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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) => Topic started by: JillStatton on Monday 16 February 09 08:41 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone please help me?
What are the names of the parish churches for East Fenton and also Haddington in the 19th century?
Are there any good websites which show pictures of these churches?
My EDINGTON ancestors were largely ploughmen in the area.
Jill Statton, Adelaide, South Australia
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I hadn't heard of East Fenton before which surprised me as I have family in the area.
Found this but I'm sure there are better links.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05le/
As for Haddington, was it Haddington itself, or Haddingtonshire?
I've got photos of a number of churches in the area. Will also recheck a book I have of East Lothian.
Dave
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To confirm, I wish to know the parish churches of East Fenton, Haddington and now also Dirleton, all in Haddingtonshire. Thanks.
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Now, Dirleton, I do know.
Lots of family there. 1760 onwards for sure, possibly earlier.
Sives/Sibbet and variations, Bell, Fortune.......
I'll dig out that book.
Dave
PS - I possibly didn't read your initial post fully. I just perked up when I saw Haddington. ::) :-[
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Jill. sadly, only one very brief mention of Fenton in the book. Same pages as Dirleton.
"Most of the village's (Dirleton) inhabitants were once workers on nearby farms. There were 18 farms in the parish that, until recent times, demanded a considerable manpower. In addition there were freestone quarries, brick and tile works and a maltings at Fenton."
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I would imagine their local church from Fenton was Dirleton (or Chapel??).
Thanks for mentioning Fenton. My knowledge of the area expands! :)
1799 map by William Forrest ....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05lg/
and some photos of Dirleton area
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT5183?by=user
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Sorry to send so many posts but I'm interested and hope to help.
This is East Fenton from Google Maps. Looks like there might be a few older houses just off 'main' road.
Follow the B1345 down from Dirleton.
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Thank you Dave,
The photos are great - love the Dirleton kirk, but does it have another name?
I suspect that East Fenton today is probably still one big farm and not a town or village per se? Glad to be of help myself, for a change....
Jill
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Yes, I did wonder whether there was actually an East Fenton parish church as I could not locate one in my searches. It would seem likely that it was the Dirleton parish church where my EDINGTONs were married - they appear to have been baptised there.
My people were Presbyterian, so there is no question of them being Chapel - is this correct, or am I mixing my metaphors as per the Church of England equivalent?
However, several marriages in 1868-69 took place in East Fenton, Dirleton by William LOGIE, Minister of Dirleton - this info from the actual Marriage certificates, which prompted my initial request.
Jill
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I suspect that East Fenton today is probably still one big farm and not a town or village per se? Glad to be of help myself, for a change....
I don't think it was even that big to be classed a village! I doubt there was more than a few cottages spread throughout the area, with most of the land being taken up by farming use. I have a few ancestors that stayed in the area and they were all argricultural workers. If you wanted anything else, you moved to the city. ;D
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Dirleton Kirk is called Dirleton Kirk.
It's on my list of to dos. To contact the church and find out a bit more of it's history.
Chapel, the place? Like Fenton, I'd only ever heard of it today. The way it is highlighted on the map suggests it is a place name. It must be called that for a reason though. None of my books refer to it.
As for religion, not my expertise in the slightest but 'chapel' suggests to me Catholic, whereas church / kirk suggests the others. You've got the right idea.
If I 'find' any more churches in the area, I'll let you know.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Is Chapel the placename? I assumed it was where the chapel was, same as for Kirk above Dirleton, or was there a place called Kirk too? Jill
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Hi,
I think Chapel is a placename maybe exists as a farm steading now, but on an East Lothian Tourist map it is marked as "historic remains"
http://www.eastlothian.gov.uk/downloads/Map_side1.pdf
Tom
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Hi,
I have just found a reference to Chapel on the NAS site, from 1785. It gives names of 2 tenants of nearby farms, Miss Sydserff of Ruchlaw and Miss Reid of Easter Chapel. This can be searched under ref RHP625/1-2, There was also a Wester Chapel and seemed to be a dispute of extent of local farms etc.
Tom
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Thank you all for your interesting snippets.
My take on Chapel is that there would have been ruins of a chapel in that place but from NAS reference RHP625/1-2 it would appear that in 1785 Easter Chappel and Wester Chappel were property names where the two Misses lived, from which the general area around these properties was called Chapel. NAS plans for 1785 also include buildings at East Fenton, West Chapel etc.
With regard to East Fenton, there is certainly mention of the village of Fenton as part of Dirleton parish in 1868 Imperial Gazetteer of Scotland. Once again, East Fenton would have been the general area taken from East Fenton Farm.
NAS also has various plans of East Fenton Farm from 1844-1937, showing field names and boundaries with acreages and names of adjacent owners - RHP140081-140086.
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Fenton House was a 16th Century fortified Tower House
http://www.fentontower.co.uk/
More information about Dirleton can also be found on Undiscovered Scotland
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/dirleton/dirleton/
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Just a wee foot note that Dirleton also haas what we call a 'castle'. It is very much a ruin, but on good days here we all head down the coast to Yellow Sands Beach and have barbeques. It is just north of North Berwick and just south of Gullane, which is the home of golf in East Lothian. More of a 'Neuk' rather than a village me thinks. Maybe 'Historic Scotland ' site will give you some info.
Regards,
Lynda
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Also forgot to add, you have Gladsmuir which split off from Haddington Parish to form a parish in its own right.
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I see from Jill's post yesterday that she has marriage certificates showing 19th century marriages conducted in East Fenton by the (presumably) Church of Scotland Minister of Dirleton. Perhaps I should mention that this does not imply that the marriage took place in a church, chapel or other place of worship. Many marriages in 19th century Scotland were held in someone's home - sometimes in the minister's manse. The minister probably came to East Fenton and conducted the ceremony in one of the ordinary buildings or homes that were available there.
Jessie
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I see from Jill's post yesterday that she has marriage certificates showing 19th century marriages conducted in East Fenton by the (presumably) Church of Scotland Minister of Dirleton. Perhaps I should mention that this does not imply that the marriage took place in a church, chapel or other place of worship. Many marriages in 19th century Scotland were held in someone's home - sometimes in the minister's manse. The minister probably came to East Fenton and conducted the ceremony in one of the ordinary buildings or homes that were available there.
Jessie
A good point it would have been extremely unusual for a ceremony for an ordinary family to have been conducted in the actual church given the presbyterian attitudes towards the limited uses of the church building.
The practice wasn't confined to the 19th or earlier centuries and was the norm until well into the 20th Century - the most common places of marriage were either the brides home or the ministers own home.
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.... given the Presbyterian attitudes toward the limited uses of the church building.
Good grief - what better use of a church than to sanctify marriage?
What exactly were the limited uses of the church which were acceptable to Presbyterians?
But point taken - my later marriages were definitely in private homes but the earlier ones in 1860's just state East Fenton, or in 1837 merely Dirleton.
However, I would assume my people were actually permitted to attend church services in the parish church so I am still interested in the parish church of Dirleton, or the Dirleton kirk.
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Jill
If anything comes photograph wise up on the other site i mentioned i'll let you know.
Is there anything in Berwickshire you may need at all? I have quite a collection of images around the Border towns if you need anything.
Glen
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Thanks Glen,
Don't suppose you have any pics to do with Socttish ploughmen or their implements?
Moving on a generation, grandfather James Smith EDINGTON, prior to emigrating, was living at home in 1901 at Nether Hailes Farm Cottage in Prestonkirk. Have not yet followed this up, but local knowledge and pics might be a big help, or do I need to start a new thread for this?
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Thanks Glen,
Don't suppose you have any pics to do with Socttish ploughmen or their implements?
Moving on a generation, grandfather James Smith EDINGTON, prior to emigrating, was living at home in 1901 at Nether Hailes Farm Cottage in Prestonkirk. Have not yet followed this up, but local knowledge and pics might be a big help, or do I need to start a new thread for this?
Nothing for Prestonkirk area at the moment i'm afraid,
Ploughmen and implements......although it might be a few weeks (Easter?) before they open for the season proper again the local "big house" has turned the old stable block into a museum with assorted farm equipment from the period. I'll pop down with the camera one weekend and have a look.
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That would be wonderful, Glen. Thanks
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What exactly were the limited uses of the church which were acceptable to Presbyterians?
Basically the early Presbyterians/Calvinists appear to have used their church buildings purely for worship and while Christenings fell under this general heading Marriages did not.
Whether this was anything to do with the separation of Church and marriage under Scots Law in the 16th century I don't know but the attitude of the Church today is miles from where it was even in the early 1900's.
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Well I'll be...! Thanks for that Falkyrn.