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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: woey1970 on Monday 09 March 09 06:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone!
Can anyone help me?
I am looking for my grandparents from around 1911. I have some details and have tried the 1911 Census but keep coming to a blank. The surname is Womack, from the Edge Hill in West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire area.
My Grandfathers Birth Cert. shows them living at 44 Wilfer Street, Edge Hill in 1909, but there is a family called Morris at that address in 1911.
His name was William Womack, his father was Arthur Womack, a coachfitter, and his mother was Mary Womack. I think his father died in 1911 (I have a death cert for an A Womack, coachfitter - how many can there be ??) , at which time they were at 70 Wilfer street. However, again there is a family called Padden at that address.
So I am getting a little lost as to where they keep disappearing to, and its starting to cost a fortune looking at different addresses on the 1911 census, and apart from going to Liverpool and spending hours at the Electoral Offices, I am stuck.
If anyone knows where I might be able to at least view the Electoral Role for that area in 1911 that would be great, or indeed any help would be appreciated
Thanks all ???
Woey1970
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Welcome to RootsChat Woey :)
I can't seem to find Arthur in 1911 either.
I had a look at previous censuses and indeed there is an Arthur Womack, Coach Fitter, born ca 1855 and married to a Mary - sorry if you have this already, just thought knowing other family members' details might help us find them later:
1891
RG12/2937 70 11
Toxteth Park Lancashire
Hayward Rd 12 Ct 4 Ho
Arthur Womack, visitor, mar, 37, Coach Maker and Fitter, b. Liverpool
Mary Womack, visitor, mar, 23, b. do.
Margaret Womack, visitor, 7, scholar, b. do.
In the household of a Thomas Pritchard and family.
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Hi Tati
Thanks for the info. I think the Womack you mentioned is the same Arthur who's death cert I spoke about living at 70 Wilfer street.
He was 56 when he died so that certainly matches to as well as his spouse and occupation. He died on 25th September 1911, so I suppose if the census wasn't compiled then, it may be a reason why we can't find him.
Would Mary show up on a search? I know she wouldn't appear on electoral role as Women weren't allowed vote then. Is this the same for the census?
I will keep running with this Arthur and see where it takes me :)
Thanks again
Woey1970
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I can't find any of them at all in either 1901 or 1911! And yes, Mary should appear - they all should!!
Don't despair yet - someone else will probably be able to spot them :)
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Hi all
Do we have a date of birth for William?
David
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Hi David
Yes, I have a copy of his birth cert.
Born 12th August 1909, William Alfred Womack, Mother was Mary (nee Edwards), Father was Arthur. They lived at 44 Wilfer Street, Edge Hill at the time. Although on 1911 census there was a Morris family living there.
Let me know if you need anything else
Thanks
Woey1970
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Belated hello to RC :D
Did William have any brother or sisters?
David
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Hi David
My Dad has always said he had about 8 or 9 brothers, but no sisters, and he was the youngest. I don't know how accurate this is, he also said that William hardly ever spoke about his family.
Cheers
Woey1970
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Hi David
Another thing is he was in the Royal Army Ordanance Corps, as private 14772099. But I have never been able to find anything relating to this.
Cheers
Woey1970
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These records may help.
Marriages Sep 1888
WOMACK Arthur W. Derby 8b 930
(Mary Edwards on same page)
This is the birth registration of your man:
Births Sep 1909
Womack William Alfred W. Derby 8b 591
and the likely death record of his father which ties in with what you have:
Deaths Sep 1911
Womack Arthur 56 W. Derby 8b 846
Based on location (eg W Derby) some or all of these could be siblings of William Alfred:
Births Jun 1896
Womack James W. Derby 8b 606
Births Mar 1898
WOMACK John West Derby 8b 596
Births Mar 1901
Womack Alfred W. Derby 8b 574
Births Sep 1901
WOMACK James Walter W. Derby 8b 530
Births Sep 1905
Womack Thomas Arthur W. Derby 8b 589
Births Dec 1905
Womack Alice W. Derby 8b 318
Births Sep 1908
Womack Margaret Ann W Derby 8b 610
Births Jun 1909
WOMACK Sheila Audrey W. Derby 8b 687
Note that these died at a young age, before the 1911 census:
Deaths Jun 1897
Womack James 0 W. Derby 8b 349
Deaths Sep 1902
Womack Alfred 1 W. Derby 8b 385
Deaths Jun 1909
WOMACK Alice 3 W. Derby 8b 359
Searching for the 'siblings' who were alive on the 1911 census may lead you to William Alfred and his parents.
David
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I am not going to have time today to look at the above, is anyone else able to take up the gauntlet?
;)
David
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Wow Thanks David
I will certainly look into some of those names you gave me!!
If anyone has come across them on the 1911 census please let me know.
(11.03.09) I have been doing some more research and come up with a possible theory.....
(Bare with me a little)
Arthur died in Sep 1911. I have been looking on the 1911 census and come across a family with an Elizabeth Womack as head (I don't know if Arthurs wife Mary had a middle name yet, looking into it), living with her mother Sarah Edwards..... and edwards is the maiden name of Mary (See where I am coming from?)
Now the confusing part! My grandad isn't on it, although 2 sons are showing one is Thomas Arthur Womack (Arthur being the name ofmarys late husband). Also 2 nephews are showing Phillip Nelson Womack, and Thomas Nelson Womack (both have same middle names???). Could Mary have brothers or sisters living nearby, where my grandad (william) may have gone to live?, because there were no benefits etc back then, perhaps she couldn't afford to keep the house they were living in (Wilfer street) so had to split the family up.
The address concerned is 15 Hawdon Street, West Derby, Liverpool
Any Ideas to my theory anyone??
cheers
Jason
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Hi Cuz
My GGrandfather was also your Arthur Womack, my Grandfather was Joseph Glover Womack b. 1896.
William did have both brothers and sisters....Arthur, Mary, Joseph,Sarah and James. They had a very hard life, very poor and I think that they did not want to be found in the 1901 census ect...was told that they were always on the go. Maybe some of the children your grandfather remembered. He must have been very young when the family was torn apart.
Joseph was sent to Canada in Feb 1910 and Sarah a few years later.
At that time (1910) Sarah was in Northumberland Terrace Industrial School, Arthur Jnr was working in Milners Safe works, Mary was living at 40 Garmoyle Road, James was in Everton Terrace Industrial School and William was presumed to be with his Mother?
Both Joseph and Sarah were home children sent to Canada.Joseph returned to UK abt 1914, Sarah stayed in Canada.
I think Arthur Jnr's children are in Canada also. I could be wrong but I think Arthur Jnr died in the 1960's-1970. I have this info somewhere.
My mother was Joseph's eldest daughter Edith
Regards Carol
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Hi Carol
WOW!!!!
Firstly thanks for your reply.
There is loads of info i can use if its the same tree we are talking about. I only say this cuz i have other info which doesn't relate to what you have given me, and i dont want to concentrate on your info if its not the womack i am looking for at the moment, even though we are related somewhere down the line.
Having said that i have arthurs death and marraige cert. His death cert shows he died on 25/9/1911, aged 56 years, and he married mary on 11/9/1888, indicating he was born in 1855 (thats as far as i got)
I did give up for a while because it was becoming too expensive, but you have relit my interest in finging out more about the womacks.
I amplanning to visit liverpool the end of april, i might visit liverpool central library to see if i can further my investigations (i live in birmingham)
I hope too here from you soon
jason
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The Elizabeth you found in 1911 is at 54 Wilfer Street in 1901
Elizabeth Womack head widow 39 bn Wavertree
Mary Agnes daur 18
Jessie daur 10
John son 3
Alfred son 11 weeks
all children bn Liverpool
James Womack married Elizabeth Edwards 1882 Holy Trinity Wavertree
Gibel
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James Womack and Elizabeth are at Nebo Street Wavertree in 1891.
James is the brother of Arthur. They show together in 1881 with their mother Mary in Wavetree and another brother George.
Gibel
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Hiya....
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html has the following
Babtism 9th January 1889 at St Bridget ,Wavertree, Liverpool
George Womack ...son of Arthur Womack and Mary
abode 11 Abyssinia Street
occupation Coachfitter
babtised by T Parker
so...George could possibly have been born late december 1888..the same year as their marriage..
there are only 15 records for Womack on lan-opc ...10 of these are in Liverpool...the earliest is 1840
take a look
allan :)
by the way ....Mark Womack the actor who married Samantha Janus the actress , would somehow be related to you...Womack in Liverpool....they all seem to stem from Arthur Womack and his wife Mary Ann who first show up in Liverpool in 1840
allan :)
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Hi Jason
Yes your dates match mine, I gave up for a time for the same reason..although the cost to have them sent overseas is a little more.
More info-
Arthur born 1/4/1854 ( just realised it was april fools day) to George and Mary ( Bruce ) Womack. Place of residence 13 Falkener Street, Liverpool.
George Womack married Mary Bruce 30/8/1852 Place hard to read could be St Katherines??? Liverpool.
Father of George stated on this certificate as Arthur Womack. Father of Mary Bruce was stated as Benjamin.
I 851 census stated that George ws born ..Great Yarmouth Norfolk.
Hope this helps
Carol
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Hi Jason
Just a little more info, the information regarding brothers & sisters of my grandfather Joseph Glover Womack...we found this info from the records of Barnardo's re the Home Children ( of which Joseph and Sarah were) sorry a
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Further to my last message...don't know what happened.....the info from Barnardo's was that Mary was living at 44 Wilfer street and that they presumed that her youngest child William was living with her. Arthur was not about or did not want to be found according to a friend Mr T Jack...something seemed to be awry with the family.
I have relatives still in Liverpool...also have been in contact with relo's in Canada recently ( from Sarah your grandfathers older sister)
I really must get back to the Family History....just have to find the time and the money.
Regards
Carol
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Flamin eck!!
Thanks Carol, you seem to have gotten a lot further than i have. You can find my tree on Genes Reunited if you want to have a look, you prob have more info than me tho. I will keep digging tho, would be interesting to find out what happened after 1911, prob have to wait till the 1921 census.
Jason
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Hi Jason
Sorry I din't start when my Mum and Dad were still around, although Granddad did not speak about his younger life very much.
I don't know if I told you that Ggrandmother Womack remarried in 1912(I think that's right), To a Thomas Billington and she later remarried again.
Regards
Carol
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Thomas Billington and Mary Womack married in Our Lady and St Nicholas and St Anne in 1912
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
allan :)
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Have been researching womack family history and traced roots back to Norfolk. Husbands family starts with Fredrick Thomas Womack born 1914 son of Mary Agnes Womack of Alfred St Liverpool her father was James Womack born 1885 Liverpool married to Elizabeth Edwards. James's father was Arthur Womack born 1825 Liverpool who originated in Norfolk. Womack family are a very old norfolk family going back as far as 15th century.
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hello, i have just started to do my family when i came across this message. A lot of my relations lived in wilfer street. My great grandmother at 42 on the 1911 census until her death in 1964. A great uncle lived at 70 about 1920 until about 1949 than one of his sons lived there until 1970. Another relation lived at 58 and 29. Their name is mccormick. I will ask some of my older relations if the know the family and will get back to you.
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Re-Womack-West Derby,
I am Married to Jean Womack, who is the daughter of Thomas Arthur Womack ,Married to Jessie Daley 1927. they had five children. They moved from Liverpool in 1940, to Preston, Lancashire.
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Is anyone on this topic related to William Thomas Arthur Womack? I have no idea of his age or where he was born but I do know that he served with 99 Squadron during WWII. He was involved in a Wellington bomber crash near where I live in Northumberland.
I am trying to trace any photos of him for my research.
Kind Regards,
Jim
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Hello, Just found a, William Thomas Arthur Womack. Marriage, 24/9/1939.Eastham, Essex, England. Father, Robert Thomas Arthur Womack. Spouse, Muriel Doris Saunders. I found this on, Family Search.org, the mormon site. Much more Womack family information was on the site. Seems to always go back to Norfolk. Hope the information is of help.
Posted on behalf of Jimporter who sent the message to me in error. When you wish to reply to a topic jim, just log in and then click on the blue reply button at the end of the topic ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hello, Just found a, William Thomas Arthur Womack. Marriage, 24/9/1939.Eastham, Essex, England. Father, Robert Thomas Arthur Womack. Spouse, Muriel Doris Saunders. I found this on, Family Search.org, the mormon site. Much more Womack family information was on the site. Seems to always go back to Norfolk. Hope the information is of help.
Jim Porter.
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Is anyone on this topic related to William Thomas Arthur Womack? I have no idea of his age or where he was born but I do know that he served with 99 Squadron during WWII. He was involved in a Wellington bomber crash near where I live in Northumberland.
I am trying to trace any photos of him for my research.
Kind Regards,
Jim
Hi Jim
I've only seen this post yesterday 23rd May 2022.
William Thomas Arthur Womack was my Grandfather, He was born in Essex 4th December 1914 or 1915.
he married my Grandmother Muriel Doris Saunders Christmas eve 1939.
He survived the war working in the city until his retirement December 1979.
William and Muriel Brought My Brother and I up firstly in Bromley Kent and then the isle of wight after his retirement 1980.
Unfortunately he passed away in May 1990,on the isle of wight.
if you are still interested in photos etc please let me know.
Yours Paul Womack