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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Wendy Mc on Saturday 24 April 04 07:56 BST (UK)
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Looking to exchange information with any McGeorge researchers who have ancestors from this area.
cheers,
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
I am delighted to 'find' another McGeorge researcher. My GG grandfather was Samuel McGeorge, born c1837 in Kirkpatrick Durham.
I have been doing a one name study on McGeorge for several years and have quite a large data base on McGeorges, world wide. can I help you?
I have my own family on a web page if you would like to check it out
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/m/Kay-Elizabeth-Campbell/index.htm
cheers
Kay
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thanks Kay but you very kindly helped me 2 years ago.
My g.g. g'parents were Walter McGeorge and Ann McDonald. They had Jane McGeorge b.abt. 1860 who married Gillanders Findlay and lived in Essendon, Vic. Aust. They had my g'mother Vera Jane Findlay who married Alfred George Price. You sent me what you had so far on my line and it has been very much appreciated. Glad to see you are also using this site which is already proving to be one of the most helpful around.
Thanks again, Wendy (Melbourne)
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Hi. This is a McGeorge researcher. I was born in Dumfries 1957 Lived in Auchencairn in early years.and have got back to a birth in 1793 Parton.James McGeorge. I have his parents names from his death cert. but can't find a dickie bird on either of them (Walter McGeorge & Helen McLellan)Most of my branch were from Kirkcudbrightshire parishes.. Kay also helped me with my research.
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Hi Linda,
Nice to hear from you. Most of my McGeorge info is compliments of Kay except for what I have on my line that came to Australia. I haven't come across those names you mentioned however there were quite a few Walter McGeorges'. Mine all lived either Kircudbrightshire or Taunton, Somerset. I feel sure that your James will be connected to my lot in some way, being from Kircudbright. It's just a matter of finding out how exactly.
I'll keep a lookout for the ones you mentioned.
best wishes,
Wendy.......Melbourne, Australia.
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Hi Wendy,
Years ago my dad said that some of his sister's children moved to Australia Sheila or Patricia I think their names were. I'll have to find where I wrote that down.
Kay gave me info on a sister of my furthest back James:-Jane McGeorge Married.. John Barclay. She obviously also had Walter McG & Helen McClellan as parents. So I started a quest to find other children.Every time I came across a family with children named Walter and Helen I'd do a bit of checking up.
In 1851 census I found at Mains Cottage,Balmaghie Parish
Wm Head Blacksmith 52 born Parton
Harriet Wife 44 England
Eliza dghtr 20 "
Harriet " 11 "
HELEN " 14 "
WALTER son 17 "
Wm son 8 "
(My James b. 1793 & Jane were born in Parton)
I found this family in 'familysearch' site: wife & children were born Taunton ,somerset.!!
Your family? If it is, have you got William's death cert?
for parents info.
I have put some of my tree on Genes Reunited.R u a amember? but most is on my Family tree maker at home.
I was emailing a FrankMacGeorge in New Zealand a year or so ago. but haven't emailed him for ages.
Found his email at Dum & Gal FHS
I'll stop waffling now. Love Linda
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Hello Wendy
This information may not be of any use to you at all.
I am researching my gg grandfather William Murray. I have a copy of the Parish of Parton, Kirkcudbrightshire Births and Baptisms for 1833.
There is an entry for a child - lawful son of James McGeorge born on August 19th baptised 6th September 1833. Unusually there is no mention of the mother for this child. The writing is incredibly difficult to read. I have tried and tried to decipher the first name. I cannot make it out. However the second christian name is Crosbie. This James McGeorge lives at Wellhouse. The child was baptised by the Rev W.G Crosbie.
Yours J.A
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Wonder if I can butt in on the McGEORGE discussion? I have had great help from Kay in the past, don't know if she remembers?
I have access to the Kirk Session records for Urr and the McGEORGE family features quite a lot, especially a John McGEORGE who after lots of escapades with the girls eventually married a Jean/Jane BAXTER. They had my husband's 4xg.grandmother Elizabeth McGEORGE in Urr in 1807. I could not find who John's father was, but he is mentioned in the Kirk Session records which was great - Peter McGEORGE. I have not come across any mention of a Peter McGEORGE prior to this. Any connections anywhere?
Anne - Melbourne
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Wendy
I've finally managed to decipher the name I was telling you about on the Parton birth register 1833 . It is Alexander. Hope this will help you.
J.A
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Hello to my McGeorge cousins, one day we will find that link.!
Anne I am interested in the Kirk Session records you mentioned. Did you get them through the LDS on film? Are you able to give me the details of McGeorge and what years do they cover.?
thanks
Kay
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Hi Kay,
I actually had to buy the Kirk Session Records through the Society I belong to here in Melbourne, they are not available through the LDS, 'no distribution to FHCs'. The Session Records themselves only cover years 1806-1847 and also Disciplines 1815-1838. There is a lot about John McGeorge, they took it all down just about word for word and it is fascinating. He was a very naughty boy!! Apart from naming his father, nothing on the family. It is very time consuming reading the records as you really have to read each entry for each meeting. John McGeorge was up before the Kirk elders at least three times, accused of fathering children by three different girls. One particular entry gives a blow by blow account of just what happened, and how John McGeorge and his father Peter tried to persuade her to abort the child. I am very pleased I lashed out and got them, cost about thirty pounds I think. I also got the parish records for Urr, they cost almost as much. Doesn't help with links, but interesting all the same.
Anne
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Hi Anne, John sounds as though he was a busy man! Can you tell me the names of the women and if the babies were named. Often in Scotland the illg. child carried on with the father's name. It might help me to narrow down some names.
Also does it say what John and his father Peter did for a living and where they were living? Poor people, little did they realise that 200years later their 'sins' were going around the world.
What Society did you buy them through? They sound quite fascinating.
thanks
Kay
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Kay,
Jean Baxter was one of them, but he eventually married her after two illigitimate children, Elizabeth in 1807 and John in 1810. Elizabeth Moffat also accused him in 1810, in this case John said he had witnesses that had heard her name another man as the father of the child. They were all related to him in one way or another and included the mother of Jean Baxter! Before that was Janet Stuart in 1808. She eventually married so the child might have taken the step-father's name. She was living in Grosmichael in 1815 when the case was dragged up because John "has never cleared himself of this scandal." This was the one that included the story of how John and his father tried to persuade her to abort the child. In 1835 there is mention of John McGeorge again being up before the Elders for fornication with a Barbara Gurr. He confesses his guilt and they are admonished. Now, this is not the same John as he died in 1832, so perhaps son John following in father's footsteps!
No occupation for either John or his father Peter McGeorge, but they came from Auchenreoch, near Urr.
I belong to the Australian Institute of Genealogical Studies here in Melbourne, a genealogists paradise, and I got the records through them. They hold them now and anyone can look at them, it's how we build up our holdings.
If you want anything looked up in Urr, let me know.
Cheers,
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Thank you for all that lovely information about John and his father Peter, I didn't have that, and everything is most welcome. I used to belong to that Gen soc and used to visit it when I went Melbourne. As you said it is absolutely wonderful and I could have spent all my holiday just there!
Kay
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Hello again Wendy.
In doing my research for the Murray family in Urr I came across Elizabeth McGeorge who married a James Murray. In the 1851 census for Springholm Urr (dumgal.gov site) she is described as a widow (and runs a grocer's shop if I recall). She has several young children. I've also come across this Elizabeth and James on another site including a list of births for Murray/McMurray.
I hope this snippet is of use to you.
Yours J.A
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Hello!
Hope you don't mind if I butt in? I am very interested in the MURRAY and McGEORGE families from Urr, and do have quite a lot of information. James MURRAY and Elizabeth McGEORGE are my husband's 3xg.grandparents. James was about 40 years older than Elizabeth and died before the 1851 census as you know, and she never married again. Among their children was another James MURRAY, he married a girl from Dumfries, in London, and in 1877 they went to South Australia with their family.
If you would like any more info. do let me know. Can you tell me the site you found James and Elizabeth on please?Anne - Melbourne, Australia
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i am interested in finding william mc george born in newcastle roughly year 1926 had a sister anne
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Sorry, I can't help with that one.
Anne - Melbourne
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Hi, folks -
I am new to this chat forum, though not to Roots Web and so on (Hi, Kay - it's been a while since we were in touch!), and I have also been helped by Kay with my McGeorges. I am still fighting a brick wall, and will post what I know here below, in case anyone happens to come across any clues that might help me.
My basic information, gleaned from my great-aunt (who was known to make mistakes, but we aren't sure if this is correct or not since we have not found other info to countermand it), is that she was the daughter of William McGeorge, born in 1841 in Bath, England to William McGeorge of Kirkpatrick-Durham, Stewartry of Kirkcudbright, Scotland. That Scottish William is reputed to have been born in 1799 since he appears on the England 1850 census as 51 years old, and on the 1860 US census as 61. His date of birth may be either August, April or October of 1799.
Scottish William (aka William Sr., as I usually call him) married Mary Ann Haddock of Woolwich, Eng on Sept. 23, 1830 at St. Mary Magdalen Church. We have records of that marriage, but we have no records of who William's parents are, no verification that he was born IN Kirkpatrick-Durham, no positive ID on any siblings, although my great-aunt reported that he had (at least) one brother, Robert.
There is an Alexander McGeorge, who married Agnes Glover and lived in Kirkpatrick-Irongray and who, among other children, had a son William who was born in 1799. At the moment, this does not appear to be my family, though with the similarity of family names there could be a relationship, a fairly close one, perhaps, between the families.
Names that may appear in my McGeorge family include: William, Robert, Anne or Anna, Amelia, Janet, Arthur, Mary, Wallace, John ... judging from subsequent generations, and trying to separate McGeorge names from the ones that came in via the Haddock, Wilcox and Percy families on the English side.
I am still in Iceland, where genealogical facilities for me are only online, so I would love any leads to new possibilities. But I am looking forward to a potential sabbatical during the 2007-2008 school year, when I will spend time in Scotland and plan to work hard on this brick wall.
Meanwhile, thanks to RootsWeb for sponsoring this sort of chat - it was nice to find today in a spare moment between students (I teach singing, etc.), and thanks to anyone who has suggestions for me to follow up on.
Muff
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Hi Wendy,
I am delighted to 'find' another McGeorge researcher. My GG grandfather was Samuel McGeorge, born c1837 in Kirkpatrick Durham.
I have been doing a one name study on McGeorge for several years and have quite a large data base on McGeorges, world wide. can I help you?
I have my own family on a web page if you would like to check it out
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/m/Kay-Elizabeth-Campbell/index.htm
cheers
Kay
Hi, Kay - Just me again, my computer having lost your e-mail, so using this to get info to you. I just looked up a will for John McGeorge of Lochside of Corse, Kirkcudbright, who died 6th June 1826. His executor and listed next-of-kin was his nephew William McGeorge. John died intestate, so no goods listed, and obviously no wife or children - may have outlived them, or may never have married, etc. But if perchance his nephew William happens to be MY William Sr., then it would locate him in Scotland in 1826, perfectly logical, since my first record of him in England is in 1829 when he became one of the founders of a church parish group in Bath. But ... William being a very common McGeorge name, do you have any clues on this John McGeorge of Corse (or Corsock) of Kirkcudbright? John is one of my family names, but then it is fairly common anyway. Thanks much -
Muff
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Wendy,
I may have another/deeper connection for you.
"According to the family", Janet McGeorge married John Barclay c1810.
Their daughter Agnes is one of my great^3-grandmothers.
She married a James Robison & moved to Australia.
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Hi
Sometimes you just don't see what is on front of you. I've read your message before but it just did not register. Doh!
I see you have information on the Murray's of Urr. Is this Murray information only in connection with the McGeorge family or do you have other Murray's please?
Yours
J.A
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I really only have info. on MURRAYs in regard to the McGEORGE family, although I have followed through with the marriages of the siblings of my James MURRAY, son of James MURRAY and Elizabeth McGEORGE.
I see from an earlier posting of yours that you found Elizabeth and James MURRAY on another site, can you tell me where please? Do you have a connection to these MURRAYs?
Happy Christmas,
Anne
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Hi everyone,
I have Elizabeth McGeorge married to James Murray death cert if thats a help
Elizabeth Murray, widow of James Murray, master grocer, 9th Jan, Springholm, 75yrs,
parents: John McGeorge, farmer, dec & Jane Baxter
fatty degeneration of heart, several years, general debility
Elizabeth Row/Rae, daughter present, Southwick Lodge
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Could you possibly scan this and send it to me please. Elizabeth McGeorge is my husband's 3xg.grandmother and it would be a nice addition to my file.
I would be very grateful indeed.
Regards,
Anne
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Hi Anne
The site that I found the Murray/McGeorge information on is //homepage.rootsweb.com/~scottish/Murray-McMurray.html (I just put in 'Murray/McMurray' in the google and it comes up.) The record you are looking for is 298.
Yours J.A.
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Happy New Year to our McGeorge cousins.
Would the people researching the Walter McGeorge and Helen Mclellan like to email me privately. I can then send what I have on this family
(*)
my web page on my own family is http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/m/Kay-Elizabeth-Campbell/index.html
For some reason it keeps saying that it has moved. It maybe because the address is so long and goes onto the next line
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Hello everyone,
Last year I posted (I thought :-\) quite a long reply to all of you. I have been absent from the site for over 6mths and have just noticed my reply never made it. I have read that this can happen with posts of considerable length. I apologise for what must have seemed rudeness on my part.
I hope you are all making progress........I'm not!! :)
warm wishes,
Wendy (Melbourne)
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I posted some info yesterday on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,132759.0.html regarding Janet McGeorge who married John Barclay/Berkley in 1810 in Kirpatrick Durham. This might be of interest to those of you researching this family.
Regards.
Monica
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Hello to all,
Just dropped in as another McGeorge researcher. Our branch comes William McGeorge and Mary Scott . I have a James Mcgeorge born 1826 between Margaret and Janet. This branch does not show on any current research on the net. If interesred drop me line.
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Hi McKiwi,
Lovely to hear fom you. I haven't yet put this line on our tree on the web site yet as I was hoping to also add another line but still strying to prove it
Kay
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Have a THOMAS McGEORGE born 1797 in URR PARISH (says US naturalizaton papers). Other details: left Scotland 9 June 1817, and in the U.S. (Maine) first settled in Marion Township on 20 Dec. 1826. May 3, 1835 he moved to East Machias township, settling about nine miles north of the town, where the railway tracks cross Route 191. Any guesses on his parents or best way forward?
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Hi T Moffat,
The Thomas first name is fairly unusual for McGeorges. There were a few in Urr around that date, but no Thomas born 1797. Unfortunately about this date there was a tax put onto parish register entries, so people of course didn't bother. I have quite a few McGeorges born about this date, but not in the old Parish Registers and had died before the 1851 census Very frustrating.
The closest Thomas I can come up with was born 1814, Urr, however he married Jane Blacklock 1850 in Urr. This family went to Missouri.
Who did your Thomas marry? Sometimes I can connect families through the wifes name.
cheers
Kay,Perth Australia
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Hi everyone,
I have a John McGeorge born about 1775 in Auchenreoch, Kirkudbright which is very near to Urr. This John married a Jean Baxter abt 1816 in Springholm, Urr. His father was a Peter McGeorge and I THINK he had brothers William abt. 1773, Robert abt. 1787 and Thomas abt. 1795. The last one would tie in with Thomas found in the USA born 1797. None of this is proven (except that John McGeorge had a father Peter McGeorge), but I will try and have a look at the Urr registers again sometime this week and see if I can find more.
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This Thomas McGeorge emigrated 1817, and married in Marion Township in eastern Maine to a woman from Perry, Maine, Isetta Norwood, on 28 Sep 1836. The naturalization papers are certainly clear on the birthplace and year. The Urr Parish website is helpful with the 1802 Voters List, which does focus attention on Hermitage as the most likely location. Hermitage was within the Spotts estate, Michael Herries landlord at that time.
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This is what I have on the Hermitage McGeorge's
Descendants of William McGeorge
As I said there are gaps
Kay
1 William McGeorge b: Abt. 1690 Urr KKD Sct? d: 02 Aug 1774 Midtown, Urr KKD Sct
.. +Agnes Herries b: Abt. 1690 m: Abt. 1729 Urr KKD Sct? d: 15 Feb 1784 Urr KKD Sct
........ 2 Thomas McGeorge b: Abt. 1729 Urr KKD Sct d: Jan 1792 Hermitage Urr KKD Sct
............ +Martha Mitchel b: Abt. 1730 d: Nov 1788
................... 3 William McGeorge b: Abt. 1765 Hermitage Urr KKD Sct ? d: 22 Feb 1840 Glen of Spottes, Urr KKD Sct
....................... +Mary Clark b: Abt. 1782 m: Abt. 1814 d: 25 Aug 1867 Glencairn DFS Sct
............................. 4 Thomas McGeorge b: 14 May 1814 Urr KKD Sct d: Aft. 1880 Ray Co Missouri USA
................................. +Jane Blacklock b: Abt. 1826 Kelton KKD Sct m: 04 Oct 1850 Urr KKD Sct d: Aft. 1880 Ray Co Missouri USA
........................................ 5 William McGeorge b: 13 Sep 1851 Kelton KKD Sct
........................................ 5 Thomas McGeorge b: Abt. 1855 Glencairn DFS Sct
........................................ 5 Agnes Clerk McGeorge b: 22 Apr 1857 Dunscore DFS Sct
........................................ 5 James McGeorge b: 13 Jun 1859 Glencairn DFS Sct
............................................ +Mamie Clampett? m: 31 Jan 1891 Ray Co Missouri USA
........................................ 5 Helen McGeorge b: 09 Aug 1860 Glencairn DFS Sct
........................................ 5 John Clark McGeorge b: 02 Mar 1863 Glencairn DFS Sct
........................................ 5 Frederick Jane Clark McGeorge b: 08 Jan 1867 Glencairn DFS Sct d: 05 Feb 1867 Bankhead Glencairn DFS Sct
........................................ 5 Fredrick Sam Clark McGeorge b: 06 Mar 1868 Glencairn DFS Sct
........................................ 5 Mary McGeorge b: Abt. 1854
............................................ +William Crocket b: Abt. 1850 Dumfries? Sct m: 24 Sep 1877 Ray Co Missouri USA
............................. 4 William McGeorge b: 13 Jul 1816 Hermitage Urr KKD Sct d: 17 Sep 1836 Glen of Spottes, Urr KKD Sct
............................. 4 John McGeorge b: Abt. 17 Apr 1819 Glen of Spottes, Urr KKD Sct d: 23 Feb 1820 Glen of Spottes, Urr KKD Sct
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Thanks for the Hermitage info. The two things I didn't mention about Thomas McGeorge b. 1797:
1. Thomas McGeorge died suddenly (heart?) in Dec. 1849
2. Children, in order: Mary Elizabeth, Laura J., Margaret, Ruth Anne, Thomas F., Martha
Tom Moffatt
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On the 1802 Ballot List - these are the McGeorges:
McGeorge William Farmer Hermitage
McGeorge James Farmer Hermitage
McGeorge Thos Farmer Hermitage
McGeorge Joseph Farmer Maskfart
McGeorge Robert Farmer Nudtoun?
Given that my Thomas McGeorge is not a son of William, and neither Joseph nor Robert show up anywhere in the family in Maine, I would suggest likelihood of father as: 1. Thomas, and 2. James.
QUESTION: Do you have anything on this Thomas McGeorge who would have been a farmer at Hermitage in 1802?
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Hi tom,
this is what I have on another Urr McGeorge family
Can't see anything that fits, ... yet
I will certainly keep on looking for possible Thomas's
Kay
Descendants of Peter McGeorge
1 Peter McGeorge 1750 - 1808 b: Abt. 1750 d: Aft. 1808
........ 2 John McGeorge 1775 - 1832 b: Abt. 1775 Urr? KKD Sct d: 14 Oct 1832 Springholm, Urr, KKD Sct
............ +Jean Baxter 1777 - 1878 b: Abt. 1777 d: 14 Mar 1878 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct
................... 3 John McGeorge 1811 - 1849 b: Abt. 1811 d: 1849 Liverpool LAN Eng
....................... +Jane Gordon 1806 - 1849 b: Abt. 1806 d: 1849 Liverpool LAN Eng m: 15 Apr 1839 Liverpool LAN Eng
............................. 4 John Gordon McGeorge 1840 - 1910 b: Abt. 02 Aug 1840 Wigtown WIG Sct d: 31 Dec 1910 Castle Douglas, KKD Sct
............................. 4 Samuel McGeorge 1841 - b: Abt. 21 Dec 1841 Wigtown WIG Sct
................... 3 Elizabeth McGeorge 1807 - b: 04 May 1807 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct
................... 3 William McGeorge 1810 - 1897 b: Abt. 1810 Urr, KKD Sct d: 12 Oct 1897 Cowra NSW Aus
....................... +Ellen Smith m: 22 Jun 1846 Liverpool LAN Eng
............................. 4 William Smith McGeorge 1848 - 1897 b: 1848 Liverpool LAN Eng d: Aft. Oct 1897
............................. 4 James McGeorge 1849 - 1897 b: Abt. 1849 Liverpool LAN Eng ? d: Aft. Oct 1897
................... 3 Thomas McGeorge 1818 - 1886 b: 15 Oct 1818 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct d: 29 Nov 1886 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct
....................... +Jane Kirkpatrick - 1886 d: Bef. Nov 1886 m: Aft. 1881
................... 3 Jean McGeorge 1822 - 1847 b: Abt. 13 Jan 1822 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct d: 01 Jun 1847 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct
................... 3 Jane McGeorge 1824 - b: Abt. 1824
................... 3 Peter McGeorge 1826 - 1841 b: 17 Mar 1826 Springholm Urr, KKD Sct d: Aft. Mar 1841
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Hi Tom
I do believe that your Thomas is part of the family I call F26
If you would like to email me at
(*)
I can give you a 10 page of what I have on this family... wills, headstones etc.
You may find somehting I have missed
Kay
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KC.
Sending you a PM regarding Thomas McGeorge.
J.A.
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Hi folks, just been reading your postings re McGeorge. I have found a Mary McGeorge in the hoddom cemetery inscriptions:
james lewis who died in ecclefechan july 1763 agd 55 also mary mcgeorge his spouse who died 17 feb 1803 agd 82 also stewart lewis his son who did 1 jan 1759 agd 6.
also found 2 mcgeorge,s in ruthwell cemetery inscriptions: janet mcgeorge spouse of andrew wilson died 20 april 1833 agd 71.
also marion mcgeorge wife of john pagan who died at ruthwell 19 feb 1907 agd 83. ( this one is related to one of my relatives by marriage )
there,s a wee bit more text on the last 2 if anyones interested
AKC
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I ran across this posting today. I am very interested in the Marion McGeorge married to John Pagan. My grandparents were Pagan's and Marion McGeorge was my second great grandmother. I have very little information about her or John. I now know she was buried in the Ruthwell Cemetery thanks to you. What other info do you have for her and John if possible. I also had a researcher do my Scotland hertiage about 15 years ago and at that time he spelled McGeorge MacGeorge so now I am wondering which is correct. Can you help me.
Thanks, I am so glad I ran across this website today.
Tricia Partridge grand daughter of John and Ruth Pagan.
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Hi,
Marion McGeorge married John Pagan 24 Nov 1844 at Holywood, Dumfriesshire.
In the 1841 census she was living in Dumfries aged 14yrs with am Eliza Frazer 45 and Isabella Frazer I am not sure who the Frazers were. Maybe Marion was a servant?
By 1851 Marion was married and they were living in Dumfries. Marion was 25yrs and said she was born in Holywood. A Marion was born 1825 to a William and Jean Walker. Dates certainly fit.
Headstone
In memory of Hector, son of John Pagan, who died at Clarencefield 31th (sic) August in the 24 year of his age.
Also the above John Pagan who died at Clarencfield 19th April 1893 aged 75 years. Also Marion McGeorge wife of the above John Pagan who died at Ruthwell 19th February 1907 in her 83rd year.
I have quite a bit on Marion's parents and family, also a name of another researcher.
*** Do you have Marion's death certificate to confirm her parents?***
If you would like to email me off list at
(*)
for more information
cheers
Kay
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Hello, as a late comer, I feel a bit lost in this thread, as it is a new name for me. I have just come across a Mary McGeorge who was the mother of my GGgrandmother. Mary would be born 1760-80ish and is probably the child of a John Mcgeorge and Margaret Macklauchey, as this side of my family came from Irongray, and I have lds record for this. But I have nothing else. I am a bit stuck. Other names I am linking in this area are Wilson, Richardson and Martin. I would be grateful for any information.
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Hi,
I do not have any more on this family, the partish registers do not add any extra info unfortunately. There does not appear to be any headstones for this family either.
Can you give me ggrandmother's information so I can see if I am able to add anything
cheers
Kay
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Thanks Kay. My gggrandmother's information so far:
Margaret Paterson Richardson married Robert Wilson Blacksmith, Lochfoot Lochrutton. No marriage recorded as yet.
Margaret born about 1800, no Record of birth so far.
From Death Cert. died 12 July 1864 aged sixty-four. Father James Richardson, Farmer. Mother Mary McGeorge. From census records she is recorded as being born in Kilpatrick or Kirkpatrick, the names often being confused, but referring most often to Kirkpatck Durham. K. Irongray is of course bordering Lochrutton, so nothing can be assumed. She had seven children. Including my ggrandfather James. Yours, Willie
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Hi,
My McGeorges lived in Lochfoot too around 1780-1840 and also Kirkpatrick Durham, so I suspect they would know of your family!
Did Robert and Margaret Wilson have a daughter Mary born Kirkpatrick around 1829?
If so I might just have something
Kay
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Hi Kay. Thanks for your reply.
Robert and Margaret certainly had a daughter Mary baptised in Lochrutton 26th Feb 1829. I have census record noted for 1841 when Mary is recorded as 12 years old, but no place of birth. !851 she is married to Wm Geddes, Tailor, and living next door to her parents. Place of birth Lochrutton. If there are McGeorges living in Lochfoot and Kirkpatrick, I feel there is likely to be a connection. I have not been able to find a Mary born in Kirkpatrick at that time, do you have one? As you will know, women often returned to their parent's home for their first birth.
I am really struggling to find Margaret Paterson Richardson's birth. She seemed very keen to hold on to the Paterson name, as it appears in many records, even her death certificate, for which her husband Robert was informant.
Willie
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Hi Willie,
First, there is no headstones (MIs) for any Richardsons in Kirkpatrick Durham up to 1855.
James Richardson did not leave a will
As you already know, there is no marriage for Mary McGeorge and James Richardson on the IGI . As you will most probably know, civil registration started in 1855 in Scotland and before that we have to rely mainly on parish registers. The registers can be very sparse with large gaps in years. There was a tax levied on entries into the parish registers late 1700s so of course people did not have the events entered. The IGI is mostly for the Established Church of Scotland so if a person was at another church... Free Church, Catholic etc their names will most probably not be in the IGI.
I decided to look for a James Richardson and Mary in the 1841 census and found a couple living in Kirkpatrick Durham. They were the about the right age to be parents to Margaret Paterson Richardson. James 65 cattle dealer, , Mary 60, Janet 25, John 23. None of these names are in the IGI
in 1851 James was 78 born Twynholm, Mary 75 born Parton AND Mary Wilson 22 visitor, born Lochrutton.
Could this be Mary Wilson visiting her grandparents?
I suspect that both James and Mary died before 1855 so no death certificate. I do have about 5 pages of Kirkpatrick Durham deaths printed out. Alas they are about 15yrs old and faded dreadfully. I will go through them and see if I can work out any Richardson names.
The only way I can see to prove all this is to look for their son John's death (born about 1818) to see if his parents names were James Richardson and Mary McGeorge
I could not find a birth for Mary McGeorge in Parton c1776. I will keep looking
However after all that, I notice that you said that Mary was living next to her parents as the wife of Geddes in 1851, so maybe all that above is incorrect.!!
Oh the joys of genealogy, one step forward and two back, mind you if it was so easy, it wouldn't be a challenge?
cheers
Kay
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Hi Kay. Thank you for going to all that trouble. I am very grateful.
You will be pleased to know that you are very likely correct. On checking carefully through my notes and records I found that there were two Marys born in Lochrutton in 1829. They are cousins.
From lds
No 1.
MARY WILSON
Christening: 26 FEB 1829 Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: ROBERT WILSON
No 2
MARY DAVIDSON
Christening: 15 OCT 1829 Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
- Father: WILLIAM DAVIDSON Family
Mother: JANET WILSON
Robert Wilson (myGGgrandfather) and Janet Wilson were both children of William, Blacksmith of Lochfoot (my GGGgrandfather)
By checking the date of the 1851 census, we can see that the 22 year old Mary would be Robert’s daughter, and the 21 year old would be her cousin, Mary Davidson, (now Geddes.) It was my mistake, not checking that out originally.
At that point, I was not aware of the Mary being in Kirkpatrick Durham. I was only aware that Mary Geddes was the Grand daughter of William.
It does get confusing, and at times frustrating, but the achievement is all the better for that, as you suggest.
I had a very similar situation arose in following my wife’s family. A grand daughter on holiday gave a perfect link to grandparents.
I am near to adding that generation back, I think.
There is a James Richerson born in Twynholme in 1773, so that gives another possible stage to search.
Again, thanks, and if you can find anything in your deaths list, that would be terrific. I will go on here with my search. Willie
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Hi Willie,
Pleased to be of help. it certainly gets confusing when each generation has the same surnames..John, Mary etc. Having said that it does help when I am researching the McGeorge name as usually Walter belongs to about only 3 families, Samuel (including mine) in about 4 and so on. It helps to identify the families quite quickly
I will be in touch if I find anything
cheers
Kay
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Hello, I've found the McGeorge information fascinating but confusing ! There seem to have been (at least)2 Elizabeth Mcgeorges in Urr at same time.One was daughter of Thomas & Jean Nicholson (IGI, C118842)As far as I can see, she married John Bell, Miller,in Nov 1831. The other(much mentoned) married James Murrey in March 1832 .
John Bell the miller (1792-1864) died at Springholm & was remembered on MI in Crossmichael (with parents), and his wife Elizabeth McGeorge (1807-1893) died in Wigan, having lived with her single son William(a draper) and then daughter(census). Meanwhile, back in Urr, John McGeorge (1797-1853) died Springholm & is remembered with his wife Agnes Seaton(d New Abbey) and children, incl,Robert Seaton McGeorge & John Seaton McG-drapers in Preston.I have yet to find out whether John & Elizabeth were siblings.
My gggm Jane Toolan, nee Bell, b Crossmichael c1829, died Pendlebury Lancs 1884,may have been John's daughter.She called one of her sons 'James seaton T'' & another William Bell Barnes T.' Barnes ' was husband of Wilhelmina, definite daugher of John the miller( m certs), also born Crossmichael who eventually lived next door to Jane in Pendlebury. But both Willie and my Jane were born before John's marriage with Elizabeth McGeorge. John, whilst still at Crossmichael Mill had a son John (b 1820) with Agnes Brolochan, (word 'lawful' ommitted from OPR) but she later (late1830s)became 2nd Mrs Rafferty in Crossmichael.
I obviously need to see Kirk Sessions, but can't visit Scotland. I've looked at original (incomplete)registers at my local LDS Family His. Centre. Any advice, please, re access to this and other types of record?. And any knowledge of Springholm and also Auchenreoch Miln ? I can find former on OS map, but not the mill. Both feature continuously in the records I've found. Thanks !
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My husband is a direct descendant of John McGeorge and Jean Baxter, parents of an Elizabeth McGeorge born 1807 Springholm, Urr. John and Jean had at least two children before they were married, Elizabeth being one of them, the marriage taking place abt. 1816 in Springholm, I've never found an actual record of it, but have seen the Kirk Session records about Elizabeth which read as follows:
"Monday May 4th 1807, Baptized at Grange of Urr, a child christened Elizabeth to Jean Baxter in Miln of Auchenreoch. The father, John McGeorge, in the same place (Auchenreoch) had satisfied the Church, for the crime of fornication with the above-mentioned woman, but refused to present the child, so that this duty fell on its mother."
John McGeorge was the son of a Peter McGeorge about whom I know nothing, and was always in trouble with the Kirk elders over girls!! As his father was Peter McGeorge, he was not brother to your Elizabeth. As you know, my Elizabeth McGeorge married James Murray March 1832 Haugh of Urr, Kirkudbright, he was about 40 years older than her and had been married before. They had six children before James died in 1844, Elizabeth died in 1891 in Springholm. One of their sons, James Murray born 1840, went to London and became a draper and married Agnes Catherine Irving there, she was born 1836 in Caerlaverock, Dumfries, but whether they knew each other before going to London is not known. James and Agnes took their family to Austalia in 1877.
I can look at both the Kirk Session records 1806-1847 and the Urr parish records, but it might not be until next week.
Hope this has helped with one of the Elizabeth McGeorges!
Anne
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Very many thanks, Anne. It all makes very interesting reading. I didn't mention , but you may already know, that the John McGeorge who married Agnes Seaton has a memorial (202) in Urr next to your John McGeorge(204) who married Jane Baxter. With Jane Baxter living to age of 101 & 8months, no doubt she had some tales to tell.
Regards S
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Yes, I do know about the MIs as I have access to a book which has transcripts of all the MIs in Urr. If you want anyone looked up just let me know. I also have access to books with MI transcripts for places around Urr. When I first found out that Jean Baxter lived to such an age I thought it was a mistake! Elizabeth McGeorge never married again after James Murray died, so she was a long time a widow. One of her brothers, William, also came to Australia in the 1850s and I have his death certificate from New South Wales. I wonder if that influenced James Murray to follow his uncle and take the trip to Oz?
Cheers,
Anne
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Hi Jeansgirl and Anne,
This is what I have on Thomas McGeorge and Jean Nicholson
Descendants of Thomas McGeorge
Generation No. 1
1. THOMAS1 MCGEORGE was born Abt. 1769 in Scotland, and died 27 Nov 1832 in Mill Hall, Urr KKD Sct1. He married JANE NICHOLSON. She was born Abt. 1779 in Scotland, and died 26 May 1849 in Mill Hall, Urr KKD Sct1.
Notes for THOMAS MCGEORGE:
Kirkpatrick Durham MI (as transcribed in the booklet)
imo Thomas McGeorge, d Mill Hall 27.11.1832, 63
w Jane Nicholson d Mill Hall 26.5.1849, 70
s Wm d Springholm 14.11.1863 55
More About THOMAS MCGEORGE:
Burial: Nov 1832, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct
Family: 13
Occupation: farmer
Residence: Mill Hall, Urr
More About JANE NICHOLSON:
Burial: May 1849, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct
Family: 13
Children of THOMAS MCGEORGE and JANE NICHOLSON are:
i. MARY2 MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 25 Mar 1803, Irongray, KKD, Sct2.
More About MARY MCGEORGE:
Family: 13
ii. WILLIAM MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 28 Aug 1804, Irongray, KKD, Sct2; d. 14 Nov 1862, Springholm, Urr, KKD, Sct3.
Notes for WILLIAM MCGEORGE:
Kirkpatrick Durham MI (as transcribed in the booklet)
imo Thomas McGeorge, d Mill Hall 27.11.1832, 63
w Jane Nicholson d Mill Hall 26.5.1849, 70
s Wm d Springholm 14.11.1863 55
1841 census
Urr Mill Hall
William McGeorge 30 farmer
Jean Nicholson 60
1851 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell 51
Elizabeth 45 Urr
William McGeorge 45 bil ag lab Irongray
(Elisa Bell 43
Elisa Bell 18
James C Bell 16
John Bell 51
John M C Bell 10
Mary Bell 12
Thomas Bell 14
William Bell 7
William McGeorge 45 ?
1861 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell, HM 68 miller, Eng
Elizabeth 54 Urr
and family
William McGeorge bil 56U Irongray
Death certificate
Urr
14 Nov 1862
William McGeorge, 57yrs, house proprieter, single, at Springholm
parents: Thomas McGeorge, small farmer & dec & Jane Nicholson
cause: chronic bronchitis
informant: Elizabeth Bell, sister and sick nurse
More About WILLIAM MCGEORGE:
Burial: Nov 1862, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct4
Family: 13
Occupation: ag lab
Residence: Urr KKD Sct
iii. ELIZABETH MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 24 Aug 1807, Urr, KKD, Sct5; d. 06 Apr 1893, Wigan, LAN, Eng6; m. JOHN BELL, 1832, Urr, KKD, Sct; b. Abt. 1792, England7; d. 08 Jan 18648.
Notes for ELIZABETH MCGEORGE:
Urr Parish register
Scandals done away
Monday 24th August 1807
Bp to Thomas McGeorge and Jean Nicholson in Auchenreoch, a daughter christened Elizabeth and then presented the child for baptism, the father being under church... Elizabeth born Sunday 9 August 1807
Marriages
1832
John Bell and William McGeorge reperesenting his daughter Elizabeth McGeorge
John Bell and Elizabeth McGeorge
1841
Elizabeth Bell
Age: 34
Born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Springholm
Urr
Kirkcudbrightshire
Elizabeth Bell 34
Elizabeth Bell 9
James Bell 7
John Bell 44
John Bell 1
Mary Bell 75
Mary Bell 3
Thomas Bell 5
Margaret Concha 15
Agnes Ferguson 15
1851 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell 51
Elizabeth 45 Urr
William McGeorge bil ag lab Irongray
1861 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell, HM 68 miller, Eng
Elizabeth 54 Urr
and family
William McGeorge bil 56U Irongray
Crossmichael MIs (as transcibed by the Scottish Society )
#56 next to 40
Jas Bell d Auchenreoch Miln 10.3.1833, 76,
da Eliz d Crossmichael Miln 19.12.1815, 27
Prepare for death, make no delay, You see how youth is call'd away
w Mary Pearson d Auchenreaoch Miln 20.11.1841 78, gs
Jas Concar 4.6.1823 (fa Samuel Conchar, mason)
John Bell 8.1.1864 72
w Eliz McGeorge d Wigan 6.4.1893 86
#40
John Conchar d Over Arkland 19.12.1892 80,
w Janet Hyslop d Burnside Crossmichael 10.5.1887 72
More About ELIZABETH MCGEORGE:
Family: 13
More About JOHN BELL:
Family: 13
Endnotes
1. MI.
2. OPR.
3. cert.
4. MI.
5. OPR.
6. MI.
7. census.
8. MI.
cheers
Kay
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I tried to paste this but it was too big. If you would like to email me at (*)
I can send it to you.
just trying to work out your family
Where did your gggm Jane Tollan nee Bell get married and to whom?
How do you know Wilhemina was Jane's sister. When and to whom did she marry.
How did you connect Jane with John Bell and Elizabeth McGeorge
It is so annoying that the English death certs don't have parents mentioned. Pity that Elizabeth did not die in Scotland. There does not seem to be a death notice in the Dumfries newspapers
It certainly does seem if those the families are all connected as Jane did call her sons with the Christian including Seaton and Bell
cheers
Kay
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Thank you both, Anne & Kay. I've got to go out in a short while, so I'll just stick to the Wilhelmina question for now. The 41 census had one Jane bell of right age in Crossmichael (my Jane gave this as birthplace in 51,61 &71) 3 other young adults, Robert,John & Wilhelmina (1826), also working away from home (separately)in Crossmichael.Siblings?
1851. Willie Bell,(1826)living Balmaghie with McMegn family, Dairymaid b Crossmichael.(couldn't find her for long time.Eventually'' Willie+1826+Scotland ''flushed her out)
1850 OPR Kirkbean Thomas Toolin (many different spellings!)of this parish & Jane Bell of Castle Douglas proclaimed for 3rd and last time (June 30) Actually married ''July 5th 1851'' (sic. mistake ? ) 1850 in Castle Douglas (Info in birth certs of children 1868,1870)
1850 John Tollin son of Thomas Tollin & Jane Bell Castle Douglas b 5/12, bap 11/12 (OPR Kelton)
1851 Jane Towland(head) living Castle Douglas with John 4 mths. No sign of Thomas.b ?? of Kirkend, Crossmichael
1855(9/12) Willy Bell m John Barnes-both of full age. Barton upon Irwell, Parish church of Eccles. John Widower, Willy spinster, both living PendleburyWillie's father, John Bell, Miller
1861 Pendlebury/Eccles. John 41, Wilhelmina 38 James 1? John 2 b Pendlebury
1864 Nov . Toolans still living Scotland (Campsie) In Nov 2nd child William (b 53) died from lacerated arm (he worked in printworks) and 7th child born, within days. Child named William Bell Barnes Toolan
1865 Willie Barnes m Robert Worsley (widow & batchelor) He was drayman, she publican. Willie's father ''John Bell, Miller) St John's Church
1871Willie & Robert living in Bolton Rd, Pendlebury with her 2 sons(& his niece)
1881.Willie & Robert living 88 North Road, Pendlebury.Toolans living 2 doors away.
I do not know for sure that Willie is Jane's sister. Evidence circumstantial ! Robert(41 Crossmichael ) one of the 4 young adults turned out to be son of William & Jane (nee Johnstone), and as they were of an age to have kids flown the nest, they were my prime candidates for some time. Willie & Jane could also be life long friends ??
Connection John Bell the Miller & Elizabeth McGeorge ?? MI & census. 'My ' Jane in 41 was living with Margaret Brolochan who was mother of Agnes. John Bell of Crossmichael Miln & Agnes had baby John 1820 (OpR) John's sister(MI) died at Crossmichael Miln, in 1815, so presumably their address before Potterland.
Must go.
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I have just across this on the Gould Book shop web site (Adelaide, Australia)
The Bell Family in Dumfreisshire
Our Price: AU$34.50
Sale Price: AU$22.50
You Save AU$12.00!
This work is an extremely thorough study of the Bell family, and works through branch by branch, parish by parish. In all the author discusses over 29 different branches of the family ...
http://www.gould.com.au/
You maybe able to get it closer to where you live
Kay
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Kelton headstone
I am not sure if this helps or hinders!
Kay
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Thankyou Kay for both those points. I do have Vols 1 (since yesterday) ,2,3 and 5 of MIs, but I'd rather be told than miss out . I've also got Wm Rafferty's will, but it doesn't shed any light on any possible stepchildren, such as Willy, Jane. As William's first wife died in 1837,and Agnes appears with him in 1841, Agnes too had time to have other children, after the 1820 baby (don't know what happened to him) (Or a 3rd woman, neither Agnes nor Elizabeth McG ? ) And that would mean Jane was living with her grandmother in 41. But no records for this either. And it would suggest a failed relationship (in small community) or divorce, which seems hardly likely in those times. Jane's children were called Margaret Grant, Janet, Agnes Jane & Annie. No ''Elizabeth'' (but I need to check infant deaths between censuses)
Have you come across the accounts which show rent owing/jobs/repairs at Potterland Mill, concerning John Bell Miller( wife Elizabeth McGeorge) in 1850 ?
Can't lay my hand on the papers right this second.!
Really grateful for this input. Cheers.
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I've finally found those papers. John Bell, wife of the other Elizabeth McGeorge of Urr, appears in ''Account of Charge & Discharge:James Lidderdale, Writer, Castle Douglas with Mr Maxwell of Orchardton''. (http://www.buittle.org.uk) The accounts mention John Bell, tenant of Potterland Mill several times. Years mentioned, 1855,1856.
S.
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Hi all,
Looking to trace back a McGeorge line as far as possible. Really hoping to find out under which circumstances my ancestors came to Australia.
Here's what I have so far
Me: Brett Christopher McGeorge (*22.04.1989 in VIC Australia)
My father: David Steuart McGeorge (*15.02.1958 in NSW Australia)
David's father: Colin John Baxter McGeorge (*15.03.1916 in Mosman, NSW)
Colin's father: Percy William James McGeorge (*??.??.?? in ???)
Percy's father: James XXX McGeorge (*??.??.?? in Dumfries, Scotland)
Percy's mother: Ada Ann Baxter (*1861 in VIC Australia)
Any information you might be able to add would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi Brett
Welcome to RootsChat :)
If you go to www.familysearch.org and use the Pedigree Resource File link on the left this will take you through the relevant search screen. Put in full father's name (james McGregor) and mother's name (Ada Baxter) and then search.
Percival William Thomas McGEORGE's birth is given in 1883 in Fitzroy Victoria. Other entries also included for possible siblings to Percy.
These pedigree files are submitted entries but hopefully gives you something to work from to try and verify :)
Monica
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The submitter of the Pedigree file also shows here http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=:1793136&id=I3085
You could try contacting him on his email which shows on there and see if it is still active :)
To make headway in Scotland on possible roots for James McGregor, you are going to need to try and find his marriage (circa 1881 from the links showing) or his death certs to establish his age and names of parents back in Scotland.
You could also try posting on the Australian board here on RC for help on resources there www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,165.0.html
Monica
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Hello Brett,
My husband has the McGeorge family in his line, and also the Baxter name. That part comes from a John McGeorge who married a Jean Baxter in Urr, Kirkcudbright, Scotland way back in the early 1800s. The McGeorge name was to be found still being used as a middle name as late as the 1890s. I wonder what the connection is with the Baxters? My husband's line of descent is through an Elizabeth McGeorge born to John McGeorge and Jean Baxter in Urr, Kirkcudbright in 1807. It is also interesting that one of Elizabeth's brothers, William McGeorge born 1816 in Urr, went to Liverpool in England and married there, had two children and they then all migrated to NSW around 1853. William McGeorge died in NSW in 1897, so I wonder if there is a connection? By the way, we also live in Victoria!
Anne
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Hi Brett,
I have a little bit on your family. However as recently mentioned you will need to get James and Ada's marriage certificate to hopefully get James's parents.
Do you know when and where he died?
Once you are back to Scotland I should be able more.
If you want to contact me at
(*) I can send you what I have
cheers
Kay
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Thomas McGeorge married Jane Blacklock. His father was William McGeorge (born 1796, Hal of Spots, Parish of Urr, Dumfries) and he married Mary Clark. William's brother married a Clark sister, also.
Thomas McGeorge was my grandfather's grandfather and immigrated to Fishing River, Missouri sometime around 1880.
Who was William's brother and who was his father? Does anyone have any informtion on this line?
Many thanks, J
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Hi J
I do have more information on this family. Unfortunately it seems as though I cannot copy the 6 pages into this.
If you would like to email me at (*)
Kay
Perth
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Hi Wendy,
I am researching the Buchanan family and found Clara McGeorge married John Buchanan circa 1899. Clara was a daughter of Walter McGeorge and Annie McDonald (both buried at Pyalong cemetery. Do you have any information on John Buchanan?
Regards
Steve