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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: morleyman on Monday 09 March 09 18:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Monday 09 March 09 18:57 GMT (UK)
I am looking for my grandfather James Alfred Tuppen born 1870, I have his marriage cert, and from that that his father was Albert Tuppen. I also have found from the 1911 census he was born in Brighton (but married and lived in Eastbourne) but apart from these two results there is no other mention of him in the bmd or any of the other census results.

I am hoping that if I can find a baptism I can get somewhere.
It is possible that his christian names have been reversed but I would think it unlikely in both results and trying this in bmd and census still does not get a result. If anyone could help I would appreciate it.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 10 March 09 11:32 GMT (UK)
When/where/who did he marry? His occupation? Alleged father's occupation from marriage cert?
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Tuesday 10 March 09 14:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks for reply,
He married Mary Ann Winborn(e) 6th Oct 1906 at the Congregational Church, Pevensey Rd Eastbourne, and he is listed as a Bachelor of 37 and a Fishmonger living in Tideswell Rd. His Father is a Domestic Gardener but it does not state if he is alive or not.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 10 March 09 14:59 GMT (UK)
This is proving tricky!

Remember that it was common place for illegitimately born peopel to make up a father to go on a marriage cert. Also possible he was born with a different surname and Tuppen is a stepfathers name.

At present I cant find anything (same as you!) on censuses etc.

I wonder if he is in a Directory in Eastbourne as a Fishmonger?

Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Tuesday 10 March 09 15:06 GMT (UK)
I haven't been able to find a directory online yet that I can access.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: Annette7 on Wednesday 11 March 09 01:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Morleyman

First of all you can view historical directories free at:

http://www.historicaldirectories.org

However, whilst I cannot help re. Brighton baptisms I have been doing a little digging and have a theory.   It seems strange that whilst there are a number of Tuppen's in Sussex there is no trace either in births or the census pre 1911 for James Alfred Tuppen.   I then decided to look for an Albert Tuppen and have come up with something which could well be a red herring and you may dismiss it entirely.

Albert as a christian name wasn't hugely popular until the late 19C so to find there was an Albert Tuppen in Sussex intrigued me.   There are a large number of  Tuppen's on Ancestry Public Trees 2 of which related to an Albert Tuppen b.1856 Willingdon, Sussex (the trees take this line back quite a way).   One of the entries lists him on the various census - in 1871 he is 15 and an Ag. Lab., 1881 and 1891 a Stoker at Water Works, and 1901 a Pastoral Labourer.   He died in 1905. You probably think I'm off my trolley at this point but bear with me.

The other entry was not very detailed but a note had been put on showing 'Gardener for Lord Willingdon'.   (The local manor was owned (in 1867)by Frederick Freeman Thomas and from googling it seems that his son - or some other member of the family - became 1st. Marquess of Willingdon and Lord but not until after 1900). Since he does not appear on any census as a Gardener the person who submitted this entry must have some personal knowledge of Albert.   I wonder if he first worked for the local manor as a gardener and at the tender age of 14 had his wicked way with a young servant girl with James Alfred being the result.   He'd have been too young to make an honest woman of her and she'd have been fired no doubt from her post and sent back from whence she came (Brighton??)!!!   

That being so he would have been registered in his mothers name and appear under that on the census or, indeed if his mother subsequently married, under his step-fathers name neither of which helps us to locate him and at what stage he decided to take his father's name is unknown.   He may have known Albert in later life and when Albert died in 1905 decided to use the name Tuppen then.   Seems strange that we find no trace of James Alfred as a Tuppen until his marriage the following year.  All theory on my part of course but it makes some kind of sense.   

What do you think?

Annette

Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: Roy G on Wednesday 11 March 09 06:21 GMT (UK)
Like others, I have looked, even at TuppeR (open N's sometimes get seen as an R by transcribers) but drawn a blank. 
A search of FreeBMD for a child born in Brighton between 1869-1871 with the first name combination of James Alfred however revealed a James Alfred Martin, James Alfred Miller and James Alfred Sharp. 
Perhaps one of these was an illegitimate birth.
Roy G

Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Wednesday 11 March 09 11:55 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for your replies Annette and Roy,
Firstly Annette, I must apologize re the name, I have just received a copy of James' marriage cert (the original was not in the best shape) and have found his father's name was in fact Alfred not Albert not that this helps much, there isn't a Albert Tuppen in the  1871/81 census with a son James (the most likely ones) though I must admit I like the theory.
Roy, also a good notion, but I wonder why and when he became Tuppen.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: Annette7 on Wednesday 11 March 09 12:31 GMT (UK)
Just to let you know I also went down Roy G's route - you can discount James Alfred Martin/Sharp but don't know about Miller.

Annette
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Thursday 12 March 09 11:23 GMT (UK)
I didn't get anywhere with Miller either.
Looked at Historical Directories and I am even more confused that before.
The 1911 census gives James Tuppen living at 1 North St Eastbourne and a confectioner with his wife as an assistant, there are the two children and a lodger Frank Saunders, a whitesmith. No other people are listed. In Kelleys directories for 1911 and 1915 a John Tuppen is listed at 1 North St  Eastbourne as a confectioner but a John doesn't appear in the census. 
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: Roy G on Thursday 12 March 09 17:05 GMT (UK)
Have a look at the Genes Reunited Website.
There is a Peter Morisson on there who is also researching your James of Brighton.
Peter also has a Phyllis Tuppen and a Kenward Tuppen of Eastbourne amongst his research interests.  Perhaps you two should compare notes.
Roy G
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: morleyman on Thursday 12 March 09 17:21 GMT (UK)
Thanks Roy, that's me.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: diplodus on Tuesday 17 December 13 14:50 GMT (UK)
Hi

Just found out that my father was a Douglas Tuppen born / grew up in Manchester and Brighton. Do you have any leads on his family (half brother Raymond Simkin) - he had changed his name to Desmond Thorpe way back

Any info as to relatives of his etc wouldbe great
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: sarah on Monday 23 December 13 11:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Diplodus,

Welcome to RootsChat.

I am very sorry to say that Morleyman's email notifications are bouncing back to us :'( I have done a quick search for him online but not been able to find him. Perhaps someone could see if he is accessing his GR messages????

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: sillgen on Monday 23 December 13 12:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Diplodus,
You do not give any dates for your father but there is a birth in Brighton in 1929 and a possible marriage.  Have a look on www.freebmd.org.uk and you may well find more information.   We can't give details of living people but that site may help you find living relatives if you follow through marriages and children.
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: diplodus on Sunday 26 January 14 14:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Thanks for replying. My father has passed away, I am just trying to contact any Tuppen relatives. He was born in 1929 Nov in Brighton, but changed his name later to Thorpe. He was Douglas Tupppen. Any info will be appreciated

Regards Peter Thorpe
Title: Re: Tuppen Baptism lookup please Brighton
Post by: JeffreyVaillant on Sunday 16 August 20 23:39 BST (UK)
Raymond Simkin 193302006, son of Arthur Charles Linay Simkin 1876 1972. I have some more information.