RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: RootsChat on Friday 12 March 04 15:48 GMT (UK)
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Uk Fairground Ancesterors - Paulines excellent Circus and Fairworkers Website
http://web.archive.org/web/20150407054631/http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/TravellersUK.html New link August 2019
Traveller Census Information and Baptism, Marriage and Burial Strays
1841, 1851, 1861 1871, 1881 and 1911 Records
http://web.archive.org/web/20040406044019/http://www.nwon.com/pauline/Misc.html
Newspaper Clippings
http://web.archive.org/web/20160914092457/http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/Clippings.html
Fairground Photographers, Ghost Shows and Cinematographic Shows
http://web.archive.org/web/20160330223723/http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/Visual.html
The Twigdon Showmen
http://web.archive.org/web/20160914094748/http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/Twigdon.html
There are some excellent old photographs to have a look at especially Hull Fair. :)
http://web.archive.org/web/20160723172549/http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/TravellersUK.html
Links checked August 2019
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I've found 2 sites which give loads of detailed information regarding travelling shows and fairs, and gypsie travellers.
1) http://web.archive.org/web/20060613054505/http://www.thegalloper.com
2) http://web.archive.org/web/20071012222212/http://romany.rootschat.net
Both give census details, the second site parish records, marriages and more.
Links checked July 2013
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Hi Rootschatters.
I thought some folk might find the following links interesting if they had any ancestors involved in various forms of entertainment long before the advent of Television and Computers.
It's a subject I came across by accident and a very fascinating one at that. Both sites have a lot of interesting stuff and lots of names too.
1.The Showmen, Circus, Fairground and Travellers Ancestry Index"
http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/TravellersUK.html
2. Researching Circus, Fairground, Music Hall, Variety, Magic and pre-TV novelty entertainment
http://web.archive.org/web/20060613054505/http://www.thegalloper.com
Best Regards
Art Birchell
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here are some of the links I've found useful. Sorry if any have already been posted here-I thought it might be helpful to have them listed together
Romany Roots
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/romany_roots
Gypsies and Travellers
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Gypsy-traveller.jsp
Gypsy-Traveller Website
http://www.gypsy-traveller.org
Gypsy Lore Society Collections
http://www.liv.ac.uk/library/sca/colldescs/gypsy
National Fairground Archive in Sheffield
http://www.shef.ac.uk/nfa
Journey Folki
http://www.journeyfolki.org.uk
The Gypsies in Britain
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vgu
Romany & Traveller Family History Society
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/links.html
Monique
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Thanks Monique for the links, especially the last one, which lists loads of baptisms for my Pannell clan, including my great-grandmother, Jane Pannell...... :)
Clara
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Thanks Clara-great to know it was helpful
Monique
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History of Travellers in Hampshire
http://www3.hants.gov.uk/education/ema/travellers/gypsy-history.htm
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A link with a scottish background to some of the families (mainly Faa and Baillie)
http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/
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This isn't a link but thought maybe you'd like to see this !! :) :)
Gypsies
In the 1920's gypsies were a common and colourful sight on the roads around Liverpool, with their horse-drawn caravans. The women made clothes pegs and baskets selling them them from door to door. The men did odd jobs and mended pots and pans.
(http://web.archive.org/web/20070325135621/http://www.merseygateway.org/pastliverpool/galleries/housing/gallery/different/images/large/s21.jpg)
http://liv.ac.uk/library/sca/colldescs/gypsy/families.htm[/img]
Roma (gypsies) in prewar Europe
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005395
Annie :)
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Found this site, which includes a Travellers Remember section:
http://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/
;)
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Great links, Annie and Arranroots ;D
Love the videos from the travellerstimes site, esp the hop-picking one. Really got me thinking again about my traveller ancestors, in terms of how things were for travellers in the 19th century - how they moved about and what they lived in.
I know that my Pannells and Newlands/Proudleys were hawkers from census info (also listed in other documents as pegmakers and basketmakers), and also that my Pannell g-g-grandfather was a seasonal hop-picker. I know that hawkers generally had horses as transport (rather than pedlars who supposedly were on foot), but I'm still interested to know how these forebears moved about - did they have a horse and cart? caravan? tent?
I know from some census and birth cert info that my g-g-grandfather Pannell and his family did live in houses from time to time - certainly by 1881, they were I think in almshouses, then after that in a house? in Horsham.
I also wonder about hop-picking in the mid to latter half of the 19th century - was there accommodation available in the hopfields of Kent, or did hop-pickers have to bring their tents, caravans, etc?
Clara
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I also wonder about hop-picking in the mid to latter half of the 19th century - was there accommodation available in the hopfields of Kent, or did hop-pickers have to bring their tents, caravans, etc?
Clara
there is some useful background here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/voices/living.shtml
monique
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another Kent link
GYPSIES, TRAVELLERS AND OTHER ITINERANTS IN KENT
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gypsy/gypsy.htm
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If you have Loveridge Connections this site could prove very useful:
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=towcester&id=I8147
A large family tree of the Towcester Loveridges and their married relations has been deposited there.
Whilst not useful as a searchable resource, this page threw up some interesting stuff: theres a fabulous painting of the Shaw Family of Cambridge, and an image of the baptism of Selah, daughter of Edmund (No Name) Heron and wife Rose (Lovell).
Gypsy families in Cambridgeshire
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/online/breakingthebarriers/barriers8.htm
This ones my own (without wishing to blow my own trumpet!) - just a load of Censuses, photos, etc that Ive extracted along the way whilst trying to piece together various romany families. It centres on Grays Smiths Herons, Boswells and Bosses, but other names are there, especially when camped with one of the above named families. Its not perfect of course, but it might help some folkis.
Romany References, the Grays and Smith Families from the Midlands
http://web.archive.org/web/20080912094320/http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex.html
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Romany Genes
http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk
Mostly Dorset, Hampshire and the West Country but extending into Surrey etc. - 25 years of research!
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Dont know if you folks know a great website lots of info and census records and baptisms and general info and loads of old pictures and history from the old romany books etc its .
http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.ukSiteowner has been researching for over 25 years! well worth a look even has transported folki.
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Fairground Heritage
http://www.fairground-heritage.org.uk
thank you lorraine
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The link to John M. Turner's "Dictionary of British Circus Biography" Project http://web.archive.org/web/20070916002705/http://www.circusbiography.co.uk is on a few other threads but warrants a place on this thread too. John has 11,000 records in his biographical database, with over 10,500 records of circus visits. He's happy to share this information with other researchers, including family historians, on a reciprocal basis.
The Cornish Funfairs; Detailing the Showmen of the Duchy of Cornwall (http://www.fun-fairs.co.uk/index.php/index.html) website contains an article about Anderton and Rowlands funfair which is probably the oldest firm travelling in Cornwall
The Family Trees (http://www.fun-fairs.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=40621e77d7ac068f5e379c6e27446023) section of fun-fairs.co.uk "All the fun of the Fair" message forum may help RootsChatters who are related to families in the Fun Fair business.
Christopher
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Romani found in American census records
http://lockeroots.home.comcast.net/~lockeroots/GypsyCensusRecords.html
This is an ongoing project, so watch for updates.
Romani DNA project which is open to all Romani regardless where they now live.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/
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Here's a link for those with Welsh Romany ancestors - including some old photos that I don't think have been published elsewhere:
Welsh Romany Link (http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romhome.htm)
Sharon
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Aah I know that site. Rachel Hearn is on that site - a couple of fabulous photos on the page about TJ Lewis (Photographer). Id challenge anyone not to find them both touching and beautiful.
On the actual page that the link refers to, the bottom photo is of KEOMI GRAY and family at Epsom Downs. KEOMI was the daughter of Ossory/Oseri Gray and his wife Eliza Heron/Herring - daughter of Old No Name, who died at Tetford in 1831 with Tyso Boswell after being struck by lightening.
KEOMI is in the waggon, with her husband Charles Bonnett to the left, identifiable by his trademark bowler hat. Prior to her marriage to Charles (in 1875) she had a lengthly liason with the artist Frederick Sandys (Antonio Augustus Frederick Sands) which produced several children.
The two little girls seated in front of the tent are her daughters Florence and Rose Bonnett, with Madeline Gray (her daughter by Fred Sandys) Standing.
Nellie Bonnett sits on the steps, whilst Fred Gray (her son by Fred Sandys) stands holding a fiddle.
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PS if you want to know what KEOMI looked like, according to Dante and Sandys, look no further....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vgz
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This website contains stories and creative digital content which reflects the lives and experiences of the Irish Traveller Community in Tara Park, Liverpool. Translated from
Cant, the Irish Traveller Language, Traveller’s Tairing means Travellers telling Stories. www.travellers-tairing.com
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The name Boswell has cropped up more than once in this section - Gordon Boswell has a website for the Romany Museum near Spalding, Lincs. at
http://www.boswell-romany-museum.com
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Marriages - Gypsies passing through
http://www.circushistory.org/index.htm
Gypsy/travellers on U.K. censuses scroll on left for more censuses, and look for more scrolls to the bottom on actual pages of listings, left & right collumns...
http://romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/#/census1841/4526588075
I can't use "find on page" on this site so hard to find surnames without reading all of the listings...but great site..
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Some circus posters!
http://libweb5.princeton.edu/visual_materials/Circus/TC093.html
better yet, more listed here:
http://www.circushistory.org/links.htm#Posters
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hi i'm new on here but i found a good site the other day
www.romanyroad.co.uk
hope this is interesting for you
barbara
:)
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another good and new site with one of the forums on romany family history
http://members2.boardhost.com/Romany
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some more excellant sites
www.romanyroad.co.uk
and christian romanichals has now moved to a forum on theabove link,
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found this interesting page and thought others may enjoy a read.
Gypsies In Bexley: A Hundred Years On The Belvedere Marshes
www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART38565.html
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Leicestershire Gypsy & Traveller Index http://www.rootschat.com/links/05m9/
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I would like to invite anyone who is serious about researching their Romany family trees to join me on my new message board. There is only 2 topics, Genealogy and Genetic Genealogy.
I started my own message board so I could have more control over the Genetic Genealogy side of the issue, which isn't always allowed to be discussed on some message boards.
But I have separated the 2 discussions because not everyone is interested in the DNA side of the research.
Romany Genealogy message board
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Romany_Genealogy/index.php
There are no religion, no politics, no general chit chat. The only discussions is Genealogy and Genetic Genealogy for the Romnchel DNA project. I will no longer post updates on the Romchel DNA project on the email lists and other message boards, so if this DNA part of the research is of interest to you, the only way to get updates is to join this new message board.
Don
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Hi,
not sure if anyone else posted this already. A good site with fairground and census information
UK Fairground Ancestors
http://members.shaw.ca/pauline777/TravellersUK.html
Jim
Now i noticed that JJ had already posted it before!!
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recently came across this site
ROMBASE -Didactically edited information on Roma
http://romani.uni-graz.at/rombase/index.html
and for a little light reading...
http://romani.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/files/41_resources.shtml
Monique
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Can anybody remember the name of the Romany genealogy site that (sadly) had to shut because of trouble caused on it. Was it Gypsies passing through or is that something else? The ladys surname who ran it was Blackman I think. What a shame it had to close because people couldnt respect others.
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yes it was caslled gypsies passing through and was by jackie blackman
another site has opened in its place called romany/connections wetpaint.com and is run by lance snippetts and cathayb administrators.. it is very friendly and helpful and works exactly like the last one did.it has about 100 members.ypu would be very welcome to join it and participate.
pookerthejib is the moderator on the site and we have no bickering .only politeness and respect,
http//romanyc onnections.wetpai nt.com sorry this site has closed down
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Thanks Cathay I'll take a look after dinner. :)
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Found while Googling!
Rural Media's Travellers' Times website has some interesting looking resources:
http://www.ruralmedia.co.uk/Travellers-Times-.aspx new link
Includes a regular online magazine and educational materials.
http://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/home.aspx?c=10c06632-20d5-481a-a5e7-125c683e7319
Enjoy!
:D 8)
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Yes, you can subscribe to it for free, its government funded I think, we get it through the post!
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please note the old gmb board is now closed but we have revamped and reopened.i have corrected the above links but incase you have missed it here is the new link
http//z10.invisionfree.com/ GypsyMessageBoard1 /index.php link not working
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Leeboy, I tired to save it to my favourites but when you right click the mouse it says 'function disabled'. I'll have a good look anyway thanks. Are you on facebook? I speak to many gypsies on there but it seems to be mostly Irish now.
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If you're researching the real-life Gypsy families that the author George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about in his novels, you might find something of interest here:
http://borrowsgypsies.wordpress.com
I've created the site so I can share my info on these so-called 'Borrow’s Gypsies' of East Anglia, including things like newspaper reports and photos that have never been published online or in print before.
The family names include Smith, Draper, Robinson, Lee, Cooper, Chilcott, Whatnell, Boswell, Hope, Young, Heron, Lovell, Mace, Gray, Shaw, Buckley, Taylor, Pinfold, Gaskin, Brown and Franklin.
Happy hunting! And I look forward to your contributions too.
Best wishes
Sharon
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There are some classic nineteenth-century works on gypsies freely accessible on the Internet Archive [http://www.archive.org/]. These include _In Gipsy Tents_, by Francis Hindes Groome [ http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924028693632], and some early volumes of the _Journal of the Gipsy Lore Society_, for example, vol 1 [http://www.archive.org/details/journalofgypsylo01gypsuoft], vol 2 [http://www.archive.org/details/journalgypsylor01socigoog] and vol 3 [http://www.archive.org/details/journalofgypsyl03gypsuoft].
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pls find/read Gypsys Model by Bill MacFarlane. Its come out just not and is based on story of Keomi Gray n Frederick Sandys whilst recognising it it FACTION: IE a fictional work based on the possible LIVES of real people and anyone instrested in the very real link between Keomi GRAY and her dad Oseri GRAY, and his links to the Heron Family please read this fictional work
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Ann65, sorry to go off topic, Im a newby to Rootschat. Wife is related to Gray on fathers side (William and Tabitha) and Mobbs on Mothers side (James and Bethany). Do you still have a website up with the Gray family trees? (off topic again, Lincolnshire Archives have just installed a new computer system for their parish records, good on some searches but still a lot of teething troubles)
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Hi,
I'm hoping that someone will have some info for me. I'm trying to trace details of the Bowman family, who used to travel the country and often stopped locally to deptford when in London in the 1950-60 and prob before.
They ran a ghost train and also had shetland ponies, other than that our info is limited.
Any info would be great.
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Facebook also has a number of gypsy/traveller pages and groups to join.
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I found this link whilst looking for something else.
http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/about.php
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Hi everyone,
I dont know if this link has already been posted, but I found it when googling my family name.
http://www.geocities.ws/avonvalleycollection/search.html
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Hi NettieS
I see there is a mention in the list of name interests of Stewart in Stirlingshire and Glasgow. I wondered if you have any information on the following: there is a story my Dad told me that my ggg? Grandfather was a lion tamer who was killed (he said eaten :)) by a lion - not a successful lion tamer by anyone's standards! According to my older cousin, there is more than a grain of truth to this story - certainly, my Dad wasn't given to telling porkies! My Cousin has mentioned there may still be descendents living around the Stirling area and my Mum and Dad talked about some people my Cousin thinks are from that line in Ayrshire and they may still be there. Going that far back, my gg? Grandfather would most likely have been born in Ireland. Do you have anything at all on this in your records?
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Hi Rainbow,
The Stewarts are my husbands side of the family, The earliest Stewart I have is a Peter Stewart(my husbands gggg grandfather) born about 1770 unfortunately I have no place of birth for him, his children were all born in West Lothian.
All his grandchildren were born in West Lothian and it is the grandchildren who married and moved, some ended up in Edinburgh, others in Stirling, some in Glasgow and some stayed in West Lothian.
Apart from my husbands brother, sister and mother, we have never met any of the Stewart side of the family so I am really sorry I can not be of much help to you at all.
Regards
Nettie
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Thanks Nettie
Even though there are no obvious links at the moment, I will keep these details just in case. You say you have no place of birth for Peter. This isn't a family name for us, but he may have come from Ireland. There was more than one exodus from Ireland, although the one around 1845 is better known.
Good luck anyway and many thanks for getting back to me.
Kind regards
Janet
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Hi Joc 42
Just saw your question regarding the bowman family who ran fairgrounds as am doing a little research myself. I am the granddaughter of Fred and Alice Bowmans youngest daughter Stella.( they had I think about 14 children but am not sure of all the names but can find out from my mother) My mother was only a young child when Alice passed away. I have 2 newspaper articles about the family that I can scan in and send when I get a little more time.
I would be interested if you have any information about the family . Fred Beauman (Bowman)( a grandson) who was an actor in the UK in the 70's was interviewed for the article in August 1973 and it has some great photo's and pictures.
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good site for all things Gypsy and romany history
http://gmb3.wetpaint.com/
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Just opened today, so still pretty empty ... ;D
Topic: A RootsChat database for Travelling People
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,627642.0.html
... but if you all add your names here, this could also become a useful research tool.
Enjoy,
Bob
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I am told that the surname Ayres relates to show people. My maternal grandfather was surnamed Ayres. His family seem to have been resident north of Cambridge (Lode etc.) at least as far back as 1700. Is the surname likely to have been associated with fairground people from a sedentary base or are travelling people more likely to have settled down in that era to work on the land?
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Hi Joc 42
Just saw your question regarding the bowman family who ran fairgrounds as am doing a little research myself. I am the granddaughter of Fred and Alice Bowmans youngest daughter Stella.( they had I think about 14 children but am not sure of all the names but can find out from my mother) My mother was only a young child when Alice passed away. I have 2 newspaper articles about the family that I can scan in and send when I get a little more time.
I would be interested if you have any information about the family . Fred Beauman (Bowman)( a grandson) who was an actor in the UK in the 70's was interviewed for the article in August 1973 and it has some great photo's and pictures.
I recall the family next door was called the Bowmans, i still live in London e16 , is that any help?
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I live in same house , next house, where the Bowman family lived till 1982.
Alice bowman died in 1973, could these be the same people?
Links Checked July 2013
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Ann65, sorry to go off topic, Im a newby to Rootschat. Wife is related to Gray on fathers side (William and Tabitha) and Mobbs on Mothers side (James and Bethany). Do you still have a website up with the Gray family trees? (off topic again, Lincolnshire Archives have just installed a new computer system for their parish records, good on some searches but still a lot of teething troubles)
hello I'm 2xgreat granddaughter of eliace Gray son of James and Bethany only just found out about the names mobbs would like to know more if anybody knows anything eliace married Amelia hurn
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Tyne & Wear flickr site; http://www.flickr.com/photos/twm_news/7589462318/in/photostream/
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A very old posting in this topic shows:
Romany & Traveller Family History Society
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/links.html
The Romany & Traveller Family History Society website is www.rtfhs.org.uk and has recently undergone a huge modernisation.
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Are there any links for circus info in the U.S.?
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Hi Carole,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Here are some links to some American Circus websites, is there any circus in particular or area of America you are researching?
Regards
Sarah :)
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I came across this website http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/ (http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/) subtitled 'Kist o' riches' and found it fascinating. It is free to access and is a joint venture by the University of Edinburgh, BBC Scotland and the National Trust for Scotland. There are over 34,000 oral recordings (stories, recollections and songs) made since the 1930's up until the 1970's, and a lot of them are of traveller people. It is searchable by surname if you are looking for a particular traveller family name (I'm interested in Townsley).
Have a browse and I hope you find something interesting on it, I did.
Joycie
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Gypsy Genealogy Found this great website today that has writtain articles on Gypsy Genealogy, simply search the family name and click to read the article. I am sure this will be very useful.
http://gypsygenealogy.com/listperson.php (http://gypsygenealogy.com/listperson.php)
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Hello
Yes it sounds like they may be the same people. I have not been able to confirm Alice's date of death. She was the tattooed lady in the circus and her whole body was covered in tattoos. Do you know if she had tatooes?
Her youngest son was Alfred - was it him living in the house next door?
Thank you
Sam
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Hello
Yes it sounds like they may be the same people. I have not been able to confirm Alice's date of death. She was the tattooed lady in the circus and her whole body was covered in tattoos. Do you know if she had tatooes?
Her youngest son was Alfred - was it him living in the house next door?
Thank you
Sam
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Hello Jennifer, Welcome to RootsChat :)
You had managed to click the red "quote" button, you will find the blue reply button just below the last reply on the right hand side ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Jennifer
By any chance are you a descendant of alice and Frederick Bowman..?
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I live in same house , next house, where the Bowman family lived till 1982.
Alice bowman died in 1973, could these be the same people?
Links Checked July 2013
Hi joc
Not sure if you still use this thread but it could very well be the same people. I have done a bit of research and not sure if they are the same people but could be related. Alice and Fred ran the circus and then ran florist shop in deptford. Alice died in the 60's at 92 and Had tatooes. Maybe the alice you are referring to was married to one of her son's .
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Welcome to RootsChat shb1
Both Jennifer and Joc and still active members of RootsChat and have been notified of your new replies, hopefully they will reply to you very soon.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Thanks Sarah
I have been in touch with them.
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Today little is known of the English Traveling Circus's from the mid 1800's. I have read somewhere that one of my grandfathers traveled with one of them but cannot find the name of it. I hope that working on the Roots Message Boards some people and places can be filled in.
Thank You
Jim
ps seems most of the family was in the Heddington Wiltshire England area if that might help
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Hi
Has anyone any information on a circus called light or lights that toured around the southeast early 1800’s
Many thanks
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Hi Shb1,
I am a granddaughter of Lucy Bowman who was one of the Bowman’s youngest daughters. Both my grandmother and my mother (Joyce Andrews) have always told me that Alice (my great grandmother) died shortly before my birth in June of 1957.
I have a copy of the marriage certificate of Frederick Bowman and Alice Eleanor Williams, dated 17th February 1890. Ages given: Frederick 19 and Alice 18.
I also have a census from 1911 with the names of their children as follows: Herman (16), Harriett (14), Florrie (12), James (9), Alice (8), Ellen (7), Timothy (4), Lucy (2), Stella (infant). I know they had a younger son (Alf) who was not born at the time of this census.
The names and ages are all correct. The only thing which is not correct is the year of death of Alice which I have often seen mentioned as 1963/1964. My mother’s first cousin (Alf’s youngest daughter... Alice lived with him and his wife Jessie and three other children) confirmed to me that Alice died in 1957. So Alice was born July 1871 and passed in the first half of 1957... she was 85 when she died.
I have a couple of photo’s of her and a photo of her together with Frederick. My mother lost all the other photo’s from the Fred Beauman article and a few other photo’s which were hanging in my grandmother Lucy’s home. Any photo’s you, or anyone else, has for me would be very greatly appreciated!!
If anyone wants to get in touch with me about anything I have stated here and/or to send me information and/or photo’s... please leave a message on this forum and let me know. I have only just this afternoon signed up here and so I have no idea how we can contact eachother.
Greetings, Kay
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Al Ralph, 'Light' is a Romany gypsy name, there is a group called RTFHS who also have a facebook page and Im thinking if you post on there somebody may have info to help. Also the Romany heritage page on fb, although its not searchable so hit and miss if somebody sees your post before its pushed down by other posts.
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Today little is known of the English Traveling Circus's from the mid 1800's. I have read somewhere that one of my grandfathers traveled with one of them but cannot find the name of it. I hope that working on the Roots Message Boards some people and places can be filled in.
Thank You
Jim
Jim, on the contrary, a lot is known about the English Travelling Circuses, you just have to know where to look ;-) What info do you have and what are you looking for?
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