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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ceri63 on Thursday 23 April 09 20:04 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for the parents of my great, great grandfather Owen Williams, born 2nd June 1827(his date of birth on his gravestone in Trefnant). His father's name is Robert Williams on his marriage certificate and one of the witnesses is Edward Williams, possibly his brother. Owen was a servant for William and Elizabeth Williams in Henllan on the 1841 and 1851 census and there's no sign of his parents there. I've also looked through quite a few Denbighshire parishes on IGI. Any help on this would be very welcome as I'm truly stuck.
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Hello ceri,
Was his birthplace given as Llanrwst on the 1851 census and could you tell me where he married please?
Paul.
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Hello ceri
A belated welcome :)
Could you also tell us what the occupation of his father was on the marriage cert and whether or not it stated if he was deceased. It might help track them down.
Gadget
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Hi Paul
On the 1851 census Owen Williams' birthplace is Gwytherin. He was married to Elizabeth Jones in Denbigh on the 27th April1855.
Ceri
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Hi Gadget,
Thank you. Robert Williams was a farmer and it doesn't state on the cert that he was deceased.
Ceri
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On the 1841 there is a possible Robert in Gwytherin:
Penyfron, Gwytherin
HO107/1402 Bk 3 Folio 18 Page 6
Williams
Robert, 45, farmer
Mary, 18
Margaret, 16
Margaret Jones, ?, not born county
All others born County.
As you are probably aware, the 1841 doesn't give relationships. Owen would have been 14 and might have been working away.
It's only a possible but the best match that I can find.
I'll keep look in case I can find a better one.
Gadget
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Thanks for looking that up.
I had wondered if that was the right Robert Williams and he had remarried by 1851 which might explain why Owen Williams was working away for ten years.
From what I can find on IGI his first wife's name was Jane Morris and some of their childrens' births are in the records there's no sign of Owen.
Ceri
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Ceri, Bridget :)
I'll have a look if there's anything in Gwytherin PR's
Paul.
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Thanks Paul
Owen Williams stated he was born in Gwytherin in 1851, Henllan in 1861, Denbigh in 1871,Gwytherin in 1881 and Llanrwst in 1891 and 1901 so it's anyones guess I'm afraid.
From 1841 he lived in Henllan/Trefnant until his death on 8th August 1906 and had four children, Elizabeth 1857, Robert, my great grandfather, 1859, John 1862 and Edward 1864 all registered at birth in Green, Denbigh.
On the 1841 Henllan census his age is recorded as 10, working as a servant on Acer Las farm.
This is my first post and I apologise if these details should have been in the original inquiry. ::)
Ceri
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Ceri, Gadget :).......Gwytherin Baptisms.
April 3 1822. Elias & Anna(twins) of Robert Williams. Tyn Caeau?. Farmer & Jane Williams. Bwlch Gwyn. Servant Maid.
Nov 21 1824. Margaret d/o Robert & Jane Williams Nant Yr ??????. Farmer.
June 3 1827. Thomas. s/o Robert & Jane Williams Nant Yr ??????. Farmer.
June 11 1827. OWEN. s/o Robert & Jane Williams. Tyn Caeau. Farmer.
Sep 13 1829. William. s/o Robert & Jane Williams. Tyn Caeau. Farmer.
Looks like two Robert & Jane Williams, Farmers in Gwytherin :-\
Only had time for a quick look in marriages :(
June 25 1814.
Robert Williams. bachelor. 25. of this parish.
Jane Morris(x) spinster 24. of this parish.
Witnesses. William Williams & John Williams.
June 6 1826.
Robert Williams(x). bachelor. of this parish.
Jane Williams(x). spinster. of this parish.
Witnesses. John Williams & Margaret Williams(x)
(x)=did not sign made mark.
What do you make of that Bridget? :) :-\
Paul.
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Hi Paul;
Some good finds there :)
I'm thinking about the servant maid, etc. and a possible subsequent marriage in 1826. Tricky.
Gadget
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Confused me a bit Gadget ;D but you know how easily confused I get :-[
Paul
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The family that I found on the 1841 looks as if it's the same one who had the Margaret bpt. in 1824. This would be the same family who had a Thomas bpt 3 June 1827 and living Nantyr.
Owen was bpt 11 June 1827 and his parents were given as living Tyn Caeau so it looks as if they're a different family.
So where are the Tyn Caeau family in 1841?
Gadget
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The 1822 bpt. are also for the Tyn Caeau family and it looks as if Robert and Jane were n't married then.
I think the 1826 marriage might possibly be of Owen's parents.
Gadget
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Bridget, Paul,
That's more than I could have hoped for, thank you. :D
I looked at the 1841 census and found Moses Lewis and his wife Jane living at Tyn y Caeau and William Williams aged 11 living with them. They are still there in 1851 but as Moses and Jane Roberts and Catherine Williams aged 17 there too.
Is it likely that Jane Lewis is Jane Williams with her second husband? :-\
Ceri
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From the Gwytherin parish records, children whose parents were a Robert and Jane Williams:
Parish,Year,Month,Day,Name,Father,Mother, Surname, Fathers Occupation,Abode
Gwytherin 1815 4 9 William Robert Jane Williams Labourer Rectory House
Gwytherin 1817 6 15 Owen Robert Jane Williams Labourer Ty'n Coed Isa
Gwytherin 1824 11 21 Margaret Robert Jane Williams Farmer Nant yr Henfaes
Gwytherin 1827 6 3 Thomas Robert Jane Williams Farmer Nant yr Henfaes
Gwytherin 1827 6 11 Owen Robert Jane Williams Farmer Ty'n y Caeau
Gwytherin 1829 9 13 William Robert Jane Williams Farmer Ty'n Caeau
Lee
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There are also these burial records for Gwytherin:
1831 26th Feb Robert Williams Ty'n Caeau age 59
1841 12th July Robert Roberts Ty'n y Caeau age 4
1862 28th Aug Jane Williams Ty'n Caeau age 61
Lee
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Headstone in Gwytherin church grounds reads:
ER COF
am
ROBERT WILLIAMS,
TY'N Y CAEAU,
a gladdwyd, Chwefror 25, 1831
HEFYD
JANE, ei wraig a gladdwyd,
Awst 15, 1862: yn 61 oed.
Hefyd am CATHERINE, eu merch,
a gladdwyd, Mawrth 10ed 1886:
yn 50 oed.
Lee.
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HI Lee
That's fantastic thank you. Can't believe you've found so much.
Ceri
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I have the Gwytherin baptism and burial records post 1812 transcribed and loaded into a database so I can do searches online :)
And I have the marriages transcribed too, I just need to load them.
I'm still testing at the moment but if you send me a PM I'll give you the web address and a login so you can search for yourself.
You can also downlaod the photo of the headstone from http://www.clwyd-mi.co.uk
Lee.
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Hi Ceri
I saw your post about Owen Williams, I think we are related. I am married to your cousin and have been researching the Family Tree for nearly 20 years. Look forward to hearing from you. Sally & Mark
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Hi Sally, merry Christmas. Couldn't believe you found my post on here but I was trying to build on the sterling research you and Mark have done on our family. After 20 years I'm sure you've found far more than I have but if you'd like to share information send me your e mail address and I'll send you any information I have. Great to hear from you, Ceri
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Hi Ceri
Would love to exchange information but don't like the idea of posting my e-mail address on rootsweb for all to see. Is there a way to contact you without having to make my address public.
Cheers
Sally and Mark
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Hi Sally, Meant to say that you can send a private message on Rootschat so you can keep things out of the public eye. Hope that's ok Ceri