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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Antrim => Ireland => Antrim Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: fergaine on Friday 06 March 09 20:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to trace my grandmother's family. Her name was Ellen Ballantyne, and she was born in 1903 in Carrondoo (not the right spelling) near Ballycastle. I believe there's a golf course there now. She was part of a large family, of which Duncan and daniel are the more unusual first names. Her parents were Duncan Ballantyne and Rosetta McLean.
There may have been a small farm there, belonging to the family.
I'd be glad of any data of Ballantyne/Ballantine/Bonnatines in the area. The birth records seem to have been destroyed.
Thanks,
Elaine
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First of all, I've moved your post from Antrim Requests to Antrim-General board since you aren't really looking for one particular bit of information and I suspect that more people will see it on general board.
Civil registration of births started in 1864 and no Irish birth (or death or marriage) records were detroyed.
To start with the 1911 census just came online (free) in Dec.2008. I took a quick look and couldn't find Ellen but perhaps you'll have better luck.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search
Most census records and many Church of Ireland registers were destroyed.
Duncan Ballentine married July/Sept.1894 Ballycastle registration district (vol.1 page 101) Rosetta M'Lean.
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Thanks, Aghadowey, I'm new to the site and appreciate all the help I can get.
Ellen moved to Scotland about 1905 aged 2 - so will be in no Irish census. When she retired she sent off for her birth certificate (to Dublin, I think) she believed that it, and a lot of other data had been lost when the Records office had caught fire.
Thanks for the link. I will check the 1901 census for her older siblings, parents and grandparents.
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At least I can see now why I couldn't find the family in 1911 census. 1901 census does survive but is not yet online- will be added to National Archives site when all 1911 for Ireland is complete (could be a while yet).
It's possible that the problem with Ellen's birth certificate was the spelling of her surname (in those days the printed index volumes would have to have been checked manually- 4 volumes (quarters) for each year- whereas now we can search the indexes online very quickly.
Do you happen to know her grandparents' name and also what religion the family were in Ireland?
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Hi - aren't you efficient! You're so fast getting back to me. It's great.
Ellen's parents, my gt. grandparents were Duncan Ballantyne/Bonnatine b. circa 1864 in Ballycastle or Ballintoy and lived in Carrondoo (sorry about the spelling) and married Rosetta McClean/McLean, as you said, in 1894, in Ballintoy. His sister, Nancy Bonnatine had a small farm in or near Carrondoo.
My gt. gt. grandparents were Duncan Bonnatyne and Ellen Morgan, both born in Ireland. He is listed as a farmer. That's where the trail ends.
Thanks,
Elaine
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P.S. All I know is that they were Protestant, becoming members of the Church of Scotland when they moved to Scotland.
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A bit more information you might not have.
Duncan Bonnatine and Ellen Morgan had:
1. Nancy born 26 Apr.1867 Croagh district
2. Daniel born 19 Apr.1870 Co.Antrim
3. Henry born 6 Dec.1872 Croagh district
There are only 8 Bonnatines listed in civil registration indexes (all Ballycastle reg. dist.):
Betty born c1864 died 1868 (Elizabeth born 1864)
Henry born c1859 died 1867
Rose born c1776 died 1865
James born c1794 died 1867
as well as the births for Nancy, Daniel & Henry above
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Terriffic. thanks for all this.
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Wonder if the townland 'Carrandoo' was Carnduff (duff and doo in placenames are interchangeable).
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If it has a large golf course it is. That's all I know. They came from a row of farm cottages which don't exist now.
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Gracehill?
www.itup.fsnet.co.uk/directions.html
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I think it's Cairndhu golf course
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Cairndhu Golf Club isn't really near Ballycastle- near Ballygally between Larne and Glenarm along coast road.
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Might explain why I've had so much bother. Between my gran's spelling and my lack of knowledge aof Irish geography.
I can't seem to find any town or village. Is it all just a golf course and a run down mansion? Would the farm have belonged to the estate?
Sorry to monopolise you, but you've given me more information tonight than I've found in 10 years.
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Just dug out detailed townlands map of Ballycastle area and will get back in a few minutes.
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Carnduff townland, Ramoan Parish, Ballycastle Poor Law Union (just outside Ballycastle heading towards Ballintoy- not that close to Gracehill Golf Club which is in Stranocum.
There's also a Carnduff townland, Inver Parish, Larne Poor Law Union but my maps don't go far enough in that direction.
However, the details I found before are Ballycastle Registration District.
Here a site listing golf courses in Co. Antrim:
www.travelireland.org/antrim/antrim_golf_courses.html
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Thanks. I really appreciate all your efforts.
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Fergaine, this is very exciting for me--you and I are some species of cousin!!
My grandmother, Christina Ballantyne, emigrated from Greenock in 1929. Her father was John Ballantyne, who worked as a sugarhouse stoker (probably in the Tate & Lyle refinery on Drumfrochar Road). Census returns from 1881 and 1891 give his birth year as 1855. His death registration lists his parents as Duncan Ballantyne, farmer, and Helen, nee Morgan.
After that things get a little interesting: in the 1881 census return, John is living as a lodger whose status is given as unmarried (I am confident I have the right one--he is identified as Irish, and sharing lodgings with another Irishman having the same surname as his wife); in the 1891 census, he is a married man (his wife is Eliza/Elizabeth/Eliza J./Eliza Jane!, nee Hopkin/Hopkins) and he has nine children!! the three eldest of whom are born before 1881! Was Eliza married previously? Perhaps--but on his children's birth certificates he reports that he and Eliza were married in 1875, 1877, and 1880 (on three different months, in three different seasons). Twice he gives the place of marriage as Ballycastle, and once as Lagavara (which looks like not much more than a crossroads, just to the west of Ballycastle).
On the 1881 census, he reports that while all the younger children were born in Greenock, the three eldest children were born in Duns, Berwickshire; I cannot find birth records for the three eldest anywhere in Scotland.
He was apparently illiterate (he made his mark on each birth registration), so I could understand some vagueness about his anniversary--though five years rather exceeds what I'd accept!
His illiteracy has also complicated searching--his name is spelled Ballantyne, Ballentine, etc., and his wife's is also variable. This is the first time I've encountered Bonnatine!
I have a couple of marriage certificates from John's children, and they were married "after publication according to the forms of the Church of Scotland."
I haven't been able to pin down anything in Antrim either. I'd love to hear more from you!
Moderator's Note: also posted here as a new topic-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=484919.new#new
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Hi Disgruntled,
My grandmother, Ellen Ballantyne, b. 1903, was the grand-daughter of Duncan and Ellen. My mother, also Helen, is almost 80 and remembers her grandfather Duncan and Rosetta, her grandmother, though both died when she was a child. It might help you get a picture of the kind of people the family were, to hear a little of them.
Duncan junior, (born c. 1864) was a tall man with a strong Irish accent. When he was near, all the children knew that theyw ere to be quiet. He told wonderful stories - a real gift for the blarney. He was very Presbyterian. In those days, (pre WW2) the Sabbath was avery solemn and joyless day - with him it was even stricter. He would not allow his daughters to look out of the window on a Sunday.
Rosetta McLeanBallantyne (and yes, the name altered a lot - have you found Bonnatine?) was an old woman in a long black dress and a mutch, sitting in a rocking chair. Very kind and gentle, during the war she saved her precious sugar ration to make toffee for all the children. They had 11 children.
Researching this famly has been difficult, with lots of data not adding up.
The Lagavgara/Ballycastle thing may be explained by saying that at the time, at least, Lagavara was tiny and Ballycastle was probably the place which was where BMDs were registered. My grandmother always said she was born in a farm cottage by the side of the road at Carrondhu. (Not sure about the spelling.) That may have been the same family farm, but I'm not sure.
What I do know is that her Aunt Nancy ran the farm until her death, sometime, I think, in the 50s.
As for the different marriage dates. It's quite possible the marriage was not one which had a ceremony. I'm unsure about the practice in Ireland, but here in Scotland such marriages were legal, but not very respectable. They also caused questions of legitimacy.
I don't have John's name on my tree, but if you have access to GenesReunited, my tree's available to view as Elaine Ferguson. It clearly shows my problems with confusions in data.
It's great to talk to a distant cousin. I'm having trouble with this reply, but you can send me a message via genes if you wish.
Elaine
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My Grampa (Duncan) inherited his Aunt Nancy’s farm and subsequently sold it to a neighbouring farmer. I have a copy of the sale documentation.
In August 2013, I tracked the property down (it is not that easy to find as it is in a dip and hidden from view down a disused track). It is in a sad state but you can work out where the houses were. The location is just off Ballinlea Road, near its junction with Lagavara Road. The following link should take you to the spot:-
https://www.bing.com/maps?&cp=55.21176~-6.357063&lvl=19&style=h&osid=b300a150-1c7f-4c4d-9a9b-f6bed79d807d&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
I have some photos I took when I was there and am happy to share them if you are interested.
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Hi Lagavar--I'm delighted to see this topic is still active/accessible!
I'd be very interested in seeing the sales documentation for this farm. My sister and I visited Ireland/Northern Ireland last May (2017), and spent a brief time cruising Ballinlea Road; as you note, the buildings are not very visible from the road.
We also made a disappointing pilgrimage to PRONI, which, after scrolling through indexes and microfiche, yielded precisely one document: the record of the marriage of Duncan Ballentine and Rosetta (nee McLean) on 26 July 1894 at Ballintoy Parish Church (Diocese of Connor, Church of Ireland. This pretty church, which overlooks the coast, was built in 1813, and now unfortunately adjoins a road frequented by buses conveying visitors on Game of Thrones tours.) Do you have a family tree available to share? My most complete version is, like fergaine's, on Genes Reunited.
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Thanks for your message.
I have now signed up to Genes Reunited and will look for your tree and Fergaine's.
My Ballantyne tree is pretty much based on one I received from another of our "cousins" which, in turn, was based on Fergaine's - but that was about a couple of years ago so probably well out of date by now!
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I'm not sure if you managed to go inside the church however the attached photo is of the Roll of Honour and shows that Private J Ballentine served in the Army during the Great War (and presumably survived).