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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: LYNIE on Friday 27 March 09 01:14 GMT (UK)
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hi everyone...can i get some help on james snell born england died 1884 warrnambool victoria australia..he married harriet elizabeth eley b ? d? they married in england...and this is the only child i have of this couple... son named john martin snell born sudbury suffolk england d vic australia......i have all the info on the aussie side but need the info on the english side for harriett elizabeth eley ...that is all the info i have on james and harriett ..hoping you can help ...cheers lyn
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Do you have a few dates to go on?
What year was John Martin born?
Do you have James and Harrietts deaths and if so what information do they contain?
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Hi,
I'm in the same family tre as Lynie. John Martin snell was born in suffolk, Sudbury, England in 1836. He married Annie Lucas in 1962 in Warrnambool, VIC, Australia. I hope this helps.
Renae
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Anyone got any further on these pair? They are part of our tree too.
This is all I have on them. I'd love some more dates and details
James Snell was born in 1822/3 in England (probably Sudbury). He was a labourer. James Snell is shown in the 1856 Belfast census (Australia) living at William Street working as a labourer. He died in Warrnambool in 1884. He married Harriet Elizabeth Eley. His father was also called James Snell
Can anyone help?
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I dont think someone born c 1822 would have a Son born 1836?
Trees have Harriet as Harriett Elie ROWE
Do you actually have Johns Death Cert or just this Ref?
Name: Jno Snell
Death Place: Winslow, Victoria
Age: 73
Father's Name: Snell Jas
Mother's name: Hart Eley
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 10879
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Trish :)
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As Trish has pointed out, someone bc.1822 would not be having a son 1836!!
Facts are: no baptism for a John Snell bc.1836 in Sudbury, Suffolk
no marriage for given parents in England
Where did 'Sudbury, Suffolk' come from?
When, and with whom, did John arrive in Australia? (Can find no trace of him in early English census either).
The online trees give no sources for these last 2 basic facts either.
At the moment nothing adding up here in England!
Annette
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Probably way out but the Suffolk Marriage Index has
John Snell
Harriett Row
3rd March, 1837
Bruisyard.
which is miles away from Sudbury.
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or could they have changed their names.
James Wright
Harriett Ely
13th May, 1825
Gt. Cornard
a couple of miles from Sudbury.
This family are in Sudbury in 1841 and have a son John born c1837.
HO107/2/12/63
and 1851
HO107/1789/244/8
all speculation of course.
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All very very interesting, and mysterious. I hadn't spotted the anomaly with the date of James and his supposed son John Martin.
Any chance that we've found a convict?? John Martin's wife Annie was the daughter of convicts though not a convict herself
On John Martin Snell, this is all I have, which I've found looking at various other trees, so could well be inaccurate, I don't have access to any of the paid-for info like ancestory.
John Martin Snell was born in Sudbury, Suffolk in England in 1836. He worked as a labourer. He married Annie Lucas on 5th June 1862 at the Presbyterian Church in Warrnambool. His address at the time of marriage was the Temperance Hotel, Warnambool. He couldn’t sign his name, so made his mark on his marriage certificate. He died on 11th August 1909 in Winslow and was buried on 13th in Warrnambool cemetery.
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You state what you have about John Martin Snell born 1836 Sudbury, Suffolk BUT there is no trace of him there as has been explained. Where does this information of his birthplace come from?
No-one seems to be able to answer this question so where did these details come from?
Also, where does the middle name 'Martin' come from? He married and died as plain John!
Annette
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No idea where original information came from but the name "John Martin Snell" appears on lots of other trees over the internet and the sudbury link. eg:
From Ancestory
http://records.ancestry.co.uk/john_martin_snell_records.ashx?pid=110111327
From my heritage
http://www.myheritage.com/search-records?action=person&siteId=125324041&indId=10000014&origin=profile
My trees
http://www.mytrees.com/newanc/United-Kingdom/Born-1836/Sn/Snell-family/John-Snell-gr002114-112.html
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I know about the online trees but this is simply information that an individual has posted - with no sources re. the details which are crucial here and which I've already mentioned. With regard to the ancestry ones it looks like someone put the information on and others have simply copied it. What I'm trying to say is that just because you descend from John Snell and all the details from his marriage through to his death are correct with what you know, you can't assume that everything relating to him pre. his marriage his correct with no sources quoted to back it all up.
You, and others, have found these trees and clearly believe them to be correct - however, research doesn't bear the early facts out hence the questions. I live in Suffolk and that's what drew me to this thread in the first place as I always like to try to help people with interests in Suffolk.
As was pointed out earlier, the 'supposed' father James is shown on the trees as bc.1822 when he would only have been 14 when John born in 1836!! Straightaway, one big doubt! I would think this James, in the same actual place as John, is more likely to have been a brother (if indeed a relative) rather than father with only 14 years between them. Again, as already mentioned, all the Australian records I can see only shown John as plain John i.e. his marriage, births of his children and his death.
Something else that concerns me - the death details for John (posted by trish1120) states his parents as:
Snell Jas
Hart Eley
The way I read this is that his mothers surname was Hart although Eley as a Christian name seems odd (wonder if badly written Eliz for Elizabeth or Eliza). With fathers surname shown first then abbrev. Christian name you would expect his mothers details to follow in the same way namely her surname Hart and abbrev. Christian name Eley. Do you understand my reasoning? It just seems so very odd to me that this has become Harriet Eley.
We deal with questions like these so often and always tell people, don't simply accept any online tree/s you find, especially when sources are not given. ALWAYS check out the facts yourself and don't just accept what someone else says. This maxim applies to anyone researching their family.
In this particular instance, there is no baptism for a John Martin Snell (or indeed a plain John Snell) in Sudbury ca.1836, nor can anyone trace a marriage for his given (in the trees) parents. Therefore, because there is no trace, we then ask for a 'check' re. the facts and ask where this information has come from but this is resulting in a brick wall. Your information is from online trees which you are accepting is correct but the facts don't bear this out.
I really think you need to find out exactly when he arrived in Australia and see what facts are given about him. Without that information this saga will go on and on with no-one getting anywhere because they are simply quoting what's on the online trees that simply doesn't pan out (only 2 couples baptising children in Sudbury 1830/1840's namely an Abram and Catherine and a William and Elizabeth).
Annette
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Can I put a possability into the mix -
John Snell christened 12/04/1835 at Great Henny - in Essex, but only a couple of miles from Sudbury.
parents James and Sarah -source Great Henny Parish register.
Mike
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Can I put a possability into the mix -
John Snell christened 12/04/1835 at Great Henny - in Essex, but only a couple of miles from Sudbury.
parents James and Sarah -source Great Henny Parish register.
Mike
I looked into this and found James Snell married a Sarah Bocken in Bulmer.
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I was just about to put my own question about Eley/ Ely family when I came across this old thread. I have Snells and Elys on my tree from the Preston, Cockfield area. All in the Cosford District. Hilders also in the mix. Robert Snell of Preston (1842- d.1936 Rockhampton Queensland) m. Catherine Hilder b. Pakenham, Suffolk, although family from Cockfield. Emigrated to Australia abt 1883. Lots of Hilders and Snells from this part of Suffolk seem to have gone down under from 1850s onwards, probably due to farming difficulties at this time.