RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Abie on Tuesday 10 February 09 12:07 GMT (UK)
-
I would like to search the 1891 census by address. From previous posts it would appear possible, BUT HOW?
Being of a persuasion that's careful with money, the next question is, can I do it for free?
Abie
-
nothing is free ! FH overall isnt an expensive hobby tho ......
You will need access to the 1891 census which will involve a subscription or pay to view - or buy a set of Discs on EBay, which depending on the source provider may have a street index.
You might try googling the parish and 1891 census - there are sites around where the census has been transcribed, might get lucky, but they wont have the original enumerators pages online !
:)
-
There are ways by using directories which I have done many times :) What address are you looking for.?
Stan
-
Directories are indeed excellent - however they fall short of the information about a household typically found in the census.
-
The Genealogist (http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk) has search by address on most censuses, but it's a pay site. As Newf says, nothing is for free, although I would be happy to do the odd lookup for you :)
-
I am able to search the 1891 by address, if you will tell us what it is.
Jennifer
-
Find My Past has an address search function for the 1891 - it's also a sub/pay to view site.
Gadget
-
Have you tried http://www.freecen.org.uk
They have the 1891 Census but I don't know how complete it is
-
http://www.freecen.org.uk/statistics.html#1891
a long way from complete, altho Beds, Warks and a couple more claim to be 100%
-
I really am truly amazed not only by the speed of response to the queries I've raised, but the generosity of the people on this site.
The address's and occupants I'm interested in, in the 1891 census, are 14 and 31 Murphy Street, London, SE1. These were the addresses of both my maternal (McCarthy) and paternal (Rogers) great grandparents in 1895.
Abie
-
So many responses. Thank you all. To those of you who mentioned Freecen, yes I've tried it, without success. In any event, it doesn't give addresses.
Abie
-
I really am truly amazed not only by the speed of response to the queries I've raised, but the generosity of the people on this site.
The address's and occupants I'm interested in, in the 1891 census, are 14 and 31 Murphy Street, London, SE1. These were the addresses of both my maternal (McCarthy) and paternal (Rogers) great grandparents in 1895.
Abie
I'm afraid that Murphy Street is not listed in the 1891 census, according to The Genealogist, although the neighbouring Frazier Street is. Murphy Street is listed in the 1901 census address lookup.
-
Directories are indeed excellent - however they fall short of the information about a household typically found in the census.
I know that, but that is not what I meant. I usually find someone living in the street and look for them in the census, if still there it is then easy to look for the number of the house required and get the full census entry. Of course usually only certain people such as trades people are listed and not every house is in the directory, and this means that not all streets are listed but adjacent street are.
Stan
-
I'm afraid that Murphy Street is not listed in the 1891 census, according to The Genealogist,
It isn't in the index on findmypast either.
-
Nick29, on a certificate of marriage issued by St. George's Cathedral, Lambeth, the address is shown as Murphy Street, Oakley Street, if that helps.
Abie
-
Victorian London A-Z Street Index
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/lon-str.html
Oakley Street SOUTHWARK [1899]
Murphy Street SOUTHWARK [1899]
Stan
-
Here is the immediate area
1) on a map of 1865,
2) on a map of 1897
On the earlier map Murphy Street is called Charles street. Which does appear on the 1891 index.
-
No sign (as far as I can see) of a Rogers or McCarthy in either Oakley Street or Charles Street in 1891. Looks like the area was redeveloped to enlarge the public baths ?
Abie, have you searched for these families elsewhere in 1891 ? People were quite mobile in those days.
-
Nick29, the families were in Murphy Street off Oakley Street.
I'm attempting to find the names of both my great grandmothers. I know that my maternal great grandfather was Richard McCarthy and the paternal one John Rogers, but I've no idea of the names of their spouses.
Abie
-
No sign (as far as I can see) of a Rogers or McCarthy in either Oakley Street or Charles Street in 1891.
Nick29, the families were in Murphy Street off Oakley Street.
Abie, there is no Murphy Street on the 1891 index. It seems to me possible that the road was re-named shortly after the census. There was a great deal of street re-naming in London about this time.
As Nick has said, families were extremely mobile at that time, and it is possible they were living elsewhere in Lambeth.
Jennifer
-
Stan, what an incredible resource the Victorian A-Z street index is. What a pity there are no maps to go with it.
Abie
-
JenB, looking again at those maps you posted, it looks very much as though your conclusions, and therefore Nick 29's, are right.
Abie
-
Lots of excellent London maps here http://archivemaps.com/mapco/london.htm
-
Nick29, the families were in Murphy Street off Oakley Street.
I'm attempting to find the names of both my great grandmothers. I know that my maternal great grandfather was Richard McCarthy and the paternal one John Rogers, but I've no idea of the names of their spouses.
Abie
OK, here's what I would do........ find the birth date of their first child. The parents will very likely to have married in the same year or the previous one.
You should have the christian names of the wives from the censuses. If you can post the christian names of the wives, and the year of birth of the first child in each case, I will use the old "Find people on same page" Ancestry feature. And the place of birth of the wives would be handy too. No guarantees that I'll find them, though.
-
Sorry Nick29, I just don't have any of the info you ask for.
I've picked-up my paternal great grandfather's name from the 1911 census, where he lived with my grandfather who doubtless was not his first child, because he was 38 when my grandfather was born.
As for my maternal great grandparents, all I have is a certificate of marriage for my grandmother, on which my great grandfather's name is shown. While my grandmother was 18 at the time, I've no idea how old my great grandfather was or whether my grandmother was his first child. So it goes, my grandmother was brought-up in an orphanage somewhere in the Lambeth area with her brother. I don't know her brothers name or age, nor am able to find a birth registration for her. I know the orphanage bit is somewhat contradictory because her father was at her wedding, but that's the story!
Abie
-
I usually find someone living in the street and look for them in the census
Thanks for that tip, Stan :)
Paulene :)
-
Sorry Nick29, I just don't have any of the info you ask for.
I've picked-up my paternal great grandfather's name from the 1911 census, where he lived with my grandfather who doubtless was not his first child, because he was 38 when my grandfather was born.
As for my maternal great grandparents, all I have is a certificate of marriage for my grandmother, on which my great grandfather's name is shown. While my grandmother was 18 at the time, I've no idea how old my great grandfather was or whether my grandmother was his first child. So it goes, my grandmother was brought-up in an orphanage somewhere in the Lambeth area with her brother. I don't know her brothers name or age, nor am able to find a birth registration for her. I know the orphanage bit is somewhat contradictory because her father was at her wedding, but that's the story!
Abie
Abie, why don't you tell us what you do know, because many of us have access to data (like Ancestry, FindMyPast, parish records on CD, etc) that you may not have access to. Include as many details as you can dates and places of birth, and first names of wives - whatever you have. Roots Chatters love a challenge ! :)
Please don't post details of anyone who is still alive, but if you feel it's important you can send these details via a personal message. I've struggled in the past, and sometimes a helping hand from others is all the spur you need.
Nick.
-
Here's the poser:
On the paternal side , according to the 1911 census, my grandfather John Rogers was living at 10, Hargreave Place, Bermondsey with his wife, my grandmother Margaret (nee McCarthy) 6 children and his father, also named John. His father, my great grandfather, is recorded as being 71 years old, having been born in Union Hall, Cork, Ireland. I suspect my great grandfather, having been born circa 1840, would probably have come to England following the potato famine in 1845. My task is to find anything further about him and the name and details of my great grandmother too.
On the maternal side, I have a certificate of marriage issued by St, George's Cathedral, Lambeth, dated 20th January, 1915, showing that my grandmother, Margaret McCarthy, of 31 Murphy Street, daughter of Richard McCarthy, married John Rogers, son of John Rogers, living at 14, Murphy Street, Oakley Street, on 23 December, 1895. The streets mentioned were adjacent to the present Waterloo Station. The GRO record of my grandmother's marriage shows her name, wrongly, as McClarthy. Her date of birth is said to be 21st August, 1877. However, I've been unable to trace her in the GRO birth records. Again, I'm seeking further details on her, particularly the story that she and a brother were brought up in an orphanage, my great grandfather and also the name and details of my great grandmother.
St. Georges Cathedral has confirmed there was no orphanage attached to the Cathedral. They referred me to the Catholic Children’s Society, who again had no trace, and suggested I contact School Sisters of Notre Dame, about a convent of theirs that existed close to the Cathedral at that time.
Well Nick, you did ask for it! It's a bit of a tome!
Abie
-
As an addendum to the tome, both my grandfather's and grandmother's ages are shown in the 1911 census as being 33 years old.
Abie
-
According to the IGI, there was a Margaret McCarthy born 14 July 1875, in Waterford, Ireland, to a Richard McCarthy and a Catherine Cashman.
Where does the 1911 census say John Rogers was born ?
Nick
-
It's the wrong Margaret McCarthy, Nick. My grandmother of that name, according to the 1901 census, was born at Falcon Court, which according to Stan's Victorian Street Index was in Southwark.
John Rogers, my grandfather, says in the 1911 census, that he was born in Bermondsey.
Abie
-
That address for my grandfather's birth, for what it's worth, was at Suffolk Place, Bermondsey.
Abie
-
I think I found Margaret McCarthy's birth in the GRO - it's Q4 1878, Southwark, 1d 247.
-
It certainly looks a possibility Nick, but I have my doubts. My cousin, who with her mother, lived with my grandmother during. and for a while after, WW2 seems quite certain that her birthday was in August, 1877. Is there any way of determining her parentage without ordering a birth certificate?
Abie
-
Unfortunately not. Part of the wonderful world of genealogy is that you accumulate a few "wrong" certificates. You can have reference checking against known facts (like father's name) when you order the certificate, and if the facts on the certificate don't tally with what you tell them, then they refund £4 out of the £7 you paid.
I would be careful about accepting what relatives tell you as "gospel" - I've had some complete rubbish told to me by some of my cousins ! :)
P.S. There was a Margaret McCarthy registered in St. Giles, London (Middlesex) in Q3 1877 - 1b 611.
-
Abi,
If I'm not sure I have the right certificate I sometimes order from the district register office, where the event was recorded.
I give them all the details of the person I am looking for eg. age, possible informants (death), address, parents (birth), etc and ask them not to send it if it does not match that criteria.
I had two last week which I sent to Sandwell; and, because they didn't match up, they simply returned the cheques to me.
This might not be the case with all offices, but it has certainly been the case with all the ones I have written to.
Hope this helps.
Paulene :)