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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: DFord on Monday 09 February 09 20:08 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if it's possible to research the history of a house that no longer exists?
I'm researching my father's life (he died when I was four) and would like to find out when he bought the house they lived in when I was born, from whom and anything about when it was built.
I contacted the local history society but they could not help.
I'd appreciate any advice.
Dave
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Hi Dave
Did your father have a will? If so the solicitors may also have held the deeds of the property. All property details are held at the land registry office as far as I remember when we had to sort out my fathers house after he died. If you search on line for their details you may be able to contact them. If he owned the property the deeds would list all the previous owners and who built the property and who brought the land. We have ours and it makes quite interesting reading. Good luck with your research.
Regards panda
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Thank you for your reply.
The problem I have is that this was all a very long time ago - 1955 to be precise. Yes, my father left a will but the house is not mentioned in it. We believe that he must have put it in my mother's name before he died. Unfortunately I did not become interested in my family history until after my mother's death and my older sister was not privy to any such information. My mother could not afford the upkeep of the house and sold it to developers who built five new houses on the site.
I've looked at the Land Registry website but as far as I can see they will not help with family history enquiries and they seem to only deal with current land/properties.
We think the house would have been built in the 1800's as it was a 'merchant's house'. We can't identify it on the census because it seems to have been renamed at some time.
I just wondered if there are any records held by archives which would give information on such a property. I could contact the archives but would need to know what to ask for if paying them to do the research for me.
Many thanks
Dave
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Not sure if it's the same in England (I live in Northern Ireland) but when we bought a brand new house a few years ago we were presented with the 'deeds' (not a lovely folded document but about 6 inches thick paperwork- spiral bound copies of the history of our site- detailing all sorts things about the neighbours, when various sections were sold off, etc., as well back to when our property was one large piece of land in 1800s. Maybe you could try contacting the currect owners of the houses built there to see if they can help.
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A few more ideas:
Voters lists
Trade Directories
Phone Books
Rate books
If you post the address then those of us with access to directories etc can have a dig around for you.
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Don't forget the London Gazette (not just for London!) http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/
Your main problem seems to be that you have a name (you're not sure of the number, or it just doesn't appear on the censuses?). In that case, you need to find something from the later years that shows what the neighbouring houses were - they probably weren't all renamed at the same time.
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Try the local council for planning permision. When the house got knocked down the person would have had to apply for permission to build the new houses. This strikes me as a good place to start. Please post the address and then we can al help.
regards panda
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Thank you for these ideas. It might not be so eary to contact the present occupants of the new houses but it's certainly something I'll consider when I next visit, although that might not be for a long time.
The house was Lansdowne House, 4 St Mary's Road, Huyton, Liverpool. My father, William Edward Ford, bought it sometime in the late 1930s/early 1940s we think. According to Liverpool Archives he was in Hunts Cross in the 1938 Kelly's street directory.
I did find the house in one directory owned by Eaton Hall Jun., Wine Merchant but the interesting thing is that in previous directories Eaton Hall Sen. owned a house called Melrose on the same street so we do not know if this was the same house renamed or two different houses.
My sister was told a story that the house was once known as 'The Wedding Cake' as it was built for the Earl of Lansdowne on his marriage. I suspect that this was just a story! I can find no connection between Huyton and the Marquess of Lansdowne, nor could the local history society.
Thank you again for your help.
Dave
PS. Just noticed two more posts, I have tried gazettes-online and found nothing. I haven't tried the local council so that could be a good place to start.
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Hi try the following web site lots of maps and pictures. small world my rellies come from Huyton as well.
http:/history.knowsley.gov.uk/huyton.html
good luck Dave
regards panda
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Possibly its already been mentioned...
But the Electoral Rolls for the area that you're interested in should be able to help.
When I was trying to do the same thing a few years back now, I contacted the Archivist at the Library nearest to where I was looking; who was very helpful.
Romilly.
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Occupier in 1938 was Albt J Oxton (per Kelly's)
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Amongst a few hits on Google Books:
Rugby School register 1886: "'Higgin William Sinclair,
son of Thomas Higgin, Esq. Lansdowne House, Huyton, aged 14"
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Liverpool Mercury:
1881-8 ads for Lansdowne House, Huyton, a "high-class ladies school" run by Mr and the Misses Hughes
1894-5: a number of "to let" notices for Lansdowne House, Huyton, house with 9 bedrooms, 3 entertaining rooms, conservatory etc. Agent was J Westmorland, 27 Seymour Street
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The Times:
1917: marriage of Flight Commander Walter KFG Warneford RNAS son of Mr & Mrs Walter Warneford of Lansdowne House, Huyton.
(EDIT - the engagement is in Flight archives http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1917/1917%20-%201258.html)
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Good grief! I can't believe you've found so many references to Lansdowne House!
Thank you so very much. Now I just need to read through again slowly and take it all in!
From the engagement in the Times it would seem that Lansdowne House was not the same house as Melrose after all. It's all very interesting!
Thanks again
Dave
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From the 1938 Kelly's Directory, it seems that Lansdowne House was more or less the first house on the right, if you enter from The Orchard end, the next house along being Huyton Hey House. Was it on the corner with what is now The Park?
It doesn't seem to be listed in the 1911 or 1914 Directories.
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Yes, Lansdowne was the first house on the right, apart from a smaller cottage which was the gardener's cottage and it was on the corner with what is now The Park with Huyton College grounds on the other side.
Dave
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I did find the house in one directory owned by Eaton Hall Jun., Wine Merchant
He's listed there in Gore's 1900 Directory and in the 1901 census ( no house name but it's the first household listed after The Orchard; the next household is definitely Huyton Hey House )
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1881-8 ads for Lansdowne House, Huyton, a "high-class ladies school" run by Mr and the Misses Hughes
It's a ladies' school in the 1881 census. Mr Hughes isn't there but his wife Eliza and daughters are listed: RG11/3722/115/ 22
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Not listed in Kelly's 1894 Directory but it seems to have been empty at that time per the "to Let" notices in the Mercury.
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Thank you Shaun.
You've certainly given me some food for thought. I've printed off the 1881 Census from Ancestry - I wonder if the house was anything to do with the buildings which became Huyton College. The only thing that puzzles me is the reference to the Rugby School register 1886 because if it was a ladies school then who was Thomas Higgin Esq?
Armed with these snippets of information I'm going to write to the Liverpool Archives to see what else they can find for me. Hopefully this will give them some indication of where to look for information.
Thanks again
Dave
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The date on that Google Books reference must be something other than the publication date. William S. Higgin the son of Thomas Higgin, salt manufacturer, was born Ormskirk in 1856 or thereabouts. The family is living in Tarbock Road, Roby in 1881. William would have been 14 in 1870. He's in the 1871 census at Rugby aged 15 (indexed as William H Higgin RG10/3185/19/32).
Ah! I've just found Thomas Higgin at Lansdowne House in 1871 ! RG10/3856/101/ 23
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That's great. I was hoping I could try and track the house back through the census somehow although I don't have an Ancestry subscription at the moment - are you able to give me a transcript of the 1871?
Cheers
Dave
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I've put together a timeline for Lansdowne House based on the information found. Hopefully this should help Liverpool Archives to trace it.
I'm still baffled as to whether Lansdowne House and Melrose are one and the same. Eaton Hall Jun was at Lansdowne House in 1901 (as mentioned already), Major Eaton Hall and his son Pte Eaton Hall's address was Melrose in 1915 (I have their Medal Index cards), and Major Eaton Hall Jun lived at Melrose in 1936, the same year that Lansdowne House was sold to Albert Oxton (according to local history society).
There's still a lot to find but I'm very grateful for all the help you've given me.
cheers
Dave
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Hi again
I've discovered that Walter Kemeys Francis Goodhall Warneford was killed in 1919 in an airship (NS11) that was hit by lightening over the North Sea. The website states that his family home was Lansdowne House, Huyton.
Would someone now be willing to look at Walter Warneford in the British Phone Books on Ancestry for me? I'd like to check if the one appearing for 1921 -1924 is his father Walter W H Warneford and if the address is Lansdowne House.
Many thanks
Dave
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Yes that's him Dave, at Lansdowne House. HUYton 163
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Thank you Shaun!
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Major Walter Wyndham Hanbury Warneford OBE was a Mechanical Engineer. Born Halifax in July 1866, son of Canon John Henry Warneford.
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Funnily enough we found him (Walter Wyndeham Hanbury Warneford) on the 1881 Census - just up the road from us in Clewer, Berkshire. We're in Maidenhead!
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I think this is him, though some of the details don't quite tally:
"Warneford, Walter Wyndham Hayden
Works manager at Crewe from 1910 to 1916, he was a son of the church, being born in Wiltshire in 1866. His father was a canon of Salisbury cathedral. He began as an apprentice at Miles Platting works of the LYR in 1882, but in 1883 transferred to Crewe as a premium, and then as a pupil of Webb. In March 1889 he became an assistant at the steel plant, then assistant manager having charge of 'the melts' and the iron and steel foundries. This appointment he held until his promotion to works manager. A dapper little man, he looked diminutive alongside Cooke's 6ft. They worked together without any obvious friction, but were never wholly en rapport. In April 1916 Warneford was made wagon superintendent at Earlestown and retired soon after the formation of the LMSR. His only son lost his life in the 1914-19 war, and he was a relation of the VC, Lieutenant Warneford, who brought down a Zeppelin in France in 1915. "
from http://www.steamindex.com/people/crewe.htm
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His OBE was awarded in 1920 ( Gazette 30 March)
"Walter Wyndham Hanbury Warneford, Esq Wagon Superintendent, London and North-Western Railway"
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/
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I've put together a timeline for Lansdowne House based on the information found. Hopefully this should help Liverpool Archives to trace it.
I'm still baffled as to whether Lansdowne House and Melrose are one and the same. Eaton Hall Jun was at Lansdowne House in 1901 (as mentioned already), Major Eaton Hall and his son Pte Eaton Hall's address was Melrose in 1915 (I have their Medal Index cards), and Major Eaton Hall Jun lived at Melrose in 1936, the same year that Lansdowne House was sold to Albert Oxton (according to local history society).
There's still a lot to find but I'm very grateful for all the help you've given me.
cheers
Dave
Hi , I realise that this is a post from some years ago. Thought you may be interested that my Dad and mum bought Melrose in 1960. I lived there for 10 years and my family owned the house until the mid 80s.Initially it was numbered 50 St Marys Road but later on was re numbered as 60. As you can inagine I have many happy memories of living there--and also lots of photos!
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Hi Yvonne
Thanks for your email. Your surname rings a bell for some reason though I can't think why!
This has confirmed our suspicion that Melrose was a completely different house to Lansdowne which was demolished around the mid 1950s. 5 houses were built on its grounds. It backed onto the girl's college. The gardeners cottage was still there about 15 years ago. We have photos.
If you want to contact me my I will send my e-mail address by pm.
Regards
Dave