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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Templar75 on Sunday 08 March 09 23:48 GMT (UK)
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I have just completed the list of headstones and inscriptions at Temple Village burial ground in Midlothian Scotland.
I have also completed the burials from the 1800 - 1996 burial register on the site, I have photos of all the headstones though some are lying on their fronts around 7 of them. anyone who wants information or photo just get in touch.
I hope to start on the Old Parish Registers soon.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie I am new to this site and just read your message. Do you have any CORNWALL's or CLELLANDS in your records ? If you do I would dearly love to know them also any photo's would be like all my christmasses come at once ;D
Sandra CORNWALL
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Hi Sandra,
I hope this will help you in your family quest.
Stobbs village is in Midlothian but was once known as Edinburghshire, Stobbs had the first Gunpowder Mill in Scotland, the name Stobbs means Stopping Place.
You will be able to zoom in on the photo of the tombstone and read most of what is on it, the other photo shows the tombstone to the right of the small wall next to the stone that has fallen.
The first is the inscription from the tombstone which is situated at ( Lair 115 ).
FIRST
Erected by Thomas Cornwall in memory of his Father Richard Cornwall who died 17th February 1826, also his daughter Mary who died 29th December ---- aged 3 years. His son Thomas died 26th June 1810 aged 11 years. His daughter Mary who died 1st August 1856 aged 19 years. Also Mary Knight his Mother died February 15th 1858 aged 86 years, also Thomas Cornwall who died 23rd September 1863 aged 63 years.
The ones below are from the Temple burial book ( 1888-1996 ).
SECOND
Agnes Cornwall died at 47 years at Stobbs Mills on the 6th January 1896 ( Lair 49 ) there is a stone lying on its front with trees growing arond it where they are buried, I am not allowed to lift it.
THIRD
John Cornwall in 1844 possibly at Stobbs ( No other details ).
John Cornwall died at Stobbs Mills on the 18th February 1901.
Janet Cornwall died aged 79 years at Powder Mills Cottages Stobbs on the 22nd July 1912.
Richard Cornwall died aged 60 years at Gowkshill, Cockpen ,Midlothian on the 20th September 1918.
( The above are buried in Lair 62 there is no stone )
FOURTH
Richard Cornwall died at Muirs Park Newbattle Dalkeith ( No date ).
Janet Cornwall died at Dalkeith, possibly the same place as Richard ( No date ).
( Both are buried in Lair 115 same one as first entry )
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thank you for the headstone photograph of the Cornwall family in Temple Kirkyard. (You previously sent one of my Ramage ancestors). My 4th G Grandparents Richard Cornwall b. 1769 West Molesey, Surrey, married to Mary Knight of Middlesex came to Scotland in the late 1790's to work at the Gunpowder factory - he was killed in an explosion at the factory on 17th February 1825. His son Thomas Cornwall b.1800 Stobmills, my 3rd G Grandfather, died in 1863 from an injured spleen, and his son Richard Cornwall b. 1826 at Stobmills, my 2nd G Grandfather, died in 1893 after being struck by a locomotive on the viaduct bridge while working on the line. All three ancestors died a horrible death.
Inserting the story below.
Regards,
Maggie
Dreadful Explosion.
A Full and Particular Account of that Dreadful
Explosion of Gunpowder, at Stobbs Mills, on
Thursday last the 17th February, 1825, at a few
minutes past Eight in the moratng, by which two
Men and a Horse lost their lives, and several others
were severely injured.
About ten minutes after eight yesterday morning the inhabitants
of the odjacent villages of Stobbs and Gore Bridge, and neighbour-
hood, were thrown into great alarm, in consequence of an explosi-
son of gunpowder, which tock place at one of the branches of the
extensive manufactory which Messrs. Hitchener and Hunter have
for many years carried on at Stabbsmills. The accident is one of
such a nature as precludes all possibility of ascertaining how it
originated, which, of course, must, must ever remain matter of con.
jecture ; all that is known is, that a man named Walter Thomson
had gone with a cart loaded with powder from one of the mills to.
the charge-house, a kind of temporary store house in which the
powder is kept, until there is room in the stove or drying house to
receive it, and nearly adjoins the later, and this person must have
been in the act of unloading the cart at the moment the explosion
accurred. Fortunately, however, the sufferers have been few, ts it
is ascertained that Thomson ( the carter ) and an old man named
Richard Cornwall employed at the stove, were the only individuals
who lost their "lives ; their bodies were blown to atoms, and but
small portions of them have been picked up, at great distances from
each other, and in such a condition as rendered it impossible to dis-
tinguish to which of the two they belonged ; the head and neck of
one was reoonised from the neckloth about it.
The horse was thrown a considerable distancet and some of the
barrels of powder which had been placed on the cart were blown in
the air, and exploded over the heads of the ploughmen in the fields
The materials of the stove house and charge house, which are both
raised to the foundation, are lying in directions, extending to a eir-
cumferance of at least half a mile, covering the fields like flocks of
birds. So great was the concussion that in the villages scarcely a
window has escaped its ravages ; that of Stobbsmills, although nea-
rest the scene of the explosion, has suffered least, but in Gore Bridde
many houses have not a whole pane left, and the roofs present a
most picturesque appearance ; some entirely unroofed on one side,
and from most of the others the tiles are moved down so as some-
what to resemble a sieve. The meeting-house at Gore Bridge has
not only suffered in glass, but the astrigals of several of the win-
dows have gone alone with the more fragile materials: even at the
farm house of Newhouses at leasl three quarters of a mile from the
mills, many of the panes were broken and the doors of some of the
houses were burst open. We haxe heard too that the glass in the
hot-houses at Vogrie, three miles distant were broken, and part of
the ceiling of the house of Fountainhall was thrown down. The
concussion was quite terrific in Dalkeith, four miles distant, and af-
fected the buildings so much as to prevent the doors from shutting
and in Ormiston, Tranent, and Musselburgh, it was distinctly felt.
Here, in Edinburgh, fully nine miles from the mills, the two explo-
sions were very generally heard, but supposed by many to be blasts
in the neighbourhing quarries, or a salut from a vessel in the Frith.
The quantity of powder supposed to hare exploded is calcnlated
at about six tons weight, forty barrels were in the store, forty or
fifty in the charge house, and ten on the cart. The two unfortu-
nate men who were killed had both families.
Printed for Robert M'Millan,—PRICE ONE PENNY.
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Well Archie what can I say other than you are a STAR !!!! ;D
Thank you so much for the info and and the photo's are absolutely BRILLIANT !!!! I could really imagine myself and my dad sitting on that bench feelin that we were home. Unfortunately he is miles away in Australia so the photo's will mean so much to him. Once again many many thanks
Sandra
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Hi Archie,
You've made a very generous offer, as it must already have taken you some considerable time to put this information together.
I wonder if you could check whether there are any Gilchrists mentioned? I think a headstone is a long shot, but I think they were in and around the area from the early 1850s until about 1900.
Best wishes
Rockford
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Thank you Sandra I am only to happy to help, I hope your dad is satisfied with the outcome, please let me know of his reaction.
The story is fantastic thanks for sending it, I will put it on file, there was another Powder Mill towards Borthwick, about a half mile from a hamlet called Catcun,the hamlet is still there, anyway, the Powder Mill was only open about a Month when the whole lot went up in the air, they never rebuilt it, I don't know if it was part of Stobbs or not.
Thank you also for the details on your Cornwall family, I wondered about Mary Knight and now I know, this I will also keep on file if you don't mind that is. Fantastic information, I feel like I know them, it sounds strange but when I visit the area I always say hello to them all, I feel they are watching me in spirit.
I have sent two photos, one is of a memorial to Charles Hitchener who owned the Powder Mill, the memorial was put up by his sister-law, she was refused putting it up at Dalkeith cemetery where he is buried. The story goes that his wife had died, later on he may have had a relationship with the sister-law and that is why it was refused, it was frowned uppon to do this in those days, " Not Proper ".
Charles Hitchiner was also English, so there is a good chance that the Cornwall's came up with him to start the Powder Mill.
The other is from Google to show you roughly the area the Mill was in, I hope this photo is allowed, if not I appologise in advance to the webmaster.
I will send another of the plan of Temple burial ground and place a big " X " where they are buried,
again I think your dad will be happy knowing exactly where they lay.
Sorry to say there are no Clellands buried at Temple.
Take care.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi again Sandra,
Here is the 1888 plan of Temple burial ground, the white cross marks the Cornwall Lair number 115, as you can see it is a big one.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Rockford,
here is what I have on file from the headstone supplied.
Agnes Gilchrist died at Esperston 22nd September 1852 aged 14 years, Agnes Beattie her mother died at Halkerston 15th August 1876 aged 59 years, Thomas Gilchrist her husband who died at Upper Dalhouseie 18th February 1891 aged 73 years, Charles Gilchrist their son died at Gladhouse 3rd July 1880, A grand-daughter Helen Gichrist died at Gladhouse 8th June 1883, also Hannah Brown wife of Charles Gilchrist.
( Below from the Old Burial Book 1888-1996 ).
Thomas Gilchrist died at Upper Dalhousie on the 19/02/1891
Charles Gilchrist died at Clayhouses Gorebridge on the 06/07/1902
Hannah Gilchrist died at Clayhoses Gorebridge on the 07/07/1919
( The above are all in Lair number 10 )
William Gilchrist died at Outerston aged 50 on the 27/02/1903
Margaret Brydon Gilchrist died at Temple Farm aged 5 1/2 Months on the 12/11/1918
Isabella Gilchrist died at Temple Farm aged 2 1/2 weeks on the 29/08/1920
Mary Gilchrist died at Temple Farm aged 7 years on the 11/04/1925
Margaret Gilchrist died at Outerston aged 92 years on the 24/07/1941
Mary Gilchrist died at 7 High Street Dalkeith aged 71 on the 01/05/1947
( The above are all in Lair number 114 )
I have no idea if these dates are exact death dates or burial dates.
I hope this might help you tracing your family line Rockford, please let me know.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Sandra,
I came across this a photo taken by John Furnevel, this is known as the Lothian Bridge built in 1847 and was the main line to Edinburgh, this may be where your 2nd G Grandfather was killed, it's the only one I know of in the area.
The interior of the Viaduct is overgrown as you can see in the photo, when they closed the Railway the chap who owns the Caravan Site purchased it for the sum total of £1.00 ( one pound ), as it was going to cost the railway a fortune to knock it down or repair it. The railway now want to re-open the line and asked how much he would sell it back for, his reply was one Million pounds, now that's what I call a profit.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much for the photographs. Yes, Charles Hitchiner, who came from Faversham in Kent, recruited most of his gunpowder workforce from England. I knew my 4th and 3rd G Grandparents were buried in lair 115 but didn't know that my 2nd G Grandparents were also in the same grave, so thank you very much for that information.
Many thanks,
Maggie
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Hi Archie,
Thank you for providing the information so quickly. It's appreciated.
Unfortunately, I haven't established a connection to Thomas and Agnes Gilchrist - the family commemorated on the gravestone.
However, William Gilchrist and his wife Margaret from Outerston are definitely mine. William and my great, great grandfather were cousins and your information has filled in some gaps for me.
Best wishes
Brian
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Hello Archie,
What great work you have done!! I have a query re the WEST family which is waiting for a reply. In the meantime I'd like to compare what you have for this tombstone with the transcription I have, which I know contains many errors.
The Tombstone of George West and Grace Horn
Erected by G & J WEST
Thanks.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred hope you read my mail to you, here is the headstone, they are in Lair 21.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much for the photo and the extra information. Now I'd like to compare the transcription I have with yours.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred, this is what I have on record at the end, if there are any additions I would love to have them please, and what they did for a living.
I thought at first wrongly that G & J West were brothers, but the " G " West is the sister, as it states " The above Grace West died in 1896 " it had me going for a while.
As Grace was married to William Walker I would have thought they would have put her married name on the stone in stead of " West ". We have to think like them away back then, many married women were still known by friends and neighbours by their maiden name, for instance, " I see Grace West died " instead of " I see Grace Walker died " I hope you can see where I am coming from.
The 1888-1996 Record Book is very badly kept, many of the family names are missing and details plus dates, I have no idea if this was kept at first by the church or in charge of the council, whoever was in charge of it should have been sacked.
They must all be buried in the one Lair, as you can see by the plan it is one of the largest.
Erected by G & J West in memory of their brother William who
died 15th November 1869 aged 25 years, Margaret daughter of the
above J. West died 22nd January 1875 aged 2 ½ years. Their Father
George died 10th March 1880 aged 62 Years. Their Mother Grace
Horne died 9th September 1885 aged 65 years. The above Grace
West died 5th July 1896 aged 56 years. Also the above Joseph West
died 5th December 1898 aged 47 years. Margaret Sheddon Wife of
the above Joseph West died 6th December 1926 aged 86 years.
Charles Sheddon Father in Law of the above Joseph West died 9th
April 1880 aged 78 years. William Walker Husband of the above
Grace West died 2nd November 1895 aged 75 years.
Where are you based Fred ?.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much. Yes, it is a very large Lair. After checking death records from SP and after zooming into the image I think this is the best fit I can see:
Erected by G. & J. West in loving memory of their brother William who
died 1st November 1869 aged 25 years, Margaret daughter of the
above J. West died 22nd January 1875 aged 2 ½ years. Also their Father
George died 10th March 1880 aged 62 Years. Their Mother Grace
Horne died 9th September 1885 aged 65 years. Also the above Grace
West died 5th July 1896 aged 55 years. Also the above Joseph West
died 5th December 1898 aged 47 years. Margaret Sheddon Wife of
the above Joseph West died 16th December 1926 aged 86 years.
Charles Sheddon Father in Law of the above J. West died 9th
April 1880 aged 78 years. William Walker Husband of the above
G. West died 2nd November 1895 aged 75 years.
I'm an Australian from Sydney but currently in SE Asia. My connection to the WEST family is by the marriage of George & Grace's first child, Catherine born 1838.
George was a cooper at a gunpowder mill. I have copies of the death certificates for George and Grace if you'd like them. I have the SP index entries for a lot of the births and deaths too.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
many thanks for your reply, and thanks for informing me of the Trade, the gunpowder mill would be at Stobbs, not one of the best places to work in but a job was a job in those days, Clayhouses came under Gorebridge and of course Stobbs and Gorebridge came under the Parish of Temple.
Please send a copy of the certificates if you don't mind, in fact if you can send anything that would be fantastic, these would go into my records.
I was in Sunny Brisbane in September and October last year, what a wonderful country Australia is and the people were so kind and helpful. Helen's cousins live in the suburbs, one in a place called Fernyhills about 30 minutes from the Airport and the other in a place called Elimbah about 1 hour from the Airport.
I am afraid the spiders and snakes got to me, looking out for them all the time, I had a very close encounter with a brown snake, it was at my feet, talk about shaking well I froze like God knows what, other than that a fantastic holiday.
If there is anything else you need I will try my best to help.
Take care.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Yes, lots of dangerous creatures in Australia.
George was a cooper at a gun powder mill, his father William a gun powder maker. George's brother Joseph was a shoemaker and George's son Joseph a stone mason. I have nothing yet on George's brother William. Two of George's daughters went to Australia: Catherine and sister Eliza arrived on vessel 'Admiral Lyons' 15 Sep 1857 "Housemaids from Edinburgh". George's daughter Grace married William Walker a hotel keeper. Charles Shedden was a grocer.
I'm wondering if any others of the WEST family are in Temple or if it's just the one lot in Lair 21??
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
Thanks for sending the trades to me, as far as are there any more West's buried there it would depend on when they arrived in Temple and if proper records were made before 1888.
It seems that records were started from 1688, there are some stones at Temple from that date onwards, sadly these only have initials on them.
I will try and get to the Library and look up the Old Parish Registers, what I have heard is that the ones for the 1700's are badly water damaged and some are very hard to read and also torn, we have no idea how that happened.
There was quite a big firm of shoemakers in Gorebridge I think between 10 or 12 were employed, and there would have been plenty of work for the Masons.
If I find anything else on the West's I will be in touch again.
Many thanks again.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thanks. I was wondering about George's brother William born 1807 and their parents William born abt 1782 and his spouse Catharine (nee MacKenzie) born abt 1784. I don't know yet when any of the three died for sure but Catherine may have died 1841-1851 if the 1841 census listing is her.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
once I get the records I will see if they are in there, I have the 1694 Census record for November at Temple and there are no West's in it.
The funny thing about the Temple burial ground is, for 4 hundred years there are very little people buried there, when we look at the past populations of the Village and area there were a lot of people kicking about.
On a rough count I can only find around 600 names and that includes around 12 from 1689 to the 1700's, then I ask myelf where are they all.
There were burial grounds at Clerkington and Mount Lothian both are no longer there, there is one at Carrington and another just down from it at Whitehill Aisle.
My own investigations think that this burial ground is on top of another, either that or the burials were deeper than normal, say 8 to 10 feet deep, who knows perhaps one day we will know.
Could they have ben English ?, Horne itself sounds like an English name, as Sandra said Charles Hitchener brought a lot of workers up with him, with William being a gunpowder maker it sounds much like he came up from the South.
I wonder why two young ladies would travel to Australia, was it a promise of better work with assisted passage, anyway, it seems that they must have done well, and you must be proud of them for taking the big leap.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thanks. I don't know about Grace being English. Her death certificate has no parents listed so she remains a mystery. I don't know about William either.
Catherine ended up marrying in NSW James Sands who was born in Dunfermline and Eliza married James Litten and so far I can't find his birth.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
thanks again for filling in some holes, if you don't mind, I would like to put some information you gave me in my records from the old book of Temple burial ground.
I take it you probably have these already but I thought I would send them just in case you don't, Horne could be Horn as it shows up in Temple as you will see, it's a pity we don't know her parents or the area she came from.
STOBHILL
Margaret West born 19th May 1872 father Joseph West mother Margaret Shedden or Peat.
Grace West born 7th May 1874 parents as above.
STOW
Agne West married William Welch 22nd May 1761.
James Horn born 18th August 1754 father James Horn mother Marion Pride.
John Horn born 4th March 1759 parents as above.
TEMPLE
George West born 16th July 1867 mother Ann West ( No father mentioned )
Joseph West born 30th April 1805 father William West mother Cathrine McKenzie.
William West born 30th September 1807 parents as above.
Elizabeth West born 3rd February 1840 George West mother Grace Horn.
Grace West born 12th February 1842 father parents as above.
William West born 7th February 1844 parents as above
Ann West born 16th September 1847 parents as above.
Mary West married Robert Hunter 19th November 1836.
George West Married Grace Horn 19th May 1837.
CARRINGTON
Mary Horn born 9th November 1856 father Michel ( Michael ) Horn mother Bridget Michell ( Mitchell ).
CHRICHTON
William Horne married Catharine Alison 9th August 1805.
BORTHWICK
Mary West born 11th March 1838 father George West mother Grace Horn. ( A Twin to Catherine below )
Catherine West born 11th March 1838 parents as above.
Joseph West born 1st November 1851 parents as above.
Mary West married Robert Trench 24th August 1855.
Grace Horn married George West 19th May 1837.
Joseph West married Helen Ferguson 16th June 1843.
CRANSTON
George Horn christened 29 December 1793 father William Horn mother Marrion Renton.
DALKEITH
Christan Horne married John McMillan 27th November 1680.
LASSWADE
Kathering Horne married George Cockburne 23rd July 1872.
Jane Horne married Francis George 22nd September 1835.
NEWBATTLE
Mary West married Robert Hunter 15th November 1836.
NEWTON
James West Married Katreine Watt 8th September 1658.
PENICUICK
Catherine Horne born 30th May 1856 father John Horne mother Martha Brown.
Martha Horne born 25th August 1860 parents as above.
John Horne born 5th December 1865 parents as above.
Janet Mitchell Horne born 7th April 1864 parents as above.
Sophia Louisa Horne born 15th April 1861 father John Horne mother Mary White.
John Horne married Martha Brown 11th Octoer 1850.
I hope this is not to much Fred but I thought trying all the nearest parts to Temple.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much. I was missing some of the marriages of the WEST children. I had none of the HORN(E) at all. Interesting that the census says Grace HORN who married George was born in Kirkcaldy, Fife. She has to fit in somehow but there seems no obvious marriage or siblings given her birth around 1820.
I will search now that I have some more HORN names.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
glad to hear it was of use, check this site out below, this is the one I used and is of great help.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyMidlothian.htm
As you will see I have attached photos I took of the church at Temple, this is the original one and may have been the one the West family used for marriage and chritenings. There was another across the road from it and this was built 1832, further up in the newer village was the Free Church of Scotland.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thanks a lot for the link and the photos. I'm not making much sense of the HORN entries. I don't know how Grace fits in yet.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
I have tried all of the Kirkcaldy side but can't see Grace, sometimes there were no records made of christenings or maybe she never was which would be strange, the church frowned on kids not getting christened.
Can I ask what Census you looked up please ?, just to give me an idea.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Of course the census could be wrong in saying Kirkcaldy.
1871
Stobhill, Midlothian
WEST
George...age 56...Cooper...born Temple c1815
Grace...age 56...born Kirkcaldy Fife c1815
Joseph...age 22...Mason...born Borthwick c1849
Alexander Trench...Grandson...age 14...Coalminer...b c1857 Borthwick
Can you please look for McKENZIE too. George's father William's spouse was a Cathrin/Catherine McKENZIE.
Thanks.
Fred
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Hi Fred,
looking up local areas this is all I could find for McKenzie or nearest.
DALKEITH
In Dalkeith there is a Chatherin McKinzie born 10th August 1794 father John McKinzie mother Agness Cammarin.
CHRICHTON
Katherine McKenzie born 14th August 1798 father John McKenzie mother Hamilton Anderson.
BORTHWICK
Mary West married Robert H. Trench 24th August 1855. Th " H " I think is for Hutchison.
Robert Hutchison Trench born 22nd April 1857.
Possably a cousin of above, Thomas Trench born about 7th October 1867 father Robert Trench mother Isabella Ritchie
COCKPEN
This looks like the same couple as above and moved to this area.
Frederick Trench born 4th June 1872 father Robert Trench mother Isabella Ritchie.
LASSWADE
Could this be the same couple again.
Elizabeth Trench born 25th December 1874 father Robert Trence mother Isabella Ritchie.
Robert Trench married Iabella Ritchie ist December 1865.
I thought by chasing this couple up I would have found your kin but no luck, sorry.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Thanks a lot for those. I'll work on it.
Regards,
Fred
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Just out of curiosity.. Is there any Primrose's buried there?
Primrose family from Edinburgh, MIDLOTHIAN... any ideas where they would be buried?
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Hi Kate,
sorry there none of that name buried in Temple, I will have to look at the Old Parish Registers when I come back from holiday, I get back on the 13th April.
I have just got the names from the headstones and luckily there are some from the 17oo's that can still be read, other like the 1600's stones only have initials on them.
I also have all the names from the 1888-1996 book, this book was very badly kept and many people have been left out.
There is a burial ground at Whitehill Aisle and Carrington they are both close to each other, the Whitehill Aisle ground is a lot older and goes back to the 13th century.
The others were at Clerkington just up the road from Temple and further on was the Mount Lothian one, sadly both have gone now and no trace of any stones, however, if the primrose family were buried anywhere it could have been at Clerkington.
In the IGI there is a Dorothea Primrose christened at Temple
Christened the 28th June 1708 parents Archibald Earl of Roseberry Primrose mother Dorothea Cressy, the daughter died on the 6th November 1768.
Clerkington at one time was called Primrose.
We have to remember that all the other burial grounds mentioned came under the Parish of Temple, meaning that they may not be buried in the Temple burial ground.
Can you give me any more information please as to dates and names.
Sorry for not coming up with the goods at the moment.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Fred,
thanks, I am away for a week to Spain and won't be back till the 13th April, leave on Saturday.
Catch you when I get back.
Best Archie.
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Hello Archie,
Ok, hope you have a great time.
Regards,
Fred
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I have just seen your posting of 8th March about Temple Village burials and I wondered if you have information about the Bennet family or any others associated - Thorburn, Dewar, Cornwall, Douglas, Erskine, Donaldson, Ramage
as follows:-
Thomas Bennet married Euphemia Thorburn on 07/08/1829 at Temple, Midlothian
She was born 08/10/1809 - her parents John Thorburn and Margaret Dewar
Children Thomas born 13/08/1830 and John born 26/07/1839.
Thomas married Anne Cornwall on 28/06/1859 at Temple, Midlothian
John married a Miss Douglas
Thomas Bennet and Anne Cornwall born 10/09/1839
The had 8 known children
John, Annie, Euphemia, Robert, Matthew, Richard, Margaret and Peter – born between 1860 and 1880.
Annie married George Hunter in 1889
Anne Cornwall was the daughter of Thomas Cornwall and Ann Erskine - married Thomas Bennet on 20/07/1825 at Temple.
They had 3 children Richard born 10/04/1826 , Thomas born 09/07/1829 and Anne born 10/09/1839
Richard married Janet Donaldson on 24/06/1849 at Temple. She was born on 25 Jun 1829 Her parents were John Donaldson and Mary Ramage, who married 25 Nov 1811. Mary's father was Richard Ramage.
This is from my website http://www.mccaskie.org.uk/Bennet.htm
Thanks in advance
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Hi Mac,
sorry for the delay in sending but I am just back from Spain.
I don't have any with the christian names you have given me, however, I do have some surnames.
Check out an earlier posting I done for Sandra who may be a relative of yours, url below.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,366809.0.html
Mary Graham Bennet died at Braidwood Bank 22nd October 1888
aged 91 years, also William Graham who died at Braidwood Bank
5th January 1889 aged 90 years, also Margaret Shaw Bennet who
died at Jane Bank in Bonnyrigg 14th November 1894 aged 67 years.
John Brydon who died at Braidwood Bank 26th March 1932 aged 73
years, Grandson of the above Mary Graham also her Daughter Jane
died at Esperston Hill 25th February 1919 aged 29 years, also
Marjoribanks Magdalene Livingston died 24th June 1930 aged 82
years, Wife of the above John Brydon.
Ann Bennett aged 91 died 03/10/1912 wife of Walter Brydon aged 45 died 13/04/1898 at Jane Bank Bonnyrigg.
Helen Bennett aged 90 died 14/01/1954 at Haggs Kirknewton wife off William Bald aged 63 died 09/03/1936 at Mauldslie.
John Cornwall died 1844 no age given, possably at Stobbs. John Cornwall aged 68 died 18/02/1901 at Stobbs Mills. Janet Cornwall aged 79 died 22/07/1912 at Powder Mill Cottages. Richard Cornwall aged 60 died 20/09/1918 at Gowkshill.
Richard Cornwall died 17/02/1826. his daughter Mary died 29th December year is obliterated aged 3 years. Thomas Cornwall aged 11 years died 26/06/1810. Mary Cornwall aged 19 years died 01/08/1856. Mary Knight ( Cornwall ) aged 86 years died 15/02/1858. Thomas Cornwall aged 63 died 23/10/1863
Erected by John Thorburn, Joiner at Arniston in memory of his Wife
Christian Pendreich died 18th November 1898 aged 49 years, also
their Son David Pendreich died 20th December 1888 aged 4 years,
also the above John Thorburn died 19th February 1915 aged 64
years. All died at Arniston Saw Mill.
I hope some of these are relatives.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
I would like to say a big thank you for the tombstone information pertaining to the Cornwall family. Like Sandra and Maggie, they are my gg grandparents too. The photographs are wonderful.
I hope you have a great weekend.
Alison
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Many thanks for the time you took to add the information about Benet and Cornwall. I am more than happy about this and also because I found on another posting - surname search Ramage/Murray" - this adds to my information about the marriage of John Donaldson and Mary Ramage as in my web page http://www.mccaskie.org.uk/Bennet.htm . I have copied all the correspondence unto a word doc and will research in depth this evening and search Scotlands People.
Many thanks Heather
=======
Hi Mac,
sorry for the delay in sending but I am just back from Spain.
I don't have any with the Christian names you have given me, however, I do have some surnames.
Check out an earlier posting I done for Sandra who may be a relative of yours, url below.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,366809.0.html
Mary Graham Bennet died at Braidwood Bank 22nd October 1888
aged 91 years, also William Graham who died at Braidwood Bank
5th January 1889 aged 90 years, also Margaret Shaw Bennet who
died at Jane Bank in Bonnyrigg 14th November 1894 aged 67 years.
John Brydon who died at Braidwood Bank 26th March 1932 aged 73
years, Grandson of the above Mary Graham also her Daughter Jane
died at Esperston Hill 25th February 1919 aged 29 years, also
Marjoribanks Magdalene Livingston died 24th June 1930 aged 82
years, Wife of the above John Brydon.
Ann Bennett aged 91 died 03/10/1912 wife of Walter Brydon aged 45 died 13/04/1898 at Jane Bank Bonnyrigg.
Helen Bennett aged 90 died 14/01/1954 at Haggs Kirknewton wife off William Bald aged 63 died 09/03/1936 at Mauldslie.
John Cornwall died 1844 no age given, possably at Stobbs. John Cornwall aged 68 died 18/02/1901 at Stobbs Mills. Janet Corwall aged 79 died 22/07/1912 at Powder Mill Cottages. Richard Cornwall aged 60 died 20/09/1918 at Gowkshill.
Richard Cornwall died 17/02/1826. his daughter Mary died 29th December year is obliterated aged 3 years. Thomas Cornwall aged 11 years died 26/06/1810. Mary Cornwall aged 19 years died 01/08/1856. Mary Knight ( Cornwall ) aged 86 years died 15/02/1858. Thomas Cornwall aged 63 died 23/10/1863
Erected by John Thorburn, Joiner at Arniston in memory of his Wife
Christian Pendreich died 18th November 1898 aged 49 years, also
their Son David Pendreich died 20th December 1888 aged 4 years,
also the above John Thorburn died 19th February 1915 aged 64
years. All died at Arniston Saw Mill.
I hope some of these are relatives.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie:
My great-great-great-grandfather, John Calder, died in Temple village on Oct. 12, 1874. His wife, Agnes Linton, died in Middlemills, Lasswade in 1882. Do you have any record of their burial in the Temple village burial ground?
Thank you!
John
Cambridge, Ontario
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Hi Maggie - I saw your very interesting posting about the Cornwall family. My husband's 2nd great grandmother was Anne Cornwall b 10 Sep 1839, sister of your Richard b 10 Apr 1826 - my web page http://www.mccaskie.org.uk/Bennet.htm - so with this gravestone image and your posting we are one generation further back. Anne married Thomas Bennet on 28 Jun 1859.
I will update my website. Heather
Hi Archie,
Thank you for the headstone photograph of the Cornwall family in Temple Kirkyard. (You previously sent one of my Ramage ancestors). My 4th G Grandparents Richard Cornwall b. 1769 West Molesey, Surrey, married to Mary Knight of Middlesex came to Scotland in the late 1790's to work at the Gunpowder factory - he was killed in an explosion at the factory on 17th February 1825. His son Thomas Cornwall b.1800 Stobmills, my 3rd G Grandfather, died in 1863 from an injured spleen, and his son Richard Cornwall b. 1826 at Stobmills, my 2nd G Grandfather, died in 1893 after being struck by a locomotive on the viaduct bridge while working on the line. All three ancestors died a horrible death.
Inserting the story below.
Regards,
Maggie
Dreadful Explosion.
A Full and Particular Account of that Dreadful
Explosion of Gunpowder, at Stobbs Mills, on
Thursday last the 17th February, 1825, at a few
minutes past Eight in the moratng, by which two
Men and a Horse lost their lives, and several others
were severely injured.
About ten minutes after eight yesterday morning the inhabitants
of the odjacent villages of Stobbs and Gore Bridge, and neighbour-
hood, were thrown into great alarm, in consequence of an explosi-
son of gunpowder, which tock place at one of the branches of the
extensive manufactory which Messrs. Hitchener and Hunter have
for many years carried on at Stabbsmills. The accident is one of
such a nature as precludes all possibility of ascertaining how it
originated, which, of course, must, must ever remain matter of con.
jecture ; all that is known is, that a man named Walter Thomson
had gone with a cart loaded with powder from one of the mills to.
the charge-house, a kind of temporary store house in which the
powder is kept, until there is room in the stove or drying house to
receive it, and nearly adjoins the later, and this person must have
been in the act of unloading the cart at the moment the explosion
accurred. Fortunately, however, the sufferers have been few, ts it
is ascertained that Thomson ( the carter ) and an old man named
Richard Cornwall employed at the stove, were the only individuals
who lost their "lives ; their bodies were blown to atoms, and but
small portions of them have been picked up, at great distances from
each other, and in such a condition as rendered it impossible to dis-
tinguish to which of the two they belonged ; the head and neck of
one was reoonised from the neckloth about it.
The horse was thrown a considerable distancet and some of the
barrels of powder which had been placed on the cart were blown in
the air, and exploded over the heads of the ploughmen in the fields
The materials of the stove house and charge house, which are both
raised to the foundation, are lying in directions, extending to a eir-
cumferance of at least half a mile, covering the fields like flocks of
birds. So great was the concussion that in the villages scarcely a
window has escaped its ravages ; that of Stobbsmills, although nea-
rest the scene of the explosion, has suffered least, but in Gore Bridde
many houses have not a whole pane left, and the roofs present a
most picturesque appearance ; some entirely unroofed on one side,
and from most of the others the tiles are moved down so as some-
what to resemble a sieve. The meeting-house at Gore Bridge has
not only suffered in glass, but the astrigals of several of the win-
dows have gone alone with the more fragile materials: even at the
farm house of Newhouses at leasl three quarters of a mile from the
mills, many of the panes were broken and the doors of some of the
houses were burst open. We haxe heard too that the glass in the
hot-houses at Vogrie, three miles distant were broken, and part of
the ceiling of the house of Fountainhall was thrown down. The
concussion was quite terrific in Dalkeith, four miles distant, and af-
fected the buildings so much as to prevent the doors from shutting
and in Ormiston, Tranent, and Musselburgh, it was distinctly felt.
Here, in Edinburgh, fully nine miles from the mills, the two explo-
sions were very generally heard, but supposed by many to be blasts
in the neighbourhing quarries, or a salut from a vessel in the Frith.
The quantity of powder supposed to hare exploded is calcnlated
at about six tons weight, forty barrels were in the store, forty or
fifty in the charge house, and ten on the cart. The two unfortu-
nate men who were killed had both families.
Printed for Robert M'Millan,—PRICE ONE PENNY.
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Hello Archie
A special friend of mine who is now sadly deceased would be very pleased and proud of the job you are doing with Temple churchyard and its records. You may very well know of him; Alastair Anderson. Alastair and I go back some thirty years and when he was chairman of the Gorebridge historical society he helped me so much with my research on my Smith family history, so much so we became good friends. Temple meant so much to Alasdair and the last act carried out by him was the addition of the gates to the churchyard.
I am a direct descendant of Alexander Smith of Harvieston Terrace and his son Robert Smith, [my great grandfather] architect of Gorebridge who built many fine buildings in Gorebridge and around the district. My father is another Robert Smith named after his grandfather the architect was born in Harvieston Terrace, houses his grandfather built. Alexander Smith of Harvieston Terrace had a successful joiners/builders/undertakers business in the village and when he passed away another son Peter took the business over. My research 'brickwall' is Harvieston estate having traced two generations of Smiths employed there as servants to Thomas Cranstoun with another Alexander Smith who came to the estate with the Cranstouns.
Keep up the excellent work.
Best Regards
Royston Smith
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Hi Royston,
thank you very much for your kind comments, as a Scottish Knight Templar I have been working on the history of the area for the past 3 years, there was a chap 20 years ago who made out a list of the Temple burial ground, he had missed a few out and some stones he could not make out the inscriptions.
I decided to put something back into the community and took over where he had left off, at the same time I decide to take photographs of all the stones at Temple and have them all now on record. In this way it helps those who live abroad and those in the UK that can't manage to see them, I can now send them by email to them to help them further in their family quest.
Sadly I never met Alistair, but the gates are beautiful to look at and reflect on Alistair very much, I only wish I had known him or even have met up with him, they are not just a major part of Temple burial ground but are a monument to him as well.
You said that you have hit a brick wall with the Smith family, in what way ?, I have Smiths from the old burial book and some with stones at Temple, however, some dates and christian names are missing, it was a very badly kept book. The book covers from 1888 till 1996.
If I can be of any help please get in touch again and I will see what I can do.
Best regards.
Archie.
-
Temple village Forum.
I have put some information on the above Forum, it would be nice if all those who have ancestors who came from Temple village or the greater Parish of Temple, to post interesting stories or not so interesting on the Forum.
So come on guys get your fingers tapping and join in on the Forum, all you have to do is register, and best of all it's free, the url is below.
http://www.templevillage.org.uk/forum/
I hope that I am not breaking any rules on this site by posting this, if I am then I am deeply sorry.
The Temple site owners are not aware that I am posting this, so please smack my hand and not theirs.
Archie.
-
Through a local website I found 8 men by the name of Cornwall, who fought in World War I, many survived, one was not so fortunate, they are.
Private = Pte. Driver = Dvr
Private James R. Cornwall No. S/18161 Cameron Highlanders 6th Battalion he lived at Newtongrange.
Pte. Richard Cornwall No. 9425 Queens Own Cameron Highlanders 1st Battalion lived at Newtongrange.
One of the first men from the village to die and the first of the Cornwall's he died of his wounds at Ypres in November,1914 and is buried at the Railway Chateau Cemetery.
Pte. John Cornwall No. 15047 Royal Scots 12th Battalion he was the son of Mr. & Mrs. Richard Cornwall Newtongrange.
Pte. John Cornwall No. GS/6897 77182 Royal Fusiliers, Royal Field Artillery possibly lived at Newtongrange.
Dvr. Walter Cornwall No. 69131 36th Royal Field Artillerylived at Newtongrange.
Pte. Richard Cornwall No. 6318 S/24728 Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders and Seaforth Highlanders lived at Newtongrange.
Pte. Hugh Cornwall No. 4419 3349414 AV1920 Royal Scots 8th Battalion and Gordon Highlanders lived at Newtongrange.
With a special thanks to John Duncan.
Templar.
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Hi Archie,
I have seen your post about burials in Templar, I seem to be coming across a growing number of TAITS in my family tree coming from Templar would you be able to look for their burials?
Thanks in advance.
Kate
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Hi Kate,
sorry for the delay in sending the names. I hope this will help you in finding your family.
All spellings are correct as they were registered.
Please notice how the spellings of names in the births section changes with the parents, they could not read or write, the Clerk would have asked, " Is the spelling correct " they would have replied " Yes "
Best regards.
Archie.
BURIALS
Elizabeth Tait died 29th January 1890 aged 72 years, she may have married a James Thomson who died 15th August 1894 aged 73 years late of Temple Farm. The stone is covered in Lichen and hard to read. ( Photo of headstone can be supplied )
James Tait died 29th April 1867and his wife Janet Laing died 20th August 1873, both died at Mauldslie Cottage, the stone was erected by possably their son James Tait. ( Photo of headstone can be supplied )
Jean Tait died 14th February 1930, Charles Tait died 18th February 1939, James G. Tait died 25th September 1957, all died at Howburn Farm. ( No headstone )
There is a Tait - Burton this is the inscription this family were at one time part of the Tait's.
Sacred to the memory of W. T. Burton of Stewarton and Toxide died 22nd July 1863 aged 73 years, also William T. Burton his 2nd son died 8th February 1863 aged 12 years, also Margaret White his Wife died at Edinburgh 4th January 1879 aged 70 years, erected by William Tait Burton. ( Photo of headstone can be supplied )
MARRIAGES
Robert Taite married Marion Affleck 19 May 1710.
Agnes Taite married John Rammage 26 August 1715.
Helen Taite married John Trooedie 6 July 1716.
Thomas Taite married Marion Currie 20 July 1722.
John Taite married Mary Stephenson 26 July 1725.
Thomas Taitt married Elizabeth Burton 3 July 1752.
James Taitt married Bettie Baxter 2 July 1762.
WilliamTait married Rebecka Sprott 20 December 1767.
John Tait Married Janet Kay 29 August 1873
James Tait married Janet Brunton 24 January 1790
Marion Taitt married George Hislop 3 September 1781.
BIRTHS
Elspeth Tait 21 September 1726. Parents John Tait and Mary Stephenson.
William Taite 24 March 1728. Parents John Taite and Mary Stephensone.
Robert Taite 26 April 1730. Parents John Taite and Mary Stephenson.
James Taite 16 April 1732. Parents John Taite and Mary Stephenson.
John Taite 24 February 1734. Parents John Taite and Mary Stephenson.
Thomas Tait 29 October 1735. Parents John Tait and Mary Sevenson.
Jean Tait 10 August 1737. Parents John Tait and Mary Stevenson.
George Tait 28 March 1739. Parents John Tait and Mary Stevenson.
Anthony Tait 25 January 1743. Parents John Tait and Mary Stevenson.
Alexander Tait 31 March 1745. Parents John Tait and Mary Stephenson.
William Taitt 14 August 1754. Parents Thomas Taitt and Elizabeth Burton.
James Taitt 29 June 1756. Parents Thomas Taitt and Elizabeth Burton.
Marion Taitt 14 March 1758. Parents Thomas Taitt and Elizabeth Burton.
William Taitt 28 November 1763. Parents James Taitt and Bettie Baxter.
Bettie Tatt 29 November 1765. Parents James Taitt and Bettie Baxter.
Marrion Taitt 25 January 1768. Parents James Taitt and Bettie Baxter.
Elizabet Taitt 18 February 1768. Parents Thomas Taitt and Elizabeth Burton.
Thomas Taitt 22 December 1769. Parents James Taitt and Bettie Baxter.
Marrion Taitt 30 August 1789. Parents John Taitt and Isabel Purdie.
William Taitt 27 January 1791. Parents James Taitt and Janet Brunton.
Euphans Tait 14 June 1792. Parents James Tait and Janet Brunton.
Elizabeth Tait 20 April 1794. Parents James Tait and Janet Brunton.
Thomas Tait 14 January 1796. Parents James Tait and Janet Brunton.
James Tait 29 March 1797. Parents James Tait and Janet Brunton.
David Tait 31 August 1800. Parents John Tait and Janet Weatherston.
Jean Tait 5 January 1804. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennycuick.
Agnes Tait 1 December 1805. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennywick
William Tait 2 October 1807. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennycuick.
James Tait 9 July 1809. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennycuick.
William Tait 10 July 1811. Parents William Tait and Joan Ronaldson.
Janet Tait 3 July 1812. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennywick.
Marrion Tait 2 April 1815. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennywick.
John Tait 18 May 1817. Parents James Tait and Janet Pennycook.
James Tait 23 December 1856. Parents James Tait and Janet Laing.
Margaret Helen Burton Tait 28 May 1859. Parents James Tait and Janet Laing.
Jean Fairgrieve Tait 25 May 1861. Parents George Tait and Jessie Fairgrieve.
Mary Pagan Tait 10 January 1863. Parents George Tait and Jessie Fairgrieve.
William Thomas Tait 11 April 1863. Parents James Tait and Janet Laing.
Jane Tait 13 Jan 1865. Parents David Tait and Margaret Gray.
Mary Tait 28 March 1869. Parents David Tait and Margaret Gray.
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Hello Archie:
Wondering if there are any Umpherstons/Umphrastouns or Marks in the MI? 1700 to 1770 time frame.
Thank you.
-
Thanks for the info.
Has helped my studies :)
Kate
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H lanerman,
I think this is the one you are looking for, however I have mailed the others with Merk/Mark spellings in case they are of any good to you.
Isobell Mark married William Umpherstoune on the 6 June 1721.
Please notice below the variations in the spelling of the names.
OTHER MARRIAGES AT TEMPLE
Bessie Merk married John White on the 17 May 1690.
Agnes Merk married John Beattie on the 19 December 1690, her father was Thomas Merk.
James Merk married Marion Aikin 29 May 1691.
Margaret Merk married Mungo Rennick on th 28 February 1692.
James Merk married Isobell Hunter on the 9 May 1701.
Helen Mark married George Hoge on the 17 December 1703.
James Mark married Margaret Gibson on the 16 May 1731.
Marion Mark married Andrew Hope on the 15 June 1733.
Janet Mark married John Crese on the 19 June 1763.
AT CARRINGTON
James Humpherston married Issobell Dickson 8 December 1682
CHRISTENINGS AT TEMPLE
Thomas Merk 11 July 1689 parents William Merk and Agnes Adinstone.
Helen Merk 4 August 1689 parents George Merk and Cirstian Patersone.
James Merk 31 August 1692 parents William Merk and Agnes Adingstone.
Elizabeth Merk 3 April 1692 parents George Merk and Christian Paterson.
James Mark 10 December 1693 parents George Mark and Christian Patersone.
Isobell Merk 15 July 1694 parents William Merk and Agnes Adingstone.
Marion Merk 26 February 1699 parents William Merk and Agnes Adingstoune.
Bethia Mark 31 March 1727 parents John Mark and Elizabeth Martin.
James Mark 23 March 1735 parents James Mark and Margaret Gibson.
Euphan Mark 10 February 1736 parents James Mark and Agnes Scot.
Margaret Mark 18 September 1744 parents Robert Mark and Agnes Muire.
Willam Mark 26 September 1865 parents William Mark and Agnes Crooks.
Marion Forest Mark 9 February 1868 parents William Mark and Agnes Crooks,
Marion Umpherston 8 August 1725 parents William Umpherston and Isobell Mark.
James Humpherston married Issobell Dickson 8 December 1682
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hello Archie:
I didn't expect this much information - thats great! I believe that Wm. U. and Isobell Mark were my 6x great grandparents. William may have been the son of James U. and Isobel Dickson, whom you list. And I also guess (thats dangerous) that Isobell Mark was the daughter of William Merk/Agnes Addingstoune.
Thanks a million for this- I do appreciate it.
lanar
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Hi lanar,
Great to have been of help to you, do you know of their professions ?, I love to know what the local people done and what their lifestyle was. Your ancestors would have possibly lived in the old part of Temple or perhaps Clerkington, but by this date Temple was a large Parish, they would also have been married in the old Chapel built by the Knights Templar, that is my interest in the area as I am a Scottish Knight Templar this is the link to our site. http://www.skt.org.uk/
When did your branch of the family go to Canada ?.
This link shows a headstone to Charles Umpherstone who died in 1681 and was a Tenant at Pentland, also Robert Umpherstone who died in 1624, he was married to Helen Alexander who after James had died then married James Currie . http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2002/pdf/vol_041/41_081_099.pdf
CHRISTENINGS AT COCKPEN
Mark Umpherston 13 September 1696, parents John Umpherston and Janet Duff.
Anna Umpherston 4 December 1898, parents John Umpherston and Janet Duff.
MARRIAGES AT CHRICHTON
David Umpherston 21 February 1768, no name for his wife.
Alison Umpherston married William Rankin 15 January 1788.
MARRIAGES AT NEWBATTLE
I wonder what happened here, it seems the same couple are married twice in the same year.
John Umpherston married Jannet Duff 18 October 1691.
John Umpherston married Jannet Duff 13 November 1691
Best.
Archie.
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Hi again Lanar,
here is more on the Umpherston's, I thought I would get as many as I could from the outlying areas.
Best regards.
Archie.
MARRIAGES AT LASSWADE
James Humpherston married Isobell Dickson 30 November 1682.
Helen Umpherston married William Ancrum December 1685 no day given.
William Umpherston married Issobell Mark 6 June 1721.
Charles Umpherston married Elisabeth Oliphant 19 February 1790.
Margaret Umpherston married James Nicol 18 February 1791.
Janet Umpherston married Andrew Brunton 16 November 1832.
William Umpherston married Alison Millar 10 May 1860.
CHRISTENINGS AT LASSWADE
The tree listings below are the same parents, notice the change in spellings.
William Humferston 5 January 1670 parents Robert Humferston and Janet Broune.
Charles Umpherston 15 January 1686 parents Robert Umpherston and Janet Brown.
James Umpherston 27 April 1683 parents Robert Umpherston and Janet Broun.
Robert Umpherston 10 May 1691 parents Robert Umpherston and Alison Pennycuik.
John Umpherston 10 January 1694 parents Robert Umpherston and Alison Pennycuik.
William Umpherston 15 February 1791 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Francis Umpherston 17 October 1792 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Janet Umpherston 20 July 1794 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Helen Umpherston 30 August 1796 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Elisabeth Umpherston 2 March 1800 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
James Umpherston23 January 1802 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Charles Umpherston 29 April 1804 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Beatrix Umphertson 16 March 1806 parents Charles Umpherston and Elisabeth Oliphant.
Grace Mary Umpherston 9 March 1861 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
Alice Marion Umpherston 6 February 1863 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
William Henry Umpherston 13 September 1864 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
James White Millar Umpherston 25 January 1866 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
Charles Frederick Umpherston 23 November 1867 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
Francis Albert Umpherston 10 June 1869 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
Agnes Margaret Umpherston 4 May 1871 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
Helen Christian Umpherston 3 December 1872 parents William Umpherston and Alison Millar.
MARRIAGES AT DALKEITH
Isobell Umpherston married Alexander Tait 5 November 1667.
CHRISTENINGS AT DALKEITH
William Umpherston 14 March 1675 parents Thomas Umpherston and Maryon Wright.
Alexander Umpherston 2 May 1679 parents Thomas Umpherston and Maryon Wright.
John Umpherston 2 December 1718 parents Mark Umpherston and Janet Monilaws.
Mark Umpherston 11 March 1722 parents Mark Umpherston and Janet Monyles.
Janet Umpherston 14 January 1759 parents Robert Umpherston and Isobell French.
Alison Umpherston 2 March 1761 parents Robert Umpherston and Isobell French.
John Umpherston 7 November 1762 parents Robert Umpherston and Isobell French.
MUSSELBURGH AND INVERESK
Janet Umpherston 6 October 1751 parents James Umpherston and Violet Robertson.
Margaret Umpherston 22 April 1723 parents James Umpherston and Violet Robertson.
Robert Umpherston 6 September 1728 parents James Umpherston and Violet Robertson.
Which part of Canada are you in ?, we have family in a place called Campbellford Ontario, another branch of my family lived in London Ontario, we love Canada and the people they are so much like us.
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Hi lanar,
it seems there is a mistake as to where William and Isobel were married, so it's toss the coin time Temple or Lasswade, these are two different Parishes someone has made a huge mistake at some time.
Can I ask why you thought of Temple please ?.
Archie.
-
Hello Archie:
Will try to answer your questions. I do not know what their occupations were; some are listed as "Indweller" which I presume means "citizen" ?? My family came to Canada in 1828 from Cambuslang, Glasgow. I have traced my ancestry back to a James Umpherston born in 1723 but lived in Glasgow from about 1745 onwards. His burial record says that he was 45 years old in 1768 when he died and was buried in High Church cemetery, Glasgow. There are only 2 James Umpherstons born in 1723, according to the IGI and I have eliminated one of them. The other James I found born in 1723 (who is most likely my 5th G Grandfather) was born to William Umpherston and Isobel Mark in Lasswade. William is recorded as an "Indwellar in Puttingstonlaw", wherever that is or was. I then found William and Isobels marriage in 1721 in Lasswade and some of their children baptized in Temple- thats when I posted the request. I have seen most of the Umpherston data that you list, but not the Mark information.
As for the different marriage dates- I wonder if the earlier dates refer to banns and the later date to the actual marriage?
THANKS for the compliments. I am one proud Canuck with great pride in my Scottish roots ;)
And I live about a 2 hour drive from Campbellford, Ontario.
Thanks again.
lanarman
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Hi lanerman,
I have tried looking at old maps but unable to find Puttingstonlaw, however, the name Puttingston or Puttingstone means, some heavy stones were piled at the gates of great houses and used in trials of strength. Puttingston, the " Ton " at the end means it would have been a Farm of some kind. I have asked the locals for their help on this and await their reply.
" Indweller " meant that the person or persons resided within that area, would have been recognised by the locals as being Ok, if not they would have been known as " Strangers "
Are you near Peterboro.
Best.
Archie.
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Archie:
That would be a bonus to find the origin/location of Puttingstonlaw.
Are you in Temple/Lasswade? Thats where one branch of the Umpherston/Umphrastoun (of that Ilk) originate from. Another branch in Berwickshire and the Borders area. My family seems to have moved from one of these areas (probably Temple/Lasswade) circa 1745 to Glasgow where he was a weaver and maltman (mostly a weaver). No other Umpherstons in Glasgow before that.
I've sent you a private message.
Best regards,
lanarman
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Private message in your box, if I get an answer about Puttingston Law I will get right back to you.
If I can be of any more help just give me a shout.
Best.
Archie.
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Hello Archie,
I don't know if this thread is already closed as it is almost a month from the last posting. I came across it ony a couple of days ago while looking for info.
I am researching the following families from Temple Village:
Sprott (the earliest date I have is a William Sprott born 27 Dec 1696),
Moffat (Euphan Moffat (no DOB) married William Sprott (no DOB) - parents of the above William - on 28 Feb 1696)
Walker (Janet Walker (no DOB) married William Sprott (the son) on 23 Aug 1723)
Do you perhaps have any info on them?
Many thanks
Karolyn
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Hi Karolyn,
There are no Sprotts on my records buried at Temple and the others you are looking for are not listed as well, however they may be in the OPR's which I do not have yet.
I believe that the Temple burial ground holds more than is mentioned, I only have the 1888 - 1996 records though I do have incriptions from the older stones, I believe that each lair could hold as many as 10 coffins.
I have tried as best possible to get the names you want, however, when there is very little to go on it makes it harder to trace them, there are quite a lot of Sprotts in surrounding areas, would you like me to send these onto you ?.
Best regards.
Archie.
CHRISTENINGS AT TEMPLE
Agnes Sprott 29 August 1694 parents John Sprott and Agnes Kinnaird.
Helen Sprott 19 January 1696 parents John Sprott and Agnes Kinnaird.
William Sprot 14 April 1725 parents William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Helen Sprot 23 October 1727 parents William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Margaret Sprot 13 March 1730 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
John Sprot 19 December 1732 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Thomas Sprot 2 November 1735 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Margaret Sprot 27 March 1743 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
James Sprot 25 February 1739 Parents John Sprot and Marion Sprot.
MARRIAGES AT TEMPLE
William Sprot married Janet Walker 23 August 1723.Janet's father was John Walker.
Helen Sprot married William Robinson 14 August 1747.
Ann Sprott married James Henry 22 March 1752.
Mary Sprott married James Brockie 31 January 1762.
Rebecka Sprott married William Taitt 20 December 1767.
Rebeckah Sprott married Robert Marchell 18 May 1770.
NEWTON
At Newton there is the birth of Janet Wallker born 8 November 1699 parents John Wallker and Heallen Hoge.
INVERESK AND MUSSELBURGH
Janet Walker 8 January 1882 parents John Walker and Grisel Spindie.
Janet Walker 27 October 1895 parents John Walker and Margaret Sinclair .
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Hi Archie - wonder if you can help me. My G Grandfather James Bryce's birth in 1849 was registered in Temple. His father Adam was listed in Braidwood, Parish of Temple, in the 1841 census. Adam's father James b 1780 was born in Eight Mile Burn, Parish of Penicuik to James and Janet Veitch. After the birth of James in 1780 there are no other records of the parents. Wondered if you might have something on them in Temple.
Thanks in advance for any info. I have enjoyed looking at your photos and reading your info.
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Hi Jbryce,
PENICUIK
It seems that James and Adam are twins and perhaps Janet passed away after the birth, that is if the James mentioned is the same father of John, if I am correct then that is why you are unable to trace them any further.
I would think that James 1880 is the father of James 1815.
I have checked the whole county for James and Janet Veitch but this all I can find on them, one entry.
Below you will see I have put something in about the Veitch families
I can send you all the other Bryce families if you want ?, please let me know.
I don’t have any burials at Temple for either Bryce or Veitch, records from 1888 – 1996, I have more work to do on this when I have time.
Best regards.
Archie.
PENICUIK
John Bryce born 18 December 1775 parents James Bryce and Janet Veitch.
James Bryce 1 November 1780 father James Bryce no mothers name.
Adam Bryce 1 November 1780 father James Bryce no mothers name.
James Bryce 7 May 1815 parents James Bryce and Margaret Scott, this couple seem to appear in Lasswade below.
TEMPLE
James Bryce born 4 March 1849 parents Adam Bryce and Mary Erskine
STOBHILL
James Bryce born 28 January 1874 parents James Bryce and Agnes McIntosh
LASSWADE
Adam Bryce born 20 July 1823 parents James Bryce and Margaret Scott
George Bryce born 8 May 1827 parents James Bryce and Margaret Scott
TOTAL ABSTINENCE SOCIETY
Robert Veich Treasurer
The Ship William Stevenson
Sailed from Liverpool to Adelaide 7 November 1854
PASSENGERS
Euphemia Veich 14 yrs old Servant Penicuik with parents no mention of the parents name unless they are Adam and Mary below.
Adam Veich 42 yrs old Agricuktural Labourer Penicuik
Mary Reid Wife 39 yrs Robert Veich son 12 yrs Betsy/Elizabeth Veich 9 yrs daughter Agnes Veich 6 yrs daughter WilliamVeich 3 yrs son
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Hi Archie,
Many thanks for that info. I would greatly appreciate any assistance you can give me.
I am researching my husband's line and Margaret Sprott DOB 1743 is his 4 x great grandmother. I am however interested in what happened to her siblings.
Best regards
Karolyn
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Hi Karolyn,
Thanks for your mail, unfortunately I don't have the OPR's or Census for any of the areas in Midlothian, these would help us better to trace the family, I could guess as to who they are but that would be unfair to both of us, especially you.
One thing for certain is that they did leave Temple as the Sprotts were no longer mentioned in any births or marriages other than what we have here below.
Best regards.
Archie.
It would seem that Margaret Sprot born 1730 perhaps died and the second Margaret born 1743 was named after her.
CHRISTENINGS AT TEMPLE
William Sprot 14 April 1725 parents William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Helen Sprot 23 October 1727 parents William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Margaret Sprot 13 March 1730 Perhaps deceased William Sprott and Janet Walker.
John Sprot 19 December 1732 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Thomas Sprot 2 November 1735 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
Margaret Sprot 27 March 1743 William Sprott and Janet Walker.
MARRIAGES AT TEMPLE
William Sprot married Janet Walker 20 September 1723.
Helen Sprot married William Robinson 14 August 1747.
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Archie thank you so much. Yes, James and Adam were twins and John is an older brother. Their father James was the only James Bryce in the Penicuik area at that time. I've checked the LDS film for Penicuik. All the other Bryces you mention are my direct line except for James b 1874 in Stobhill (perhaps he was a cousin). You've given me something to work on with the Veitches. Thanks again.
-
Archie - have you heard of the Bryce Collection of photographs held at the Midlothian Council and Loanhead Library? They were donated by the descendants of George Bryce b 1827 (in your message) who ran the post office in Roslin for some time. The post office was run by various family members until well into the 1900s. The photos were taken on glass plates and have very interesting scenes of Roslin and neighbouring areas, including the chapel, from before 1900 to 1920s. Attaching family photo with George (with the white beard) and Adam (my GG grandfather) and their daughters and granddaughter. Julie
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HI JBryce,
thanks a lot for the photo it is fantastic, you can see they are brothers and that that the ladies are related, it's in the eyes.
The next time I go to Loanhead I will ask Ken to let me see what they have.
If I can help in any other way just let me know.
Best regards.
Archie
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Hi Archie - Thanks for all your info. I replied to your personal message but I'm not sure I got it right. I will sift thro the names you sent me and get back to you. Julie
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Hi Julie
Do you have a David Bryce, architect/builder in your tree. My g.grandfather, Robert Smith, architect of Gorebridge worked with a David Bryce and wondered if there is a photograph of him?
Best Regards
Roy
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Hello from Tasmania .. Do you have any grave details for a George Wilson & Alison Mann of Stobbs Farm Temple George was a farmer b circa 1806 & wife Alison Mann would very much appreciate as they vanished after 1841 census so I am not even sure where they were born
regards lesley in Tasmanian
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G'Day Lesley,
sorry to inform you but they are not on my records or the old burial book, many people dodged the Census man for some reason, however, I will try and dig further into them, Stobbs was not a big village, it only had a handfull of cottages. The Gunpowder Mill which would be near them had a few explosions, this would have affected the farm animals a great deal, perhaps George had taken all he could and just moved on.
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
You appear to be a remarkable resource. I noticed mention of a Ramage family in your thread and have been searching unsuccessfully for information on David Paterson and wife Eliza Ramage. They are parents of my ggrandmother Margaret Dickison. The Dickison family appear on the 1851 census at Mauldslie farm. They were married at Pennicuick in 1844 and their 6 children were born between 1845 and 1856 around Temple Village area. In 1859 they emigrated to New Zealand to manage Lord Buccleuch's estate in Otago. Any evidence/trace of the family you can find would be most appreciated.
Regards,
Anne
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Hi Anne,
thank you for contacting me, I have some names for you regarding both Paterson and Ramage, I hope the ones you are looking for are here if not then I am sorry. I have based them being born around the 1800 mark thinking they may have been around 24 or there abouts when they were married and in their early forties when their children were married. I have also attached a photo of the farm at Mauldslie for you.
May I ask where you live please ( Area ) not full address.
Take care.
Best regards.
Archie.
RAMAGE
PENICUICK
Elizabeth Ramage born 2 Feb 1759 Parents William Ramage and Elizabeth Hall.
LYNE AND MEGGET PEEPLESHIRE
Elisabeth Ramadge baptised 30 June 1805 Parents John Ramadge and Elisabeth Blacklaw.
TEMPLE
PATERSON
Robert Paterson born 2 Nov 1809, David Paterson Born 31 Jan 1815 Parents James Paterson and Frances Sutherland.
David Paterson baptised 29 Aug 1779 Parents James Paterson and Grizel Clerk.
CRICHTON
David Paterson baptised 5 Dec 1816 Parents John Paterson and Margaret McLeod.
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Dear Archie,
What a thrill to receive the photo of Maudslie farm! Thank you so much. Do you think that "Pig Knolls" (where they lived at the farm) is what it sounds like? A grassy rise where they kept the pigs?
Also, thank you for the suggestions for David Paterson and Eliza Ramage. I had not considered the other spelling of Ramage so that may help me. I found a death for Elisabeth Paterson at Traquair in 1821 so Margaret might have been orphaned at birth.
I am puzzled and frustrated by not being able to find christenings for the Dickison children. Do you know of a gap in OPR records at that time? (Eliza 1845, Isabella, 1846/47, John 1848/49, David 1852, Margaret 1854)
I wonder if I can get a photo of Damhead farm (Traquair), another Dickison/Ferguson location, from the same web site?
Finally, I was born and raised in New Zealand but have lived in Florida for many years.
Thank you so much,
Anne
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Hello Archie,
I'm doing research regarding my 5xGreat Grandfather John Calder who passed away in Temple Village on October 12, 1874. I came across your excellent thread a little while back and saw that my newly found cousin John B. Calder had already asked you about our common ancester. Unfortunately his original question seems to have gotten lost in all the other posts. I'd be grateful if you could provide any information at all regarding John Calder's 1874 burial in Temple Village.
Thank you also for posting that photo of Maulslie Farm. Funny enough my 4xGreat Grandfather (John Calder's son) William Lowrie Calder was listed as residing at Maulslie Stable in the 1841 census.
Cheers!
Scott from Toronto
Hi Archie:
My great-great-great-grandfather, John Calder, died in Temple village on Oct. 12, 1874. His wife, Agnes Linton, died in Middlemills, Lasswade in 1882. Do you have any record of their burial in the Temple village burial ground?
Thank you!
John
Cambridge, Ontario
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Hello Archie,
I've found some more children so my research on the WEST family continues.
William WEST married Catharine McKENZIE on 28 Jul 1804 in Edinburgh parish.
Seems both died before 1841 census. ???
Children:
Joseph b. 30 Apr 1805 Temple possibly died 1879 Dalkeith
William b. 30 Sep 1807 Temple d. ? possibly before 1841
?
Mary b. abt 1816 ? Temple ? d. 1879 St George - married Robert HUNTER 19 Nov 1836 Temple
George b. abt 1817 Temple ? d. 10 Mar 1880 Temple - married Grace HORNE 19 May 1837 Temple
?
Eliza b. abt 1824 ? Temple ? d. 15 Jun 1853 St Cuthbert's - married Alexander MUNRO 14 Jun 1850
Please see if you can find the births of Mary, George and Eliza in Temple and possibly other children in the gaps. And other WEST marriages in Temple of possible children of William & Catharine. Thanks.
Regards,
Fred
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Hello Archie,
I only found you sight by accident, hope you are still there.
I am from Catherine West born 1838 and travelled to Sydney with her sister Elizabeth on the Admiral Lyons she arrived here 15th September 1857 they were Housemaids from Edinburgh.
You certainly filled in a lot of spaces for me.
Do you want to know anything more about Catherine she married James Sands 5th November 1867.
I am from their line.
sandsofife.
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Hello Archie,
I only found you sight by accident, hope you are still there.
I am from Catherine West born 1838 and travelled to Sydney with her sister Elizabeth on the Admiral Lyons she arrived here 15th September 1857 they were Housemaids from Edinburgh.
You certainly filled in a lot of spaces for me.
Do you want to know anything more about Catherine she married James Sands 5th November 1867.
I am from their line.
sandsofife.
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Hi Fred and torryburn,
yes please send me any details on the family in Australia, it's really wonderful knowing that the family has expanded way over the big pond, they were really Pioneers, I wonder what hardships they had to endure in those times, Australia is such a beautiful country and yet so young I have only been to Brisbane but have a nephew in Sydney.
Fred I will see what I can do regarding your quest, please give me a little time.
Regards.
Archie.
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Thanks Archie.
Regards,
Fred
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If I gave you these before I am sorry, I will look at Census returns but as far as deaths go the only place is Scotlands People site, a bit costly if you get things wrong.
Cheers.
Archie.
TEMPLE VILLAGE
BIRTHS
Joseph West Born 30 April 1805 – William West Born 30 Sept 1807.
Parents William West and Catherine McKenzie.
Elizabeth West Born 3 Feb 1849 – Grace West Born 12 Feb 1842 –
William West Born 7 Feb 1844 – Ann West Born 16 Sept 1847.
Parents George West and Grace Horne.
George West Born 16 July 1867 – Parent Anne West.
MARRIAGES
Mary West and Robert Hunter 19 Nov 1836. ( Also mentioned at Newbattle ),
George West and Grace Horne 19 May 1837. ( Also mentioned in Borthwick Church ).
BORTHWICK VILLAGE
BIRTHS
Mary West Born 11 March 1838 – Catherine West Born 11 March 1838 ( Twins )
Joseph West Born 1 Nov 1851 - Parents George West and Grace Horn.
MARRIAGES
Mary West and Robert H. Trench 24 Aug 1855.
Joseph West and Margaret Ferguson 16 June 1843.
STOBHILL VILLAGE
BIRTHS
Margaret West Born 19 May 1872 – Grace West Born 7 May 1874.
Parents Joseph West and Margaret Shedden.
LIBERTON ( EDINBUURGH )
MARRIAGES
Anne West and William Kerr 3 Nov 1858.
Have you considered the spelling ( Vast ) I have come across it a few times ?.
From the Headstone
Erected by G & J West in memory of their brother William who
died 15th November 1869 aged 25 years, Margaret daughter of the
above J. West died 22nd January 1875 aged 2 ½ years. Their Father
George died 10th March 1880 aged 62 Years. Their Mother Grace
Horne died 9th September 1885 aged 65 years. The above Grace
West died 5th July 1896 aged 56 years. Also the above Joseph West
died 5th December 1898 aged 47 years. Margaret Sheddon Wife of
the above Joseph West died 6th December 1926 aged 86 years.
Charles Sheddon Father in Law of the above Joseph West died 9th
April 1880 aged 78 years. William Walker Husband of the above
Grace West died 2nd November 1895 aged 75 years.
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much.
A few of those we did before re George & Grace. We did go through the MI before as well.
Pity but it seems the only two that can be found are the two in IGI, Joseph 1805 and William 1807. I was hoping other siblings could be found but we are out of luck.
Thanks for the details of the other location for some of the marriages.
I have used SP and yes, it's possible to use the credits up very quickly.
I've not searched using VAST yet.
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
sorry I can't come up with the goods, here is some information from the Census records.
Cheers.
Archie.
1841 Census for Temple Parish.
Address Upper part of Gorebridge
Georg West born 1816 Trade: Cooper Journeyman age 25
Grace West born 1814 age 27 born Kirkcaldy, Fife
Catharine West born 1838 age 3
Margt West born 1838 age 3
Eliza West born 1840 age 1
George Clerk 26
Borthwick Parish.
Address Clay House
William Sinclair 60 ( I can only think that these are relatives ).
William Sinclair 32
John Sinclair 28
Fanny Sinclair 20
John Spevin 7
George West 4
1851 Census
Borthwick Parish
Address Village of Clay House
12 Clayhouses
Geo West age 36
Grace West age 36 born Kirkcaldy, Fife
Catharine West age 13
Mary West age 13
Eliza West age 11
Grace West age 9
William West age 7
Anne West age 3
1861 Census
Bortwick Parish
Address Arniston Inn
George West 45
Grace West 45 born Kirkcaldy, Fife
Amey West 43 ( down as daughter the age is wrong, I think this is Mary ).
Joseph West 9
Alexander Treanch 3 ( Trench )
1871 Census
Address
Stobhill Village
George West 56
Grace West 56 born Kirkcaldy, Fife
Joseph West 22 ( Stone Mason )
Alexr Trench 14 born 1857 Grandson ( Coal Miner )
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much.
Amey West 43 ( down as daughter the age is wrong, I think this is Mary ).
I think that is Annie aged 13.
I've seen Grace listed as born in Kirkcaldy and Inverkeithing, more often as the former.
I have a copy of Grace's death certificate and neither parent is listed.
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
I have tried Scotland's People but came up with nothing of course they did not have to register births in those days, I base Grace being around 22 when she married so perhaps born around 1815, however, I tried the 1841 Census for Fife and found the family below.
There is a Grace horn born around the time your Grace was married, I tried most of Fife and this is the only family with a Grace in it, these may be relations but I leave it up to you to decide.
We will get there, it may take some time but I feel we can do it.
Cheers.
Archie.
1841 Census.
Address: Masters Place - Dunfermline
Name Age
George Horn 45 born 1796 Fife Cotton Worker
Ann Horn 45 born 1796 Fife
Agness Horn 19 born 1822 Fife
George Horn 17 born 1824 Fife Linen Worker
Alex Horn 15 born 1826 Fife Linen Worker
Margret Horn 11 born 1830 Fife
Mary Horn 9 born 1832 Fife
Grace Horn 5 born 1836 Fife
Andrew Horn 3 born 1838 Fife
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Hello Archie,
Thank you very much.
The name appears as HORN and HORNE and I noticed some in Scoonie. A family with a daughter named Grace could well be related.
I've been trying to 'guess' parents based on the naming pattern of the children but having twins daughters makes it difficult. Also, I'm not 100% sure we have all of George & Grace's children anyway.
It could be a brick wall.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred and Dorothy,
I don't know if I gave you these details or not ( Below ), these are the 9 members of the family all in the same plot at Temple.
I have also attached a Map of the area from 1854 showing where the Gunpowder mill was and Clay house where the West's lived,notice to the right of Clay House there is a Magazine for the Mill, this was blown up and a man called Cornwall was killed there, he is buried in Temple ground just past the gate as you enter on the left.
Cheers.
Archie.
It seem George's father William died a very young man, strange why his wife is not named in the burial book, she may have moved back to Edinburgh when he died.
William West aged 25 yrs died 15 Nov 1869.
Margaret West aged 2 1/2 yrs 22 Jan 1875.
George West aged 62 yrs died 10 March 1880.
Charles Sheddon aged 78 yrs died 9 April 1880.
Grace Horne aged 65 yrs died9 Sept 1885.
William Walker aged 75 died 2 Nov 1895.
Grace Walker West aged 56 died at Clay House 5 July 1896.
Joseph West aged 47 died at Edinburgh 5 Dec 1898.
Margaret Sheddon aged 86 died at Edinburgh 6 Dec 1926.
-
Hello Archie,
Thank you very much.
The old map is interesting.
I don't have William or Catherine's death.
We did go through the headstone inscription previously trying to sort out some dates that were in doubt.
The William who died in 1869 is the son of George. He was born on 7 Feb 1844 Temple ?
The Tombstone of George West and Grace Horn Temple Midlothian in Edinburgh.
Erected by G & J WEST
In loving memory of their brother WILLIAM he died 1st November 1869 aged 25 years.
So it looks like we have missed another one. So it's 15th not 1st of November?
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
thanks for correcting me regarding William yes the date in the old burial book says 15th not the 1st of course that could be a mistake by whoever wrote it in, I tried Scotland's people, he is there but I have no more credits left, you will have to do that yourself. Just check " Midlothian " then " Temple " for the year there are two boxes just put in both 1869 and it will come up, unfortunately it just gives the year not the date you will see that on the form.
Cheers.
Archie.
-
Hello Archie,
Thanks.
That part of the headstone is not worn much and it has 1st so there is an error somewhere.
Yes, I will be getting more credits this month because of the increase.
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
when you get the cert of the death can you please pass on the date to me, the only thing I can think of is the date in the book is the possibly the burial date, but why take so long to bury him, perhaps a Post- Mortem or due to the weather.
Some facts about those gone by days, the people had Windows Tax, Clock and Watches Tax Hearth Tax Horse Tax and Cart Tax, and we think we are hard done to today.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hello Archie.
Oh, so many taxes. :o
A bit of a puzzle. And another one. Again the headstone says 16th:
Erected by G & J WEST
MARGARET SHEDDEN wife of the above J. WEST died 16th December 1926 aged 86 years.
1926 WEST MARGARET PEAT SHEDDEN F 86 CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0405
That's two to get.
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
you have the dates and that's Ok, let me try and find my notebook tomorrow and double check I have not made a mistake regarding the day of death, I am off to bed now it's nearly 2.00am.
Cheers.
Archie.
-
Hello Archie,
The two in doubt:
1869 WEST WILLIAM M 25 TEMPLE /MIDLOTHIAN 700/00 0021
I can confirm the death certificate and headstone have 1st Nov 1869.
and
1926 WEST MARGARET PEAT SHEDDEN F 86 CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0405
I can confirm the death certificate and headstone have 16th Dec 1926.
Regards,
Fred
-
Hi Fred,
thanks for the info, I have checked my notes and what I sent corresponds with what was in the book, the burial book was not kept properly in fact a mess, it states that it starts from 1888 yet the earliest in it is 1800, I will update my records with the proper dates you have given me.
Many thanks again.
Regards.
Archie.
-
You are welcome, Archie.
Regards,
Fred
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Hi all:
This is my first posting. I have family records from about 1787 to 1924 of my Stewart and Drysdale ancestors who lived in the Temple/Carrington area for at least that period. At various times relatives lived at Toxside, Fountainside, Fountainside Limeworks, "Side", Braidwood Cottages, Braidwood Farm, Temple proper on the main street (two up from the schoolmaster's house), Carrington Mills and various dwellings in Carrington and even in Carrington Barns (sorry great-great grandma).
Other family names in the area: Baillie, Tait, Brown, Pringle. My Lanark family names include: Sommerville, Shaw, Russell, Dickson, Brownlee, Telfer, Watson, Waugh, Dalzell, Baillie and Forrest.
[Archie: What is the status of the "wall repairs" in the Temple Kirkyard. Have they re-emplaced the Drysdale tombstone?]
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Hi TempleDrysdale,
I was down at the old Church last Sunday showing people around, sadly the wall is still down and the Drysdale stone along with the others are still lying down on the ground, they are not damaged but I think this supposed rebuild of the wall is going to be a marathon.
Visitors are supposed to be able to look at the 12th century stone that was discovered but can't, it is covered to try and preserve it, in my mind Historic Scotland can't be bothered and neither can the Midlothian Council.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie:
Thanks for the uipdate.
I wonder who has he authority to put the stone back in place and what it would cost to have it tipped back-up?
Can you post up a picture?
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
I never took any photos when I was there and I won't be back for a while as I am busy doing other things, the Council should chase the chap who owns the wall but as we know local councils are like Snails.
There is no point in raising the stone until the wall is rebuilt, once that is done the chap will raise all the stones up himself, so I am afraid we are in Limbo at the moment regarding this.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
wondering if you have any mention of Shiel family? Locations I have are Outerston and Halkerston nearer Borthwick but may have been linked with Temple?
Thanks
Duncan
-
Hi Duncan,
These are dates they were baptised, WILLIAM SHIEL 03 JUN 1823 - ISABEL SHIEL 05 JUN 1825 - GEORGE SHIEL 07 OCT 1827 Temple parents GEORGE SHIEL and ALISON KNOX sometimes as Know.
These are all proper Birth dates MARGARET SHIEL 24 JUN 1850 Borthwick - GEORGE SHIEL 15 APR 1854 Borthwick parents WILLIAM SHIEL and ALISON DICKSON.
GEORGE SHEIL 01 SEP 1853 Borthwick parents GEORGE SHEIL and AGNES NEILSON.
I am afraid there are none of them buried at Temple.
I will get back to you on Sunday as it's 1.35 am here.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi again Duncan,
ISOBELL SHEILL married CHARLES CRAIGE 24 OCT 1695 at Temple.
WILLIAM SHIELS married MARGARET LYELL 29 APR 1743 at Temple.
MARY SHIEL married JAMES HUNTER 05 JUN 1840 at Temple.
GEORGE SHEIL married AGNES BURN 11 AUG 1774 at Borthwick.
WILLIAM SHEIL married ALISON DICKSON 14 MAY 1847 at Borthwick.
MARY SHIELL married JAMES IRVINE 11 DEC 1840 at Borthwick.
JAMES SHIELLS married HELEN RUTHERFORD 16 DEC 1836 at Borthwick.
ANN SHIELL married JAMES YOUNG 29 MAY 1855 at Borthwick
Cheers.
Archie.
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hi Archie well I must say that is a brilliant map you have put on here as it was my 5x GGrandfather Richard Cornwall who was blown up at the Mill. It is great to be able to see now where places were in relation to where he died.
Are they planning on lifting any of the headstones at the old kirkyard in Temple ?? I really hope so because one of my Cornwall's headstone is lying down at the back of the kirkyard behind the church which we saw when I took my dad there last year when he visited from Australia
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
glad you liked it and I hope it helped you find them without any problem, sad to say that the Midlothian Council will not re-erect the stones, I have asked them many times and nearly causing a battle in the office, they say that written permission must be granted by the family and the cost would be put on to the family.
I asked the Council if I went down with my three sons to re-erect them would that be Ok sadly they said no it would not, I wanted to start a project for the kids in the village through the school to adopt so many stones each, my plan was to plant flowers at each of the headstones, some of the villagers said no it would not be Ok, I thought it would not only add colour to the site but also in remembrance to those lying there.
I have as you can see put up a map and placed an arrow pointing at the Mill.
If I can help you with anything please get in touch.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Dear Archie,
I am keen to trace my paternal grandfather's "roots". He was George THOMSON, born 17th May 1856 at Esperston (a farm?), where his father was a ploughman. From your records and researches can you give me more information on THOMSON'S in Temple and district?
I should be very grateful.
Sincerely,
DJT
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Hi JDT,
I have nothing on your grandfather at all, I have Thomsons who were married to the Tait family who ran Temple Farm or at least worked there, as far as I know they were Tenant Farmers leasing Farms from the Dundas Estate.
It would seem that your Thomsons did work at Temple farm according to 1861 Census and lived there so George's father must have moved down towards the village, they lived in what was called the Temple Farm Hind's House.
The Family are : James Thomson aged 39 and born around 1822 at Ancrum, Roxburgh he is down as a Farm Servant, his wife is Elisabeth born 1818 at Peebles, Mary Thomson daughter born 1847 at Temple, Hannah Thomson daughter born 1849 at Temple, Elisabeth daughter born 1854 at Temple then your grandfather George.
As George's father was a Ploughman he would be much sought after if he was a good one, in this case I think he would nave been, at times though Ploughmen were down as Farm Servants and their trade was not properly revealed.
Here is what I have on your family the Thomson burials also a photo of the Headstone.:
On the stone it reads :
Thomas Thomson died October 1852 aged 1 years 6 months,
William Thomson died February 1861 aged 2 years 6 months,
Mary Thomson died 19th August 1864 aged 18 years. John Gunn
who died 6th March 1878 aged 32 years. John T Thomson died 24th
December 1878 aged 34 years. James Thomson died 30th May 1883
aged 34 years. Hannah Thomson or Gunn died 31st October 1885
aged 36 years. Elizabeth Tait or Thomson died 29th January 1890
aged 72 years. James Thomson late of Temple Farm died 15th
August 1894 aged 73 years.
Sorry about the condition of the stone, as you see it is covered by Lichen which is against the Law to remove.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Thank you very much, Archie for prompt reply and photo. Your info ties in very well with a little info I already have but adds to it very helpfully on origins of James THOMSON and Elizabeth TAIT, my great grandparents.
My grandfather, George THOMSON, became a Headmaster in Glasgow and he, his mother and father, and sisters Hannah and Elizabeth are buried in Cathcart cemetery. The record there describes James as a Land Steward, (by anecdote - for the Pringles). Does that seem right to you?
I am quite new to this. Can you tell me please, are Esperston and Temple Hind farm near to each other? I imagine James moved about a bit for available work, a better position, and to support the growing family.
Another family anecdote which is interesting is that there was some kind of accident - with a cart or carriage- near to the gate of Arniston House, which had serious consequences for the family. Dates and persons involved are unknown. I wondered about 1878, the year of death of two youngish men (30+) on the gravestone, John T Thomson and his brother-in-law John Gunn. Do you have the Death Certificates ?
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Hi Jean,
the Tait's were well known Farmers in the area and seemed to be quite a large clan as were the Pringle's, a Pringle was the Farmer at Temple Farm in the 1940's and earlier.
The Hind House your ancestors lived in was actually on Temple Farm and not in the Village as such, the Farm originally was at the beginning of Temple Village but for some reason was moved about 1/8 of a mile outside the Village and still going see Map attached.
I have no idea about the accident, there are three main gates to Arniston House, the first is just over the Gore Bridge to the right the other two are on the road to Temple Village, the first of these take you right up to the front door but the next one is always locked for some reason and is called Beech Drive.
The only possibility is that the Horse may have bolted for some reason, on that road there are a few bends so it may have happened after passing the second gate.
I am sorry but I don't have any death certificates regarding any individual at Temple or surrounding areas you will have to go on to Scotland's People for that.
If you live in Scotland or England call the Loanhead study Centre, Dr. Ken Bogle is in charge and a really nice lad, he or his staff will help you, this is the site.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/MLN/LocalStudies.html
Or Call Gorebridge Library again the staff there are really nice and will help the site is below.
http://www.midlothian.gov.uk/directory_record/1530/gorebridge_library
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hello again, Archie
Thank you very much for information given and advice about further sources. Hopefully, I shall try to follow them up soon.
One or two more questions, though:-
1. Why is it illegal to try to remove moss and lichen which makes a Headstone near illegible?
2. The eldest son, John T THOMSON, born in 1844, is not listed on the 1861 Census with his family at Temple Farm Hind's House. Presumably, at 17, he was working elsewhere. Does the 1861 Census for Temple Parish show where he was?
3. I have been reading previous postings and see what you mean about the many TAITS in the area (replies 45/46). However, I'm not sure great grandma Elizabeth H THOMSON (nee TAIT), b. Peebles, 1818, was a local woman. Similarly, her husband, James THOMSON, b. 1821/2 at Ancrum, Roxburgh, sounds as if he may have moved to Temple for work. Do you have Births, Marriages, Burials records of any other THOMSONS in the area who may be relatives?
Thank you again,
DJT
PS - I see a William THOMSON, Carter, probably caused the terrible gunpowder explosion on February 17th 1825 at Stobbs Mill!
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hi all :)
DJT - your 1st question was of interest to me
i did a bit of checking and it looks like 26 species of lichen and 33 other species(including mosses) are currently protected by British Statute
it is illegal to disturb either the lichens or their habitat
ev
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Hi DJT,
sorry for the delay in getting back but I never got notification you had answered my post which is unusual.
I have in the 1861 Census John T Thomson living at Stow and his birth year is the same as you gave me 1844 but it states he was born in Tranent East Lothian he is down as being a Millwright Apprentice. H e is living with a load of Thomson's down there.
As regards to Lichen and Moss should anyone in many years from now wish to date the stone they can do this analyzing the Lichen and Moss, however, if you own the stone and want to clean it then you must ask the authorities and get permission.
I will get back to you regarding the other Thomson's at Temple as there are many, please remember it is Temple Parish and does not mean that they were all born or married in the village, Temple Parish took in a great area.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Do you have the name of DRYSDALE and or DODS/DODDS in your records, please?
If so, I can provide further details.
Minniehaha
New Zealand.
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Hi minniehaha,
sorry but no Dodds recorded at Temple burial ground, however I do have Drysdale's and if these 3 entry's are relations to you then you have a cousin in Canada, here goes.
I have a photo of this stone but it is hard to read now due to the Lichen and weathering I was lucky catching it in time.
To the memory of William Falkner who died at Toxside --- March
1799 aged 61 years, also his Spouse Agnes Drysdale who died May
28th 1793 aged 43 years, also their Daughter Isabella who died
November 22nd ---- aged 14 years.
I have a photo of this one.
Alexander Drysdale who died 1st March 1818 aged 75 years, Isabella
Miller his Spouse died 19th August 1836 aged 72 years, Isabella
Drysdale his Daughter died 6th December 1842 aged 49 years,
Alexander Drysdale Grandson of above who died 14th June 1893
aged 74 years, Margaret Richardson his Wife died 6th February
1909 aged 68 years, Robert Drysdale their Son died in Infancy.
They are in Plot 34 on the old plan number 7 on my one.
The final one is.
William Drysdale no date of burial given, Alexander Drysdale aged 74 died at Carrington burial 16 June 1893 Margaret Drysdale aged 68 died at Carrington burial 9 February 1909, I assume this is his wife.
They are in Plot 56 on the old plan I don't have a number on my plan as there is no headstone, they are buried next to John Craig the Outerston Farmer.
Can you send the details please of the Dodd's family it's always handy.
If you require the photos please tell me and I will post them.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thank you for such an informative response.
I have a Mary Drysdale born 23.6.1823 @ Prettyrent, Temple to James Drysdale and Mary Brown. In the 1841 Carrington census, Mary and 7 siblings together with the aforementioned parents are living @ Carrington Mill.
In the 1851 Carrington census, we still have a William (50), brother, James (58), Head and various younger members of the Drysdale family still living @ Carrington Mill.
I don't know if Carrington Mill is in the area of Temple.
I suspect that the names in the final part of your message may be mine.
Mary Drysdale b. 1823 as above, married my great-great-grandfather Alexander Dods/Dodds @ Edgelaw in 1840.
All the Edgelaw Dods/Dodds are mine.
Thank you so much for your help.
Minniehaha.
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Hi minniehaha,
I am lead to believe that the Drysdale's built the Mill.
Temple
Births. 1855- 1875
Drysdales at Temple
Isabella Jane Brown Drysdale born at Temple 29th May 1858 Mother Jane Drysdale
( No father mentioned. )
Mary Drysdale born at Temple 5th December 1858 Mother Isabella Drysdale ( No father mentioned.
Alexander Drysdale or Ritchardson born Temple the 20th June 1863. also James Drysdale or Ritchardson born at Temple the 31st May 1865, also Margaret Drysdale or Ritchardson born Temple the 6th June 1867. Father Alexander Drysdale and Mother Margaret Ritchardson. ( Were they married or not )
John Drysdale born Temple the 6th August 1869. Mother Annie Drysdale.
I have attached part of a Map for you showing the location as you can see there the Mill a fair distance from Carrington Village.
I have also attached the House that the Drysdale family lived in, it is located nearly half way up Temple Village, the village was started in 1760 the cottage to the right as you look at the photo was built in 1760 the first Cottage.
I will post more photos of the Mill for you after this.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Many, many thanks for all the information sent concerning the Drysdales and Carrington Mill. Very informative and much appreciated. It has enabled me to put "flesh on bones". The photographs are a wonderful bonus.
Minniehaha. New Zealand.
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Hi minniehaha,
many thanks for your kind words they mean a lot to us on this site, I have been helped many times by our large family on this site.
Take care.
Archie. ;)
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Hello,
Would you have any information on the following surname, Scot/Scott. dating from c. 1766 to 1841
James Scot, and Christian Chambers, were married at Manor, Peebles in 1766, moving to Temple c. 1770. Their children were as follows.
Marion born in Manor, Peebleshire. Baptised 28/6/1767 in Manor.
James born in Manor, Peebles. Baptised 26/2/ 1769 in Manor.
Helen b. Temple, Midlothian Baptised 23/3/1773
William b. Temple, Midlothian Baptised 23/11/1776
Andrew, b. Temple, Midlothian (my 3xg.grandfather) Baptised 1/9/1778
Margaret b. Temple, Midlothian. Baptised 10/4/1781
Robert b. Gladhouse, Midlothian. Baptised 30/6/1782
I believe I have found the gravestone for Christian, her husband, James, and son, William aged 13 yrs; they are buried at Eddlestone Churchyard. James Scot snr. was born at Leadburn.
However, apart from my 3xg.grandfather, Andrew Scott, who was a weaver by trade, and moved to Lasswade, I do not know what became of the rest of the family, there maybe a possibility that some of them could be buried in Temple Churchyard . I would be grateful if you could check your records. Many thanks.
Regards,
Jane
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Hi Jane,
this is all I have on the Scot - Scott family names buried at Temple I am not sure if these are the dates of death or burial dates, however, further down I have names from headstones and photos if you require them, I hope that one or two at least may be your kin.
Regards.
Archie.
William Scott died aged 43 at Dundas Cottages 9 Aug 1895.
.
Jessie Scott aged 43 Yorkston 12 Dec 1922.
Logan Scott aged 10 Edinburgh 20 Sept 1932 Do you know if any married in to the Tait family ?.
Thomas Scott 68 Temple 21 Sept 1903.
Thomas Scott ( No age given ) Arniston No dates given.
Janet Scott 14 Outerston Hill 18 Aug 1910.
Below inscriptions from the headstones.
37) Jessie Middlemass Wife of Charles Scott died 8th December 1922,
also their son Logan died 18th September 1932.
40) Erected by Thomas Scot. Arniston to the memory of his deceased
Children, Andrew Scot who died July 24th 1801 aged 6 years,
Alexander Scot who died March 25th 1801 aged 1 year, also Agnes
Scot who died – 1813.
103) Ann Scott Wife of George Bruce died at Fountainside 24th
September 1931 aged 71 years.
( Small Thin Stone Broken )
141) Thomas Scott born 1801 died 1887, he was a faithful Servant to the
family of Dundas.
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Hi Archie,
Many thanks for looking up the Scot/Scott names. Unfortunately the families do not match any of my Scott lines. Thank you again for your help.
Regards,
Jane
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Hi Archie,
Many thanks for looking up the Scot/Scott names. Unfortunately the families do not match any of my Scott lines. Thank you again for your help.
Regards,
Jane
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Hi Archie and Minihaha:
Mary Drysdale would be a sister of Alexander Drysdale, my Great-great-Grandfather. It is interesting that Alexander appears on the grave stone at one site, but seems to be buried with his uncle William Drysdale (or brother?) in another. Ditto for wife Margaret.
It seems when Mary Brown's father died she may have been the only surviving child and inherited about 500 pounds. The time sequence points to the inheritance going to build the mill. James Brown, Mary's father, was a grocer and feed merchant in Temple village. He seems to have moved there from Lasswade, but may have been born Borthwick.
When Mary Brown's Father's will is on scotlandspeople. So is Mary Brown's husband's (James Drysdale). When James died he was a fairly substantial farmer at Fountainside and operated lime kilns in the vicinity (there are a number of ruined lime kilns that can be seen nearby).
I have not established a link between Agnes Drysdale of Toxside and my line, but she may be clue as to why my GGGG Grandfather Alexander Drysdale ended up in the Temple area sometime after about 1803. (He came from Clackmannanshire - where many many Drysdales can be found.)
I have lots of discussions on the Temple Village website forums.
Below is a picture of the mill house and Temple village.
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HI Archie:
I have a pretty good paper trail showing I am a descendant of the Drysdale's buried or remembered in the Temple Kirkyard. Is there any way I could affect the raising of the tipped down stone? My daughter will be up in Edinburgh in late May.
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HI Archie:
One more from me. Thanks to the 1911 census and the 1915 property listings, it is quite clear that my Great-Grandfather James Stewart/Drysdale lived in the big house at Braidwood Farm from at least 1911 to 1924 and appears to have been a tenant farmer (annual rent 160 pounds paid to Earl Rosebury).
Any idea where their may be archived pictures of Braidwood Farm from the early 1900's?
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Hi Archie:
Alexander Drysdale was a Carter and he and his cart seemed to get around a lot. From the censuses it seems he lived with his father James Drysdale until he was at least 50, but he did eventually get around to marrying Margaret Richardson who was living at the Braidwood cottages. At some point there were three illegitimate granddaughters living in the James Drysdale household.
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Hi TempleDrysdale,
thank you very much for all this wonderful information regarding your Drysdale ancestors, as for archived photos of the Farm I doubt if there are any but I could ask the family for you.
The headstone was laid flat due to the boundary wall being in the state of collapse, I complained to the authorities fearing the headstones would be damaged, they eventually told the man who owns the old Manse to take the wall down for safety.
He will put all the headstones back once the wall is completed, I think he wants to make sure that the foundations are secure, one good thing that came out of it is, when the wall was taken down they found a 12 century Knight Templar grave slap and another with just a Cross on it which was probably a Monks stone, the latter I believe is in the Edinburgh Museum.
I wondered about the two plots regarding the Drysdales, at first I thought he had bought two plots as there is no information to who is buried outside the Church, the one outside the Church I thought he may have bought it to sell the ground on again at a later date, but thanks to you I now know better.
The Plots being 34 and 56 on the old burial map.
I had no idea that Braidwood Farm was under the Earl of Rosebury I thought it was Dundas so another lesson learned.
I have a few photos of the Mill concerned especially inside, do you have these ? if not I can post them unfortunately a few years back the people who own it now stored Hay in the Mill, sadly the interior was badly burnt due to spontaneous combustion which they had never thought of happening.
Are you Davis.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Dear Archie,
I wondered if you could have a look in your Temple burial records for one David HERRIOT. Born 1768 in Newbattle he is recorded in the 1841 census as living in Temple, and in 1851 census living at Templemills, Temple as a Labourer (Pauper) and widower aged 83. Can't find him in civil records so assume he died between 1851 and 1854.
His wife was Agnes who presume died before 1841. No idea where.
He is my husband's many times g-grandfather.
Do you know anything about Templemills? We are planning to come up to Scotland and be in the area in July.
Thank you.
Kate
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Hi Kate,
sorry but they are not on my records if he was born at Lasswade there is a good possibility he was buried there, they normally done this it was if as if they were going home or back to their roots so to speak.
Have you any idea what her maiden name was ?, as stated in other parts of this topic the burial records were very poorly kept forTemple Village.
I have a David Herriot at Temple born 1776 b Midlothian Scotland aged 65 years an Agricultural Labourer, with looking at this he worked on one of the farms either within Temple Village or just outside it.
Temple was a big Parish in those days, there is an old Mill Ruin in Temple but I doubt if it was there he worked however, when you Say Templemills this springs to mind it was in fact the Gunpowder Mills he worked at or a nearby Farm these were at that time situated at Stobbs which was in the Parish of Temple.
Look at thread number 11 there is a map I posted showing where the Mill is.
Sorry I could not help you.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thanks so much for having a look for me. Her maiden name was Agnes Romans and she was born in Borthwick in 1775. I have the burial index transcribed by the Lothians Family History Society and she is not in there.
I've sent off for the burial index for Newbattle parish so fingers crossed.
Btw I had another look at the 1851 census at who else was living at Templemills and there are 5 households and 3 of them are described as paupers and the other 2 retired/not working ("lately laundress" and "lately housemaid").
So I wonder if it was either a row of very modest cottages or some kind of small poor house?
Kate
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Hi Kate,
if he died at Templemills the nearest Church was the United Presbyterian Church, as far as living in a Cottage it would have been a really basic dwelling due to being a Pauper, now when he died he would probably have been buried in a Paupers ground with no headstone. Although I said he could have gone home to Newbattle he may not have not unless family took care of it.
We might be looking at David in the wrong way, as his age in 1851 is 83 he probably stopped working and now without a wage is declared a Pauper, no pensions in those days poor souls, many in those days worked on until they no longer had the energy.
Newbattle formally Newbottle means " New Place " the name was given by the Cistercian Monks who built the Abbey in 1140.
I notice his parents were John Herriot and Anne Johnston there is a John Herriot in the 1851 Census at North Middleton but it states he was born at Cranston 1773 could this be his brother he is aged 78.
There is also a Robert Herriot 1775 and John Herriot 1773.
This is a good Site : http://www.scan.org.uk/familyhistory/myancestor/pauper.htm
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie
I am very interested in the burial records for Temple Churchyard. I have visited the site several times. I know from his Death Certificate that John Wilson was buried there in 1860, his wife Barbara Scott (ms Scott) died in 1879 at Temple Mill. I suspect that there are other members of the Wilson and Scott families also buried in the churchyard. Hope you can be of help.
Best Wishes
Gavin Thomson
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Hi Gavin,
I have some by the name of John Wilson but not the one you are looking for and there is no Barbara Scott, however, here are the transcriptions that are on the headstones I have recorded, I have also checked the old burial book, this does not mean that there was no headstone for John and Barbara many have been destroyed over the years.
The information you gave me on them especially Barbara dying at the Mill do you know what John did for a living please, I collate the information I get for the history of the area for instance was the Mill working then.
Another point is was it at the old Mill actually in Temple Village she died or was it at Stobbs which is further up the road, this is situated just up from Newtongrange another mix up could be at Carrington Mill which is sometimes put down as Temple as it was in the Temple Parish, the final one is there was a Wood Mill at Arniston again in Temple Parish.
Please let me know if they are related to you or not, if they are I can attach the photos of the Headstones for you.
Erected by John Wilson Portioner, Temple in memory of his Son
Robert Wilson died 16th January 1802 aged 9 Months, also David
Wilson died 26th September 1811 aged 21 years, Mary Baillie his
Spouse died 30th May 1826 aged 71 years, also John Wilson died 21st
February -----.
Erected by John Wilson, Baker Temple in memory of his three
children who all died March 1844, Jane Wilson aged 11 months.
John Wilson aged 3 Years 1 Month and Mary Wilson aged 1 Year 9
Months.
( Inside Church at South Wall )
John Wilson born 11th October 1831 died 11th May 1871. Elizabeth
his eldest Daughter Wife of R.H. Nisbet born 27th May 1860 died
7th August 1888 at Miners Mills Pennsylvania, also, Violet Fairgrieve
Douglas Wife of the above John Wilson died at Musselburgh 23rd
November 1911 in his 82nd year. Also, Lewis Douglas youngest son
of above John Wilson born 7th January 1858 died 23rd January
1933, Interred in Willesdon Cemetery London.
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Hi Archie
Thank you for that. I have checked the headstones in the churchyard the only Wilson which I found from our family was that of Agnes Wilson who was John and Barbara's granddaughter. She was married to a George Pringle, their daughter Agnes is also on this stone. The stone itself was a small flat stone located roughly beween lairs 45-49, it appeared that it may have been attached to a larger stone which had been destroyed - could this have been the vicinity of a Wilson lair if one existed? I visited the churchyard last week and discovered that the spot where this stone had been is now covered with rubble, I do hope that the stone was moved prior to the wall coming down.
Unfortunately none of the John Wilson's you refer to are related to us. The Temple Mill referred to is indeed that of Temple Village. Barbara Wilson is recorded there in both the 1861 and 1871 census, I do not know if it was a working mill at that time there is no reference to there being millers resident or even any males of working age. Could it be possible that it was being used as a poor house for the elderly/infirm?
John Wilson himself was born at Crichton in 1786, his occupation is usually given as a Farm Servant or a Labourer. He appears to have moved around the farms of Temple and Borthwick Parishes. I believe that the Thomas Scott who erected a headstone to his children in the churchyard was Barbara's father - there is also an impressive headstone to one of her brothers erected by the Dundas family.
I had hoped that the burial book may have revealed the burial spots for John and Barbara however on reflection it is most likely that they received Paupers Burials. Are there references to a James Wilson who died in 1863 or his wife Isabella (ms Anderson) who died in 1886 being in the churchyard?
Regards
Gavin
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Hi Gavin,
I am sorry but there is nothing on any of them, the burials seem to have been very badly documented many being left out, there are 18 matches for Midlothian on scotland's people but none for Temple, these are 1 for Cockpen 1 for Heriot the rest are Edinburgh.
There are some broken headstones in the Old Manse garden, at one point I believe this was part of the cemetery as well but not sure when that stopped, when I first started going around the cemetery there were about 5 broken stones two I wish I had recorded but the 2 years later they had crumbled to dust.
I have come across in the old book a Lair No 186 with the name Wilson and that is all I wonder if that could be them, but on the old Plan it is not there 186 is not marked down only 185, this is situated on the high ground and far right as the wall slopes down I have marked it with an arrow( See attached ).
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Templar:
I wonder what the background is that the Drysdale's were able to acquire burial plots in Thee Temple Churchyard in th mid-1800's. Were old plots covered over? Was this a fundraising exercise for the new church across the road?
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Hi Archie,
Thank you for your kind offer. If it is still open, can you give me details of families named Sandilands if any? I know they were in the Midlothian area.
Many thanks.
Best wishes.
Liz
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Hi Liz,
it would help if you could give me dates please that would help in some way of tracking them down, however, I have Sandilands in the Temple Parish area and these are the ones I have come across.
George Sandilands married to Helen Baillie there is no marriage for them in this Parish so this will have to be found later, their children are as follows.
Margaret Sandilands born Temple 1738 no date given she was Christened 1 October 1738
Helen Sandilands born June 1743 no actual day is given she was Christened 12 June 1743
Agnes Sandilands born Temple 1745 no date given she was Christened 3 June 1745.
Regards.
Archie.
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I'm descended from a number of families with Temple connections; my 4 x gr grandfather JAMES PRINGLE and his descendents had HUNTLY COT FARM in Temple Parish; his son, my 3 x great uncle William, and his descendents had TEMPLE FARM.
JAMES PRINGLE, who was originally from Heriot, married ELISABETH RAMAGE, the daughter of RICHARD RAMAGE, the shepherd in Outerston, and his wife, my 5 x great grandmother MARY MURRAY.
MARY MURRAY died in 1799 aged 34, indicating a birth year around 1765, and is buried in Temple churchyard. WILLIAM PRINGLE and his family are also buried in Temple churchyard.
I'm trying to establish whether my 5 x great grandmother MARY MURRAY is the same MARY MURRAY who was the daughter of JAMES MURRAY and HELEN CALDERWOOD and was born in Tweedsmuir in 1765.
There are a number of facts and coincidences which indicate that my MARY MURRAY, buried in Temple, and the one born in Tweedsmuir are one and the same but I have no concrete evidence of this and am very keen to find some in order that I can confirm parts of my family tree.
MARY MURRAY from Tweedsmuir's parents, JAMES MURRAY AND HELEN CALDERWOOD never married. I can find no record of HELEN CALDERWOOD or her daughter MARY MURRAY in the Tweedsmuir area after the baptismal entry made in 1765.
In 1779, in Temple, a HELEN CALDERWOOD married ROBERT STIRLING. This may be a coincidence but if this is the same HELEN CALDERWOOD who previously had a daughter, MARY MURRAY, with JAMES MURRAY in Tweedsmuir this might explain my Mary's presence in the Temple area and her subsequent marriage to RICHARD RAMAGE.
I don't think that the family name MURRAY was a common one in the Temple area which could also indicate my Mary having moved there from another area.
HELEN CALDERWOOD and ROBERT STIRLING had a daughter, Alison, who married ROBERT HERRIOT in 1802.
MARY MURRAY and RICHARD RAMAGE'S grandaughter, MARY PRINGLE, daughter of JAMES PRINGLE and ELISABETH RAMAGE, married a JOHN HERRIOT a few generations later, possibly indicating previous links between the families.
ELISABETH RAMAGE died at TEMPLE FARM in 1895, aged 97, however I have no idea where she is buried. I certainly didn't find any evidence of her possible burial there when I searched Temple churchyard last year.
I'm also keen to establish the parentage of my 4 x great grandfather JAMES PRINGLE of HUNTLY COT FARM, who was born in HERIOT, I believe, around 1788. I'm hoping someone might be able to enlighten me.
Any info on any of my ancestors would be most welcome.
Many Thanks,
Craig Mitchell
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Hi Craig,
James Pringle born July 1788 no actual day given, Christened 9 July 1788 at Herriot by Crookston Midlothain, Parents were John Pringle and Janet Lees.
John Pringle and Janet Lees were married at the same place above on 27 August 1780.
Unfortunately there is no burial record for Elisabeth Ramage are you definitely sure she was buried there, but there again the records were poorly kept.
As I have mentioned earlier on this site there are a few stones that have not survived either badly damaged or just rotted away.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thanks very much for your speedy response to my request for info!
Elisabeth may well not have been buried at Temple but she definately died at Temple Farm; I have a copy of the Statutory Death Entry, reported by her son William Pringle who was the farmer at Temple Farm at the time. His own family stone in the churchyard at Temple is still intact.
Thanks also for the info on James Pringle's parents. I had thought previously, by a process of elimination, that they might be his parents but had no proof of this. Unfortunately, I neglected to keep notes as to where I sourced my info from a lot of the time so am not sure where I found this initially.
You wouldn't happen to know who John Pringle's parents were would you or where I might be able to find out?
As to my trying to confirm Mary Murray's parentage.....something that may interest you having noted your own background re the Knights Templars etc.... if I can prove that Mary Murray is indeed the daughter of Helen Calderwood and James Murray in Tweedsmuir then I have almost categorical proof that she is descended from a number of families with Templar or Crusader connections such as the St Clair's of Rosslyn (and me too!!)....for instance, she'd be a 16 x great grandaughter of Sir William St Clair of Rosslyn who died at the Battle of Teba.
Thanks Archie,
Craig
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Hi Craig,
I don't know if you could read the stone as sometimes the sunlight can make them unreadable, anyway this is what is on the stone :
Mary Murray Spouse to Richard Ramage, then Shepherd in Outerston died 3rd May 1799 aged 34 years. so she was a very young woman.
I would imagine that Elisabeth is buried beside her husband or perhaps her father, however, I have as you will see below added all the Pringles I have at Temple burial ground.
George Pringle died 13th June 1909 aged 58 years, his Wife Agnes
Wilson died 17 April 1911 aged 58 years, their Daughter Agnes died
6th March 1926 aged 42 years.
MURRAY : In case they are related to you.
In memory of Andrew Murray who died 5th January 1841 aged 71
years, also Mary Melrose his Wife who died – September –
Jonathan Murray their Son died 11th March 1857 aged 9 years.
Janet Craig Spouse to William Pringle, Wright in Temple died 10th
February 1810 aged 58 years, also Jean Pringle their daughter
Spouse to James Smith who died 15th June 1824 aged 32 years, also
the above William Pringle died August 6th 1828 aged 79 years.
William Pringle Farmer Temple Farm died 8th August 1917 aged 76
years, his wife Jessie Turner died 30th March 1920 aged 76 years.
Their eldest son Thomas James Pringle Husband of Jane Duncan
died at Temple Farm 19th February 1941 aged 63 years. The above
Jane Duncan died at Temple Farm 30th January 1949 aged 70
years, their third son John Pringle Farmer Huntlycot died at
Eddleston 17th October 1952 aged 69 years.
If you don't have photos of the headstones I can send them to you ?.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thanks once again for taking the trouble to send me info, I'm very grateful!
Thanks also for the photos offer but I managed to take a few pics of the Mary Murray and William Pringle headstones when I was there last year (my very first visit to Temple) .....they are definately my family....the other Murrays I don't think are related in any way... but thanks anyway!
Interesting re the William Pringle you mentioned who was a wright in Temple (husband of Janet Craig)....my Pringle ancestors who had the Temple and Huntlycot farms originally had a cartwrights business based in Heriot.....I think the coming of the railways caused a decline in business and their subsequent move into farming. Not sure if this William is related in any way though.
My search for the definitive proof of Mary Murray's parentage continues!!!
Best Wishes,
Craig
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Hi Archie,
I am sorry I did not get back to you sooner to say thank you for your response to my request for details on families named Sandilands. Your response and willingness to help further was appreciated.
Unfortunately, I dont have the time to continue with my research on Sandilands. I therefore will leave it for now and get back to you when I have more time available.
Best wishes.
Liz
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Hi Liz,
I am sorry I could not help you further but I have been very busy doing other things and not had the time, I wish you all the best and some day you will be able to trace them, it all takes time.
Best Regards.
Archie.
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HI Templar:
Last night I tried to track down more about the Agnes Drysdale and William Falkner referred to in your reply #113 above.
There are plenty of Scotlandpeople records to show the life of William and Agnes in Temple. I have tracked Agnes's birth, her marriage to William, their several children and their deaths. Their deaths correspond to the tombstone inscription you report. However the odd things are the discrepancies on the tombstone. The scotlandspeople records consistently spell Falkner as Falconer. Moreover Agnes is consistently named as Agnes Liddle/Liddel. No mention of Drysdale. About that time there were a fair number of Liddels living near Temple, they seem to be centred a Espertoun (farm?). When Willaim and Agnes died they were each actually at Tweedleburn or Tweeddale Burn, near Toxside Burn.
It is hard to figure how Agnes Liddle became Agnes Drysdale on the tombstone. She died before William, so I do not suppose she remarried at an old age. Is there some mix up with Tweeddale and Drysdale? Is Liddel somehow tied to Liddesdale with some connection therefore to Dryfesdale?
(I came across a James Liddel that is reported to be buried at Clerkington Old Graveyard. He was a witness from time to other register entries in that era.)
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To correct the above entry. It was James Lawson buried in the old churchyard in Clerkington. He was likely a child as he had the 2 pound mort cloth for Children. He died at Cranston. The entry appears on the same page (p. 269) as the entry for "Agnes Liddle" She was buried on June 1st, 1793 in Temple Churchyard.
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Dear Archie
I am interested in Temple village cemetery. My ancesters (Proudfoot) lived in Temple and I think a lot of them will be burried in this cemetery. I see you have a copy of all the gravestones etc, can you help me
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Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with my family history?
My ancestors were from temple, my father is John Beattie my grandad was John Beattie and my great grandfather was William Beattie. My grandads brother is buried in temple churchyard he was Edward Beattie. Any information would be much appreciated
Thanks David Beattie
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Hi and welcome to everyone who has posted here on RC for the first time :)
Looks like Archie must be busy at present as he does not look to have been online here on RC since mid July.
Hopefully he will post back soon.
Monica
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Dear Friends,
I am sorry to have missed your posts this is due to me not receiving any notifications from RootsChat, however here are my findings for those inquiring about their ancestors.
Dear brownfam.
I am sorry but there are no entry's for " Proudfoot " in the books or my records or photographs, this does not mean they are not there just that they are not recorded. Are there any other names they are linked to if there is then they could be buried beside them. Please let me know.
Dear David,
other than Edward Beattie I am sorry but there are no others of that name recorded, can you please tell me of other areas they may have lived in. I have attached a photo of the headstone in case you do not have one. Please keep in touch.
I am sorry not to have been off help to you both and I know it is a bit frustrating for you, I was visiting there last Sunday with my Knights and due to the new wall being built they have uncovered a gravestone that was buried, this is fantastic for me and helping with my records, the best of it the engraving is as clear as it was when new.
Dear Monica,
I am sorry about this but as I have said I never had any notification, I have checked the relevant part and I should be getting them, anyway these things can and do happen and always will no matter how good the site is.
Best Regards.
Archie.
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Thanks Archie...knew you wouldn't be too far away ;)
Have to say sometimes lack of notifications happens and I don't know why, as I am sometimes too affected by this. I tend to react to either a notification or whenever I log on, I also click on the 'Show new replies to your posts' link at the top. Either/or seems to do it!
Monica
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Hi Archie
Thank you for getting back to me. Looking at my family tree I think that one of the proudfoots was born in Temple but moved away. Have you any record of Appalina Connolly born approx 1850. She was married to Walter Brown born approx 1851 Census shows that they stayed in Temple 1901 so possible they are in were buried in Temple graveyard. I have also been looking for my grandfather Robert Brown who died 24th Jan 1950. He lived in Newtongrange but possible buried with his parents. Would be great if you can help as I have came to a stop with regards to my fathers side of the family
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Hi brownfam,
There are no Proudfoot's I can see buried in Temple but that is not to say they are not there, however, Temple was a big Parish and they may not be actually in the Temple Village Burial Ground, this is what I have found on Proudfoot if you have these already then I am sorry.
MARRIAGE
James Proudfoot married Isabella Lawson 10 May 1834.
BIRTHS
George b 29 Aug 1835 - William b 3 April 1837 - James b 26 March 1841 - Elizabeth b 11 Oct 1843 - John b 23 July 1846 - parents James Proudfoot and Isabell Lawson
OTHER PROUDFOOT
BIRTH
Duncan McLean Proudfoot b 28 Dec 1857 parents James Proudfoot and Isabella McLean.
There are some by the name of Connolly but no A[[alina do you want this list of names.
Best Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie
Thank you for your help, I have some of the info you gave me but I did not have dates so I will be able to update my tree. Applina or something like that lived in Temple with her husband Walter Brown. I have come to a complete standstill with my grandfather Robert Brown and great grandfather Walter Johnston Brown. No more of my family stayed in Temple apart from them. Thank you again
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Archie thanks for your reply, I shall get back to you with more information soon, my dad has birth certificates for his father and probably his grandfather too, thanks again
David Beattie.
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Hi, I'm new here. My family (mainly my father) has been researching our family tree for years.
I noticed the headstone of my Wilson family (John Wilson and Mary Baillie) was posted and I am trying to see if I can find any more information or possible distant relatives.
My third great Grandfather was William Wilson (a Master Mason of Oxford PA) came to the US in 1852 from Temple.
His parents were John Wilson and Charlotte Blackadder.
John's parents were John Wilson and Mary Baillie. We believe this John's parents might be another John Wilson and another Baillie (spooners of Winton) but we are not 100% sure.
If anyone has any information on this Wilson family, think they might be related or can point me in some direction, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Mike
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cheviot123
Gavin,
Your Wilson could connects to ours somewhere. Ours lived at Temple Mills also but moved to the United States in 1852. Please respond so we can possibly compare notes.
Thank you,
Mike Wilson
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Hi Craig, I happened to come across your message enquiring about the parents of Mary Murray who married Richard Ramage. My family connection is with Mary and not directly with Richard. Mary's parents were Helen Calderwood and James Murray. James' parents were John Murray and Margaret Laidlaw. My mother is a Murray connected to Mary Murray.
Cheers, Alison
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Sorry folks but I never recieved any notification for the recent posts here.
The Wilson and Baillie families were gypsies but well off ones, the first recording for Wilson that I have is David Wilson a Horn and Spoon Maker he built a house in Temple Village in 1784, he was related to Thomas Wilson who was a Grocer, another Spoon Maker was John Wilson who also built a house in the Village he was a relation to David.
John Wilson who married Mary Baillie died at the Mill he was a Portioner ( Owner of land, previously divided amongst co-heirs )
The Wilson and Baillie families were not only Spoon Makers but they traded in Horses they had Pubs and Inns.
Adam and Alexander Wilson ( Brothers ) became very wealthy when they rented Esperston Quarry from 1833 till 1878.
In 1838 a Thomas Wilson purchased a house from Robert Dundas ( Landowner ) Thomas was off the gypsy family and was a Mason to trade. his residence became an Inn, Public House and Grocers Shop, these were all running until 1855 when it became solely a Licensed Grocer.
Thomas Wilson was very wealthy and at one time he owned eleven houses in the Village, his son ( No name ) became a very successful Tailor in London
Following the 'Disruption' of the Church of Scotland (1843), and subsequent establishment of the Free Church of Scotland, a new 'Free' Church was built in 1844 (Tradoch Hall). A year later a new 'Free' Church School was built behind the Church but this was closed around 1865. Therefore during 1845 - 1865 there were two schools operating in the village.
The once peaceful little Village became split as great one time neighbours refused to talk to each other, children were no longer allowed to play with their friends.
Cheers.
Archie
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alisonbcd
Hi Alison,
Thanks for your message!
I've sent a reply to your mailbox which I hope you'll be able to access. I'll be very happy if you have any more info about Mary Murray and Helen Calderwood and their time in Temple.
Cheers
Craig
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Hi Archie,
What wonderful work you have done here.
This is a slim hope but my gt gt grandfather JAMES HARPER was born in Carrington c1820, according to all censuses, but I have not been able to find his birth or who his parents were. I wondered whether you have come across any HARPERS in this area.
Thanking you in advance.
Best wishes,
Meg
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Hi Meg
Did James Harper die before 1855? From 1851 (sure you have this but may help others). All the children below born in Cleish, Kinrossshire:
James Harper 30, Forrester b. Carrington
Hannah Harper 30 b. Inveresk, Midlothian
Hannah Harper 7 b. Cleish, kinrossshire
James Harper 5
Jane Harper 4
John Harper 2
Thomas Harper 4 Months
Address: West Mains, Cleish
Nothing on his death cert that might help you?
Monica :)
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Thanks for your reply, Monica.
There was no information on his death certificate even though his son was the informant.
Part of my problem is that James was already in Cleish in 1841, although he did marry in Lasswade in 1842.
The traditional naming pattern isn't obvious either as Hannah's parents were James and Hannah too! It could indicate John and Jane but who knows!
Best wishes,
Meg
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There are a couple of Dobie families showing on IGI as having children in Inveresk in the right time period:
James Dobie and Anne Whitelaw
Thomas Dobie and Isabel Williamson
https://familysearch.org/
Did you get a maiden name for Agnes from her death certificate?
Monica
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It's James' parents and birth I'm stuck with; I know Hannah's parents.
Meg
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I thought you had :) So what were their names? This might help with establishing possible names for James' parents.
Monica
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The traditional naming pattern isn't obvious either as Hannah's parents were James and Hannah too! It could indicate John and Jane but who knows!
As I said above they could be John and Jane; Hannah's parents are James Dob(b)ie and Hannah Dob(b)ie ms York.
Meg
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Hi Meg,
I have James Harper born at Temple 7 June 1830 parents are William Harper and Margaret Denholm.
They also had :
Marion 2 Jan 1823
Andrew 22 July 1825
Elisabeth 14 Nov 1827
Margaret 14 Nov 1827 ( Twins )
Cheers.
Archie.
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Thanks very much for that, Archie.
Not "my" James but perhaps a connection.
Best wishes,
Meg
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Hi Meg,
I got these off Scotlands People I put in dates from 1815 to 1825 and this is all that came up.
1 10/10/1819 HARPER JAMES parents WILLIAM HARPER/CHRISTIAN RONALDSON FR3420 M INVERESK AND MUSSELBURGH /MIDLOTHIAN 689/00 0100 0384
2 12/04/1825 HARPER JAMES JAMES HARPER/ELIZABETH GIBSON FR1584 M STOW /MIDLOTHIAN 699/00 0050
Archie.
-
1 10/10/1819 HARPER JAMES parents WILLIAM HARPER/CHRISTIAN RONALDSON FR3420 M INVERESK AND MUSSELBURGH /MIDLOTHIAN 689/00 0100 0384
This one is the obvious one but James is with them in the 1841census and my James is already in Cleish.
2 12/04/1825 HARPER JAMES JAMES HARPER/ELIZABETH GIBSON FR1584 M STOW /MIDLOTHIAN 699/00 0050
This could be him but he is consistent about his date of birth being 1819 -1821.
Perhaps it will have to remain a mystery.
Thanks again,
Meg
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Hi Meg,
I have come across variations in dates of birth on Census readings doing my family tree, some were between 5 and 10 years younger and really threw me off for ages. He certainly was not recorded at Carrington perhaps he was never Christened.
The possibility is his parents had what they call an Irregular Marriage and this is why they don't show up plus being born before it was legal to record births and marriages.
Archie.
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Yes I've had a few like that! But James is consistent, even on his daughter's 1855 birth certificate.
I have considered that he might be Free Church; some of his children were baptised at an Associate (burgher) church. I have checked Dalkeith Free church records at NAS but there was nothing there. Are there others in the area which I might try?
Best wishes,
Meg
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Hi Meg,
none that I know of, Temple had a Free Church but that was short lived however the records would have been I think kept at Dalkeith
Try this Meg this is the link to the local study center Dr. Ken Bogle is in charge he might be able to help you trace James. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/MLN/LocalStudies.html
Cheers.
Archie.
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Thanks very much for the link, Archie.
I'll do as you suggest.
Best wishes,
Meg
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Archie,
Just to let you know that I had a reply from Ken Bogle. Unfortunately it was disappointing in that he could find no further information on James.
Back to the drawing board!
Best wishes,
Meg
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Hi Meg,
thanks for telling me I am really sorry he could not be off help, sometimes the kids took their place or country of birth from the father so perhaps the father was born in Carrington, I still go for the parents having an Irregular marriage.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie
I am staying with a family in New Zealand one of whose ancestors was born in Temple in 1808. His name as far as we know is John Anderson but I cant find a birth for him on FindMyPast :-\. Could you tell me if there is anything in the parish records which might help with this mystery. The next thing that is known is that he married a Helen Murray in Dumfriesshire. As families tended not to move far during that era generally I presume it was for work. Are there any Andersons buried in Temple Churchyard?
Regards
Dee
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Hi Dee,
The only john Anderson I see born at Temple is 1745 could this be the one ?, the only male Anderson I have on record is a Albert Edward Anderson 5 years old 5-11-1907, is there anything else I can go on regarding names for instance the fathers name and the mothers maiden name.
Cheers.
Archie. :-\ :-\
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...and one of whose ancestors was born in Temple in 1808. His name as far as we know is John Anderson but I cant find a birth for him on FindMyPast :-\.
Hi Dee
Not surprising you are not finding anything on FindMyPast as they do not have these Scottish records. The main Scottish info they really have are the transcripts of the Scottish censuses for 1841-1901.
The only place to check on official records is the official pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (SP). For this period, what you will be looking at will be entries from the Old Parish Registers (OPRs) as official registration didn't start in Scotland until 1855.
The other useful (free) source for info would be the indexes on https://familysearch.org/#start They are very helpful for first searches of Scottish records but there are limitations and they are not complete. I can't see John's birth or christening entry showing there, however, there is an entry showing on SP for a John born/christened in Temple in 1808, parents a John Anderson and mother a Betty Wilson. You can view an image online on SP for a small fee. Just be aware that entries on the OPRs very often only have minimal info, unlike statutory entries after the start of official registration in 1855.
Monica
Added: At least 9 children show for John Anderson and Betty/Elisabeth Wilson who married in 1801 in Borthwick, see some index entries here - link shortened from familysearch - http://tinyurl.com/d8xkdkp Looks like connected family to link up with here http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=12437&p=surnames.anderson
-
info from S,P had some credits left
.
1
05/06/1808
ANDERSON
JOHN
JOHN ANDERSON/BETTY WILSON FR2165 (FR2165)
M
TEMPLE
/MIDLOTHIAN
700/00 0020 0115
john dowling
p.s there are still a lot of wilson and anderson that stay in bonnyrigg very close to temple
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That is great, John :) All info always helps!
Monica
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Thats fabulous. Will have to do some further research now. You have given us some good ideas.
Dee :)
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Do you have any photos or information on the Finlayson family stones? They would have been there pre 1700-1900. I would be forever thankful for any information you could pass along.
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I wonder if there may be any record of a burial of a James Blake (possibly spelt Bleak) in the graveyard at Temple.
Born about 1795 and married to a Jane Brodie of Innerleithen in 1820. At time of the 1841 Census, he was living with his wife and 3 children at Braidwood Bank, and described as a grazier (in other records referred to as a cattle dealer) . His son Adam married in Temple in 1848, so the family were probably there at that time. I have not found James in the 1851 Census.
Kind Regards
Morris
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Hi Morris,
the only Blake I have is a Minister and his family, I tried a search on Scotlands People 1840 till 1880 and found one but the wife is off a different name, this James Bleak died in Peebleshire. You do have the correct names ?.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie
Thanks. The wife, Jane Blake ms Brodie is the correct name. She died in 1859 in Temple. Their son Adam, as the informant at his second marriage in 1878, also gives his mother's maiden name.
Jane Blake ms Brodie was widowed but still living in Temple at Braidwood Bank in the 1851 Census. That's why I thought James might be buried in Temple between 1841 and 1851.
The other possibility is that, as both James Blake and Jane Brodie were originally from families in Innerleithen, the Blakes may have had a plot there.
Thanks again for checking
Regards
Morris
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Hi Morris,
thank you, yes there was the old tradition that they would be buried where they came from, I have tried again but his name is still not coming up I have tried Blake, Bleak, Bleake and still nothing. The only thing I can think of is the records were damaged and unreadable plus the records for Temple are terrible, there is a possibility that he is buried there.
However, I have found Jane and she died on the 13 April 1859 and is buried at Borthwick just up the road from Temple on the A68 road ( This came under Temple Parish ), her son- in - law was a James Affleck, now there is a chance that James is buried there as well.
On further searching I have a James Black who died at Temple in 1856 and was a Ploughman at Yorkston Farm he was aged 42 his parents were James Black and Christine Hare, but his wife is not Jane could she have had another Christian name, ?, there is a huge age gap she is much older than him but this was normal in those days.
If you send me your email address privately I will send on the death records to you.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie, I am very impressed with your knowledge of the Temple area, one of my ancesters John Cranston married Mary Dick in 1764 in Borthwick. John's parents were John Cranston and Alison Clark, there is a marriage in Borthwick in1712 for John Cranstoun and Alison Clark, there are births and a death for Cranstoun before 1721 but after 1725 births and deaths in the name of Cranston, my problem is are they all the same family, the three burials in Temple from the burial records are
Janet Cranstone jun1719. unnamed Cranston child nov1726 and Thomas Cranston sep1728 all give father's name as John. It would be great if you could shed some light on this and if there are any gravestones in any name variant of Cranston. thank you very much
regards
donald
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Hi Donald,
unfortunately there are no stones in Temple burial ground for your ancestors, you have stated that they are buried in Temple I suppose that's what it has on the records you have, this is misleading. What you will find is they are possibly buried in Borthwick and Bortwick comes under the Parish of Temple, the Parish was vast.
If you don't live locally contact Dr. Ken Bogle at the Loanhead study centre via email he may be able to help you, this centre is also the home of the Recording Angels who may have covered the Borthwick Church.
Sorry for not being very helpful.
Best Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie, Thank you for your speedy reply
regards
donald
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Hi Archie:
Good to catch up on the goings on on this site. You seem to mention "working on the wall" sometime last year. I am hoping to hear if "the" Drysdale Tombstone has been reserected. It pains me to think it has been laying in the dirt now since 2009!
The Drysdales seem to disappear from the Temple Census for 1861. However, James Drysdale and his extended family were indeed there. Although not noted in the census index, I found them in the actual census records residing in the house next to the schoolhouse. I believe this is a house once occupied by James Brown his father-in-law and it seems James D. and family moved there after being at Carrington Mill in 1851. Alexander, the oldest son, later lives at the same location with his family. James is listed as a "contractor", several sons are "carters".
Hope you are keeping well.
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The second son of James Drysdale named James Drysdale married a Isabella Johnstone in 1856 in Edinburgh. At that time, he was a ploughman living at St. Clemments (sic?) hall in Musselburgh. I have later leaned he emigrated to New Zealand, but was a widower by then according to my source.
James is listed as being 26. I have a birth record for him for 1822. So something does not add up.
There is no mistake on the names of his parents James Drysdale and Mary Brown. James (the father) is listed as Mill Proprietor. (Likely still at Carrrington Mills.)
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Hi Archie,
First post to this site which I came across as I researched the story around my 6x grandfather Richard Cornwall who was killed in 1825 in the Hitchener and Hunter Gunpowder factory explosion.
My understanding is that Richard came up from England in 1794 to join the business alongside his wife Mary Cornwall (Knight). I have been very grateful to see the commemorative headstone erected in his memory. His daughter Elizabeth married my 5X Grandfather Thomas Gray.
I have two questions which I am hoping you may be able to shed some light on.
(1) I cannot find a death record on Scotland's People for Richard Cornwall. Is it possible that as there was very little left of him after the explosion that death could not be certified i.e. no body to certify as dead? Any other reason you can think of?
(2) I am finding it hard to come by much information on Thomas Gray other than he was born in Dalkeith around 1791 and that he was an army pensioner, as well as working in a tile works and as a general labourer. He appears to be a army pensioner by the time he marries Elizabeth in Borthwick on 15/08/1823. Are you able to shed any light?
Many thanks in advance,
Brett Wells
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Hi Brett,
I would have thought the death would be down as " Death by Explosion " but you could be correct that there was nothing to find, but there are various factors we look at the Crown at the time around 1797 increased the costs of registering B.M.D. so many people did not register them, then of course damage of some kind where they are unreadable and Fire.
All born in Dalkeith.
Thomas Gray, I think below is Thomas and his family but please let me know if I am wrong.
Euphan Gray born 9 March 1786 - Isobel Gray born 7 June 1789 - Thomas Gray born 17 Sept 1792 - Andrew born 19 March 1794 - Ann Gray born 1795 - Margaret Gray born 21 June 1799 - John Gray born 2 June 1801 - Robert Gray born 18 July 1802.
If he was an Army Pensioner you would need to know the Regiment, when he joined and Army number.
Best regards.
Archie.
Parents : Andrew Gray and Margaret Allen married 2 July 1784 at Dalkeith.
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Hi Brett,
I would have thought the death would be down as " Death by Explosion " but you could be correct that there was nothing to find, but there are various factors we look at the Crown at the time around 1797 increased the costs of registering B.M.D. so many people did not register them, then of course damage of some kind where they are unreadable and Fire.
All born in Dalkeith.
Thomas Gray, I think below is Thomas and his family but please let me know if I am wrong.
Euphan Gray born 9 March 1786 - Isobel Gray born 7 June 1789 - Thomas Gray born 17 Sept 1792 - Andrew born 19 March 1794 - Ann Gray born 1795 - Margaret Gray born 21 June 1799 - John Gray born 2 June 1801 - Robert Gray born 18 July 1802.
If he was an Army Pensioner you would need to know the Regiment, when he joined and Army number.
Best regards.
Archie.
Parents : Andrew Gray and Margaret Allen married 2 July 1784 at Dalkeith.
Hi Archie, thanks for this. It appears that there is a little more of a mystery around Thomas Gray. I have a confirmed death certificate in 1885 for Thomas (died Dalkeith) which is signed by his son Richard Gray of 41 Lochend Road, Leith which lists his parents as Lewis Gray (Valet) and Charlotte Strachan. I can find no record of either of these anywhere - birth / marriage / death. Clearly no record of Thomas Gray having been born to them too.
I had found the birth entry you mention but the death cert has thrown me.
Regards,
Brett
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Hi Brett,
what made you think he was born in Dalkeith please.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Brett,
what made you think he was born in Dalkeith please.
Regards.
Archie.
Hi Archie,
Some other family information which appears may be incorrect. Since last night I've found what appears to be Thomas Gray and his wife Elizabeth in the Census records and they suggest Haddington as his place of birth and Gorebridge as hers.
I can't find any trace of him being born in Haddington on the online sites I've checked so far though.
Regards,
Brett
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Hi Brett,
any idea what Elizabeth's maiden name was.
What I found when doing my tree was a lot of my ancestors said they were born in Ireland when in fact it was the father or both parents that were born there, the children were born in East Lothian, so it could be the for you. Somewhere down the line they have stated where the father was born and they were born miles away.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Yes, Elizabeth's maiden name was Cornwall. She was one of the daughters of the aforementioned Richard Cornwall and Mary Jane Knight.
Regards,
Brett
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Hi,
Do you have any photos or information on the Cossar family stones? I am currently researching this family.
Thanks,
Sandi
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Thomas Gray was born 1791 in Haddenham, Haddington, East Lothian. He served with the 2nd Dragoons, Royal Artillery from 1809 to 1821. Thomas married Elizabeth Cornwall, 15 Aug 1823 in Borthwick. He died 1885, aged 94 at Youngs Close, Dalkeith.
Thomas Gray was my ggg grandfather.
Cheers, Alison
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Hi sandi, Sorry for the delay as I have been busy doing other work.
Erected in memory of Archibald Cossar who died at Carrington 31st
December 1808 aged 49 years, also Jean Cossar his Daughter who
died 2nd April 1805.
( Damaged Stone Outside East Window of the Church )
In the old burial book there are two entries a Mrs Cossar and a Robert Cossar sadly no dates, they are either in the Lair or just own it but it is number 94 in the old plan and 63 in my new plan and they share it with an Agnes Falconer perhaps a relation.
Henrietta Cossar born14 Dec 1798 - John Cossar born 2 July 1801 - Robert Cossar born 25 Sept 1803 - at Temple parents Archibald Cossar and Henrietta Johnson.
There are loads of Cossar names in Temple which one exactly are you after ?.
Please see photo attached, this was quite readable in 2006 but the rain we get seems to wear them away quicker, I remember this stone and it is a crime it has gone like this.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
You mentioned previously that you may have some information on a minister named Blake at the Temple Village church. I have found him and his family in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census.
Do you have any other information or stories about this family?
Kind Regards,
D
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Hi D,
sorry this is all I have on him which I think you have.
CENSUS 1891 Reverand James Blake lived in the manse with his wife, five children, cook and nurse.
Cheers.
Archie.
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That's OK. Thanks for the response.
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Hi Archie - I have read with interest the very long thread. My what a lot of work and effort you have put in.
First I would like to say thanks so much for your contributions to the Midlothian knowledge base! I doubt my family will show up on your records because they were mostly from the Lasswade area (and I think those cemeteries are still slated to be photographed) but it doesn't hurt to check.
Do you happen to have any Ainslie's, Messer's or Oughton's listed in your database?
Regards, Carol
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Hi Carol,
thanks for your very kind words but I don't really deserve them I just like if I can to help people, just like the other members do on Rootschat.
I am sorry to say that none of your kin are on my list, Lasswade is a very large Parish and depending exactly where they lived or died there are a number of burial grounds, the Village of Lasswade has three grounds the old one then there is an extension to it, the extension is across from the main gates this I have still to do. The newer one is huge and would take for ever to do and possibly a team of people to work on it.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi again Carol,
When the better weather comes in I will go and check the grounds out but at the moment it is freezing here.
Cheers.
Archie.
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LOL I am in Canada - we have about 6" snow and it has hovered around minus 7-11:( And they call this Spring:(
Thanks so much, whenever works for you is fine.
Regards, Carol
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Hello friends,
I have just come across two stones that have recently been uncovered whilst the owner of the old Manse was rebuilding the wall that fell down, he is waiting until the wall dries out properly before replacing the headstones he had moved for protection.
Stone No 1: Margaret Dickson and Thomas Liddle her husband she died at Temple, Thomas was a Wright at Clerkington and also died at Temple, as Temple is the Parish then Clerkington was part of it so they could well have lived and died at Clerkington but buried in the Temple graveyard. This stone was moved out of position many years ago so it cannot be certain which plot they are in, however, where the stone is situated this was the area of the graveyard they were buried in, anyone requiring a photo please send Iain your email address which he will pass on to me and I will send it off.
Stone No 2: This is a strange stone as it has initials running down one side of the border and on the other side it is all the letter " M ", this is dedicated to David Mitchel who was a Tennant at Brunstone Farm and died on the 14th February 1738 aged 42 years. Again I have a photo of it but the story is the same as the stone above, it is in the correct area but having been moved many years ago I cannot say which plot it is in.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie
Hope you are well and continue busy ;)
Regarding Margaret Dickson, is this connected with your post here from 2012? www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=616258.0
It had detail and a photo already, so thought I would add if correct.
Monica
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Thanks Monica it must be old age or something yes it is the same stone, the other one however has only been found under a huge pile of stones that were in the old Manse garden.
Am I glad you are here to help.
Take care.
Regards.
Archie.
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Archie, Many thanks for all your work on this. I am sure it's a great asset for others.
Do you have any of the following in your records, by any chance:
Robert Ketchen (Cir 1813-post 1851), labourer at Templefarm.
His wife Agnes Crawford (1816-?) and their children Janet (Cir 1839-?), John (Cir 1842-?), James (Cir 1846-?), Robert (C1848-?)
James Brekenridge (AKA Brackenridge, Breakenrigg etc), recorded as a farmer at Temple (Cir 1740-?) and his wife Agnes Gilchrist (C 1745-?)
Many thanks,
Craig Hutchison
http://www.hutchisonfamily.me.uk/placesearch.php?tree=HutchisonFamily&psearch=Temple%2C+Midlothian%2C+Scotland (http://www.hutchisonfamily.me.uk/placesearch.php?tree=HutchisonFamily&psearch=Temple%2C+Midlothian%2C+Scotland)
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Hi Craig,
this is all I have on the files for burials on the Breckenridge family I hope these are related to you which I am sure they are, I can't find any marriages or births on the names you sent me regarding this family, are you trying to trace your roots in Midlothian ?.
I have attached a photo of the stone.
86) Erected by Thomas Breckenridge in memory of his Brother
William Breckenridge Mason in Corslet who died December 30th
1809 aged 22 years. Also his Father James Breckenridge late Smith
in Maveshall who died January 26th 1810 aged 68 years.
( James Young is on the reverse side of Breckenridge )
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie, just a follow up to my earlier post... I wondered if you had come across any Ainslie's, Messer's or Oughton's in your activities?
Thanks and regards, Carol
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Hi Carol,
sorry I have not been to the ground yet I hope to soon though, I am having problems with my Hip and Back but it should not stop me from looking though the old burial ground I do not mind researching but not the newer one that is absolutely vast in size.
Can you send me specific names and dates please that I can print of it makes life easier.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie - sorry for the delay, the days just get away on me.
I don't have a lot of info but relatives I have so far are:
George Ainslie b 1796-d1847; William Ainslie B 1830; Ann Oughton B 1816; Thomas Messer b1867-d1929; Thomas Messer b 1837-d 1874; William Messer b 1801.
I started working on this branch of the family (with lots of assistance from the Scottish support folks on Midlothian board); but we are in the process of an international move and I just don't have enough hours in the day to really focus on it yet.
Just wondered if you had happened to come across any grave sites for these names so that when I get back to the UK I can return to my sleuthing.
Don't make a special trip on my behalf Archie... there is no rush:) Good luck with the hip and back! TX Carol
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hi archie ,new to this site . busy saddler here,trying to find relatives over there . looking for a charles mackenzie scott was a builder born around 1800 to 1810 wife was sarah hague , from edinburgh i think . might be in your cemetery .had a son edward mackenzie scott who migrated to australia 1854 born 1833.thanks busysaddler.
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Hi busy saddler,
welcome to the board, sorry to say that I don't have anyone with those names on my list, what makes you think they were in Temple ?.
Cheers.
Archie.
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hi archie, busysaddler here, the reason i asked if they were there was just a stab in the dark . some times you can be lucky . but not this time . thank you for the reply. busysaddler.
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Hi Archie, I have Lonnie or Loaney ancestors living at Temple, Stobsmill, and Stow abt 1800 to 1869. Is it possible to check the graveyard list. I know Andrew Lonnie died at Stobmills 1864. Other names are Neil, Cairns, Mitchell, married or related to Lonnie.
Some of them were gunpowder/saltpetre workers and so I was very interested in the posting re the Explosion 1820s.
Thanks Janette
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Hi Templar:
I have obtained some pictures likely of James Stewart/Drysdale my Great-Grandfather likely taken at Braidwood Farm between 1905 and 1909. If any one can help with the location of the photos and the persons in the photos ....that would be great.
James occupied Braidwood as a tenant farmer from after 1905 (but before 1911) to 1924 when he died. The older lady in pictures is likely Margaret Drysdale (ne. Richardson) who was a long time resident of Braidwood, Temple and Carrington and was James' stepmother by his father Alexander Drysdale.
James was already the fourth generation descended from Drysdales, Stewarts, Browns, Taits, Pringles and Baillies of the Temple area dating back to at least 1787.
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I attach additional Pictures of James and likely family members.
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Archie75,
I am wondering if there is a any information or gravestone for… Annie "Scott" Bruce who died Sep. 1931 and her husband George Bruce who died May 1935…they both died in Temple .Midlothian.
Many thanks for all the work that you do.
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Hi Archie:
The recently posted Tenant Roles for 1875 show Braidwood Farm was indeed owned by Dundas. By 1905 however, it is listed as Roseberry's property.
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Archie,
Have just finished read this complete post on Temple Burial Grounds and spotted the following which you had replied to:
Re: Temple Village Midlothian
« Reply #119 on: Wednesday 08 February 12 08:31 GMT (UK)
»Below inscriptions from the headstones.
103) Ann Scott Wife of George Bruce died at Fountainside 24th
September 1931 aged 71 years.
(Small Thin Stone Broken)
George Bruce diedMay 1935 and is also buried there,…He was my Gr Grandfathers brother...have lots of info but would appreciate a photo ,if possible of that (small thin Broken stone).
Many thanks for all you do.
Ann
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Hi Ann,
I am sorry for the delay in sending but I never received any notification of your post, I just noticed it today by accident but here goes, as you will see it looks plain but please believe me, the reason you can't see what's on it is due to the light and the stone being white Marble.
I hope you will be satisfied just seeing it, I am not sure if this is the actual plot they are in but I have a hunch that it is.
Regards.
Archie.
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Archie,
Many thanks for your time on this…..it is nice to know that there was and is still a stone..even if I cannot read it. Have copied it for my personal records.
Cheers Ann
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Hi Ann,
thanks for getting back to me, I will try and go to Temple again and see if I can get a better photo, thr as I said it is more like a white on white if only the letters had been darker, if possible I might try and make up mud and wipe it on to see if that can highlight the letters.
The main problem there at Temple is when they cut the grass they use big heavy Mowers and the vibration is terrible, I have seen stones falling over because of this.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hey Archie:
Good to hear you're back on line. I was excited to see that they may be ready to tip up the Drysdale stone. Peter D. got a recent picture. The new wall looks terrific. I would appreciate a picture if you are up that way.
I posted up some pictures likely taken at Braidwood Farm. I'd appreciate if you could match up those pictures to the actual buildings. We are curious if the front door of Braidwood has the "Fan Shaped Light" above it.
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Hi from Australia, Just saw your post. Would you have a William, Helen, John or Catherine Bishop on your list of headstones. William was born 1775 and John was born 1809. Thank you
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Hi
sorry but there none by that name on my list or the old burial book, what makes you think they could be buried there at Temple.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Ann,
the Bruce family are buried in Lair 112 so the stone has been moved, the next time I am at Temple I will put it where it should be.
They resided at Fountainside Farm George was 76 and Ann 71, they are buried on the right they are also buried beside a family called McLashan and Robertson could they be relations ?.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Thanks Templar 75. No particular reason to think they were buried at Templar - just a possible answer to a family from Midlothian. Thanks for the reply
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Thank you Archie,I have made a note of the Lair #,and thank you for your effort and putting the stone in it's right spot.
(he he he ...scrape all moss off front of stones and leave moss on back as government wants . )
The other two names do not ring a bell,but will keep make a note for any later reference.
Kudos to you…for all you have done and you do such a great service…..Ann
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Hi Ann,
thank you for your very kind words which I don't deserve, it may sound weird but I have been down there so often I feel that they are my friends, I know some story's about them sent in by family members, on a nice summers day I just sit on the bench at the gates then check over the stones and the Chapel, my wife thinks I am nuts but it is so peaceful and oh so quiet.
I found a better photo of the stone just zoom in on it, I have some Super Bond adhesive at home with your permission may I attempt to glue the stone together ?, it might work but there again it may not but worth a try, there are some stones that are on their faces but the Council will not allow me to erect them again on their spot because I am not a relative.
I am at the moment trying to make a website on the burial ground with all the information on it including photos, I feel as I am getting older who knows what can happen so it would be a sort of legacy from me.
Which part of Canada are you in ? I have relatives in Campbellford Ontario.
Have a great day.
Archie.
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Archie,
You are a gem….I really appreciate your devotion to your enthusiastic endeavours. I am also going to send you a person message after this .If the possibility exist,I give you permission to do what is needed to glue,fix ,clean or erect the said stone of George Bruce (1859-1935) & Ann Scott (1859-1931) as he was my great grandfathers (Richard Bruce 1857-1937) younger brother.
I am in BC Canada and have been doing research for over 35 years now.
Cheers Ann
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Hi Archie and Ann
Archie, can I just add a big load of appreciation to your long standing and impassioned work on this.
I think you should absolutely set up a website for all of this. You have amassed such a huge of amount of material, it would be amazing to see it all together now.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the thought of you on your knees on a damp grass (winter is coming ::)) trying to Super Bond bits of stone...
Monica :)
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Monica,
Blimey…What a beautiful photo of those 2 children…thanks for sharing.
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My father in law was a tea plantation manager in Malawi in the 1950-70s. Promise, that is not my gorgeous husband's bottom :-X
Monica
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Hi Ann and Monica,
thank you both very much for your very kind appreciation, I love doing what I do ( Non professional ) I am a retired Engineer and I when I started on Temple I was getting plenty of fresh air rather than stuck in a Plant.
Although it says read 53750 times I don't do this for merit I think of people like Ann who can't be here so, helping her out and others gives me a wee bit of joy, RootsChat is a wonderful site I can't imagine how many people it has helped find loved ones all through other dedicate members, I found the majority of my Tree and found cousins I never knew existed on both sides.
Monica you are one of the unsung dedicated heroes and an Angel on this site, your advice is taken 100% and your guidance has helped many a member keep on the right tracks especially me.
The Site I am starting is a free google one so to find it I will need to put the url on RootsChat and hopefully people will visit it, on it I have asked that people still contact me here and the Temple Village Forum, once it's up and running I will post it.
Ann thank you for your PM I will be in touch shortly.
Take care both.
Archie.
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Hi Ann,
I have been in touch with a guy at the Council who has said as long as I can repair the Tablet on site it will be ok, I explained that it was light in weight and would be put back in its proper position the same day.
I will wait until the better weather comes in before I carry out the repair if that is ok with you, I now have the Temple Burial website up and running this is the url for it.
https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/
All photos are free even if someone wants a higher resolution one sent to them.
Cheers.
Archie.
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That is wonderful news….you are fantastic……now I want to jump to your new site..Congratulations on it's launch.
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Thanks Ann I hope you enjoy it.
Cheers.
Archie.
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hi Archie on your search round temple churchyard did you come over any Ritchie Family buried there would be interested yours Helen
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Hi Helen,
yes there are three by the name of Ritchie but sadly there are no headstones for them, they are : Walter Ritchie, Lair : 41 a Mrs Ritchie, Lair : 41 and James Ritchie, Lair : 117. Sorry to say other than the Lair number there are no other details except that they died at Temple.
There are Ritchie's buried down by Rosslyn Chapel.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hello Archie. Is there a designated area for infant burials in Temple graveyard? Sheila Bayne aged 1 month was buried there on 28th July 1927.
I am in Scotland once per year and would visit temple if there is anything to see.
Regards
David Bayne
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Hi David,
I am sorry there are none of what you are looking for and there is no site dedicated for babies, however, if you have other relatives buried there she may be beside them, are you definitely sure she was put in to the Temple ground, do you have a Lair number.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Do you have any record of Leishman headstones in Temple cemetery ?
Fiona
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Fiona, have a look also at Archie's new site here https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/
He has included so much info there, and it is very easy to look around. I think this is the main list of names on it https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/list-of-names-and-pages
Monica :)
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Thanks for that Monica.
Fiona
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Thank you Monica and hello Fiona,
I am sorry there none for whom you are looking for at Temple, however, that is not to say that they are not buried there, the burial book has been very poorly kept over the years and many people are missing from it.
Can you please tell me where they lived and what made you think they are in Temple ?, also the years you are looking at for burials and even any relatives of theirs might be handy, not everyone could afford a headstone.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Thanks for your reply, Archie.
No other Baynes were buried there and I do not have a lair number. I will get back to you if I can trace one.
Regards
David Bayne
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Hi Archie,
I had a look at your site but as you say no Leishmans found.
Richard Leishman was babt1779 in Carrington, not far from Temple, Richard also married Agnes Brown 1804 in Carrington. Richard & Agnes had a son Robert b1808 Carrington. As far as Richard & Agnes go that is all info I have on them, no death dates, or census results. I wondered if they had stayed and died in the area as Robert their son, married 1830 Newbattle, again nearby. Robert and his wife Matilda Ramage had 9 children, 4 born in Temple the others in nearby villages. I have death dates for Robert, Matilda & their 9children, mostly in East Lothian.
Thanks for your interest & if by chance you have any info that throws any light on Richards death in Temple would be great.
Fiona
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Hi Fiona,
I went on to ScotlandsPeople and found these but there is no record for Robert in Carrington only a Richard and that is in Edinburgh, there was also no trace of Roberts death so this means he may have died possibly in England.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi ....
Does anyone know of any Stewart's buried at Temple .... ?
I am related to Richard Stewart from Primrose/Carrington - c.1840s ...
And they appear to have relatives in Temple.
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Hi Del
Have a look on the index on Archie's new (fab ;D) site here https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/
Can't see any Stewarts on the burial list that Archie has https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/list-of-names-and-pages
He is best to advice. He will get a notification on your post here and post back.
Monica :)
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Hi Dell,
sorry but I don't have any of that name on the list but that does not mean that they are not there, many people could not afford a headstone, However, he could be buried at Carrington itself the little Village, sadly I have not completed that one.
The date you have given could mean that they are buried at Whitehill Aisle just down the road, this would be hard to check as it is overgrown and the Council will not put money out to upkeep it.
Monica, thank you for your kind words.
Regards.
Archie.
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Apologies if this has been mentioned and answered before, I was stunned to read that the removal of Lichen is illegal. Is that a Scottish/British National Trust directive along with the Archeologists or is it only in Scotland?
Must admit in the new country here lichen hasn't had much time to be established :P
Great site :)
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Hi Dell,
Lichen is the only way they can determine age and it concerns the whole of the UK, I would say headstones are different because they have dates on them, the secret is, if they are not there wipe it off, the old sandstone Stones you use your hand and no tools the problem is the hand gets sore.
Cheers.
Archie.
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This is the original link found in 2011.
Guidance Notes: Lichens, Algae and Mosses.
http://www.scottishgraveyards.org.uk/downloads/5lichen.pdf
ev
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Thanks ev that should help to explain why we can't touch them.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Dear Templar75,
I was wondering if you have any records of anyone by the last names of 'Reid' or 'Jenkinson' buried at Temple.
I was up at Temple and Borthwick Graveyards yesterday, but struggled to read a lot of the headstones. My ancestors lived at Stobbsmills in Gorebridge in the mid-1800s, so I guess they would probably be buried at Temple, as it is quite close?
Thanks,
Joe
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Joe, welcome to RootsChat :)
Archie has this amazing site here too https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/ Can't see your surnames on the list that Archie has included on surnames https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/list-of-names-and-pages
However, as mentioned there:
Not all of the names of those buried at Temple are recorded, this is because
the burial book was not kept up to date properly and in fact it is a total mess.
All the names below are on the respective stones.
Monica
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Hi SquireofHistory,
thank you Monica for addressing this, when I first went to Temple some stones were already in decay and unreadable and to be honest the site is not that well kept by the Council as you will have seen.
Stobbs had its own Church so by the 1800's there were probably burials started within the grounds, I have never been up there to check but might do it one day.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Dear Monica and Archie,
Thank you very much for your reply, and the welcome :)
I didn't realise there was a website with the names from Temple - thanks for the link.
Archie, I didn't realise Stobs had it's own burial Ground, I shall have a wee look up there when I have time.
Thanks for the help,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
I am sorry about saying that Stobbs had a burial site but I was thinking of something else so please discount that.
Can you give me any more details on your ancestors please for instance full names, Where they were born and married they may have lived at Stobbs but did they die there is the big question, in those days people moved about quite a bit.
There really are loads of burial sites that they could have been buried in but go to this site first which I hope the link works works.
www.midlothian.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/2796/...
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
Thank you very much for the link - it is fantastic!
My ancestors was Stewart Reid, I'm pretty sure he was born in Borthwick between 1808-1811. He married Catherine Jenkinson in Dalkeith in 1830 (although they were both from Borthwick). Catherine was born also between 1808-1811 to William Jinkinson and Elizabeth White.
Their son, Thomas, was born in 1831 in Dalkeith. They were living at Stobbsmills by the 1841 census. Stewart was a Shoemaker. He was buried in April 1851, in the Borthwick OPR burial it simply says 'Stewart Reid, Gorebridge'. I don't know anything of his parents.
Catherine continued to live at Stobbsmills until her death in 1877.
Thanks,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
thanks for the details, I think you will find that they are probably buried at Borthwick and perhaps the same Plot as Stuart, there is a chance they could be buried at Dalkeith but I will stick my neck out and say Borthwick.
People often wanted buried in the place they came from so as they were both originally from Borthwick I say that is their final destination and it also is not far from Stobbs, by the way Stobbs means ( Stopping off place ).
Try Loanhead studies Library they are brilliant at helping, they have a group of people that research some burial grounds they are called ( Recording Angels ).
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Archie,
I had a look at Borthwick, but struggled to read some headstones. However, I agree that, as they are not at Temple, chances are they are at Borthwick (or possibly Dalkeith).
That's very interesting - I didn't know that's what Stobbs meant.
I will definitely try Loanhead Studies Library.
Thank you so much for the advice,
Joe
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It was not unusual to have more than one child in the same family with the same Christian name. If a child died in infancy it was quite common to name the next child born after a child that had died and this can lead to a lot of confusion when looking up dates of births on census records.
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Hello
I have stumbled upon rootschat and am hoping you can help with a search I have. I am looking for information about the 'spalding family'. I have alexander spalding born abt 1780. His daughter christian (1811) married willaim naismith in 1838 in salford lancs. The information about christian spalding is that her father, alexander, was living at stobbs mill. I can find no other information.
Cheers
Lynn
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Hi Lynn,
I am sorry but I never got a notification about your post, I am sorry but there are none buried in Temple with the names you have given.
Regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie:
Any word on whether the Drysdale Tombstone has been tipped back up?
Or if there is a picture of it?
Thanks for following the drama of the tombstone for me.
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Hi Davis,
It's been over a year since I have been down to Temple I will try this summer to venture there,
sorry about that but between having a long rest and my bad Hip the latter is really to blame.
Cheers.
Archie.
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Hi Templar
I was a member of the site a little while ago, but unfortunately lost my login etc. and have had to use another name. I notice that you have been corresponding with AJJBC regarding the grave of Ann Scott in Temple Church. Ann Scott and George Bruce were my great great grandparents.
I have been several times to Temple to try and find George's grave. My aunt always told me that he was buried at Gorebridge. I found Ann's grave fine, but notice that you mention that he is buried in Temple as well. Would you know where abouts the grave is in relation to hers?
Thanks and many thanks in anticipation of a reply!
Jon
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Hello Jon, I have created a website with all the information on Temple Burial Ground, the number of the stone matches that on the newer Plan I made out your number is 103. this is sadly a broken Tablet stone very thin and it was last seen lying on the grond.
Please go here for details. https://sites.google.com/site/templevillageburials/headstones-91---120
Best regards.
Archie.
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Hi Archie:
I'll be in Edinburgh in May. I have sent an email to your old Templar email address. Hopefully it reaches you.
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Hi Archie: I am new to Rootschat.
Thank you for all your work. It must have taken you some considerable time to put this information together. I wonder if you could check whether there are any members of the Lawson family mentioned? I think a headstone is a long shot, but I think they were in and around the area from the early 1830s.
Marilyn
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Hi,
I stumbled across this website and the Midlothian links by chance.
Interested to see the interest in Bennett at Temple.
My sister and I visited the churchyard at Temple last week and discovered the Helen Bennett/William Bald gravestone.
Helen and William were our Great Grandparents on our Mum’s side, Mum sat in the car while we investigated and she was delighted to know where the grave is. She is also called Helen.
We didn’t know dates of death until we found the gravestone, so this has helped fill in some blanks in the family tree I am compiling!
Would be interested to hear from anyone who has a similar interest in either surname.
Thank you!
Shona Marshall
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Hi all
Very new to RootsChat and looking for any information re the Toxside Smithy in Temple Midlothian. We thought the Smithy was called Foxside and my 3rd great grandfather was Thomas White who I believe was the Smithy there in the mid 1840s. He was married to Barbara (Barbra) Geddes and then to Wilhemina Hasting after Barbara's death.
Hoping someone knows something about them? ::)
Morag
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There was a Nether Toxide and the owner's name was the same as at Toxide.
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HI Archie Would you have come over any Ritchie Family in Temple Cemetery Helen
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Hi Archie,
Have scrolled through this thread to see if anyone had previously mentioned people I'm looking for. Sadly none. But I'm really impressed with your help. Sad to see the links are no longer usable and the film didn't happen. Wish a turn of fortune would come your way.
I'm looking for a James Stewart (b.1811 Drumelzier- d.1882 Stobhill) married 1840 Penicuik to Janet Renton (abt 1822 Newbattle - ?). James came from Peebles-shire working his way in Agriculture to Penicuik ending up in Newbattle/Stobhill according to the Censuses.
Their Daughter Isabella lived with them at Newbyres Cottages, Stobhill, Midlothian, Scotland in 1878.
Their grandson Thomas Reid Stewart (b.1878 Newbattle-d.1818 Stobhill) married 1906 Carrington Hannah Jones Kirkwood (b.1882 Carrington-d.1955 Lasswade) they had 2 daughters I know of Christina Skirv. Stewart and Helen Reid Stewart.
Thanks for any help
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Hi Archie
With Gavin's post, I just saw the note on your site.
I am sad for you :-\ All that hard work of yours :'(
Monica
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Thank you kindly for posting this wealth of information :)
My Great Grandmother was Alison Cornwall
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Hi,
I’ve stumbled upon this thread. You wouldn’t have happened to come across any Baillie’s? Appreciate all the effort you’ve gone too.
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I am looking for Burial locations for my GG Parents and G Grandparents
James Lambert CORNWALL d 8 Aug 1945 Living at New Hunterfield Gorebridge
Isabella CORNWALL d 2 Nov 1945 Living at New Hunterfield Gorebridge
Also
Thomas CORNWALL d 18 Nov 1925 Living at Candlework Close Dalkeith
Janet CORNWALL d 4 Sept 1932 Living at Candlework Close Dalkeith
As much as I have tried I cannot find their burial places at all
Thank you in advance for any help locating them
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You don't say where you have already looked.
Have you, for example, asked Midlothian Council? They hold the burial records for Dalkeith and Gorebridge. https://www.midlothian.gov.uk/info/458/local_and_family_history/391/local_studies/6
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My great great great grandparents are Mary Baillie Wilson (1853-1918) and James Stenhouse (1854-1928 miner). Mary was born in Inveresk, Midlothian, Scotland and died in 1918 in West Wallsend, NSW Australia. Unsure if there is a link here but let me know as we are tracing our family tree (it’s predominantly Scottish) and live in Newcastle, NSW Australia.