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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: ulysses on Thursday 02 April 09 02:08 BST (UK)
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Is any one researching the BAKER family in NSW as early as 1837?
I have Robert Baker, spouse Eliza (maiden name unknown possibly LEVI?).
Their son Charles (Chas) Levi BAKER born NSW 1837?
Trying to track down any of these people in NSW and determine their arrival in Australia. Have information on Charles Levi Baker if anyone is interested.
Thankyou, any information would be greatfully acknowleged.
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Dear Ulysses,
I have just checked the NSW BDM for Charles Baker's birth but he is not listed.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
Are you sure he was born in NSW?
Cheers
Susie
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Thanks Susie,
I have searched SA, VIC, and NSW, and he can't be found. Neither can his parents, so I am at a bit of a loss as to know where to turn next?
Thanks for your assistance anyway.
Cheers,
ulysses
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Dear Ulysses,
I have just searched the Qld and Tasmanian Indexes to no avail, and the WA records for births don't start until 1841. Do you have a birth certificate for him?
Cheers
Susie
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Hi Susie,
No, sorry, I only wish. I have marriage certificate, which says born Sydney NSW 1837, married Kyenton Vic. 1863 residence Green Hills Ararat Victoria. His life from there on, I have pretty much documented, but his beginnings are shrouded in mystery?
Should I just give up on this one? Is it too hard? I'll probably never know.
Cheers,
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Ulysees, Does the birth cert. say where in sydney he was born?
charlotte
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Hi Charlotte,
Unfortunately not, just Sydney NSW, 1837?
Cheers,
ulysses
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Dear Ulysses,
Just had a thought........not sure how to check it out, but perhaps he was born on Norfolk Island. I am not sure how those births were documented, but it could be a possibility. Maybe ask (in another post) for how Norfolk Island births were recorded.
Cheers
Susie
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Thanks Susie,
I hadn't thought of that. It's probably worth following up.
Thanks again,
Cheers,
Ulysses
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Susie, as it maddeningly just says Sydney, it's not likely it's Norfolk Isl though :-\
There are musters for those early years in NSW I believe... maybe someone can tell you about them?
Scrapping the barrel...
charlotte
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.....another thought.......how were shipboard births registered when they arrived????? I know some say "at sea"....could he have assumed Sydney and was born on the journey??? If that is the case, you might need to find his parents journey.......I am hopeless at ship records......my eyes just glaze over!
Cheers
Susie
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Ulysses, have you got Charles's death certificate? The information on it might not be accurate but you could get a helpful hint depending on who gave the info...e.g. might tell you how long in the colonies, different birthplace etc.
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Thanks Susie,
That's a couple of avenues to explore. I agree shipping lists are hard work!
Cheers,
Ulysses
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In looking for Charles I see he was buried at Lockwood Cem, Vic, in 1891 - this page states he is buried with three infant children, and a free photograph of the stone is available on request:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Lockwood.htm
...you probably already have this info but just in case you haven't, I thought I'd post it :)
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Thanks Prue,
Yes, I do have this information, but only recently, and we never knew that there was a headstone, so it was a nice discovery. I' ll have to search for the death certificate, which I think I have?
Thanks for your help.
Ulysses
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Hi All,
Umm, re ship board births, I can offer following, but tis ten years earlier. Baby born onboard "Elizabeth" on 3 April 1827. Ship arrives 7 April 1827 to Sydney. Baby christened by Wesleyan rites 22 April 1827. In letters to Col Secretary by baby's father, he refers (in an aside) to that baby born "just off the coast of NSW". By 1828 Census baby is noted as born in the colony. I have found image of christening rego at State Library in Sydney. It indicates that the Wesleyan info was then transmitted to Rev Cowper (C of E) for inclusion in the Established church's registry book.
Perhaps similar pattern may be found to help with Ulysses search for Charles Levi Baker in Sydney NSW 1837 - Does anyone have clues for "Levi" - eg any Hebrew registration online sites perhaps? -
Umm, I am not sure when Col Sec recognised non C of E registrations directly ie without needing to be transmitted from the church/synogue to C of E. I do know that it was not until mid 1850's that bdm registrations were administered by civil regulations.
Sorry if I am providing too much detail of the processes and practices without actually helping to locate Ulysses Charles Levi BAKER's birth rego.
Cheers, MA
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Thanks Prue,
Yes, I do have this information, but only recently, and we never knew that there was a headstone, so it was a nice discovery. I' ll have to search for the death certificate, which I think I have?
Thanks for your help.
Ulysses
Hi Ulysses -
In case you haven't the death cert - you need the reg# to purchase - cheaper to purchase an image online
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Death
BAKER Charles Levi
Parents unknown 55 years at Lockwood 1891 Ref#16217
There are eight births to Charles and wife Emma SINGLE between 1864 and 1886 on the Vic indexes. Birth certificates of the children in Vic usually detail the place of birth of the parents. If the death cert is not more informative, perhaps downloading a couple of the birth certs may give information.
If there is a place of birth on Charles death cert perhaps a search of appropriate parish records may help you further.
Cheers
Cando
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Thankyou for your advice. I have followed up on the Death certificate. Place of death states Yass, New South Wales. This is in contrast to the marriage certificate which says Sydney NSW. Which of the two would be more reliable, if either? I have followed up and tried to find the birth through Dept Justice NSW, and no luck.
I will start looking up birth certificates for the children. I know of up to 12 or 13. At least three to four died in infancy.
Thanks again.
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Does anyone have the capacity to confirm any of these births. I don't have access to Victorian indexes. Department of Justice don't appear to have any of these births in their records?
Children of Charles Levi BAKER and Emma Single are:
i. Charles Levi BAKER b. 1864 Ararat, Victoria
? Elizabeth BAKER b. unknown d. unknown
ii. Thomas Edward BAKER b. 1867 buried. 26 February 1868 age 7 months, buried Lockwood, Victoria
iii. Thomas BAKER B. 1869 d. unknown
iv Robert BAKER b. 1871 d. 26 September 1916 age 45
v. William BAKER b. 1873 d. unknown
vi. Emily BAKER b. 1875 d. 27 April 1945 age 72 m. Charles Gibson WATT (Smith)
vii. Henry BAKER b. 1877 d. unknown
viii. John BAKER b. 1879 buried. 23 September 1883 age 4 years buried Lockwood, Victoria
ix. Elizabeth BAKER b. 1883 (married name McKenzie)
x. Matilda BAKER b. 1886 d. 1960? (Tilly) married Robert McWilliam (lived Mildura, Victoria)
xi. Ellen May BAKER b. 1889 buried. 8 November 1889 age 6 months Lockwood Victoria
xii. Clara Marian BAKER b. 1891 d. unknown
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If you search the online Vic bdm's using just BAKER, births and mother's maiden surname SINGLE you should get a message
You may view 10 matching records as 1 separate pages.
I use minimum info when searching their database. Use to frustrate me endlessly.
BAKER Charles Levi
Father Charles Levi Mother Emma SINGLE
Ararat 1864 Reg#6282
BAKER Thomas Edward
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Kangaroo Flat 1869 Reg#2959
BAKER Robert
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Lockwood 1871 Reg#10010
BAKER Emily
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Lockwood 1875 Reg#10099
BAKER Henry
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Lockwood 1877 Reg# 23405
BAKER: John
Father Charles Mother Emily SINGLE
Lockwood 18879 Reg#17466
BAKER Elizabeth
Father Charles Mother Emily SINGLE
Lockwood 1883 Reg#1786
BAKER Matilda
Father Charles Mother Emily SINGLE
Lockwood 1886 Reg#4104
Cheers
Cando
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BAKER Ellen May
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Lockwood 1889 Reg#13905
BAKER Clara Marion
Father Charles Mother Emma SINGLE
Lockwood 1891 Reg#4630
Cando
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Thankyou Cando!
Why wouldn't I be able to trace these through Victorian Department of Justice? How do I obtain the full birth certificates if I can't trace them there? Do the registered numbers only pertain to Indexes, or are they the Registered birth numbers?
Thanks again for your help. I reall appreciate your time and assistance.
Ulysses
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Thankyou Cando!
Why wouldn't I be able to trace these through Victorian Department of Justice? How do I obtain the full birth certificates if I can't trace them there? Do the registered numbers only pertain to Indexes, or are they the Registered birth numbers?
Thanks again for your help. I reall appreciate your time and assistance.
Ulysses
Use minumum info when searching....detailed in reply#19.
You may purchase online either an image of the registration of the full birth registration which would be mailed to you. The image is a cheaper option at $17.50.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
For family history purposes I consider the downloaded image of the registration is sufficient.
The numbers are the registered birth numbers on both the online database and indexes on CD. You need this number to purchase online.
Good luck ;D
Cando
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Thanks Cando,
I have downloaded previously from the site, but for some reason my searches in this instance comes up with 0 nothing? I think this site might have a few glitches. I seem to recall having trouble on previous occasions. I shall keep trying.
Thanks again,
Ulysses
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Yes agree it can be frustrating, however I did a search this am before posting the birth info and as I detailed previously this is the message I received on the site as a search result
You may view 10 matching records as 1 separate pages.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando,
I managed to download 2 certificates, the first child, Charles Levi b. 1864, indicates father born Sydney, NSW.
Emily, b. 1875 Lockwood (my ancestor), also indicates Sydney NSW. No other clues.
I don't think I can afford to keep going if it's going to give me the same answer.
If nothing else, at least now I know their first child Charles levi was born, Pleasant Creek Road, Ararat 1864. Occupation, splitter? I assume this would be log splitter?
This might lead to something... could chase up in Ararat or Stawell.
The website seems to be very hit or miss, very frustrating!
You would think if they had 10 living children, there would be someone else out there chasing them up?
Cheers,
Ulysses
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Hi Ulysses,
I think your thoughts about Log splitter may be perhaps right, perhaps for splitting timber for the sawing up of underground mines and etc in that part of Victoria.
Re your comments about "someone else out there chasing them up", umm, sometimes their male descendants enlisted and never made it back to Oz, and also I understand that it is only in recent times that equal consideration has been given to genie tree searches on both maternal and paternal lines, apparently even in 1970's and 80's it was more important to get the "pedigree" for the paternal line only. Hope I am not perpetuating an urban myth about that.
Cheers, MA
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It is possible that the birth was never registered or when registration was handed from the church to the State government records were lost
this link to N.S.W. department explains it very well
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyRecords.htm
Another avenue to explore is perhaps an obitiuary notice from the local paper of the time,
kind thoughts Jenn
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I am the great granddaughter of Matilda Baker daughter of Charles Levi Baker. Looking for history