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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: charlotteCH on Tuesday 03 March 09 07:26 GMT (UK)
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Can I have help please in deciphering what appears to be the overtyped last para of a will that I think was made and signed in 1930sin Moose Jaw.
I've tried using a mirror but can't make out what the typed words are where there appear to be two layers of typing.
[ b]The date of the signing is the most significant thing... 20th day of October but which year? [/b]
The singatures are not relevant.
Any help, comments much appreciated and thanks,
charlotte
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Hi Charlotte,
Any use?
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I would have guess the date of the will at 1978 but am not sure that is possible with the under/over typing showing a date of 1951.
This is very bizarre but does state "in the Supreme Court of British Columbia. In probate".
Are you able to make it out now charlotte?
dollylee
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Charlotte,
Year looks like 1938 Didn't have my glasses on, and it looked like a 3 ;D ;D Sorry Charlotte :-[
Cheers
KHP :)
Edited :but as Dolly said, it looks like 1978
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looking at the title of this thread KHP I think you were right the first time :)
It is hard to imagine under what circumstances it would be considered proper form
to type this message on the will whether it is a copy or not.
I can't wait for charlotte to return and possibly enlighten us.
dollylee
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Dolly,
Its just that it looks like a shape of a 3 to me, there is a faint circle which looks like the bottom half of a 3, but the word underneath makes it hard to decide.
Will just have to wait for Charlotte.
Cheers
KHP :)
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The curl does make it look like a 3 but I have tried to match the type and all the 3s I come up with have a rounded top not a flat top
1938
1978
I'm sure it is a 7
Rog
(sorry the font doesn't paste into here - but it does show what I mean)
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The more you look at it, 7 stands out.
Cheers
KHP
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I think it could be a "2". Look at the copy which Tati reversed and you can see a flat tail of a "2" Would 1928 makes more sense for you, it would fit well with the 'elderly looking' typing ::)
jo
Ps The flat tail doesnt belong to the Josephine which it overlays. Tricky though!
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Thank you all very much indeed for your detective work... and for the mirror image tati [I assume that's how you did that] which seems to be a typing over the original Will about an affadavit sworn in Oct 1951. I had not been able to unravel that & had no idea an affadavit was involved. Now of course, as in all FH, stuff, it leaves me with another mystery.
Henry Hargreaves, whose will it is, died 30 April 1951 in Victoria BC. Now the intriguing question is what is the affadavit sworn by his daughter about and can I get hold ot the affadavit?
The story behind this is that on 10 June 1939 Henry H left his wife in Moose Jaw , supposedly to go to England on business, but in fact he nicked off to hide in Toronto with his MJ already married ladyfriend who from then on passed herself off as his wife. In 1948 they moved to near VictoriaBC.
His legal wife died in 1946 in MJ. Presumably when Henry died the 1938
will was produced but what was the Affadavit about?
I think the year of the will signing must be 1938.. My guess is that he was preparing to leave MJ by then and putting this will in place so he wouldn't be pursued in his hiding out. . From what I have read on a site about wills in BC that dollylee[?] gave me, a Will became invalid upon the marriage of the signer, so presumably Henry and the ladyfriend didn't marry but just passed as a couple.
Am I making sense? Any questions, suggestions, corrections to my suppositions?
I understand there was little actual money in the estate covered by the Will... The money of which there was lots must have been given to the lady friend ahead of his death- she was 20 yrs younger & lived until 1975.
So now the question is how to get hold of a copy of this affadavit--- any ideas on this very welcome.
Thanks for your help- I really appreciate it.
charlotte
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Just read Josee's post--- I don't think it could be 1928 as Henry then had two adult sons who are not mentioned in the will- both had died by August 1938, which rather boost the stakes for it to be 38. His two married daughters, the two daughters of his deceased son and his legal wife are mentioned. So I think it has to be after August 1938.
Any comment, criticisms very welcome.
Thanks,
charlotte
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Hi Charlotte,
The affidavit would be what the excutor is swearing to and Exhibit A is the will referred to in her affidavit. It's standard procedure in Estates. There would be a few forms to be filed out by the excutor to be handed into the court for an application of Probate. If I can find my book, then I could give you the exact documents ::)
Wills are usually stapled onto a blue thicker stock with 3 staples at the top. Once the person has died you can't remove the staples. So, the secretary has to put the last page in her typewriter with the whole thing attached and type the clause re: Affidavit that's why it looks upside down and backwards, but that's normal on all wills, well at least up to the 90's anyways before computers ;D
Karen
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On the circumstantial evidence, the date of the Will surely has to be 28 October 1838.
But even looking at the document, how can the curved part at the bottom of the number be explained away if it's not the bottom of a '3'? It surely has to be a '3'.
And the shape of the complete digit is not an unusual shape for a typed '3' if I recall correctly. Indeed, thinking about it, I sometimes (quite often) write a '3' like that i.e. with a horizontal top.
Yes, the curved part at the bottom is paler than the top half but this can be explained by wear and tear on the keys, or by uneven pressure by the typist.
There are other letters in the document which are fainter at the bottom than at the top e.g. 'g' in give, 'W' in Will, 'T' in Testament, both appearances of 'D' and part of the 'R' in DECLARED.
Just some thoughts.
JAP
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Karen and JAP, Thank you for your comments... Reiterating my earlier post, I think it has to be 1938 for the singing of the Will.
Interesting point made by Karen about the typing upside down of the Affadavit... tati's scan made it possible for me to read it- previously i'd tried using a mirror without success.
Three executors are named in the Will and the person making the Affadavit is one of them . So it seems from what Karen has said there is nothing unusual about such an Affadavit... No need for me then to chase it.
There is something very odd about all this- long story-which makes me curious and suspicious but if the Affadavit is routine no need to waste effort there.
Would the Probate File contain a list of property and the value of the Estate and any problems encountered in the course of dealing with the will - in other words will I learn more if I try to get the Probate file then I have learned from the Will?
Any comments, advice very welcome and thank you all for such wonderful help.
charlotte
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The answer to your last question is yes....you should learn a great deal from the probate file if the courts required the same information as they do now.
The accounting you are required to send in for probate is a true and complete report of all and everything which would be considered the deceased estate.
The court would retain all original documents pertaining to a case in a probate packet or probate estate papers (also known as estate packets or estate files). These contain the original wills, petitions, letters, inventories, settlements, and other records.
Looking at the inventory papers of a will I did have probated (2005) I can tell you right down to what jewellery, cars, household goods and personal effects this person had, also every debt or liability. This information was required by the court.
dollylee