RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: Daisy Loo on Monday 23 February 09 21:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Someone (Dimps...thanQ) has recently found a grave of one of my ancestors, and happily he is buried there with his wife. He died in 1878, she died in 1893. But also buried in the same grave was a person of a totally different name, in 1864.
Could my ancestors have come to some agreement to be buried in this grave? What other reason would they have fo being buried in a grave of a person that was unrelated to them?
Thanks,
Daisy Loo
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There are Purchased Graves where the applicant purchases the Exclusive Right of Burial in this grave, effectively forming a private grave and giving the family of the deceased control of any future burials in that grave. The owner of the Right must give written permission before any burial can take place in a purchased grave. The Exclusive Right has a fixed term - usually 100 years after which time control of the grave is returned to the relevant authority.
Un-purchased Graves are also known as 'Common' or 'Public' graves. The relevant authority retains control of the burials in these graves. Burial Law used to require a 14 year interval between successive burials in one of these graves, (unless the deceased were from the same family), but this law has since been repealed.
1864-1878 = 14years
Stan
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Stan, thanks, makes more sense. Cheers :)
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I have found quite a few of mine with different names (mostly in philips Park & Southern in Manchester). Some of them are large common graves so have lots of different names but some of them have 3 or 4 different names and when I searched further I found lots of relatives such as married daughters and their husbands and their parents or siblings. Sometimes a wife's father, or even one with maternal grandparents and a grandchild (but not the parents). And once when a mother had remarried. It is very interesting unravelling it all and can be quite illuminating.
Milly
;D
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<groan> not another mystery to unravel! This family have driven me demented! Milly, it's the same family that I have on the Armed Forces Board!
But yes, it is strange how things do link up :)
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As it is possibly a public grave, it is unlikely to have a marker - but I'll tootle along at the weekend to have a look. The other problem is that many of the gravestones in this particular cemetery have disintigrated and a great many have been moved and have been propped against the walls.
Dimps
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oh no! Scrimnet suggested that couldbe the case...ah Dimps you're a star...you're getting gold stars on the McMinn thread! :)
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I have found quite a few of mine with different names (mostly in philips Park & Southern in Manchester). Some of them are large common graves so have lots of different names but some of them have 3 or 4 different names and when I searched further I found lots of relatives such as married daughters and their husbands and their parents or siblings. Sometimes a wife's father, or even one with maternal grandparents and a grandchild (but not the parents). And once when a mother had remarried. It is very interesting unravelling it all and can be quite illuminating.
Milly
;D
They may not actually BE in the same grave.
When I fist looked my grandads burial info up at Blackley on the Manchester online I nearly had a fit cos it shows My Grandads name, That my Nanas ashes were scattered on the grave (its officialy recorded!)
and then I got a shock .............. there were two more names listed with the same grave nimber.
I KNOW with absolute certainty that the other people are not buried in this grave - because I was there when My Nana purchased the grave in 1977 and I have been to the grave with her at least 4 times a year since then so I Would KNOW if the grave had been opened for another burial.
When I checked I was told its because there are two parts to the Cemetery (I think its conformist & non Conformist) - and the numbers may be used in both parts.
I had the same thing happen at Gorton - My relative was in Grave '8' but no plot reference - and each letter plot had a grave number "8" ......................... From "A" onwards.....
It might be worth contacting the Cemetery and asking if its the same there.
Gaille
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Hi Milly,
The man from the Council was quite clear that they are all in the same grave. Plus he has given a section letter and grave number.
I have come across this before when checking for a fellow rootschatter. He was adamant that his grandmother could not be in the same grave as another woman but... the other woman did have a marker and the map of the cemetery was very, very detailed - there was no doubt at all.
I'll be able to find out more at the weekend, when I should have a chance to pop along to the cemetery.
Dimps
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Hi All
Whilst looking up some War Graves I found quite
a few with none related people also buried with them.
In the Grave Book it says often in Red
"Free Gift I.W.G. (Imperial War Graves) Com".
As the original headstones did not survive it makes you
wonder if there were 2 stones like on family gravestones.
I suppose only relatives with original photographs know.
Sandy
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Hi everyone,
I was recently helping Mark (Framesmith1816) with his thread, and helped him locate the grave of Sarah Warner in Nottingham General Cemetery. She was buried in a tomb, together with William Soars, his wife and son. This surprised us, as we expected her to be buried with her husband, John.
Anyway, as our research progressed we found that John and Sarah (from details in her will) had separated in 1846, and so presumed that William and his wife had been buried with a dear, 'esteemed' friend. However, further along the line, after much more research, we found that she was related to William.
Daisy Loo, this may not be the case with your relatives, but it certainly proved to be worth digging a bit further in this case (sorry about the expression!).
Paulene :)
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Yes Gaille is right.... - the manchester website does list lots of names in different graves under the same number and you do need the plot number and section to make sure you are only looking at the names in the right grave.
Milly :)
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lol...digging into the past is a sorry expression when relating to this topic eh?
Thanks all for your input...I most certainly will investigate though ;D
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I was talking to an elderly cousin yesterday, and she was adamant that still-born children were placed in the coffin of someone who had died around the same time in the same village. I seem to vaguely recollect hearing of this before, but I don't know whether it's true.
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Yes, Nick, you're right, I'm sure I've seen a discussion about that here on RC! ;D
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I toddled down to the cemetery this afternoon. No luck, I'm afraid.
There are very few stones left in Section X. There were some small, square stones (approx. 1' x 1') embedded in the ground - almost like paving stones - that marked (mostly) family graves. These had the section and grave number engraved on them and so helped to indicate roughly the area containing grave 472. This area no longer had any markers at all.
Dimps
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oh, shame! Thank you so much for going though, oh well, guess it's just the visit to TNA now to look forward to :)
Thanks again, and I haven't forgotten the drink :)
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Did you look at the burial register on the manchester burial site ...it will give age, marital status and last address...which might give you a clue as to where (and if) they were related.
Milly
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Milly, I know who the fella is, who buried him etc, and what his last address was...or were you referring to the fella he was buried with?
I am delighted to have found out that he was at least buried with his wife. It's kind of nice to know they are together :)
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Daisy Loo - you're welcome.
Milly - the burial was in Plumstead, SE London (or Kent back then).
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DIMPS: Ah Thanks - I was getting confused...and got it in my head it was Manchester...
Daisyloo... I meant the other mystery extra person....
Milly
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My husbands gr grandfather is buried in the same grave as his first wife, and his second wife. Also a baby from his first marriage.
His first wife died just after their baby was born, and the baby died three weeks later. Her sister came over from Ireland to help him look after the first three daughters. She ended up marrying him and they went on to have 2 more sons and another daughter. He died not long after in WW1, leaving his second wife to bring up the whole clan.
Part of me thinks isn't it nice that he has both wives in there with him, and the other part of me thinks 'Poor thing!!' They must be ganging up on him in there and nagging him something rotten ;D
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lol - I think it's nice..the two sisters both together....he really is in heaven now eh? ;D ;D
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Hi
Someone (Dimps...thanQ) has recently found a grave of one of my ancestors, and happily he is buried there with his wife. He died in 1878, she died in 1893. But also buried in the same grave was a person of a totally different name, in 1864.
Daisy Loo
I have found at least two relative burried in graves where there is no obvious link. The first was a 7 year old child burried in what could be her maternal grandmother's grave in 1854. The second an elderly single women in the mid 20th century was burried with a man who turned out to be an uncle by marriage.
The family were quite poor and I guess that it made sense to pool resources or use up a spare space! It seems very odd to us but people lived (and died) in such close proximity compared to current times.