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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: afossil on Sunday 08 March 09 19:26 GMT (UK)
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I have the 1891 census for George Allan in Stockton.
RG12 4050 95 4
George Allan 80? Retired Blacksmith b Ireland
Mary Jane wife 62 b Newcastle
Fanny E Tate mar dau 40 b Newcastle
George H Allan son 26 Hammer Driver b Stockton
I cannot find them in any earlier census. George died in 1895 age 61 which does not quite fit with the census. I can find the son in 1901 with wife Elizabeth.
Can anyone find the family in an earlier census or a marriage for George and Mary Jane? I can't find Fanny's birth but George Henry is on freeBMD in Oct 1864
Thanks
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Hello afossil
Welcome to Rootschat :)
You can view the 1881 census free here http://www.rootschat.com/links/05rr/ and George is there still in Stockton aged 70 with wife Mary Ann and son George RG11/4897 fol.53 p.28
Barbara
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Are you sure you have the right death for him? The 1891 has 3 entries in Durham for a George Allan born in the 1830's
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George died in 1895 age 61 which does not quite fit with the census
Neither George was born in the 1830s
If you mean George junior, he was born 1865 so it doesn't fit at all.
It's more likely to be this one as he was living in Middlesbrough in 1901:
Jun 1922 Middlesbro' 9d 707 ALLAN George H aged 57 (so born c 1865)
There's a big gap in age between George Henry and Fanny, so she's possibly from an earlier marriage. If you were to get George's birth cert it should give his mother's maiden name which would make it easier to find her marriage.
Barbara
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Just in case you don't have young George's marriage
Dec 1895 Guisbro' 9d 971
ALLAN George Henry HINCHLEY Elizabeth
I have found the Allan family in 1871, living at the same address as in 1881, but big discrepancies in age and birthplace, 2 other sons but no young George :-\
1871 RG10 Piece 4904 Folio 17 Page 27
27 Donald Street, Stockton
George ALLEN head m 44 Blacksmith Walker Northumberland
Mary Jane ALLEN wife m 38 Newcastle "
John MAENS son unm 21 Striker at Works Newcastle
Robert MAENS son " 16 " " "
John Maines was listed as a boarder in the 1881 census!
This raises a lot more questions
Barbara
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George died in 1895 age 61
The George who died in Stockton in 1895 was George Allen not Allan. Do you have a copy of the death cert to confirm it was the right death
Neither George was born in the 1830s
The 1891 has 2 entries for George Allan's living in Durham. One b 1832 and living in Wingate and the other b 1834 living in Winlaton. Although I accept that neither of these locations is included in the Stockton registration district, the age of the George who died in 1895 was more consistent with those birthyears. George Allan would have been 84/85 in 1895
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Hi Carole,
Sorry if I wasn't clear - I meant that neither George on the census found so far was born in the 1830s, George H was b. abt 1865 and George senior b. anywhere from 1811 (on 1881 census) to 1827 (on that last 1871 census I found), so I didn't think any of these death registrations would be theirs
Barbara :)
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Hi and thanks for the replies. I have the death certificate and I know that this George is connected to my family as I have an old notebook which says says G Allen died 28th July 1895. That is the only reason I know he is a family member. (Maybe I have picked up on the wrong one in the census? The age on that was hard to read and could have been 50) He is a blacksmith and the informant is wife Mary Jane. Their address is 1 Clarence St Stockton.
I am actually doing some lateral thinking in trying to trace my gt grandmother Margaret Allen. Supposedly born in Walker, Northumberland in c 1842 so that 1871 entry for George looks good. She married Henry Brown in 1868 in Tynemouth. I have that certificate and her father is George Allen, Blacksmith. The notebook - which is an insurance or savings one from the look of the entries is in the names of Mr David Allen and Mrs Margaret Brown. I was hoping that David and George were her brothers and I might find more about her that way.
Cheers
afossil
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(Maybe I have picked up on the wrong one in the census? The age on that was hard to read and could have been 50)
The 1891 image shows a definite 80 and that age is confirmed by his 1881 age of 70
You also appear to be searching for the more conventional spelling of this surname which is ALLEN not ALLAN
If Margaret was b 1842 - have you checked freebmd for a possible birth?
Have you checked the 1851 census which is nearer her birthdate than 1871 and more likely to find her with her parents/siblings
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Thanks for the input. There is a possible 1851 census entry in Walker HO107 2411 106 5 but that says she was born in Ireland! The names do fit in though.
George Allan 38 Blacksmith
Helen wi 35
Eliza dau 13
Margret 11
David 9
Edward 7 all born Ireland
Matilda 8 months b Walker
I have spent hours at the FRC trawling through the books and could not find a birth in Tynemouth district which I believe covered Walker at that time. If she was born in Ireland that might explain it!
The spelling does vary and I have always looked for both.
Thanks for the help
afossil
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Barbara - thanks for that 1871 entry. If it is the same family as 1851 then it looks as if wife number one died and George remarried. I will check that out. Age difference and place of birth is odd though.
afossil
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Plenty of mistakes made on census with ages and birthplaces, the enumerator could only write what he was told I suppose. :-\
Barbara
:)
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I have now found a marriage for George Allen where one of the possible brides is Mary Jane Main March 1868 Stockton 10a 88 I might have to take a chance and send for that.
Can't find young George Henry in 1871 though.
afossil
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If you look on http://www.middlesbrough-indexes.co.uk/search.php you'll see the bride is Mary Jane Main
Stockton now has its own website but not all records are uploaded yet, however you can contact Stockton register office on 01642 527720 or e-mail them to check for any known details before ordering the certificate
http://www.stocktonroots.co.uk/contact.aspx
The ref no. from Middlesbrough-indexes refers to Holy Trinity Church, Stockton, according to my list.
Hope this helps,
Barbara
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Thanks that is helpful.
afossil
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Now got the marriage certificate from 1868. George is a widower age 44 and his father is David Allen (Farmer) Mary Jane Mains is 36 a widow father David Martin/Master? (Miller). This puts George's birth at c1824.
afossil
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This looks like Mary Jane's 1st marriage:
Jun 1843 Castle Ward 25 245
MAINS Robert MARTIN Mary Jane
Barbara
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Thanks Barbara. Sorry not to reply before. Did not realise you had replied.
afossil
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Realize I am a couple of years behind with this one, but - my MAINS family were the ones that your George ALLEN married into. Did you by any chance come across any additional MAINS info in your research?
I have what you have already posted, the only commment I can make is that Fanny ALLEN as in 1891 census is actually Fanny (Frances) TATE on the original. She was Fanny MAINS, Mary Jane's dau from 1st marr.
Mary Jane was listed as a widow on her marr to George ALLEN, do you know any different? I THINK her 1st husband may have actually remarried rather than died!
Son Geo still in Middlesborough 1911.
You may already have all this info -just in case not!
Col
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Hi Colmain,
I can't help with Mains I'm afraid as I did not attempt to trace them. Interesting if she was not a widow.
Best wishes
afossil
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Hi - I would be keen to hear anything you had found out about this line.
From my research my great great grandfather was David Allen born 1846 in Ireland and Margaret Allens younger brother so we are distant relations. I had traced back David to his father George the blacksmith and how he was born in Ireland, married and had children then moved to the north east of england and married again with more children.
Am particularly keen to trace the Allen line back into Ireland
Thanks
Marcus Allen
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Hi Marcus - afraid I can't be of much help on the ALLEN line, haven't done any research there. All i have is the 1871-1911 census info which you obviously already have. And of course the marriage details of George & my Mary Jane MAINS. Shall let you know if I come across anything different!
Best wishes, Col
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Hi Marcus,
How nice to find a relative. Margaret and David must have been quite close to have shared an insurance book.
If you send me a personal message with your email address I can probably scan some of the details from it to send you. Click on the green scroll under the user name.
I have not managed to get any further on this line - indeed it has taken me over 20 years to get this far so it is slow progress!
afossil
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Thanks for the message. I will sort out my papers over the weekend and let you have the information. Good to make contact.
afossil
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I realise these posts were a few years ago, I have been trying to find information on my 2nd Great Grandmother Margaret Allen born 1844 (according to census info and marriage cert) Father George Allen born Ireland 1811 - though several census give different dates and places. Margaret Married Henry Brown in Tynemouth. I can find no trace of Margaret until her marriage on any census so she too may have been born in Ireland.
I thought Fanny Allen was her sister and then found that she was born Fanny Mains, father Robert, mother Mary Jane Martin. I even started to wonder if Margaret Allen was actually Margaret Mains and found a birth close in date but it seems the child died.
I wondered if anyone had got any further in their research and if you would share any info/docs suggestions you have. As I said I realise it's a few years ago but I don't think this family history bug ever goes away!!
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Hi 100Bears and welcome to rootschat,
Henry Brown is one of my ancestors too. I have never found a birth for Margaret though the family lived in Walker as far as I know.
Their son Henry, born 1870, and Mary Annie Rowan were my grandparents.
How do you fit in?
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Hi
Thanks for your reply, Margaret Allen is my 2nd Great Grandmother, I also descend from Henry and Mary Annie Rowan - so we are related.
I spent a lot of time trying to find Margaret's birth with no luck, following the threads from roots chat several years ago I now think she was born in Ireland. Unfortunately with no idea where in Ireland its going to be difficult.
I am just starting to look at the Brown/Rowan side in a little more detail. I was passed a very basic tree from some years ago by a family member but it says Mary Annie Rowan's mother was a Mary Ann Duffy? I looked at it a couple of years ago and I am not so sure I agree - I wondered if you had any further info.
Thanks again for the reply, nice to make contact with a family member.
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Hi,
I have sent you a personal message.
I think Mary Annie's parents were Archibald Rowan and Mary Ann McCullough. They had at least 9 children. All born in Ireland.
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For the benefit of anyone else researching this line Mary Anne McCullough was born c1837 and her father was Thomas, a labourer according to the marriage certificate I have for her and Archibald Rowan. They were married at the Presbyterian Church in Tullyallen, parish of Loughgilly, Co Armagh. July 20 1854. Archibald's father was Andrew, occupation Weaver, as was Archibald.
According to Mary Anne Rowan's birth certificate (5th may 1874) she was born at Cullies, Cootehill, Co Cavan. Father a flax scutcher and mother Mary Anne formerly Duffy. The latter is not correct - either a mistake in the register or copied wrongly when I ordered the certificate back in 1988.
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Update - The marriage certificate for George Allen to Mary Jane Mains in 1868 gives his age as 44. However, it now seems obvious that he lied and was much older. His death aged 61 in 1895 is also very suspect as that does not fit with census records which make him over 80. Maybe Mary Jane never knew his true age?
His father is shown as David Allen, farmer or maybe farrier?, on the certificate.