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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: skyblueFF on Friday 03 April 09 08:47 BST (UK)
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Hello
Could any of you Liverpool experts please tell me anything about cowkeepers in Liverpool. It would seem that there was quite a tradition of people going to Liverpool from the Lune Valley area of Westmorland and West Riding and becoming cowkeepers. They also took local people with them as servants.
My GGF Edward Capstick was a Butcher and cowkeeper at 98 Admiral Street, Liverpool in the late 1800s.
Thank you.
Michael
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Hi, I found this explanation of the occupation:
COWKEEPER one who kept one or more cows in cities when a cow was kept in the back yard of a house, providing milk which was sold; forerunner of the local dairy OCCUPATION
Jackie
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Michael,
I also have a 2xgreat grandfather who was a cow keeper in Liverpool (although he only moved from just up the road in Ormskirk !). By 1901 one of his duaghters who evidently continued the tradition was described in the census as "Cow Keeper & Milk Seller" which probably better describes the purpose of the occupation.
I wouldn't have thought it a uniqeuly Liverpool tradition? As the cities grew rapidly during the mid-late C19 the population had to be fed and there was neither the transport infrastructure or storage technology to ship and keep especially perishable goods.
As the railways improved the "milk trains" beagn to be used to move fresh milk from rural areas to some of the cities, for example.
But even through the Edwardian era livestock were kept on what would then have been city fringes; the cities only really ballooned into "suburbia" with the advent of public transport (especially tram systems).
In the mid to late C19 Admiral Street would have been close to the edge of any high-density development - Toxteth Park was still just that 50 years earlier!
IG
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ig & Jackie
you have cleared up what has been a mystery to me for some years :)regarding cows in Liverpool.I do a lot of look-up in the postal directories for Liverpool.In the earlier ones
i have many times come across as an occupation,cowkeeper.
Where would they keep a cow in a growing city ??? silly thought really but i was under the impression that cowkeepers wouldn't be able to live in the outback of liverpool as farmers.Then again i don't know any history out of the city ;)
Celia
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Hi
My husbands grandparents were cowkeepers and had a dairy in Lambeth Rd Liverpool prior to WW2 when it was bombed
When I was growing up in Liverpool in the 1950's there was a dairy in Attwood St just off Sleepers Hill where they had cows in the back yard. We used to love peeping over the gates to see them
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small dairies often comprised one or two cow sheds/stalls, a cobbled yard, a small shop with the dairyman's living accommodation above. you could take a jug and buy milk from the shop. the dairy would serve the local neighbourhood with milk and eggs. some dairymen would have horse and cart, others would deliver using a hand cart. the dairies were very common in liverpool.
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I too have a relative who was a cowkeeper in Liverpool. In the 1881 census he was a joiner living in Parbold, however by 1891 he was living in Hare Street, Hare Place Court and was listed as a cowkeeper milk. I had heard family stories of him being a dairyman. I love all the above replies as it builds a picture of life then, however in todays age I dont think I would like my neighbours to keep cows in their back garden :o
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Hello
Thanks for the interesting replies. I am beginning to picture Liverpool as a very messy and smelly place with all those cows in the streets. I would love to see some photographs if anyone has any. I haven't been able to find any on the old photo sites.
Michael
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Of course as well as the smell which I am sure the residents were quite used to - the other problem was the the milk they supplied spead the rampant TB epidemics. Jackie
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/mar/26/george-scharf-london-john-soane
I've been told that this scene would be typical, with cows in the back and a counter to sell the milk at the front.
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I lived off Lower Breck Road in 40s and 50s and I remember a small dairy called Metcalfs at the bottom of Grange Street. They had a cow in the yard at the back. I am glad I spotted this post, as no one else in the family remember it and reckon I was making it up. Anne
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Hello
Thanks for the interesting replies. I am beginning to picture Liverpool as a very messy and smelly place with all those cows in the streets. I would love to see some photographs if anyone has any. I haven't been able to find any on the old photo sites.
Michael
Hi Michael
I have a Francis Roberts who is listed as a cowkeeper on 4-8 Garmoyle Road, Toxteth in 1891. I recently looked on Google Street view to see if I could find a picture of the house. It looks like the "barn" is still there. amazing!
Its right at the North West end of Garmoyle Road if you want to check it out.
Heather
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Immigrant Welsh builders constructed the terraced houses around County Road and Walton Lane during the last years of the 19th century. The Welsh brothers who financed and built them named the streets by using the initial letter of each spelling out their own names.
Owen and William Owen Elias are revealed, also I believe one of their sons was also added - Alfred
Oxton, Winslow, Eton, Neston, Andrew, Nimrod, Dane, Wilburn, Ismay, Lind, Lowel, Index, Arnot, Makin, Olney, Weldon, Euston, Nixon, Liston, Imrie, Aston Streets and Stuart Road. (I may have missed a few out there)
When these were built apparently provision was made for a Cowkeeper in each of these streets.
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;D
Interesting thread.
I took this photo in Keble Road Bootle about 5 years ago, the building (painted Green) with the big gates is on the 1891, 1901 census and later directories, the name on the 1901 census who occupied the building was Thomas Hindle - Cowkeeper, you can see the old cow shed in the background just peeping over the gates, it was in a bad way back then, but has since been fixed, the house is now 3 flats, but this is just an example of what other premises that cowkeepers had.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/jan44/keble.jpg)
Jan
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Hi Jan, I thought mention of the Welsh builders would attract you ;D This was mentioned in the talk given at the Liverpool FHS this week, about T J Hughes, but the story started further back with his mother Ann, who began trading in Old Hall Street. When the houses were built in Walton, together with the shops, she was first to grab one of the most prominent, now where Ethel Austin's is on County Road.
Good pic of Keble Road.
Mary
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;D
Hi Mary,
Thanks for the comment on the pic, the house painted red next door is my old place, the old cow shed was part of my back yard wall! All the houses on that side of Keble besides the old cowkeepers place and another house the other end, are all boarded up and waiting for demolition now, such a shame, a lot of history being lost and destroyed.
Jan
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My Grandfather Thomas Mawer was a cowkeeper at 3 Dalton Street, near to where the Royal Liverpool Hospital is now.
His family originally came from Lancashire/Yorkshire border area, apparently there were quite a lot of them in Liverpool, West Derby area.
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A big thank you to all who have responded to my post, It's all helping to build up a picture.
Michael
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Just thought I would stick in my twopeneth!. Prewar and just after there was a small dairy in Glamis Road just opposite where Witton Road meets it. Glamis is off Marlborough Rd, Tuebrook.
There was a small field and quite a big shippen which was behind the shop. They did the bottle washing and filling in sheds in a yard. Bottles had those deadly cardboard caps.
There were six cows which lived in the field and were brought into the shippen for milking and extra feed from hay which was on the 2nd. floor and fed through trap doors to the cows. Also upthere they had sacks of cowcake and a barrel of molasses or treacle - delicious.
The family was Mr and Mrs Taylor and a son about 8 I think.
The only smell I remember was warm milk. After the war Police houses were built on the field which I think are still there. I lived in Montrose Rd.
I also new a family name of Tudor with a dairy in Cherry Lane but don't know the details.
Happily I am still TB free. Alan Williams
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I am glad someone mentioned the TB problem. I wondered how much these dairies up all over the country were responsible of the spread of TB. My mother came to Liverpool from Newfoundland. Her family had a similar set-up to the cowkeepers back in Newfoundland and TB was rife. Many member of her family alone died from it - Jackie
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hello
You've reminded me that my GF got TB and so went back to the cleaner air of Westmorland.
Michael
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O dear! I was being frivolous but now I remember that a girl from our sunday school whose family had a dairy got TB age about 15. She was in Fazakerley isolation hospital for about 6 months I think and I think is still going strong so I wont mention her name. Alan Williams
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Grandad lived ti be 78 and was very active as I remember.
Michael
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I'm sure in my search for Moneypennys someone told me there had been a Moneypenny Dairy, probably in the Everton area of Liverpool. I've never managed to find any trace of it so if you come across it in your research, I'd appreciate any news.
Thanks.
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Just to let people know ;- there is an article in the latest (june 2009) liverpool Family History journal about cowkeepers in Liverpool which covers and expands on things mentioned. It mentions Capstick's dairy at the Tuebrook end of Marlborough Rd. which I remember too as my brother was pals with their son born about 1931 who also went to Lister Drive school as far as I remember.
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I have just looked at the Trades section of Green's Directory of Liverpool, 1870, and there are 88 names under Dairymen and Cowkeepers.
I can copy the list for anyone wanting more - send me your email address by PM.
There were still plenty around in the 1930s and 40s and even later, with a few cows, a dairy and [usually horse] delivery rounds, but most have gone the way of most small businesses.
I await the Liverpool FHS journal with interest.
A
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I'm sure in my search for Moneypennys someone told me there had been a Moneypenny Dairy, probably in the Everton area of Liverpool. I've never managed to find any trace of it so if you come across it in your research, I'd appreciate any news.
Thanks.
Moneypennys was on the corner of the street (opposite St Georges Street) on Netherfield Road!
I can't remember it being a Dairy, but they did have large back Gates (which would be were the Cow/Cows were kept!).
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Another bit of Misc 'Cowkeeper' Info (sort of):
Prince Alfred Road, Wavertree used to be called 'Cowslip Lane' until it was renamed shortly before one of Queen Victorias Children was due to pay a visit to stay with a friend who lived there, the local council thought it better to change the name (to save any embarrasment!
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<quote>Moneypennys was on the corner of the street (opposite St Georges Street) on Netherfield Road!
I can't remember it being a Dairy, but they did have large back Gates (which would be were the Cow/Cows were kept!). <quote>
Hi Pegasuss,
Only just noticed your reply but thanks for the info.
This was my Great Uncle Albert's shop (christened as Richard!) and it was a grocery shop. My Dad, Matthew worked there as a young lad and took me to see it once but it was closed. I have a photo of it from the Liverpool Records Office when it was the only building left standing in that area!
MissM
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MissM.
Small World!
My Mother used to help out in the shop (a few times a week, for @1-2Hrs).
We used to get given a free Ice cream (on a Stick) by the Owner/Manager when we went in. (C1959-61). :P ;) ;D
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It was obviously quite a common thing in Liverpool - my stepfather's family had a dairy complete with cows in Park Road, in the Dingle area of Liverpool 8, just behind where Woolworths was (don't know whether either the old dairy or Woolworths are still there!). It is amazing to think cows were kept so near to the city centre. Presumably they also kept at least one horse, which would have been used to deliver the milk (which was how we all got our milk when I was young).
Don't things change quicky -that was only a couple of generations ago!
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It was obviously quite a common thing in Liverpool - my stepfather's family had a dairy complete with cows in Park Road, in the Dingle area of Liverpool 8, just behind where Woolworths was (don't know whether either the old dairy or Woolworths are still there!). It is amazing to think cows were kept so near to the city centre. Presumably they also kept at least one horse, which would have been used to deliver the milk (which was how we all got our milk when I was young).
Don't things change quicky -that was only a couple of generations ago!
What a Coinsidence!
I was talking to a Taxi driver (@15mins ago) who told me about the Dairy in Park road! ::) ;)
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Woolworths in Park Road disappeared long before the recent total shut-down of all its branches. Can't say about the dairy, as I only pass on the bus!
There was an article in the latest 'Liverpool Family Historian' about Liverpool cowkeepers who came from Westmorland, and many names were mentioned.
A
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My grandfather had a dairy at 3 Argos Rd., Kirkdale in 1905, he and his family had moved from Llandwrog, Caernarvonshire. Later he had a dairy and general shop at 47 Linacre Lane Bootle, where he, my parents, and I lived for a year before it was lost in the May Blitz 1941.
Glenys
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And the milk from the dairy was delivered to the local houses by a horse and cart .
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Hi,
There was an article in The Dalesman May and June 1978 entitled 'Cowkeepers from the Pennine Dales' by P J Mellor.
Apparently about 4,000 head of cattle were kept within the Liverpool boundary at the beginning of this century (Last century now!). The owners of the milk houses were predominately from Westmorland, Cumberland and Yorkshire Dales farming families. Often they went in order to make enough money to set up on their own farm back home.
The article says that this movement of people probably started about the 1860s when the lead-mines were closing down and there was a period of agricultural depression. One family moved in the 1870s as farm rents had been raised for three successive years.
The houses in Liverpool were "Constructed of brick, they comprised a large house with dairy, shippon, hay loft over stable, trap shed, muck midden and a cobbled yard, within high walls and wooden gates".
There are details about cowkeeping and about the families from the area - the whole article runs to nearly 8 A4 sheets.
There is a further references at the end of the article:
Harris, Alan: The Milk Supply of the East Riding 1850-1950. East Riding Local History Society
Brie
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Brie.
Apparently about 4,000 head of cattle were kept within the Liverpool boundary at the beginning of this century (Last century now!). The owners of the milk houses were predominately from Westmorland, Cumberland and Yorkshire Dales farming families. Often they went in order to make enough money to set up on their own farm back home.
Netherfield Road in Everton, Liverpool/West Derby was originally called 'Tetherfield', it got this name from the owners of surounding fields renting out portions for Farmers/Dairymen to leave their animals (Horses, Cattle, Sheep, Pigs & etc) when on the way to Markets in Liverpool (Old Haymarket being the nearest).
There were probably other sites around the outskirts of the City used for the same purpose (Wavertree, West Derby, Allerton, Toxteth)?
Prince Alfred Road, Wavertree was originally known as 'Cowslip Lane'!
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Hi, I am researching my family history. My grandma (harriet davi(d)son) lived in utting avenue and worked in a dairy in the 1930s/40s+. I would love to find out which dairy she worked in, i'm thinking possibly the one on cherry lane as i know that is close to utting avenue. If anyone has any info regarding my grandma or the dairy on cherry lane i would really appreciate it. Many thanks!!
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A very interesting topic.
Before my dad went to school each morning he worked in a dairy in Smithdown Road Liverpool, the building was between the cemetery and Hartington road. Due to drinking the milk he contacted TB of the bones which resulted in him having a curvature of the spine.
Mary
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To Elinorb. In the 1940s there was a dairy shop on the corner of Woodland Rd. and Cherry Lane if I remember correctly. Run by a family called Tudor. My brother knew one of the brothers and they had a sister about our age so they may be still around. The shop had a lucky dip bran tub which was not lucky for me and that is all I remember. I don't think they had any cows there. We knew the family via Clubmoor Presbyterian Sunday School and did not live near there. Hope this helps. Alan Williams. (Humphpaul)
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COWKEEPER one who kept one or more cows in cities when a cow was kept in the back yard of a house, providing milk which was sold; forerunner of the local dairy OCCUPATION
That makes sense of what one of my ancestors was doing in London. I know its not Liverpool, but I had wondered how he could be a cowkeeper in London. He obviously didn't like the big city because at the next census he was back with his family in rural Lincolnshire.
Lizzie
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My grandfather had a dairy at 3 Argos Rd., Kirkdale in 1905, he and his family had moved from Llandwrog, Caernarvonshire. Later he had a dairy and general shop at 47 Linacre Lane Bootle, where he, my parents, and I lived for a year before it was lost in the May Blitz 1941.
Glenys
[Hi Glenys, my Grandfather along with his mother, had a dairy at 104 Medlock street Kirkdale having both moved from Low Row Swaledale around 1880. He was a best friend of your father Bob who of course went on to become a dairyman in Formby. Happy days !
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Hi Colin,
Just noticed your posting.
There is now only one dairy deliverying in Formby; Bates Farm & Dairy Ltd., of Birkdale.
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Some of my ancestors moved from their North Craven farms and became cowkeepers in the Bootle area of Liverpool.
An extract from Faith Wolfenden Finegan's book, 'A Bit Akin - the Story of a North Craven Farming Family' reads:
The first Wolfenden to be attracted to Liverpool was cousin Robert, second son of James of Woodhouse Gate. He went to Bootle about 1877 with his wife Jane and their young baby. They would have plenty of family support. Two brothers in law, James and Robert Waterworth were already there; they had married cousin Robert's sisters, Betsy and Isabella. Some of Jane's family, the Manserghs were there too.
The life of a cowkeeper wasn't an easy option however. The cattle were kept inside all the year round of course, so they had to be 'fothered' in the shippons with plenty of nourishing food to ensure good quality milk. At least twice a day they were let out into the yard for an airing and to drink at the trough. There were no water bowls in those days. Milking was by hand and so that fresh milk would be on the breakfast tables, the men began to milk at 5am at the latest. The afternoon milking began at 3 o'clock. It was hot in the shippons and even strong young men would often catch cold when they went out into the wintry weather. Many developed pneumonia and died.
Reference: A Bit Akin: The Story of a North Craven Farming Family by Faith W. Finegan
Lamberts Printers
2 Station Road
Settle
North Yorkshire
BD24 9AA
Telephone: 01729 822177
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I have found this topic fascinating.
I have been taking photos of old dairies/cowkeepers premises in Liverpool for the past few months.
My photos are here: member has made photographs private
Please feel free to let me know if there are any other dairies you remember and I will add to my list.
Carrie
www.flickr.com/carrie132
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Does anybody remember the dairy attached to the side of the Willowbank pub on Smithdown Road, 1960's ?
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Welcome to rootschat Carrie and Denlee
Thanks for the link to the photos Carrie my g grandfather was a milk dealer in Liverpool so they are very interesting to me.
Sorry Denlee can't help you with the Smithdown Rd dairy, I'm from Birkenhead :)
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Kelly's 1968 Directory has Mrs J Winn, cowkeeper, at 325/7 Smithdown Road, next to the Willowbank.
A
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Hello
Could any of you Liverpool experts please tell me anything about cowkeepers in Liverpool. It would seem that there was quite a tradition of people going to Liverpool from the Lune Valley area of Westmorland and West Riding and becoming cowkeepers. They also took local people with them as servants.
My GGF Edward Capstick was a Butcher and cowkeeper at 98 Admiral Street, Liverpool in the late 1800s.
Thank you.
Michael
Your Edward Capstick is listed as a Butcher at 98 Admiral Street in 1908/09 Kellys directory. Some rellies of mine had the fruiterers shop next door at 96 - the Overs.
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There was a Capsticks dairy at the top of Marlborough Rd. just off West Derby Rd. Tuebrook about 1945-7. My brother was a friend of the son age about 10.
An auntie of mine knew a Lily Capstick who lived on Queens Drive about that time.
Any help? Humphpaul
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<quote>Moneypennys was on the corner of the street (opposite St Georges Street) on Netherfield Road!
I can't remember it being a Dairy, but they did have large back Gates (which would be were the Cow/Cows were kept!). <quote>
Hi Pegasuss,
Only just noticed your reply but thanks for the info.
This was my Great Uncle Albert's shop (christened as Richard!) and it was a grocery shop. My Dad, Matthew worked there as a young lad and took me to see it once but it was closed. I have a photo of it from the Liverpool Records Office when it was the only building left standing in that area!
MissM
This is a small world...MissM...was your dad the Scoutmaster in Speke...and do you manage the AllSaints website...?...if so, we were neighbours as children...we lived in 78 Rycot...you lived in about 54 ?.....we have been in touch via the church site...allan ;)
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Hi
a interesting website with some family history of Robinsons cow keepers in Liverpool and farmers in Westmorland is www.strickley.co.uk
Cheers Fellsman
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Hello Fellsman
Thanks for that link. I know of that website we are connected to the Robinsons by marriage.
Michael
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This is a small world...MissM...was your dad the Scoutmaster in Speke...and do you manage the AllSaints website...?...if so, we were neighbours as children...we lived in 78 Rycot...you lived in about 54 ?.....we have been in touch via the church site...allan ;)
Hi Allan, yes, that's`me! My Dad Matt was Akela of the Cubs and helped out for` many years before and after that.
We lived in number 60 in the prefabs so not far from you at all.
Have you been on the Spekeliverpool site lately? I've added more photos to the Scout and Guide pages following a reunion at All Saints. Let me know if you spot anyone you remember!
Best wishes,
Lynne
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:o hi my father was a james thomas mawer, he had a dairy in chelsea road litherland his father had a dairy farm in the yorkshire dales before the second world war.
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i have a photo of his dairy of the house with our name on side, a cow was kept in the yard at side of house.
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Hello Michael
I noticed from your email that you have the surname Charters from Liverpool at the base of your email. My ancestor, William Charters, lived in Liverpool, somewhere near St Peter's church in the early 1800s. His son Robert came to Australia in 1835. Are you related to this family?
Regards
Judy
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Slightly off subject, but ......
My great grandparents ran a fruit & vegetable shop in Smithdown Road in the 1930s-1940s. Grandmother Elizabeth Augusta Green (nee Stoddart) ran the shop with her second husband Richard Green going door to door selling from the horse and cart. According to Mum, the cart was kept in the "yard" with the horse being stabled next door.
Presumably cow & horse accommodation was interchangeable, but has anyone a photo of a green grocers with attached stable in Smithdown Road from that era? Mum also remembers a "magnificent" photograph of Elizabeth Augusta hung over the shop counter and I'd love to find that.
Thank you
Wilbs
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Just another one to add to the list:-
I have just found out that an uncle of mine had his work shop in an ex shippen in Goodall St of Carisbrooke Rd in the 1930s/40s. So I presume there was a dairy there at some time. Humphpaul
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To anyone still working on this subject:- please see photo on front of latest Liverpool FHS journal - vol 33 Sept. 2011.
The owner's grandad Evan Owen is in a charabanc fullof people who may be cowkeepers.
They want the tower in the photo identified. I think I have seen it but cannot place it. Humphpaul.
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hi
does anyone know anything about a James and Esther Fothergill he was a Dairyman in 1881 at 5 moorgate , west derby they had a 2month old son Thomas and James Newton brother in law living with them . James and Esther married 20th april 1880 at Longsleddale , Westmorland.
Cheers Fellsman
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Sorry not one of mine.
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Would you like more information about Liverpool Cowkeepers? Both I and my husband had ancestors who were cowkeepers in Liverpool. In my case it was an uncle by marriage, have some photos of him, with his prize cows and the Cowkeepers' Association Championship Cup. My aunt had an uncle, Edward Capstick whose family had cows in Liverpool. I have funeral cards for two of their children who died as infants.
Willing to share info and photos if anyone is interested. Did visit uncle's dairy once, just after the war, in 1945.
Kath
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Hi Kath and others,
I'd be very interested in hearing more about your memories of dairies in Liverpool. I'm actually running a project on the history of local food in Liverpool at the moment. We're trying to collect together as many sites and stories as possible to show how things have changed over time - and how quickly. We have found a few dairies from old maps, but we're sure there are others other there.
You can find more info on the project at www.mrseelsgarden.org and the map we're developing is here: http://www.mrseelsgarden.org/historical-local-food-sites.html. The light blue markers are the dairies.
Kath, if you are interested we'll actually be interviewing people on the 4th and 8th of May. The 4th in Everton and the 8th in the city centre. You can contact us through the website if you're interested and want more details. We'll provide you with a CD of the interview to share with others if that's of use..
Best,
Michelle
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I originally posted about a dairy off Lower Breck Road and said it was corner of Grange Street. It was on corner of Lower Breck Road and Hanson Street. Names were Metcalf. Little shop on corner and a big gate on Hanson Street with a cow in the SMALL yard behind. Little girl called Murial Turner was knocked down by a lorry on that corner and sadly she died, late 1940s. Anne
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As a kid, I remember playing at Capstick’s Farm in Belle Vale in the mid 1950s. Today there is a Capstick Crescent on the farm site.
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I was talknig to mum today about this topic. She was brought up in Lyon Rd, Anfield and there was a cowkeeper opposite (walton Breck, Oakfield rd)?
She showed me once and you can still see a plaster cows head on the building. Mum said she remembers the very clean counter with the pail and the ladle to ladle the milk into a jug. She recalls looking at the cows in the back. This would be late 30's and 40's.
She is trying to remember the owners name.
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hi everyone - thanks for the messages - I've added some of the locations mentioned in this thread to our map - hope this is ok..
You can see them here:
http://www.mrseelsgarden.org/historical-local-food-sites.html
Just look for the light blue markers
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Have been reading all these posts about Liverpool cowkeepers with interest so thought it was about time to put my contribution into the pot. I had ancestors who came from North Yorkshire during the late 1870s and set up as cowkeepers in Liverpool. The 1881 census shows one of these families living at 2 Goodall Street ( Kirkdale ) where there was and still is a house with yard for the cows to be kept in. Another ancestor was living at 9 Chester Road ( off West Derby Road ) with a cowkeeper. That house has got a yard at the side as well.At the time of his marriage in 1895 my greatgrandfather was living temporarily at 41 Greenwich Road ( at the side of Kirkdale Cemetery ) with the person who was to be his best man/ witness. That person was a cowkeeper and the house at that address still has a yard at the side. I have photographs of these locations.
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Could someone please tell us how to put photos on this site, as we have some photos of cows and cowkeepers in Liverpool?
I have tried copy and paste - no success, drag and drop - still no success, also how does one send a personal message to anyone on this site?
Bernard
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I'm not sure how to add photos but you can't private message someone until you've posted three times..
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Hi
Just thought I might add that I think there was a dairy on Aigburth Road, opposite the army barracks, as the building has a cows head on the doorway. Also, down on the prom, by the houses on Moel Famou View, there used to be a big field where lots of cows used to roam and my husband said he vaguely remembers a dairy being there. I think there might have been one on Grace Street, and the corner of David Street, in the Holy Land, Liverpool 8. Perhaps someone else might remember.
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My Dad says he worked for Wilkinson's dairy of 264 Walton Breck Road in 1955/56. A 1938 directory has Thomas Matthew Wilkinson, Cowkeeper in residence. My Dad delivered milk around Anfield on his bike.
Blue
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Re:attachment of photos I tried to do this once regarding another topic , but no success I'm afraid. Any suggestions anyone as it sounds like there's a whole bank of "cowkeeper" photos waiting to be compiled on this topic.
Doug ( Pirhana )
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Hi all - I'm trying to attach a photo now - let's see if it works..
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Ok - so just hit reply - click on the blue writing at the end that says 'attach a photograph or image (and other options).. browse to the file, select it and then post... Maybe it is like PM and you need to have posted a few times before you can see that option..
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I think the problem for me is the size of my digital photos; all are in colour and all are much bigger ( 3000+KB ) than the maximum attachment size allowed ( 500 KB ).
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Blue 70, that is the dairy my mum remembers. My uncle says they made Ice cream as well.
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Hi dandalady,
We thought it might be the same one.
Blue
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mum lived at 4 lyon road so was just acroos the road for her. How many cows did they have I wonder?
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Dad doesn't know he was always in and out of there. There was about half a dozen kids working for them. They used trolleys to deliver the milk. My Dad did what he calls the outskirts so he was the only one on a bike.
Blue
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I was in Garston last week and spotted this the Old Dairy in McBride Street so I took a photo with my phone. I don't have any connections to it but thought it might be helpful to someone here.
Miss M
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Here are some more photos - these are from Ribb
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And here's another..
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And a few more :)
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and the final lot..
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I used to live near Parrington's dairy in Myers Road West, in Crosby.
They were still doing a horse-drawn milk round well into the 1960's, much to the delight of local gardeners who would dash out with shovels to scoop up manure after the cart had passed by.
My 1913 directory records that the proprietor at that time was Thos James Parrington, cowkeeper.
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MBastian thank you for sharing the photos of George BARGH and some of his dairy cows.
They give a fascinating insight into the social history of the city of Liverpool.
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no need to thank me - thanks to everyone for sharing the info. Also I've now got permission from the person providing the photos to offer more details - they are from Kathleen ROBINSON (nee BENTHAM). She has other Capstick relatives who also had dairies in Liverpool.
Also and just to confirm - the address of George Bargh's diary in photos was Glebe Farm Dairy, 72, Walton Village, Liverpool.
best all,
Michelle
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I just noticed in 1901 census of Tuebrook, there was a Dairy at No.1 Ivy Leigh with Robert Scarn (I think) age 35 and wife Kate and Jane Capstick age 73 retired farmer plus 3 cowmen! so it must have been quite big.
In 1940s there was of course a Capsticks dairy over the other side of Tuebrook in Marlborough Road. Humphpaul
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It's lovely to see those old photos of dairies and cows in Liverpool, don't have any photos, but as a contribution to these postings, this excerpt from my father's memoir of growing up in Scotland Rd., about 1915:
"As a child I would toddle round to John's dairy to get a warm drink straight from the cow and to watch him cooling the milk which he poured through a Funnel into a steel ventilator from which it emerged through the vanes directly into the churns. This operation required a bucket of hot water into which I promptly sat only to he rushed off to my mother bawling my head off. When I became older I sometimes helped on his rounds. That was when housewives bought milk straight from the churn and a valued possession was a white quart jug. One time he had a real high-stepper of a pony which would stand in the street harnessed and docile as a lamb until it heard the key turn in the padlock, at which point it would tear off like something possessed, with old John hurling himself into the float and grabbing the reins just in time.
There was a morning when, standing in the float with ten-gallon churn of milk, the sound of the padlock hit the mad moke's ears and off it shot. Grabbing the reins instinctively, I tugged on the wrong one and there we were, careering along the pavement, one wheel on, one wheel off. Fortunately the Cowkeeper with an extra spurt and his usual acrobatics brought the pony under control at the same time giving me a stinging crack on the head and a warning not to do that again. We were lucky the main road was only yards away.
On another day, John and I, armed with long canes, drove three of his poor dried-up cows through the streets onto the luggage boat and into the Lairage at Birkenhead. The Pride I felt in this exercise excluded any pity for the animals but it's as well l didn't witness their ignoble end, as according to John: they were stunned with a Sledge hammer and then cut up."
From: "Candles, Carts and Carbolic, a Liverpool Childhood between the Wars" by Jim Callaghan, Carnegie Publishing. Available at any bookstore.
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Tortoise1's father's account of the dairy sounds very familiar. In the 1960s we lived next door to a dairy farm near Clitheroe and one of my duties, at the age of eleven, was to hop over the wall with a tall, 'willow pattern' jug and 7d (3.5p) for a pint of milk.
The 'cooler' in the dairy consisted of a hefty steel bracket attached to the wall, on top of which was a stainless steel, semi-circular bath which would have held about ten gallons of milk. On the front of this bath was a tap, which discharged into a trough and thence through a row of holes which allowed it to flow down a convoluted heat exchanger into a further trough. The heat exchanger had a hosepipe at the bottom right corner, which was attached to a water tap and a further hosepipe at the top left, discharging into a drain. Below the lower trough, a milk kit was placed with a large funnel called a 'sile' placed in the top. A stainless steel mesh 'sandwich' in the bottom of the sile contained a disc of filter paper, which I was told was called a 'sile wad'. The exciting part was when you asked for the pint of milk and the farmer deftly stopped the flow of milk from the bottom trough, with a plug very similar to a sink plug, removed the sile, dipped a one-pint measure into the milk kit, poured it into your jug (with a bit extra for luck), replaced the sile and then unbunged the bottom trough - all before the milk in the bottom trough started to overflow!
It was never as much fun to watch when farms started using 'bulk tanks'.
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If anyone is interested I did a list from the 1881 Census of Cowkeepers and Dairymen in Liverpool.
Ribb
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Brilliant thread. Thanks to everyone especially for the photos. :) :)
My great x3 grandfather was a coe keeper in 1806 and 1810 according to the children's baptism details. This was in Leeds St and Old Hall St. If any one has a directory or map or any other info I would be very pleased as my family line stops there.
Lynne
forgot to add he was called Thomas Harrison
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And another one ! Just seen in 1901 census at 134, Westminster Rd. is a Milk House with Mary Thomas age 68 born Wales and, Owen Thomas son age 29, dairy milk man, born Lpool.
I noticed it because a rel. of mine Jane Wyllie (nee PAUL) age 52 was next door at 136. Her husband was John Wyllie age 67 born Dundee, marine engineer.
Humphpaul
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My ancestors were also cowkeepers in Anfield, originating in Westmorland. I'm trying to attach an old business card that we have in the archives. I may have to come back and do that later!
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the information posted here. It's very interesting.
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William WILLIAMS cowkeepers assistant, lived 10, Goring St. West Derby in 1923.
I have a birth cert. for his daughter Phyllis born 14/06/1923. Mother was Mary Emily PEEL.
I got this by mistake and will happily send it to anyone interested. Humphpaul.
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I am researching a Johnson family from Cheshire for a friend and I have the following:
George Johnson (born 1834) and his wife Sarah- married in Cheshire in 1861 but had 3 children in Everton, Liverpool, who were baptised in 1864/66/68 at Christ church Everton. George Johnson is show on baptisms as a cowkeeper. By 1869 he was back in Cheshire and farming again- could this have been to avoid the risk of TB? Are there any Trade Directories that are available on line so that I may see if he is listed during the 1860s?
Any help or advice appreciated.
Caroline
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Further to my post of over 5 years ago, I have since with the help of my Aunt found that the dairy was in Smithdown Road Liverpool, in between Hartington Road and Holmes Street. The arch that the cows used is still visible today next to the pub.
My Aunt also told me that it was true that my Dad did contact T B of the spine after drinking the milk straight from the cows. I think it must have been Pott's disease which is tuberculosis arthritis of the spine, which results in the collapse or a deformation of the spine.
Mary
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Only today spotted this thread. There were Threlfalls as cowkeepers in Toxteh, in the 1840s and 50s certainly. A Thomas threlfall with wife Mary, and several children. The intersting thing is that they seemed to move a lot more frequently than I'd anticipate with cows to accommodate! Essex Street> Norfolk Street> Fylde Street > Northumberland Road! Perhaps their cows didn't come en-suite?
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Hi, I am very new to the site, and I would like to ask one who can help with a question about a Cow House at the top of the road I was born in, I think there was a cow house at the top of Saint Martin Street off Scotland Road, Liverpool this would have been in 1947 till about 1953 when I left the area.
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Hello ysenoj,
Welcome to RootChat :)
I would start off a "New Topic" under Lancashire. It is funny but I caught a snippet of a film this morning on BBC News showing the last herd of Cows in Liverpool, shame I hadn't seen it all.
Regards
Sarah :)
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I'm trying to find information on George Hall, who was a cowkeeper and hay dealer at 8 Murat Street Waterloo in c1910 - thanks.
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I'm trying to find information on George Hall, who was a cowkeeper and hay dealer at 8 Murat Street Waterloo in c1910 - thanks.
It may be a good idea for you to start a NEW thread on that specific subject.
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How do I do that?
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Click on category Lancashire, then you see a box "New Topic"
Click on that, then type your new thread title plus what you said about Murat Street, Waterloo.
I was born in Waterloo.
I remember there were milk suppliers in Handfield Road, Waterloo in the 1950s. and there was Jumps Dairy on Myers Road East at a similar date.
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I lived off Lower Breck Road in 40s and 50s and I remember a small dairy called Metcalfs at the bottom of Grange Street. They had a cow in the yard at the back. I am glad I spotted this post, as no one else in the family remember it and reckon I was making it up. Anne
I seem to remember Metcalfs had a dairy in Handfield Road Waterloo in the late 1950s and 1960s. I wonder if they were related?
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There must have been small family-run dairies everywhere. Our family one was in Murat Street.
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Does anybody remember the dairy attached to the side of the Willowbank pub on Smithdown Road, 1960's ?
I use to work at weekends and school holidays at that dairy.
It was called Henry Wynns, and I use to help deliver bottled milk (gold top was premium) also eggs and cheese to homes in the surrounding streets via a horse and cart ...
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Anyone interested in this topic might like to read a book with the same title, "Liverpool Cowkeepers", by Dave Joy, published recently by Amberley, paperback, 128 pages with lots of photos, £12.99.
The author is from a family which came from Wharfedale to the Garston area of Liverpool in the mid-1800s and set up a milk business which lasted for over a century. He describes his family's continuing links with Yorkshire and includes much family history, as well as many names of other similar businesses. A very interesting and well-researched read for anyone with interest in local or family history.
A
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My mams Aunty Mary Close from Sedbergh married cow keeper James Alderson from Swaledale and they lived in 76 Chester Road, Tuebrook, Liverpool and she corresponded with them often.
In the 1980’s I took mam on a visit there and she was expecting a farm not a terraced house. The cowsheds were probably on the now waste ground at the junction with Clifton Road East.
James Alderson arrived in Liverpool with his father George from Swaledale [a former lead miner], mother Ann along with sisters Margaret and Mary. On the same street {No 9] Robert Pratt arrived the same year as George in 1888. Christopher Lambert took over from Pratt as a cow keeper around 1925 and lived there until at least 1970. Lambert may have worked with the Aldersons or the Capstick’s in Marlborough Road four streets away. The Capstick’s were the last cow keepers to pull up sticks in 1975 and when the cows were taken away in a cattle truck, so ended a tradition that many in the city today know little about. All the listed cow keepers from Chester Road including the Capstick’s are names very familiar within the farming community ten miles of Hawes Junction Station.
Re Dinsdales. They also lived at Brownmoor Farm Near Hawes, I knew a Wilson Dinsdale who lived in Gayle farmed in Widdale, buried in Hawes Cemetery located on the Burtersett side of Hawes
Dinsdales are well known in Gayle as Builders
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I think the person Ainslie mentions ( David Joy)as having written a book on the Cow Keepers is currently doing the local history society talks circuit in the North of England - should be possible to pick up a talk at a venue somewhere in the North if you are interested?
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I used to live down Lower Breck Road. I remember Metcalf's Dairy. Used to see Mr Metcalf out with his horse and cart. This is a reply to Rattler.
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This is a photo dated c. 1900s taken on Townsend Lane in Anfield, just before the junction of Lower Breck Road.
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Just attended a talk given by Dave Joy on those Cowkeepers, and his own two books- the fact that he arrived late didn't diminish it at all! It was fascinating. Felt sorry for two people who had come for his talk - and then left before he arrived late! They missed it after all the effort of getting there on a not very nice night.
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Hi
When I was growing up in Liverpool in the 1950's there was a dairy in Attwood St just off Sleepers Hill where they had cows in the back yard. We used to love peeping over the gates to see them
Fancy that! My great grandmother was boarding with a cow keeper, a lady on Attwood in 1889! I did picture the cow splayed out in the front parlour having a nap! Thanks for clearing that up! My great grandad lived at 13 Attwood.
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I can really visualise that! The image will stay with me for some time.....
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Just attended a talk given by Dave Joy on those Cowkeepers, and his own two books- the fact that he arrived late didn't diminish it at all! It was fascinating. Felt sorry for two people who had come for his talk - and then left before he arrived late! They missed it after all the effort of getting there on a not very nice night.
The talk is on tour, as you mentioned in an earlier post. A very extensive tour!
http://www.davejoy-author.com/talksevents-2017.html
Perhaps the two people who left early will get another chance :)
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Hi, all.
My first time on the site, I don't usually go on media sites I leave all that stuff to her indoors.
As regards the Liverpool Cowkeepers, when at school in the late 1950's early 60's I used to have a morning / weekend job at the dairy in Walton Breck Road (just down the raod from Liverpool FC ground Anfield.), It was run by an old Irish guy by the name of Carrol and his brother. They had about 6 Cows at any one time. I used to help deliver the milk in the mornings and help muck out at the weekends. I used to start the day with a warm (Fresh -straight from the cow) pint of Guernsey milk, abouit half of which was full cream.
Most of the milk we used to deliver was bought in and dropped off the night before from one of the large processing dairies like Express and the fresh in house milked stuff was kept for sale over the counter. The odd few bottles being delivered. We delivered the milk on an old flat bed trailer pulled by a horse, when delivering the horse used to stop and start by voice commands without any one on board at the reins.
I have not been past the place in years but it is still there albeit in a changed form. The old shop dorway directly on the corner is a window and the old shipham is now rebuilt into a private house, The main house looks like it is divided up into 3 smaller houses. obviously much smaller 'that's progress' for you.
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I have been away from site for a while but today saw your reply about Metcalf dairy. I was beginning to think I was only one who remembered it. ( Ex September Road. )
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Not sure if anyone still monitors this thread, but I'd like to add my ancestors, David and Elizabeth Whatman, to the list of Liverpool Cowkeepers between 1886 (when they married) and 1891. David got into trouble with the law twice that year for dealing in dodgy milk, and family legend has it that he went from being a member of the Temperance Movement to a full-blown alcoholic who lost the dairy. He was a dock labourer by 1901.
They kept cows at 6 Northumberland St, Toxteth, and possibly at Beaufort Street before that. I have pictures of them both if anyone is interested, but sadly not of the dairy itself.
I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread - it's reminded me to go back and research these two a bit more!
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It might be nice if you contacted David Joy - he's listed online - to add your information?
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Will do :-)
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I'm researching an in-law's family - they are distantly connected with some Toxteth Liverpool cowkeepers. I am trying to trace a link with Northern Ireland, but not sure of the surname that would be involved. Does anyone on this thread know of a NI link with the Liverpool cowkeepers (this could be a red-herring but I'm glad to do a bit of research)
Thank you
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Wow - I'm so pleased to see all this info on Liverpool Cowkeepers. On my ancestor's marriage certificate at St Philip's, Liverpool in 1847, his father Thomas Challinor was a Cowkeeper. The address given was Vine Street, Liverpool.
I would be grateful for any information anyone has on this address or this family.
Thank you Lo57
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I don't know Vine Street, but I'm posting this reply in case the address has been mis-spelled. I used to live in Liverpool many years ago and remember a street in Garston near Speke Airport called VINEYARD street. Many of the children there went to my old school. I think the houses were originally for the railway workers but could be mistaken. I know there's are old Garstonians on this site who will give more accurate advice. Good luck.
Lesley
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Vine Street is still there, off Falkner Street.
See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=53.4002&lon=-2.9635&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
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Thank you Stan - I have just been checking the marriage certificate and yes the address was Vine Street. Would St Philips Church be close to there or maybe that was the bride's parish.
The marriage certificate was in 1847 for James Challinor (an engine driver) and Emma Johnson. His father was the Cowkeeper Thomas Challinor, and her father was John Johnson, a carter (dec). I have tried to find these families on the 1841 census without any luck.
Any help would be appreciated.
I will do some research on Cow keepers - it is becoming a very interesting topic.
Loz57
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I have just checked the certificate again and Emma Johnson gave her address as Clarence Street, Liverpool.
Loz57
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Hello Lesley
Thanks for your information. It seems there is a Vine Street. I have only been to the Archives in Liverpool so don't know anything about the location of streets, etc.
Loz57
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Hi - I don't remember Vine Street, but from the directions the others on here give, it seems like it's near the city centre in the south end. You may remember the recent BBC television programme about the history of a house - well that was in Falkner Street (near the university). If you manage to see that programme it might give you some idea of the area.
Regards
Lesley
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Hi Hannah - thanks - yes I did see the programme and thought at the time it could have been somewhere near.
Have you any idea where Clarence Street is and where St Philips Church is?
Lo57
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Clarence Street is still there https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.4048&lon=-2.9726&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Google Street View https://goo.gl/maps/Lvrtv551MZi7yjSm9
There is a photo of Vine Street at https://senatehouseoccupation.wordpress.com/40-years-on/40-years-on-photos-of-key-locations-in-2010/
Scroll down to
"Vine Street looking south today. New flats have replaced the terraced houseswhich Princess Alexandra visited in May1969 (below)."
Stan
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Thank you so much - I have tried to find information about these families and then given it a break - so now I ma enthused to have another go!
Loz57
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As James' father is apparently deceased by time of marriage, I tried to chase Emma's family.
No idea from the marriage date how old Emma might have been, but in 1841 I can find only a couple of likely Emmas with father John Johnson.
I'd expected to find them further up the Lancs coast, possibly in the Southport area, but are either of these any help:
An Emma J b. 1825, and on Kinsey Street Congleton in 1841, with father John and mother Maria - but he's a labourer.
An Emma J b 1826, and in Ashton under Lyne in 1841, with father John and mother Martha - but this chap's working in the cotton industry.
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Thank you ThrelfallYorky,
I think from later census, Emma Johnson was born around 1824, but it gives place of birth as Liverpool.
On her marriage certificate in 1847 at St Philips Church, Liverpool, the witnesses were John and Elizabeth Hewitt. I had a hint that Elizabeth could have been Emma's married sister. I did find a record of marriage in 1834 - Elizabeth Johnson to John Hewitt but no father's name given.
Any help is welcome - I am really struggling.
Loz57
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PS - it was Emma's father John Johnson Carter who was deceased at the time of her marriage in 1847 not Thomas Challinor Cowkeeper.
I have been given some information that a Thomas Challinor - Cowkeeper - and family were on the 1841 census - address 22 Mason Street, Liverpool. The only problem is there is no son James living with them. I suppose he could have moved out - nothing is simple!!!
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hi im studying glebe farms and others along the Church Road, Cherry Lane area in Walton, Liverpool. I saw aphoto on here of a dairy and cowkeeper in Walton Village and would like to include it but dont know who to get permission from. Also if anyone has any other info re that area and the cowkeepers id be vey grateful.
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My Great Grandparents, Angelo Maria TRIMARCO and Mary Ellen CONNOLLY were Cow Keepers and Ice cream makers from at least 1926 to 1946 at 108A PARK ROAD, DINGLE.
The photograph attached was taken outside the back of the dairy in the late 1920's (the baby is my 94 year-old mother).
I was particularly interested in the quote from Lesleyhannah regarding relatives operating a dairy in PARK ROAD.
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My Great Grandparents, Angelo Maria TRIMARCO and Mary Ellen CONNOLLY were Cow Keepers and Ice cream makers from at least 1926 to 1946 at 108A PARK ROAD, DINGLE
Here's the listing for that block of Park Road in the 1938 Gore's Directory
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The photograph attached was taken outside the back of the dairy
Looks like it was taken at the back of number 363
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Not sure how live this thread is.
Just to say my great granduncle on the maternal side was John Bowman Capstick from Birkhaw farm, Howgill who established one of the several Capstick lines of Liverpool cowkeepers. His descendants were to be the very last of the breed in Liverpool. Another cowkeeper line, descending from a Roger Capstick of Firbank on the other side of the Lune from Howgill had a tragic history in the city.
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Would you like more information about Liverpool Cowkeepers? Both I and my husband had ancestors who were cowkeepers in Liverpool. In my case it was an uncle by marriage, have some photos of him, with his prize cows and the Cowkeepers' Association Championship Cup. My aunt had an uncle, Edward Capstick whose family had cows in Liverpool. I have funeral cards for two of their children who died as infants.
Willing to share info and photos if anyone is interested. Did visit uncle's dairy once, just after the war, in 1945.
Kath
Kath - I am related to Edward Capstick on the maternal side. I would be very pleased to share information.
Best wishes
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Hi
I'm a descendent of Samuel James Bargh (of S J Bargh hauliers). I am a second cousin three times removed.
I am a 1st cousin three times removed of George Bargh the Liverpool cowkeeper.
I'm actually a professional genealogist by trade and have done quite a bit of research into my ancestors.
It can be quite addictive - especially when your job is also your hobby!
Carl
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Many years ago I worked briefly for a company that made plastic bottle caps and their premises were in a former cow sheds not far from Lark Lane, I remember a good tiled floor.