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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: Yi Win on Monday 16 March 09 11:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find out the Blo(o)mfields listed in Stoneham 1500 and 1600's.
Does anyone have any information on them at all? Even the remotest hint may help!
Many thanks
Yi Win
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Hi YiWin
No Stoneham in Suffolk - possibly Stonham Aspall, (Earl) Stonham or Stonham Parva (Little Stonham).
From records I have at home there is a John Bloomfiedl farming in Stonham Parva in the mid 1840s and he is a landowner (White's).
Pat ...
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Hi,
and thanks for replying.
Yes I did wonder about that - I had a feeling on the one record I had saying 'Stoneham' that perhaps the Parva or Earl had slipped off somewhere along the line as I've links in my tree to both those places.
Do you know anything about any of the earleir Blomfield from that area at all?
maybe I should correct the title or start a new topic with the correct name of the places.
Thanks for your time in replying
Yi Win
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Hi,
I'd just like to thank suepip for her PM giving marriage info for Stoneham Aspall and Little Stoneham - some very interesting possible leads here!
Thanks again!
Yi Win
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Hi,
me again - off on the great Blomfield hunt!
Can anyone help with a birth record of a John Blomfield in Stonham Parva or Aspal c 1538-1558?
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Hi,
I'd just like to say a big thanks to everyone who has helped me with tracing the Blomvyle's of Stonham - thanks to all the info passed to me I now have found 2 separate but related families in Stonham and now know which one I belong to!
I have a tree with both lines on it - if anyone is interested in looking at it please PM me.
A snippet for anyone interested......
I've also now found a link which has been hinted at several times on line but no one's come up with any link that the De Blunvil family (which became Blomvyle/Blomfield/Bloomfield) are related to a nephew of William The Conqueror - the link is through the de Burgh family by female marriage and the de Burghs are decended from one Robert de Burgo de Montaigne who was the half borther of William The Conqueror.
Have fun
Yi Win
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I have recently come across a family of Blomfields in my family tree who were living at Earl Stonham, Suffolk, in 1841. However, it would appear that they were all born in Woolpit. Don't know if there could be any link here: John Blomfield, born Woolpit, 1793 married Elizabeth Barnes. As I have only recently discovered them, I'm afraid I haven't actually worked the family back any further, but if you have any links I would obviously be very interested to hear from you.
Regards,
Greensleeves
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hI, Yi Win helped me with this family last year Greensleaves, but I still haven't found a link back/out of Woolpit. I can pm you with what I have, Yi Win may have more. John.
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Hi again John - Blomfield hunters of the world unite! Yes, I'd be really grateful if you could let me have any info on the Blomfields. I have found a whole nest of them in Woolpit (some of the Woolpit Parish records have been transcribed & are online via a link from SFH page) and am about to start wading through them. There are also a couple of mentions in the Rattlesden parish records (extracts of which also can be found online):
Baptism of Nathaniell Blomfield, son of Roger Blomfield 11 June 1569
Burial of ' Roger Blumfeild an aged man' 8 November 1610.
Regards,
Greensleeves
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Hello Greensleeves, rallying to your call for Blomfield researchers to unite ;D
I have Blumfield in Framlingham,
Mary Bridges b 1807 married Stephen Blumfield, fellmonger of the town in 1831 so if anyone finds themselves in that part of Suffolk dew yew give me a call.
Wishing all mums a Happy Mothering Sunday
Pat ...
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Hello Suffolkmawther- blast me gel, dew yew hev Blumfields in yor tree? Well Oi never did! Oi will give yew a shout if Oi go foindin' any of moi Blumfields around Fram!
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Hi,
I will look at my tree and see if i can find any of yoru blomfields on it!
My tree is made up of serval cousins trees combined and willing members on here and from other places who have kindly allowed me to merge trees with them as long as they get the full copy back again!
Blomfield's unite Ahoy!
If anyone wants the link to my tree please PM me!
Yi Win
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Hi Yi Win - I have sent you a PM asking for a link to your tree, pretty please ;D
John, whilst paddling through the Woolpit Blo(o)mfields, I discovered that Woolpit was quite famous for its brickworks, and that there were a number of claypits in the area which fed the local brickmaking industry. As we know John Blomfield, who is in Earl Stonham in 1841, was a brickmaker, perhaps he and his family moved from Woolpit for reasons connected to work. However, I can't find anything online to show there was a thriving brickmaking industry in Earl Stonham. However, I did notice on the 1841 census that there is another family of Blomfields in Earl Stonham at the time:
Jonathan Blomfield, 40, Ag Lab
Susan Blomfield, 40
William (20), Jonathan (12), Robert (9), Mary (7).
All born in county
So far though, haven't found a link between the two families.
Regards to all Blo(o)mfield hunters,
Greensleeves
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Hi greensleaves, looks like Jonathan was born in yardley.
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Hiya Greensleeves,
John Blomfield, born Woolpit, 1793 married Elizabeth Barnes
I do not have a family from Woolpit living in Stonham on my tree.
I only have a Stephen Blomfield who married a sarah Byran in Woolpit 1731 but they seem to have settled in Stoke Ash via Wickham Skeith by the looks of the birth location for thier kids.
I have to go out this morning but I will have a look at the stuff my cousin and have on paper and see if we have anything there for you - he may have a few clues written down.
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Hi Greensleeves,
Rattlesden parish records (extracts of which also can be found online):
Baptism of Nathaniell Blomfield, son of Roger Blomfield 11 June 1569
Burial of ' Roger Blumfeild an aged man' 8 November 1610.
nope sorry I dont have any Blomfields fro mRattelsden on my tree!!!
Having the Woolpit Blomfields moving to Stonham is an interesting thing though!
but the question remains - where did they come from.......?
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Hi all,
Framlingham Blomfields
I have on my tree ......
Mary born 1835 daught of Robert (Yaxley) and Mary Ann - assume family moved to Laxfield as all the other kids are born there.
Frances b 1632 daught of John (Stonham Aspal) and Mary - I assume she may have been born in Stonahm Aspal and either family moved to Framlingham or she did at a later date.
Sorry not much help here am I!!!!
:-)
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HI,
Mary Bridges b 1807 married Stephen Blumfield
nope not on my tree - sorry!
Yi
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PS
I have acccess to the Woolpit and Earl Stonham parish records if anyone wants me to look anything up?
I also have Wickham Skeith, Thornham Magna and Stoke Ash
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PPS
Have also some Blomfield records for....
Haughley
Mickfield
Stonham Aspal
Stonham Parva
Old Newton
Mendlesham
Let me know if you want me to check anything in these areas.
Yi
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Hi Yi Win, are the woolpit parish records you have access to more detailed than the online ones I have been using.
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HI Geensleeves and Youngtug,
However, I did notice on the 1841 census that there is another family of Blomfields in Earl Stonham at the time:
Jonathan Blomfield, 40, Ag Lab
Susan Blomfield, 40
William (20), Jonathan (12), Robert (9), Mary (7).
All born in county
I have lots of Blomfields in Stonham late 1700's / 1800 - this family could be the son of any of them - doesnt help much! sorry!
are the woolpit parish records you have access to more detailed than the online ones I have been using.
I do not know but these are the Blomfields on there......
W BLOOMFIELD Margaret CUTCHY Thomas 26 Nov 1663
C BLOMFIELD Joseph Peter 12 Oct 1690
C BLOOMFIELD John Peter 18 Jan 1693
B BLOOMFIELD Anne 23 Jan 1695
C BLOMFIELD Isaac 7 Mar 1696
H BLOOMFIELD Peter COOK Elizabeth 20 Apr 1696
B BLOOMFIELD John 18 Nov 1696
B BLOOMFIELD Joseph s Peter 23 Sep 1698
C BLOOMFIELD Daniel Peter 20 May 1700
C BLOOMFIELD Mary Peter 26 Oct 1701
C BLOOMFIELD Susanna Peter 5 Nov 1704
C BLOOMFIELD John Peter 14 Aug 1709
B BLOOMFIELD Elizabeth 29 Sep 1711
C BLOOMFIELD Daniel Daniel 16 Oct 1726
B BLOMFIELD Daniel 9 Dec 1726
W BLOMFIELD Mary SPARROW Henry 5 Nov 1728
(Stowmarket)
C BLOMFIELD Mary Daniel 18 Aug 1728
B BLOMFIELD Elizabeth 26 Mar 1730
B BLOMFIELD Peter 6 Apr 1730
H BLOMFIELD Stephen BREAMS Sarah 29 May 1732
(Stoke Ash) (Wetherimpsett)
C BLOMFIELD Susan Daniel 6 May 1733
C BLOMFIELD Elizabeth Daniel 10 Nov 1735
B BLOMFIELD Elizabeth 28 Nov 1735
C BLOMFIELD John Daniel 11 Apr 1737
C BLOMFIELD Anne Daniel 2 Feb 1739
C BLOMFIELD Elizabeth Daniel 1 Jul 1744
W BLOMFIELD Mary RICE John 15 Oct 1754
(Elmswell)
W BLOMFIELD Elizabeth BIRD Stephen 29 Sep 1756
C BLOMFIELD Pleasant d/o Susan 28 Mar 1768
B BLOMFIELD Pleasant 3 Apr 1768
C BLOMFIELD John Elizabeth 21 Jan 1770
W BLOMFIELD Elizabeth BAKER Jeremiah 10 Dec 1770
B BLUMFIELD Susan 28 Oct 1771
B BLOMFIELD Mary 10 Sep 1778
B BLOMFIELD Daniel 9 Dec 1780
C BLOMFIELD John John & Mary OTTERWELL b 22 Jan 8 Jun 1794
C BLOMFIELD Mary John & Mary OTTERWELL b 25 Jun '97 27 May 1798
C BLOMFIELD James John & Mary OTTERWELL b 24 May 29 Jul 1804
C BLOMFIELD Robert John & Mary OTTERWELL b 25 Mar 25 Dec 1810
H BLOMFIELD John BARNES Elizabeth 30 Jul 1812
B = Burial, C = Christening, H = Husband (Marriage), W = Wife (Marriage)
red indicates my family
I have these southgate's on the earl Stonham paris records
1800 03/Aug WILLIAMS James Thomas Sarah SOUTHGATE
1802 01/Jun BUXTON Maria Henry Mary SOUTHGATE
1804 05/Feb BUXTON Henry Henry Mary SOUTHGATE .
.
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Earl Stonham blomfields...
Ham Blomfield 1755 m Mary Cooper
children
Mary
Ham
Harriet
Amy Blomfield 1754 m John Wink
Barrington Blomfield Syer 1755 m Elizabeth Chevallier
children all Blomfield-Syer or either or depending where you look!!!
Edward
Frederick
harriet
Fanny
Ellen
Jane
William
sophia
maria
John Blomfield 1725
Stephen Blomfield 1780 m Hannah Elmer
Susanna Blomfield 1725 m (unknown)
child
Samuel Blomfield 1748
Ezekiel Blomfield 1770
Sarah Blomfield 1783
Gregory Blomfield
Bennet Blomfield
(late 1500's brothers)
Isaac William Blomfield 1754 m Sarah wheyman
children
sarah
susan
sarah
elizabeth
phoebe
isaac
martha
john
you never know it may help someone somewhere!
Yi Win
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What a brilliant collection of info Yi Win - many thanks for this, which means I'll spend another evening playing with Blomfields..... Ah, this is the life!
Regards to you all,
Greensleeves
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Hi Yi Win, Thankyou for that. sorry to say that is the same info I have in the online parish records, still nothing to link backwards out of woolpit. looks like Peter holds the key. John.
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Hi youngtug,
what is the earliest Blomfield you have - who they married dates and location - I'll see if I can get any further info from my cousins who may just have jotted something down on paper - unrelated to our tree but stumbled across and left because we cant link it in - its a long shot but has worked before!
There are 2 Peters I am in touch with - not sure which is the one you are refering.
I will Pm to ask as do not wish to put names on here!
Yi Win
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Hi Yi Win - I don't know if you have seen this post on GR:
I have a document of the will of my ancestor, and the lawyer who wrote and signed it was CHARLES BLOMFIELD.
The document was in 1786, so they need to have been around 18-60 years old at this time.
The place is around the EARL STONHAM, SUFFOLK area, if that rings any bells.
The post is a few years old, but if you're interested I could check to see if the offer still stands.
Regards,
Greensleeves
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Hi Geensleeves,
may be worth checking up if you can.
Yi :)
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Will do Yi Win, and I'll report back if I get a positive response.
Greensleeves
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Right, where are we.... First Yi, I have sent a message to the person who posted on GR and will let you know if I get a positive response.
Secondly John, you may be interested to know there is a tree on An*ry which gives Peter Bloomfield's father as Hammond Blomfield 1634-1712 born Wetheringsett who married Anne Bartlett 1635-1708 born Rishangles. Wetheringsett is fairly close to Earl Stonham so we might be getting somewhere. I have sent a message to the tree owner asking if they would be prepared to divulge their sources. It would be good if we could receive something positive from this - fingers crossed!
Hi Pat, I expect you're still following these posts! Am sure we'll get to Fram sooner or later...
Regards, Blo(o)mfield Hunters :)
Greensleeves
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I am following the posts as at the moment I have little information on my Blumfield connection (have not yet had enough time to persue them).
My Stephen Blumfield's wife, Mary nee Bridges was the last person interred at Framlingham churchyard, he was already in a rather large tomb by the church door.
Pat ...
PS you can hear me on http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p006xygs/Lesley_Dolphin_18_03_2010/
:-[
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Ah, Blo(o)mfield Hunters, sadly the A*ry lead was false, albeit made in good faith. The owner of the tree has been very helpful and says she will remove the reference to Hammond, for which she has no sources because this was given to her by another researcher. She too has the same info about Peter that we have, so we're all pursuing the same quarry! I will follow up the leads she has given and report back if anything comes of them.
Greensleeves
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Thanks for that link Pat - makes me feel very homesick for Suffolk....
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As with so much on A*****ry. I will keeep trawling the web looking for a clue. In the meantime, in case anyone wants them, I found these at St, Nicholas, Ipswich, PRs. [transcribed book];=Henrye, son to John Blumfield. christened-aug, 1546./// Adam Blomfield & Magett Willett,married,1549.////William Blumfield & Marie Mariot married 24-apr-1625./// Arthure Seigno? & Dorothy Blomfield married 28-aug-1637./// Mr. John Blumfield. sol. & Mrs. Margret Soriell marryed by Caue Becke Clarke 27-july-1682./// Samuel Blomfield sol. & Jane Cook sol. both of Ipswich, married by licence 6-jan-1708./// There are lots more, I must get them all together and see what connections I can make.
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Oh dear, I fear this reply is off topic ... but
If anyone does want to listen to 'Suffolk' the Lesley Dolphin afternoon programme is called 'All about Suffolk' and she visits a different village or town area every weekday afternoon. there are also interviews with local people and craftmen/women etc.
You can listen again, as with the iplayer link above, or go to BBC Radio Suffolk and listen on line live.
Today she is visiting Great Cornard - and I am struggling to help her with that one ::)
www.bbc.co.uk/Suffolk
Pat ...
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Hi,
well I dont mind you going off topic coz it's an interesting item that we may want to know about! So in a way its relevant! :)
Greensleeves - sorry about the Peter link but.....
in your travels through Ipswich you havent bumped into a William Blomfield and Mary perhaps born c1650?
Son William b 1676 so the parents birth dates are just a calculated guess!
2nd son Robert b 1679 married Alice.
Would be very interested to find info re their parents (Will and Mary) or furhter back if pos.
Cheers
Yi Win
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As a matter of interest I am sure you would have seen this, but for those that have not;- http://historyandmystery.homestead.com/BlomfieldData.html
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Hi,
Yes it's very interesting - I am in touch with Grace and we've been swopping info!
;D - cheers!
Yi
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Hi there Yi Win, did you get in touch with me re my website? I must have forgotten, but please do again, one never knows what we will turn up...with the help of some very good genealogists we have taken our particular branch of Blomfield s back to 1488 all very exciting and of course still heaps to do, please do get in touch Yi Win, I would be very interested to see if your Blomfield line connects to our tree.....good luck all in your search, it gets very addictive!:>)
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HI,
yes we have been in touch - have sent yo ua link.
Would love to know where you are at 1488
Have gone back to William C but via the main de Blunvil marrying the de Burgh family which is linked into my branch by several marriages but as my line is also Blomfield/Blomvyle the male line on my branch must link back to the main Newton Flotham one - would be so interested to see your tree to see if you have any missing info that may help me!
I am stuck about 1450 with a gap of a generation to a possible (grt?) grandparents of c1365 and then theres several options of which sub branch we sprung from but possibly Robert de Blunvil/Blomvyle and Elizabeth de Brayston could be good - right time right area and have a son and grandson for them and then a 'gap' so no links yet!
All good fun
Yi
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Well Yi Win, doesn't our Blonville /Blomfield tree look great now, thanks for your imput, we have jumped back 5 generation now to 1335, great stuff!! my French partner has just informed me that the spelling of Blomvyle in French is BLOMVILLE, so that sounds right as our in that our forbears came from Blomville de Sur on the Normandy Coast-France 1020, it is said before William the Conqueror of 1066, its getting very exciting! :)
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We might have called him William the Conqueror but of course the French knew him as Guillaume le Bâtard (William the bastard) as he was the illegitimate son of Robert le Magnifique.
How exciting to make these discoveries, William was born along the coast of Normandy at Falaise (though mostly remembered now for WWII).
I am sure my tenuous Blumfield connection will stray no further than Suffolk/Norfolk (other Suffolk twigs and branches have led to Norfolk in the 1400s).
Well done yew tew t'gether :D
Pat ...
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Thanks Pat, its getting very exciting, also I am informed by the Frenchman, that Blomville de sur in fact is Blonville sur Mer, thats interesting about William, lol a lot of that around in those days it appears:>)
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Hi,
This is the info I have on Richard de Blunvil - the earliest de Blunvil I have.
Of course I can not guarantee all of it is correct!
born c1015-1114 d c1050-1187
location of birth Blonvil in Calvados, Normandy
held land in Coln & Serdeleshey
subtenant to Hubert de Monte Caniso/Canisi (Hubert de Rie)
NOTE:- he is NOT recorded on the abbey rolls as coming over with William The C. - however Robert Count de Montaigne (1/2 brother to William C) DID come over as a close advisor to William and a decendent of his married Ralph de Blunvil - this Richard's grandson.
Richard de BLUNVILL was born in Blonville in Calvados, Normandy, France. He died after 1086. Had a grant of land in Sterleshey in Colne Engaine, Essex.
He had the following children:
William de BLUNVILL
Richard de BLUNVILL died before 1198.
Walter de BLUNVILL died after 1149.
Richard de Blonville who was the subtenant to Hubert de Monte Caniso, near Blonville, Normandy in 1086. from whom were descended the following, Robert de Blondeville (or Blmeville) living in 1190 in Newton Flotman, Norwich, England, Sir William de Blomvyle, the Constable of Corfe Caste and thomas de Blumville, the Bishop of Norwich in 1226, formerly constable of the Tower of London (1224) and nephew of Hugh de Burgh.
Note: It was normal for a land owner (hubert) to have the same subtenants (Richard) in Normandie as in England.
De Blunvil name:-
This interesting name is of Norman French origin, introduced into England after the Conquest of 1066; it is a good example of the subsequent Anglicizing of foreign placenames to resemble native placename elements. Looking wholly English but being wholly French, the name is locational and derives from the village of Blonville-sur-Mer in Calvados, Normandy. The first element is an Old Norse personal name, the second is the Old French "ville", meaning settlement. The various modern spellings include Blomefield, Blomfield and Blumfield. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William de Blunwill, which was dated 1207, the Hundred Rolls of Suffolk, during the reign of King John, known as "Lackland", 1199 - 1216
de blunvill
The surname of BLOOMFIELD was a locational name 'of de Blundeville' a place near Normandy, France. The name was brought to England in the wake of the Norman Conquest of 1066, and is familiar to Norfolk and Suffolk. It is known as the Domesday Book. Early records of the name mention William de Blundeville, 1273 County Norfolk
L C SEIR
THE ORIGIN.
In point of age, the family ranks as one of the oldest in East Anglia, and, for the, facts concerning its origin, the Writer is indebted to an excellent account by Sir Reginald Blomfield. R.A., published privately in 1910 by The Chiswick Press, entitled " A Suffolk Family. Being an account of the family of Blomfield in Suffolk.”
It appears the family migrated from the little village of Blomville, on the Normandy coast.
Like a great many early English surnames, this was derived from its original place of settlement. For instance, entries on local (Colchester) Manorial Court Rolls contain records as follows : John atte Fen, Matthew atte Wood, which in time became John Fenn and Matthew Wood. In a similar way, we find the first record of this family is Robert de Blomeville living in 1190. He was, therefore, Robert of Blomvile, in Normandy.
Tanner Manuscripts contain six pedigrees of the family, all bearing the same Arms, which were: Quarterly, per fess, indented Agrent and Azure, a Bend, Gules.
Crest: A lozenge, gules, between two wings erect, sometimes without the lozenge.
It is interesting to note that these Arms and Crest are derived from the Barony of Rye, Normandy, and that such Barony owned the Manor of Newton Flotman, from which a fair presumption may be formed of the connection and origin of the original settlers in Norfolk with Blomville.
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Point of interest for those wanting to go back further.
Robert de Montagne appears to be decended from Baldwin II count of Flanders and Baldwins wife was the daughter of Alfred The Great.
No I havent looked into this in any detail to find out if it is true or not!
Robert de Montagne's family became de Burgh and de Burgh married into de Blunvil producing our ancestors.
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PS - it is also possible that a de burgh ancestor married the illigitamate daughter of Loius VII of France - Anges Capet m Adhelm de Burgh producing the offspring that married Ralph de Blunvil.
From what I can gather the de Bugh family married into as much royalty or high placing families as possible!
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PPS Agnes Capet and Robert de Montagne are both supposed to have Charlemange as an ancestor!
I know nothing for sure.
Yi ;D
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Dear old Charlemagne, didn't Stephen Fry recently say on an edition on QI that all with European ancestry can claim a link to Charlemagne?
However, yours does sound more genuine than those of us with an incredibly tenuous link 8)
Pat ...
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Hi,
Time will tell but so far the link seems genuine although the trees on line have Agnes Capet (m Adhelm) as the daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine and Loius but her daughter was Agnes (Alice) who married Theobold??? or Alix (sister to Mary) - cant remember off top of my head.
Louis had 2 wives - one had Alix and Mary the other Agnes (Alice)
and his illigitamate daughter Agnes was by mistress Eleane Poiton - so they say.........
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Hi,
A little more info for those who have an interest in just how far back thier Blomfield ancestry goes......
Yi'S LINE
is decended from
Charlomagne The Great Holy Roman Empire
down through both his sons Pepin (Carloman) King of Italy and Charles The Younger, Duc de Ingelheim, King of Aquitaine Holy Roman Empire as follows....
Peppin to Agnes Capet m Adhelm de Burgh
Charles to Robert de Montagne grandfather of Adhelm de Burgh
Adhelm de Burgh and Agnes Capets daughter married Ralph De Blunvil
from this came the Blomvyle family of Newton Flotman and Stonham Parva, the House Mowness and Four Elms Pedigree from which Yi decends.
love and smiles Yi ;)
(take it with a pinch of salt please)
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Thanks very much for that Yi WIn, some of it we had but it would be sooooo interesting to make the French connection..hmmmm ever onward onward Bloms!!!! 8)
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Hi Lady Grace,
as I've already said there is a 'gap' in our Blomvyle line back on the direct male side to the De Blunvil pedigree (the female side marries back into the main De blunvil line several times when the main line become more commonly known as blomfield) - HOWEVER the main branch and our branch have the same coat of arms.
I live in faith of finding the 'gap' and hope to gain access to some Wills as soon as I have time to look them up and get copies of them.
I am hoping Sunnylew and the mounds of knowledge he has will help nudge me along the right direction as soon as I have time.
Will keep you posted!
Love to all those 'Bloms' out there.
Yi
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Yi Win, yes if we can link definetely to the Newton Flotam de Blonville branch we are home and hosed, that would take us back to 1086 ( EVB pedigree) its getting very exciting.... we will keep searching lol 8) ever onwards Bloms!
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Lets put all the 'Blomvyle' heads together and see if we can get that link - we know its there!!! We have location, coat of arms, we just do not know yet which son started the Stonham line from the Newton one!
Yi ;D
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Hi guys and girls,
Ok so I've exhausted all known (to me ???) ways of trying to gain access to early records for geneaology so can anyone out there help - need to get some records of Stonham area for Blomvyle families c 1400's.
Any ideas? ::)
and if anyone wants to suggest a profesional geneaologist please suggest where you get one from! ;D
really need to dig deeper to fill in a few 'gaps' and would love to know how to go about it.
AND a BIG THANKS to all those who have helped do far.
Yi :)
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I would agree there Yi Lin, its virtually impossible to go any further without the correct paperwork...I did come across this in my copy of A Suffolk Family, thought its important but can't link it..who is Richard Blonvyle? he doesn't show on any of our Family Blomvyle/Blomfield charts to date, unless he could be the 1400 unnamed Blonvyle on the Family Tree chart?
and I don't think the William Blomvyle is the Monk of Bury-pity
"Though not stated anywhere it seems certain that WILLIAM BLOMEVYLE, younger brother of RICHARD BLOMEVYLE, who died in c 1490, settled in STONHAM in the 15th century(Sir Reginald Blomfield) "
this one could be important but who is Richard? 8)
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Looking at other charts I have, of course Richard is,
Richard Blomvyle 1405-1490 married to Catherine Ingloss, with a younger brother William Blomvyle alive in 1503, ...according to Sir Reginald Blomfield this William Blomvyle came to live in Stoneham, I was wondering if their Grandfather, a Sir William Blomvyle who held Newton in the year 1420, could possibly be our William Blomvyle c1366??? just a thought??? 8)
I note that between our Thomas Blomvyle 1415 and his brother Richard Blomvyle 1430, there is 15yrs gap, which would indicate more siblings..Also I think their Father's dates must be wrong as it at the present time makes him only 15yrs old when he fathered Thomas b c1415...? :-\
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Will PM details of a professional genealogist - I know she got back to the signing of the Magna Carta for one family 8)
Pat ...
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Hi,
Lady Grace,
I can answer your message Re William & Richard.
"Though not stated anywhere it seems certain that WILLIAM BLOMEVYLE, younger brother of RICHARD BLOMEVYLE, who died in c 1490, settled in STONHAM in the 15th century(Sir Reginald Blomfield) "
Yes William was the younger brother of Richard and on the main de Blunvil branch of Newton Flotman. Thier parents were William Blomville and Elizabeth de Bosville.
Richard was b after1405 and d c 1490 he held Newton Flotman and lived at Asby Manor, he also owned Gunton Manor.
William settled in Little Stonham, he had a son William to a wife unknown and had a son William who married Ann Cutting.
The decendents of William and Ann on several occasions married in later generations into the Blomvyle/Blomfield family already settled there.
We know there was already a family of Blomvyle's in Stonham because we have a Will of one Gilbert dated 1416 from Stonham who clearly states (for info I had the Will professionally translated from the Latin) that he had brothers John and William in Stonham.
So I am assuming (and it is an assumption) that Gilbert Blomvyle c1450 is a decendent of one of either John nor William .
Gilbert's son seems to have re-located to London with his family, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that they came back to Stonham - the Will states the location of his son so we know he where he went.
The dates do fit with classing Gilbert as an offsroping of William + Ann in Stonham but thier children are all listed and there is no Gilbert mentioned amongst them.
Also if names run in families it seem likely that Gilbert c1450 is of the line of Gilbert d1416.
Who knows - this is what we are going to have to find out.
AND - where did the Stonham Blomvyles come from - which generation did they break off from the main De Blunvil line.
NOTE: - I have used the varying spelling to differenciate between the 2 branches but the De Blunvil and Blomvyles all end up and seem to start with the same spellings - I have just used the 2 to make each branch stand apart from each other - it is in no way a definitive spelling of either.
however one thing is for certain they have the same coat of arms!
who is Richard Blonvyle?
Richard is the son of William Blomville and Elizabeth de Bosville (as mentioned above) - he is from the Newton Flotman branch - which I phrase as the 'main' branch for no other reason than this line is well documented and seems to be the line of inherited 1st sons.
William Blomville's parents (according to the Pedigree) are Nicholas Blumvil and Elizabeth Paston.
Richard Blomvyle 1405-1490 married to Catherine Ingloss, with a younger brother William Blomvyle alive in 1503, ..
yup - thats the one!
Sir Reginald Blomfield this William Blomvyle came to live in Stoneham - yup - we are along the same lines here!!!! :)
I was wondering if their (grt) Grandfather, a Sir William Blomvyle who held Newton in the year 1420, could possibly be our William Blomvyle c1366??? j
It could well be although I've not come across another child of his unaccounted for but that doesnt mean he hasnt got more kids than are stated. - he has 3 known kids Richard, Nicholas and Margaret - however that means nothing at all really.
We are looking at 3 brothers John, William and Gilbert all born in Stonham and Gilbert died in 1416 - assuming he lived to a ripe old age (age not stated in Will) say 60??? which is as you say 1366(ish).
I would say that as William lived and raised his family in Newton Flotman it is not he! (dont quote me on that it is all theory here!)
Someone moved to Stonham prior to say 1366 - maybe earlier we dont know who the eldest sibling was.
This brings us to the earlier branches where several sons are mentioned with no families attached - ours could be from any of these.
The BIG question is which!
There is a branch living in Monk Soham that I cant trace back or forward apart from a few generations but they could possibly be from Richard de Blunvil and Elizabeth de Braydeston - but only because the dates fit father to son and nothing else - no actual link.
As several ladies from Monk Soham marry into the Stonham Blomvyles there may be a possible link - there was contact of some sort between the 2 places.
So ever onwards hey ho!!
Yi
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Hi suffolkmawther,
Thanks that will be really great.
time for a little expert help here me thinks ;) ??? ::) :-\
Yi
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Hi,
It is thought by some that Robert and Elizabeth de Braydeston had no kids but.....
EV Blomfield's book of Blomfield Pedigrees says....
Mr Claude Morely of Monks Soham House in Framlingham Suffolk writes..
"it was Woodcroft Manor on Monk Soham and not the main Manor of Monk Soham that the Blomville's owned. I believe your William De Blomvyle, son of the original Robert of 1190 must have married a de Soham. These de Soham's began with Simon 1194, his son Lord of Woodcroft 1195-1225 his grt grandson was Sir Ralph de Soham"
Morely refers to an undated deed of gift executed by Roger Bigod 1225-1262 Witnessed by Robert and Will de Soham and Will Blomville in Blomfield s Norfolk 1806 chap V p 435.
1275
Manor of Blomvile's or Woodcroft Hall.
This was the estate of Oslac the thane in the Confessor's time, and
formed part of the lands held by Hugh de Montfort in early Norman days.
In 1275 the lordship seems to have been in Adam le Carpenter, for he had
" bortrem " and assize of bread and beer here. It subsequently passed to
John Blomvile, and in 1460 was vested in John Caldewell.
I only have one Robert that was there in 1190 and he married Elizabeth.
Hence my de Soham thread trying to see if anyone knew a link between de Soham and Blomvyle!
Yi
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I notice on Pedigree of Sir Reginald Blomfield 1190, inserted between Sir William Blomevyle, wife Elizabeth 1420 Newton Flotman, and Richard Blomvyle & Catherine, ( & brother William Blomvyle 1503 ), there is another William Blomevyle? but no date ,no wife no abode? hmmmm??
Thanks for the in depth explanation 8)
we WILL crack it!
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Hi,
How strange??
I dont seem to have this 'other' William and he's not on either of the 2 pedigree Charts I have!
however I do not have Sir Reginald Blomfield's Pedigree chart to view.
AND.... you never know 'strays' appear out of the wood work all the time.
You just never know what to believe and I take everything with a pinch of salt - who knows is right and wrong.
I wonder who this William is?
Yi ;)
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Just a little bit more for the stew; I came across the visitations of norfolk 1563-1613 on line and it does tie in with an earlier post by Yi Win although the spelling is again different. ;- Sir William Blundeville. === William Blundeville & Elizabeth, daughter of .... Boswell.=== Richard Blondeville of Newton Flockman[Flotman in Norfolk. ob. 1400] & Catherine daughter and heir of Rob. Ynglose. esq,.=== Rafe Blundeville of Newton Flokman in Norfolk. ob. 1514. & Constance daughter of William Gorney of bassam in Norfolk [Gurney of Bassam] (( other children listed; Richard, Catherine and Mary Blundeville's..)===Edward Blundeville. ob. 1568 & Elizabeth daughter of tho, God,,. Catherine=2 daughter of Sir .... Hubarte, kn, . Also John Blundeville of Brumstead in Norfolk. & Margaret daughter of William Other,,,,. Not sure wether this will help or not.
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oh WOW!
Well done youngtug!
Dont suppose yo uhave a link to that site?
Any more info ?
thats like a little gold mine of info!!!!
keep it coming!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yi
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Here you are; http://uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Norfolk/visitation/index.html
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It is number 40. The next page is a continuation of the tree, looks like the line came to an end, or at least the ones followed.
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Also found, not sure where, but;- history by Ralph Stevens. Labbourne. Essex. the parish church. St, Mary and all saints. Floor slabs.; Here lies interred ye body of Robert Blomfield, Gent. who died on ye 31st of august in the year of our lord 1602. And also of his three grandsons, of whom John was interred January ye 23rd, 1642. Thomas was buried April ye 7th, 1644 and also Mr, John Blomfield was buried December ye 15th 1687. These three last were the sons of Mr. John Blomfield, Gent.
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Your brilliant!
Looks facinating - any other little gems up your sleeve?
Had a quick look but will look more in depth when have more time - may be able to add a few things to the tree from here.
Cheers
Yi
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In 1523 Thomas Bell, George Blomevyll and James Scarlet of Nekton conveyed to Edmund Saloppe [?] and others a messuage with 12 acres and a half in Nekton.( including six acres apud shodgate[?] ) which they had from George Waller an? Will . Wilby, ut in cant. 13th Henry V111. West and East Bradenham, Necton and Holme Hale. Norfolk.
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In 1526, 17th May. 18th Henry V111, George Blomefylde of Necton made a feoffment to Sir Richard Bedingfeld, Knt, and Ralph Cooke, clerk, of a messuage and 13a 3r 0p in Nekton, which, they by deed 28th January, 20th Henry V111, conveyed to Thomas Echard of Great Yarmouth and others. [ I think its a c in Echard, have a job to read my writing ::)]
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Hi,
Just off to bed here but I dont know much about the Blomevyll's in Norfolk - I have a branch of them but it only goes down to 1400's from the main de Blunvil line - I have nothing going up but would love to trace the Norfolk side!
I wonder how he fit's in.
Will look at the other stuff later - must go to bed now!!!
you must be night owl!
Yi
-
Ikeep looking but still not out of Woolpit. goodnight.
-
Cant remember but have you got the parish records or contacted the church to view them - they may give you a location clue to work back on.
-
Only the online transcribed ones. Will have to look at the originals or fiche/photo copies when I can.
-
The originals may throw up some info that you dont have - it's worth a go! i was amazed at the amount of bits i could fill in from them.
The visitations of norfolk 1563-1613 has prooved no end of info - I've managed to fill in a few wives, fathers of wives etc - cheers.
-
Re
Robert Blomfield, Gent. who died on ye 31st of august in the year of our lord 1602.
I've not got this branch on my tree but I'm sure anyone who has would be interested.
I dont think we are ever going to get all bracnhes on one tree!!!
If only!
Yi
PS Good luck with your Woolpitt hunting
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this post just a mistake, sorry.
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Hello
Thank you for your kind offer to have a look at the Earl Stonham Suffolk records, I wonder if you would be able to help.
I have Elizabeth Hunt or clarke (father William) born c1791 she seems to have married a man called Clarke, I think, and had several children, none of the childrens births have a father mentioned. She later in 1842 married John Last.
The reason I thought she must have been a 'Hunt' was on a record for her marriage to John Last it said brides father William Hunt.
I wonder if you would be able to give me any further information
Thank you
Mandy Macdonald
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Hi,
The Earl Stonham records I have unfortunately are only for the period 1800-1806.
The are 2 Hunt births mentions (posibly siblings of Elizabeth) but nothing more.
This link...
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~engdorse/EARL_STONHAM3.html
has a John Last birth on it but its 1775.
It is most likely if the father is down as Hunt that she would be a Hunt but her 1st married surname would be the name she would have been recorded under on her 2nd marriage.
Hope that helps in soem way.
Yi
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Hi BLOOMFIELD hunters & what a thread!! I have a link back to JOHN BLOOMFIELD m. ESTHER BATHO 1795 in BENHALL, Suffolk but have not been able to factually trace JOHN back any further back...... can anyone help at all :)
Thanks in advance
Yvonne (Nee Bloomfield)
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Hi Kriywan,
I will have a look at the records I have to see if I can see a link anywhere.
For the other Blomfield hunters....
2 links for the origins of the Stonham Blomfields.
1 possibility is a decendent of John Blomfield of Woodcroft Hall a branch of the Newton Flotman Blomfields. John was there 1275
The 2nd poossibility is a link further back (ie before they settled Newton Flotman) via Richard (Dayv's MSS) who's line settled in Ufford, Boulge and Burgh - ther decendents there can be traced to 1316 in this area.
As to any further no luck yet.
As to why they moved to Mendlesham and Diss heres the land records which shed light.
The eldest son inherited the fathers manor,
The 2nd son inherited the mothers,
the 3rd son inherited land held by the father in Mendlesham
and the 4th son inherited the land held by the father in Diss
- hence very early on we have the family in 4 locations due to inheritance.
it also shows why marrying well was greatly desired at this time because the more land you had the more you had to share out to your male children - the less you had the less the sons got.
It seems that the case of the eldest inherits all wasnt so at this period of time - it was more of the fathers property (including his wifes inheritence/dowry) was parceled out to the sons - if the sons didnt marry well and increase thier lands the family lines had to find other means to live and became yeoman or tanners etc.
Hope that helps
Yi ;)
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Hi Kriywan,
IGI have her as Esther Bathe.
It is quite possible that neither were born in Benhall - you would probably need totry and get in touch with the Suffolk Records Office for a look at the parish records or see if anyone on the Suffolk Lookups here has the Benhall records - thier marriage record may have the birth location of each of them listed so that you can continue.
Unfortunately for you I do not have any Blomfield families listed in Benhall on my tree either as a birth or marriage location.
You could try and contact St Mary's church direct?
Thier children are also recorded on IGI as (not in DOB order)
William, Esther, Esther, John, Charles, Sarah, Mary, Hannah
all with surname varients of Bloomfield, Blumfield and mainly Blomfield.
I have however found this for you on another site....
link:-
http://www.family-forest.co.uk/familytree/groups/grpf00502.shtml
info...
John Bloomfield & Esther Batho
John Bloomfield
Born: 1768 in Benhall, Suffolk
Died: 1828 in Benhall, Suffolk
Wife: Esther Batho
Born: 12 AUG 1776 in Benhall, Suffolk
Died: 1857 in Benhall, Suffolk
Father: John Batho
Mother: Rachel Broom
Children
(M): John Bloomfield
Born: about 1796 in Benhall, Suffolk Spouses: Elizabeth Markham
(M): William Bloomfield
Born: about 1799 in Benhall, Suffolk Spouses: Susannah Wade
(F): Ester Bloomfield
(F): Hannah Bloomfield
(F): Sarah Bloomfield
(M): James Bloomfield Born: about 1822 in Halesworth, Suffolk, England
Spouses: Lousia ?
(F): Maria Bloomfield Born: 1815 in Benhall, Suffolk Died: 1839
(M): Charles Bloomfield
(M): William Bloomfield
If this is NOT your personal site then the Batho family is listed quite a way back.
There is a Stephen Blomfield in the area in 1668 mentioned in The National Archives...
Stephen Blomfield, Esq. of Gray's Inn 16 Oct 1668
If John indeed was born in Benhall then the Parish records should have his parents listed!
Clear as mud and probably doesnt really help you but may give you some ideas as to where to look and at this stage, sadly, you may have to part with a few quid to get yoru answers!
Suffolk Records Office does allow you to purchase sections in years so you dont have to buy the whole thing!
have fun
Yi
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Wow....THANKS Guys & Gals for the info..... off to digest!! The family is right - my link is to the CHARLES b. in 1818 to my Father b. 1912 in Middlesborough.
If I can help anyone .... let me know & I'll probably be back!!
Thanks again
Yvonne
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Hi Kriywan,
Have you looked at this site....
http://www.curiousfox.com/surnames/Bloomfield_1.html
or for Blomfield Benhall...
http://www.curiousfox.com/uk/rsn.lasso?vid=13265&eid=46667&-nothing
there are several people enquiring about your John Blomfield but I do not know if any are you though so you may have already contacted them for info.
This link..
http://www.curiousfox.com/history/suffolk_5.html
(same site)
also lists Blomfields at Benhall at the correct time. Any could prove a link to your John !
Have fun
Yi
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Hi,
Just in case anyone is interested out there I've created a spread sheet of the Stonham Blomfields I have with their decendents showing the movments and locations of the families and how they've spread out from Stonham.
If anyone wants a copy PM me with your email address.
Yi
(of the Stonham and Mendlesham Blomfields - but it shows where other branches settled too)
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This might be of interest;- Sorry I cannot seem to get the shrinklink to work, have tried, now Suffolkmawther has done it, so please scroll down to see the links.
-
.
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URL No. 1 ~ http://www.rootschat.com/links/09qp/
URL No. 2 ~ http://www.rootschat.com/links/09qq/
(using LINK SHRINKER as recommended by Rootschat) ;D
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Thank you for that suffolkmawther, I cannot seem to get the shrinklink to work for me,although the first link does not seem to be working. If, on the second link you go to home, you can then enter any name in the search. [the first link was Blomfield]
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Ooooooooooops!
Not sure what has happened to that first link ???
It seems to have died?
I did shrink them then had a look at them and was amazed at the amount of Blo/omfield info.
Will modify my post ::)
Pat ...
added later - that seems to be working again now ;)
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Hi all
I have been busy working on my Durham Sedgwick/Sidgwick family, but with all these new links, I see I shall have to return to my Suffolk line without delay!
Regards,
GS
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Hi,
Both links working - brill!
Thanks for the info!
Yi
PS think that 1st Mary under Blomfield maybe one of mine!
-
Maybe we should have a Blo
- mfield information thread to cover all, failing that, heres more; http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=75137
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Also; http://www.british-history.ac.uk/image.aspx?compid=77146&filename=fig98.gif&pubid=428
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Hi Youngtug,
thanks for that - i've a radulfus on a branch of my tree -worth looking into to seeing if it's him in your link and I've also some Fersfield blomfields on my tree - will have to see if they tie in!
Will let you know.
Yi
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Hi,
1st link.
Yes Richard Blomvyle who married Catherine is on my tree and the Radulphus appears to be his son.
This is the info I have on him....
Names used:-
Blomville / Blomvil / Blundeville
Ralph / Radulphus / Rafe
EV Book of Blomfield Pedigrees:-
in 1571 Thomas the last head of the family put up a memorial in the church of Newton Flotman to his father, grandgather and grt grandfather
Richard Blondeville ob 1490 aged 85
Radulphus ob 1514 aged 45
Edwardus ob 1568 aged 75
the arms impale those of Inglosse, Gurney, Godsalve, Johnson and Puttenham
Ralph married Constance Gurney
Ralph married Constance of the House of Gourney in Norfolk in 1498 (from Pedigree of Gourney) he was married in West Barham(?) and inherited the Manor of Gurton from his brother Richard
Davys MSS
Radulphus Blomvil Esquire died 22.04 1515 he had a son Edward Blomvil who was his heir who died 1568 aged 75
Radulphus owned the Manor of Gurney (Pedigree of Gurney)
Constance eldest sister of Anthony Gurney marreid 1st Ralf Blundeville of Newton Flotman, gentleman, and 2nd William Bohem. The Blundevilles were possessed of Newton Flotham as early as the 3CI regin of King John and retained it many generations, there is a brass to this family of whom Ralph is one he died in 1514
Constance in her Will gave
Edmund Blomville/Blundeville a cup an cover silver gilt
William 2 silver salts and other plate
Sir John Blomvyle, priest, other legacies
visitations of norfolk 1563-1613 on line :-
Sir William Blundeville & Elizabeth, daughter of .... Boswell.
Richard Blondeville of Newton Flockman[Flotman in Norfolk. ob. 1400]
& Catherine daughter and heir of Rob. Ynglose. esq,
.
Rafe Blundeville of Newton Flokman in Norfolk. ob. 1514.
& Constance daughter of William Gorney of Bassam in Norfolk
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Hi,
2nd link is facinating - I dont supose you can read on your copy what it says about the John died 1548 says on the last few lines could you?
(to the left of Henry Blomefiled of Fersfield gent)
cheers
Yi
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I looked at that, far as I can make out; John Blomfield, esq. died without issue about 1548. He was descended from sir Henry Broumflete, alias; Bromefield, Knt,. who lived in the time of King Henry V1 and was one of those sent ---- ----- ------ ---- the council of Basil, at which time he bore the [[sheild arms]] with this John. I cannot read the bit in the crease, also not certain about the "sheild arms". I think Basil is Basel in Switzerland, there was[I think] a council of Basel dissolved about 1445 and moved to Florence, must look it up. If so then we may be able to find some record somewhere [it was the catholic church]
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I may be a little out on the dates and information about the council of Basel, I really will have to look it up, in the meantime this is interesting; http://www.archive.org/stream/lacrisereligieus01valouoft#page/232/mode/2up
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So what it is saying is that the John who went to Basel had the same coat of arms as the Henry mentioned here gent of Fersfield! In other words they are related.
I was wondering who the John d 1548 was!
and they are decended from Henry approx 1422-1471
hmm.... lots of food for thought!
Cheers - Yi
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Henry went to Basel. If it is the representation de l'angletere in the link I put on then the date was 14th july 1433. Which would tie in with King Henry the 6th who reigned from 1422 to 1461 [ and again briefly from 1470 to 1471] Although it may have been a different trip to Basel. John who died in 1548 was descended from the Henry that went to Basel. So, a son or grandson of this Henry. The John that he bore the shield arms with , is lost in the crease. Unless it means the John descended from him, but that does not make sense.
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Hi Youngtug,
Unless it means the John descended from him, but that does not make sense.
cheers - thats what I thought too - has to be another John!
-
hi,
There is a John on my tree who died in 1548 in Bury St Edmunds but he married and had children!
ah - well maybe somebody will link John & the elder Henry in somewhere!
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Don't know if this makes any difference to anything... 8)
Little Stonham is the english for Stonham Parva, "little" in latin is "parvus, Interesting that they used the feminine "parva" as both TOWN(oppidum) avd VILLAGE(pagus) are masculine.
so our search continues....... :)
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Hi,
Just to add to Grace's comment one of the Stonham's was also know as Stonham-Jernegan for a while after the Jernegan family who owned property and land there !
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Hi YI Win..can we fit these guys in anywhere, they look promising, or have you got them already?
Calendar of charters and rolls preserved in the Bodleian library.....
William de Blomvile, son of Richard de Blomvile, quit-claims to
the prior and convent of Christ Church, Canterbury, and their
successors, all right and claim in one acre of land in Depeham,
which is called ' Schortacre/ lying between the land of Hamo the
priest on the east, and the land of William Boinbel on the west,
and one head abuts upon the King's street which leads towards
Norwich on the south, which acre William de Blum vile, his grand-
father, formerly granted to the same church..
(me) so thats William de Blumvile, the Grandfather, Richard ( Robert)? de Blomvile the son, [b]William de Blomvile ( Blomvyle, the grandson! These could be part of the early Blomvyle family tree? there must be daughter and wives too..to link in if we can find them.
What do you think?
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Hi Grace,
This is a complicated one and Iam not at my own computer so am having to remember bits as I've only access to the tree on Genes and not my main source file with all the notes attached.
William, the grandfather, was the son of the original Richard who came over from Calvados around the time of the Conqueror but Probably not with (ie as one of William's knights who invaded)
There is a link to our branch, hopefully a direct decent, but not yet found!
Ours are the Stonham Blomvyle's dating back to mid 1300's but we need to research a link via the Wills to find out which branch off the main line (ie the eldest sons line) we are from - it may never be found but there are several Wills I've not yet had translated which may help out - my latin isnt very good (non existant) so waiting for winter months a slow down of work to look into this.
HOWEVER....
This branch of de blunvil's (or however you spell it) inter-married several times with our Stonham branch - it would appear the 'ladies' were 'traded off' to keep property within the family.
I have an excel document which outlines this I can email it to you if you so wish - it is slightly easier to follow the branches and inter-marriages than the tree as i've coloured the branches and also stated what property was invovled in transactions by colouring the property as well.
I was trying to establish just how the Stonham and Newton Flotman branches were inter linked and who inherited the larger houses of the family and what became of the houses down to present day - most are now run as farms and classed as listed buildings.
I was also hoping to establish a link from the earliest Stonham gent to the other branches already documented from the line you mentioned but no luck as of yet - although we can rule it out to one or 2 people listed there may well be younger sons not listed and one of these became the gent in Stonham.
So currently havent progressed down any branch or up from our branch to find a direct link but do know there were several marriage links between the 2 branches.
The elder 2 gents I do not know who they married Ralph de Blunvil seems to have married a lady of the de Burgh family and the younger William a Margery de Soham.
This deduction is from documents stating who Ralph's uncles were via his wifes family (de Burgh's) and that William son of Ralph married into the de Soham family (property inheritance document) and that his wife is called Margery so that would kind of make her Margery de Soham!
Do you have access to my tree?
As it was linked by several marriages the line back to Richard born Calvados is on there even though our line stops mid 1300's.
I need to look at the Wills available or go one step further and employ a geneoligist to see if we can get that extra push!
Have fun
Amanda
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Manors of de Blomvile/Blomvyle/Blunderville/Blumville make very interesting reading as to how the Manors were won and lost by our kin.....
http:www.british-history.ac.uk/
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I have:
Robert de Blomville/Blondeville living 1190 Newton Flotman.. then
William Blomvyle c1200, brother Thomas de Blumville d 1236 Bishop of Norwich and nephew of Hugh de Burg
Richard de Blomvyle of Newton Flotman 1226
John de Blomvyle of Newton Flotman 1249 (davies)
William Blumvyle=Katherine widow 1317 Newton Flotman
William Blumvile 1334 Newton Flotman
William Blomvile =Katherine 1374 Newton Flotman
Richard Blomvile held Newton Flotman 1388
Sir Richard Blomvyle=Elizabeth (Davey) held Newton Flotman 1420
William Blomvyle who has 2 sons recorded,
one Richard Blomevyle=Catherine heiress of Richard Ingloss
second son recorded is
William Blomevyle(Davey) Stoneham Parva
and his son Willian Blomefield=Anne Cutting of Stoneham ParvaTanner MSS
somewhere above one or more of the younger siblings must have settled in Stoneham Parva re an inheritance settlement or similar, we just have to find the paper work of who they were....
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The little church at Stonham Parva is now redundant, it is looked after by the Churches Conservation Trust (there is a page of these churches on my website).
You can read more at Simon's web site http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/stonhamparva.htm
By the way, Stonham Parva is still known as Stonham Parva, not Little Stonham. Some villages have retained their old Latin names.
I live in Waldingfield Parva, which is now known as Little Waldingfield.
But you will find a few parishes still using their Latin names such as Fakenham Magna.
Pat ...
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Thanks for the interesting Link Pat ;)
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Yi what do you think of this, you have probably seen it before.... it gets confusing, ??? but mind I always wondered why Elizabeth English/Blomvile never names her first born after her father especially as she is an heiress? none of the boys are named after her father William, I must say I find that curious..... :o here's the link if you haven't seen it, no dates
BLOMEVILE Family
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~heatherk/i0000820.htm
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just another little snippet; http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66681 [about 8-9 chapters down]
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and this one is much better; http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=78155
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just a mention, half way down. http://www.roffe.co.uk/rolls.htm
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Thanks for those, choice! ;) who knows which snippet will hit the jackpot!! 8)
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Hi,
Re....
Yi what do you think of this, you have probably seen it before.... it gets confusing, Huh but mind I always wondered why Elizabeth English/Blomvile never names her first born after her father especially as she is an heiress? none of the boys are named after her father William, I must say I find that curious..... Shocked here's the link if you haven't seen it, no dates
BLOMEVILE Family
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~heatherk/i0000820.htm
I have this William as son of Robert who was son of Gilbert and Elizabeth.
The link given has this William as son of Gilbert and Elizabeth.
Elizabeth and Gilbert may have had a son called William who died and is not recorded or is just not recorded!
The line's I have giving the sons are from property inheritence and Wills.
William inherited the house Mownes from his father Robert. Robert was Gilbert's son.
It is possible the link given has just skipped a generation.
Or maybe they are privey to info we dont have.
I'll forward the property document to you later today but if you look up my tree
http://amandahan.tribalpages.com/
you can follow the line we are talking about and read the source notes.
password is storm
(and yes I am openly giving it out on here knowing it will be read and the tree accessed - it is not a private tree so giving the password is ok)
catch you later
Yi
will look at other links later too - cheers!
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Hi (again)!
Re....
just a mention, half way down. http://www.roffe.co.uk/rolls.htm
This could possibly be William de Blomvyle of the Newton Flotman line
likewise I think this is the Newton Flotman line again...
just another little snippet; http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66681 [about 8-9 chapters down]
brill!!! At least these 'snipets' confirm we have the right guys in the right timelines!
The more things that all add up the better.
Yi
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there is another line down OTHER than the Newton Flotman line....
Davy's MSS
Richard de blomville
of Bulcamp in Henham
time R1 1189-1199 (death dates)
H de Blomville
Hen de Blomville 1E1 = 1272-1273 (died)
H de Blomville 25E1 = 1296-1297
John de Blomville 33E1 = 1304-1305
Henry de Gundesburgh 2E3 of Wetunhale (Wigenhale) 25 JAn 1328-1329
5E3 = 1331 = 1332
R de Blonville 1345-1349
John De Blonville
we could be a branch off either!
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I was writing this out to make it easier to understand than the original, then I lost the page :-X, so at the moment it is all I have until I find the site again. ; Newton Hall. The manor of Blundevilles.
- William de Blundeville [Blomevyle or Blummel]
- Richard [son] lord in 1226. [nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich
- William Blumvyle
- succeeded by his widow Katherine
William- in 1388 Richard Blumvyle held the manor
- and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq,
Richard Blomevyle esq,- suceeded by Catherine his wife
- Richard, their son who died in 1503
- succeeded by Ralph, his brother who died in 1514
- Edward, his son. died in 1568
Thomas, his son, held a court baron & lete in 1569
sorry, no more, a little jumbled, but I was copying the descendancy. Will look for it again when I can.
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Hi,
I have these additions which may fill in some gaps and be handy......
Newton Hall. The manor of Blundevilles.
* William de Blundeville c1121
Held: Serdeleshey, Little Colne: (gifted) Blundeville Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomevile's Manor, Deopham, Manor of Blomviles (Woodcroft Hall) and Monk Soham (from wife)
* Richard c1160 [son] lord in 1226.
[nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich
Held: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman & Blomevile's Manor, Deopham
John c1200
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotmam, Blomvile's Manor Deopham, Aquired Chesfield 1248-55
William Blumvyle c1274 succeeded by his widow Katherine
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotmam, Blomvile's Manor Deopham
William c1266 (inherited on death of Elder brother Nicholas)
Held: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman, Blomville's Manor, Deopham: inherited from mother - Manors Brome & Blonorton in Norfolk
Richard c 1300
Held: Rector Newton Flotman: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman & Blomevile's Manor, Deopham
- died no heirs, nephew inherited
in 1388 Richard Blumvyle c 1343 held the manor
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham
- died no heirs, nephew inherited
o and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq, c1380
Held: William 1380 Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: Swainsthorpe Hall (settled on William Preston by fine)
Richard Blomevyle esq, c1404
o suceeded by Catherine his wife
Held: Lived Ashby Manor: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: obtained Manors of Ashby & Gunton, Norfolk from wife: Hempnall Manor by Advowson
o Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs
+ succeeded by Ralph, c1470 his brother who died in 1514
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham : Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk (sold on his death to Edward Jernegan): Haveringland Manor: obtained Manor of Gurney from wife: obtained Hopton Manor
Edward, c 1495 his son. died in 1568
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Haveringland Manor (sold by Edward in 1546): Hopton Manor
Thomas, his son, c1522 held a court baron & lete in 1569
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman
(sold on his death by his daughters who were co-heiresses)
The Longs possessed the Manor until 1937 - it appears the Manor is now flats
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From 'Blomfield a Suffolk Family'
the Blomfields were distributed all over the south-east part of Suffolk, these Familes all bore the same arms.. re Tanner MSS The Blomfields of Stonham Parva & Stonham Aspall were recognized as the heads of the Blomfield Family re Heralds Visitations of 1664....In the BDM Stonham Parva for 1542-1872 there are 156 entries for Blomfields..... :o.
In a sermon preached in Little Stonham Church 1681 a mention was made of " Mr Thomas Blomfield from the ancient seat of Foure Elmes in Little Stonham, which gone in the name of ye family with little variation since the time of the Conquise..... interesting ;)
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For anyone thats interested....Swan Rolls, it is also interesting to know that only certain families were entitled to own and mark their swans on the beak with the Familys coat of arms, swans at one time were only kept by royality.. ::)
3 registered swan rolls have been found in regard to the families of Blomevile, Blomevyle,Blondevyll, the rolls are from the 16th century, they are all taken from the Blomvyle/Blomfield coat of arms, bearing 4 circles and a chevron...... 8)
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Lady Grce,
A mind of wonderful information!
I did know about the Swan rolls but NOT what 'ours' was - thanks.
My branch of the Blomfield family is from this Thomas you mentioned as it is the Four Elms branch - Four Elms being the house of the younger son of the Mowness branch which the elder brother inherited.
;-)
Yi
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Hi Yi ;) have we got anything on Robert Blomvyle 1470? was he @ Stonham Parva? hes the eldest [/ son going by our charts, brother of John Blomvyle1487/88 Bury St Edmunds, and brother of your Thomas 1475.. ...hes mentioned a few times in various archives, but who was his wife? ???
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Hi,
This is the information I have on Robert......
Will Arch. of Suffolk Bth XII-28 dated 2-3-1534
Inherited Mowness from Thomas Crowe (via Gilbert BLOMEFIELD) in will dated 1483
Conveyance FB159/L1/21 6 Aug. 1496
Thomas Blomvyle of Little Stonham, chaplain to John Blomvyle of Little Stonham, son of Gilbert Blomvyle, Geoffrey Horsman of Wetheringsett, Richard Rotyll of Mendlesham, Robert Blomvyle of Little Stonham and Thomas Blomvyle of the same place, sons of Gilbert; lands and tenements in Mendlesham
source: Pedigree of BLOMFIELD of Mowness in Stonham Aspal
1st entry in Little Stonham is in the deeds of 1489 spelt Blomvyle
Record of Crowes:- an indenture dated Feb 8th 1577 by which Arthur Blomvyle of Little Stonham Yeoman sells to George Harrison of Debenham yeoman "all that tenement called Crowes etc which Robert Blomvyle his father held of the Manor of Little Stonham and Earl Stonham"
Robert married Margery
EV Blomfields Pedigrees of East End Aspall Stonham
Will of Robert Blomvyle to wife Margery
received tenement at Broadweys with lands called Willemott for life
and they appear to have had 8 children.
The eldest inherited Crowes (Arthur)
The 2nd House Mowness (William)
The 3rd land at Bildeston (John)
Robert died in 1534 and held "Mowness & Crowes" Manors of Stonham Parva & Earl Stonham : inherited lands in Mendlesham
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Thanks for that info Yi , wow ;), well hes the eldest brother, your Thomas is next then our John the baby of the family , thats great, I'll pass that info on re his wife Margery!......ever onwards.... 8)
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Hi,
You can copy it straight from my tree if you want to - after all it IS the same tree! :-)
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Of course A ;) we are 'Family'!
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Too right.
We even have matching coats of arms on our profiles !!!!!
;)
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Our first Blomvyle ancestor in England is Robert de Blomeville who came from Normandy France, he was living in 1190, under the reign of Henry 11 (1154-1189) Richard 1( 1189-1199). He was a nobleman and owned considerble property and land in Norfolk and Suffolk. ;) One of Robert's sons the youngest ,Thomas de Blomville became Bishop of Norwich, 2nd generation down we have the names William the older son of Robert de Blomeville, & his son Richard,3rd generation down we have the forementioned Richard Blomvyle & his son John, all of Newton Flotham....4th generation we have John Blomevyle with his son William, the name William comes around again, in honour of their illustrious ancestor, I find it odd there is none named Robert here? point here is, these are all the same names as in our branch of the Stonham Parva Blomvyles, suggesting one of the younger sons somewhere along the line has taken over their land/property at Stonhan Parva..we just have to figure out which one! but we are getting closer, then its across the channel to Normandy France! 8)
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Hi Grace,
I have a slightly differing beginning (and in no account am I saying this one is accurate!)
Ralph de Blunvil (also known as Robert! curious!) was nephew and heir to Richard de Blunvil & suceeded to land in Colne before 1198.
RB Book of Blomfield Pedigrees
calls Ralph "Robert 1190"
or maybe there was a Ralph and Robert who were brothers?
Ralph's father was William.....
William's father was Richard.....
internet archives
Starrs of Holy Trinity Term, 28 Henry III. 1244
(re Coln)
account of any debt owing to them by the said William de
Blunvill, or his father, Richard, from the creation to the end of the world,
all such debts having been acquitted by the said Abbot and Convent.
Richard de BLUNVILL was born in Blonville in Calvados, Normandy, France. He died after 1086. Had a grant of land in Sterleshey in Colne Engaine, Essex.
He had the following children:
William de BLUNVILL
Richard de BLUNVILL died before 1198.
Walter de BLUNVILL died after 1149.
Richard de blunvil from Blonville, By Trouville, Calvados, Normandy France 1060-1086, had son William 1061 - 1092 Colne Engaine, Essex, England
Richard de Blonville who was the subtenant to Hubert de Monte Caniso, near Blonville, Normandy in 1086. from whom were descended the following, Robert de Blondeville (or Blmeville) living in 1190 in Newton Flotman, Norwich, England, Sir William de Blomvyle, the Constable of Corfe Caste and thomas de Blumville, the Bishop of Norwich in 1226, formerly constable of the Tower of London (1224) and nephew of Hugh de Burgh.
Note: It was normal for a land owner (hubert) to have the same subtenants (Richard) in Normandie as in England.
Wakes Colne on line:-
Part of the Little Colne estate held of Robert Malet by Walter of Caen in 1086 (fn. 76) extended into Wakes Colne where it formed the freehold or submanor of Serdeleshey or LOVENEY HALL. It was held of Colne Engaine manor until 1556 or later. (fn. 77) By the later 12th century William de Cheney or his successors had enfeoffed Richard Blunville, whose great nephew William Blunville disputed the estate with Richard Engaine between 1199 and 1201. (fn. 78) Another William Blunville held c. 1278. (fn. 79)
So I have ....
Richard
who had
Richard, William and Walter
at this point land was divided and inherited by sons
Richard heir inherited Bulcamp in Henham (had heirs could be us???)
William inherited Coln (became Newton Flotman line (could be us)
Walter - unknown
William had Ralph (Robert) (or both?)
he MUST have had other sons but I dont know of any - maybe none survived maybe they arent recorded as did not inherit anything of worth
Ralph had
William, Thomas and Ralph
William of Newton Flotman (heirs)
Thomas the Bishop
Ralph the Archdeacon
and as normal it is all as clear as mud so if anyone wants to add anything maybe different again please feel free!
Remember I have no proof of anything other than what is written in docs on line and suggested by others.
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I suppose now we have the question of a Ralph and a Robert were they the same or brothers or what!
Onwards and ever backwards!
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Hi,
One family tree I have states
Richard subtenant to Hubert had...
William, Thomas and Ralph
The on line pedigree (which is where my tree is based this far back and matches with 2 other trees) goes like....
de Blunvil pedigree
* De Blunvil B.1015-1114. M. 1039-1145. D.1050-1187 ---->
William De Blunvill B.1050-1144 @ Coln, Essex,uk. M.est.1075-1175 dateB. 1091. D.1172. - --->
Ralph De Blunvill B.1086-1174 or 1122. M. 1110-1205.
D. 1121-1248 or1199. ---->
Wiliam De Blunvill B.1121-1204. M. Margery abt.1147-1235 B.1126-1207. D.1157-1285. he died.1157-1290 ---->
Richard De Blomvyle B.1157-1233. M.1183-1265. D.1194-1309. M. Amica De Stutville B.1162-1236. D.1193-1315.
and the Newton Flotman Pedigree goes.....
* William de Blundeville c1121
* Richard c1160 [son] lord in 1226.
nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich
* John c1200
* William Blumvyle c1274 succeeded by his widow Katherine
* William c1266 (inherited on death of Elder brother Nicholas)
* Richard c 1300
* in 1388 Richard Blumvyle c 1343 held the manor
* and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq, c1380
* Richard Blomevyle esq, c1404
suceeded by Catherine his wife
* Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
* succeeded by Ralph, c1470 his brother who died in 1514
* Edward, c 1495 his son. died in 1568
* Thomas, his son, c1522 held a court baron & lete in 1569
(REMEMBERING THIS IS NOT A DIRECT DECENT FROM FATHER TO SON)
So we all have name varients and paretnal varients at this far back, however this is not surprising!
But which is correct?
Food for thought!
;)
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And even sideways. http://thepeerage.com/p10680.htm#i106793
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And. http://thepeerage.com/p12297.htm#i122967
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Hi,
He's a curious one......
He was Ranulf le Meschin styled "le Blundeville" of the le Meschin family, Earls of Chester and as far as I can make out is not connected to our family.
Dont quote me on that ;)
but I dont think its til later that one side of the de Blunvil family took the spelling Blundeville.
Dont quote me in that either ;)
Just covering my butt here as things at this age are so hazy and people get so jittery becuase they are sure what they have is right and everyone else is wrong.
I am not saying what I have is right - what I am saying is I have a possibility and would like to put thoughts together with others who have differing but just or even more as accurate lineages.
cheers young tug - whats your view on good old Ranulf de Blundeville, 4th Earl of Chester.
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Frances Blundevill
Frances Blundevill is the daughter of Simon Blundevill.
Children of Frances Blundevill and Thomas Alston
* William Alston1 b. b 1609, d. 16 Mar 1636/37
* Sir Thomas Alston, 1st Bt.+1 b. c 1609, d. c Jul 1678
Yup - that's most definitely one of ours!
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Died without issue it says, probably keep him on the sidelines. Came across this; Rolls of the eyre of 1244. 30 Henry3. Item, The land which belonged to William Thurstan which the King gave to Henry de Burgh and after to Thomas de Blunville and afterwards to Ralp the Parmenter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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It is said the de Burgh family and the de Blunvil's are intermarried.
Meanwhile another tongue twister to get your brain around....
Davy's MSS
Richard de blomville
of Bulcamp in Henham
time R1 1189-1199 (death dates)
H de Blomville
Hen de Blomville 1E1 = 1272-1273 (died)
H de Blomville 25E1 = 1296-1297
John de Blomville 33E1 = 1304-1305
Henry de Gundesburgh 2E3 of Wetunhale (Wigenhale) 25 JAn 1328-1329
5E3 = 1331 = 1332
R de Blonville 1345-1349
John De Blonville
and
L C SEIR
THE ORIGIN.
In point of age, the family ranks as one of the oldest in East Anglia, and, for the, facts concerning its origin, the Writer is indebted to an excellent account by Sir Reginald Blomfield. R.A., published privately in 1910 by The Chiswick Press, entitled " A Suffolk Family. Being an account of the family of Blomfield in Suffolk.”
It appears the family migrated from the little village of Blomville, on the Normandy coast.
Like a great many early English surnames, this was derived from its original place of settlement. For instance, entries on local (Colchester) Manorial Court Rolls contain records as follows : John atte Fen, Matthew atte Wood, which in time became John Fenn and Matthew Wood. In a similar way, we find the first record of this family is Robert de Blomeville living in 1190. He was, therefore, Robert of Blomvile, in Normandy.
NOTE:
I have now altered my tree from Ralph at this point to Robert as there are more references to him being a Robert than Ralph even though the Pedigree I had said Ralph and it is such on a few other trees!
However going back to Grace's original enquiry I have no idea why the names do not follow down? Although all 3 names appear the next generation down with a Richard, Robert and William.
The name Ralph also appears a generation down.
Maybe children died or they named the first children after other family members hoping to name a younger son the fathers name - which does happen a lot in this tree - it is not always the eldest son who carries the fathers name - if there are no further sons the name skips a generation.
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and here we have 2 nicely conflicting bits of information.....
from rev Francis Blomefield
Manor of Blundeville or Newton Hall at Newton Flotman in Norfolk
William de Blundeville, Blomvyle or Blunnel, who had it oft the gift of henry de Rye, he left it to Richard his son who was Lord in 1226, being nephew to thomas de Blunvil, Bishop of Norfolk, in 1388 Richard Blumville held it and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq and he was suceeded by catherine his wife and she by richard thier son who died in 1503.
Newton Hall. The manor of Blundevilles.
* William de Blundeville c1121
* Richard c1160 [son] lord in 1226.
[nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich]
and from Dictionary of National Biography volume 05.djvu/280
Thomas de Blundeville blundville (d 1236)..... he was the son of Robert de Blunville of Newton Flotman and the younger brother of William de Blunville constable of Corfe Castle... nephew of Hubert de Burgh
The problem here is William (who was given Newton Flotman) brother is Thomas so Thomas' father couldnt have owned Newton Flotman!
BUT we also have Robert who is said to have been Thomas' father and owned Newton Flotman.
Open to the many suggestions bound to arise from this!
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'Our first Blomvyle ancestor in England is Robert de Blomeville who came from Normandy France, he was living in 1190, under the reign of Henry 11 (1154-1189) Richard 1( 1189-1199). He was a nobleman and owned considerble property and land in Norfolk and Suffolk.'
This was taken from 'Revision of Blomfield Pedigree 1190 to 1981 by Charles W J Blomfield -addendum 1981-2002'. ;)
For Blomfields take a look on Google street maps at BLOMVYLE HALL- very interesting, one can see the red brick old buildings in the front by road used for various businesses, to the right is an imposing 2 storied red brick house behind a hedge.....however to the left down a long drive is another big old house with many old chimney stacks, I wonder if this is what remains of the original Blomvyle HALL? it looks very interesting but hard to see behind the trees....anyone in that area know anything about this??
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Is anyone else a member of this site, preferably a club privelege member ::) ;D http://collections.geneanet.org/ouvrages/index.php?action=search&book_type=livre&rech=blomfield&start=28&fuzzy=1
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Just having a looksee now youngtug, hmmm that looks interesting I may have to join..thanks ;)
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Bit strange to get around, probably because it is of French origin.
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Will go look at your link in a bit youngtug.
Meanwhile I did abit of internet hunting last night and have come up with several origin names of the family - but as to which is correct I dont know.
We Have......
Davys MSS
Richard de Blomville of Bulcamp in Henham d c 1190
father of Henry
Blomville Pedigree A Suffolk Family by Reginald Blomfield
Richard sub tenent of Hubert de Monte Caniso
father of William (Corfe), Thomas (Bishop) & Ralph
Rev Francis Blomfield
William (Cofe) was gifted Newton Flotman by Henry de Rye
who was father of Richard who held Newton Flotman 1226
and brother of Thomas (Bishop)
Charles W J Blomfield
'Our first Blomvyle ancestor in England is Robert de Blomeville who came from Normandy France, he was living in 1190,
Dictionary of National Biography volume 05.djvu/280
Thomas de Blundeville blundville (d 1236)..... he was the son of Robert de Blunville of Newton Flotman and the younger brother of William de Blunville constable of Corfe Castle... nephew of Hubert de Burgh
Newton Hall. The manor of Blundevilles.
* William de Blundeville c1121
* Richard c1160 [son] lord in 1226.
[nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich]
de Blunvil pedigree
* De Blunvil B.1015-1114. M. 1039-1145. D.1050-1187 ---->
William De Blunvill B.1050-1144 @ Coln, Essex,uk. M.est.1075-1175 dateB. 1091. D.1172. - --->
Ralph De Blunvill B.1086-1174 or 1122. M. 1110-1205.
D. 1121-1248 or1199. ---->
Wiliam De Blunvill (corfe) B.1121-1204. M. Margery abt.1147-1235 B.1126-1207. D.1157-1285. he died.1157-1290 ---->
Richard De Blomvyle B.1157-1233. M.1183-1265. D.1194-1309. M. Amica De Stutville B.1162-1236. D.1193-1315.
so really anyones guess is anyone BUT we do have 2 references to BEFORE 1190 in the William c1121.
I really am open to suggestions and have no answers.
many of the Blomfield trees on line follow the de Blunvil pedigree with notes and citations to back up the information so its come from documentation not guess work but who really knows!
these go...
Richard sub tenent of Hubert de Monte Caniso
father of William, Richard and Walter
William father of Ralph
Ralph father of
William (Corfe), Thomas (Bishop) and Ralph
ce la vie!
at a loss now!
(but still smiling!)
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I have copies of the following..
Pedigree of Gilbert Blomvyle and Elizabeth English
Pedigree of Richard Blomville of Bulcamp from British Museum
EV Blomfield's Book
Blomfield Pages from Davy's MSS
Barrington/Blomfield family tree
The Will of Gilbert Blomvyle 1416
Parish records of Stoke Ash, Thornham Magna, Wickahm Skieth
Excel spreadsheet of Blomfield Parish records Suffolk
The Blomfields of Dedham and Colchester by L C Sier
Various Pedigree charts from RV and EV Blomfields' books of Blomfield Pedigree's
Can copy to people.
Yi
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There is also references to Blomfield properties in The Manors of Suffolk by Coppinger - the book was readable on line but my link to it isnt working.
This book was adivsed to me by a Rootschat member Sunnylew a while back - maybe he has up to date link?
This is also from Sunnylew
I was organising what I'd downloaded from worldvitalrecords, and had a look at your Gilbert of 1523.
The year rang a bell, and I realised there was a subsidy taken in Suffolk in that year. The list of those who paid is in this book:
http://norlink.norfolk.gov.uk/02_Catalogue/02_005_TitleInformation.aspx?searchTerm=336.22&searchTerm2=&searchTerm3=&searchTerm4=&searchType=4&Page=1&media=&branch=&authority=&language=&junior=&rcn=GRN0345010&fr=tl
You should be able to find it in a bigger library (there was another in 1568 as well).
I'm guessing that is the source of Gilbert in the pedigree. You may also, with a bit of hunting, find William English. At a guess, if Elizabeth is listed as his heir, then he probably had something worth mentioning to pass on to her, and so he should be listed relatively prominently in whichever parish he came from.
but I so not have access to worldvitalrecords
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Something that I just read on line in a book re all the old English/Norman names was that 'Blunderville' was actually Blondeville, all to do with phonetics evidently ;) so that may make it easier when checking all these ancestors 8) so de Blunville is actually de Blomvyle..hmmmmmmm..'Blun' &' Blom', easy enough to get wrong in dem olden days I guess, just makes it harder for us to unravel ::)
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There are so many spelling varients it's all making for a lot of good fun!
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......or headaches Yi........ ;)
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Hi,
Yes it can cause headaches but it is very interesting to note that most name vaients occur when a younger branch moves away from the main one to live in a different location - or going back very early is anglatised from native French to Anglo English 'Ville' 'Field and also the 'de' is dropped but in the Stonham branch is resuected as Stephen Blomville DE MOWNESS (Stephen Blomville of Mowness Hall) - he does seem to be a 'somebody' because it is him who the Coat of Arms is recorded with and it being the same Coat of Arms as the Newton Flotman line - makes you wonder - he obviously wanted some sort of affiliation with the main line and status of power in his own right as well - I wonder if there was an interconnecting marriage between these 2 branches at this time?
Further food for thought!
Meanwhile I am thinking of looking at asking for help from a professional geneologist to see if we can further back our Stonham branch or link it to the main one.
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Hi Guys
I have just started this thread about my Bloomfield's in Ipswich/Playford and would be grateful of any help although I can't see any connection with what is being discussed here but you never know.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=493595
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Hello, I have also started on the Bloomfield family. Although I have done my mother's side of the family first and felt in need of a change. I thought the Bloomfields would be quite easy...ha ha! I noticed that Yi Win mentioned her tree and I had a look (I hope you don't mind) and on it is my grandfather, he is a son of John James Bloomfield and Susannah Mary Hale. I am amazed at all the work you have done. I got bogged down for a while with the Bloomfields in Dovercourt as Charles (1818 ) seemed to appear and disappear,also wasn't sure who he married.
I am making progress and reading your blogs is really interesting and has helped a lot . I have a long way to go!
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GAYLA!!!
Oh my GOD
get in touch!
Have been trying to find you guys!
PM me - will PM my email to you!!
I'm Len's grandaughter - Susanna's youngest son!
Amanda
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Hi Amanda, I am Harry's granddaughter, how amazing! I am new to this website and do not know how to get in touch with you personally... have gone to your profile but there is no link to send anything, perhaps I am being thick! If you can tell me where I can get in touch will send you my e-mail.
Gail
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Hi,
click on my name.
go to bottom of box
it will say something like send pm
send me contact email
OR got to your messages at the top line above here and it should say 1 new message click and it will give you my email.
If i put it on here the moderator will delete it for security reasons so it has to be via PM
Amanda
PS - am about all today on computer but may not be near it for the next hour to pick up messages.
Harry as in Harold? I was reminising with my Uncle Harry not long ago about him! (as in Harry Ryall)
back in a bit
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PS - dont worry about the Dovercourt lot - took 5 Bloomfield cousins one whole winter to sort them out in a huge joint effort, buying parish records, visiting Records office and looking through microfilches, joining ancestry to access census records.
basically they are nearly all illigitimate kids living with either the grandfather or aunt and passed off in census records as the kids of aunt of grandfather.
We also had to buy ALL of thier birth certificates to get it sorted in the end - but we got there.
In touch with 2 cousins from a Dovercourt branch and 2 from John James' sister's decendents + Maisie's daughter and grandaughter.
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Amanda, remember Gayla has to send three messages to the board before she can send a PM ::)
If she sends one more board message you are rocking and rolling ;D
Pat ...
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good point, and thanks - but she did manage to pick up my message to her with the email and has contacted me - 2nd cousins re-united! ;D ;D ;D
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Hi,
Ive just discovered this thread. Has anyone lost:
Arthur Gedney Bloomfield, born c. 1864, son of Gedney Bloomfield ?
if so, get in touch, as I have information about him
Heathers
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YI Win have you heard of this branch of Blomvyle/Blomvile? where do they fit in I wonder?
'According to records kept at Notre-Dame de Dives, in Dives sur Mer, Normandy, the de Blonville family was numbered among Duke William's 345 Companions in Arms who sailed in 1066 for the Battle of Hastings. Later, in 1068, Charles de Blonville followed the post-conquest resettlement opportunities (free land and manors) and took up substantial landholdings (until the late 20th century it was called Clockhouse Farm) near Saxmundham in Suffolk, East Anglia, where they remained until the mid 1800's. Selling the landholdings, they moved into the brewing industry first in Manchester and later in Australia. The family is well represented in the Church of St John in Saxmundham and on monuments in the attached graveyard.
It was recently claimed by Peter Blomfield, family genealogist and businessman based in Sydney, that evidence has been discovered suggesting that Duke William of Normandy, the illegitimate heir to the Normandy title, was - through his mother, Herleve de Falaise, the daughter of a wealthy Breton tanner - actually a member of the de Blonville family. Earl holds the title of Viscount de Blonville of Saxmundham.
http://www.earldeblonville.com/biography.html
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I am also trying to find out where/if this Blomvyle Hall fits into the Family, its is an estate with several cottages and a farm I think, it must have belonged to a BLOMVYLE FAMILY sometime in the past re the name..... if anyone has any info re garding it, I am sure we would all be interested, I can't find anything on-line re previous owners-
for sale 3 Blomvyle Hall Cottages, Easton Lane
Blomvyle Hall Easton Road,Hacheston, Woodbridge, Suffolk
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I think I know the family who owned it in the 1960s/70s, but they were not Blomfields I am afraid. Presumably they bought it on the open market and had nothing to do with its history.
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Have I given you the details for the Local History Recorder in Hacheston in the past?
Remember visiting Dives-sur-mer en vacances many years ago, We chose to have a visit there because of links to 1066 and all that!
Pat ...
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From White's 1844
'Bloomville Hall is a neat white-brick mansion belonging to the Duke of Hamilton but occupied by T Hanbury Esq.'
Duke of Hamilton's estate was at nearby Easton.
Now to find my 'Suffolk Houses' book :D
Pat ...
PS - Well, when I went to find the book, husband asked what I was looking for and mentioned that he knew the people that lived at Bloomville Hall when he was young (and living in Framlingham), and in the book are several references to Blomvyle,s, the Hall, and the Clock House (which I had remembered seeing previously). This will take a while to read it all and see if it is of any help to you.
Mmmmmm! Greensleeves knew the folk at the Hall back then too ;)
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Thank you very much, I had a good look online and couldn't find a single thing, so thanks very much....:>)
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Also like Yi Win we are looking for any data on one William English c 1425, as his daughter Elizabeth, wife of Gilbert Blomvyle, is down as heiress, so one would imagine he had some sort of standing/property, in the parish he lived in....all I have is Suffolk? ???
A link for anyone who wishes to read up on Manor Houses of Suffolk by
Walter Arthur Copinger
http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7045584M/The_Manors_of_Suffolk
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I have put a webpage up on two of our Elizabethan ancestors, =WILLIAM BLOMEFIELD and MYLES BLOMEFYLDE....I was quite excited to find these two adventuresome Tudor gents were in our Blomfield Family tree, what a couple of amazing guys! If anyone has any more info re these two I would be extremely grateful......I think their Blomfield tenacity has come through to the present generation!
Still putting links up...
http://historyandmystery.homestead.com/MylesBlomefylde.html
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For anyone who is following this particular Blomfield Family Tree, I have found a marriage on Latter Day Saints genealogy site for a Myles Blomfield:
Mrs Myles Blomfield 1527 Bury St Edmunds
married a Myles Blomfield in 1550 Bury St Edmunds..
I don't know how correct this is or how to check it but would say the odds are in favour its our Myles Blomfield born 1525, Bury St Edmunds,Suffolk
Now the task ahead is to find the link between MylesBlomfield/Blomefylde and his kinsman? William Blomfield born Bury St Edmunds, was a monk at the rich Bury Abbey until he was charged with heresy, both these fellows had a love of Alchemy and books..and were quite robust characters! both must have come from well heeled families...see webpage...William I would presume to have come from a religious Catholic family to end up in the richest Abbey in England of that time..
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I've only just noticed this thread - sorry.
I have a document tree starting with Robert de Blomevile (circa 1190) of Newton Flotman, Norfolk which leads on to include five generations of Williams Blomefield of Little Stonham (16th/17th century). It's thin on dates but the line of descent is clear enough.
Any use?
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Oh yes please Coops, we have a lot but there is always something missing, so what you have may be quite helpful, thank you very much L Grace:>)
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Hi guys,
I thought it was all a bit quiet - and for some reason I've not been getting my email alerts since I changed my email address - anyone know how I 'turn' them back 'on'?
How odd
Must go read now and catch up with all the stuff going on!
Yi! :-)
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Hi,
Re....
Hi,
Ive just discovered this thread. Has anyone lost:
Arthur Gedney Bloomfield, born c. 1864, son of Gedney Bloomfield ?
if so, get in touch, as I have information about him
Heathers
He's not on my tree - any location ideas?
of even a grandfather?
Yi :)
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Hi guys,
I thought it was all a bit quiet - and for some reason I've not been getting my email alerts since I changed my email address - anyone know how I 'turn' them back 'on'?
How odd
Must go read now and catch up with all the stuff going on!
Yi! :-)
Hi Yi Win
Go to PROFILE at top of the board. Then select;
NOTIFICATIONS and EMAIL from the MODIFY PROFILE menu. Then make sure that the notification boxes are ticked.
Rick :)
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Cheers Ric!
I only realised when I got your email saying you'd moved a post and then thought hmmm...... I wonder? It's been a bit too quiet in here!!
Ta
Yi
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How odd - its already ticked and you are using my new email and I got one from you just now re 'post moved' so its all very strange!
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Hi,
and onto .....
'According to records kept at Notre-Dame de Dives, in Dives sur Mer, Normandy, the de Blonville family was numbered among Duke William's 345 Companions in Arms who sailed in 1066 for the Battle of Hastings. Later, in 1068, Charles de Blonville followed the post-conquest resettlement opportunities (free land and manors) and took up substantial landholdings (until the late 20th century it was called Clockhouse Farm) near Saxmundham in Suffolk, East Anglia, where they remained until the mid 1800's. Selling the landholdings, they moved into the brewing industry first in Manchester and later in Australia. The family is well represented in the Church of St John in Saxmundham and on monuments in the attached graveyard.
It was recently claimed by Peter Blomfield, family genealogist and businessman based in Sydney, that evidence has been discovered suggesting that Duke William of Normandy, the illegitimate heir to the Normandy title, was - through his mother, Herleve de Falaise, the daughter of a wealthy Breton tanner - actually a member of the de Blonville family. Earl holds the title of Viscount de Blonville of Saxmundham.
I have heard of this....
According to records kept at Notre-Dame de Dives, in Dives sur Mer, Normandy, the de Blonville family was numbered among Duke William's 345 Companions in Arms who sailed in 1066 for the Battle of Hastings.
however the name is NOT logged in the engraved panel at the church where all Williams knights were listed before they left to invade England.
Later, in 1068, Charles de Blonville followed the post-conquest resettlement opportunities (free land and manors) and took up substantial landholdings
I dont know about a 'Charles' but there is a Richard.
cont.....
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cont/.....
This is the varying info I have on Richard....
Coat of Arms:-
Blomevile or Blundevile- Said to bear : Quarterly per fess
indented or and az , a bend gu
Blomeville. See Blumville,
Blondeviile, of Newton Flotman, Quarterly per fess indented
or and az,, a bendlet gu.
Blumville, Bishop Thomas de, died 1236. Said to bear: Quarterly,
per fess indented or and az., a bend arg. [?]. Same coat as Blondeviile.
Blundeville, Robert de. Quarterly, per fess indented or and az.,
over all a bendlet gu.
NOTE:- he is NOT recorded on the abbey rolls as coming over with William The C. - however Robert Count de Montaigne (1/2 brother to William C) DID come over as a close advisor to William and a decendent of his married Ralph de Blunvil - this Richard's grandson.
Richard de BLUNVILL was born in Blonville in Calvados, Normandy, France. He died after 1086. Had a grant of land in Sterleshey in Colne Engaine, Essex.
He had the following children:
William de BLUNVILL
Richard de BLUNVILL died before 1198.
Walter de BLUNVILL died after 1149.
Richard de blunvil from Blonville, By Trouville, Calvados, Normandy France 1060-1086, had son William 1061 - 1092 Colne Engaine, Essex, England
Richard de Blonville who was the subtenant to Hubert de Monte Caniso, near Blonville, Normandy in 1086. from whom were descended the following, Robert de Blondeville (or Blmeville) living in 1190 in Newton Flotman, Norwich, England, Sir William de Blomvyle, the Constable of Corfe Caste and thomas de Blumville, the Bishop of Norwich in 1226, formerly constable of the Tower of London (1224) and nephew of Hugh de Burgh.
Note: It was normal for a land owner (hubert) to have the same subtenants (Richard) in Normandie as in England.
Wakes Colne on line:-
Part of the Little Colne estate held of Robert Malet by Walter of Caen in 1086 (fn. 76) extended into Wakes Colne where it formed the freehold or submanor of Serdeleshey or LOVENEY HALL. It was held of Colne Engaine manor until 1556 or later. (fn. 77) By the later 12th century William de Cheney or his successors had enfeoffed Richard Blunville, whose great nephew William Blunville disputed the estate with Richard Engaine between 1199 and 1201. (fn. 78) Another William Blunville held c. 1278. (fn. 79) By c. 1380 the estate was called Loveney Hall, pre- sumably from an owner; c. 1440 it belonged to a Culpepper.
De Blunvil name:-
This interesting name is of Norman French origin, introduced into England after the Conquest of 1066; it is a good example of the subsequent Anglicizing of foreign placenames to resemble native placename elements. Looking wholly English but being wholly French, the name is locational and derives from the village of Blonville-sur-Mer in Calvados, Normandy. The first element is an Old Norse personal name, the second is the Old French "ville", meaning settlement. The various modern spellings include Blomefield, Blomfield and Blumfield. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William de Blunwill, which was dated 1207, the Hundred Rolls of Suffolk, during the reign of King John, known as "Lackland", 1199 - 1216
de blunvill
The surname of BLOOMFIELD was a locational name 'of de Blundeville' a place near Normandy, France. The name was brought to England in the wake of the Norman Conquest of 1066, and is familiar to Norfolk and Suffolk. It is known as the Domesday Book. Early records of the name mention William de Blundeville, 1273 County Norfolk
L C SEIR
THE ORIGIN.
In point of age, the family ranks as one of the oldest in East Anglia, and, for the, facts concerning its origin, the Writer is indebted to an excellent account by Sir Reginald Blomfield. R.A., published privately in 1910 by The Chiswick Press, entitled " A Suffolk Family. Being an account of the family of Blomfield in Suffolk.”
It appears the family migrated from the little village of Blomville, on the Normandy coast.
Like a great many early English surnames, this was derived from its original place of settlement. For instance, entries on local (Colchester) Manorial Court Rolls contain records as follows : John atte Fen, Matthew atte Wood, which in time became John Fenn and Matthew Wood. In a similar way, we find the first record of this family is Robert de Blomeville living in 1190. He was, therefore, Robert of Blomvile, in Normandy.
Tanner Manuscripts contain six pedigrees of the family, all bearing the same Arms, which were: Quarterly, per fess, indented Agrent and Azure, a Bend, Gules.
Crest: A lozenge, gules, between two wings erect, sometimes without the lozenge.
cont....
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cont/......
[/color]
and took up substantial landholdings (until the late 20th century it was called Clockhouse Farm) near Saxmundham in Suffolk, East Anglia, where they remained until the mid 1800's.
The 1st branch of our family (Lady Grace and mine) settled in Stonham at a house called Mowness, they also owned a property called "Crowes" a younger son then branched into the house called Four Elms (my branch)
It is assumed the house 'Crowes' was called such as it was inherited into the Blomvyle family from a Thomas Crowe although the link between the 2 families is unknown to me. Crowes became known as Clockhouse
info I have....
Clockhouse:-
Clockhouse is the name "Crowes"
an account of Rev E Farrer
it appears therefrom that in 1483 on thomas Crowe of Stonham Jernigan made a Will in which he stated " I Will that my dwelling place and all my land longinly thereto be sold to the best profit to fulfyll wyth my charges (this si taken as referring to the Crowes property) he bequethes to his wife Emma chambers during her life and the mill it is assumed to be referring to part of the Mowness proeprty which he leaves to Gilbert Blomvyle
The Rev E Farrer recorded that in 1483 one Thomas Crowe had bequeathed his tenement called Mowneys to Gilbert Blomefiled and after to Robert Blomefield who is the Robert Blomvyle of the Mowness Pedigree who in his Will dated 2nd march 1534 bequesthed Mowness to his son William 1510-1590. thereafter thje property was owned by the family for 4 generations up to Henry who was buried at Stonham in 1717.
The Crowe family relationship to the Blomvyle family currently unknown.
The house passed out of the Blomvyle family via a female inheritance but a little further down the line a male Blomfield cousin married the female decendent and the house was (I think) after 200 yrs back in the name Blomfield ownership.
they moved into the brewing industry first in Manchester and later in Australia.
this I have no idea about.
It was recently claimed by Peter Blomfield, family genealogist and businessman based in Sydney, that evidence has been discovered suggesting that Duke William of Normandy, the illegitimate heir to the Normandy title, was - through his mother, Herleve de Falaise, the daughter of a wealthy Breton tanner - actually a member of the de Blonville family. Earl holds the title of Viscount de Blonville of Saxmundham
Again I have no knowledge of this but I find this very very interesting!!!
There appears to have been very close ties to the throne by the Blomvyle family and also they seem to have married very well and been in positions of high places BUT not much seems to be on record for them at that time. So the above doesnt really come as a great surprise but oh boy would I love a look at Peters info!!!!
(remember later down the line it is 'thought' that a decendent of Robert, 1/2 brother to William C, married a de Blunvil (the de Burgh family) but as far as I can see there is no proof but I do not have any docs to say either way.)
and if you've read this far you need a medal!
Yi ;D ;D ;D
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and the last note...
sorry
re Blomvyle Hall Easton Road, Hacheston,
have no idea - none of my branches seem to be there so I cant say who owned it but I would expect its a branch of the same family somewhere along the line.
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Hi,
Here's your full quoted page....
from
http://www.earldeblonville.com/biography.html
Earl de Blonville FRGS
Explorer, author and one of today's most inspiring thinkers on leadership.
Professor the Hon Barry Jones AO describes Earl as 'a great, but unsung, Australian hero, courageous, strong, confident, and with outstanding leadership qualifications'.
(biography of early life text removed to save space)
History of the family name: de Blonville
The original family name of 'de Blonville' originates from the rural farming centre of Blonville, situated some three kilometres inland from the Normandy coast near Caen in Normandy, in the 10th century. The family de Blonville were originally Norse settlers or Vikings who as a group acquired the land west of the Seine - now known as Normandy - by the 911 treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte - between the Viking leader Rollo (Hrolf, later Robert) and the Charles III (The Simple) of France. The treaty conditions traded the land of Normandy – the land of the Norsemen – for an agreement to not sack the French capital of Paris.
Over the centuries, the name de Blonville accumulated many Anglicised variant spellings that included de Blomeville, deBlomevyle, BlondeVille, Blomvyle, Le Blomvile, Blomfield, Bloomfield and Blomfylde. These variants reflect the peculiarities of official record-keeping by church wardens, not all of whom were fully literate, or who were obliged to transcribe names as they sounded. At play was a variety of local French and English dialects and the transition of Saxon England's unofficial language into formalised Norman French under William the Conqueror's sweeping administrative reforms. No standard English language appeared through the country until after the publication by William Caxton of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in 1476.
According to records kept at Notre-Dame de Dives, in Dives sur Mer, Normandy, the de Blonville family was numbered among Duke William's 345 Companions in Arms who sailed in 1066 for the Battle of Hastings. Later, in 1068, Charles de Blonville followed the post-conquest resettlement opportunities (free land and manors) and took up substantial landholdings (until the late 20th century it was called Clockhouse Farm) near Saxmundham in Suffolk, East Anglia, where they remained until the mid 1800's. Selling the landholdings, they moved into the brewing industry first in Manchester and later in Australia. The family is well represented in the Church of St John in Saxmundham and on monuments in the attached graveyard.
It was recently claimed by Peter Blomfield, family genealogist and businessman based in Sydney, that evidence has been discovered suggesting that Duke William of Normandy, the illegitimate heir to the Normandy title, was - through his mother, Herleve de Falaise, the daughter of a wealthy Breton tanner - actually a member of the de Blonville family. Earl holds the title of Viscount de Blonville of Saxmundham.
Yi :D
Note: Saxmundham and Clockhouse Farm and not near each other - unless there is another Clokchouse of course ;)
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Saxmundham to Clockhouse, Stonham Parva is 21.5 miles.
Who knows!
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here is a copy of the list of companions with notes (may not all fit on one post)
1066 LIST OF KNIGHTS
List Of Those Accompanying William The Conqueror On His Invasion Of England in 1066
Please see NOTES at bottom of page for comments from researchers
This list is taken from the plaque in the church at Dives-sur- Mer, Normandy, France, where William the Conqueror and his knights said mass before setting sail to invade England in 1066. It lists all the knights who took part in the invasion.
The concept of surnames as we know them was not very well-developed. An individual either took the name of the village where they lived (this would generally be the case for those those starting with a "de"), or else the surname was a sort of nickname, depicting certain characteristics e.g. Alain le Roux (Alain of the red hair), Raoul Vis-de-Loup (Raoul wolf-face) etc. In other cases, it could be the father's name, in the format "fils de...." (son of..... ). This in later years became "Fitz....", as in such names as "Fitzjohn" etc.
The spellings were often different then. For example Bunker comes from French Bon-Coeur ("Good-Heart). This would have been written "Cor-bon" in Norman French. Also, the bishop of Bayeux, who is normally known by the name of "Odo", is listed under the French spelling of "Eude".
Please note that the original was not in alphabetical order.
Some of the men's names are linked - either to pages I have on The Olive Tree Genealogy, or other sites.
cont...
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Albelin Geoffroi
Alevi
Alis Guillaume
Ansgot
Arundel Robert
Azor
Baignard Raoul
Bainard Geoffroi
Basset Guillaume
Basset Raoul
Basset Richard
Bavent
Belet Guillaume
Bertran Guillaume
Bigot Robert
Blouet Raoul
Blouet Robert
Boissel Robert
Bonvalet Guillaume
Botin Raoul
Bourdet Hugue
Bourdet Robert
Carbonnel
Cardon Guillaume
Corbet Robert
Corbet Roger
Crespin Wile
Croc Renaud
Cruel Robert
Cul de Louf Eude
d'Addetot Oure
d'Adreci Normand
d'Alencon Bernard (Bernard d'Alengon)
d'Andeli Richer
d'Andre Arnould (Arnould d'Andri)
d'Angleville Guillaume
d'Ansleville Honfroi
d'Argentan David
D'Argouges
d'Argues Guillaume
d'Armentieres Robert (Robert d'Armentihres)
d'Arques Osberne
d'Aubernon Robert
d'Auberville Robert
d'Auberville Robert
d'Auberville Seri
d'Aubigni Niel (Niel d'Aubigni)
d'Audrieu Guillaume
d'Aufai Goubert
d'Aumale Robert
d'Aunon Raoul
D'Auvay
D'Auvrecher d'Angerville
d'Avranches Hugue
d'Avre Rahier
d'Ecouis Guillaume
d'Engagne Richard
d'Escalles Hardouin
d'Espagne Auvrai
d'Espagne Herve (Hervi d'Espagne)
d'Eu Comte Robert
d'Eu Guillaume
d'Eu Osberne
d'Evreux Comte Guillaume
d'Evreux Roger
d'Helion Herve (Hervi d'Hilion)
d'Hericy
d'Houdetot
d'Incourt Gautier
d'Ivri Achard
d'Ivri Hugue
d'Ivri Roger
d'Olgeanc Guillaume fils
d'Orbec Roger
d'Orglande
d'Ornontville Gautier
d'Ouilli Raoul
d'Ouilli Robert
d'Unepac Raoul fils
Daniel
Danneville
de Bailleul
de Bailleul Renaud
de Balon Guineboud
de balon Hamelin
de Bans Raoul
de Bapaumes Raoul
de Barbes Robert
de Beauchamp Hugue
de Beaufou Guillaume
de Beaufou Raoul
de Beaumais Richard
de Beaumont Henri
de Beaumont Robert
de Beaumont Robert
de Beauvais Goubert
de Bercheres Oure
de Bernai Raoul
de Bernieres Hugue (Hugue de Bernihres)
de Berville Niel (Niel de Berville)
de Bienfaite Richard
de Biville Guillaume
de Biville Honfroi
de Blangi Guimond
de Blosbeville Gilbert
de Bohon Honfroi
de Bolbec Hugue
de Bondeville Richard
de Bosc Guillaume
de Bosc-Normand Roger
de Bosc-Roard Roger
de Boulogne Comte Eustache
de Bourneville Guillaume
de Brai Guillaume
de Brebeuf Hugue
de Breteuil Roger
de Bretteville Gilbert
de Brimou Renier
de Briouse Guillaume
de Briqueville
de Brix Robert
de Buci Robert
de Budi Gilbert
de Bulli Roger
de Burci Serlon
de Buron Erneis
de Bursigni Guillaume
de Caen Gautier
de Caen Maurin
de Cailli Guillaume
de Cairon Guillaume
de Cambrai Geoffroi
de Canaigres Guillaume
de Canouville
de Carnet Guillaume
de Carteret Honfroi
de Carteret Mauger
de Carteret Roger
de Castillon Guillaume
de Ceauce Guillaume
de Champagne Comte Eude
de Chandos Robert
de Chandos Roger
de Chartres Raoul
de Cherbourg Anquetil
de Cioches Gonfroi
de Cioches Sigan
de Claville Gautier
De Clinchamps
de Colleville Gilbert
de Colleville Guillaume
de Colombelles Renouf
de Colombieres Beaudouin (Beaudouin de Colombihres)
de Colombieres Raoul (Raoul de Colombihres)
de Conteville Raoul
de Corbon Hugue
de Cormeilles Ansfroi
de Corneilles Goscelin
de Couci Aubri
de Courcelles Roger
de Courci Richard
de Courcon Robert (Robert de Courgon)
De Courcy
de Courseume Raoul
de Craon Gui
de Cugey
de Culai Honfroi
de Dive Beugelin
de Dol Hugue
de Douai Gautier
de Douai Goscelin
de Dreux Ansure
de Dreux Herman
de Durville Guillaume
de Falaise Guillaume
de Fecamp Guillaume (Guillaume de Ficamp)
de Ferrieres Henri (Henri de Ferrihres)
de Fontemai Etienne
de Fougeres Guillaume (Guillaume de Foughres)
de Fougeres Raoul (Raoul de Foughres)
de Fourneaux Eude
de Framan Raoul
de Fribois
de Gael Raoul
de Gand Gilbert
de Gerould Robert fils
de Gibard Gilbert
de Glanville Robert
de Gournai Hugue
de Gournai Niel (Niel de Gournai)
de Grai Anquetil
de Grancourt Gautier
de Grentemesnil Hugue
de Grenteville Turold
de Gueron Turstin
de Guideville Hugue
de Harcourt Robert
de Hauville Raoul
de Hodenc Hugue
de Hotot Hugue
de l'Aigle Engenouf
de l'Appeville Gautier
de l'Aune Guillaume
de l'Estourmi Raoul
de l'ile Honfroi
de la Berviere Drew (Drew de la Bervihre)
de la Bruiere Raoul (Raoul de la Bruihre)
de la Foret Guillaume
de la Guierche Geoffroi
de la Mare Guillaume
de la Mare Hugue
de la Pommeraie Raoul
de la Riviere Goscelin (Goscelin de la Rivihre)
de Laci Gautier
de Laci Hugue
de Laci Ilbert
de Laci Roger
de Lanquetot Raoul
de Letre Guillaume
de Libourg Fouque
de Linesi Raoul
de Lisieux Roger
de Loges Bigot
de Lorz Robert
de Loucelles Guillaume
de Maci Hugue
de Malleville Guillaume
de Mandeville Geoffroi
de Manneville Hugue
de Marci Raoul
de Mathan
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de Meri Richard
de Meulan Comte Robert
de Meules Beaudouin
de Meules Roger
de Mobec Hugue
de Moion Guillaume
de Monceaux Guillaume
de Mont-Canisi Hubert
de Montaigu Drew
de Montaigu Ansger
de Montbrai Geoffroi
de Montbrai Robert
de Montfiquet
de Montfort Hugue
de Montfort Robert
de Montgommeri Hugue
de Montgommeri Roger
de Moron Raoul
de Mortagne Mathieu
de Mortain Comte Robert
de Mortemer Raoul
de Moyaux Roger
de Mucedent Gautier
de Munneville Niel (Niel de Munneville)
de Mussegros Roger
de Nesdin Arnould
de Neufmarche Bernard
de Neuville Richard
de Noyers Guillaume
de Ouistreham Roger
de Papelion Turold
de Paris Foucher
de Parthenai Guillaume
de Paumera Guillaume
de Peis Guernon
de Perci Arnould
de Perci Guillaume
de Picvini Anscoul
de Pierrepont Geoffroi
de Pierrepont Renaud
de Pierrepont Robert
de Piquiri Guillaume
de Pistres Roger
de Poillei Guillaume
de Pont de l'Arche Guillaume
de Pont Hubert
de Pontchardon Robert
de Port Hugue
de Raimbeaucourt Gui
de Rainbeaucourt Engerrand
de Rainecourt Gui
de Rames Roger
de Rennes Hugue
de Reviers Guillaume
de Reviers Richard
de Rhuddlan Robert
de Riebou Gautier
de Romenel Robert
de Ros Ansgot
de Ros Anquetil
de Ros Geoffroi
de Ros Serlon
de Rosai Vauquelin
de Rou Turstin fils
de Runeville Geoffroi
de Sacquerville Richard
de Saint-Clair Richard
de Saint-Germain
de Saint-Germain Roger
de Saint-Helene Renaud (Renaud de Saint-Hilhne)
de Saint-Helene Turstin (Turstin de Saint-Hilhne)
de Saint-Leger Robert
de Saint-Ouen Bernard
de Saint-Quentin Hugue
de Saint-Sanson Raoul
de Saint-Valeri Gautier (Gautier de Saint-Valiri)
de Saint-Waleri Renouf
de Sainte-d'Aignaux
de Sauvigni Raoul
de Senarpont Ansger
de Senlis Simon
de Sept-Meules Guillaume
de Somneri Roger
de Sourdeval Richard
de Tanie Auvrai
de Tessel Guimond
de Thaon Robert
de Tilly
de Tocni [Toeni?] Guillaume
de Toeni Berenger
de Toeni Ilbert
de Toeni Jumel
de Toeni Raoul
de Toeni Robert
de Torteval Renaud
de Touchet
de Tourlaville Raoul
de Tournai Geoffroi
de Tournebut
de Tourneville Raoul
de Trelli Geoffroi
de Valognes Pierre
de Vatteville Guillaume
de Vatteville Richard
de Vatteville Robert
de Vaubadon Ansfroi
de Vaubadon Osmont
de Vauville Guillaume
de Vaux Altard
de Veci Robert
de Venois
de Ver Aubri
de Ver Guillaume
de Verdun Bertran
de Vernon Gautier
de Vernon Huard
de Vernon Richard
de Vesli Guillaume
de Vesli Hugue
de Vesli Robert
de Villon Robert
de Viville Hugue
de Warci Osberne
de Warenne Guillaume
de Werables Gilbert
de Wissant Gilbert
des Moutiers Robert
des Vaux Robert
du Bec Geoffroi
du Bois-Hebert Hugue (Hugue du Bois-Hibert)
du Bosc-Roard Guillaume
du Breuil Osberne
du Merle
du Perche Comte Geoffroi
du Quesnai Osberne
du Quesnai Raoul
du Saussai Osberne
du Saussai Raoul
du Theil Raoul
du Tilleul Honfroi
Ecouland
Espec Guillaume
Eveque de Bayeux Eude (Eude Evjque de Bayeux)
Flambard Renouf
Folet Guillaume
Fossard Niel (Niel Fossard)
Fresle Richard
Froissart Guillaume
Fromentin Robert
Giffard Berenger
Giffard Gautier
Giffard Osberne
Goulaffre Guillaume
Greslet Aubert
Guernon Robert
Hachet Gautier
Hewse Gautier
Ide Vesci Ive
l'Adoube Ruaud
l'Ane Hugue
l'Archer Guillaume
L'Estourmi Richard
L'ile Raoul
la Cleve Guillaume
Lanfranc
Le Bastard Robert
le Berruier Herve (Hervi le Birruier)
le Blond Gilbert
le Blond Guillaume
Le Blond Robert
le Bouguignon Gautier
le Breton Auvrai
le Despensier Guillaume
le Despensier Robert
le Flamand Jasce
le Flamand Beaudouin
le Flamand Eude
le Flamand Gerboud
le Flamand Guinemar
le Flamand Hugue
le Marechal Geoffroi
le Poitevin Guillaume
le Poitevin Roger
le Roux Alain
le Senechal Eude (Eude le Sinichal)
le Senechal Hamon (Hamon le Sinichal)
le Vicomte
Louvet Guillaume
Malet Durand
Malet Gilbert
Malet Guillaume
Malet Robert
Maminot Gilbert
Maminot Hugue
Mantel Turstin
Martel Geoffroi
Maubenc Guillaume
Mauduit Gonfroi
Mauduit Guillaume
Maurouard Geoffroi
Mautravers Hugue
Merteberge Auvrai
Murdac
Murdac Robert
Musard Hascouf
Musart Hugue
Osmond
Painel Raoul
Pancevolt Bernard
Pantoul Guillaume
Pastforeire Osberne
Peche Guillaume
Pevrel Guillaume
Pevrel Renouf
Picot
Picot Roger
Pinel Raoul
Pipin Raoul
Poignant Guillaume
Poignant Richard
Pointel Thierri
Quesnel Guillaume
Ravenot
Silvestre Hugue
Taillebois Guillaume
Taillebois Ive
Taillebois Raoul
Talbot Geoffroi
Talbot Richard
Tibon Gilbert
Tinel Turstin
Tirel Gautier
Toustain
Tranchant Raoul
Turold
Vaubadon Renouf
Vis-de-Louf Honfroi
Vis-de-Loup Raoul
Vital
Wadard
-
NOTES
From: "Tompkins, Matthew" <MLLTATffwlaw.com>
Date sent: Mon, 16 Aug 1999
Hi Lorine,
I have just seen the page on your website where you list the names on the monument at Dives-s-Mer. I am afraid that list was debunked almost before the mortar on the monument was dry. You will find a very persuasive and scholarly enquiry into the question of just who can be said with certainty to have been with William at the Battle of Hastings in a small pamphlet produced by the Society of Genealogists in London:
"My Ancestors came with the Conqueror" by AJ Camp (1990, London)
I have a copy at home, but not in front of me (I'm at work), but if I remember rightly it is mostly the text of a talk given in 1932 to the Society of Genealogists by Geoffrey White FRHistS. It contains (on page 9) a rather amusing comment by White on the desire everyone has to be descended from someone present at Hastings, as follows:
"No one could examine old pedigrees and peerage books without being convinced that an ancestor who came over with the Conqueror was formerly regarded as an appendage which no gentleman should be without, and that when a man rose in the world, one of his first cares was to adopt an eligible ancestor. And the adoption of an ancestor was in many ways a much easier operation than the adoption of a child. For instance, it would be difficult to adopt a child who did not actually exist, but there was no difficulty in adopting an imaginary ancestor. Again, a child usually had relatives already - even Bunthorne in "Patience", who never had a mother, confessed to an aunt - and their consent to the adoption had to be obtained; but a man who wished to adopt somebody else's ancestor never troubled about such formalities. Thus a really popular ancestor might accumulate quite a number of unconnected families as his descendants, much as a comet might develop a number of tails, or a Hollywood star a number of husbands; although he believed that the stars usually shed one husband before adopting the next. Sic itur ad astra!".
Sorry to be a spoilsport, and congratulations on your site. Most impressive.
Matt Tompkins, London
Response:
Tue, Sep 2, 2008
John Basset Collins johnATpatsysales.com Hi Matthew, I just read your email appended to http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/misc/knights.shtml and am far from certain that you are correct in debunking the Dives-sur-Mer list.
This list of William's followers, set up in 1866 in the church at Dives-sur-Mer (whence William set out on his invasion of England), was compiled from Domesday Book and other authentic records by Léopold Victor Delisle - then working in the Manuscript Department of the Bibliotheque Imperiale (Nationale) in Paris, before becoming head of the National Library in 1874.
Thus, while everyone listed may not actually have been at the Battle of Hastings, they certainly were in England within 20 years after the Battle. It would, however, be more accurate to call it the 1086 List of Knights.
It is certainly a much more reliable list than any copy of the Battle Abbey Roll, even that from the 1330s in the National Library of Scotland (NLS Adv MS 19.2.1).
Delisle has been described as the most learned man in Europe with regard to the middle ages.
My interest is because, after coming from Ouilly-le-Basset in Normandie, "The Basset family probably produced more royal servants in England, from the reign of Henry I until 1250, than any other family." [Basset Charters, c. 1120 to 1250 by William T. Reedy, PhD. Published by the Pipe Roll Society as its New Series No. 50, 1995.] Two of them are named among King John's advisers in the preamble to Magna Carta.
John Collins
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and then there's this so who really knows.......
http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/medieval/4983/Re-Who-Really-Came-With-William-The-Conqueror-In-1066
he 'Companions of the Conqueror' is the collective name given to those individuals who joined with William the Bastard, Duke of Normandy in the great adventure of the invasion of England in 1066, fought at the Duke's side at the battle of Hastings, and later shared in the spoils of victory.
It later became the case that almost every family of note in England were to claim that one of their ancestors was there at Hastings with the Conqueror and a matter of pride that they could trace their origins back to the founding year of 1066. As time went by the list of alleged companions grew larger and larger with many authenticating their claim by citing as evidence various lists of the 'companions' that had appeared.
The first of these was the Battle Abbey Roll originating from Battle Abbey built by William I on the site of his victory at Hastings. This was as scroll tablet bearing the names of sundry counts, viscounts, barons and knights which was later interpretated as a list of William the Conqueror's companions. The original of this document is no longer extant and it is only known through various sixteenth century copies which often differ in content. (The longest version has 629 names although several of these are believed to be duplicates.)
There was also the similar Falaise Roll originating from Falaise in Normandy which existed in about eight versions and which also listed the names of those hardy souls who set sail with Duke William in 1066. In 1931 the French Government produced an 'authorised' version of the Falaise Roll listing some 315 names which were engraved on the bronze tablet and erected in the Chapel of Falaise Castle in Normandy.
Unfortunately as a guide to identifying the true Companions of the Conqueror neither of these two sources are now regarded as of any value. The Battle Abbey Roll is now believed to be a much later list of families of a generally 'French' origin, and the Falaise Roll is similarly regarded as medieval concoction.
The actual list of names of those undoubted companions who where present with William at the Battle of Hastings is actually quite short and consists of only fifteen names as follows;
a.. 1. Robert de Beaumont, later Earl of Leicester
b.. 2. Eustace of Boulogne, Count of Boulogne
c.. 3. William of Evreux, later Count of Evreux
d.. 4. Geoffrey of Mortagne, later Count of Perche
e.. 5. William Fitz Osbern, later Earl of Hereford
f.. 6. Aimeri de Thouars, Vicomte of Thouars
g.. 7. Hugh de Montfort, seigneur of Montfort-sur-Risle
h.. 8. Walter Giffard, seigneur of Longueville
i.. 9. Ralph de Toeni, seigneur of Conches
j.. 10. Hugh de Grandmesil, seigneur of Grandmesnil
k.. 11. William de Warenne, later Earl of Surrey
l.. 12. William Malet, seigneur of Graville
m.. 13. Odo of Bayeux, Bishop of Bayeux, later Earl of Kent
n.. 14. Turstin Fitz Rou
o.. 15. Engenulf de Laigle, seigneur of Laigle
To this list can be added the names of five more of individuals who where in the Norman invasion force and were therefore very probably at Hastings;
a.. 16. Geoffrey de Montbray, Bishop of Coutances.
b.. 17. Robert of Mortain, Count of Mortain, later Earl of Cornwall.
c.. 18. Wadard, believed to be a follower of the Bishop of Bayeux.
d.. 19. Vital, believed to be a follower of the Bishop of Bayeux.
e.. 20. Goubert d'Auffay, seigneur of Auffay.
All these names are derived from contemporary or near contemporary records as follows; Numbers 1-12, and 16 were named by William of Poitiers, numbers 13, and 17-19 were portrayed in the Bayeux Tapestry, numbers 14, 15 and 20 were named by Orderic Vitalis.
~~~~~~~~
SOURCES
The list of twenty names originates from "The Complete Peerage" by George Cockrayne et al, specifically in Volume XII, in the postscript to Appendix L (regarding the 1066 Battle of Hastings), "Companions of the Conqueror," pp. 47-48
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Oh my goodness, must make a cafe and read all this info up, nice to see you back Yi, its been too quiet without you :)thanks for all that! onwards!
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Sorry Grace,
Wasnt getting email updates since I changed my email address! Kept meaning to look in as I thought you guys were all a bit too quiet!
Have looked into the William C lists and its all very dubious - seems like a list of those who came over 'at some point' as oppsed to the invading force - and due to the spelling varients 'de blunvil' isnt there - or is he ? theres a 'de Bondeville Richard' ? but who knows!
Cant figure out the Viscount of Saxmundham bit though - do I gather this is a modern title carried now? by an Australian?? Couldnt find anything about it other than that one biography I quoted.
Would love a look at Peter's info regarding the connection with William C's mother though - especially as theres a ''vague' link via his half brother (same mum) to the Blunvil family anyway.
Chat soon
Yi :-*
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I have found this,
According to the plaque displayed at Notre-Dame de Dives, in Dives sur Mer, Normandy, a Richard de Bondeville was numbered among Duke William's 345 Companions in Arms who sailed from there in 1066 for the Battle of Hastings. Bondeville, however, is a different place to Blonville, so there may be no connection. Afterwards, many of William's companions and supporters took advantage of the post-conquest resettlement opportunities (free land and manors) and took up substantial landholdings. In 1086, Richard de Blunvill held lands in Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex.
from source http://www.jacksontree.co.uk/Blunderfield.htm
which is exactly what my personal thoguht were - but of course only thoughts......
Yi
PS I have found this tree and info on it usually matches with my and Peters early info.
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there's about 40 miles betwen Bondeville and Blonville sur mer.
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ALERT, ALERT,
ALL HAND'S ON DECK
YI NEEDS HELP.......
In brief I need 2 things can you help?
1) does anyone have access to these records....
NORFOLK RECORDS OFFICE
http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/Dserve/dserve.exe?dsqServer=128.60.0.31&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=7&dsqSearch=%28%28PlaceCode==%27GB/153/PL/280%27%29%29
My computer crashes when I try to open thier site - I am happy to pay for the record ifthats how to get a copy - could someone look into how to get it or does someone already have access?
2)
Does anyone have an upgraded Ancestry subscription to view British Chancery Records. I need a Robert Blomvyle/Blomvill died c 1498 looked up in them
I use my cousins membership so cant join for a free month on someone elses account - however one of you may already have ot or be prepared to look it up on a free trial
Thanks Gail for finding all this out - we now have to try and sort it all out ;D
REF 1 - above...
Robert Blomvill born c1410-1458 died after 1503(?)
son of William Blomville and Elizabeth de Bosville of Newton Flotman
alegedly he was witness at his brother Richards Will in 1503
However his brother Richard died in 1490 but his nephew Richard died in 1503 - if the above record at Norfolk Records Office states he was there at the brother or nephews Will in 1503 - then he cant have been the same Robert who died in Stonham in 1498.
Simple - problem solved!
REF 2 above
Re Robert Blomvill/Blomvyle died c 1498
Gail found on ancestry soem recent additions - there are several trees stating Robert son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville of the Newton Flotman line is the father of Gilbert Blomvyle of the Stonham Parva line.
Looking into the trees source info is blank so I am assuming it is copied from 1 or 2 trees on there to other trees and the trees that mention citations and sources are...
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/17733870/person/1326620705?ssrc=
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11247141/person/1406456379
one mentions their source as British Chancery Records and that his wife Isabel is all from this citation
So we need to view these records for
a) to check his wife is actually an Isabel Cockerell
b) to see if his paretsn are mentioned as being William and Elizabeth de Bosville
OR has some one looked it up and just assumed this Robert who died in Stonham Parva in 1498 is the son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville.
Facts are that there is a Robert who is Gilbert Blomvyles father in Stonham Parva and he died in 1498.
Fact is there is a Robert who is the son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville alive around the same time in Newton Fltoman.
Fact is that Roberts brother William DID move to Stonham Parva around this time and marry there.
Fact is that there is already an older Blomvyle family in Stonham Parva already well settled with a Will dating 1416 of a Gilbert Blomvyle.
Fact - the Newton line do NOT use the name Gilbert.
Fact the Stonham line DO use the name Gilbert
So are there 2 Roberts or one?
and is the use of the name Gilbert a coincidence as not used in the Flotman line which is odd to bring in a new name
or
is the name Gilbert used because it is a Stonham line name and is following father son tradition
Also note that one of the d'Blunvil pedigrees of Newton Flotman line states that from Robert son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville decends the Baronets of Blomefield (Pedigree from Hilliard, EV Bloomfield, Francis B records)
well the Stonham lot were never Baronets or do I need to start wearing a coronet???? ;) :D ;D ::) ???
If anyone could help do some reseach with me it would be great as this is the link many of us on here want and Gail may just have stumble across it.
The best is we have a wives name for the Stonham Robert.
The worst is we look up the records and are stuck where we are.
I could approach my cousin about upgrading his ancestry for a month but I'd rather see if any of you have it or have access it 1st if thats ok.
Cant wait for yoru thoughts but do a trace in trees for Robert Blomvyle on ancestry and it will show you what people are linking in.
We just need the facts.
Thansk a lot guys
Yi Win
:)
Ps PM me if you want my email add.
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wow! Yi, that sounds all very very interesting, the link HAS to be there somewhere, lets pray someone has access to the info you wants, I am certain that once the missing link found it will all pop into place, yes i did find it odd that the name Gilbert was not followed through in the descending generations, that to my mind was a red flag, so what you indicate re Gilberts line may be factual.....crikey this is getting even more exciting, sorry I don't have any access to Ancestry..heaps of luck and good wishes Grace
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Hi All,
Gail is going to go via the Norfolk Records Office and get the Will 1503 of Richard and i'll half the bill with her - my computer is slow and old and their site wont load properly on my computer - it freezes so thats why i needed the help there.
Peter Myler (sure most of you will heave heard of him if you are in our branch of the Blomvyles) is going to go over the Ancestry trees and see if he can get into the British Chancery Records but he's not a subscribed member so if anyone otu there is can they look it up please.
he is going to ask the tree owners for their documents.
Grace,
yes the name 'Gilbert' has always put a doubt in a few of our minds - there are several possible links into the main line but all have queries on them.
2 of William and Elizabeth de Bosville's kids could have been likely candidates
William or Robert - however Williams line is well documented in the various pedigrees and books under William and Ann Cutting and no mention of a Gilbert apepars as a child and all the other names are familiar to that line.
Robert who is our query remains so even though Gilberts father is another Robert.
It is mentioned in one pedigree that from this Robert (son of W & E) the Baronets Blomefield decended - I looked into this and the baronet was created 1807
see this site....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blomefield_Baronets
and appears to have been from a branch in Attleborough - which in itself proves nothing but IF this Robert was also the one who went to Stonham surely it would have been better documented but the evidence swings elsewhere for his decedents.
And then we have the Will of Gilbert Blomvyle 1416 stating he is of Stonham and has 2 brothers John and William of Stonham.
I has this Will translated from Latin and if I can figure out how to attach it here I will do so - again this computer may not load the document.
Have fun
Yi
PS it wont let me up load the Will it says wrong format but if anyone wants a copy i can attach to am email if you PM me.
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Re the name Gilbert....
Gilbert Will 1416 - Stonham
Gilbert 1450 - 1524 -Stonham
(Thomas son of above had Thomas, Gilbert 1501, John, Henry - moved to Diss,)
Gilbert 1501 had Thomas, Simon, John, Nicholas,
it is quite possible a son Gilbert did not survive and so the name was discontinued rather than name the next son the same.
It is usual to use the fathers, grandfathers and then father in laws names to name the sons.
of Gilberts sons
Thomas died young
Simon only had a girl
Nicholas may or may not be a son and his family is unknown
John's son was
John Thomas (after him and 2nd name Thomas after grandfather)
then we have Roger, Barnaby, Samuel and Robert!
maybe it was a time to call kids other names, or after the wives family or maybe more survived and were named out of the family tradition - maybe to do with religious views.
However nothing is known about these other sons by me but John Thomas called his own kids after dad, grandad and his brothers!
Henry (Diss) however had a grandson called Gilbert in c1580 but little is known by me of this line as to whether the name continued.
There was also a Gilbert in 1659 - Stonham
he was decended from Robert son of Gilbert 1450
then the name appears again in the Australian line
Uriel Gilbert 1836
Uriel Gilbert c1850
Clement Gilbert 1878
This family is decended from the UK Mendlesham line but probably not linked to Gilbert 1450's family.
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Hi all
Just to let you know I have ordered the will from the Norfolk Records Office. This may take some time coming (I was told 10 days to 2 weeks) they are busy, so no quick answers. As soon as I get it I will scan it and send a copy to Yi Win.
Couldn't believe how many trees there are now on ancestry for the Bloomfields/Blomvyles (gosh there are certainly a lot of us!). Unfortunately my subscription with them doesn't give access to the Chancery Records. Let's keep our fingers crossed some of this information may help.
Gail
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Hi,
Will follows - not all of it coz it wouldnt fit in the given space on here but if anyone wants to read it all it will fit on another 2 posts....
translation from Latin
The will of Gilbert Blomwile (PROB 11/2B)
In the name of God, Amen, on the second day of the month of March in the year of the lord 1415 and in the third year of the reign of Henry V after the conquest, I, Gilbert Blomwile, citizen and cloth-worker of London, being sound of mind and in my memory, found, ordain and make my present testament of my last will in this manner. First of all, I bequeath and commend my soul to omnipotent God, my creator and saviour, and to the Blessed Virgin Mary, his mother, and to all the saints, and my body to be buried in the parish church of St Michael upon Cornehull, London, if I have happen to die in London, but if elsewhere, wherever God out of his mercy wishes to arrange this for me. Item, I bequeath to the highest altar of the same church for my tithes and oblations forgotten and withdrawn 20s. Item, I bequeath to the fabric fund of the body of the same church 20s. Item, I bequeath to each stipendiary chaplain of the same church to beg for my soul 12d. Item, I bequeath towards the finding of a suitable and honest chaplain to celebrate divine services for my soul and the souls of my father and mother and of all the faithful deceased in the aforesaid church of St Michael throughout the three entire years next following after my decease £20. I wish that the same chaplain be charged to be present at all the divine services in the aforesaid church to do, just as it pertains [to him to do]. Item, I bequeath to John my son £20 of sterling. Item, I bequeath to Rose his ?mother 40s. Item, I bequeath towards the new roofs of the church of Stonham Germygan, where I was born, one fother of lead.
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Just discovered these new posts, so will have a good read, thank you so very very much for all the work, golly this is addictive, one just has to KNOW!!!!! Yes the Gilbert name absence is odd but then again, there may have been family circumstances we are not aware of as to why it was dropt..........I am sure we will unravel this mystery in time, many thanks again :>)
re Guilbert's will. a new roof for the church in Stonham where he was born......and somewhere I have seen that name Rose..hmmmmmm thinking cap goes on .........
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any luck with the thinking cap?
;)
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It was the wrong Rose and the wrong date...drat!
But have been researching 'WOODFIELD MANOR' which evidently was occupied by one of our ancestors of the Blomfield Blomvyle Family tree, John Blomfield clothier of Dedham and family/families, c 1700's..., its a very fine looking listed grade 1 building, quite fascinating to find something of that age that our family owned and occupied, most buildings are long gone, some nice photos on the internet of it.....
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Four Elms and Clockhouse in Stonham are still there - they are both working farms and listed buildings - I did try to contact the local Historian for some pics and he said he'd look into it and ask the owners but didnt get back to me.
I hope to go and visit at some point but it is about a 6hr drive from where we live and with 2 dogs.............. its a long way to go to look at a house (and only from the outside at that - with no guarantee of any pics)
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that would be wonderful, I am trying to obtain some photographic evidence of where some the Blomfields/Blonvyles used to live for the Blomfield website, sadly most of the older Manors/Halls/buildings have long gone ...as its so far back in time but one lives in hope! :>) any photos re old Blomfields estates etc., would be most welcome :)
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Hi Grace,
This may interest you or not but here goes.
The local historian I contacted put me in touch with the historian in Mendlesham and while i was talking to him he told me that quite a lot of the original manors simpley no longer exist because originally it was the main (Manor) house that the workers lived around, the church was built around, the the land farmed around.
Then in later years it became more fashionable for the 'Lord' to live away from his workers and he moved outside the village and into a more spaceous area leaving behind the workers, church and land.
The original building then fell into disuse (many near churches) and this is why they are no longer there.
The later manors changed hands often due to loans and mortgages that were taken out to build them which meant the next generation sold or let them to cover costs.
Hope thats of interest somewhere to someone.
Yi
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The local historian I contacted put me in touch with the historian in Mendlesham
Have you been chatting to Geoff or Don ;D
Pat ...
http://www.slhc.org.uk/recorders.html
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Thanks for that info Yi, that makes a lot of sense, go live in a castle/manorhouse and let the staff have the house lol :>). was interested to read re Gilberts will that he had property in Calias France, as well as his estate in England, very interesting somewhere in one of these wills etc., there must be a reference to who we are looking for it HAS to be somewhere!!!! And I feel happier now having solved, well almost ,the Blomvyle Hall in Easton Hacheson with the Blomvyles owing a good deal of land there way back, not my line but interesting nevertheless, as no one, simply no one knew where the Hall had got its name!!!!!!
I feel we are gaining ground slowly, thanks to all who have helped, its amazing and incredible!!!! you guys rock!!! :)
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Hi Pat,
I didnt know you were suffolkmawther - you'll know me as Amanda who contacted you re Four Elms, Mowness & Clockhouse (Blomvlle houses) - you put me in touch with them - small world!!!
Hi Grace and all,
Gayla has the Will -its hard to read -she's going for a translation quote as the English is quite difficult - will keep you up to date.
Yi ;D
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I did wonder at the time if you had put two and two together ;D
I have enjoyed following all this information - although I have only one tenuous link via Bridges to Blomfield.
Pat ...
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You are that local historian I contacted - oh dear the cats out the bag now - they'll all be after you for info! ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Yi and all can anyone help me with this? it was sent to me by a Blomfield family member UK, I thought this was all sorted out? as a lot of our Family tree pivots on this, I do not hold all the data to check it out here in NZ
message as below...
('The two big problems are as follows
1. Henry Blomfield married to Grace Stannard.---- I have found their Marriage details;
HENRY BLOMEFYLD & GRACE STANNARD ON 23RD SEPTEMBER 1564 @ WITHERSDALE.--Now upon the tree you sent to me one of the siblings is THOMAS BLOOMFIELD? We have no proof that he had a son with this name.
2.We have a THOMAS BLOMEFYLD & MARY BACON ON 04 FEBUARY 1602 @ WITHERSDALE.--We have been unable to prove the names of his Mother AND Father so far.')
??????? any confirmation I can send this guy please..ta muchly
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Hello Lady Grace,
Cripes - not my branch but I think I have some info on this branch and it should say where or who the info is from.
Will go have a look see and get back to you but as not my line down the info I have could be very sketchy! (and not from any research by me)
Yi
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,438529.0.html
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Hi Lady Grace,
This is what I have and where it comes from....
IGI
Henry Blomfield
Birth: 15 JUN 1535 Mickfield,East, , Suffolk, England
Parents:
Father: John Blomfield
Mother: Elizabeth Blomfield
P Myler puts this Henry as son of John of Bury St Edmunds
LC Sier puts this Henry as a son of a Stonham Blomfield decendent.
LC Sier
The pedigree of the family now under review commences with Henry Blomfield (A), of Mickfield, who was living in the fifteenth century. He, in all probability, was a son of one of the Blomfields of Stonham. Mickfield is only two miles North of Little Stonham. The Tanner Manuscripts state "he purchased lands in Debenham called Stonham-field and built thereon" and it is suggested he did what is frequently done to-day, viz: named the field after his original place of residence, as it could not have been that the field was adjoining Stonham Parva or Stonham Aspall, Debenham being some miles distant from either of these Villages.
You Have
HENRY BLOMEFYLD & GRACE STANNARD ON 23RD SEPTEMBER 1564 @ WITHERSDALE
I have on the tree...
IGI info fro Henry
Marriages:
Spouse: Grace Stannard
Marriage: 23 SEP 1564
note: no location - location is from P Myler - possibly assumed as all children born in Mickfield.
Am going to check the parish records I have to see if they include Mickfield.....
hang on........
Yes I have the parish record kindly provided by Peter Myler and they state
Church Mickfield
Date 1564 9 23
Event Marriage
Surname Blomefyld
First name Henry
Spouse Grace Stannard
Remember I only have a copy of what Peter has - he has the actual records.
I dont know where Withersdale comes from and have never heard of the name....
hang on again....
This is from the record of Henry's brother Anthony....
A Han:-
Anthony Blomfyld & Elizabeth Drofeman 03 Nov 1562
Book: Marriages at Withersdale, 1660 to 1837. (Marriage)
Collection: Suffolk: - Registers of Marriages (Various Parishes), 1539-1837
IGI -
Anthony Blomfield
Birth: 04 SEP 1536 Of, Mickfield, Suffolk, England
Parents:
Father: John Blomfield
Mother: Elizabeth Blomfield
from P Myler...
Anthony: b 1536 to John B and Elizabeth at Mickfield.
Married Elizabeth Croseman 1562 in Mickfield
and has son Phillip b 1563 in Mickfield
So I would assume Withersdale is perhaps a parish within Mickfield as the marriage is also registered as Mickfield.
Now upon the tree you sent to me one of the siblings is THOMAS BLOOMFIELD?
Yes Henry appears to have had a brother Thomas b c1547 married a Margaret and had 7 kids - for note on one of his kids marriage is states Withersdale (various parishes) which kind of suggest Withersdale is a parish not a place.
We have no proof that he had a son with this name.
This is the info I have on Thomas the son and the sources the info came from...
A Han / P Myler / G Blomfield
IGI
Thomas Blomfield
Birth: 1576 Mickfield, Suffolk, England
Parents:
Father: Henry Blomfield
Mother: Grace Stannard
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY BACON
Marriage: 04 FEB 1602 Mickfield, Suffolk, England
Thomas Blomefyld & Mary Bacon 04 Feb 1602
However on checking the Parish records I cant find a record of a Thomas being entered but nor can I find a record of a son George yet LC Sier mentions him
LC Sier
The first Henry Blomfield had two sons, Henry ("B") and George, the first of whom married twice, first to Ann Aldus, of Axingfield and, secondly, to Margaret Legat. His second son, George, returned to Little Stonham.
Book: Marriages at Withersdale, 1660 to 1837. (Marriage)
Collection: Suffolk: - Registers of Marriages (Various Parishes), 1539-1837
The parish records have this Henry entered.
So Thomas being the son of Henry all rests on the International Geneaology records being transcribed correctly
one immedaite thing that springs to min is this entry from the parish records...
Mickfield 1576
Baptism Blomefyld Stephen
Henry Grace Mk
same year as Thomas supposedly was born yet no parish entry?
conclusion - findings inconclusive!
IGI records can not be relied on as accurate - but then there are many errors in parish records too.
Having just looked up the IGI records it definitely states on marriage transcibed from the parish records the parents are Henry and Grace
The copy of the parish records I have do not state the parents but the original parish records may do so - I will ask Peter if he still has copies of them and what they say.
Clear as mud as usual.
Yi
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cheers youngtug - posts clashed - only thickens the plot really!!
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thanks for your trouble all, the only way we could be 100% correct is to have a Thomas in Henry's will I guess or birth data, so we are at this moment 99.9% sure that the Thomas Blomfield in question is Henry and Graces son, but as in all genealogy there is an element of doubt until facts are proven 100%, all his childrens christian names fit in with his family names so that a bonus..it ever onwards......:>)
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Hi,
This is the info from Peter Myler.....
According to my tree Henry BLOMEFIELD and Grace STANNARD of Mickfield had 7
children:
Katherine (b 1565)
Elizabeth (b 1566)
Joan (b 1569)
Rachel (b 1571)
John (b 1574 d 1629)
Stephen (b 1576 d 1579)
Henry (b 1578)
I have Thomas BLOMEFIELD (b 1580 d 1649) marrying Mary BAKER on 04 Feb 1602
in Mickfield (from the Parish records). His parents were Thomas BLOMEFIELD
(c1547-1623) and Margaret ????.
muddy's the water's somewhat!
But to be honest I cant find any doc evidence of Thomas being Henry's son from the Parish records.
but their daughter is called Grace - the names (as you say) match the family)
I have gone back to Peter and asked if he has anything on where Thomas's parents fit in.
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PS
For note the IGI records on line have several extra kids down as belonging to Henry & Grace
IGI
Elizabeth Blomfield
Birth: About 1573 Mickfield, Suffolk, England
Parents:
Father: Henry Blomfield
Mother: Grace Stannard
IGI
Thomas Blomfield
Birth: 1576 Mickfield, Suffolk, England
Parents:
Father: Henry Blomfield
Mother: Grace Stannard
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY BACON
Marriage: 04 FEB 1602 Mickfield, Suffolk, England
and a guy called Neil Alexander has an Ann as part of this family
LC Sier seems to have a George
LC Sier
The first Henry Blomfield had two sons, Henry ("B") and George, the first of whom married twice, first to Ann Aldus, of Axingfield and, secondly, to Margaret Legat. His second son, George, returned to Little Stonham.
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Parish entry.....
Mickfield 1602 2 14
Marriage Blomefyld Thomas
Mary Baker/Bacon
children
Mickfield 1608
Baptism Blomefylde Mary
Thomas Mary
Mickfield 1611
Baptism Blomefyld Jane
Thomas Mary
Mickfield 1619
Baptism Blomfeild Robert
Thomas Mary
Mickfield 1620
Burial Blomfeild Robert
Thomas Mary
Mickfield 1624
Baptism Blomfeild Ezechiell
Thomas Mary
all the other kids appear in IGI ONLY and not in the parish records.
The other kids do not appear in the parish records as children of another set of parents - they just arent there.
I am double checking with Peter for you.
Yi
(please remember I am not looking at the original but a transcribed version)
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ok so this is what we appear to have
parish records
Thomas Blomfyld m Mary Baker (Bacon?)
parents
Thomas Blomfyld b 1547 Mickfield m Margaret
parents
John Blomfield b 1511 Bury St Ed d Mickfield m Elizabeth
parents
John Blomvyle b 1488 died Bury St Ed m Anne
parents
Gilbert Blomvyle and Elizabeth English
HOWEVER this Thomas and Mary have the children mentioned in the Parish Records (listed in thread above) and NOT those mentioned in the IGI records.
Where the IGI records came from who allocated the Thomas there with Henry and Grace and who those kids are I do not know - they are not in the paris h records I have access too.
I have asked Peter to check his parish records to see if he can a) find them in the Mickfield ones b) find them elsewhere.
Yi
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Hi,
not good news
Generally Peter has found IGI records to be unreliable and conflicting and prefers to use them as clues to go back and find the Parish records and says the LDS has significant incentive to “make up” family lines.
So we cant find this family!
Doesnt mean to say it doesnt exist - it so obviously does but perhaps not where we think they do?
Sorry! Run out of clues here!
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Thanks so very much for all your trouble and time Yi & co, I will relay this info back to cousin in Uk, aha 8) hmmmmmmm interesting indeed
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Back again, well well thats interesting, just been rechecking on the Blomfield Family chart and our Thomas Blomvyle 1547-1623 is actually down here as Henry' s(1535) brother, so going by your data, its a brother and not a son it would seem, phew, now thats very very interesting, thanks again, will have to adjust the charts a little now..thats again guys thats great!!! 8) :) we have the line down from Thomas and Mary, Bacon just had him as a son whereas by your correct data he was Henrys brother..great stuff!!!!! will keep checking on....and on...and on ;)
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Parish entry.....
'Mickfield 1602 2 14 Marriage Blomefyld Thomas
Mary Baker/Bacon
children
Mickfield 1608
Baptism Blomefylde Mary '
This dating seems rather odd and I would make a guess not entirely all there?... that there would be a gap of 6years from the marriage 1602, to the birth of their first child,1608 ? so I am assuming there must be other children born before than 1608???? lol this is a proper mixup ????????? I've sent this data off to a couple of the Blomfield cousins UK to see if they can get their heads together and work this lot out!! ::)
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Hi Yi re Thomas & Mary Blomfield, we have all had a look at data provided and a state of confusion reigns ??? , dates/names just don't correlate so until such time as we can come up the goodies like birth records, wills etc., to prove conclusively who is who and how and when and why ::), we have decided to leave our Family tree as it is on this particular member.....for the present time.......:>)
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Hi Lady Grace,
(some reason not getting email notifications sorry)
yes it's a complete muddle - there seems to be 2 branches - the Parish Records one and the IGI one and both a completely different .
When in doubt leave it be with a '?' next to it and someone helpful may come along with more info in the end.
(modified due to my typo errors)
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In regard to the common link on ancestry to Robert father of Gilbert Blomvyle and Elizabeth English being the same Robert of the Newton Flotman line who is the son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville.
As far as I can tell the 1st one died in 1498 Stonham and the 2nd was still alive in 1503 (according to Will 1503 of brother Richard) so they can not be the same person.
However the Will has opened a small can of worms which I am going through so will keep you updated.
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Firstly many grateful thanks to Gail...secondly I'll join you in that glass of Brandy..phew as you say a pretty pickle :o!!!!! I would say off the top of my head that the parish records 'should ' be the most authentic?I have also seen where two sons of the same family have been christened with the same name if one has died earlier ,maybe that was an inheritance thing in those days re lineage & the eldest surviving son? :-\ lol anyone got a working crystal ball! um?
curiouser and curiouser said Alice:>)
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Hi Lady Grace,
The Will 1503 is throwing up a few queries
if anyoine can translate this date...
Ml CCCClxxxx
I'd be very grateful!
This could be a key factor (and re-open the worms i'm afraid)
It was common to name a 2nd child after the one who previously died - in my family my grandfather had a bit of a shock one day to find his own death certificate!
He always thought that he was named after an older brother who had died .
However when I looked more closely I noticed the age at death was an inconsitancy if he were indeed my grandfathers elder brother - there wasnt enough time between the 2 births for a 2nd child to have been born.
I looked into the mystery further and discoverd a sad tale.
My grandfathers older brother was 21 years older then he was - he signed up to fight in WW! and just before he left for the front he married.
While he was fighting on the front his new wife gave birth to a son, this son had my grtandfathers name. The soldier was killed in action on the last day of the battle of Messines Ridge and never saw his son.
The wife then gave the child to my grt grandmother to be brought up and I havent found out anything further about her.
The child died some months later when my grt grandmother was pregnant with her youngest (of 13) son - this son was my grandfather and was named after his nephew who died.
I did not discover this until after my grandfathers death so he never knew his 'older' brother was actually his nephew.
Let me know if anyone has any ideas about the date - it is quite literally the key.
Yi
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If it wasn't for the L after the M I would say 1373. Are there any other lines over the numerals, or any other marks?
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Hi Youngtug,
The 1st time I got 1392.
Then I worked out the end bit as 90 if it's an l (lower case L)
lxxxx = 90
the CCCC = 400
but the Ml (lower case L) = 1050
or MI = 1001
as far as I know there's no upper or lower marks - I am going to double check - I am not viewing the document - my cousin Gayle is but she cant copy it as it's copyrighted.
Gayle came up with the initial translation of the date (not me!! so give her the credit please) as a possible 1490 this would put the Will dated 1503 in doubt as the Roman numerals seem to indicate a different date.
This sheds doubt into Roberts dates!
Currently we have Robert who died in Stonham in 1498 as the father of Gilbert who married Elizabeth English.
As the Robert son of William and Elizabeth de Bosville was alive at his brothers Will in 1503 this made the Roberts be separate people.
IF the Will is 1490 (which would match in with other documents and a church engraving) then this puts this Robert alive in 1490 and he could have died in Stonham in 1498.
It IS a very weak link but never the less one to be looked into.
The date is crucial here.
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Hi,
Just a little snippet...
The Will was proved at Norwich on 30 May 1503.
hmmm.... of course does this mean Robert as an executor would be alive in 1503?
Is this possible if his brother Richard died in 1490 for it to be proved 13 years later?
Any one got any ideas?
Yi
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400 should be CD
90 should be XC
You should not have a run of four numerals the same. If, as it looks, this is not complying with the rules then it is going to be nearly impossible to get a correct interpretation.
It looks like my first try was wrong anyhow.
So, M=1000.
L=50 or I=1 ?
CCC=300
So could be; CCC-L=250 or CCC-I=299.Either one dosn't really work because of the following numerals.
or;- CCCC=400
So could be CCCC-L=350 or CCCC-I=399. Same problem as above.
Then if CCC=300 the following CL=150
Then we have the problem of the Xs, there should not be four in a row, three would be 30 but 40 should be XL
LX would be 60 so we could have LX+XXX=90 but that should read XC
If it was MCCCCLXXXX without the L/l after the M then it could be 1490 if you take the the run of four Cs=400 and the L=50 + 40[four Xs]=90. The l is in the wrong place to deduct from XXXX and leave 39 making 1439. Although it is not correctly done so???????
The problem is the L/I after the M. I cannot bsee why it's there.
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Evening all, and may I butt in for a moment, as a fellow Blo(o)mfield hunter?
The discussion about Roman numerals reminded me that there was a similar discussion way back on these boards relating to rules not being followed. So I did a search on Roman numerals and found the thread in Nov/Dec 2009. One contributor to this thread stated that the accepted rules for Roman numerals were not always followed in the 16th century: thus it would be quite usual to see iiij for 4, or cccc for 400.
Regards,
GS
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Hi GS, welcome to butt in, help us out on this. Think we accept that the rules have not been followed, all to do with education and personal interpretation, but why the L/I after the M?
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Hi YT - the reason I went on my search of the archives was to try to answer that question; I was hoping the previous posts might throw some light thereon but alas they are silent on the subject. I think it is difficult to make a proper assessment without sight of the actual image, don't you? It could be an inadvertent shake on the part of the writer of course! I agree with you entirely that the 'l' in that place does not, and cannot, make sense - unless it is following rules of which we are unaware!
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Thank you Greensleeves and Youngtug,
Gayle and I were thinking along the same lines her the letter I /L after the M should not be there. It is Gayle who is looking at the original document.
Also regardless of how many rules are 'broken' ie Lxxxx = 90 the letter after the M is just not right - if it was 399 making it M ICCCC = 1399 then the Lxxxx just isnt right - regardless of breaking all rules and doing all combinations the letter after the M just doesnt fit - Gayle is looking over the document again.
The reasoning of the dating being crucial is IF this Will is of Richard who died 1503 then
a) he cant BE his father who died in 1490 as some claim (ie they miss out a generation going straight Richard the father to Richard the son not Richard father to Richard son to Richard the nephew)
b) his brother Robert alive in 1503 cant be Gilbert of Stonham's father as that Robert died in 1498.
HOWEVER if you 'skip' out Richard d 1503 and say he died in 1490 then Robert d 1498, as his brother, would have been alive and would be a nice 'slot' in for Gilberts father.
Which is what some trees on ancestry have recently done.
Is it a leap of faith or are they privvy to some info we've not yet discovered - they all have seemed to have copied from one 'source' tree and that tree quotes the source of its info as Will of Richard 1503 which is why Gayle not only got it but had it translated.
Unfortunatley the tree owner hasnt come back to us with any comments.
He could be correct and the Stonham Blomfields are decendecd from Robert son of Richard and Catherine Inglosse or he could be wrong and the Stonham bloomfields are connected elsewhere and via Gilbertus Blomvyle of Stonham Will 1415.
Or we may just never answer the question.
Will keep you up to date - we have people on it researching.
Yi
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I can't say I would trust the trees on Ancestry - too many people just link in with other trees without checking their facts. I have found the most appalling mistakes on people's trees relating to my family; and whenever I contact them to ask them to make a correction, there is silence.
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Well said Greensleeves!!!!
Same here - silence but as they quoted a document we thought we'd get hold of said document and look it up.
The logic behind the theory seems sound - it looks like a valid link so its worth checking it out - just a pity they wont reply with assisting us!
However there are several contradictory bits of evidence which seem to confirm that there are indeed Richard the father, Richard the son and Richard the nephew.
The Will is refering to what looks like Richard the son in which case we have 2 brothers we didnt know about and a muddle with the sons!
I will explain more when I've delved further!
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Forgive me if I have posted this before, I don't think I have, it was in a pile of notes that I have taken whilst browsing;
The Manor of Blundeville's or Newton Hall
Which had it's name from it's owners.
William DeBlundeville. Bhmevyle or B/unne.
Who had it of the gift of Henry De Rhye with Blomevyles Manor in Depham.
Left it to;-
Richards son, who was Lord in 1226, being nephew to Thomas De Blumville, bishop of Norwich.
He [Richard] was succeded byWilliam Blumvyle,
And he by Katherine, his widow.
William,their son held it of the manor of Hingliam, as of the Barony of Rhye.
In 1388, Richard Blumvyh held it.
And in 1420 William Blumvyle, Esq, was succeded by Richard Blomevyle, Esq,
And he by Catherine, his wife.
And she by Richard their son, who died in 1514.
Whose son Edward was Lord and died in 1568.
And in 156? Thomas his son held a court Baron & Lete.
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I can't say I would trust the trees on Ancestry - too many people just link in with other trees without checking their facts. I have found the most appalling mistakes on people's trees relating to my family; and whenever I contact them to ask them to make a correction, there is silence.
Reading your post and couldn't agree more. I have come across the same section of my tree on several sites on the net.....yes, I gave the information to the person many years ago....he then wrote me a long time later apologising because he had made an error and we weren't related after all. I thanked him for letting me know and asked him if he would mind removing the incorrect data on ALL of his user sites as it's very misleading to other researchers and that I didn't want these errors mushrooming out of control after being used by others................like you Greensleeves, no response and the errors have multiplied. I find this terribly selfish as it's a dreadful time waster to contact a person and be lead astray - it just continues on being replicated and confusing new researchers. >:( Despite being asked several times to remove the data, providing sensible reasons and pointing out the pitfalls, how do others deal with this?
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youngtug,
You are a star - the copy I have from EV or Francis BLoomfield (not at own computer at min so cant look up record to see which) states Richard son of Catherine d 1503!
Would make far more sence.
Ahhhhh - will have to wait til tomorrow when i can try and put it all together!!
Hi Clemmie,
You cant deal with it - you just have to hope that if it leads people astray they get back on track.
If we could contact this person and get a responce and how he figured out the link we'd not be doing all this double checking now.
it does look like a valid link - but as youngtug has just sprung up - we have now another bit of info that discounts it.
Personally we have more info discrediting this link at the moment than we have for it being a positive but we have to sift it all through and still may not come to any firm conclusions.
My own tree states where the source info comes from ie a document or another persons trees not researched by me so I am aware fo what bits are proved or not or 'borrowed' with persmission.
As Lady Grace full well knows we have 2 sets of kids for the same parents on the tree - one set come from IGI and one from Parish - I have commented with '?' next the the IGI records on my tree and under notes it states that this is possibly in the wrong location.
On the other hand sometimes putting a suggested link on does provide evidence for its confirmation or removal if another person sees it but it is put on as "a suggested link please can anyone help with this"
All you can do is hope someoen contacts you and you can correct them.
not a lot of help I know.
Youngtug - will look into those dates and get back to you - thanks that will be a big help.
Yi
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Hi everyone
Sorry have only just logged on since Friday (busy weekend reached 60!) Now going back to the date on the will. The Ml CCCClxxxx was from the transcribed will where it says as in all wills 'in the year of our lord god .... being of whole mind etc. On the original obviously it looks nothing like that! (Like most of it unreadable), infact it looks like four capital P's followed by a h and four lower case p's. The Ml I really can't give any example of it's likeness in the will. The researcher has corresponded line endings with those of the original so I can follow the text. But she does say that one or two of the spellings seem particularly peculiar in this will, but as she says they are from a time before standardised spellings and they are as transcribed. She was very good and very helpful. The will seems to have been written on xviij day of October in the above year. It was proved in Norwich on 30 May 1503, presumably after he had died. I would love to put this up for you all to see, but I can't due to the copyright declaration I have had to sign. Unfortunately it seems to have thrown up more problems than it has solved! Gayla
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Hi,
Gayle - you are brilliant - we'll figure it out!
So far I've not had a chance today I got tied up dealing with council & forestry issues and as anyone knows dealing with authorities takes ages and ages......
Peter said he'd try and look at dates etc over the weekend so we'll also wait to see what he said.
Gayle - one thing - could the capital P's actually be a I ) - as in a stoke followed by a letter 'C' backwards?
Roman to arabic translations has that often written as 'D' and a C + stroke + back to front 'C' is often written as 'M'
was just hoping for a better date translation! (such luck)
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The theory so far (and it is only theory and my own opinion)
Dear All,
Today I have sat down wil pen and ink (yes how old fashioned) and drawn out 3 different trees.
The results are inconclusive apart from we know Robert was alive in 1503 and therefore is unlikely to be our link back from the Stonham Robert d 1498.
TREE ONE:-
Family tree de Blunvil - hand written pedigree file No 812
Sir William Blomville of Newton Flotman held NF in 1420 and died bf 1474
he married
Elizabeth Bosvile of Hemelhale alive in 1474
They had sons....
Richard b 1418 c 1503 (Brass at NF) m Katherine Inglosse of Loddon
Robert Blonvill (from whom the Baronet Blomefields decend)
William Blomvyle (living in 1503) from whom William Blomefield m Ann Cutting decended
-----------------
Richard b 1418 c 1503 (Brass at NF) m Katherine Inglosse of Loddon
They had sons
Ralph (Randolphus) Blonvill of NF & Gunton (Brass at NF) m Constance Gourney of West Barsham d 1539 decended from Edward III
Richard B
------------------
Ralph (Randolphus) Blonvill of NF & Gunton m Constance Gourney
They had sons
Edward Blondeville 1499-1567 (Brasss at NF) m Elizabeth Godslave & Barbara Drake
Comments on tree one = looks feasable and dates tie in with Engraving (brass) in church window made by Thomas to his father , grandfather and grt grandfather.
Robert Blonvill (from whom the Baronet Blomefields decend) would rule out this Robert as being our Stonham Robert as we arent decended from Baronets or called Blomefield.
cont.....
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TREE TWO:-
Yi's tree which should tie in with a few others on here.
Sir William Blomville of Newton Flotman b c1380 held NF from 1440 and died 1424-1499
he married 1408-1460
Elizabeth de Bosville b1391-1421 d 1424-1514
(dates from d'Blunvil pedigree on line)
aslo from visitations of norfolk 1563-1613 on line :-
Sir William Blundeville & Elizabeth, daughter of .... Boswell.
from Newton Hall Manor of the Blundervilles
and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq, c1380
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: Swainsthorpe Hall (settled on William Preston by fine)
They had sons....
Richard b 1405 d1490 (engraving) m Catherine Inglosse
Robert Blonvill
William Blomvyle (living in 1503) from whom William Blomefield m Ann Cutting decended
------------------
Richard b 1405 d1490 (engraving) m Catherine Inglosse
They had sons
Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Newton Hall. The Manor of Blundevilles.
Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs
Ralph b c1475 d 22.04.1514
from Pedigree of Gourney
Ralph married Constance Gurney
Ralph married Constance of the House of Gourney in Norfolk in 1498 he was married in West Barham(?) and inherited the Manor of Gurton from his brother Richard. Radulphus owned the Manor of Gurney, Constance eldest sister of Anthony Gurney marreid 1st Ralf Blundeville of Newton Flotman, gentleman, and 2nd William Bohem. The Blundevilles were possessed of Newton Flotham as early as the 3CI regin of King John and retained it many generations, there is a brass to this family of whom Ralph is one he died in 1514
Davys MSS
Radulphus Blomvil Esquire died 22.04 1515 he had a son Edward Blomvil who was his heir who died 1568 aged 75
Newton Hall. The Manor of Blundevilles.
* Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs
* succeeded by Ralph, c1470 his brother who died in 1514
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham : Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk (sold on his death to Edward Jernegan): Haveringland Manor: obtained Manor of Gurney from wife: obtained Hopton Manor
engraving
EV Book of Blomfield Pedigrees:-
in 1571 Thomas the last head of the family put up a memorial in the church of Newton Flotman to his father, grandgather and grt grandfather
Richard Blondeville ob 1490 aged 85
Radulphus ob 1514 aged 45
Edwardus ob 1568 aged 75
the arms impale those of Inglosse, Gurney, Godsalve, Johnson and Puttenham
Newton Hall, The Manor of the Blundevilles
in 1388, Rich. Blumvyle held it, and in 1420, Will. Blumvyle, Esq. who was succeeded by Ric. Blomevyle, Esq. and he by Catherine his wife, and she by Richard their son, who died in 1503; Ralph his brother succeeded, and died in 1514, whose son Edward was lord, and died in 1568; and in 1569, Thomas his son held a court baron and lete, and had purchased and joined to it three parts of
British History on line: Newton
The Manor of Blundeville's, or Newton-Hall,
Which had its name from its owners, and to which the mediety of the advowson of the church belonged; the first that I find of this name owner here, was Will. de Blundeville, Blomevyle, or Blunnel, who had it of the gift of Henry de Rhye, with Blomevyle's manor in Depham, (vol. ii. p. 491,) he left it to Richard his son, who was lord in 1226, being nephew to Tho. de Blumville Bishop of Norwich, (vol. iii. p. 483,) he was succeeded by William Blumvyle, and he by Katherine his widow; and William their son held it of the manor of Hingham, as of the barony of Rhye; and it was after held of the barony of Montchensy at a quarter of a fee; in 1388, Rich. Blumvyle held it, and in 1420, Will. Blumvyle, Esq. who was succeeded by Ric. Blomevyle, Esq. and he by Catherine his wife, and she by Richard their son, who died in 1503; Ralph his brother succeeded, and died in 1514, whose son Edward was lord, and died in 1568; and in 1569, Thomas his son held a court baron and lete, and had purchased and joined to it three parts of
So we can basically say TREE ONE & TREE TWO tie up and are probably both based on same source routes (I have put my source routes down in italics)
cont.....
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TREE THREE
from Will 1503 Richard Blonville
Eldest to youngest (inaccordance with inhertience rights in Will proved 1503)
Richard died bf 1503
William alive 1503
Nicholas died bf 1503 - "Nicholas 'having gone the way of all flesh as it appears'."
Robert alive 1503 (this discounts Robert Stonham d 1498 as being this one and therefore disproves any link to our branch from here)
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Richards sons
(to wife unknown but wife who outlived him and had possesion of Newton Flotman until she died "Raff also gets Newton but Richard's wife has it for the term of her life")
Raff - inherits Hepnall & then Newton on mothers death
Richard - Heverland
by the commnets below in the Will it appear that Raff is most certainly named as the elder brother
notes from Will Proved 1503
(not copied and can not be reproduced due to copyright)
Richard says his sons are Raff & Richard, his wife is alive and he has brothers William Nicholas & Robert.
Raff will inherit Hempnall and Newton but Richards widow stays out her life in Newton.
If Raff dies Richard gets it all.
William Nicholas and Robert are executors
It was proved at Norwich on 30 May 1503.
Robert and William were alive in 1503 but not Nicholas.
COMMENTS:-
Trees 1 and 2 are almost certainly from the same sourses as quoted in italics.
However tree 3 is taken from the Will and definitely says Raff is the eldest and direct inheritant.
Although there is much documented evidence from EV Bloomfield, Francis Bloomfield and the Manorial Records and Pedigree of Gourneys that Raff/Ralph suceeded his brother Richard the Will definitely says otherwise.
Regardless of documents a Will overides everything.
and we have to take this into consideration which could explain a lot - this comes from Yountug and HIS copy of the manorial records of Newton give a slightly differing story.....
The Manor of Blundeville's or Newton Hall
Which had it's name from it's owners.
William DeBlundeville. Bhmevyle or B/unne.
Who had it of the gift of Henry De Rhye with Blomevyles Manor in Depham.
Left it to;-
Richards son, who was Lord in 1226, being nephew to Thomas De Blumville, bishop of Norwich.
He [Richard] was succeded byWilliam Blumvyle,
And he by Katherine, his widow.
William,their son held it of the manor of Hingliam, as of the Barony of Rhye.
In 1388, Richard Blumvyh held it.
And in 1420 William Blumvyle, Esq, was succeded by Richard Blomevyle, Esq,
And he by Catherine, his wife. And she by
Richard their son, who died in 1514.
Whose son Edward was Lord and died in 1568.
And in 156? Thomas his son held a court Baron & Lete.[/color]
I think this is a misprint and should read Ralph as Ralph who had the son Edward.
and thereby this error has been copied down into all the italic documents I have quoted above -giving the impression that it was Richard who inherited.
So I think this now solves both matters and trees can be adjusted.
and we have no link to Stonham
Anyone got any other theories please punch holes in all of the above, doesnt bother me - its open for discussion, suggestions and amendments.
Have a good evening - Yi
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Thats splendid work by all concerned, now one just have to unravelled, I was always a bit leery about the family christian names not following through to the sons etc., so where does our John and Thomas come from Yi, as they were landed gentry..any ideas on who was the father of our 'Gilbert' as thats quite a positive name, I would have imagined his father or grandfather would be named definetely Gilbert/Gilbertus...will focus on this soon , just have other stuff in the pipeline....who knows where The trail will lead... that was good info from Youngtug!! thanks all 8)
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Hi Lady Grace,
As stated - it is theoretical only, but as you say Gilbertus Will 1415 born Stonham Jernegan and Gilbert born c1450 Stonham wife Elizabeth English - although we know from the Will 1415 this Gilbertus died as a cloth worker in Corn Hills, London - BUT we do know he had brothers John and William.
IF the name Blomvyle has come down the Newton Flotman line (coat of Arms seems to confirm this as they are the same) then yes - where does the name Gilbert come from?
Possibly a younger son named after the mothers father which was a common practice but who is this mysterious Gilbert, who is the mothers family?
I wish the records were more available from this time - if there are any that is!
We also have a Thomas Crowe who we seem to have inherited property from and who's name appears in many National Archive record next to Robert or Thomas Blomvyle from Stonham.
I have tried looking up house Genowes (the one inherited from T Crowe) but havent had any luck finding it.
Someday - maybe.......
:) Yi
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PS - which John & Thomas are you referring to?
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Hi everyone
Have been to Stonham Parva and visited the church. We took some photos inside and out of the memorials and the graves. The family are also mentioned in the leaflet . We also managed to find Clockhouse Farm after getting in touch with my daughter to look it up on a map on the internet! It runs on a straight road from the church. We didn't have any luck with Mowness and Four Elms. Mowness is on a private road . As for Four Elms we went up and down the road and just couldn't find a turning or building of any size likely to be it. We also had a look at Mendlesham visiting the church and walking around the village and Old Newton although not sure if this was Newton Flotman or not. I visited Ipswich records office and could find nothing new but have got a copy of a conveyance . They actually gave me the original to look at (I couldn't believe it!) I felt very nervous unfolding it but it was great holding it! I got a copy done,(I still had to sign that I wouldn't publish it, but that is ok). As with most of them it is is old English so I have sent it off with the Chancery Records to get it transcribed today by the same lady who did the will.
I will let you know if it throws up anything useful. Gayla
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Old Newton is a parish in Suffolk and Newton Flotman is in Norfolk ;)
Pat ...
www.slhc.org.uk/recorders.html
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Thank you Pat :) Didn't think it was as no mention of it ever being called anything else. But wasn't sure where Newton Flotman was! We came mostly for the record office, the Stonhams and a short break! We only came across it as we were driving through and decided to stop at the church. There are a few Bloomfields in the graveyard ( but most died in the last century) and one mentioned on the war memorial inside the church. There is also a book which has photos of the men who lost their lives in the 1st world war. They have also done a survey of the graveyard which is quite extensive and have left a folder which lists the names and in which area you will find their graves. WE have visited both Norfolk and Suffolk several times before over the years but have never been to this part before. Really enjoyed it. :) Gayla
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If you ever need to make contact, there is a good Local History Recorder in Old Newton.
Glad you enjoyed your visit - we have just been to Cornwall, which we enjoyed very much. Now home again to big blue skies and sunny days, I love being in Suffolk 8)
Hope to call in briefly at Bury St Edmunds branch of the SRO this week following hospital appointment - will be taking annual reports from Local History Recorders to place on open shelves on the first floor.
I seem to think we drive through Newton Flotman when driving to Norwich (which I admit I do not do very often).
Pat ...
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Pat I am very envious of you living there! Although I do like Cornwall as well.
Thank you for the information but I am following the same trail as Yi Win our grandfathers were brothers. So Old Newton doesn't really come into our line anywhere - We were just stopping and having a look at anywhere we came across in the area. My husband has always liked visiting interesting churches, I usually wander around the graveyard as I sometimes have a problem with some churches and just can't go through the door. Luckily no problems trip! Gail
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Oh Gail, lucky you guys living in the Uk. at least you have your finger on the pulse so to speak, I would dearly love to see some of the old and ancient family ancestral localities, to know that our ancestosr lived loved and died in certain regions....sigh LOL ::)lovely!
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Hi Lady Grace
It is a very lovely area with many very old houses and beautiful countryside. I have looked up on a website and there are quite a lot of listed buildings, like Mowness, in the Stonham area. Before we came home we stopped for lunch at a very old inn (12th Century) at Thornham Magna. It was quite a large inn but the ceilings were very low and my husband who is not that tall had to duck once or twice on the beams! It was a really beautiful place. But I think the fact that I could look at and hold the original convenyance document from I think 1496 was a thrill, I tought it would be a copy. As I said before we have visited Suffolk and Norfolk many times over the years (in fact I am going on holiday to Norfolk in the summer!) but I never knew before the end of last year that the Bloomfields originated from there. Gail
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Just as a matter of curiousity did anyone get back to 'Coops" he said he had a doco re Robert de Blomevile??
quote..I have a document tree starting with Robert de Blomevile (circa 1190) of Newton Flotman, Norfolk which leads on to include five generations of Williams Blomefield of Little Stonham (16th/17th century). It's thin on dates but the line of descent is clear enough.
Any use?
We seem to have hit a brickwall! :o
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Hi there, what a great thread! Probably the best i've found in Rootschat. ;D
I have some Blomfields who were from the Bedingham (Norfolk) area going back to 1705. Would it be likely that they would have come from the Newton Flotman branch?
I have found that both Benjamin Blomfield (b. 1744) and his father John (b. 1705) were freeholders in Bedingham, finding this from the Norfolk Poll books.
I imagine this branch stayed in the same area whilst others uprooted to Suffolk.
Regards Tom
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hi everyone
Just to let you know re: Robert Blomvyle married to Isabel (Ancestry trees chancery records). A Robert Blomvyle was married to an Isabel Cockerell but unfortunately nothing to say which Robert. So no further forward unfortunately. Have tried to find the cockerells at the NRO and National Archives but with no luck (plenty of Cockerells not not the ones we want). Only thing I have found out is that she was niece of Thomas Cockerell. Can find no links except the chancery records which I have had transcribed but it only names them both, so at the moment this is a dead end! Lady Grace you mentioned Coops having a document, I seem to have missed this post originally so I didn't get in touch. I must admit I do not know where to try next. Gayla
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Thanks for that Gayla, have got in touch with 'Coops' will wait and see if anything comes of that....I actually had replied to his message but I can't see we ever heard anything back ??? ??? if so I haver missed it too
so here goes again
I guess we have to explore all avenues now...:>)
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Pedigree of Blomfield by Sir Reginald Blomfield, I can send a copy of this to any who are following this line, Now first we have
Robert de Blomville( also Blondeville) living in 1190 NEWTON FLOTMAM-NORFOLK, , he evidently has 2 sons, nothing about any daughters
William Blomvile and Thomas de Blumville consecrated Bishop of Norwich died 1236 and nephew to Hugh de Burg
William's son was Richard de Blomville of Newton Flotman 1226
Richard son was John de Blonville 1249 of Newton Flotman
John's son was William Blumvile & Katherine( widow in 1317)
their son wasWilliam Blumvile 1334 of Newton Flotman
his son was Willam Blomvile=Katherine Flotman 1374 ( davey)
their son was Richard Blomvile held Newton Flotman 1388
his son Sir William Blomvyle =Elizabeth held Newton in 1420( Davey)
point I am making here these pedigrees only show the first born in each succession, I am sure there were more siblings in many of these families, which is making our work harder trying to trace our lineage back..I don't know where one could possibly find records of all children born to these families above???
p
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Just a hello and checkin re Blomfield/Bloomfield/Blomvyles etc., researchers, hope all are well :)and making some inroads into our past .....hmmmmm? ???
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Hello Everyone,
I've been meaning to join this site for months but life has managed to get in the way. Hello again Lady Grace.
Can anyone help me fill in the gaps on my Bl(o)omfield line please. I'm stuck at:
Thomas Bloomfield (or Blomfield)
b 1848 d 26 feb 1924
In Holton St Mary, Suffolk
Married to
Eliza Ann (Allen)
b 1844 d 15 Aug 1922
Children
George
Harry
William
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Hi Chris, hows things......a very quick look at my tree and I don't think thats one of my lot , maybe you can find out on Yi's genealogy website,?? will have a closer look later..cheers and goo :)d luck:>)
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I Have come across the 1841 census for Holton St Mary that lists
John Blomfield aged 20
Hannah Blomfield
Then further down the page
James Blomfield Age 20
Would i be barking up the wrong tree if i proposed a rather tenuous link as to one of these being a parent of Thomas Blo(o)mfield?
Help ! im stuck........
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Hopefully Chris one of the clever kind people who do lookups on here will see your plea for help, they really get onto things once they get their teeth into it, here's hoping for you :)its a really fascinating journey sorting out all these ancestors, its taken me years and years with an enormous 8) amount of help which was most welcome...cheers :)
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:) Hello everyone
Just keeping in touch. We all seem to have come to a full stop :(. Have continued to search but have nothing new. The only thing I have found is a will for John Blomvyle of Stonham Parva for 1480. I am awaiting a reply from Yi Win before I ask for it to be transcribed, but apart from that I can find nothing to help us move forward (or should that be backward!) I would be pleased to hear if anyone has anything new, it really is frustrating!
Gayla
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Hi, still looking but nothing good yet.
This may be interesting sometime, https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Medieval_Families_Unit
and here is a Ranulph, [nearly at the bottom of the page] http://www.geni.com/projects/Anglo-Norman-families-Earls-of-Chester
My apologies if these have been discussed before. John.
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Thanks John for the links..lol we seem to have ground to a shuddering halt at this point in time ...but shall sally on regardless...:>)
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A snippet http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationsofsuf00harvuoft#page/156/mode/2up
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In case it is of any help, my grandfather, Frank Henry Bloomfield b. 1901, worked with his cousin the Rev. Harry Bloomfield, to follow the Bloomfield family tree back to Sir William De Blomvyle c. 1222.
I understand there was a problem taking it back as far as Normandy to discover the very roots of Richard De Blonville; the French Authorities were apparently uncooperative.
I believe my mother, Barbara Bloomfield, may have a copy of the tree laying around, whilst the original will shortly be hanging on my wall. If any of you might wish to see a copy, I will see if I can arrange to have one sent to you... or you could always drop by to visit me in Suffolk... and bring a magnifying glass!
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Welcome to rootschat. I would be very interested, as I am sure several others on here would be. To be able to send you my email address or other or for you to do the same via the PM system you need to make 2 more posts [anything will do]. John.
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One.
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Two. An error message told me to leave a delay between the postings...
Has this done the trick?
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Hello Brooker 62 :)
Like young tug I would also be very interested in seeing a copy of your family tree. We have come to a grinding halt and do not know where to go next.
My line is the same as Yi Win's our grandfather's were brothers, so i'm sure she would also be very interested. Look forward to hearing from you again Gayla
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Hello young tug and Galya,
It took Frank and Harry many years to get this far and thought they are long gone, I think it would be a good thing to share what they gathered. After all, it could save you a lot of frustration if they already found connections you have been looking for. I will ask my mother if she can get a copy of the tree posted up to me, one I can send out. The master copy is framed. Do either of you live in Suffolk, at all?
Give me a little time to find out re the copy and I will re-post asap.
Best, Trevor
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I am in Wiltshire I'm afraid.
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Not to worry, if my mother can find some (rather large) copies of the tree, I could post you one if you'd like.
My uncle, Peter Bloomfield, has following in the footsteps of his father Frank, been delving into this for many years also. I would hope to inform him of any new connections as things develop so he could talk about research and the vast database of knowledge he has stored in his head! Perhaps he might take up communication with you at some stage?
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Not to worry, if my mother can find some (rather large) copies of the tree, I could post you one if you'd like.
My uncle, Peter Bloomfield, has following in the footsteps of his father Frank, been delving into this for many years also. I would hope to inform him of any new connections as things develop so he could talk about research and the vast database of knowledge he has stored in his head! Perhaps he might take up communication with you at some stage?
Will PM my Email address, although Yi Win has more knowledge and information.
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I am certain we can sort things out. I'll let you know what my mother finds and when I can lay my hands on it.
You will not be surprised to know most of the roots are in East Anglia. In fact, when I take my motorcycle for a service in Newton Flotman, there is a large plaque beside the altar in the church next door, placed there by the Blundervilles, I think. All part of the same line.
I also traced a chap who lives in a large house on lands thought to comprise the old family estate, going back a good few centuries. It's fascinating.
Best, Trevor
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Hi Trevor
I would like to register an interest too: my line of Blomfields is the same one as Young Tug's. I live in Wales but come originally from Suffolk, and with any luck might be going over to visit family in the Hadleigh area in the summer. However, in the meantime I will PM you with my email address.
Regards
GS
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Hi Greensleeves,
Thank you for your message, I'll be happy to help where I can. I only found this site when I did a search for Hubert De Monte Caniso, to whom Richard De Blonvill was a sub-tenant, before I started work this morning. I only did the search because I have just moved and have the framed tree off to my right. Why not? I thought. What a coincidence it turned out to be. I'll be certain to keep you in the loop, I don't think it will be long before I have to bring my uncle into the discussion, at this rate... which is a very good thing.
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Now there's a coincidence, because I found this site a few years ago when I googled Blomfield and Woolpit and found that there was a thread running which combined the two. Not sure what happened to that thread now though - it was a few years ago - but it was a nice introduction to this brilliant site!
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just saw this thread active again.. wow we have movement..great.... count me in... kind regards to all from New Zealand :>)
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.....and please count me in also!!! Like everyone else, I find the lack of leads and info around the 11th Century frustrating. Although researching some of the wives around that time is quite interesting.
Chris B
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just saw this thread active again.. wow we have movement..great.... count me in... kind regards to all from New Zealand :>)
Hello Lady Grace,
I know there to be a large group of Bloomfields in New Zealand, some of whomare/ were directly related to my grandfather. I seem to remember them being based around Whangarei and related to Robert, the Poet. IS that correct? Are you from amongst the same group? How interesting!
I will post the number of copies of the family tree my mother eventually finds in her store cupboards.
Best regards...
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Hi,
Sorry guys I have been ill with flu followed by various complications since end March and for some reason my email alerts arent working on here so double bummer!
Yes I'd be interested in Brookers tree - having spent many years with many of you on this thread tracing the Stonham Blomfields back to 1450 & several people before that but can prove no relation.
I also have the de Casino link (somewhere) and that Robert was a sub leut of whoever - sorry my brain really is not in gear with names and locations at the minute.
The only link the Stonham (Four Elms branch) line has to the Newton Flotham line at the minute is an intermarrriage into the NF line which is where we can trace back further.
The Stonham line stops with Gilbert Blomvyle and Elizabeth English with Gilbert's father being Robert - before that we have some names in Stonham of Blomvyles but not linked yet.
Is your line Brooker Stonham in origin or Newton Flotman?
Either way anything to back up what we have to confirm it back to William 1222 would be great.
I have the tree on gedcom and can copy it to anyone who PM's me with an email address.
My current location is Cumbria.
A visit to Suffolk is not impossible.
love to you all
Yi Win
Amanda
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This is the earliest record I have - take in with large doses of salt please
RB Book of Blomfield Pedigrees
calls Ralph "Robert 1190"
de Blunvil pedigree
* De Blunvil B.1015-1114. M. 1039-1145. D.1050-1187 ---->
William De Blunvill B.1050-1144 @ Coln, Essex,uk. M.est.1075-1175 dateB. 1091. D.1172. - --->
Ralph De Blunvill B.1086-1174 or 1122. M. 1110-1205.
D. 1121-1248 or1199. ---->
Wiliam De Blunvill B.1121-1204. M. Margery abt.1147-1235 B.1126-1207. D.1157-1285. he died.1157-1290 ---->
There is probably a Thomas from this marriage.
Richard De Blomvyle B.1157-1233. M.1183-1265. D.1194-1309. M. Amica De Stutville B.1162-1236. D.1193-1315.
Ralph de Blunvil was nephew and heir to Richard de Blunvil & suceeded to land in Colne before 1198. In 1279 Colne was in the hands of the Engaine family to 1367
his wife may have been a de Burgh
William d'Blunvil of the Newton Flotman
RB Blomfield Book of Blomfield Pedigrees says
William is a son of Robert (Ralph) 1190 with a brother Thomas and son Richard held Newton Flotman in 1226
Sir William de Blunvil born Newton Flotham died 1222
Constable of Corfe Castle 1203-1205
William de Blunvil in 1201 is in Serdeleshey, Little Colne with Richard de Engaine who died d1209
Richard is son of Ricahrd Engaine 1177
son of Richard Engaine 1130 who is at Colne Engaine
son of Richard Engaine who died in England and came over with William conqueror
Owned Woodcroft Hall (Blomville Manor), Monk Soham (inherited through wife)
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from rev Francis Blomefield
Manor of Blundeville or Newton Hall at Newton Flotman in Norfolk
William de Blundeville, Blomvyle or Blunnel, who had it oft the gift of henry de Rye, he left it to Richard his son who was Lord in 1226, being nephew to thomas de Blunvil, Bishop of Norfolk, in 1388 Richard Blumville held it and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq and he was suceeded by catherine his wife and she by richard thier son who died in 1503.
Newton Hall. The manor of Blundevilles.
* William de Blundeville c1121
Held: Serdeleshey, Little Colne: (gifted) Blundeville Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomevile's Manor, Deopham, Manor of Blomviles (Woodcroft Hall) and Monk Soham (from wife)
* Richard c1160 [son] lord in 1226.
[nephew of Thomas Blumville, bishop of Norwich
Held: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman & Blomevile's Manor, Deopham
* John c1200
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotmam, Blomvile's Manor Deopham, Aquired Chesfield 1248-55
* William Blumvyle c1274 succeeded by his widow Katherine
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotmam, Blomvile's Manor Deopham
* William c1266 (inherited on death of Elder brother Nicholas)
Held: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman, Blomville's Manor, Deopham: inherited from mother - Manors Brome & Blonorton in Norfolk
* Richard c 1300
Held: Rector Newton Flotman: Blundeville's Manor Newton Flotman & Blomevile's Manor, Deopham - died no heirs, nephew inherited
* in 1388 Richard Blumvyle c 1343 held the manor
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham - died no heirs, nephew inherited
* and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq, c1380
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: Swainsthorpe Hall (settled on William Preston by fine)
* Richard Blomevyle esq, c1404
suceeded by Catherine his wife
Held: Lived Ashby Manor: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: obtained Manors of Ashby & Gunton, Norfolk from wife: Hempnall Manor by Advowson
* Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs
* succeeded by Ralph, c1470 his brother who died in 1514
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham : Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk (sold on his death to Edward Jernegan): Haveringland Manor: obtained Manor of Gurney from wife: obtained Hopton Manor
* Edward, c 1495 his son. died in 1568
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Haveringland Manor (sold by Edward in 1546): Hopton Manor
* Thomas, his son, c1522 held a court baron & lete in 1569
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman
(sold on his death by his daughters who were co-heiresses)
The Longs possessed the Manor until 1937 - it appears the Manor is now flats
also Blomvile's Manor, Deopham
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Blomefield's History of Norfolk' published in 1805 :-
BLOMEVILE’S MANOR
Was in two parts, the first contained the third part of Henry de Rhie's manor, and the third part of the advowson, which the said Henry gave to William de Blundevile, or Blomevile, whose son Richard gave his third of the advowson, in 1226, to the monks of Canterbury, and Tho. de Blundevile or Blomevile, uncle (as I take it) to Richard, confirmed this donation ; this William, brother to the Bishop, was of Newton Flotman, where the family continued many ages ; the said William held it at quarter of a fee of Hingham : the other part belonged to the Wacheshams ; and in 1227, was conveyed by Giles de Wachesham to Alan de Creping, who was to hold it at half a fee of the said Giles and his heirs, who held it at Hockering, as parcel of the barony of Rye ; in 1272, Hugh de Creping held it of Giles, son of Giles de Wachesham, as of his manor of Wortham in Suffolk ; in 1249, John de Blomevile had the Blomeviles part ; and in 1260, Will. De Blomevile was lord, to whom Hugh de Creping conveyed his half fee, which ever after retained his name ; in 1282, William de Blundevile held it of Gerard de Wachesham, and he of Giles Plais ; in 1302, Roger Cosyn had it, either as guardian or trustee to the heirs of Will. De Blomevile ; 1320, Will. De Blomevile settled it on Margaret his wife ; in 1345 Ralf Bokyng held it in right of his wife, it being her dower, of the inheritance of Will. Blomevile. In 1401, Rich. Blomevile had it ; in 1489, Rich. Blundevile was lord, who died about 1503 ; it was afterwards sold in reversion to Roger Woodhouse, Esq. for in 1572, Henry Richers, Esq. was lord, during his wife's life, who, it seems, died in or about 1578, for then Roger occurs lord, from which time it hath gone in that family, Sir John Woodlhouse, Bart. being now [1739] lord.
Wakes Coln on Line
Part of the Little Colne estate held of Robert Malet by Walter of Caen in 1086 (fn. 76) extended into Wakes Colne where it formed the freehold or submanor of Serdeleshey or LOVENEY HALL. It was held of Colne Engaine manor until 1556 or later. (fn. 77) By the later 12th century William de Cheney or his successors had enfeoffed Richard Blunville, whose great nephew William Blunville disputed the estate with Richard Engaine between 1199 and 1201. (fn. 78) Another William Blunville held c. 1278. (fn. 79) By c. 1380 the estate was called Loveney Hall, pre- sumably from an owner; c. 1440 it belonged to a Culpepper. (fn. 80) About 1503 Roger Draper sold 'Loveney Hall and Sherdelous' to Edward Sulyard, (fn. 81) and in 1546 Edward's son Eustace conveyed the estate, then called a manor, to William Sidey. Sidey at once sold part of the estate, later Great Loveney Hall, to John Newton, (fn. 82) and the rest to John Sidey. John Sidey devised the manor to his son, another John, who sold it in 1574 to John Ball (d. 1602) and his son John (d. 1621). (fn. 83) They were succeeded by another John Sidey, whose widow held in 1646 with her second husband Thomas Harlakenden. (fn. 84) The estate, still called a manor in 1698 and 1711, was called Little Loveney Hall by 1730. (fn. 85) It belonged to Osgood Hanbury (d. 1784) in 1768, and presumably descended with Inglesthorpes manor in White Colne to O. B. Hanbury (d. 1890). (fn. 86) It was farmed by H. C. Crook in 1902, (fn. 87) and belonged to his family in 1996. (fn. 88)
Little Loveney Hall lies close to the edge of a large, waterfilled moat. The house has a threeroomed plan with lobby entry, of the late 16th or early 17th century. A large service wing was added to the east in the 18th century.
De Blunvil name:-
The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William de Blunwill, which was dated 1207, the Hundred Rolls of Suffolk, during the reign of King John, known as "Lackland", 1199 - 1216
British History on Line:-
The Manor of Blundeville's, or Newton-Hall,
Which had its name from its owners, and to which the mediety of the advowson of the church belonged; the first that I find of this name owner here, was Will. de Blundeville, Blomevyle, or Blunnel, who had it of the gift of Henry de Rhye, with Blomevyle's manor in Depham, (vol. ii. p. 491,) he left it to Richard his son, who was lord in 1226, being nephew to Tho. de Blumville Bishop of Norwich, (vol. iii. p. 483,) he was succeeded by William Blumvyle, and he by Katherine his widow; and William their son held it of the manor of Hingham, as of the barony of Rhye; and it was after held of the barony of Montchensy at a quarter of a fee; in 1388, Rich. Blumvyle held it, and in 1420, Will. Blumvyle, Esq. who was succeeded by Ric. Blomevyle, Esq. and he by Catherine his wife, and she by Richard their son, who died in 1503; Ralph his brother succeeded, and died in 1514, whose son Edward was lord, and died in 1568; and in 1569, Thomas his son held a court baron and lete, and had purchased and joined to it three parts of
William de BLUNVILL died after 1146.
Took his name from the fief of Blunvill, near Havre in Normandy.
William was gifted the Manor of Newton Flotman in Norfolk by Hubert de Rye.
Witnessed land grant of William fitz Robert de Boseville to the Priory of Castleacre at Kempston, Norfolk, in the time of Henry I (1100-1131).
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Hi there,
Let me have a look at the tree and see what I can find... Okay, Richard De Blonvill who I assume lived in Normandy at or around 1066 was actually a sub tenant to Hubert De Monte Caniso, as opposed to Casino. The branch appears to have been first, identifiably... from my prespective, represented in Newton Flotman from around 1170, by Robert De Blondeville or Blomeville. My uncle knows all, he doesn't have a computer so I will have to ask everyone interested forr contact details so he can eventually make contact.
Anyway, the tree gets very interesting from there.
My mother has just told me she apparently has 4 spare copies of the family tree. I made these very large copies a couple of years ago and gave them all to her. When I receive them I will purchase a tube and ask how much the postage will cost; I can then let you know what I will need to cover the costs, if that's okay with you? I realise there are a few of you interested in landing a copy and will see what I can do ensure that you are furnished with one.
Regards,
Trevor (Brooker)
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What a fabulously detailed post! I have forwarded this information to my mother, so she can print it and send it to her brother in case he doesn't already have it.
Thank you!
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Hi Trevor,
I have loads more stuff - do you use a Family Tree Maker or Legacy programme?
All info's on there though I do have a very hard to read print off of a bit of it that someone else gave me.
I keep trying to figure a way of printing the tree off - if anyone knows HOW from a Gedcom using Family Tree Maker to get it all on paper looking like a tree please let me know!
Amanda Yi Win
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Hi Amanda,
My grandfather and his cousin started the research back in the mid-60's, just after his retirement. They spent many years visiting churches including Stonham Parva and possibly Newton Flotman, Somerset House and other places. They wrote myriad letters and simply had to wait for the retulst to arrive before they could write anything down. I'm afraid my uncle doesn't possess a computer, so communication is still done by telephone and hand written letter.
Things have changed so much in a relatively short time, no?
Trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Yes things have changed and when it comes to computers I am still on a steep learning curve!
Yi
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Brooker62
Hello there, my branch is through Henry Blomfield & Elizabeth UK his son Nevill & Grace Blomfield UK & NZ, his son Cecil Blomfield NZ, myself Grace Blomfield daughter NZ... Amanda and I have done some pretty indepth research and I am indebted to her for a lot of info..we appear to be stuck between UK and France..to make that vital connection..I have a website re Blomfields Blondeville etc., been online for 12 or more years.....and still onwards....cheer L Grace
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Actually Trevor/Brooker62 , looking through the NZ Blomfield Family Pedigree Charts....I can see your NZ line, JohnnyUK and myself were busy putting the bits together on the last chart,a while ago now but I could send you the latest Blomfield pedigree if you don't have it...Johnnys been busy, so it a bit behind now what with ggrandchildren arriving at a steady pace lol
cheers Grace
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Hello Grace,
It's good to hear from you again and I am certain my uncle would be very pleased with as much information from NZ as you could provide. I wouls be fascinated by how much unclue Peter might learn from the Blomfield Blondeville web site, too.
As for the French Connection, they got back as far as Richard De Blonvill who was the aforementioned sub tenant to Hubert De Monte Caniso, in Blonville, Normandy, around 1086. My memory - which could well be wrong here - tells me that when they requested assistance from authorities in France to identify the upline from thee, they were stopped. Again, my memory tells me the French didn't seem very keen to help some Rosbifs trace their lineage back over there... but I could be wrong. A month in Normandy might help, but I donlt think they got that far, literally.
Best, Trevor
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Hi Lady Grace,
I too would be interested in a copy of the pedigree you have please.
AND I noticed your 'new' crest picture - where did you get it done?
I've been trying in UK to get one done but the places I've contacted have only the standard Blomville (German origin) crest and unless I get the art work done myself and then present it to them I am struggling to find anyone who will take the description or picutre I have and 'make it up' for me.
I really want the crest and in a similar fashion to the one you've shown. It'll knock the mother-in-law for 6 if nothing else! ;) ;D
If anyone's interested I do have a hand written copy done in 1979 of the Blo(o)mfield pedigree - it seems mostly correct - I got it from a lady in USA who's relative had done it. It is of the Newton Flotman line not the Four Elms Pedigree. Stonham but I am willing to copy and pass around if anyone PM's me thier address.
I can also forward a Gedcom of the tree we have all on here put together - it does include my other side and I dont know how to split to to just Blo(o)mfield but I anyone is welcome to a copy - I can email that as a file but you'd need a programme such as Family Tree Maker or Legacy to run it from.
love Amanda (Yi Win)
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Hi Amanda,
Sorry for dipping in to your conversation with Grace. I'm checking with my mother but I seem to remember there being a similar crest on the wall at my grandparents' house when I was young... which is some time ago now. If this should prove to be correct I could have it photographed and email a copy to you. There might even be the name of the maker on the back... we shall see, I hope I am correct.
Regards, Trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Never worry about dipping into a conversation on this thread - its the best way to share all the info we have.
A copy would be very nice - all I have is the little piccy to the left courtesy of grace to go on if I do do anything - which of course i'd love to :) :)
Therre used to be a coat of arms on the front of the property we live in but when it was sold the owners took it with them - there's a nice space left.......
Amanda
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Amanda, I think I sent you the latest Blomfield pedigree update it was for 2010.and a larger copy of the Blomfield coat of arms as well?...but can send again if you require it..re the newer coat of arms..hmmm someone sent it to me....aha yes I'll have to try to remember where it is on my three computers lol..its very very nice I must agree...he's had it carved onto a wooden shield by the look of it....a simply super job.........hey nice to see you again:>)
ps I have your email so shall check what I sent you.....and rectify :>)
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I am certain we can sort things out. I'll let you know what my mother finds and when I can lay my hands on it.
You will not be surprised to know most of the roots are in East Anglia. In fact, when I take my motorcycle for a service in Newton Flotman, there is a large plaque beside the altar in the church next door, placed there by the Blundervilles, I think. All part of the same line.
I also traced a chap who lives in a large house on lands thought to comprise the old family estate, going back a good few centuries. It's fascinating.
Best, Trevor
trevor..I would be very interested in any photos of any Blomfield/Blomvyle estate/buildings/whatever for my/our Blomfield Family WW Website..another UK cousin Richard (Dick) thought he had it sussed for me..that was an Blomvyle Hall estate in, Woodbridge Easton Suffolk..... we had someone who actually was going to ask to take photos but that fell through..drat! at some time this estate must have been in the hands/ belonged to a branch of the Blomvyle Family=hence the name...interesting indeed..
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Hi Lady Grace,
Yes I have the 2010 tree and added it to the big one I have but the picture would have been on my old computer and that unofortuantely went 'poof' - I could try and retrieve it but if you have a copy that would be great. (and easier)
I can then print it out and take it to somewhere who will put it on a plaque like yours but the catch is most of them like to work with the artwork they have already and not one persons specifics and this Blomvyle Coat of Arms is not on the regular list.
:) Yi
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Hi Amanda,
For you and anyone interested, I have posted a photo of the family crest on my profile - I hope you can see it clearly. I can email a copy if requested.
As I wrote to Grace yesterday, my uncle does not feel able to engage because of logistical issues and prior commitments, but I hope this image will go some way to providing some guidance regarding the appearance of the family crest. I shall also endeavour to discover where it was made.
Hard copies of my mother's side of the family tree should arrive here in a week or so, for those of you which have demonstrated ome interest in getting your hands one.
Regards, Trevor (Brooker)
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Hi,
Please email a copy - between yours and Grace's I should be able to present something to someone to make up - IF I can find that someone who isnt just concerned about taking an already made crest from their records and reproducing it and makes them up to order!
and if anyone out here knows of a company who makes crest up as per drawings/pictures I'd be very grateful.
this is the one most places want to reproduce for you ...
http://www.houseofnames.com/bloomfield-coat-of-arms
which isnt ours - when you get into specifics of 'can you.....' they cant as they do not already have it on thier machines!
ce la vie.
I detract from the subject of tracing the line here - sorry!
Yi
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Hi Yi,
I just heard that the shield was made by the flollowing company, between 30 and 40 years ago:
8 Fleet st 2 Co. Dublin
D2 Dublin 2 (Dublin city)
Tel: +353 (01) 6777034
I'll email a copy to you and Grace for the use of...
All the best, Trevor
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Greetings Bloomfielders!
As some of you are aware we took the big leap of moving from the west of the county back home to Fram a couple of months back - which means of course that I now live exceedingly close to Easton.
If you would like to PM details of what you need done in Easton I will see if I can do it for you.
Of course the way things are at the moment I may have to canoe there ::)
Pat ...
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Hi,
As we were talking about Heraldry & Coats of Arms. I found this....
Henry is the son of Thomas who is the son of Gilbert in Stonham
He appears to have a completly different Coat of Arms to the Newton Flotman and the Stonham Branches
The Rectory Fersfield:-
HISTORY OF NORFOLK, Francis Bloomfield
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Norfolk/Volume_1/Diss
Another black marble is thus inscribed:
Here Lie Buried In This Grave John Blomefield, Gent.
Sometime Of Corpus Christi Coll: In Camer:
All these following inscriptions on stones, between the north and south door; the three first in the nave, and the three last in the south isle:
Alice, Daughter Of Henry Blomefield, Gent. & Alice His Wife, Died Nov. 23, 1712.
Here Lieth The Boddy Of Mr. John Blomefield, The Son Of Mr. John Blomefield, Eliz. His Wife, Who Deceased Satarday June I, 1695.
Blomefield's arms and crest.
Repositæ sunt sub hoc Lapide in spe beatæ Resurrectionis, Reliquiæ Elizabethæ filiæ natu maximæ, Johannis Blomefield, hujus Paroch: de Fersfield Genr: et Eliz: ux: ejus (ambo juxta hunc locum
Alice wife of Henry Blomefield, Gent. Died 17 March. 1729 Aged 52 Years.
Henry Blomefield Gent. died June the 1st 1732, Aged 52 Years.
Against the south wall, to which the grave of the said Henry joins, is a mural monument of white marble, having the crest, arms, and quarterings of Blomefield, viz.
Blomefield, sab. on a chevron or, three broom branches vert, budded gul.; on a canton of the second, a spear sab. embrued, broken in the truncheon.
Crest, a demi-tiger az. the mane and tail arg. holding in his paws a sword proper, broken in the blade. Motto—pro aris et focis.
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The above mentioned Coat of Arms seems significantly more complicated that the other 2 we have (on view next to Lady Grace and Brooker).
This site...
http://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm
is useful for translating the description to pictorial
Yi
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Hi,
We also have this...
1st entry in Little Stonham is in the deeds of 1489 spelt Blomvyle
ARMS:-
Arms of BLOMFIELD : Quarterly, Per fesse indented Argent and Azure,
a bend Gules.
Coat of Arms:-
Blomevile or Blundevile- Said to bear : Quarterly per fess
indented or and az , a bend gu
Blomeville. See Blumville,
Blondeviile, of Newton Flotman, Quarterly per fess indented
or and az,, a bendlet gu.
Blumville, Bishop Thomas de, died 1236. Said to bear: Quarterly,
per fess indented or and az., a bend arg. [?].
(note he has colour silver (argent) and the others have gule (red)
Same coat as Blondeviile.
Blundeville, Robert de. Quarterly, per fess indented or and az.,
over all a bendlet gu.
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and .....
(I think this may be compliments of Lady Grace's research)
LC Siers
Tanners Manuscripts contain six pedigrees of the family, all bearing the same Arms, which were: Quarterly, per fess, indented Agrent and Azure, a Bend, Gules.
Crest: A lozenge, gules, between two wings erect, sometimes without the lozenge.
It is interesting to note that these Arms and Crest are derived from the Barony of Rye, Normandy, and that such Barony owned the Manor of Newton Flotman, from which a fair presumption may be formed of the connection and origin of the original settlers in Norfolk with Blomville.
The heads of the existing Blomfields seem to have settled at' Stonham Parva and Stonham Aspall, Suffolk.
At any rate, they are specifically referred to in the six pedigrees above mentioned, recorded in the Heralds Visitations of 1664.
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well what d'ya'guess...
here is a description of the Blonville-sur-mer Coat of Arms
Coat of arms of Blonville-sur-mer (Calvados)
Blazon: Azure on a bend gules between in chief a seven pointed star argent and in base three bezants, a lion passant gardant bendwise or.
follow this link....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COA_fr_Blonville-sur-mer.svg
does it JUST happen to look familiar to ?
Blomvyle Stonham - Quarterly, per fess, indented Agrent and Azure, a Bend, Gules.
When you QUARTER a coat of arms - it usually means the other coloured quarters are from the FEMALE side and a part of HER Coat of Arms.
This would explain the 'or' of the Newton Flotman (from a female marriage and her families Arms colours) and the 'argent' of the Stonham denoting their female marriage's Coat of Arms colours
(see William Prince of Wales has added the Spencer 'red' on HIS Coat of Arms in memory of his mother Diana)
So this explains the quartering and the 2 variations of the Coats of Arms between branches.
If you NOW take out the female quarters you are left with the basic Blonville-sur-mer coat of Arms!
;) ;D ???
Yi
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Well I'll be... This is extremely interesting and I think you've got something there. The colours on the crest seem reminiscent of those in my mother's tree but as you say, there will be elements from each side of a marriage, tying them together. You could study this for 20 years more and still be learning at the end of that time!
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Thanks for the copy of your family tree Trevor.
For those of you who've been asking:-
Trevor is of the Newton Flotman line of Blomfields and is decended from one Isaac William Bloomfield b1761 who married Elizabeth Tilner.
For those of you who have copies of my tree which would include both the Stonham and Newton Flotman lines Isaac is on the re for you to look it up.
However this tree stops with Isaac's son Joseph which is where treovr is from.
Our tree now expands into another depth.
:-) thanks Trevor
Oh and just to let you know the company Fluer de lis Designs will draw up the graphics for the Stonham Coat of Arms - I will sort that out over the next couple of weeks.
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Thanks Yi Win,
You are most welcome! I hope you and the others who get to see this lovely piece of work will enjoy reading it and that it might shed more light on previously unknown connections.
I look forward to reading more of your thoughts regarding the tree and the crest.
All the best, Trevor
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WOW - Trevor - its a gold mine of info!
I've nothing on my tree from Isaac 1761 doenwards on that branch (thats your's)
and nothing from his cousin Edward Bloomfield 1739 of Trostan & Coney Weston
absolutely facinating seeing another branch open up so much
collating it all onto one tree at the moment - wouldnt it be just ace if I could print it off as one big tree.
(will ask my cousin)
Open to suggestions if anyone knows about Family Tree Maker programmes which is what I'm running it on.
;D
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That is so good to hear!
All this because I one day took a look to my right, saw the tree sat on my floor waiting to be hung, and performed a Google search for one of the men listed on the paper.
Though not a Blo(o)mfield, I am proud to have been able to inject a new source of information into the pool of geanological research being carried out by those who are!
My mother and uncle will be so pleased, too. If you do get to the stage where an amalgamated print version becomes available, I would be happy to buy a copy or two of that one from you! They would make interesting gifts.
Enjoy!!
All the best, Trevor
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hello everyone :)
Yes thank you from me too for the tree Trevor. It looks very interesting, weren't there/aren't there a lot of us! If only we could find the missing link for the Stonham branch! Gayla
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Yes that missing link is so annoying - we link in to the Newton line by marriage so both lines are on my tree.
Once I've updated the tree and made sure it IS all the same with Trevors I will look into the Family tree maker tools and see if it is possible to print it off in tree form on lots of A4 sheets - I know you can print off a pedgiree file in a document detailing in each generation on each page but an actual tree of it all printed off would be great.
It would also be HUGE!!!!!
The person who wrote out Trevors was so clever - I'll never understand how he managed to get it all on so neatly!
I can send out new gedcom files to everyone once I've added bits.
Trevor - I have to laugh at this but your lines just as in bred as the Stonham one LOL! cousins marrying cousins!! Talk about keep it in the family - bet its all about property and land!
;D
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Hi
Are your Blo(o)mfields any connection to the family from Tattingstone who married into the Tracey family, also from Tattingstone.
Les
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Hi
Sorry been on hols
Not sure re link
What info do you have and how far back have you got
We can then do some digging in our tree for you
Location doesn't sound familiar to me but there are a few branches linked
In together so it may be on a related branch that I am not familiar with
But will look next week when home
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Got back to Stephen Blomfield born about 1701. He died in Melton in 1763 and he married Jane Blagdon in 1732. These dates are approximate. I've come across a place called Debach for the family as well.
Stephen is my 6Xgrandfather. His son was Stephen born 1733, then his son was also Stephen born 1760 and his son was John born 1790, he married Hannah Emmerson, their daughter Sarah married William Tracey in 1840 in Tattingstone.
Les
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Hi,
i will have a look this week
;)
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hi,
i've run a location search on both the place names tattingstone and debach and havn't come up with anything on the tree I have.
however i've a family Branch in Melton that consists of 4 brothers around the correct time for your stephen to be one of their kids.
unfortunately i only have the offspring of one of these brothers but his kids are the right birth dates of your Stephen so he could be a son of one of the others.
the branch is isaac blomfield and catherine levington c1652
they had sons isaac, william, john and thoms and it is isaacs children i have but not the others.
Could be a starting point for you.
Do you use family search / IGI?
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Long shot but I don't suppose you have any Blomfields in Playford or surrounding area do you ?
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Hi,
I will have a look and get back to you but it will probably be early next week - sorry!
(seems my cousins are being very quiet this week LOL!! ;D)
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PS - what's 'the surrounding area' any names of towns or people and dates?
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Oh - just for the rest of you Stonham lot I'm using Fleur-de-lis Designs to get the crest/coat of arms drawn up - will let you know how it goes.
Yi
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IGI has this for Lesden's Stephen & Jane...
Stephen Bloomfield Pedigree
Male Family
Event(s):
Birth:
About 1701 Of, Dallinghoo, Suffolk, England
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
17 SEP 1763 Dallinghoo, Suffolk, England
Marriages:
Spouse: Mrs. Jane Bloomfield
Would suggest getting copies of the parish records if you've not already.
Yi
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Thanks for that, I have been on the IGI, even in my family the spelling has been different. I've found Bloomfield, Blomfield and Blumfield, very confusing.
Les
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PS - what's 'the surrounding area' any names of towns or people and dates?
Rushmere St Andrew and Playford. I am stuck at John Blomfield born in Playford in 1760 to a Daniel and Hannah but can't find where either Daniel or Hannah came from.
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Hi,
I'm sorry I dont have any Hannah & Daniel, son John on the tree I have or any Blomfields in Playford.
Have you tried the Playford Parish Records - I you are lucky you may be able to buy them in a CD format on line for maybe under £10.
I have to purchase quite a few parish records CD's to make links to go back further.
Sometimes it is the only way to then link into someone elses tree.
Yi
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Hi Lesden and Alan b,
This is a link to the tree....
http://amandahan.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=amandahan&mmg=8327991441&switch=0&rand=433788129
password "storm" for access.
Its for anyone to look at - can't guarantee all info is 100% as not all is mine or my cousins on here but we do our best.
The name changes due to the phonetic spelling of the people taking the census records or of the varients in how each priest spelt it - one vicar may spell it Blomfield and the next one to come along will enter it in the parish records as Blumfield - no one could spell in those days!
Hence they move parish and the vicar also spells it different to the last parish they lived in.
Hope that helps
Yi
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Just checking in to say hello all, :) how did you get on with your coat of arms Amanda? do tell....I had forgotten my password on here, had computer crash so lost all the cookies, lol fun and games but back again...eek they said I didn't exist!, ::) Well folks into a new year lets hope we can turn up some clues to help us get the tree back to its roots.... Amanda hey I was looking at something on one of the genealogy sites, your stuff actually, but when I clicked to see more, hey I had to join and pay ???...on 2 sites...bum! >:( I put all my stuff on my Blomfield website FREE....no one has to pay to get their genealogy..cheeky sods.....cheers all for now and happy fruitful hunting!
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Amanda and I are still hot on the Blomfield/Blomvyle track 8) though some trails have gone cold ???....one Family line we are eager to trace is our great grandmother xxxxx etc., direct ancestor 18 generations, she is Elizabeth 'ENGLISH' daughter c1420 and heiress of William 'ENGLISH'c 1400.re pedigree records at Norfolk records office.....,she married our GILBERT BLOMYVLE in c 1469...in those days her family name would not have been 'ENGLISH'. possibly Englose/Inglose/Englose/l'englose/ etc., etc.,.....so......onwards
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Hi you Blo(o)mfield experts,
not a Stoneham one I'm having problems with, but reading your posts you seem to be the folks to help me. My James Bloomfield c 1815 would seem to be part of the family of James and Sarah of Bucklesham and Claydon. However, on both the 1841 and 1851 census his birthplace is given as "Benhall". This is something of a stumbling block for me, but unless there is another likely James
to attach to the family, can I embrace the rest of the family as mine including the Tasmania branch?
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Hi,
We are having a look into this for you, meanwhile if you have a Face Book Account we are all chatting over there about this and other stuff on https://www.facebook.com/groups/Blomvyle/
Amanda (Yi)
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Found this in a google book, may be of interest. 10-June-1642. Margaret Blomefield, alias Clench. Administration granted to William Blomefield, husband of Margaret Blomefield,alias Clench, late of Stoneham Parva. deceased.
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Hi,
I have just found a Blomfield who might belong in my tree, I don't know if anyone has come across her. Two baptism records (from FindMyPast transcripts & images)
TNA/RG/4/3093 SUFFOLK: Debenham (Independent): Births & Baptisms
17 Jul 1757 Debenham. William son of William & Elizabeth Buxton of Debenham. Baptised by Thomas Harmer
TNA/RG/4/1863 SUFFOLK: Watersfield (Independent): Births & Baptisms
17 Jul 1757 Watersfield. William son of William Buxton of the parish of Debenham by Elizabeth his wife, daughter of Stephen Blomfield, of the same town. Baptised by Thomas Harmer.
I assume that "Watersfield near Botesdale" is actually Wattisfield)
I am puzzled by why there is an entry in the Wattisfield records but this seems to contain details of baptisms in a number of parishes. I am thankful that it provides more detail.
However I have yet to find the marriage of Elizabeth & William or other convincing evidence of Elizabeth or Stephen. I wondered if anyone else had come across them
Robert.
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Hi,
A group of us have now gone back to Gilbert Blomvyle & Elizabeth c1450 and his father Robert & grandfather John Blomvyle m Alice Crowe (Will 1490) happy to share
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Hi Yi Win, that is nice of you. I have not pursued this line for a while. I would be interested in whatever you have to share. John.
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Hi,
Do you have Ancestry? If so PM me youe email or username and I can invite you to the joint tree we've put together - of course we cant guarantee its all correct and we are open to teaking it when more info comes along.
Yi
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Hi - I'm also interested in Gilbert Blomvyle and Elizabeth English: John and I share ancestors of the Blomfield line! I will message you with my Ancestry details.
Regards
GS
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I do not subscribe to ancestry now.
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I do not subscribe to ancestry now.
That doesn't matter YT, if Yi Win invites you to see their tree you can still look at it even if you don't have a subscription. Neither my brother nor cousin have ever belonged to Ancestry but can still see my tree.
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Have never tried that, sounds a good idea.
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I do not subscribe to ancestry now.
That doesn't matter YT, if Yi Win invites you to see their tree you can still look at it even if you don't have a subscription. Neither my brother nor cousin have ever belonged to Ancestry but can still see my tree.
You just can't view any of the Ancestry hosted documents saved to the tree, unless they are classed as "free" such as the FreeBMD index.
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Many thanks for info re Ancestry and tree invites will be sent.
Cheers for the help.
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Hi there, I've just discovered that my Bloomfield family ancestors are from Normandy, Suffolk & Norfolk, looks like the same line of names I discovered on Ancestry a few nights ago. I managed to go back to 1015, no further. my father, James William Bloomfield & his family came from Fulham originally. I was quite shocked to find a few 'Sir's' in the family.
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Hi,
There's a knight I think somewhere along the line as well. I assume you've gone back through to the d'Blunvil line? Be interesting to know who you've attached to ;-) Theres a facebook page you can join where we try and help trace lines of research for each and go back further - look up Blomvyle Blomfield Bloomfield Family
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Hi Guys,
Believe I am of the same line as you all! My relative John Wink, married Amy Blomfield to make the link. However, I believe I am descended from a Thomas Bloomfield (1608) through his son Hammond though I keep coming up blank when I search for him. Is anyone aware of this Hammond (I know there are a fair few in the line). This one was born 1634.
Many thanks
Kitty
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Hi,
I have Amy as daughter of Hamon and Ann Markwell (Earl Stonham)
Hamon from Hamant & Mary (Mendlesham)
Hamant from Thomas & Susan Camp (Richangles/Wetherinsett)
Thomas 1661 from Hammond & Ann (wetheringsett)
Hammond from Thomas & Ann
Ring any bells?
Yi
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Yes I have Hammond b 1634 - I do not have a link back any further than stated - he is related to my branch via marriage into another Blomfield branch.
Yi
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Hi there,
I haven't had chance to read all this but noticed Four Elms Stonham mentioned and the Blomfields and Genowes.
My understanding is that Genowes dated to around 1500 then changed to Four Elms in around 1550. This stayed until it turned into a school much more recently with a bit of history attached. Anyway, we bought Four Elms in 2015 and it is now a very happy family home once again. But I have loved learning the history from others 😁
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Hi Genowes,
Yi Win is Manda - we are in contact via email.
Hope the renovations are going ok & glad the house is being lived in as a home again.
Good luck!
PM me if you've lost my email - I've still got yours & some piccys of how things are going would be great.
Manda
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From the Suffolk Archives online -
This may be of interest to some people on here if they have not already seen it before.
These are grants/ demises/ deeds relating to Blomvyle's. It is over two pages and the dates range from 1473 - 1496. The names and places may be familiar to some people.
There is also a reference here for a will of a William "Blomvyle alias Blomfield" the elder of Little Stonham, in 1649. -
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/search/?s=Blomvyle&qa%5Bkeyword_reference_type%5D=0&qa%5Bpartner%5D&qa%5Bidentifier%5D&qa%5Bdate_from%5D&qa%5Bdate_to%5D&qa%5Btitle%5D&qa%5Bperson%5D&qa%5Bplace%5D&qa%5Bsubject%5D&qa%5Bformat%5D&cbpt=0&cbav=2&cbadvsearchquery
One of my 12x great grandad's was William Tydeman of Earl Stonham. He made his will there in 1667. In this will he mentions appurtenances which he brought off "John Blomfield, gent." -
http://www.alan137.co.uk/family/499.htm
This above tree has William's wife Ann as being born a Braham, daughter of John Braham of Wickham Skeith. But I can't find a marriage anywhere. It shows her maternal grandfather to have been William Blomfield (1573 - 1633). -
http://www.alan137.co.uk/family/500.htm
From his will written in 1679, there was a John Braham the elder of Wickham Skeith. He did have a son named John, and daughters named Frances, Mary, and Ann.
But Ann/Anne in John Braham's will was named as the wife of a John Corbold.
From a search result on Find My Past Ann Braham and John Corbold were married in 1652.
Ann's husband was the John Corbold/Corbould son of a Richard of Thorndon and Cotton named on page 5 here:
https://www.corbould.com/tcgbook/pdf/TCG_searchable.pdf
Thank you. :) ;)
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The link you posted is to my tree and while like you I have been unable to find the marriage of Edmund Tydeman to Ann I have left in the supposed marriage to a Ann Barham although this is very much unproven at present.
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Thank you very much.
Merry Christmas also. :)
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Hi Yi Win.
|Just thought I would ask a question of you but sorry I cannot help your research. My great grand father was Henry Blofield Rosher and I have never found out why he had the middle name. I assumed there was a connection with another family. Henry lived in the Barking, Needham Market area not so far from the Stonhams. Have you ever come across the surname Rosher or Rosier in your research.Best wishes and again sorry I cannot help further.
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My father Robert John Bloomfield was born in Stonham Aspel. He carried out a lot of research and discovered that we did come from Blonville (sometimes known as Blondeville) Sur Mer in Normandy. I have been there and it is quite a dull place so I'm nor surprised to find that our family moved to England.
All the paperwork he compiled has sadly been lost and I can only remember bits and pieces. We have a family crest and I think one of my brothers has a copy. Our family motto was 'Good Fortune Follows The Brave' which was a fairly generic motto and probably explains why I am poor.
I remember visiting Stonham Aspel for a holiday with my paternal grand parents in circa 1968 at the tender age of 16 and half the village seemed to be made up of Bloomfield's and the other half of a family called Cousins. I remember that the Village Postmaster was also the Village Poacher and when I asked him what he thought of my long hair he said. 'Well, Jesus had long hair.' He then chortled madly for a little while.
I was told that I had to visit all my 'Aunties' who lived in a row of cottages. I had to have tea and cake in each cottage as each one tried to outdo the previous one. I've never been quite so full.
Would be pleased to make contact with other Bloomfield's who may know more than me - which wouldn't be that difficult - and meanwhile I will check with my brothers to see what else I can glean.
Best Wishes
Nick Bloomfield