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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: shell2803 on Thursday 02 April 09 09:21 BST (UK)
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Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with my husbands family tree. His Great grandfather was Alfred Greaves born in Yorkshire about 1883 he was a stone mason he married Amelia Fitton. His father was James Greaves born about 1856 in Westmoreland he was also a stonemason he married a Margaret Jane ? I can not trace them beyond the 1901 census they have just vanished, any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Dear shell2803
Alfred Greaves married Amelia Fitton JQ 1910 Prestwich Lancs 8d 592
You need to search 1911 census.
I did a basic search and I can see an Amelia Greaves aged 23 listed in Prestwich Lancs. Also an Alfred Greaves born age 28 is listed in Prestwich
http://www.1911census.co.uk/ -this is a pay per view website.
Hope this helps
Sue
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Hello Shell
Free BMD have two male births in Rochdale with the surname Greaves and the mothers maiden name of Fitton.
One in 1920 and the other in 1923.
I won't name them here in case either are still alive.
Carol
And a Hilda H born in Oldham in 1915-is she yours too?
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The family are recorded as 'Graves' in 1891:
Great Marsden and Little Marsden, Lancashire
James Graves 36 Stonemason Kirkby Lonsdale
Margt. Jane Graves 31
Mary Jane Graves 12
John Graves 11
Alfred Graves 9
Isabel Cockett Graves 8
William Glencross Graves 4
Harry Graves 2
Margaret Jane and children all born in Hawes
census ref: Class: RG12/ Piece: 3376/ Folio 15/Page 16
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Births of the children were registered in Aysgarth district (which includes Hawes) with the surname GRAVES, and James GRAVES married Margaret Jane COCKETT in Aysgarth district in 1878. (From FreeBMD)
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In 1881 the family name is shown as GROVES:
Hawes, Yorkshire
James Groves 25 Stonemason Westmorland, Greta Bridge,
Margaret Jane Groves 21 Hawes
Mary Jane Groves 2 Hawes
Isabel Cockett Groves 1 Hawes
census ref: Class: RG11/Piece: 4876/ Folio: 27/Page: 13
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Ancestry's England and Wales Christening records database shows
James GROVES son of William Glencross GROVES and Mary, baptised 9 May 1855 at Kirkby Lonsdale.
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Thankyou so much Gallium.... Ive wated loads of money looking for greaves on the census at long shots. Its definetely the right family just didnt realise or think to look for a surname change. Im new to all this family tree stuff and you've helped me out loads. Is it common for a surname change and do you have any ideas as to why they would have changed. Thanks again Michelle!!
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Willam Glencross GROVES married Mary SHARP
June 1840,
Kendal,
25 545
Trish
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The surname is recorded as both GROVES and GRAVES for the children of William Glencross and Mary. You can see baptisms on the International Genealogical Index (IGI) at:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
These are transcriptions from original parish records, which may have been hard to read, so it isn't clear which name is actually used by the family.
Possible that if it was GRAVES, James and Margaret Jane decided that they didn't really like the associations of that word (people did/do change their name because they just didn't/don't like it) - but why they would choose Greaves rather than Groves I don't know.
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Looks like occp stonemason ran in Family ;D
Looks to be correct family as ages and names are the same as IGi christenings to Wm and Mary .
1861 Census
16 Greeta Bridge
Catsfield RG9/3162/15/11
William, head,mar,49, stonemason, born Ulverstone,LANCS
Mary, wife,mar,47 Firbeck? Westmoreland
Joseph, son, un, 18, stonemason , born Kirkby Lonsdale
William, son, un, 13, scholar " " "
Mary, dau, un,11, scholar " " "
Jane, dau,un,8,scholar " " "
JAMES, son, un, 6, scholar Lancashire, Catsfield
John, son,un, 3 " "
Trish
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Thanks for the info everyone ....... made my day!!!! :)
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You are very welcome ;D ;D
1851
149 Fairbank St HO107/2441/532/35
Kirby Lonsdale
William 39 and Mary 37 are under GRAVES, with children below.
William is a Master sonemason.
Elizabeth,9
Joseph,8
Agnes,4
William,2
Mary,1
Children all born Kirby Lonsdale
Mary in Firbeck and Wm in Ulverstone
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Hi,
I don't suppose anyone knows where William Glencross groves/graves and Mary Sharp are in 1841 census, can't seem to find them ? Also can anyone tell me who there fathers are on there marriage certificate of 1840
Thanks,
Shell
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1841
Fairbank, Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland
William Groves 25 Stonemason
Mary Groves 25
George Groves 5
All born in Westmorland
The 1841 census did not record the relationship of people to the head of household, as later censuses do, so there is nothing to indicate whether George* is the child of either William or Mary, or whether he is perhaps a nephew staying with them.
Unfortunately you can't see the marriage certificate without buying it.
[If you haven't bought a certificate before, they cost £7 from the General Register Office (GRO). They can be ordered online from the GRO website:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Once you have registered and got to the ordering stage, answer 'yes' to the question 'Is the General Register Office Index known?'. Later you will be asked for the volume and page number from the GRO index for the certificate you want. You can search the index free at:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
and this will tell you the reference number. It is important to get the right reference, so although FreeBMD's transcriptions are very good, it is best to check the original page image, which you can do on FreeBMD by clicking on the little pair of specs at the end of the index line.]
The only alternative to buying the certificate would be finding the parish register entry for the marriage - which (as it's after 1837) will also give you the father's names. The parish registers will be at Cumbria Archives:
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/recordoffices/knrec.asp
Most archives will supply copies by post. Prices vary, but it can be cheaper than getting the certificate.
BTW - it looks as though William was married previously:
Marriage at Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland 15 November 1834
William Glencross Groves
Frances Chapman
(from Ancestry's parish record collection)
*
I've just checked the IGI for George Groves - there's one christened 1835 at Kirkby Lonsdale, son of William and Fanny Groves.
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Thank you for all the info. Very grateful.
Regards,
Michelle
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Hi,
Does anyone know how I could find out who William Glencross Groves/Graves/Greaves fathers was before the 1841 census. Also the stonemasons seem to run in the family from generation to generation, does anybody know how you could find out what they helped build, carve etc ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Shell
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Using William's middle name as a likely clue to his mother's maiden name - there's a marriage on the familysearch site of George GREAVES and Elizabeth GLENCROSS ar Ulverstone, Lancashire on 5 December 1809,
Also on the familysearch site is a William GREAVES s/o Geo. GREAVES born 13 January 1811 and baptised 10 February 1811 at Ulverston. This would fit in nicely with the details of William in the 1861 census given by trish (2 April 2009).
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Thank you so much. Your brilliant! I think it's amazing how you can find these things. Can you give me any advise on where to look i.e is it worth having a membership on Ancestry.co.uk or are there better/other sites?
Thanks again,
Shell
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Hi,
With a lot of help from you guys to trace my Greaves family back to Westmorland/Lancashire. It turns out Stonemasons run in the family with my 3 x great grandfather William Glencross Greaves of Ulverston being a master stonemason. Is there any way of finding out what they helped built?
Thanks,
Shell
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Hello, I haven't been here for quite a while but I would really appreciate any help at all. I have been trying for the last year (and wasting money) to track down my 5x great grandad, George Greaves mother and father but I can't!!! I know he married Elizabeth Glencross at Ulverston 1807, I have a pallot record but the only info on it is he's a 'Waller' which would fit perfectly as every generation after him were stonemasons. I found a record on LANCAT that says he was 25 years old when he married Elizabeth but then it seems Elizabeth died in ulverston in 1816 and he remarried an ellinor the same year in ulverston but aged 32, his occupation Waller. It also seems he died in ulverston 1839. So it would make his birth 1782-1784? But I can find nothing in ulverston? I emailed the parish to see if theres any sort of marriage certificate for a father's name but no reply. Im hoping the wallers/stonemasons continue even further back than George. Please help me as its driving me insane x