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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: devonblue on Tuesday 17 March 09 10:36 GMT (UK)
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A fellow researcher has sent me fairly conclusive proof that one of my Manleys moved to the USA c 1875.
Amelia (Maily) Manley was the daugher of Henry MANLEY and Matilda WELLS and was born about 1849 in Bridport, Dorset.
In 1871 she was on the census as Amelia Atwell along with John Atwell and 2 children Drusilla and Richard.
She married John ATTEWELL in Sebastian, Arkansas, USA in May 1874, had at least one more child Hester who died aged 2 months in Ridgely, Illinois in 1887 and died herself in 1887 in Ridgely. Newspaper reports of their marriage describe them as Gypsies
John ATTEWELL said he was born in Blackwood, Glamorganshire in 1845. I have been unable to trace him prior to the 1871 census.
I wondered if anyone else knew of this family.
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Not sure if this is any help : wondering if its Amelia & John 's Son ? Richard
But found US Directories 1887-1893 Illinois Springfield
Attwell Dane works in S Iron Co
Attwell Richard Horsedealer
Attwell William Works S Iron Co
All at same address 824 Sangamon Avenue
I do have Attwell in family that appear in USA
related to Jeffry & Pierce/Pearce family all from Enlgand and Gypsies
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Hi yes I think this is the same family. The place name sounds familiar.
The chap sent me loads of Attewell stuff from the USA so let me know if you need any. What we are trying to fathom is where they were BEFORE the went over there.
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Well I would like to know the connection if possible to Lucy Pearce/Jefferies/Jeffry & John Henry Pearce her husband
In 1920 Census I have a Dane Attwell aged 13 b 1907 Ohio his father is James Pearce, they are both listed with James Mother Lucy Pearce- I don;t know who mother of Dane is?
Lucy & John Henry came over in 1867 on SS England
thks Devonblue
I will see if I can help find family before 1871 might be worth changing spelling Attewill Attwill or similar
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found the marriage of Henry Manley & Matilda Wells
1847 Bridgeport Dorset Apr/May/June 8-68
Could this be another Child?
Matilda Manley christened 4th Dec 1859 Bradpole Dorset to Henry & Matilda Manley
Death :
Matilda Manley 1863 Apr/May/june Bridport Dorset
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Hi,
I have the cert for Henry Manley and Matilda Wells. I haven't got the death cert for Matilda Manley, wasn't sure who it was. Mother was still alive then.
Can you pm me with your email addy and I'll send you what I have.
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ok will pm you
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Have sent you some info. Let me know what you make of it.
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hi devonblue.just been reading through this post and i understand where your connection comes with all the travellers names except the coopers?i know where your other names come into the family but not sure how the coopers connect/the coopers are in my tree and i know how they connect to me but not your lines.Can you put me straight as i think i am missing something at the moment which i feel is staring me in the face but i cant for the life of me work it out at the moment.thanks and hope your keeping well.we must meet up soon.love cathayb
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Sarah Roberts dau of Frederick and Rebecca married James Cooper. They are living next door (tent!) in 1881
RG11/2125/32/26
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1861* Loders, Dorset
Henry Manly 37 hd b Bridport, Dorset
Matilda Manly 38 wife b Dorchester, Dorset
Eliza Manly18 dau b Stockland, Somerset
Maria Manly 14 dau b Tinstown, Dorset
Bieta Manly12 dau b Netherbury, Dorset
William Manly 7 son b Curry Rivel, Somerset
James Manly 4 son b Bern, Devon
Matilda Manly1 dau b Bradpole, Dorset
Robert Manly 9 son b Curry Rivel, Somerset
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Yes, but they still haven't got flippin' Maily with them have they!! Funny they seem to keep turning up in Loders.
Are you connected to this lot Romanygenes??
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Name: Henry Manley
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1 May 1863
Christening Place: Bridport, Dorset, England
Father's Name: Henry Manley
Mother's Name: Matilda
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NO not directly but its Dorset and am familiar with the records and families.
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would that be the Bieta Manly12 dau b Netherbury, Dorset
in the 1861 and mis transcribed i think it is?
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Maily was supposed to have been born in France in 1845 according to the US census of 1880.
This Bieta was born 1849, Maria is nearer the right age, maybe it's her. When she died in 1887 Maily was called Amelia.
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Hi I have just checked the image and it looks like amelia .
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Which image are you using? mine is from Ancestry and it looks like Maria LOL
Off to check find my past's one.
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Ok.........
FindMyPast's one is a bit clearer and still looks like Maria.
Bieta looks more like Bicla. T isn't crossed and the c looks likes like enumerators other cs.
Will ahve to look at the Ancestry tree haven't seen that, wonder if it's my correspondent's or someone else's.
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Yes i just magynified it and there is a Maria but the one spelt funny looks like Miella which is a name used by the Wells and is often interchangable with Amelia .
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I have some Dorset records on cd and the vri so will have a look for any baptisms.
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I still think that's a B not an M. I compared it with the B of Bridport for father's birthplace.
I suppose it could verbally sound like Biella if they said Miella. Of course one of the other Manleys had a dau Maily as well so the name is common with them.
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I have some Dorset records on cd and the vri so will have a look for any baptisms.
Thank you. I don't have those particular discs.
BTW where did the rest of this thread go???
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Well not much luck on the VRI some but I already have them and are later so no right Amelia for the right date , she must come from these same Wells famlily in my oppinion because of the links to the USA .Have no idea LOL to rest of thread !I had to go out and dident come back in till tea-time and saw that some had been quarentined ?
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Hi everyone :)
John ATTEWELL said he was born in Blackwood, Glamorganshire in 1845. I have been unable to trace him prior to the 1871 census.
On the 1880 US census John (circa 1842) states he and both his parents were born in ENGLAND.
deb
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i debs how you doing girl?matilda has had a baby girl but shes coming on here again now.we are having a bit of luck with the hughes davis folk are they related to you through ocean hughes marrying a penfold?
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Hi cous :)
and a big congrats to Matilda and her new daughter !!! :-*
Okay ...yep we related that way ...
My gg granddad Thomas Penfold (married Sophia Orchard) had a brother Henry Penfold who married Ocean Hughes[/u]
deb ;D
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hi Cathay and Deb (cousin) im here !!!
just to update Liberty Belle Holland was born 12/1/2009 and is now just over 10 wks old ;D a new twig to add to the ever growing trees.
begining to find time to get back in to this so give me a yell if i can help out
hope u r all well Matilda ;)
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hi ;D
Matilda, GREAT NAME!!!!!!!!!!! :-*
Devonblue ............. Do you have the details of Maily Manley's marriage to John Attewell? What was his dad's name? all details and info may help.
deb
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thanks Deb :-*
trying to keep with family traditions but not too unusal lol ;)
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In 1930 Census USA Davenport Ward 4, Scott, Iowa
There is a family of Attwell
Dain Attwell 48 b Illinois Buyer of Horses Parents English
Mary Attwell 40 b England parents English yr Immigrated 1890
Albert Attwell 18 b Minnesota
Earl Attwell 17 b Wisconsin
Erville Attwell 13 b Iowa
Inez Attwell 7 b Iowa
Angeline Attwell 4 b Wisconsin
John Attwell 2 b Wisconsin
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Hi, been away all day sorry.
The only details I have of this marriage is what someone in the US sent me who was asking about the family. It is not checked or anything.
He said:
Maily Manley married John Henry Attewell on 25 May 1874 (St John's Episcopal Church) ***WHERE?***
Marriage took place in the evening, William Attewell and Constant and Caroline Smith were Witnesses. The record shows the place of residence for Maley (Different spelling) as Dorsetshire.
My notes in red.
Also from the Daily Arkansas Gazette Little Rock AR Sat May 30th 1874 issue 162 Col B
Sebastian (Local NEWS)
"Rev D McManus rector of the Episcopal church at this place married last Monday two gipsies John Atwell and Meley Mandley. They are English and were raised in the Episcopal church with the doctrines of which they seemed well acquainted. He also baptised on the same occasion two children of respectable looking gipsies who seemed to fully understand the sacredness of the rite."
As for a certificate or anything, I have absolutely zilch!!
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I believe I have an idea who the mother of Dane Attwell is. Based upon some family letters it would appear that Richard Attewell (son of Maily Manley and John Attewell) married a Muriel Pearce. I know Richard did have a son named Dane. Therefore I think James Pearce is actually and uncle and not the father. I suspect Muriel Pearce is the mother and Richard Attewell the father. Dane is a common name in my Attewell line. I'm still digging.
I also have a Great Grand Aunt that married into the Jeffery line. Her name was Charlotte Attewell (John and Maily's daughter.)
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hi right I'm new on here so will try help my name is Stephen Attewell my family were travelling people with the fair and circus my middle name is john its a family name so is Henry they often overwintered in Glamorgan Swansea and more often llandeilo or lllandovery. Emmanuel was my grandfather he had brothers who emigrated to the us around that time hope this has been some help if were on the right track don't hesitate to get in touch
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For those who are trying to place family before 1871 using variant spellings of surname whether its them or those who wrote surname cannot be certain.
Alwell - Hatewell
1871 Town:North Weston and Portishead County/Island: Somerset England taken in April.
Surname Alwell John & Amelia - lists in vans/tents as peddlars with 2 children Drusila & Richard
Richard birth registers in 1869 Cardiff Wales- DEATH 1943 3RD JULY Ellenboro, Grant, Wisconsin, USA
Drusila birth according to census was born 1863/4 likely Dorset
They left months after being in Wales - 1871 a daughter Charlotte was born on USA
Birth Date: Oct 1871 Birth Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
She became partner of Leonard Jeffery son of Thomas & Amelia - they had 9 children.
Thomas & Amelia death was in 1877 USA and are my Grt Grt Uncle and Aunt he was brother of Kezia Jeffery wife of Tenet Buckland my Grt Grt grandparents.
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So excited to see this name I'm replying before I read all the posts. Ive been researching (attempting to...) Richard John Attewell born 1877 died 1918 and if you visit Aberkenfig in S Wales, you'll see its the very 1st name on the war memorial. My great granny's sisters brother-in-law, a fairground man who got killed in WW1. He married Celia Roberts, a Romany gypsy and they lived in Aberkenfig. PS, should add that in 1911 they camped in Abersychan woods near Newport in a wagon. My great granny was with them in a tent. Richard's father was Henry and I believe his mum was Hannah Maria. Richard & Celia's children were Ethel (who married a Mr Pearce in Bridgend 1927), Hannah, Samson (died 1914 age 1) and Grace. After Celia remarried some of the kids took the 'Williams' surname.
DEVONBLUE, I see youre researching Roberts travellers, this is my family.
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Hi Rebekahm
I have your ancestor Richard J Attewell born 1877 Newport, Monmouth, Wales and he did die in Great War 1918 22nd Sept of his wounds.
At time of death given residence was Aberkenfig, Glamorgan.
Enlistment Place Cardiff he was a Private in Shropshire Light Infantry Battalion:1st Battalion Regimental Number:27355, although previously with( 52691) Welch Regt.
The family line began with Charlotte Joles daughter of Isaac & Merrily Cooper b 1826 Colyton, Devon, England & Richard( Henry ) Attewell b 1825 Berkshire, England.
1881 They certainly had 2 children with them in Worle Somerset
William b 1863 & Richard John b 1877 lists family as gypsies and he was born in Newport Wales
1901 Ross St Mary Hertfordshire A Richard Attwell b 1877 Newport lists as nephew with John & Jemima Smith travelling showman. ( As of yet cannot find link how he relates) although in census it was always relationship to head of family so suggests he was a child of John sibling unknown.
John Smith was b 1851 Herts son of Cornelius Smith b 1814 Northampton & Hannah
Jemima was b 1849 Herts
1904 Newport Richard J wed Celia Roberts I would suggest getting certificate to confirm fathers .
I did find:
Brother William Attewell b 1863 died 12 AUG 1893 Cardiff, Wales according to his will
of Cardiff licensed hawker died at Treforest Glamorgan- left £40 to his widow Mary Ann
I did find
Sister Matilda BIRTH 23 JUL 1858 LLANTWIT MAJOR,GLAMORGAN,WALES
spouse was Albert Pengelly b 1861.
Charlotte in 1901 was with her married daughter Mary ( spouse Alfred Jones) 1861 Weston Super More, Somerset, England lists as widow and died 1907 Pontypridd, Glamorgan which was where family lived.
Why parents are given as Henry Attewell and Hanna Maria when he he died cannot explain although both had passed away several years previous.
Richard death 1899 Cardiff & Charlotte 1907 Pontypridd, Glamorgan
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Yes that ties in with what I've confirmed, many thanks. I'm just confused to Charlotte / Hannah Maria...who was Richards mother? I havent got his birth cert to hand to check but Charlotte would have been too old. Yet she was married to the father, poss 1st wife? Richard and Celia lived on Dunraven Street in Aberkenfig when he went off to war, just by Celia's parents. Celia and her sisters were fortune tellers and Celia later remarried and moved to Bridgend where she took in lodgers. The marriage cert does confirm fathers and we knew of the Somerset link with Richard; I think Celia's parents had also travelled through Somerset from Sussex before they came to Newport then Aberkenfig where they finally settled. They had a scrapyard in Pontypridd too. I can give info on Richard and Celia's children and grandchildren if required. On the birth record he's just Richard. On marriage he's Richard John.
PS 1901 census in Ross with John & Jemima Smith. John was born in Much Marcle and the Smiths were a hawking family who were in Lydney in 1891. Possibly Jemima he was related to.
Ive also found a James Henry Attewell born 1874 in Newport but unsure where he fits in.
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Does anyone have any idea who this is ?
16 Mar 1828 ( B 4th Jan 1828) James Attewell christened Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England
James & Amelia states - travellers.
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I can confirm that Richard Attewell's parents were Henry Attewell and Hannah Maria Loveridge. From their marriage certificate it indicates that they were married on April 24, 1876. Henry's father was Richard on the cert. From other records, I have determined Henry's mother was Charlotte Joles.
Richard and Charlotte had at least 3 other children (Mary, Matilda and William). I believe my great grandfather (John Attewell who married Maley Manley) might be another of their children but I cannot definitively prove it. Hannah died in April of 1879 and Henry remarried Rebecca. Henry and Rebecca had several children of their own children including Fiance, Albert, Emmanuel, Cissy, Sophia, Priscilla and May. I have more information and am happy to share. I would love to know Rebecca's last name as well as find a definitive link with my Attewell's in the US. Regards,
Mike.
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HI HOPE THIS MAY BE OF HELP MY DAD WAS HENRY ATTEWELL MY GRANDAD WAS EMANUEL ATTEWELL MY GRATE GRANDAD WAS HENRY ATTEWELL MARRED REBECCA [SCAMP] IM AWAY FROM HOME AT THE MOMENT AND DONT HAVE ANY DATES BUT HAVE THEM IF YOUR INTERESTED
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Ok many thanks, Im pleased to have found you all. If you want information about Richard let me know. Interesting that Rebecca was a Scamp, lots of them (and Loveridge's) about still, proper Romany. Attewell's live around Newport, where Richard (Henry & Hannah's s son) settled. Richard died in WW1 so anyone related can join the RTFHS march in London but you need to contact them asap. Attewell, who was your mum?
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hi my mothers name was joan harris my dad henry died when I was very young but I remember going to see loveridge,s who were family I think in porthcawl my grandmother who marred Emmanuel attewell was a Mary Hughes a welch farmer her mother a Mary Price Irish traveler
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Hi all
I found this marriage cannot confirm right couple,but not found a Rebecca Scamp marriage.
With Hannah death in April of 1879, it does fit he remarried following year.
Name Anna Maria Attewell
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Registration Year 1879
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death 24
Registration district Cardiff
Inferred County Glamorganshire
Volume 11a
Page 190
Marriage :
Henry Atwell to Rebecca Railey
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Carnarvon
Parishes for this Registration District:
Inferred County: Caernarvonshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 677
Looking at the 1911 Census they say wed 30 years ( thus wed 1881) and had 5 children all living, I think Sophia was known as Cissy, so only one child using 2 names.
I think Fiance was Hannah daughter b APRIL 1879 Gower Glamorgan, which fits with Hannah death maybe cause was to do with birth and sadly Fiance did not survive registered death was JANUARY 1880 Cardiff, Glamorganshire.
This also then make sense Richard Attewell was son of Henry & Hanna Maria born JULY 1877 Newport, Monmouthshire and was with his grandparents Richard Attewell & Charlotte Joles in 1881 Worle Somerset having lost his mother and sister Fiance and his father remarried Rebecca in same year.
1904 He returned to Wales and married Celia Roberts
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Newport
Inferred County Monmouthshire
Volume 11a
Page 509
He also named a daughter Annie Maria after his mother below is her death.
Name: Annie M M E Attewell
Birth Date: abt 1910
Date of Registration: Dec 1918
Age at Death: 8
Registration district: Bridgend
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 1441
SAVE
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Hi all
Both Henry & Rebecca death registers were in Llanelly Carmarthenshire.
Rebecca death was 1946 19th Dec and at time living *The Caravan Danybank Pembrey Carmarthenenshire she was widowed as Henry death was Dec 1935 Llanelly Carmarthenshire , she left money to her daughter Priscilla according to will who was spinster at time. Priscilla died 1970 June death registered Llanelly Carmarthenshire and assuming she never married.
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Hi Mike
I agree that John Henry Attewell b 1842 Blackwood Glamorgan Wales is very likely son of Richard & Charlotte Joles and his death was OCT. 20, 1881 Springfield Sangamon Illinois, confirmed by his will leaving property and land to spouse Maila and children Druscella Richard Charlotte William Dangerfull Filly and Jemima.
Maila/Amelia died 28 JAN 1887 Sangamon County, Illinois, USA and all was passed to the children.
She died 1-28-1887 at 38Y of consumption in Ridgely, Illinois.
She was daughter of Henry Manley 1822 Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England
DEATH 8 FEB 1888 Honiton, Devon, England
&
Matlida Wells 1823 Exeter, Devon, England
DEATH JUN 1899 Axminster, Devon, England
her parents were James Wells and Ruth Small
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I had Henry and Hannah Maria having 3 children together; Matilda, William and Richard. But if Hannah Maria was born c1855 the first 2 weren't hers, Henry must have had a previous wife. So including Rebecca Scamp, he was married 3 times? Someone has posted on here that Rebecca's surname was Scamp. Tiggi: Richard and Celia's daughter who died aged 8 was called Hannah, but her death was registered as Annie as that's what they called her. My great granny was her aunty and camped with her. Celia lost her husband, daughter and father all in 1918.
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Hi rebekahm
I think you maybe muddling up children :
Henry Atewell was b 1855 although it does vary on census, he was son of Richard 1825 Berkshire, England DEATH 1899 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales.
&
Charlotte Joles 1822 8TH JULY Colyton, Devon, England - DEATH 1907 Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales
Henry then wed/partnered Anna/Hanna Maria Loveridge b 1855 Cardiff, Glamorgan
DEATH APRIL OF 1879 Cardiff, Glamorganshire
With her he had 2 children I found:
Richard J Attewell JULY 1877 Newport, Monmouthshire - DEATH 22 SEP 1918 France and Flanders - spouse Celia Roberts
Fiance Attewell 1879 APRIL Gower, Glamorgan - DEATH 1880 JAN Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Thus when his mother died Hanna Maria *Richard J * went to live with his grandparents before he wed Celia Roberts.
1880/1 Richard J father -Henry remarried Rebecca Railey ( I cannot find anyone named Scamp) b 1861 Cardiganshire, Wales
They had Bertie b 1881 -Emanuel b 1884- Sophia/Cissy b 1885- Priscilla b 1887-- May b 1902
I also found Matilda Attewell b 1883 Llandovery Carmarthenshire which was same place Bertie was born, could be his sister.
There was a Mary Rebecca Attewell b 1908 Llandovery Carmarthenshire likely child of Emanuel
Charlotte Attewell 1912 Llandovery Carmarthenshire mother Hughes who I think is daughter of Emanuel and Mary Hughes
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Matilda, William and Richard were children of Richard and Charlotte thus Henry siblings and also Mary
Mary b 1856 Weston Super Mare, Somerset, England spouses were Albert Jones and Wm H Welch
Matilda b 1862 Bridgend, Glamorgan - DEATH SEP 1938 Newport, Gwent, Wales spouse was Albert H Pengelly
William b 1863 Sussex, England - DEATH 1893 Glamorgan, Wales the only proof of a spouse was via his will Mary Ann ? when he left her £40.
That leave one more son John Henry Attewell who married Maley Manley he was b 1842 - Glamorgan, Wales - Death: 20 Oct 1881 - Springfield
John Henry Attewell is very likely son of Richard & Charlotte Joles and his death was OCT. 20, 1881 Springfield Sangamon Illinois, confirmed by his will leaving property and land to spouse Maila and children Druscella Richard Charlotte William Dangerfull Filly and Jemima.
Maila/Amelia was daughter of Henry Manley 1822 Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England
DEATH 8 FEB 1888 Honiton, Devon, England
&
Matlida Wells 1823 Exeter, Devon, England
DEATH JUN 1899 Axminster, Devon, England
her parents were James Wells and Ruth Small
Henry Manley was son of William Manley and Sarah Fletcher she was b 1786 Owermoigne, Dorset, England the daughter of William Fletcher & Sylvia/Selbea Stanley
Sylvia father was Peter Stanley.
Wm Fletcher & Sylvia Stanley married 06 Jun 1781 Millbrook,Hampshire,England and her parents Peter and Sarah Stanley, vagabonds, on 22nd August 1762 baptised William her brother another brother Paul, in Hampshire at South Warnborough on 10th September 1775.
Hope this makes sense
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Hello Stephen,
I would love to hear more about your grandfather Emmanuel and any associated dates you have. I am also very intrigued and interested in his brothers who came to the states. Do you have any more detail on that such as which brothers, when and where in the states they went to? Regards,
Mike
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Hi. I've just stumbled on this thread as I'm looking for a particular Attewell. However, I notice some dialogue about Amelia Manley b c. 1847. I think she is definitely mistranslated in the 1861 census as Maria (it's not so different phonetically to 'melia). Although the census says she was born in Dorset the family were travelling throughout the South West. I believe Amelia was baptised in Misterton, Somerset on 17 January 1747 d/o Henry & Matilda Manley.
The person I'm currently researching is Harriet Attewell bp 26 May 1877 at Dingestow, Monmouth. She was the daughter of Stephen and Mahalah Ayres. Mahala was baptised as a Burton in Somerset but travelled in Wales under the name Ayres (her grandmother's maiden name). Mahala (also known as Ela) had several relationships but always baptised her children under the name of Ayres. So, Harriet's father may not be an Ayres. I'm trying to find out with which Attewell Harriet formed a relationship. Apart from her baptism, the only other record I've found for Harriet is on the 1901 census where she is listed as Harriet Attewell aged 22 and living with her grandmother who is listed as Harriet Burton.
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helo
Their is a record in the Shepton Mallet Journal Friday 26 May 1916, this is about a John Atterwell travelling with three Gipsy vans.
also, in 1910 their is a record of a Richard Attewell a Gipsy. the Goucester Journal 29 0f October
in 1897 on the 2 July Friday, their is a Richard Attewell story, it says
"An Aged Man And His Old Horse,"
he is described as a travelling hawker and an octogenarian. South Wales Echo
in 1893, William died, a very tragic death, I have never seen so many records of any account with a Gipsy in, if you take the time to really look, you will find little answers that do not appear in just one record, in one record it says, William Attewell died, 25 years of age single, hawker, then in another it says Wm Attewell hawker who leaves a Widow and six Children, then another, William Attewell 25 hawker, his Wife and Family of six Children are encampt on Whitechurch Common,
their is one record that says
The Gipsys Sister,
it says the court gave an involuntary murmaur of surprise when they saw a very respectable dressed woman coming forwards to give evidence of identification, and stated that She was the Sister of the deceased Gipsy. She is the Wife of a industrious and honest collier, living on the Craig at Pontypridd.
then I found a record that says She was known as Mrs Walsh, and this time William was 29, and had a Wife and several Children. William died in a massive train crash.
in Wales in 1872 Pricilla Smith described as a Hawker, Richard Attiwell a travelling Gipsy Tinker and Mary Attiwell a Gipsy Girl were all trying to get pedlars licences evan thoe they had been refused,
1890 William Attewell was summoned for four straying horses, Gloucester Journal 19 July.
in 1854 in the Winsor and Eton Express plus the Berkshire Chronicle Saturday 21 of October William Attewell 23, and Peggy Sherry 21, were charged with stealing, they were Gipsies and labourers ,forlorn looking Creatures, evidently in having been in the habit of leading a wandering life.
The male prisoner said he had sold to his Sister in misfortune the cart and cloth, the prisoner said if you want me you will find me at Gipsy Lane_ a great rendezvous of that romantic yet roguish tribe.
from reading this I think Peggy was his Sister.
Monmouthshire Beacon Saturday 23 February 1850
Edward Smith, John Jenkins, Richard Atterwell
Benjamin Smith, defendants appeared with their faces severely lacerated and bruised, they had been engaged in fighting at the fair
Reading Mercury Monday 14 March Berkshire
TO CONSTABLES, GAOLERS, AND OTHERS.
Whereas, John Hattewell the Older, and John Hattewell the Younger whos place of residence is supposed to be Halderind ? Gloucestershire, who ever will apprehend and lodge them in his Majesty's Gaol shall receive five guineas reward upon application to Mr John Hoare, of Sutton Courtney, treasurer of the Sutton Association for the Prosecution of Felons.
The said John Hattewell the Older is a thin man, rather dark in complexion about 50 years of age.
They have been in the habit of travelling through the Country in a cart and deal in horses, woollen and linen cloth, they are supposed to be in parts of the counties of Berks or Oxford.
Abingdom, March 10. 1831
Pricilla's Smiths Son did not look old enough
Richard Attiwell lived in a tent
plus Mary Attiwell was a fortune teller
these were the reasons they did not give them a pedlars licence. the story was in the Cardiff and Merthyr, Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, Wales
20 January 1872,
these are just extracts, I just write what comes my way, I hope some of the information may be of help to people in their reserch
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I will just put the last of the records I have been looking at, I don't know anything about who is below, if none are from the Gipsys at least it is more information for the researches of the future to see the bigger picture, again these articles are just extracts.
Monmouth Fair
Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette.
Saturday 3 June 1835
A man named John Attiwell was apprehended at our fair on Tuesday on suspicion of horse_stealing
The man as been in the habit of attending our fairs as a vender of wooden bowls, on this occasion he was endeavouring to deal in horses, there is information of two more horses having lately been stolen
from Tiddenham in Gloucestershire and another from a different part of the county
Gloucester Chronicle Saturday 20 June 1835
John Attiwell apprehended at Monmouth, on suspicion of horse stealing. Attiwell as been committed to the county goal at Brecon to be tried for stealing the animal the property of James James of Talgarth. William Gilbert of Cluddock in the County of Hereford as identified one horse as being his property
Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan Monmouth and Brecon Gazette
Saturday 15 August 1835
Edward Aston lived at Colfords Lane End in the Parish of Newland Gloucestershire, he first new prisoner when he came about selling bowls and wooden ware, " prisoner came to I and axed I to have a jug o beer, I telled un I couldn't for I had work to do"
this Edward went on to swap horses in a deal with Attiwell, then when he tried to sell the horse himself he told of Attiwell to the police who them arrested Attiwell , this is what the judge said,
The Jury consulted for a few minutes and returned a verdict of guilty, but unanimously recommended the prisoner to mercy, on account of his age, which was stated in the calendar year to be only 18 years. The learned Judge said, that he would take a note of the recommendation, but he had no discretionary power. Some years ago, it was the practice to pass sentence of death on a person convicted of horse stealing, but the legislature had, when they did away with the capital punishment, and substituted it for transportation for life, deprived the judge of all discretionary power. The sentence of the Court was, that the prisoner be transported for life.
in the Hereford Times on Saturday 20 June 1835, it states , The prisoner as long enjoyed a non_enviable reputation, and is suspected of being concerned in many similar transactions.
Monmouthshire Merlin Saturday January 1835
John Attiwell aged 22 and Charles Edwards aged 19 were found guilty of stealing a portion of dead horse, from poor mans field in the Parish of Shire Newton 19 October 1834, the horse had been turned out to graze and on the next day it was discovered dead with the prisoners busily engaged in dismembering the body,
there was a William Attiwell from Shire Newton who was charged with stealing and he lived in a house in 1833, so he could be related to John Attiwell, William was 47 John was 22, they could just be local Attiwells.
there was a John Attiwell and Thomas Hughes transported for life in the Hereford Journal Wednesday 29 March 1837, they were stealing horses to.
also in the Hereford Journal 13 May 1818, there is a Thomas Attewell horse dealer and farmer, this was the day they telled of his death
when most of the easy answers have been found like the ones I found yesterday, you are left with the hard clues like the ones above, none of these could be Gipsys, some could be related, this is when you need the real experts who can trace back through the many ways of Genealogy, I remember Sue of the Romany Geanes Web Site saying of all the long hours of research and miles of travelling to officers to check records, I will just leave the records of the people I have been writing about, it will help I do hope, others who can do a better research in the future, every bit of help counts,
Respect to all the Long Dead
michael
ps , if in oral records names like Scamp were spoken of as connected, well in someway this is more than likely true, Old People knew of things, then down through just one generation the hedgers get trimmed back, finally all you are left with is a mystery, Census records will miss out so many truths, to combine all the ways of researching is the right way to go, Good Luck to all who search these records
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Excellent, thank you. I have some of these, but not most. Regards.
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Hi i only recently found this forum i am looking for more on Richard Attewell who is on the 1891 census at Newport,Woollos,Monmouthshire as born in Alderton,Gloucestershire do i accept this location or look elsewhere.
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David, I'll private message you. We may have the same person in our tree.
Rebekah
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Hi Rebekahm,sorry its taken a while to reply i'm still getting the hang of computers, I believe we share a great grandfather in Henry Attewell 1856-1935 so hello cousin.
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Hi Ive private messaged my email.
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For those researching Richard Attewell born 1877 to Henry Attewell and Hannah Maria Loveridge; I have found on Glamorgan burials a 'Queen Mary Loveridge' buried in Aberkenfig aged 5 months, she was living with Richard Attewell and his wife Celia at 39 Dunraven Street, Aberkenfig. Queen Mary's mothers maiden name was Roberts, which was Celia's maiden name. Im unsure who this childs parents were and if they were living with Richard and Celia, or if Celia fostered the child, as she seemed to take in lodgers most of her life. Just thought it may be of interest to anyone looking at the Loveridge's as well as the Attewell's.
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Hi, just to add to Emanuels Attewells story he traveled the fairs with film shows and before that as a prize fighter in jack Scarrots boxing booth and his wife Mary [Hughes] on smaller stalls.
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Hi David I've emailed you tonight , if you don't get them they might be in the spam folder. many thanks for the info! In 1939 henrys wife Rebecca was widowed with adult children Albert and Priscilla living in a caravan on market street, Carmarthen . She died in a caravan in Danybanc, pembrey in Dec 1946.
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Hi,My grandfather Emanuel told me his mother was a Scamp so Ive been searching and on the marriage certificate of Henry Attewell + Rebecca Railey in 1880 were her parents names Thomas + Sara, is it possible this was Thomas Scamp + Sara Boswell using the surname Riley as his father William Riley Scamp AKA William Riley had done perhaps to keep out of the way which would explain Rebecca's surname being listed as Railey instead of Scamp.
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Looks like it David, I'm glad your grandfer gave you information, there's so much we cant rely on written records for. Boswell a good strong gypsy name. x
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Hi Rebecca i'm more sure of it now as i have some cousin matches to Sarah Boswell on ancestry DNA.
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Hi the line of Buckland Loverides Smiths and many other on this post and many that's not that's connected to them are my mum's lines her fathers side are the Famous Smiths and Loveridges and her mother's side are the famous Bucklands Smiths Loveridges and Herons.
Her father was Sefton With his Granny was Selina Buckland Pluto and so on her fathers side was Gildroy Smith his wife was Eve Stephens/Stevens. And my mum's Granny And Grand Father was Gildroy Smith and Granny Rosina Ellis.
Regards John.
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1901 census Ross ST Mary Hertfordshire Richard J Attewell b 1877 travelling with John and Jemima Smith nee Jemima Joles daughter of Richard Joles probably called her aunty much as we do today with cousins who are older. Jemima's aunt was Charlotte Joles grandmother to Richard J Attewell.