RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Rochdalian on Saturday 28 March 09 02:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Trying to find when and how these two families arrived in OZ.
Both families ended up in WA. The Munn's were William Henry & Charlotte with maybe two kids. They appear in the 1911 census and were in WA in 1916. The Lead's were Frederick Marmont & Dorothy Mary who married in 1910 but I can't find in the 1911 census.
Anybody got any ideas please.
Thanks
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Without ages and childrens details it is difficult ;)
Could this be a possibility?
Departed Liverpool 23 Dec 1911 for Sydney aboard the WAIMANA
Listed to Fremantle on ticket 1766 we have
MANN Mr Wm H 32 Farm Lab
MANN Mrs Charlotte 27 Wife
MANN Miss Edith 4 Child
MANN Miss Florence 2 Child
SMITH Mr Edwin 14 Student
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi,
We are not given any birth dates, but this is probably the interment of William Henry MUNN of East Fremantle. He was 67 in 1948. Does that sound right?
The lease grant, as you see, is to Charlotte Munn.
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php
enter Munn in Search
The LEAD's are there too
Sue
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A check of the WA PO Directories shows clear entries for
FREDERICK M. LEAD from 1914 at
113 Broome St. Hightgate Hill
There is nothing in 1912.
In 1913 this ..
Lead, Fred. W. fitter. Whim Ck.
Sue
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Australian Electoral Roll 1916 WA
MUNN Charlotte Loton Street, Meekering Married
MUNN William Henry Loton Street Meekering Farm hand
1925
MUNN Charlotte Cowaramup Married
MUNN William Cowaramup Settler
1936
MUNN Charlotte Donnybrook Home duties
MUNN William Henry Donnybrook Labourer
Possible Marriages for daus
MUNN Edith H
SMITH John R
District Sussex Reg#20 1927
MUNN Florence
JOYCE Robert H
District Sussex Reg#21 1929
Death
MUNN William H
Fremantle Reg#27 1948
Marriage :-\
MUNN Charlotte
McKINNON John
Fremantle Reg#268 1951
and
Burial record
MCKINNON Charlotte [Lottie]
62 years died 14 Nov 1951 at Coogee Beach.
Dates of birth for Charlotte have a difference of 5 years. :-\
Cheers
Cando
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There are a couple of WW2 service histories .
One for Simpson, Yvonne, Jessie [AKA Yvonne Jessie LEAD]
DOB 1917 POB Perth
Another for LEAD, Stanley Frederick. DOB 1908. POB Birmingham, NOK DOROTHY.
This man was living in QLD.
Sue
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Thanks everybody, they are certainly the right families. That's in spite of my omission of DOB etc.
And Kris, I checked Munn, Munns, Munt, Munts but never thought of MANN. That just shows the value of this site there is always someone who can think further outside the square than me. Any idea what LEAD could have been transcribed as that I haven't thought of? ::)
Just to clarify I have: William Henry Munn b. c1880, wife Charlotte nee Smith b. 13 Jan 1884 Surrey. Frederick Marmont Lead b. c1879 Birmingham. Sorry 'bout that. :-[
Cheers
Bob
Thanks again
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Hi Cando,
Poor Charlotte died the year of her seocnd marriage.
That's a bit sad :( :( :(
Wonder if her true age was revealed at that time
Sue
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Australian Electoral Roll 1925
JOYCE Robert Hastings Newton Road, Spearwood Farmer
1936
JOYCE Florence 15 Fraser Street East Fremantle Married
JOYCE Robert Hastings 15 Fraser Street East Fremantle Bricklayer
They are buried at the Fremantle Cemetery. Robert died aged 89 on 15 March 1987 and Florence aged 95 on 16 Mar 2004.
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
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Two Frederick M's on the WA Electoral Roll with a Dorothy at both years and addresses
Australian Electoral Roll 1916
LEAD Dorothy 113 Broome Street, North Perth HD
LEAD Frederick Marmaduke Alfred 113 Broome Street, North Perth Engineer
1936
LEAD Dorothy Alice Kate 60 Alexandra Road, East Fremantle HD
LEAD Dorothy May 60 Alexandra Road, East Fremantle HD
LEAD Frederick Marmont 60 Alexandra Road, East Fremantle Carrier
Dorothy May aged 86 died 25 Feb 1980 and Frederick Marmont aged 68 died 18 Aug 1952. Ashes scattered at Karrakatta.
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There are two passenger records in the name of LADE Liverpool to Adelaide SA in 1912.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Bob,
You have got me with your LEAD's. Very few people I can find on passenger lists with names similar. Such a few years where they must be too with first reference located in WA being 1914
Sorry I can't find them
Kris :)
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Thanks for trying Kris. I had 10 credits left on findmypast so I spent 5 and looked at the transcript for LADE that Cando mentioned and it was a Mr, Mrs and Master Lade. Could be them I suppose with Master being Stanley b. 1908 (as mentioned by Sue). The jury is still out on this one I think.
As you say there are not many Leads or similar.
Cheers
Bob
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There are these LEAD births in WA -
LEAD Dorothy A K [On 1936 Electoral Roll]
Perth Reg#1298 1913
LEAD Frederick M
Perth Reg# 1069 1915
LEAD Yvonne J
Perth Reg#425 1917
LEAD Richard M
Perth Reg#2300 1918
LEAD Alice
Perth Reg#1530 1929
Marriages
LEAD Dorothy
MUNN Gordon R
Fremantle Reg#419 1940
LEAD Yvonne J
SIMPSON Clifford
Perth Reg# 143 1943
Dorothy Alice MUNN aged 80 died on 19 Jun 1994 and Gordon Ryan MUNN aged 81 died on 1 Nov 1998. There ashes were taken from Karrakatta.
Yvonne Jessie SIMPSON aged 83 died 29 Apr 2000 and Clifford Stuart SIMPSON aged 83 died 3 Aug 1999. Their ashes were taken from Karrakatta.
Deaths
LEAD Frederick M
District Fremantle Reg#225 1952
LEAD Richard M
District Perth Reg#1010 1918
Cando
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There are these LEAD births in WA - cando
And this is the one, which is the serviceman mentioned above, in England
Births June 1/4 1908
Lead, Stanley Frederick @ King's N. Vol 6c Pg443
Sue
ADDING: However, if the marriage of FREDERICK & DOROTHY [which I cannot see onfreebmd] took place in 1910, it looks as if he is a little 'early' to be their child
WAS the marriage you refer to in England
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Hi Sue
The lady I am doing this for told me that the marriage took place in London in June 1910, I will have to check with her.
I get a feeling that there is something funny with this family. ::)
Any idea where King's N is.
Thanks
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Kings Norton is on the border of Worcestershire, Warwickshire, Staffordshire. I suspect Stanley is a red herring. I found this family yesterday to fit. Family arrive 1913 Sydney aboard the Zealandic (I think I saw something about on to Brisbane) Parents Henry and Mrs A LEAD. After a lot of fooling about I believe I found them in 1911 in Kings Norton District Worcestershire. Children change their names a bit Mum is Amy. Stanley is listed as Frederick. ;)
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks Kris, I'll pass all the info on and also see if I can get any clarification on a few dates.
I think overall she will be pleased, as you Chatters have come up trumps again.
Thanks
Bob
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I can't figure it out Bob,
I do agree that something is not right here :-\
The marriage is said to have taken place in June 1910 yet I don't see it. I have checked the images for 1910 and there is no Frederick LEAD listed. There is however a Frederick Montague LEAD married in Brentwood (Middlesex) Sep 1908 3a 113. Wife Amy Adelaide GREEN or Adelaide Lillian I LILL
Kris :)
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OK Cancel that - there is a Frederick Montague LEAD b Brentford 1874. There is also a Frederick Marmont LEAD b Kings Norton 1880, so we are back to Kings Norton............Kris :)
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OK given that Frederick LEAD aged 21 unm b Birmingham is at 73 Mulberry in Mt Pleasant Liverpool Lancashire in 1901. He is a ships carpenter. RG13/3418 Folio 11 Page 13
1891 he is with his grandmother in Kings Norton
RG12/2353 Folio 8 Page 10
LEAD Mary A 66 Widow b London Tailoress
LEAD Jane h Dau 29 Unm b Edgbaston Birmingham Upholsterer
LEAD Alice Dau 27 Unm b Edgbaston Upholsterer
SPILLER Oscar P Grandson 13 b Edgbaston Errant Boy
LEAD Frederick M Grandson 11 b Edgbaston Scholar
LEAD Emma sister in law 60 Unm b Worcester
COPELAND Nellie J Lidger 2 b Balsall Heath
1881 RG11/2957 Folio 14 Page 23 he is with his grandmother and extended family - married daughter Elizabeth Spiller and her children plus unmarried daughters Jane Kate 21 and Alice 19 along with grandson Frederick 1, so it appears he may be illegitimate.
Kris :)
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Morning All,
There is a digitised ww2 record for GORDON RYAN MUNN.
He was still single when he joined in 1939 [per cando's marrige find] and so lists his father as Next of Kin.
There is an address for father William Henry which is different from his electoral location in 1936
6 Frederick Street Nth Fremantle.
Gordon lives in Bridgetown.
It would appear to confirm GORDON as a child of William.
ADDING, here is his birth. I should have looked for it first
MUNN, GORDON R. Male @ PERTH reg 498 in 1918
Sue
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Hi Kris,
Yes definitely irrelevant LEAD lead there ;D
Sorry, couldn't help myself
:-X
You've sorted it clearly
Sue
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Yes definitely irrelevant LEAD lead there ;D
Sorry, couldn't help myself
:-X
;D
Problem is still that although they are in WA we still don't know, who she was, where they married or how they got to WA. I keep hunting for the marriage, 1911, or passenger list and just can't find a thing. I think we need to know more about who Dorothy was........Kris :-\
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Let's pop this in to add to the confusion ;D
In NSW Marriage..
19336/1945 LEAD, FREDERICK MARMONT to LEASK, JAYE KATRINA@ SYDNEY
19336/1945 LEAD, FREDERICK MARMONT to LEASK, JOYCE KATRINA @ SYDNEY
Sue
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And this....
Deaths in NSW
26177/1948 LEAD, BRIAN father FREDERICK MARMONT mother JAYE KATRINA ANNANDALE
25127/1978 LEAD, FREDERICK MARMONT father FREDERICK MARMONT mother DOROTHY M ARY
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Hi All
Just got back to the pewter and blimey!!
Thanks so much for all the info. The lady who asked for this tells me that Fred's wife was Dorothy Mary Browne and they married in London 1910, some of that I have already mentioned I think. Also that Fred's cousin Henry Lead & wife Amy and little girls Ida and Ena migrated to Queensland.
Bob
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And this....
Deaths in NSW
26177/1948 LEAD, BRIAN father FREDERICK MARMONT mother JAYE KATRINA ANNANDALE
25127/1978 LEAD, FREDERICK MARMONT father FREDERICK MARMONT mother DOROTHY M ARY
Perhaps this is Frederick M born 1915
LEAD Frederick M
Perth Reg# 1069 1915
Cando
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Thanks Cando, sure looks like Fred jnr.
Seeing as it appears to be impossible to find the LEAD families arrival I'm leaning towards the LADE family (see reply #12) with Master LADE being Stanley Frederick LEAD. I don't think I'll commit to paper just yet though.
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Stanley Frederick is not their son. He is the child of Fredericks cousins Henry and Amy from Kings Norton. Stanley arrived in Queensland in 1913 with his family. reply #16
Still no sign of the alleged marriage in England for Frederick and Dorothy even with the name Browne. It just is not listed. I don't see them in 1911 and I can't find an immigration for them :'(
Kris :)
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Hi All,
I live in Perth, WA.
My father was born in 1934 to Robert & Catherine Lauchlan of Bridgetown, WA, Australia. I'm pretty sure my grandparents owned an orchard on Tweed St, Bridgetown. My grandfather's family arrived in Australia around 1909. My grandmother's maiden name was Catherine Munn.
My father told me he used to catch the train to Fremantle to visit his grandfather in the 1940s but didn't see him again in any other decade. My grandmother's brother's name was Gordon.
I can trace my grandfather's family back a few generations but until I read this thread I had no inkling as to a possible name for my great grandparents.
I have a suspicion that William Henry & Charlotte Munn are my great grandparents. My father is the first born and named William Robert but goes by the name Doug. Robert is a family name among the Lauchlan's but William has always seemed out of place. It would make sense if he was named for Catherine's father.
Does anyone have more information on the origin of William Henry and Charlotte? I'd very much appreciate it.
Thanks.
Rob
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Doing some more research on this.
See attached Death Notice for W. H. Munn. It's a shame that my Grandfather Bob Lauchlan also died in 1948.
Entries are:
MUNN: On January 20, at Fremantle Hospital, William Henry, dearly loved husband of Charlotte Munn, loved father of Edith, Florry, Cath, Dick, Harry, Gordon, Kit, Vi, and Stella, father-in-law of Jack, Rob, Bob, Bert, Petra, Dorothy, Harold, Tiny and Ted, also devoted grandfather to his loved 22 grandchildren.
MUNN (W. H.): In affectionate memory of our darling father and Pa of Bob and Tom Joyce, passed away, at Fremantle, on January 20, 1948. Inserted by his loving daughter and son-in-law. Flo and rob Joyce.
MUNN (W. H.): In loving memory of our darling Dad, passed peacefully away January 20, 1948, devoted Pa of Doug, Helen, Eilleen, Margaret, David. Inserted by his loving daughter and son-in-law, Cath and Bob Lauchlan.
MUNN (W. H.): In loving memory of our darling Dad, passed peacefully away on January 20, 1948, devoted Pa of Lynette and Kenneth. Inserted by his loving daughter Kitty and son-in-law Harold Pratt.
MUNN (W. H.): A sincere tribute to our dear friend. Bill, who fell asleep January 20. Always remembered by Charlie May and Rowling family.