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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Laois (Queens) => Topic started by: mkftandc on Thursday 19 March 09 07:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to understand how and why my gg great grandfather would have changed his last name in Ireland.
Martin McGrath/Creagh b. in Co. Laois ,died in 1882 in Ballyraggett.
Martin married Anna Fry in Rathdowney, Co. Laois ( haven't found their marriage yet ) don't know if it would be under McGrath or Creagh.
Children of Martin and Anna -
John McGrath - b. Jan ,1856 in Co. Laois d. 10 Feb 1935 in Ballyragget ( I don't know if John's birth was registered under McGrath or Creagh but John stayed in Ireland and took over the family bakery on High St, Ballyragget when his father Martin died .)
James McGrath - no dates for him , married a Mary Bergin in Co. Laois and died in Co. Laois . ( also don't know if his birth is registered as McGrath or Creagh )
[b]Elizabeth Craugh/Creagh OKeefe - b. Jun 1863 in Rathdowney, Co. Laois d. 3 Sep 1930 in Penn Yan, NY USA[/b]
(Elizabeth married a Patrick OKeefe from Rathdowney and immigrated to US)
[b]Richard J Craugh/Creagh - b. 13 Sep 1865 in Rathdowney, Co. Laois
d. 9 Jun 1941 in Penn Yan, NY USA[/b] (don't know how his birth was registered , but immigration and naturalization papers state last name as Craugh )
Michael P Creagh/Craugh - b. 18 Feb 1866 in Rathdowney,Co. Laois
d. Circa 1900-05 in Iowa( Michael's birth is listed on IGI as Creagh , Immigration papers lists his name a Craugh )
Bridget Creagh - b. 1865 - found this one on IGI, she must have died soon after birth .
Martin Creagh/Craugh - b. 4 Jul 1868 on Bridge St, Mountmellick, Co. Laois
d. 8 May 1935 in Penn Yan, NY USA
( Martin is listed on IGI as Creagh, birth cert. also says Creagh, ship manifest and immigration papers say Craugh. ) Martin married Anna OKeeffe in Co. Laois ?, they immigrated with their 1 year old child.
Kathleen McGrath/Craugh - b. 5 Dec 1872 in Rathdowney or Ballyragget
d. 21 Oct 1933 in NYC ,NY USA
(Kathleen birth cert. say McGrath on it, she immigrated to US with her mother Anna Frye McGrath after Martin died. Immigration ship records lists them as McGrath's. But in Penn Yan where the rest of the family was living they changed name to Craugh.
Mary McGrath Creagh- b. Oct 1873 in Rathdowney or Ballyragget
d. 13 Mar 1951 in Penn Yan, NY USA
( I am assuming since Kathleen's birth was registered under McGrath that Mary's must also be labeled under McGrath, although i couldn't find it in the IGI )
Can some please explain to me why the name change in Ireland. Would it have been for religious reasons ? They were all raised Catholics, but I am thinking that their mother , Anna Fry/e might not have been.
Anna Fry/e's parents were - Samuel Fry/e and Mary Prior of Rathdowney.
Sorry so long of a post , I just wanted to add everything I knew about them so someone could help me figure out the name changing.
Thank you,
Megan
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I don't know why the change of surname but the people in Rathdowney cemetery all have the spelling CREAGH and there's about 15 of them buried there.
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Seanmac,
Thank you for replying to this thread .
Is the cemetery called " Rathdowney Cemetery " or is there another name for it ? Can I find these details on a website ?
Would you happen to know who I can contact to get MI's on this cemetery?
Thank you,
Megan
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The church is the 'Church Of The Holy Trinity' and a man to contact would be;
Kieran O Sullivan,
Main St,
Rathdowney
087-7615257
0505-46299
The cemetery list I have is dated 1928-2001 that contains the Creagh burials.
I can forward those names if you wish,
Regards,
Seanmac
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Seanmac,
Thank would be wonderful if you could forward them to me . Thank you for your help on this.
Megan
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Mc Creagh Mrs.. 45, farmer, married, Harristown, 7/5/1933
Creagh John, 75, labourer, married, Grogan, 20/11/1934
Creagh Michael, 65, farmer, widower, Harristown, 22/9/1936
Creagh Christina, 12, Harristown, 29/5/1938
Creagh Kitty, 18, single, New cottages, 12/2/1939
Creagh Christopher, 85, single, New cottages, 21/9/1941
Creagh James, 56, labourer, single, Grogan Ballybrophy, 9/1/1946
Creagh John, 55, labourer, single, Grogan, 25/4/1948
Creagh John, 80, labourer, widower, Sragh, 5/9/1951
Creagh Peter, 74, married, New cottages, 27/6/1953
Creagh Kate, 72, widow, 25/8/1954
Creagh Annie, 70, married, New cottages, 24/2/1955
(all from Rathdowney RC cemetery)
Creagh, Catherine, 24, single, arristown, 25/2/1956
Creagh Anne Miss, 63, London/Rathdowney, 5/2/1985
Creagh Patrick, 74, labourer, single, New cottages, 25/7/1990
Creagh Bridie, 89, single, Grogan, 18/8/1990
Creagh Mrs, 89, widow, Ballybuggy, 3/5/1992
Creagh Patrick, labourer, single, Ballybuggy, 16/8/2001
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from the McGrath clan website at http://www.cerebis.com/mcgrath/
extract : "...MacGrath is often written Magrath .... In Irish it is Mac Craith,...."
Mac Craith could be written in English as Mc Creagh...
might be an explanation for the change
Shane
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From Familysearch Irish Civil Registrations 1845-1958, that gives Births, Deaths, Marriages from the Mountmellick/Abbeyleix District, but this one also includes Donaghmore, there is a parents section and after putting in the surname Creagh, Laois, these are some 'parents' that were mentioned (one name only)
Bowe
Loughman
Bartley
Dowling
Creagh
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Seanmac,
Thank you for posting those MI's for me .And for looking further into this mystery .
Megan
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Shane,
I was thinking the same thing about the name change Mc Craith except for the fact that the name change occured in Ireland , where I would think people would know how to say the name.
I think this one might be a mystery that will never be solved . Because no one is alive to ask.
Thank you for your help,
Megan
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Creagh is normally pronounced "Kray" however I have also heard it called Cra "Kra", a person given a name as I'm Creagh could be easily interpreted as McGrath by someone transcribing.
There is no direct correlation between the two names apart from marriage, as Creagh originated when a group of O'Neill clan dressed in green branches (camouflage/luck???) rode into the battle of Limerick. The name comes from craobh meaning literally branch.
McGrath or Mc Gra (Mac gra) son of love or child of grace
http://mcgrathsearch.com/files/Common_Origins_10-24-05b.PDF
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I know it's many years later but this might help. From the Rathdowney Parish register for Marriages.
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Hi Creaghp,
Thank you for posting this marriage. I haven't gotten to Laois parish registers yet. I'm still working on Monaghan right now. But now I will have to switch over to Laois.
That is the right marriage for Martin Creagh and Ann Fry. Anna Frye's parents were Samuel Frye and Mary Prior. And according to your picture its lists a Michael Prior. A very good lead. Thank you again.
Megan
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Do you know who Martin Creagh's parents were?
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Martin's Parents - John Creagh and Mary Brouthers. They lived on Moore St., Rathdowney. They immigrated to Penn Yan, New York around 1880 where their other children were living.
John Creagh died 16 Apr 1888 in Penn Yan
Mary Brouthers died 10 Oct 1889 in Penn Yan.
The children that I know of are the ones who immigrated (all male) besides Martin who is my direct ancestor.
John Creagh/Craugh b. abt 1830 d. 28 Nov 1902 in Penn Yan md.
Margaret Pine - 23 Feb 1857 in Rathdowney.
Martin Creagh/ McGrath b. abt 1832 d. 1894 in Ballyragget, md. Anna Fry
Patrick Creagh/Craugh - b abt 1835 d. 1919 in Penn Yan, md. Margaret S. Long - she was from Laois but I do not know if they in Laois or New York.
Michael Creagh/Craugh- b. 1838 d. 1910 in Penn Yan, md. Margaret Sweeney in Penn Yan
William J Craugh/Craugh- b. 1848 d. 1922 in Syracuse, md Catherine Quinlan in Penn Yan.
I an sure there are probably females siblings to these boys but I haven't found them yet.
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Thanks for that. Looking at Martin's parents I don't believe that there is an documented connections between him and the Creagh's I am tracking. My Great (x2) Grandfather was Thomas Creagh born about 1810 and he came from several miles outside the town of Rathdowney.
If I come across anything I think might be connected to you I will post it.
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Sorry as I have not being paying enough attention. That first image is for their Child Bridget. Born 1st Jan and Baptised on the 4th Jan 1865.
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Here is child Michael Creagh Born and baptised on 18 Feb 1866
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Another Child.
Richard Creagh Born October 1851.
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Sorry September 1851
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Another Child. Mary Ann Creagh Born Nov 1863
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Another Chils.
James Creagh 8th July 1857.
Note this is spelt "Cray" as it is currently pronounced. So the priest writing down the name spelt it as it was pronounced. A couple of yaears later in the same catholic baptism books it is now spelt Creagh.
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Eliza Creagh 2 June 1859
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You are very lucky to have such legible parish records available.
The Fry surname is unusual.
Have you tried to research Anne Fry's roots ?
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John Creagh 4th Nov. 1855
Also the date is incorrect on Richard Creagh. It was September 1861 (not 1851)
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Here is the Marriage of Martin Creagh to Ann Fry.
It is not possible to say what the date it is recorded very badly. Feb is above and June is below.
So it's either march 1st, April 1st or May 1st 1855.
This is all I will get on your family. Its just a co-incidence that I am researching two other families from Rathdowney who were alive at the same time. Shiel and Creagh (not related).
I hope all of this was a help,
Peadar
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No marriages during Lent in 1855 so that rules out 1st March
My guess is 1st of May for wedding.
Marriage was allowed on St Patrick's Day.
Lots of weddings between Christmas & Shrove Tuesday all through the 1800's.
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Hi Megan (or anyone else looking for these people),
I was hoping we could try to solve this together as I am also stuck. I am a descendant of James McGrath/Craugh (1857-1926 Born Rathdowney and died Laois, Ireland). You said he was married to a different Mary I am wondering where you got that information because I know he was married to Mary Whelan (b. 1864 Ireland). I know this is correct because my grandfather knew James and Mary. I have the same dates of birth/death and towns in Ireland so I am pretty sure this is the correct James but now I am second guessing. Is there anything else you have found out about him that can help assure me this is the correct James?
Also, I have Martins parents as John Creagh (1801-1841) and Mary Brouthers (1801-1899) but there also seems to be a Mary Galway he was married too. Confused about that.
Final confusion ha! I have John Creagh (1801-1841)'s parents as Reverand John Bagwell Creagh (1772-1846) married to a Gertrude Miller (1780-1844). Not sure if this is correct. Anyway, if Megan or anyone else out there is looking for the same people or can confirm or deny what I have it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Holly
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Hi Megan (or anyone else looking for these people),
I was hoping we could try to solve this together as I am also stuck. I am a descendant of James McGrath/Craugh (1857-1926 Born Rathdowney and died Laois, Ireland). You said he was married to a different Mary I am wondering where you got that information because I know he was married to Mary Whelan (b. 1864 Ireland). I know this is correct because my grandfather knew James and Mary. I have the same dates of birth/death and towns in Ireland so I am pretty sure this is the correct James but now I am second guessing. Is there anything else you have found out about him that can help assure me this is the correct James?
Also, I have Martins parents as John Creagh (1801-1841) and Mary Brouthers (1801-1899) but there also seems to be a Mary Galway he was married too. Confused about that.
Final confusion ha! I have John Creagh (1801-1841)'s parents as Reverand John Bagwell Creagh (1772-1846) married to a Gertrude Miller (1780-1844). Not sure if this is correct. Anyway, if Megan or anyone else out there is looking for the same people or can confirm or deny what I have it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Holly
There are Registers posted but you'd need to check what Religion the Registers are!! Are they RC registers??
Nobody has said what Religion they were researching.
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Hi Holly,
I can give you more information as this post was from 2009. James McGrath was married to Mary Bergin only. He died in Durrow, Laois. I think you might have another James McGrath. James’ father was Martin Cragh/ McGrath who died in Ballyragget, Kilkenny.
His grandparents were John Craugh and Mary Brouthers and they immigrated to Penn Yan and died there. There is no record of John Craugh’s parents as no record exists. I search page by page of the Catholic parish registers and it’s not in there. His father could not be the Rev. you spoke about as this is a catholic family.
I hope this clears something’s up for you.
Megan
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Thanks Megan. So I have all the same information with the exception of the wife being Mary Whelan. So let me explain what I know.... everything the same as you except James McGrath (or A James McGrath haha) married my great grandmother Mary Whelan, had children with her and then divorced her for another woman. Is it possible after he divorced Mary Whelen he married Mary Bergin? If you look at Martin Creagh's Griffins evaluation you also see a John Whelan (this is the name of Mary's father) as well as a Mary Whelan (Mary's mother). That would be a huge coincidence. Do you have documentation on when James and Mary Bergin married? That might help. Are you a genealogist? Thanks for the help!
Martin Creagh's Griffith Valuation:
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1269/32504_Queens_01-G06/1660338?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/151847786/person/222035081830/facts/citation/742045784628/edit/record
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Hi Holly,
I can tell you without any doubt that James McGrath was only married to Mary Bergin. They spent their whole life in Durrow, Laois. James was a grocer and eventually his daughter and son in law took over the business and expanded it. It was called Sheeran’s
You have the wrong family. This James McGrath was born under the names James Cray in Rathdowney, Laois to Martin Cragh and Ann Fry.
Martin Cragh’s father is listed on Griffiths on Moore St in Rathdowney under the name John Creagh, so is Martin’s father in law, Samuel Fry.
Martin Cragh and Ann Fry eventually moved to Ballyragget, Kilkenny living on High St and that is where he had a bakery and went under the name McGrath. His 2 sons that did not immigrate to Penn Yan, NY were John and James. John staying on high st and James moving to Durrow.
James was bapt 8 Jul 1857 under the name James Cray in Rathdowney Catholic register. He married Mary Bergin on 30 Aug 1877 in Ballyragget, Kilkenny and he died 20 May 1926 in Durrow, Laois. They had 8 children together.
I am sorry to say that you have attached my family as yours. This is not your James McGrath, mine was never divorced. I know there are several trees on ancestry by various cousins of mine that have this family on there and that maybe where you have attached him to your family but without any doubt I can tell you that this James was never divorced and was only 20 yrs old when he got married and then went on to have 8 children so he was fairly busy. All of these dates are easily verified in the catholic parish registers and also at irishgenealogy.ie if you would like to confirm on your own.
Megan
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everything the same as you except James McGrath (or A James McGrath haha) married my great grandmother Mary Whelan, had children with her and then divorced her for another woman. Is it possible after he divorced Mary Whelen he married Mary Bergin?
The parish records posted so far in this thread appear to be RC, if so than no one got divorced. Not allowed.
Not everyone has an Ancestry subscription, Griffiths Valuation can be searched here
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
It would be very odd to have both of Mary's parents in GV.
GV only lists lease holders and property owners, it would be strange for a husband and wife to lease or own separate propertys in each name. Most, if not all women, in GV are widows or single.
Megan has posted while I was writing, confirming they were RC.
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Wow that is terrible (for me!). I really thought I did my homework on this one but it appears I must be wrong at James/Mary Whelan. Looking through I think I know what happened but it totally took me down this wrong path. So I know there is a James McGrath out there that married my Mary but it appears my Mary was confused with your Mary and my James confused with your James and they...ugggh.... starting... over. :'(
Well it was nice being part of your family for a little while. I need to go find my great grandparents. Ho hum. Take care!
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On a point of clarification and in relation to the confusion over Marys, civil records of the era indicate that baker James McGrath's wife was called Margaret Bergin rather than Mary Bergin, eg:
Marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11143/8081413.pdf
A couple of children:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02929/2073414.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02871/2052246.pdf
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I wonder if her name was shortened to Marg in the parish register and this was mistaken for Mary.
Huckleberry when and where was James McGrath and Mary Whelan's first child born? Perhaps we can help you get on to the correct family.
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...I wonder if her name was shortened to Marg in the parish register and this was mistaken for Mary.
Pretty clearly Margaret in the parish register as well (right hand page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635300#page/65/mode/1up
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Sinann that would be great but it looks like James and Mary came to the US to have their children even though I have James dying in Ireland. I am starting over so just getting my bearings..So their children in order of birth are: Maude McGrath (April 1885 Boston - no death record yet but looking), James F McGrath (21 Jan 1888 Brighton, MA but could be Woburn, MA), Eileen McGrath, my great-grandmother (23 Feb 1889 Woburn, MA - died After 1971 in Mattapan, MA), William McGrath (May 1890 Woburn, MA - 1946), and yet another Mary McGrath! (Oct 1892 Woburn, MA). For James and Mary I did have this on James (not sure it's the right james though as Mary is just listed as McGrath, not her maiden name)
Parish Variants: Francis St., St. Nicholas (without), Francis Street
Diocese: Dublin
Thanks!
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Looking at Eileen's birth, her mother Mary Whelan was born New York so they would have married in America. Have you got the marriage?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6G23-V69?i=18&cc=1536925
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Yes I just got it thanks!! Getting there in America. I wish I could figure out where in Ireland James F McGrath was from but that will take some time. It really could be anywhere. I'm just trying to start from scratch and only work with what I absolutely know and verify it with as many sources as I can.
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Did they marry 13 May 1883 New Jersey
Not allowed to see the image, have you seen it? Are both his parent's names on it? Is their an address in Ireland?
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Hmmmm I am not on Family Search so I have not seen that one yet. There is an image? I will log on and sign up for that. Yes, it appears they were married in New Jersey. So from what I found James immigrated over here (according to censuses of 1910, 20, 30 and 40 which I found) in either 1870 or 1881 (one census says 1870 the other three say 1881 so I think it's the latter). I think he met Mary Whelan here because I have found information leading me to believe she was not born in Ireland as I had thought but born in New York (city I think). Then they married in 1883 in New Jersey. I have yet to find anything with James' parents names on them. This is the dilemma.
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You have to be a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or go to a FamilySearch center. Some of their records are like that.
If you're not or can't do that perhaps it would be possible to order a marriage cert.
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Oh! Actually there is one right near me. I'm going to try to head over tomorrow if I have time. I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks soooooooooo much for your sage advice!