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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: morleyman on Monday 09 March 09 18:57 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for my grandfather James Alfred Tuppen born 1870, I have his marriage cert, and from that that his father was Albert Tuppen. I also have found from the 1911 census he was born in Brighton (but married and lived in Eastbourne) but apart from these two results there is no other mention of him in the bmd or any of the other census results.
I am hoping that if I can find a baptism I can get somewhere.
It is possible that his christian names have been reversed but I would think it unlikely in both results and trying this in bmd and census still does not get a result. If anyone could help I would appreciate it.
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When/where/who did he marry? His occupation? Alleged father's occupation from marriage cert?
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Thanks for reply,
He married Mary Ann Winborn(e) 6th Oct 1906 at the Congregational Church, Pevensey Rd Eastbourne, and he is listed as a Bachelor of 37 and a Fishmonger living in Tideswell Rd. His Father is a Domestic Gardener but it does not state if he is alive or not.
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This is proving tricky!
Remember that it was common place for illegitimately born peopel to make up a father to go on a marriage cert. Also possible he was born with a different surname and Tuppen is a stepfathers name.
At present I cant find anything (same as you!) on censuses etc.
I wonder if he is in a Directory in Eastbourne as a Fishmonger?
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I haven't been able to find a directory online yet that I can access.
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Hi Morleyman
First of all you can view historical directories free at:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org
However, whilst I cannot help re. Brighton baptisms I have been doing a little digging and have a theory. It seems strange that whilst there are a number of Tuppen's in Sussex there is no trace either in births or the census pre 1911 for James Alfred Tuppen. I then decided to look for an Albert Tuppen and have come up with something which could well be a red herring and you may dismiss it entirely.
Albert as a christian name wasn't hugely popular until the late 19C so to find there was an Albert Tuppen in Sussex intrigued me. There are a large number of Tuppen's on Ancestry Public Trees 2 of which related to an Albert Tuppen b.1856 Willingdon, Sussex (the trees take this line back quite a way). One of the entries lists him on the various census - in 1871 he is 15 and an Ag. Lab., 1881 and 1891 a Stoker at Water Works, and 1901 a Pastoral Labourer. He died in 1905. You probably think I'm off my trolley at this point but bear with me.
The other entry was not very detailed but a note had been put on showing 'Gardener for Lord Willingdon'. (The local manor was owned (in 1867)by Frederick Freeman Thomas and from googling it seems that his son - or some other member of the family - became 1st. Marquess of Willingdon and Lord but not until after 1900). Since he does not appear on any census as a Gardener the person who submitted this entry must have some personal knowledge of Albert. I wonder if he first worked for the local manor as a gardener and at the tender age of 14 had his wicked way with a young servant girl with James Alfred being the result. He'd have been too young to make an honest woman of her and she'd have been fired no doubt from her post and sent back from whence she came (Brighton??)!!!
That being so he would have been registered in his mothers name and appear under that on the census or, indeed if his mother subsequently married, under his step-fathers name neither of which helps us to locate him and at what stage he decided to take his father's name is unknown. He may have known Albert in later life and when Albert died in 1905 decided to use the name Tuppen then. Seems strange that we find no trace of James Alfred as a Tuppen until his marriage the following year. All theory on my part of course but it makes some kind of sense.
What do you think?
Annette
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Like others, I have looked, even at TuppeR (open N's sometimes get seen as an R by transcribers) but drawn a blank.
A search of FreeBMD for a child born in Brighton between 1869-1871 with the first name combination of James Alfred however revealed a James Alfred Martin, James Alfred Miller and James Alfred Sharp.
Perhaps one of these was an illegitimate birth.
Roy G
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Many thanks for your replies Annette and Roy,
Firstly Annette, I must apologize re the name, I have just received a copy of James' marriage cert (the original was not in the best shape) and have found his father's name was in fact Alfred not Albert not that this helps much, there isn't a Albert Tuppen in the 1871/81 census with a son James (the most likely ones) though I must admit I like the theory.
Roy, also a good notion, but I wonder why and when he became Tuppen.
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Just to let you know I also went down Roy G's route - you can discount James Alfred Martin/Sharp but don't know about Miller.
Annette
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I didn't get anywhere with Miller either.
Looked at Historical Directories and I am even more confused that before.
The 1911 census gives James Tuppen living at 1 North St Eastbourne and a confectioner with his wife as an assistant, there are the two children and a lodger Frank Saunders, a whitesmith. No other people are listed. In Kelleys directories for 1911 and 1915 a John Tuppen is listed at 1 North St Eastbourne as a confectioner but a John doesn't appear in the census.
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Have a look at the Genes Reunited Website.
There is a Peter Morisson on there who is also researching your James of Brighton.
Peter also has a Phyllis Tuppen and a Kenward Tuppen of Eastbourne amongst his research interests. Perhaps you two should compare notes.
Roy G
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Thanks Roy, that's me.
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Hi
Just found out that my father was a Douglas Tuppen born / grew up in Manchester and Brighton. Do you have any leads on his family (half brother Raymond Simkin) - he had changed his name to Desmond Thorpe way back
Any info as to relatives of his etc wouldbe great
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Hi Diplodus,
Welcome to RootsChat.
I am very sorry to say that Morleyman's email notifications are bouncing back to us :'( I have done a quick search for him online but not been able to find him. Perhaps someone could see if he is accessing his GR messages????
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Diplodus,
You do not give any dates for your father but there is a birth in Brighton in 1929 and a possible marriage. Have a look on www.freebmd.org.uk and you may well find more information. We can't give details of living people but that site may help you find living relatives if you follow through marriages and children.
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Hi Thanks for replying. My father has passed away, I am just trying to contact any Tuppen relatives. He was born in 1929 Nov in Brighton, but changed his name later to Thorpe. He was Douglas Tupppen. Any info will be appreciated
Regards Peter Thorpe
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Raymond Simkin 193302006, son of Arthur Charles Linay Simkin 1876 1972. I have some more information.
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Douglas was the son of my great-aunt, Harriet Bickley (aka known as Kathleen). I would love to exchange information.
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Here is what I have on Harriett, what do you think?
Harriet (Kathleen) Bickley
Harriet (Kathleen) Bickley
BIRTH 18 MAR 1893 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
DEATH 6 DEC 1976 Brighton General Hospital, Brighton, East Sussex, England
b 18 Mar 1893 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
1901 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Age 19 Marriage
8 May 1912 Register Office, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Reuben Pashilinsky
(18891962)
Birth of daughter Rashki Baly (Rita) Pashilinsky(19121990)
5 Jun 1912 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Age 21 Birth of daughter Diane Deborah Pashilinsky(19141985)
15 Jun 1914 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Age 23 Birth of daughter Vera Hyzam Pashilinsky(19161999)
6 Jun 1916 Newport M, Wales
Age 26 Birth of daughter Miriam Pashilinsky(1919)
Apr 1919 Newport M, Wales
Age 34 Marriage
12 Jan 1928 Brighton, East Sussex, England
Alfred Tuppen
(18991971)
Age 35 Birth of son Douglas A Tuppen(19281976)
Nov 1928 Brighton, East Sussex, England
Age 39 Birth of son Raymond Simkin(19332006)
20 Jan 1933 Brighton, East Sussex, England
Age 53 Death of father Henry James Bickley(18651947)
19 Feb 1947 Newport, Monmouthshire
Age 58 Death of mother Jane Love(18651951)
20 Jun 1951 Newport, Monmouthshire
Age 64 Death of brother Paul Bickley(18871957)
16 Apr 1957 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Age 78 Death of husband Alfred Tuppen(18991971)
1971 Brighton, Sussex, England
Age 79 Death of husband Arthur Charles Linay Simkin(18761972)
12 Sep 1972 Hove, Sussex, England
Age 79 Death of husband Arthur Charles Linay Simkin(18761972)
12 Sep 1972 Brighton, England
Age 81 Death of brother Henry James Bickley(18901974)
22 Jul 1974 St Cadoc's Hospital, Caerleon, Monmouthshire, Wales
Death of son Douglas A Tuppen(19281976)
1976
Age 83 Death
6 Dec 1976 Brighton General Hospital, Brighton, East Sussex, England
Divorce Filed
Evening Telegraph, Angus, Scotland 7 February 1929 page 7 Marriage Problem for Magistrates Husband Says Wife Is Already Married The story of an extraordinary marriage tangle was told to Brighton magistrates. Alfred Tuppen of Tirle Road, Brighton, a
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Hello, ive just been reading this and Harriet Bickley is my great-grandmother. she had a daughter (my nan) Jillian Blanden (marital surname of beavis). she died in 2008, however my great-uncle Brian Blanden is still alive and lives in brighton.
I would love to chat with you to find out more!
I have ancestry tree and i have simkin on my tree (obviously) too. i think I also have Tuppen on my tree as well.
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Hello, ive just been reading this and Harriet Bickley is my great-grandmother. she had a daughter (my nan) Jillian Blanden (marital surname of beavis). she died in 2008, however my great-uncle Brian Blanden is still alive and lives in brighton.
I would love to chat with you to find out more!
I have ancestry tree and i have simkin on my tree (obviously) too. i think I also have Tuppen on my tree as well.
I have, hopefully, replied to you privately.
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Hi Claire, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Please may I have your email so we can liase further about this.
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It is against Rootschat policy to exchange email addresses on the open forum - you will need to use the private messaging service.
Click on the green A4 paper icon underneath your username in this thread to access it, although I think you will need to make one more post. Just reply to this post to increase your tally.
Pheno