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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: nellie d on Sunday 13 February 05 22:22 GMT (UK)
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I need information on
Georgina May ROWLAND b June Quarter 1894 Lambeth
d June Quarter 1896 Lambeth
Annie ROWLAND b December Quarter 1893 St Saviour
d March Quarter 1895 St Saviour
I am intersted to know if the parents of either of these little girls was John/William ROWLAND and
Margaret ROWLAND.
Thanks
Nellie
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Hi Nellie
Isn't the only way you'll find the answer by purchasing the birth certificates? They are very highly populated areas with many churches/chapels to search for baptisms.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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I didn't know if anyone had any easily searchable resources. I'm a bit reluctant to pay out at the moment as I don't know if they are the right girls or whether I am going up a dead end...again ???
Nellie
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Yes, I would be reluctant to pay out too with so little information to go on. They don't really look like they are sisters do they unless the parents moved about a lot.
Good luck
Casalguidi
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No I don't think that they are, but if I knew that one of them was or wasn't the daughter of John/William and Margaret Rowland it would help me to narrow down my search for Margarets death and susequently John?Williams.
John/William....I write it like that because on his marriage cert he was John William and on my great grandmothers birth cert he was William John.
Until this afternoon I knew they had 4 children, my great granny Margaret Helen b 1884 Southwark
Alice b London 1888, William b London 1889 and George b London 1893.
My great Aunt told me today that there was a baby sister born just before the mother died who herself died.....then the father died and the 4 children were orphened and ended up at Barnardo's.
The whole reason I am trying to be more specific with places is that John/William is meant to have been born in Ireland...and if i can trace his place and date of death I might get some info to help me...I know it seems like a long way round to find what i want...but I am that desperate anything is worth a try ???
Also I was intrigued as I had a daughter that died....her name was Georgina May...and if the 1894 Georgina May is related that would be so weird. My daughter was born in May 1994...100 years after the first one....it's just such a strange thing that I had to follow it up.
Does that make sense?
Nellie
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Hi Nellie
Yes, that really makes sense and I can see exactly where you are coming from. I would be thinking exactly the same if it were me.
Shouldn't Barnado's have the information about Mr ROWLAND's death in their records ie. when the children were admitted and why?
I assume that you have them in the 1891 census?
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Yes they do, but it will cost about £50 to find out :o
I have details of the children's whereabouts after their short stay at Barnardo's so I thought that £50 or whatever it was was a bit much just to pinpoint John/Williams death.
Thanks for the interest
Nellie
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I finally...got round to asking Barnardos a couple of years ago...they never were at Barnardos...so back to square 1....however I facebooked Rowland in the US and managed to find the relations of the two brothers george and Will..so that is a good restart.
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Did you ever send for the birth certs?
Then you would know for definite one way or the other and this wouldn't hang on any longer ( I see it is 9 years since you first posted! So.....birth certs at £9-25, only just over £1 per year! 10p per week! Doesn't seem a lot to pay when you look at it like that, and then you would KNOW the answer as to who their parents were! ;D)
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Possibly this one?
Births Jun 1894
Rowland Georgina May Lambeth 1d 528
Deaths Jun 1896
Rowland Georgina May age 1 Lambeth 1d 295
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Georgina May Rowland 25 married Frederick John Clarke 31 at St Thomas, Streatham Hill on 19 Mar 1919
Her father was George Victor Rowland,so not the right Georgina.
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Well, cant be the one that died in 1896 . . . . ::)
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Well, cant be the one that died in 1896 . . . . ::)
But THAT could be the baby that Nellie is looking for.
However there isn't a death of a Margaret nearby to tie in with the family story of a baby being born and then dying about the same time as mum.
I can't see any of them on the 1891 census- to find out how old mum is supposed to be?
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It must be the Georgina May Rowland bn Ap/May/Jun 1893 West Ham 4a 294
(Assuming the one dying in Lambeth is the one that was born in Lambeth)
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Nellie, did your Margaret Helen Rowland marry Frank George Francis on 28 Aug 1909 in Plymouth-she was aged 24?
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Yes Lizdb
I am ordering today.
Haven't been doing any family history for ages...sork etc
Now retired due ro ill health so i intend to spend more time on it in the future.
Having tracked down the long lost American cousins of my grandad it has given me a new burst of enthusiasm :)
Plus I now have an ipad, so I can do this whenever...where ever!!!!
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Yes to you too Carol8353. They are my maternal paternal great grandparents.
It has been interesting to get the 'story' from our new found relations. There are two branches out there in the US and they have both different stories about the family.
I am next going to go through newspaper archives as apparently one of the cousins remembers seeing a newspaper article about the father..Thank you both Carol and Liz
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So is that the right Margaret,and where are the family (kids) on the 1891 and 1901 census.
We may be able to save you the expense of buying certs if we can find the family.
After 9 years there are so many more records online.
Carol
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I think the Georgina May is a dead end...probably my desperation to have another Georgina May in the family. My baby Georgina has been gone 20 years now.
I think I can say that Annie is most likely a definite connection.
The mum and dad were both deceased by the 1901 and I have all the children..Margaret, William, George and Alice living and working in service in Kent.
The family are no where to be found on the 1891.
I have tried looking under the mothers maiden name to see if there was an error when writing census....you know, like recording all the family surname under the name of the head of house.
I got really excited when I thought I found them in Devon...only to go into the actual transcript and see I was wrong, i will get there...just might take a while ...lol..
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This seems to be 3 of them in Mayfield Sussex in 1901.
Edwd Albt Shide (perhaps Stride?) 60 farmer.
Sarah Ann Shide 52 wife
Albert Shide 12
Alice Rowland 13 boarders all b Middlesex London
William Rowland 12
George Rowland 8
RG13/ 898 Folio 117 Page 4
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Yes, that's them. Mrs Stride was their foster mother. Margaret was in service in Fulwich with Mrs Strides daughter, Kate.
I went through the two boys William and George, as I knew they emigrated to the US as boys. Found them on US census, then followed the family tree up to date. Emailed the likely suspects and found what I was looking for.
We have three stories about the dad.
1 he was killed in the Boer War.........our British version
2 he killed himself ....one American version
3 he died whilst trying to save a lady from drowning...the other American version
One of the American cousins remembers the youngest of the four, Alice, showing him a newspaper cutting regarding the drowning.
I will order
birth certs for the William Rowland b 1860 ish and see what comes back.
I am also going to follow the maternal line up from Margaret Ellen Emmett to see if I can locate any living relatives. Only problem...she had 4 girls. Still i do like a challenge....BMD marriages here I come.
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So here's their marriage.
Marriages Mar 1884
Emmett Margaret Ellen St Saviour 1d 17
ROWLAND John William St.Saviour 1d 17
She was 25 and her father was Samuel Emmett .
Hubby was John William Rowland age 24, as was his dad,so no wonder he swopped his names around a bit to make it easier I expect.
Still can't see a death for a Margaret Rowland about the time you say?
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Thanks carol
I have a death for Margaret MQ 1896 Camberwell and a baby Charlotte Rowland b MQ 1896 d JQ 1896 Camberwell.
I think that might be her
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And a death William Rowland
Camberwell MQ 1897
I think that might be him...so I am going to give the newspaper archives a go for the end 1896 start 1897!
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Thanks carol
I have a death for Margaret MQ 1896 Camberwell and a baby Charlotte Rowland b MQ 1896 d JQ 1896 Camberwell.
I think that might be her
I wonder who registered the death,as according to her marriage cert she was born in 1859/60.
So this one seems a bit too old?
Deaths Mar 1896
ROWLAND Margaret age 40 Camberwell 1d 527
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Ah..yes....i think my brain had lost it...at that point I had beeb looking for about 3 hours.......what a twit!
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Thanks Carol and Liz
Loks like I found them...hiding away in 1891 census as Powland instead of Rowland.
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Thanks Carol and Liz
Loks like I found them...hiding away in 1891 census as Powland instead of Rowland.
Oh wow- these ones? 10 Clifton Buildings Noel Street,St George the Martyr.
John W Powland 26 warehousman b Wood green
Margaret E Powland 30 wife b Holborn
Margaret Powland 6 dau b Lambeth
Alice M Powland 4 " "
William G Powland 2 son B Bermondsey.
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Yes..that's them.
I checked out the addresses on the boy's birth certificates and they were both born in Clifton Buildings.
So I then looked through the census for Clifton Buildings and there they were.
I have been stuggling with that FOREVER...just goes to show...never give up...you will find them in the end!
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So it looks as though dad always uses the names John William,I suggest you try and find a death in that name.He is on the censuses as such and also marries in that name too.
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Yes, that's what I was thunking too. Just to add a bit more "confusion' to the mix, my gt grandma's marriage cert says her dad was Edward Rowland!!!!
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It's not at all unusual if dad's been dead for a long time,for them to forget his proper name.
I've had marriage certs where they've put step dad's name but real dad's job!
Carol
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We do like a challenge :)
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