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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Sloe Gin on Monday 20 April 09 21:08 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any knowledge of Sabina and Lavinia Lock, possibly sisters? or their family. They both seem to have had children with a William Davis.
Robert Davis or Lock, baptised 11 March 1837 at Lapworth, Warwickshire (parents William Davis and Sabina Lock)
Joseph Davis or Lock, baptised 16 Oct 1838, Lapworth (William Davis & Lavinia Lock)
Naomi & Susannah Lock, baptised 27 Sep 1840, Bickenhill (Lavinia Lock)
Sampson Davis, baptised 3 Apr 1843, Hampton in Arden (William Davis & Lavinia)
There should also be baptisms for Henry and Matthew, though I haven’t found them under either Lock or Davis.
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Hi Sloe Gin
Perhaps Sabina and Lavinia are one and the same person? If you say the two names aloud, they can sound pretty similar. So this could be an instance of the vicar at the first baptism mis-hearing the name. Or - if this baptism reference has come from a transcription - perhaps the transcriber mis-read the initial L for an S.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hi Sharon
Yes, I suppose that's possible, I must try and check the original entries if I can.
There's no sign of the family on the 1841 & 1851 censuses, but by 1861 they had moved into central Birmingham. They are all using the name Davis by then. William & Lavinia were living next door to Naomi who had married. Close by, Matthew (my gg grandfather) was with sister Susannah and brother Henry and his wife. Lavinia was living with Matthew in 1881 and seems to have been living with Henry when she died in 1888.
Either the baptisms of Henry & Matthew didn't happen or have yet to be found, or it might be that they are two of the other boys going by different names, as I can't find any of them. (They could have died young, of course.)
What makes me think that Sabina did exist is that Henry had a daughter called Sabina.
I'm not entirely sure who Matthew's father was, as on his first two marriages his father is stated as John Davis, but on his third marriage it's William! (http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/8.gif)
Thanks for your interest, if anyone knows anything about a Lock family travelling in Warwickshire, anything may help!
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Thanks to Ancestry, I've now got sight of the originals of these, and Sabina is a red herring - the entry for Robert's baptism reads Lavinia and not Sabina, so it was only a transcription error.
Otherwise I haven't got any further with this, except to find that Joseph died in infancy and was buried at Harborne, with only Lavinia (described as 'single woman') mentioned as parent. It's possible that William and Lavinia married before the birth of Sampson, but it may just be that the Hampton-in-Arden vicar was charitable enough to give them the benefit of the doubt ;D I haven't found any marriage recorded.
They are usually described in the registers as traveller and/or tinker. Still hoping that someone else may have come across these families ....
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Hi
I can add a bit of information which I hope may help.
The Locks were a well-known Romany family and travelled throughout the West Midlands and Gloucestershire - it's worth looking at the Romany and Traveller Family History Society website.
Lavinia's daughter Naomi, who was my great great grandmother, married Samuel Reay (later Ray) in Birmingham on Christmas Day 1862 and her maiden name is shown as Davis - she went on to have a large family. Naomi died in 1912.
So far, I've found no evidence of any formal (church or civil) marriage between Lavinia and William.
Sampson is a new name on me.
Assuming there's a naming convention in the family, Henry and Matthew, whose baptisms I haven't yet found, would likely have been named after Lavinia's father Henry Lock, and her older brother Matthew Lock.
Hi Sharon
Yes, I suppose that's possible, I must try and check the original entries if I can.
There's no sign of the family on the 1841 & 1851 censuses, but by 1861 they had moved into central Birmingham. They are all using the name Davis by then. William & Lavinia were living next door to Naomi who had married. Close by, Matthew (my gg grandfather) was with sister Susannah and brother Henry and his wife. Lavinia was living with Matthew in 1881 and seems to have been living with Henry when she died in 1888.
Either the baptisms of Henry & Matthew didn't happen or have yet to be found, or it might be that they are two of the other boys going by different names, as I can't find any of them. (They could have died young, of course.)
What makes me think that Sabina did exist is that Henry had a daughter called Sabina.
I'm not entirely sure who Matthew's father was, as on his first two marriages his father is stated as John Davis, but on his third marriage it's William! (http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/8.gif)
Thanks for your interest, if anyone knows anything about a Lock family travelling in Warwickshire, anything may help!
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Hello Jonny - that is wonderful and means a real breakthrough for me. I had never found Lavinia's parents, nor that she had a brother named Matthew.
I had wondered if Matthew was Sampson and had changed his name - he seems about the same age - but have since found that he died aged 6 and was buried at Oldbury.
DAVIS, SAMPSON aged 6
GRO Reference: 1849 Q1 in WEST BROMWICH Volume 18 Page 443
Burial from FreeReg
Sampson DAVIS Aged 6 Burial 5 Feb 1849 Worcestershire Oldbury : Christ Church
I also obtained his birth cert - he was not registered by either of his parents but by someone "present at the birth", and not until eight weeks afterwards! I'll post it here but it is only from the pdf so poor quality. As far as I know this is the only one of William & Lavinia's children to be registered.
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Hi Sloe Gin
Pleased to be of help!
To fill in a bit more about Lavinia's family, her parents were Henry Lock (1754-1806) and Sarah Lock nee Peters (1754-1823). Both were born, and died, in Gloucestershire.
Lavinia's known siblings were Matthew (1785-1871), Henry (1778-1869), Sarah (dates unknown), and Unity (1793-1873).
I've attached a photo of Matthew and his wife, Remembrance Boswell, which may be of interest. The Boswells were another well-known Romany family. the caption Willie Lee is believed to refer to another name Matthew used. The consensus is that it's definitely Matthew, and from my perspective he certainly resembles later members of my family including my mother.
Do feel free to have a look at my Ancestry family tree (Jonathan Browne's Family Tree) which is publicly available and contains the information I've got so far on the Locks.
Jonny
Hello Jonny - that is wonderful and means a real breakthrough for me. I had never found Lavinia's parents, nor that she had a brother named Matthew.
I had wondered if Matthew was Sampson and had changed his name - he seems about the same age - but have since found that he died aged 6 and was buried at Oldbury.
DAVIS, SAMPSON aged 6
GRO Reference: 1849 Q1 in WEST BROMWICH Volume 18 Page 443
Burial from FreeReg
Sampson DAVIS Aged 6 Burial 5 Feb 1849 Worcestershire Oldbury : Christ Church
I also obtained his birth cert - he was not registered by either of his parents but by someone "present at the birth", and not until eight weeks afterwards! I'll post it here but it is only from the pdf so poor quality. As far as I know this is the only one of William & Lavinia's children to be registered.
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Thank you so much! I've been building a separate tree for my 2x great-grandfather Matthew's family, as I wasn't certain enough of some aspects to add it to my main tree. So this looks like a turning point.
Recently I have been wondering if Henry Davis was Lavinia's son after all. His wife was named Sarah, but their ages in the census are all over the place so it's been impossible to determine their birth years. Since the GRO added mothers' maiden names, I can see that Henry and Sarah's children were registered with mmn DAVIS, so I wondered if it was Sarah and not Henry who was the child of William & Lavinia. Sarah registered Lavinia's death and is described as "daughter", although I didn't read too much into that at the time. Daughter and daughter-in-law being pretty interchangeable, and she did not sign but made a mark. But it seems possible, especially with Sarah also being a family name.
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Do you have any idea when Lavinia was born? Most of the family were very erratic about their ages in the census.
Lavinia's age is recorded as follows.
1861 - 44
1871 - 65
1881 - 78
1888 - 68 (her death - clearly she must have been much older if her father died in 1806)
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There are several families in the Gwynedd area with the surname Lock so it is quite likely that they may be related in some way.
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Hi GillyJ
I’d agree that it’s likely - I have seen references to the family travelling between Wales and the bordering English counties.
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Unfortunately I don't currently have an Ancestry sub, so I can't look at your tree yet, Jonathan.
I've found a baptism for Lavinia Lock in 1799 at Madeley, Salop, so I guess this must be her and she was older than I realised.
Have you got anywhere with the Davis side? A while ago I had some lengthy correspondence with another Rootschatter about her Davis family who are linked with the Ray/Reays, but we never managed to fit William in with them. You have probably found the newspaper reports about Naomi's sister Susannah, whose "paramour" Benjamin Ray was convicted of her manslaughter.
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Hi there
I think it’s safe to assume it’s the same Lavinia - I’m guessing William Davis was a bit younger than her as their ages (albeit varying from census to census) are consistently showing a few years’ difference. I’m very happy to help to dig out any information that may help.
Wow - I didn’t know that about Benjamin Ray, who is a member of my family. Do you have a copy of the report??
There seem to have been Davis links with the Rea/Reay/Ray family, which is borne it by the 1861 census where they’re all living close together. My mother’s maiden name was spelt Ray.
From my research, both the Davis and Rea names were to be found in the Romany community.
There are three Benjamin Rays in my family and my guess is that the paramour was the Benjamin born c 1846 - his nephew Joseph, Naomi’s son and my great-grandfather, was also a “bad lad” with a long string of convictions for theft, assault and drunkenness.
Very best wishes.
Jonny
Unfortunately I don't currently have an Ancestry sub, so I can't look at your tree yet, Jonathan.
I've found a baptism for Lavinia Lock in 1799 at Madeley, Salop, so I guess this must be her and she was older than I realised.
Have you got anywhere with the Davis side? A while ago I had some lengthy correspondence with another Rootschatter about her Davis family who are linked with the Ray/Reays, but we never managed to fit William in with them. You have probably found the newspaper reports about Naomi's sister Susannah, whose "paramour" Benjamin Ray was convicted of her manslaughter.
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Yes, it is 1846 Benjamin, who features in the Birmingham Post on several occasions, and not in a good way. Here are the news reports about Susannah.
ALLEGED MANSLAUGHTER IN BIRMINGHAM
Last evening the Borough Coroner resumed the enquiry, at the Grand Turk Inn, Lench Street, into the cause of the death of Sarah (sic) Davis (30), Brickiln Street, who it was alleged had died from the effects of injuries inflicted by her paramour, Benjamin Reay, a gun barrel welder. The inquest was adjourned for additional evidence. – Joseph Riley said that on Monday, the 4th ult, he saw Reay and deceased leave the Red Lion Inn, Lancaster Street, and they commenced to quarrel, when Reay struck deceased on the head. As she stooped to pick up a stone, he kicked her, knocking her head against the wall. He saw her a short time afterwards being conveyed to the hospital. – Mary Cadman gave corroborative evidence, but said she did not see Reay kick the deceased. – The Jury returned a verdict of “Manslaughter against Benjamin Reay”, who was accordingly taken into custody.
(Birmingham Daily Post, Wed 3 Sep 1873)
MANSLAUGHTER IN BIRMINGHAM
Benjamin Reay (25), gun striker, pleaded guilty to having feloniously killed and slain Susannah Davis, at Birmingham, on the 19th of August. The plea was entered on the advice of Mr Harris, who defended. The deceased cohabited with the prisoner as his wife. On the day in question the deceased visited a neighbouring public house, when a dispute arose between them. In endeavouring to wrest a stone from her she was injured in the forehead, and afterwards died from erysipelas. Evidence was called to show that the prisoner was uniformly kind to deceased, and that on the day of the quarrel she was very provoking. – Sentence was deferred.
(Birmingham Daily Post, 19 Dec 1873)
MANSLAUGHTER IN LANCASTER STREET
Benjamin Reay (25), gun barrel striker, who had pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of Susannah Davis, in Lancaster Street, on the 19th of August, was brought up for sentence. – His Lordship said he had carefully considered the evidence given before the magistrates, as well as what was proved in court on Thursday evening, and was clearly of the opinion that the deceased had lost her life in consequence of a severe blow given her by the prisoner, and that the stone she had in her hand at the time was picked up for self-defence. He therefore felt bound to deal with the case severely. – Prisoner was sentenced to ten years’ penal servitude.
(Birmingham Daily Post, 20 Dec 1873)
I will give Brummygirl a shout as we had copious discussions about these families.
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Hi again, Sloe Gin
Thank you so much for sending, really appreciated - a significant if very disturbing piece of family history!
I'm sorry you're not able to view my family tree but if there's anything I can help you with, just let me know.
As you said earlier there's clearly a connection between the Rays (whichever spelling) and Davises, particularly as it looks like Susannah took up with Naomi's brother in law. I see in the 1871 census that Susannah is listed as Susannah Reay, spouse of Benjamin (and their ages check out with the birthdates we have) but I can't see any marriage record and on the civil death record she's referred to as Davis.
Jonny
Yes, it is 1846 Benjamin, who features in the Birmingham Post on several occasions, and not in a good way. Here are the news reports about Susannah.
ALLEGED MANSLAUGHTER IN BIRMINGHAM
Last evening the Borough Coroner resumed the enquiry, at the Grand Turk Inn, Lench Street, into the cause of the death of Sarah (sic) Davis (30), Brickiln Street, who it was alleged had died from the effects of injuries inflicted by her paramour, Benjamin Reay, a gun barrel welder. The inquest was adjourned for additional evidence. – Joseph Riley said that on Monday, the 4th ult, he saw Reay and deceased leave the Red Lion Inn, Lancaster Street, and they commenced to quarrel, when Reay struck deceased on the head. As she stooped to pick up a stone, he kicked her, knocking her head against the wall. He saw her a short time afterwards being conveyed to the hospital. – Mary Cadman gave corroborative evidence, but said she did not see Reay kick the deceased. – The Jury returned a verdict of “Manslaughter against Benjamin Reay”, who was accordingly taken into custody.
(Birmingham Daily Post, Wed 3 Sep 1873)
MANSLAUGHTER IN BIRMINGHAM
Benjamin Reay (25), gun striker, pleaded guilty to having feloniously killed and slain Susannah Davis, at Birmingham, on the 19th of August. The plea was entered on the advice of Mr Harris, who defended. The deceased cohabited with the prisoner as his wife. On the day in question the deceased visited a neighbouring public house, when a dispute arose between them. In endeavouring to wrest a stone from her she was injured in the forehead, and afterwards died from erysipelas. Evidence was called to show that the prisoner was uniformly kind to deceased, and that on the day of the quarrel she was very provoking. – Sentence was deferred.
(Birmingham Daily Post, 19 Dec 1873)
MANSLAUGHTER IN LANCASTER STREET
Benjamin Reay (25), gun barrel striker, who had pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of Susannah Davis, in Lancaster Street, on the 19th of August, was brought up for sentence. – His Lordship said he had carefully considered the evidence given before the magistrates, as well as what was proved in court on Thursday evening, and was clearly of the opinion that the deceased had lost her life in consequence of a severe blow given her by the prisoner, and that the stone she had in her hand at the time was picked up for self-defence. He therefore felt bound to deal with the case severely. – Prisoner was sentenced to ten years’ penal servitude.
(Birmingham Daily Post, 20 Dec 1873)
I will give Brummygirl a shout as we had copious discussions about these families.
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Apologies to everyone following this thread - the statement in italics below is incorrect, resultnig from my misreading a comment elsewhere.
Jonny
I've attached a photo of Matthew and his wife, Remembrance Boswell, which may be of interest. The Boswells were another well-known Romany family. the caption Willie Lee is believed to refer to another name Matthew used. The consensus is that it's definitely Matthew, and from my perspective he certainly resembles later members of my family including my mother.
Do feel free to have a look at my Ancestry family tree (Jonathan Browne's Family Tree) which is publicly available and contains the information I've got so far on the Locks.
Jonny
Hello Jonny - that is wonderful and means a real breakthrough for me. I had never found Lavinia's parents, nor that she had a brother named Matthew.
I had wondered if Matthew was Sampson and had changed his name - he seems about the same age - but have since found that he died aged 6 and was buried at Oldbury.
DAVIS, SAMPSON aged 6
GRO Reference: 1849 Q1 in WEST BROMWICH Volume 18 Page 443
Burial from FreeReg
Sampson DAVIS Aged 6 Burial 5 Feb 1849 Worcestershire Oldbury : Christ Church
I also obtained his birth cert - he was not registered by either of his parents but by someone "present at the birth", and not until eight weeks afterwards! I'll post it here but it is only from the pdf so poor quality. As far as I know this is the only one of William & Lavinia's children to be registered.