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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: skyblueFF on Tuesday 03 March 09 09:04 GMT (UK)
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My great great great grandfather James Capstick was a farmer at the Smithy, Howgill. At the 1841 census they had 8 children Roger aged 20 was listed as the Blacksmith. In 1846 he married Hannah Dacre and setup home at High Park,54 acres, Dillicar, Westmorland, They were my great great grand parents. By 1861 they had 7 children, the eldest Edward was to be come my gggf.
By the 1871 census they had moved to Low Park Dillicar 150 acres.after Roger died and Hannah was the head.
In 1877 Edward married Mary Atkinson. He was a butcher in Kendal and eventually went to Liverpool as a butcher and cowkeeper.
When Hannah died their son Roger, I call him young Roger, took over the farm before also going to Liverpool.
I think the family is quite well documented.
So what is this ramble about?
1. I can find no trace of High Park, Was it destroyed by the building of what we know now as the west coast main line?
2. I would like to know something about Low Park. It is now derelict between the M6 motorway and the river Lune. It is shown on the Howgill Fells o.s map and can be seen from Howgill Lane. Who owned it etc and why is it derelict.?
3. Why did so many people from that area go to be cow keepers in Liverpool
4. I would also like to know more about cow keepers.
5. There several Capstick families in that area but we don’t seem to have any connection to them.
As I live in Mid Wales I do not get up to Kendal as often as I would like and then its usually weekends so cannot get to the records office where I expect some of the answers will be.
Can anyone help me please?
Michael C
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Hi,
Unfortunately, I can only comment about your first question:
The construction of the West Coast main line, originally the Lancaster-Carlisle Railway, was started in 1844 and completed in 1846, so I don't think this is why High Park is no longer there. I have also searched a current OS map and have located Low Park, but no High Park.
As you already suspect, the answer will probably lie in the maps at Kendal Record Office. Have you thought about asking for a price quote from them to look at the various maps on your behalf?
Regards
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Hello
Thanks for the response Chris, I was beginning to think I wasn't going to get any. I think I am going to have to spend some time in the Kendal record Office as I have many avenues to explore there. Hope it will be bad weather though because when I'm up in the area there is walking to be done.
Michael
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Michael,
A further thought - you may be able to check the censuses by address rather than surname. Have you checked 1841 to find the farms around the same area? If you found the farm in 1901 for instance, then you would know it disappeared afterwards. Is it possible that the farm may have survived until the M6 motorway was constructed in the mid 1960s?
Regards
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I think that Roger aged 20 & a blacksmith (living with James Capstick & family) is the nephew of James. His mother is Emma Capstick, & Roger was baptised in 1817 in Preston Patrick.(see Familysearch) His mother was unmarried. Most of his Capstick relations are here, except James, whose baptism I have never found, & William, baptised in Kirkby Lonsdale. The Ann Capstick baptised in 1803 is my GGG grandmother. Hope this is of interest to you. Regards, Cee.
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Thanks Cee
That is of great interest and puts a small spanner in the works.
So was Emma James's brother?
Roger and his wife Hannah were my ancestors and we descended through his son Edward.
Do you think that because Emma was unmarried Roger was brought up by James and Margaret?
Did Emma ever marry?
Do you know a ot about the family?
Michael
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Not your family - but I know that High Park existed in 1955. A John Stalker lived at 1 High Park. I was looking for it in August and it seems to have gone!! There is a High Park caravan Park - maybe that is the land?
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Thanks karenest
High Park does seem to have disappeared.
I understand Low park was inhabited until the 1960's, probably when the motorway was built.
I would love to have a photo of it when it was a working farm.
We will be in the area at the end of this month so will go and have another mooch around.
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Hi
I have a William Capstick c 1863 married Susannah Willan in Kirkby Lonsdale
He was a quarryman
Ady
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Just testing. Sorry!!
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Hi SkyblueFF,
My Great Grandfather was the young Roger Capstick that you refer to in your introduction. Roger Capstick and family, having moved from High Park to Low Park between 1861 and 1871 then moved again to Cockshead Farm in Liverpool between 1891 and 1901. Your Great Grandfather Edward was Roger’s brother and moved to 98 Admiral Street, Toxteth (not sure when). I too would like to know why they moved to Liverpool. I think it was for economic reasons mostly but the flight of Roger and family from Low Park may have a mystery attached to it. Some of Roger’s children (another Roger, Margaret and William) went to live at Allerton Road Farm Liverpool owned by Roger and Edwards other brother William. The remaining younger children (Mary, Jane, Thomas, James my grandfather and Walter) went to Cockshead Farm. Hannah the eldest daughter went to work for your great grandfather Edward at his home in Toxteth as a domestic servant. Question is, why move to a farm that is too small for your family? My Uncle Ted (born at Cockshead Farm), now sadly deceased did mention something untoward had happened which prompted their departure from Westmoreland but that was all he knew. I’m trying to find out what it was.
I visited Low Park, about ten years ago. I had to wait until mid July when the Lune River dropped sufficiently to ford on foot. I have some photo’s which I can send to you if you want any.
I’ll try to answer some of your questions:-
1. High Park was in the path of the motorway, it was just below Knott Hall farm across the railway line from Low Park. In fact the access road to Low Park went past High Park then over the level crossing. The little lane just south of Mountain View opposite the mile stone is still there on the recent OS map, I’ll go and look for it next time I’m in the area. High Park can be seen on an old OS map, First Series, Sheet 98E, circa 1864. This link may get you there:- http://visionofbritain.org.uk/iipmooviewer/iipmooviewer.html?fileName=first_edition%2Flm_98ne%3DThe+British+Library%3DOrdnance+Survey%3DFirst+Series%3D98+NE&x=54&y=43
2. I think Low Park is derelict due to the access road being cut off by the motorway. There is no access the other way across the Lune except on foot and the nearest other access is travelling north down a farm track for some distance all the way to Low Borrowbridge.
3. Still searching for an answer.
4.Yes me too.
5. We probably do if we go back far enough.
It seems we have a common ancestry and several common goals in our research, we probably need to pool our resources if you think it would be beneficial. I live in Timperley, south Manchester and my frequent visits to the Lake District usually involve walking or painting. I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and spend some time in Kendal Library going through old newspaper articles or such like.
Regards
Brian.
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Hello Brian
Thank you for that reply, it seems we have lots to talk about so I have sent you a private message.
regards
Michael
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Hello, I have just joined this site. My great great great grandfather was also James, who was married to Margaret Foster. Their son James b 1838 had a son Frederick Foster b 1865. Frederick is my great grandfather and he came to NZ in the 1880s, his elder brother James went to Australia at a similar time.
I am trying to trace the brothers/sisters of James b 1794/7. I have been told that a sister Mary b 1808 married Thomas Stephenson in 1829 is this correct? Cee are you able to tell me who Ann 1803 married?
I am happy to share any information that I have on James descendents. Linda
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hi i am a Wharton from the similar area . i am sure one of my relations married a dacre and i also think they farm near the Lune , the motorway and the calisle overbridge .. your names are very familiar to me tho not directly related . my family were more waitby and Kirby Stephan . i have been to Kendal archives . fan tanstic but as i am in new zealand even harder than wales .
i have some books here i will look into and also will look up if it is dacre..
hope to hear from you . Jan
family names , Atkinson , Dixon , eubank , Cunningham .. they lived at ashfell farm ..
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Hi there
just thought I'd join in on this one - hope you don't mind
I'm not sure I have any direct answers to your questions, but perhaps some further history
My great grandmother was Elizabeth Capstick (daughter of Roger and Hannah)
I have traced her back beyond the Dacre's that once owned Lanercost Priory 0 where there still remains family crests in the main building and a more recently refurbished "Dacre Hall". The last remaining heir of the Dacres is buried there - it's a very sad story, but certainly got me interested in history!
Elizabeth married William Bateman, and they had two of their three children whilst living at the Knott Hall you refer to in your earlier chain.
Knott Hall was undergoing some major renovations last year, but the owners kindly allowed me to go and look at the house (spectacular views!) when I visited the area two years ago. I took some photos which may show the area that High Park once stood - let me know if you'd like me to share them
I'm planning a further visit to the area next week - if time prevails I'll see if I can visit the house again and take more photos of the spectacular views
Hope this helps
regards
CAjondy
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Hello CAjondy
Thanks for joining in the post with great information. Through this post I have made contact with another descendant of Roger and Hannah who is the same relation to me as you are. My great grand father was Edward, Elizabeth's brother. Elizabeth lived at Low Park when she married William Bateman from Knott Hall the neighboring farm. We are trying to build up a picture of Low Park and the family there before they went their separate ways in Liverpool. I have seen Low Park from the road at the other side of the river Lune but would love to be able to visit it but would need permission from the present owner, can you help with information on that front.
I knew that the Dacres go back along way but am fascinated by the Lanercost Priory connection.
PM me with more information if you like.
Michael
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Hi CAjondy,
I’m Brian, the other descendent referred to by skyblueFF. My Great Grandfather was Roger Capstick (or Roger the younger as I refer to him) second son of Roger (the elder) and Hannah.
When Roger (the elder) and Hannah died Roger (the younger) became head of the family at Low Park, Edward having moved to Liverpool. He married Elizabeth XXXXXX and lived at Low Park along with his children, one of whom, James my Grandfather. It seems we share the same Great, Great Grandparents. I have been to Low Park (yes I trespassed, I think) several years ago, had to ford the River Lune to get there, not advisable really. If either you or skyblueFF would like to visit Low Park the properties at Borrowbridge would be a place to start as one of them has a track at the rear leading to Low Park. The land around it is used, as it was in our ancestor’s day for grazing cattle, so access shouldn’t be problem so long as the current owner is amenable. I have some photos from my trip which I could share with you if you want them.
Regards
Brian
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Hi Briasn
I'd love the photos - thank you
Sadly, I ran out of time on my trip to the Lakres this year, so my waddling through water (or through fields of grazing sheep / cows) may need to wait until next year 0 maybw by then some kind of road will have been built :-)
If you provate message me your email address I can send you mine
I do believe Roger married Elizabeth Park on 3/10/1877 at the parish church in Grayrigg - her father was Robert Park a farmer in Dillicar (found this in the records office during my two days in there this week!) Witnesses were JAmes PArk and Hannah Capstick. The presiding minister was William Lovejoy :-)
regards
Cajondy
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hi guys .. looked at my work my rellie is Dague, so close but not the same . will keep looking tho because my Robert hine married Elanor park around 1800.. mind you i think everyone related to everyone up in them there fells.. love the place . Jan
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Hello Cee, thanks for your email. I have since found that Mary married Thomas Stephenson in 1829 Lancaster. Ellen the other sister I have no information. thanks Linda
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Hi, the Stricklands more recently followed the other families. My grandmother was a Strickland from Low Park at Dillicar. They may be related to the Stricklands of Sizergh Castle, south of kendal. The house has a large iron cooking range. The walls are stone held together with a simple lime cement. They crumbled when the railway bought the land and the men on the railway took the lead from the roof to sell. The rain destroyed the rest although the walls are still standing, and the iron range is still there. The house cannot be used because there is no sewer access for miles, and the old soil toilet is up the hill from the river (Lune). Down by the river wild mint grow, and maybe Dill once did. The Vikings were fond of dill, hence the name Dillicar (dill acre). Hillary at Carlsdale farm across the river has aphoto but I have not seen it. They own the land now. Close by the bridge just north of there is Low Borrow Bridge and the Roman barracks, in land owned by the farm there.
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Hello Strickland.
Thanks for that. I have tried to send you a PM but cannot because you have to have had 3 posts before I can for some reason. You can't send me one either.
Michael
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Hello all on this thread
I trust it's ok to chip in - although I haven't much detail to contribute yet, but I'm confident my own ancestry maps into the various fascinating threads raised here. I'm really just underway - building on a tree infrastructure started by a cousin some years ago.
My father (George Bateman) was brought up at Mountain View, Lowgill; my Mother (Annie Capstick) was brought up at Birkhaw, Howgill. My ancestors are long established in the area either side of the Lune, and current uncles, aunts, cousins etc remain so. I was brought up nearby (Selside), so my boyhood involved many visits (but I haven't waded the Lune).
:)
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To 'Strickland'
If you're still active - I have 3 photos of LowPark when it was farmed - 2 probably when the Strickland family were there. Let me know if you would like them
best wishes
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Hi
I am a relative too, I believe! I am a descent of Thomas Capstick, grandson of James Capstick (of Howgill Smithy) . Thomas (son of Joseph) went to Liverpool to become a policeman. We have a photo of someone wearing a silver horseshoe tie pin, we are wondering if this could have been Joseph, and that maybe he worked as a blacksmith after your relative Roger left to set up his own farm?
Would love to know who this photograph is of! Sadly it wont upload but happy to share if anyone thinks they might know.
Best wishes
Sarah
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Hi Sarah, Welcome to RootsChat.
When you say it will not upload, what error message are you seeing ? It maybe too large, we have a limit of 900kb or maybe the filename is not unique so try re-naming the file.
Regards
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah, yes the file was too large it said.