:
JANE DODDS and GEORGE TAILOR
Marriage: 26 NOV 1841 Jedburgh, Roxburgh
Monica
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Monica,
I have read the book but have returned it to the library. However I had noted that George Taylor married Helen Robson 1837, then Jane Dodds 1842, Jane Whellans 1863 and then finally Susan Carter in 1870.
There are two references in SP to marriage. This was confusing me as George's name was spelt Tailor and Taylor. Taylor at Eckford, for which I downloaded the details and Tailor in Jedburgh which would have been Jane's church I suppose. The record for Eckford was really just giving information that the banns were called in Eckford and Jedburgh and they were married in Jedburgh. It gave the name of the minister but no further details. No father or mother or witnesses.
Brina
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I should have mentioned that George provided very little details of his wives. He appeared to do most of his travelling without them apart from taking wives 2 and 3 to Kalamazoo.
Wife 4 was brought over to Scotland and England for a visit, George's last visit over here, and he made a comment in the book that it was much more expensive travelling with a wife.
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:o So there could be a connection? Didn't realise there was a potential connection to the Dodds name for George.
This looks like the George and Jane from the marriage in 1851 - going by the children showing on IGI:
George Taylor 48, Nurseryman Journeyman, b. Morebattle
Jane Taylor 33, b. Jedburgh
Isabella Taylor 8, b. Eckford, Roxburghshire
Andrew Taylor 6, b. Eckford, Roxburghshire
George Taylor 4, Kelso, Roxburghshire
James Taylor 1, b. Kelso, Roxburghshire
Address: Forrestfield, Kelso
Re George's travel preferences, what can I say ;D
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I also saw this marriage and wondered if this could be Charlotte's parents:
ISABELLA DODDS and THOMAS TURNBULL
Marriage: 15 FEB 1833 Jedburgh
Monica
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It's probably not relevant to this thread, but a WHILLANS is mentioned in an article in the Summer 2009 issue of the Borders Family History Society Magazine.
Eleanor Lillico writes about her great-grandfather Robert Lillico and his brother James who emigrated to Canada in 1845. They were following in the footsteps of their sister Jane who went out with her husband John WHILLANS of Southdean between 1834 and 1837 "... with the Robert WHILLANS' families [sic] who settled in Gloucester Township, Junction Gore (now the Queensway at Hurdman)."
The first child of John WHILLANS and Jane Lillico was born in 1834 in Scotland, the second in 1837 in Canada.
Harry
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Just to confuse everyone I have just received another e-mail from Kalamazoo Library and it reads -
I checked a couple of other sources in our collection and could find no mention of the marriage between Jane Whellans and George Taylor. I did locate Jane’s cemetery listing which lists her as Jane Wallace Taylor and mention of her in another index in our collection that lists her as Jane Williams Taylor. I’m afraid that rather than helping you narrow the search, I’ve only found more name possibilities.
I am just wondering though if Wallace and Williams are meant to be Whellans.
Any ideas gratefully received.
Brina
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Yes indeed, the name WHELLANS has many variant spellings even in Scotland, and in the States I can imagine that people unfamiliar with it tried to make it into something more familiar and pronounceable.
Harry
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Agree Harry, most likely a variant of Whellans!
Monica :)
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I'm sorry Kalamazoo Library couldn't help with the marriage of Jane Whellans to George Taylor.
They could look for George Taylor's marriages - he married Jane in Jan 1863 and later married Susan Carter in 1870.
What about her death certificate? She died in Kalamazoo in October 1863.
'Morag'
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I did wonder about a death cert. Morag. Not sure whether death certificates for this period included details on parents etc. Also, not sure how death entries for this period could be accessed (I know the later ones get very complicated!). Maybe the lady at the library could advice.
Monica :)
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I will get back to the Kalamazoo library to ask if they can access any of the death records. However they have given me a list of researchers to assist if I wish further information which probably indicates that they have given me as much information or as much of their time as they can. :(
I do not really want to go down the road of paying anyone so may have to lay this to rest until further information is available on the internet or until someone else can help us here. ???
Brina
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I'm sorry you've drawn a blank at Kalamazoo library.
I've emailed George Taylor's gt. gt. gt. grandson in California to ask if he knows how the records system works in America and to ask if he has any more information. He had already sent me the death announcements of GT's wife Jane Dodds from the Kalamazoo Gazette (1860) who died of consumption, TB. His last wife, Susan Carter, died in 1889 and the announcement was in the Kalamazoo Weekly Telegraph.
I wondered if he'd got an announcement about Jane Whellans as he'd
got the one about Susan Carter who isn't related to the present family either.
Another idea would be to try a letter to the local paper in the Borders, the Southern Reporter. I've had a look, " Contributions should be emailed to BOTH derekforrest[at]tweeddalepress.co.uk and susanwindram[at]tweeddalepress.co.uk."
They often publish letters from people looking for ancestors.
I wonder if Kalamazoo has a family history society? Try the web.
I can't think of any more places to look but her birth must be recorded here in Scotland somewhere!
'Morag'
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [at] with @
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I did get back to Kalamazoo Public Library and they have now found Jane Wheelans cemetery listing which they are posting out to me. I am trying not to get too excited about what information might be contained in it but as soon as I do receive it I shall post the information here.
Morag - it would be great if you manage to get more information from George's gt. gt. gt. grandson - thank you so much for contacting him.
What an amazing puzzle this is. ;)
Brina
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Pity they can't send as attachment via email....but then I am so impatient ::) That's great news Brina, they have been incredibly helpful there :)
Monica
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Yes Monica I was also hoping for an e-mail attachment but thought I should not chance my luck by requesting the information that way when they had offered to post it. Here's hoping we at least get some info that can be of use.
Brina
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I received an envelope from Kalamazoo Public Library today and could hardly contain myself before opening it and then - what a disappointment! All it contained was a burial record from Mountain Home Cemetery, City of Kalamazoo which lists a Jane Wallace Taylor who died Feb 12 1864. That is all the information on it apart from the Block No. O.P and the Lot No 417.
The local history staff also sent a note to say that their index cards have the same date but for a Jane Williams Taylor.
I was just about to think that this had all been a waste of time because the dates do not match the dates in the book until I noticed the name above Jane's and it is Jane Dodds Taylor and it is the same Lot No. 417. The date on the Burial Record for Jane Dodds is Sept 18 1860.
I then started to look for others buried in Lot No 417 named Taylor and they are: -
Andrew Taylor Aug 1863 (19y 8 m)
George Taylor 31 Aug 1891 (88y 6m)
James A Taylor 15 Jan 1935
John P Taylor 26 Mar 1894 (39 yrs)
So I am now thinking that the person named Jane Wallace (Williams) Taylor is our Jane Whellens after all although I still do not have any more information about her.
Any more suggestions anyone?
Brina :-\
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Hard luck, Brina, it's horrible when your expectations are high, then you get let down. But at least you're getting mail. Are you in the US? There is a rolling programme of postal strikes in the UK, and here in Edinburgh the postal workers keep having wildcat strikes at the drop of a hat, so I'm waiting impatiently for several items of mail that should have come ages ago. Two of them are of a genealogical nature. Another is an information pack for a charity I expressed an interest in. They are now including me in email shots, but I still haven't received their information pack, let alone confirmed that I'm interested in volunteering!
Back to Whellans - you know how you look up a B., M. or D. certificate on Scotlandspeople and sometimes the other entries on the page are of more interest? Today I was looking up the death of someone called Brydon, and on the same page of the Wilton deaths-register for 1883 there was a death-certificate for Jean CLARK, 42, widow of John CLARK, grocer, daughter of Andrew WHELLANS, general labourer, and Isabella WALKER.
Maybe that will be of interest to somebody.
Harry
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Just found the following on a Kalamazoo Mountain Home Cemetery website: -
Taylor, George Birth:1803 Death:1891 Interment:1/1/1891 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:1
Taylor, Susan Carter Birth:1821 Death:1889 Interment:1/1/1889 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:2
Taylor, Andrew Birth:1844 Death:1863 Interment:1/1/1863 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:3
Taylor, Jane Willence Birth:No Date Death:No Date Interment:1/1/1864 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:5 Sexton shows maiden name as Wallace
Taylor, John P. Birth:No Date Death:No Date Interment:3/26/1894 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:6
Taylor, John D. Birth:1855 Death:1894 Interment:3/26/1894 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:7 Sexton shows middle initial as P.
Taylor, James A. Birth:1849 Death:1935 Interment:1/15/1935 Blk:I Sec:417 Lot:12 Owner of Kalamazoo Nursery - Bedding Plants
Strangely enough Jane Dodds Taylor not mentioned on this one.
I see that our Jane Whellens is now recorded as Willence.
And so it goes on............... ???
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Hi Harry,
Thanks for your commiserations. I am in the Scottish Borders, Peebles in fact. Interesting about Andrew Whellans, I will keep that in mind in case I need to look at those details some time.
Brina
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Hello Brina
I've been following your search for Jane Whellans and as she didn't go to America until Dec 1862, she must be on the 1861 census here in the Borders, probably Roxburghshire.
She could have been working at Grahamslaw then but there's just a chance she might have been at home with her family. I know this is clutching at straws but you're running out of options!
I'm sure I read somewhere that she was 40 when she died in October 1863 so her birth or christening in 1823 must be recorded - I'd start in Morebattle if the Whellans family lived there. All the records will be in the Heritage Hub in Hawick, you'll get a leaflet at the local tourist office.
Have you asked the Borders Family History Society if any of theit members are researching Whellans or similar names?
Morag
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Hi Morag
As you can see, the search for Jane's origins has continued. Jane does show in 1851 and 1861 censuses, working as a domestic servant/housekeeper, down as born in Jedburgh. From a previous post:
In 1862 Kelso native George Taylor came back to the old country from the States, and - being a widower by then - proposed to Jane Whillans, whom he obviously knew of old. He tells us she "had a good situation as housekeeper at Grahamslaw", and I checked this out in the 1861 census of Eckford parish. Jane was then 35, and claimed to be a native of Jedburgh. A "good situation" indeed - her employer Charles Cunningham, a farmer with 750 acres and 21 farm-workers - was only 18 years old!
Even with all the good material provided by the Kalamazoo Public Library and the further research undertaken by Brina, we are still struggling to connect her to her family :-\
Good ideas from you regarding possible further research avenues :)
Monica
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It's a while since we gave the WHILLANS/WHELLANS name an airing, so perhaps the following will be of interest.
I've just been trying to trace marriages and deaths for the 12 brothers and sisters of my great-grandmother Martha STEWART, who was born circa 1853 in Wilton, Hawick.
I knew already that her eldest sister Jane Murray STEWART married a George WHILLANS in 1872 at Upper Samieston, Jedburgh. He was the son of George WHILLANS and Mary OLIVER, and was born in 1844 at Camptown, Jedburgh. I know of descendants of this couple in Jedburgh and on Vancouver Island, Canada.
I haven't found another marriage of a STEWART to a WHILLANS, but it's interesting that in 1891 my Martha's sister Agnes STEWART and her husband John JACKSON are living at Southdean, and their immediate neighbours are James and Elizabeth OLIVER, while the next cottage is occupied by William and Agnes WHILLANS, his mother Agnes WHILLANS, aged 73(?), daughter Janet A. WHILLANS (11 months), niece and nephew Agnes WHILLANS (14) and James WHILLANS (16), and stepson William GRIEVE (6). Quite a household.
I can tell you that William's parents were James WHILLANS and Agnes JACK. William was born in 1856 at Easter Fodderlee, Hobkirk. I haven't tried to trace this family any further back.
William WHILLANS married Agnes GRIEVE in 1890 at Chesters, Southdean. And here's an interesting slant. Agnes GRIEVE bore her illegitimate son William GRIEVE in 1885 at Ladhope, and my great-grandmother's sister Agnes STEWART (later Mrs. John JACKSON) had her illegitimate son David Hardie STEWART (called after her brother-in-law!!) at Ladhope in the same year. Then these two JACKSON/STEWART and WHILLANS/GRIEVE couples end up next-door but one to each other in 1891.
Harry
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Hi Harry
As always with this info, don't know how accurate it may be until checked. There is an Ancestral File on www.familysearch.org for the family of James Whillans and Agnes Jack, with the Whillans line for James back to....1688 ::) As I said, not sure how accurate it may be ;)
Monica
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Thanks. It looks fairly plausible as far as these things go.
I mentioned before that in 1891 Wm. and Agnes WHILLANS had their niece and nephew Agnes and James WHILLANS living with them. They turn out to be the children of a Janet WHILLANS, who was obviously William's unmarried sister.
I omitted to mention that my 3 x great-grandfather Hugh STEPHENSON was married to a Jemima WHILLANS, and when she died in 1834 she was buried in Smailholm churchyard. She is a real puzzle, as there are no clues whatsoever as to her identity. A distant cousin of mine in the States is really keen to solve that one, as she is a descendant. Me, I'm descended from Hugh STEPHENSON and his previous girlfriend Alison MOFFAT in Melrose, but I'd still like to know who Jemima WHILLANS was.
Harry
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I have recently been in email contact with Frank Whillans in Melbourne and foud this thread.
Can I make a suggestion about the OPR record for the family Andrew Whellans and Jane Paterson. They are registered in 1855, the year that registration became compulsory. Did famlies have to register previous births? Did Andrew or Jane register the 4 births Wilson, John, Andrew, Jean at the same time following some public notice?
It appears to me that the subsequent change to Whelans or Whilans for Andrew is the fault (no offence meant to any decedants) of the registar and the marriage of Andrew and Agnes Fox, where everyone hs one L and an idistiguishable Wh(e)(i).
I should declare my interest here, my mother-in-law is Elizabeth (Betty) Anderson Whellans born 1917, whose father was Andrew Douglas Whellans married Mary Halliburton Gourlay, son of Andrew Douglas Whellans married to Mary McLeod Broomfield, son of Andrew Whellans and Agnes Fox.
I realise that you have gone in various directions since the original postings but would be happy to share findings about these Andrews in particular.
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What a coincidence that you should mention the name BROOMFIELD. Someone with that middle name figures in the post I made yesterday on the HUGGAN thread -
I've been reading in the sports pages of today's "Scotsman" about the young men of London Scottish rugby football team who were killed in WWI. One of them was a James L. HUGGAN, who was killed in France in 1914, aged 25. He had scored a try in the last Scotland v. England rugby international in Edinburgh.
I've checked Scotlandspeople, and he looks like James Laidlaw HUGGAN, born in 1888 at Allery(?), Jedburgh, to Robert HUGGAN, engineer & millwright, and his wife Isabella Broomfield LAIDLAW. This couple were married in 1880 at Duns, Berwickshire.
Harry
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I omitted to mention that my 3 x great-grandfather Hugh STEPHENSON was married to a Jemima WHILLANS, and when she died in 1834 she was buried in Smailholm churchyard. She is a real puzzle, as there are no clues whatsoever as to her identity. A distant cousin of mine in the States is really keen to solve that one, as she is a descendant. Me, I'm descended from Hugh STEPHENSON and his previous girlfriend Alison MOFFAT in Melrose, but I'd still like to know who Jemima WHILLANS was.
Harry
When my 5 x great-grandfather William STEPHENSON drew up his last will and testament in 1807 at Langburnshiels farm, parish of Hobkirk, he had it witnessed by his farm servant Robert WHILLANS. Does anybody have any information on Robert?
Harry
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It's not usually advisable to mention living people on these forums but I think I may be permitted to quote this extract from an article about the Hawick Common Riding in today's Scotland on Sunday -
"At the sight of the Cornet and riders, none cheers louder than Charles Whillans, known as Chuck or Mr Common Riding, a small jovial man in a blazer. At 87, he is the oldest living former Cornet, having discharged that duty in 1948. He hopes, he says, to have his coffin draped in the blue and gold flag; though, of course, his many friends in Hawick pray that day is far off. It was Helen Ford who pointed him out to me. Whillans is the first Cornet she remembers; he visited her school in his green tailcoat when she was five. Now both are old but seem young. "Here's my Common Riding kiss", she says, pecking his cheek. "Thanks bonnie lass", he replies."
Harry
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Hi are you still pursuing the Whellans family history? I am in Melbourne Australia and have just uncovered a treasure trove for you! My grandmother was Evelyn Grace Whellans born 20/08 1899 in Prahran Victoria Australia (she married Reginald Joseph Bowerman Thomspon on 4/08/1919 and they had three children Meryl Kathleen Thompson (my mother) Russell Stanley Thompson and Reginald Neil Thomspon) she had a sister Mary Alison Stewart Whellans born 1883. Their parents were Robert John Whellans and Mary Elizabeth Baxter . I also found the link with Morebattle as I have a original "Lines written in Memory" of Alison Stewart Whellans (a poem) dated Morebattle 9th June 1876 so I presume my great Aunt was named after her! I have photos of them as children and my middle names are Alison and Eve :) I also have lots of birth, death, marriage certificates and personal letters and wills! The family predominately live in St Kilda Victoria Australia. My grandmother died in in approx 1947. I would love to hear from either of you two...my email is info@mpgetawayz.com.au Cheers Faith I also have personal letters written from Morebattle