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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: robertd19m on Saturday 07 March 09 20:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for any information on my wife’s family who came originated from Gilnokie Tower Cottage, Canonbie. My wife’s Great Grandfather was a James Graham (DOB Abt 1831). He died on 27 Jun. 1887. His spouse was Mary McIntosh (DOB Abt 1842). She died Abt 1883. Both died at Canonbie but on a recent visit to the cemetery I could not locate their gravestone (or any other members of the family). There are many many stones - does anyone have the memorial records?
Also in this cemetery could be her Great Great Grandparents who were Alexander Graham (died 5 Sep 1883) and his wife Agnes nee Tidman, She died on 28 May 1877. Any info on the Tidmans (Tidemans) would be helpful. I think Robet was the father who married Elizabeth Beattie but I am not sure. I also believe Alexander Grahams parents were James who married Isabella Borthwick at Westerkirk in 1792. If anyone has any further information on this family it would be great to hear from you.
Cheers
Robertd
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Hi Robertd
James Graham died at Bentpath, Westerkirk on 8th May 1855 aged 84. I can see that there will be a Death Cerificate for him. This should give his parents names.
I cannot see an appropriate memorial at Canonbie for a Tidman or a relevant Graham.
You mention an Elizabeth Beattie who married a Robert. It is not clear who the Robert was (a Graham?) and how he fitted into the the others you mention.
Regards
Reiver
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Hi Robertd
These MIs from Canonbie might be the ones you're looking for, though i don't know if they're accurate:
In memory of Alexander GRAHAM who died at Rowanburn 5th September 1873 aged 63 years. Also Agnes TIDMAN his spouse who died 28th May 1877 aged 67 years. William son of Alexander GRAHAM who died at Newtown 16th Janry 1844 aged 17 months. Also Mary his daughter who died at Rowanburn 2nd Febry 1862 aged 21 years. Also Jane his daughter who died 25th Janry 1863 aged 16 years. Also Alexander GRAHAM their son who died at Rowanburn 4th Janry 1907 aged 70 years. Also Janet Irving wife of the said Alexander GRAHAM who died at Rowanburn 22nd Dec 1912 aged 76 years. Also Alexander their son who died at Rowanburn 21st Decr 1941 aged 74 years.
In memory of Mary McINTOSH wife of James GRAHAM who died at Gilnockie Cottage 18th Feby 1883 aged 38 years. Also Helen their daughter who died 6th Novr 1879 aged 3 months. Also the above James GRAHAM who died there 27th June 1887 aged 56 years. Also Margaret their daughter who died at Hollows 27th February 1896 aged 27 years.
hope this helps
Bridget
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Reiver
Thanks for taking the time to look at the MI's for Canonbie. This has been very helpful and indeed I visited the SRO today and found out a few more details.
Apologies - the Robert I referred to was Robert Tidman who I think is the father of Agnes Tidman (wife of Alexander Graham). He married Elizabeth Beattie but I know very little of the Tidmans.
Thanks again for your help.
RobertD
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Bridget
Thanks for taking the time to look up the MI's. This is exactly what we are looking for. I visited the graveyard last week but gave up when I saw all the stones (and the weather was not too good). Does the book give any clues where the stones are located? If so we will call in again next time we are down that way.
Thanks once again for your help.
Robetd
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Hi Robert Alexander Graham & Agnes Tidman were my ggg grandparents.I have 12 children for them they had a daughter Joan who married David murray i come down that line.
You are right about Agnes parents i got her death certificate of s/people.I dont know anymore about the Tidmans either.
margaret55
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Hello Margaret55
Thanks for replying and for confirming Agnes Tidman's parents are Robert & Elizabeth Beattie. I also have her parents as Robert Beatty and Mary Johnston - do you agree?
Yes the Grahams certainly were a large family of 12! My wife descends from your GGGMothers older brother James. He was born about 1831 and died at Gilnockie Cottage, Canonbie on 27 Jun. 1877. I have Joan with a DOB of Abt 1832. Most of the Graham research that we have was carried out by my wifes cousin a few years ago. When time permits I try to add any missing links I can find. I do have a bit more detail on the Grahams but perhaps you already have carried out this research?
Cheers
RobertD
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Hi Robert Agnes parents on death certificate were Robert Tidman & Elizabeth Beattie i have not found any other info that says her mother could have been called Mary Johnstone i found her birth certificate but it only named her father.
I was not really looking for her family i am doing my Laidlaw family Joan Graham & David Murray had a daughter Mary Jane who married a Peter Laidlaw.I have done a lot of research on the Grahams.I was only going to do my Laidlaws but when i got to the Grahams i found too much info to leave them out.If you want any more info on them i can tell you what i have. margaret55
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Hi Robertd
James Graham died at Bentpath, Westerkirk on 8th May 1855 aged 84. I can see that there will be a Death Cerificate for him. This should give his parents names.
I cannot see an appropriate memorial at Canonbie for a Tidman or a relevant Graham.
You mention an Elizabeth Beattie who married a Robert. It is not clear who the Robert was (a Graham?) and how he fitted into the the others you mention.
Regards
Reiver
My 4xgreat grandfather Archibald Graham is buried in Westerkirk cemetary as is his wife and several of his children, his parents and grandparents are from Canonbie, back to 1684.
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Hi Reiver There is a headstone at Canonbie Churchyard for Alexander Graham and Wife Agnes Tidman i have seen it and written all the information down about them and their children.margaret55.
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My apologies for leading Robertd astray :)
My source was the booklet of Canonbie memorials. I should have realised that these were based on the survey done in the 1960s when as a general rule burials taking place after 1855 were excluded - Yes I know there are some and in fact Canonbie has significantly more than many of the other ones. I'm glad that I was corrected.
Regards
Reiver
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Thanks all for replying
Wul Graham - do you think your 4 x Grandfather is the brother of James Graham (Alexanders father)? Said James was also buried at Westerkirk (I think) - he died at Bentspath, Westerkirk on 8 May 1855. His death cert states his father was William Graham who married an Ann Byers. They had another child named George but I know little else.
Margaret55 - Robbiesmum was kind enough to send photos of said gravestone. Perhaps she would also be kind enough to send you a copy if you want one?
Reiver - no apologies required. Glad you took the time to help. I'm easily confused!
Regards to all
RobertD
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Hi Robert i have not found any have any brothers or sisters for Alexander Graham not sure who his parents were i have James Graham & Mary ? are they possibly his parents. I have the Westerkirk memorial inscription book and have just looked for a james Graham could it be the James you metion this one is the husband of Isabella Borthwick. margaret55
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Margaret55 - thanks for replying once more.
Yes I would be interested to see what you have on the "Grahams". It would also be handy to know what is on the inscription. I can be mailed at (*)
With luck the death cert of James Graham (Alexanders father) was 1855 which meant it contained a fair bit of detail regarding his children. It listed Isabel (DOB Abt 1799), John (Abt 1800) William (Abt 1805) and Agnes (Abt 1808). Said Alexander was about 1810. James Graham's spouse was Isabella Borthwick. James Grahams father was William Graham who was married to Agnes Byers. James Graham was born in the Parish of Tundergarth at somewhere called Lambmill (that may be wrong as the writing was a little illegible),
Hope this helps
RobertD
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Thanks all for replying
Wul Graham - do you think your 4 x Grandfather is the brother of James Graham (Alexanders father)? Said James was also buried at Westerkirk (I think) - he died at Bentspath, Westerkirk on 8 May 1855. His death cert states his father was William Graham who married an Ann Byers. They had another child named George but I know little else.
Margaret55 - Robbiesmum was kind enough to send photos of said gravestone. Perhaps she would also be kind enough to send you a copy if you want one?
Reiver - no apologies required. Glad you took the time to help. I'm easily confused!
Regards to all
RobertD
Hi RobertD
Lambhill is the correct spelling, some documents are really hard to read!
Archibald Graham had siblings John, Bridget, Matthew and Marion all born in Milntown, Langholm, their father John Graham b.1717 Milntown, Langholm married Grizel Little b.1721 Milntown, Langholm. His father was James Graham b.1684 in Canonbie.
There may be a relation to the other Graham people in Westerkirk but, sorry, it is unknown to me.
http://www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes/census.aspx
My family is living at this address: Carlesgill(854)
http://www.langholmarchive.org.uk/
another good resource of information.
Regards,
Wul
edit: Have a look at my website for some pictures of Westerkirk graveyard as well a basic .ged file you can download to look at.
http://www.wulgraham.co.uk/index.html
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Wul
Excellent webpage you have created. Really informative for your family and others. I didn't realise that there were so many Graham's in the Canonbie area. I presume Westerkirk is fairly nearby. Just my luck that I can't find a tap into your findings though there must be a Westerkirk link somewhere?
Thanks meantime.
RobertD
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Wul
Excellent webpage you have created. Really informative for your family and others. I didn't realise that there were so many Graham's in the Canonbie area. I presume Westerkirk is fairly nearby. Just my luck that I can't find a tap into your findings though there must be a Westerkirk link somewhere?
Thanks meantime.
RobertD
Thanks RobertD
Much more will be added in time, you need to read "The Steel Bonnets" by George MacDonald Fraser, that will give you a better idea of Graham history in the Border area.
Bentpath, Westerkirk is an area north of Langholm on the B709 and well worth visiting if you have the time!
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Wul
Thanks for the picture. We stay in Edinburgh but will certainly take a trip to Westerkirk some time soon.
Keep up the good work
RobertD
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Hi RobertD
I was at Canonbie today and have just completed the web page for it.
http://www.wulgraham.co.uk/canonbie.html
Was also at Kirkandrews-upon-Esk
http://www.wulgraham.co.uk/kirkandrews.html
Regards,
Wul
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So happy!! ;D to find your post about .. James Graham 1855 ...children...Isabel (DOB Abt 1799), John (Abt 1800) William (Abt 1805) and Agnes (Abt 1808). Said Alexander was about 1810. James Graham's spouse was Isabella Borthwick. James Grahams father was William Graham who was married to Agnes Byers. James Graham was born in the Parish of Tundergarth at somewhere called Lambmill.
This William (abt. 1805) is my GGG-grandfather, GGGG-James (Isabella), GGGGG-William who was married to Agnes Byers.
Graham relatives to this line in Ontario, have been working on the geneology from this end -- lots of info. There was (and is) an active dig at William's (GGG) son 'George Graham's' home in Claremont, Ontario -- this is a huge family -- some relative have just met recently at the dig.
Any photos or images or documents that you can provide re: James, Isabella Borthwick, William, Agnes Byers would be greatly appreciated.
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margaret55,
link=topic=366465.msg2434573#msg2434573 date=1237154260]
...Robert Alexander Graham & Agnes Tidman were my ggg grandparents.I have 12 children for them they had a daughter Joan who married David murray i come down that line.
You are right about Agnes parents i got her death certificate of s/people.
I believe we are related...William Graham who married Agnes Byers is my GGGGGGrandfather,one of his sons, James (1771) is my GGGGGrandfather.
Birth Records: John (1765), Katherine (1769), James (1771), Helen (1771) (twins), George (1775 Knockmains), Sarah (1777). all born in Torthorwald except George (George married Margaret Rieve).
James married Isobel Borthwick, who had my GGGGrandfather William (1803).
Here are the children:
John christened 26 Apr 1794
William christened 1 Sep 1795
Isbel christened 11 Jun 1797
William christened 16 May 1802
William christened 12 Aug 1804
Agnes christened 1 Feb 1807
Alexander christened 4 May 1809
Would love to share info with you and Robert (his post is also related).
;D :D
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Hi Sandy
I am willing to share any information i have although i dont have much on all of Alexander and Agnes children.I am doing my Laidlaw ancestors and Joan was my gg grandmother.I just branched off from the Laidlaws and added the Grahams to my tree.
Do you come directly down the Graham line.
If there is anything else you want to know i will help if i can.
margaret.
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Yes, I am a direct Graham descendant:
William Graham & Agnes Byers
James Graham & Isobel Borthwick
William Graham & Hannah Bell
George Graham & Cinderella Avery
John Calvin Graham (1 of 16) & Margaret Hogan
Joseph Warren Graham & Myrtle Houston
Dorothy Carolyn Graham & Ralph Dubblestein
and me Sandra & my brother Dean
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Hi Sandy
I think you and Robert could be more related to each other than i am with either of you.
Joan Graham daughter of Alexander Graham and Agnes Tidman married David Murray she had a daughter Margaret Graham born 1841-1907 before she met David they had Alexander 1862-1862 Mary Jane 1863-1915 Agnes 1865 Isabella 1868 John 1869-1902 Alexander 1869-1940 Isabella married James Rose McKenzie born about 1867 they had a daughter Joan Graham McKenzie 1904-1906
Mary Jane Murray married Peter Laidlaw 1857-1936 they had 6 kids their daughter Elizabeth 1895-1919 married Alexander Little 1895-1964 i descend down that line.
margaret.
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I have 2 questions about the Canonbie MIs posted by robbiesmum/Bridget on 09Mar2009 and would welcome a response by ANYONE about them.
First, are Canonbie MIs available anywhere? I have the pre-1855 version, but would like the post 1855 entries which would then include the two which were posted.
Second, I am a direct decendent of William Graham + Agnes Byers, then James Graham + Isabella Borthwick and then William Graham (1804) + Hannah Bell who came to Canada. My cousin Sandy D sent me the two MIs from this site. I am trying to follow through all the Graham descendents.
The Alexander Graham in the first MI is definitely the 1804 William's younger brother and everything on it is fine with me. I'm just not sure the the MI for James Graham is Alexander Graham and Agnes Tidman's son and am looking for some confirmation.
The problem arises with the census entries in 1841/1851/1861 versus 1871/1881. The James with Alexander and Agnes in Rowanburn in 1841/1851/1861 is born in ESKDALEMUIR and is a coal miner. I have confirmed this birth from PRs. The Alexander with Mary McIntosh in 1871/1881 is born in CANONBIE and is a gamekeeper at Gilnockie. The MI matches the 1871/1881 entries perfectly.
I'm just not sure that 1841/1851/1861 match 1871/1881 and the MI for James. If the MIs are on opposite sides of the same stone or adjacent stones, they are undeniably related individuals. If they are in different parts of the cemetery, there may be no connection at all. Does anyone know?
To the good, I can find Mary's parents John and Margaret McIntosh. I also think that the Mary Graham in 1871 was really the Margaret/Maggie Graham in 1881. There is no birth record of a Mary, only Margaret. If so, the first four children Margaret, Agnes Alexander and John would fit the traditional Scottish naming pattern if the grandparents really are Alexander and Agnes Graham and John and Margaret McIntosh.
Answers anyone?
RLG
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The post 1855 Canonbie MIs are not published but I've transcribed quite a few of them on my website at:
http://longtown19.website.orange.co.uk/
(Follow the link to gravestone inscriptions, there are some post 1855 ones for Canonbie, Gretna, Half Morton and Tower of Sark)
The inscriptions were mostly made from photos so are not always accurate, so you should try to check the dates from the burial registers where possible.
Howard has photographed most but not all of the Canonbie gravestones:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Letsbikeit
As he photographed them in approximate order, when you find one you are looking for you can see which stones are next to it.
cheers
Bridget
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I have both death certificates for Alexander Graham & Agnes Tidnmam i got from scotlandspeople and both have James Graham son present when they died.
I also have the 1841 book for Canonbie and James is on the census.
Alexander Graham is my ggg grandfather.
margaret55
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Thank you for your very quick replies.
to Robbiesmum/Bridget:
Looking through the MIs and the photos, I found Mary and James at Vol 3 #165, but Alexander and Agnes weren't there. After looking through them all, I discovered that you hade a reference to the specific Photos at the bottom of each of your MIs. Browsing through the photos, I saw numerous other relevant names, so these MIs and photos are clearly going to be a valuable resource. Thanks for making them available.
to Margaret55:
Thank you too. I guess that I wasn't clear enough. My problem wasn't whether Alexander and Agnes had a son James. He's clearly there with them in 1841/1851/1861 and I found his birth in Eskdalemuir. I do appreciate the info that he was with them when they died. The difficulty was with the 1871/1881 entries which differ from the others in some ways but clearly match the MIs. I wanted to be sure that it was the SAME James Graham in both situations and that I wasn't following the wrong one after 1871. James Graham is such a common name that I have become cautious when significant details change from one census to another. I also have lots of William Grahams and John Grahams and have to be very careful with them. Sometimes people also have parents or grandparents who have passed down information/recollections/records, etc which help establish the correct lineage.
Add on:
While looking at the MIs, I happened across Thomas Hope Graham who also is connected to Gilnockie. While checking the censuses, I saw that he also changed from being a coal miner to game keeper. Thomas is a younger brother of James by 18 years. (This was like icing on the cake after seeing how well James' children followed the Scottish naming pattern.) I guess he was following in his older brother's footsteps. I can only assume that whoever was home on census day when the enumerator came around in 1871 and 1881 erroneously reported James' birthplace as Canonbie instead of Eskdalemuir.
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I am hitting a wall in my research and wonder if anyone has further information. My problems revolve around WILLIAM GRAHAM and AGNES BYERS.
I can find Agnes' birth in 1842 to George Byers who married Grisil Johnston (both events in Westerkirk). I can find the births her of children George G (1775) and Sarah G (1777), both in Westerkirk. I have the 1855 death info provided by Helen Graham (George's daughter from Bentpath) which also identifies James Graham (1771) as the son of William and Agnes G.
I know that James married Isabel Borthwick, George married Peggy Rieve and Sarah married Peter Byars/Byers -- all in Westerkirk -- and I have been following their descendents.
Where does James come from? I have discounted the connection to a James Graham from Torthorwald and his siblings (whose father was a William Graham) because I can't find any sign that they had anything to do with Westerkirk or the surrounding parishes (births, marriages or censuses) while James, George and Sarah do. I have concluded that James, George and Sarah are the only verifiable children for William and Agnes.
I am clinging to the belief that the James in Westerkirk was the one baptized in Hutton and Corrie in Mar 1771. When I checked those PRs, I got no other children there (maybe bacause the recording of BMDs stopped after 1771 and only resumed in the 1800's) for William.
Can ANYONE confirm the James -- Hutton and Corrie connection? The 1855 information seems to suggest a Torthowald connection. Does anyone have any other children for William and Agnes?
As for WILLIAM GRAHAM, where did he come from? I can't even find his marriage to Agnes. Was it perhaps an irregular marriage which missed getting recorded? (James and Isabella's in 1792 was irregular and they were fined by the church for it, but it was recorded by the church.) William is like a phantom to me -- appearing only as a father with no verifiable info on him to this point.
RLG
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OOPS. re WILLIAM GRAHAM and AGNES BYERS, there IS another child listed in Westerkirk for William Graham. It is John Graham born 28 May 1784 and baptized 30 May 1784. I can't find anything further about him. He is close enough to Sarah (1777)to have been their child too.
Any ideas?
RLG
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OOPS. re WILLIAM GRAHAM and AGNES BYERS, there IS another child listed in Westerkirk for William Graham. It is John Graham born 28 May 1784 and baptized 30 May 1784. I can't find anything further about him. He is close enough to Sarah (1777)to have been their child too.
Any ideas?
RLG
My Graham family is from Westerkirk at the same time your family is and may well be related from previous generations, have you been to the cemetery at Bentpath or have the MI's for it?
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Some more Graham monuments, none of these four are my Graham line.
My Graham line Archibald, John and Grisel are near the Johnstone mausoleum and information is on my website if you want a look.
Wul
p.s. sorry about the brightness of the pictures, I went too late in the day and digital camera's struggle with very strong light!
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I think they must be the same Grahams as mine. my Alexander was from Westerkirk i dont have the Bentpath memorials nor have i been there.
My alexanders daughter Joan Graham 18-11-1833 1920 married David Murray 1841-1907 one of their children Mary Jane Murray 14-11-1863 19-01-1915 married Peter Laidlaw 24-08-1857 30-03-1936 their daughter Elizabeth Honeyman Laidlaw 23-09-1895 23-07-1919 married Alexander Little 17-11-1895 nov 1964 i am a descendant from them.
margaret55
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to wul graham
The people in the 2 pictures of the one tombstone are relatives. William Graham (1806-1895) is the eldest son of George Graham (1775) and the others mentioned are some of his family members. This George is the brother of my direct ancestor James (1771-1855) who married Isabella Borthwick. Thus, both George and James are sons of William Graham and Agnes Byers, while the William on the stone is a grandson. (There is also a Sarah Graham who is a sister to James and George. There may also be a younger brother John 1884 as I mentioned in my OOPS memo. I welcome any further intelligence about him in the hope of verifying or rejecting him.)
The Agnes Graham who married Adam Edgar is a closer relative. She is a daughter of James Graham (1771-1855) and a younger sister to my gg grandfather William Graham (1804-1880) who emigrated to Canada with his wife Hannah Bell and their childrensomewhere around 1853. Obviously this William (1804-1880) is also a son of James.
The third inscription I am unable to read, so I can't comment.
To the best of my knowledge at this point, we are not related.
No, I have never been to Scotland, but my wife and I hope to rectify this within a couple of years. I do have the Westerkirk MIs. You forwarded them to a cousin of mine last year and he forwarded them to me. They have proven very useful indeed. Thank you.
to Margaret55
We are definitely related. Your Alexander (1809-1873) is a younger sibling of my William Graham (1804-1880) who came to Canada as was Agnes who married Adam Edgar in wulgraham's picture. All three (William, Agnes and Alexander) were children of James (1771-1855). (I'm guessing that the last picture wulgraham took might be his tombstone, but I can't see it well enough.) There are two other siblings who lived -- John 1799 who married Helen Thomson and Isbel 1797 who married Thomas Hope. I also believe that there were 3 more sibling -- one John and two Williams -- who died early in life.
to both
I was suggesting that the James Graham (1771-1855) might be the one baptized in Hutton and Corrie to William Graham. The death entry in 1855, though, suggests suggests some connection to Tundergarth through a place called Lambhill. The statement to this effect was made by his neice Helen Graham who we have deduced is his younger brother George's daughter, a younger sister of the William in your first photograph.
I can't find any information on the birth of William Graham (James, George and Sarah's father), his marriage to Agnes Byers or the deaths of William and Agnes. The are no Westerkirk MIs for them or burial entries to the best of my knowledge. His wife Agnes Byers was born in 1742, so I'm guessing that William was probably born about 1740. He may have been an Ag Lab like his sons James and George and so may have been transient for part of his life. Even if James was born in Hutton and Corrie, it doesn't mean his father William was born or even firmly established there.
wul, what do you know about the parents of your Archibald Graham? They seem to be contemporaries of James, George and Sarah in Westerkirk. Perhaps there is a connection after all. I won't bet on it though because there are Grahams by the bushel everywhere in Dumfries!
RLG
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wul, what do you know about the parents of your Archibald Graham? They seem to be contemporaries of James, George and Sarah in Westerkirk. Perhaps there is a connection after all. I won't bet on it though because there are Grahams by the bushel everywhere in Dumfries!
RLG
Archibald Graham's father was a John Graham a miller from Milntown, Langholm, Dumfriesshire born in 1717 and died in Langholm Mill, 01/08/1799 and mother Grizel Little born in 1721 Milntown, Langholm Mill, Dumfrieshire died in Langholm Mill, 18/10/1757 and grandparents John Graham also a miller from Milntown, Langholm, Dumfriesshire born 1671 Milntown, Langholm, Dumfriesshire died 11/11/1729 Langholm Mill, Langholm, Dumfriesshire and Marion Little from Langholm born 1684 unknown death date.
This link will get you the birth cert for Archibald as I don't think I am allowed to display it here?
http://www.wulgraham.co.uk/graham_docs/1750.BC.Archibald.Graham.jpg
Wul
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About Alexander Graham and Agnes Tidman
To margaret55
I am having some difficulty with Joan Graham's birthdate of 18 Nov 1833. The next child down, Robert, has a christening date of 29 Jun 1834, but the previous child, James, has a birthdate of 6 Jun 1830. Could the birthyear possibly be in 1832 or much earlier in 1833?
Thank you for the info about Joan, It tied up one of my loose ends.
To anyone:
I now have info on what happened to 10 children -- James 1830, Joan 1832/3, Robert 1834, Alexander 1836, Mary 1841, William 1842, William 1844, Jane 1846, Thomas Hope 1848 and Agnes 1851.
Do you have any info about what happened to any of the other 3? -- Elizabeth 1826 (born Linton), Isabella 1839 and John 1855. All are such common Scottish names that I couldn't uniquely identify them after they leave home.
I DO see John with his sister Agnes Armstrong in 1881. I MIGHT be seeing him in 1891 -- age 33, coachman in Auchenrick, Canonbie with wife Nancy (From England) and son Robert, 2. (can anyone comfirm or reject?) I lose him completely in 1901.
I understand some people show them with 14 children, not 13. Have I missed anyone?
rlg
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To wulgraham
Thank you for the parental info
Actually, my Grahams do have some Langholm connections. John Graham 1799, the oldest son of James Graham 1771 and Isabella Borthwick 1767 who survived, was baptized in Langholm. I had always assumed that was because Isabella B was born in Langholm (parents Alexander B and Isobel Paisley). I guesstimated that James' father William Graham was born around 1740 because his mother Agnes Byers was born (in Westerkirk) in 1742. John is a prominent name in every generation of my Grahams beginning with James and Isabella's children, but I can't pin down the source of it.
The other 7 children (4 survived) were all baptized in Westerkirk.
Do you by any chance have the Langholm MIs?
rlg
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sorry about getting Joan Grahams date of birth wrong dont even remember where i got that from.Here is somthing that is going to throw you all i decided to go on s/people to look for her birth but its not there so i looked for her death certificate and found it according to it Alexander Graham is her father but her mother is Georgina Graham and her maiden is also Graham and i know it is the right Joan because her son inlaw James McKenzie was with her when she died.The age fits the year she died fits (1920) and the husband named is David Murray.So unless Alexander was married before Agnes Tidman.I will now look and see if i can find Joans marriage to see who it say is her mother.
I will get back to you all if i find it.
margaret55
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margaret55
I think you are still correct. The only problem is Joan's birthdate. Here's why...
The only Georgina I've come across to this point is Georgina Nichol/Scott (1850-1907). It looks like her real name was Nichol, but she was raised by her grandparents whose name was Scott. (census info) She was married to Robert Graham (1834-1889) who was the 4th child of Alexander Graham and Agnes Tidman -- Joan was the 3rd.
Was this James McKenzie the informant? Could he have mixed up Alexander's wife Agnes Tidman with son Robert's wife Georgina? I've run across informants who mixed up their own grandparents! After Joan died in 1920, David Murray, Alexander, Agnes, Robert and Georgina were also all dead. Which child James Mc Kenzie was married to? The later ones might have been too young to even remember their grandparents Alexander and Agnes.
If you want to check out Robert and Georgina, Robbiesmum has them on the website she gave out on 19 Oct 2010 and there is a photo at the 2nd site she gave, volume 3 #172.
I think that you will be especially interested in the inscription Robbiesmum has beginning "In memory of Alexander son of David and Joan Murray...". It even mentions a McKenzie grandchild. Sorry, but I don't see a reference to a picture.
rlg
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to rlg
I have a census book for Canonbie 1841 i looked in there to see if there was a Georgina Nichol or Scott i found Georgina Nichol at no 7 Byreburnfoot age 11 yrs she was a female servant.I dont know who she was living with no one else was at no 7.
James McKenzie was the informant for Joan Graham /Murray.
I have been to Canonbie Churchard a few times looking for infomation on my ancestors and i have seen Alexander & Agnes headstone & David & Joans also.
That is how i found out about James.
James Rose McKenzie from Melrose married Isabella Murray at the Wood Rowanburn Canonbie.They married on the 11th September 1896 James was 21yrs Isabella 28yrs.Their daughter Joan Graham McKenzie died at Melrose on 05/11/1906 age 2yrs.
On their marriage certificate Joan is down as Johanna Murray with miss Graham underneath.
margaret55
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Re Robert Tidman (father of Agnes Tidman) - he was born in Nottingham 1776 and died in Selkirk 27 Feb 1855 aged 79 at the home of his daughter Mary (Tidman) Gray. He was my 3 Gts Grandfather and I have his death certificate.
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In my last message I should have mentioned that Robert Tidman and his wife Elizabeth (my 3 Gts) are to be found on both the 1841 and 1851 Census records at the Tushilaw Inn, Ettrick, Selkirk. In 1851 Robert is described as a 75 yr old Farm Labourer (once a Sailor) born in Nottingham and Elizabeth is then 83 yrs old. She must have died between 1851 and 1855 as she is not on the death records post 1855.
These Census records are for some reason not available on Ancestry but they can be found in the Census records of Scotland's People.
On Robert's death certificate he has three daughters: Agnes (44), Mary (42) and Jane (40) -
Widower of Elizabeth Beattie.
IAM
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Hi Iam
I havnt followed Agnes family further back than her.i knew who her parents were from her death certificate. But i have concentrated on the Laidlaws more because they have come forward until almost present day.
margaret55
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I have found the deaths of some Grahams in TUNDERGARTH Parish (FHL microfilm 1067971) to whom I MAY be related because the timing is right and I know the family had connections there. I would appreciate it if anyone is able to tell me any more about the following people:
William Graham of Peatstackdale interred 23 May 1820 age 76 (=> born 1743)
James Graham of Peatstackdale interred 10 Feb 1820 age 73 (=> born 1746)
Margaret Graham of Peatstackdale interred 9 Jan 1813 age 32 (=> born 1780)
also Agness Byers of Banks died 22 Aug 1836 (no age given)
MY INTEREST? My 3rd GGrandfather James Graham (1771-1855) had parents William Graham and Agnes Byers according to his 1855 death registration. This registration shows a longterm connection to Lambhill in Tundergarth parish. I know nothing more about William Graham. No birth or marriage info. My Agnes B was born in 1742 in Westerkirk, so this is the only William G in Tundergarth who would be about the right age to be her husband. An age for Agness at death would have helped confirm or reject these people as related, but alas ...
The William and James here look like brothers while Margaret could be a daughter to one of them.
Information anyone?
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Hi
I have a sarah graham marrying francis mcintosh at canonbie in 1799, and im more or less certain that francis's parents were now james mcintosh born canonbie and mary bell born around 1740's in canonbie. I had thought the parents were charles and mary mcintosh nee teasdale, but have discovered that both brothers had sons named francis at around the same time. H\as anyone any info on the parents of these two brothers, james and charles mcintosh. Charles was born in 1750, james approx 1740. Parents names were francis Mcintosh born 1709 in canonbie and hanna forrester/forster.
frankie
ps have seen the m.i pics of burials of james and mary in canonbie churchyard, living at hollos, or hollows. Which is the correct name for the area does anyone know. ?
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hi
do you have the parents names of mary mcintosh born approx 1842? i have macintosh's born in that area of canonbie, and wondered if mary may be connected to them.?
frankie
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I have only just registered on this site, and have been reading this most interesting thread. You may be interested to know that Rober Graham, a son of Alexander Graham and agnes Tidman, married Georgina Nichol on 25th February 1870 in Canonbie.
My interest is through Georgina Nichol, who was the illegitimate daughter of Ann Scott of Hollows, Canonbie, and William Nichol. Ann Scott's parents, George Scott (blacksmith of Hollows) and Ann Hogg were my gt. gt. gt. grandparents.
The 1871 census shows Robert and Georgina living at Rownaburn, Canonbie, with their daughter Ann aged 4 months. Robert was a coal miner. In 1881 they had 4 children, Ann, Agnes, Mary and Jane.
I hope this might be of interest to you.
Regards
G
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I know this thread is several years old, but does anyone know what happened to Wul Graham's website? It doesn't seem to work anymore, and many of the records he had would solve several brick walls. Especially the MIs for Westerkirk and the baptism record of Archibald Graham (1750).
Thanks.
- HC
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Wul,
Do you have a new website? your link that's posted in this thread does not work, please advise and thank you.
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trying to help, I've also posted a request to find out if anyone knows what's happened to Wul's website.
Try the search box at the top of the screen and type in 'westerkirk archibald graham' you might be able to find some info or google 'westerkirk archibald graham 1750 maybe the MI is posted some where else
www.familycentral.net/index/search.cfm?ref1=4633:1557
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see the post at the top, hope it helps. let me also check and see if he's in my extensive tree
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familysearch.org has an Archibald Graham born in (Westerkirk) May 27, 1750 in Langholm, Dumfries, Scotland :) they may have MIs on their site