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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rol on Wednesday 29 April 09 20:28 BST (UK)
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I would be most grateful for any information that readers of the Devon boards can provide about this family.
First, I should mention a thread with a similar subject-line that has been running (until today) on the Northumberland Lookup Requests board. Although the family concerned seems to have moved about a good deal, that board was originally selected because Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, the individual named in this and the Northumberland topic headings, was apparently born in that county -- per an entry in FreeBMD, which matched her unusual name exactly and showed the RD as Tynemouth and the reference as vol. 25, p. 453. However, no Northumberland board reader proved able to spot any clear Tyneside references to her (other than the FreeBMD birth index ref. itself) or to her parents, so I recently went ahead and made an application to the GRO for a full certificate of the underlying register entry . . .
The cert. has just arrived -- and it turns out that the relevant FreeBMD volunteer had thoroughly mistranscribed the name of the RD (fortunately the vol. and p. were correct and Southport did not reject the application). The true place was Plymouth, not Tynemouth! I have of course submitted a correction to FreeBMD; but to make further progress I now obviously need to bring my enquiry to the attention of the genealogical experts of Devon . . .
Ideally, to get the proper back-story, readers of this first Devon post will click here (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,371267.0.html) to be taken to the beginning of the Northumberland thread. That topic is now locked, and at the end carries a forwarding link to this new topic. But here is the key Plymouth information provided by the newly received GRO birth certificate.
Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne (Cleo) was born on 11 January 1844 and her father was John Burgoyne of Raleigh Street in the parish and sub-registration district of St Andrew, Plymouth, a builder (who later went on to style himself a civil engineer); her mother was Susan Smith Burgoyne (née Giles). Per the GRO indexes, in Q1 1840 there was a marriage in Plymouth RD between a John Burgoyne and a Susan Smith Giles (vol. 9, p.445) -- and an application has just been sent to Southport for that certificate.
The evidence set out on the Northumberland board shows that the family was at Newbridge Co. Kildare by 1852, where a daughter was born (Reply 23), and travelled from the Bahamas to Baltimore in 1853 (Replies 2 and 5). By the 1860s they were back in Ireland, living at Dundalk (Replies 6, 30, 31, 33 and 35). Replies 2 and 5 hint that by 1853 John Burgoyne was a widower; it is not yet known where or when he died himself.
Cleo's later career is discussed at length in the Northumberland thread: from her marital troubles it is known that she was alive in 1877 (Replies 10 and 12), but not what subsequently became of her. Her sister Maria Theresa (the one born ca. 1852 at Newbridge Co. Kildare) married Philip -- later apparently known as John -- Bishop in Lewisham during Q2 1876, moved to Paddington, Hackney and Walthamstow, and had three daughters, who were all married with children of their own by the time of the 1911 census (Replies 22-25).
Cleo and her sister had one other identifiable sibling (currently only known from UK-based evidence thanks to Reply 5), who was called John Thomas Burgoyne. Through internet-searching with the information in Cleo's birth certificate, I have just found some posts on the Anc***ry.com message board dedicated to the surname Burgoyne, which go far towards revealing his later life: he qualified as a doctor in Dublin and emigrated to Australia, leaving numerous descendants (with whom I am now tentatively initiating contact) -- click here (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/burgoyne/2008-05/1209679370) to read para 3 of the key message (as gatewayed to Rootsweb) and here (http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.burgoyne/153/mb.ashx) for the full story.
So, with that wordy background, on to the Burgoynes' Devon origins . . . and over to you experts!
Rol
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Plymouth Charles :
Susan Smith Giles 15.11.1818 Thomas and Elizabeth father : whitesmith
Fizzy
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Plymouth St Andrew :
15.11.1812
Thomas Giles and Elizabeth Prouse married
Plymouth St Charles :
Children bap to Thomas and Elizabeth Giles :
19.09.1813 - Elizabeth Prouse mason Hows Lane
24.12.1815 - Thomas whitesmith Richmond Street
09.09.1821 - Sally whitesmith Frankfort
15.11.1818 - Susan Smith whitesmith Frankfort Place
Fizzy
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Hurray it's coming together..
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Yes, many thanks for that info, Fizzy -- and good to find Cleo's loyal Northumbrian fan club staying in the hunt!
I wonder where Susan's middle name "Smith" originated? Evidently not the usual mother's-maiden-name source. Surely her father couldn't have used her christening to celebrate his change of job -- could he? So perhaps a nod to a godparent.
Now what about those Burgoynes . . .
Rol
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There are possibilities for John Burgoyne, some of which mention Raleigh Street BUT I would rather wait on that one until you have the marriage certificate and Johns fathers name.......
However I suspect that he will be the son of William Burgoyne and Dorothy Maddick who wed in Kingsbridge in 1807 and had John bap at Plymouth Charles in 1817.
If you look at the census for 1841 Plymouth St Andrew, you can see a huge part of the Burgoyne family living as builders etc in Raleigh Street. John of course is there with Susan.
Fizzy
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Much appreciate those early indications about John Burgoyne's possible parentage. It will indeed be easier to advance with confidence once his marriage certificate arrives (and I shall post the key details here as soon as available).
In the meanwhile, I need scarcely add, any clues from readers who have come across other potentially relevant data will remain most welcome.
No responses have come in yet from any of the 2008 contributors to that Burgoyne message board.
Rol
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JOHN BURGOYNE'S DEATH + WILL
A very helpful member of staff at PRONI has e-mailed me an extract from the old Dublin PPR probate calendar, which advances matters usefully:
BURGOYNE John 2 March [1874] Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of the personal estate of John Burgoyne late of Magdala Villa Belvidere County Kent England C.E. deceased who died 13 June 1873 at same place were granted at the Principal Registry to Maria Teresa Burgoyne of 21 Saint George’s-road London County Middlesex Spinster Daughter of deceased the Residuary Legatee. Effects under £1,500
I had discovered via the UHF site that there was one single Burgoyne entry in the 1858-78 consolidated Irish calendar, and I wanted to check whether it concerned Cleo's father or not before making plans for a (seemingly less promising) search at the PPR in London. In the event, given that he had moved back to England, there should almost certainly be a parallel English admon grant with will annexed: so an expedition to High Holborn ought to prove fruitful -- and avoid the need to send off to PRONI for the Irish edition. (Presumably "C.E." was a recognised marker for a civil engineer, rather than a very obscure Victorian gong?) The implication of the form of the grant may well be that the testator failed to appoint a valid -- or any -- executor.
The date of death in the calendar entry sent me straight to FreeBMD, and sure enough there is a GRO death for a John Burgoyne in the right RD -- Dartford -- in Q3 1873 (not unreasonable as only 17 days' delay were needed to push the registration quarter back from Q2 to Q3); and the age-at-death was recorded as 54 -- the first chance to attach an age to him, given that he seems to have missed all the English censuses except the imprecise 1841. This would match a birth between June 1818 and June 1819: not quite an exact fit with Fizzy's 1817 Plymouth Charles baptism (Reply 5 above), but certainly "within shouting distance". (Belvedere is apparently in the parish of Erith -- I wonder if his MI has been transcribed?)
Anyway, one way and another life was pretty difficult for Cleo round about 1873-74 . . .
GRANT'S PUBLIC FAMILY TREE
I was also able to visit the local library for a short while on 1 May (unusual for me), and used the opportunity to gain fuller access (via the Anc***rylibrary.proquest scheme) to the "public family tree" placed online at Anc***ry.com by Grant -- the man who posted extensively last year as "grant_4" on the Burgoyne message board.
Unfortunately the library's printer was not working and I only had time to make brief handwritten notes; but it was very clear that Grant was satisfied that Cleo's father John Burgoyne was indeed the son of William Burgoyne and Dorothy Maddick -- just as hypothesised by Fizzy -- and that the baptism at Plymouth Charles on 23 December 1817 was the right one. John is shown as having two siblings, another William (1811- . . . .) and Sarah Hardy (1814-1815).
For those Burgoyne-watchers who have an Anc***ry sub. and so can gain easy access to it, Grant's public tree is well worth a look: I just wish that it had also been made truly open to all via the allied Rootsweb WorldConnect format. Like her father as a young man, Cleo's grandfather William Burgoyne is described as living in Raleigh Street, Plymouth, and earning his living as a builder (1841 and 1851 censuses). He is said to have been born at Kingsbridge, Devon, in 1783, and to have married Dorothy Maddick there on 11 August 1807. He is shown as buried at Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth, on 30 March 1854, aged 71 years. (Any MI?) His siblings are listed as Sarah b.1780, Mary Bellamy 1785, Martha Randall 1788, Susanna Randall 1795, Ann 1795 and finally Andrew Randall 1798 (d.1861).
A quick examination suggests that Grant has sourced his work pretty securely. He carries the male line back three generations further -- through two more William Burgoynes (1749-1829 and 1720- . . . . ) to a John Burgoyne, born in 1680.
However, unless in my haste I missed it, or he has omitted to keep his public tree up to date with his underlying research, Grant does not yet seem to have uncovered the will and date of death of John Burgoyne the civil engineer, nor the existence and careers of the two sisters of his direct ancestor John Thomas -- who together, of course, have been the main focus of attention in this thread and its Northumberland predecessor. So perhaps there are some surprises ahead for him!
Does Grant's work inspire fresh thoughts about the Burgoynes or open up new perspectives for anybody?
Rol
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Rarararara for my detective work being right. As you have the tree from Grant (can you not get in touch with him via Ancestry), I dont need to go through the records I have.
I found the Kingsbridge connection but not as far back as Grant.
Fizzy
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Yes -- certainly a feather for the cap there, Fizzy! And I much appreciate your help.
As to contacting Grant, no success so far; but doubtless somebody will let him know about this thread before long, or Google will eventually point him here.
The trouble with the Anc***ry internal messaging system is that they block users of their "community" pages who are not paying subscribers from initiating any contact through it -- all communication has to be started the other way round. Like many people, Grant has not opened up his e-mail address to the world (probably with a prudent eye to the spam-merchants), so that direct route is not available to me either. Also, as you will perhaps have seen, there have so far been no signs of life in response to my post on the open-access Burgoyne message board (so active last summer). Anyway, I shall await developments.
I hope that I have not entirely dissuaded you from looking at your own records, Fizzy. I don't know whether you yourself have access to Grant's tree (I have only had the limited access described in Reply 7 above), but I would be most grateful if you were able to cast your eye over it and report whether it contains anything that you can expand upon from your own sources; or indeed if it asserts anything with which you substantially disagree.
Rol
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The 1840 marriage certificate has now arrived from the GRO. Here are the main points:
On 15 January 1840, at Ebenezer Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Plymouth, John Burgoyne, of full age, bachelor, a builder, of Raleigh Street, Plymouth (son of William Burgoyne, builder) was married to Susan Smith Giles, of full age, spinster, [no occupation], of 37 Bedford Street, Plymouth (daughter of Thomas Giles, whitesmith), in the presence of James Burgoyne and Thomas Giles.
All of which serves to provide -- in combination with Cleo's birth certificate -- final confirmation for the identity of her paternal and maternal grandfathers.
Rol
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You have the Burgoyne history previous to this via "Grant".
What about the Giles or arent you interested in that side of the family ?
Fizzy
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Fizzy
I "have the Burgoyne history . . . via Grant", but only to the restricted degree already explained. Plus people other than Grant may have some wisdom to offer on the topic -- just like you! Perhaps someone who has done a lot of work on Kingsbridge families and tripped over a reference or two to the Burgoynes in the process. No harm asking, anyway.
I know a lot about my own little patch of expertise in Wales -- but I fear that I am a complete beginner when it comes to Devon.
My main focus in this thread has certainly been the Burgoynes. But the Giles family have inevitably come onto the agenda thanks to that wedding. All is grist to the mill!
Very grateful for your continued interest.
Rol
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I know this thread is over a year old now, but if anyone is still out there and interested, it would appear that Cleopatra had a son, John Cecil Power who became MP for Wimbledon and was made baronet.
It would also appear that Cleo married Augustus Joseph Enever in the 1870s post divorce from William Power and emigrated to USA (Cleveland) - probably to leave all her travails behind her in England
I have other info if there is an interest
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Hi Moatville -- and other Cleo-Hunters,
Many thanks for posting that! It has administered a necessary prod in my ribs, because I have been feeling rather guilty for not finding time to update the thread since last June, when I first spotted the Ohio BMD info added to the LDS site -- and then similar info on Ancestry.com, plus some Public Family Tree matches that did not seem to be there when this chase started. I then went digging in the censuses on both sides of the Atlantic, where my fingerprints are on quite a few transcription corrections designed to put the spot light on how the indexers had previously thrown us off her trail. If you have been digging into all this too, you have probably seen and relished one of their classics: Cleopatra with her new husband in the UK 1881 census for Croydon, indexed as "Aeopaha"! But the covering of her tracks there was a joint effort, because the enumerator went and entered her husband as "Enerer"; and Cleo had her illegitimate son put down as a "visitor" and reversed his GRO registered forenames to turn him into James S Bennett, not Samuel James Bennett. It turns out that Cleo and her son sailed for the New World from Glasgow on 24 Nov. 1885.
I was glad to discover that the Burgoyne tradition of favouring imperial forenames did not die out, given that Cleopatra in this case went for an Augustus . . . But the end of the story was quite sad, as you have also probably seen -- they both died at Cleveland, Ohio, still in their sixties and 10 days apart, in February 1911 (so one suspects some epidemic disease, or even an accident). And poor James Enever né Samuel Bennett turns out to have been blind, per US draft exemption card for WW1 and the census, and had to earn what living he could as a piano tuner. He died childless on 11 Feb. 1943, also at Cleveland, and it looks as though Augustus and Cleo also produced no surviving children; so he had no half-siblings from that union, and with his death the Burgoyne illegitimate line came to an end.
Still, it is a great thing to have discovered what became of her -- I had thought for quite a while that she was going to be successful in giving us all the slip!
Well done for following down what happened to Cleo's children by her first husband, William Power (though that perhaps is how your attention was first attracted to this matter, and you were "coming up the other way"?). I had been keeping that part of the tale off-stage, until we had finally wrapped up what became of Cleo herself; I feared that all the baronetcy stuff would prove quite a distraction and draw attention away from the person who I thought should be the thread's leading lady!
It is an irony that after all her tribulations, Cleo's son John Cecil Power and his brother became very rich as London property developers. Their company was the driving force behind the building of Kingsway. As you say, John went into parliament in the Conservative interest and was granted a baronetcy (which continues).
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the write-up in Burke's P&B is -- shall we say -- a little reticent on the subject of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne. At some point someone must have decided that "Cleopatra" was a trifle too distinctive, so her name appears as Cecilia only, her father is labelled with the questionable prefix "Col" -- and she is stated to have left the scene very permanently in 1874, perhaps in consequence of those uncomfortable reports in the newspapers. Here is her para in the article on Power of Newlands, Baronets:
WILLIAM TAYLOR POWER, of Eldon House, Co. Down: m Cecilia (d 1874). dau of Col John Burgoyne, and d 29 Nov 1918, leaving:
1 Frederick Joseph: b 21 April 1869; d 24 July 1936
2 Sir John Cecil Power, 1st Bt (UK), so cr 1 Feb 1924, b 21 Dec 1870; MP (C) Wimbledon Oct 1924-June 1945 ... and d 5 June 1950
Genealogy can be full of surprises . . .
Rol
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Hi Rol -yes you guessed right - I was coming at this from the other way. My interests are through the Ballagh/Power connections, my wife being a Ballagh
Some more facts and deductions. I believe that the Powers and the Burgoynes joined forces in some way in Co Louth and this manifested itself in Cleos marriage to William Taylor Power.
Before this, Williams father, John Power, had established himself as the proprietor of the Belfast Hotel in Holywood, 4 miles east of Belfast. I believe that William, Cleo and John all ended up in Holywood and indeed could have been there before the marriage.
William had a sister Sarah, who married John Ballagh, a coal merchant/importer and gas plumber of great repute in the area.
John Burgoyne is recorded in newspapers and street directories as a founding member and director of the Holywood Gas Company, a Town Commissioner and Head of the Police Commission in Holywood. (Could this have carried the rank of Col??)
(Didnt they extract gas from coal in Victorian times?)
Ballagh = coal and gas
Burgoyne = Gas and Property
Power = Property
ONE BIG HAPPY VICTORIAN CAPITALIST FAMILY!
The Power family are known to have considerable property interests around Holywood at the timeand seem to have transferred their interests to London over time
Finally - I noticed an old newspaper add for a house sale in Co Louth and the contact names were - you gueseed it - Burgoyne and Power, Holywood
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Hello all, after contact from Rol I have updated my website (www.ennever.com) with some of the latest info on Cleopatra and William Power. I was coming from the Augustus Enever angle and congratulate you on this excellent example of collaborative research.
There seem to be a few o/s questions and I don't know if you or others have looked at any of them....
1. Who was Samuel Bennett and has he been found in censuses (you'd expect him to be in the Herts area in 1871 but no trace as Bennett, Burgoyne or Bishop as far as I can see)?
2. Who is Hannah Burgoyne, gd of William & Dorothy, who is with them in 1851? It seems she may be the daughter of a George Burgoyne (there's one in Chelsea in 1841 but he was bc1796 so probably wouldn't be a son of William & Dorothy).
3. Do we know who Elizth Burgoyne is (and possibly children James & Jane in Raleigh St in 1841)?
Thanks everyone
Barry Ennever
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Just to add to my previous post...
Hannah bc1839 in Chelsea seems to be the child of George Burgoyne & Hannah Jones who married at St Martin in the Fields in 1835 or 36 (it's unclear) but I can't find the parish record of the marriage to identify any witnesses etc. Hannah was chr in Chelsea in 1839 and George was a joiner. This isn't a good match for the 1861 couple we find in Westminster in 1861 (George born in Doctors Commons c1808 and a draper) but with this lot you never know!
If anyone has an opportunity to do a lookup for us of the St Martin in the Fields marriage (Nov 1835 or 36) to see if witness names eg help us that would be excellent?
See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=491552.new#new for the request
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Hi again Moatville -- and greetings Barry; very good to see both your contributions.
The new Irish information (principally via Gale's 19th Century British Newspapers?) is very interesting; I have been having a further look at the Gale database myself, and I think that the links between John Burgoyne (JB) the clerk of works at Dundalk barracks and JB the Holywood-dweller do now look a fair bit stronger than I had originally thought. I hope to post further about that soon.
Barry, the question of whether JB had a sibling George Burgoyne seems well worth pursuing, so I am glad to see your bid for further info via the London/Middlesex board. For now it does appear to be the least implausible way of explaining the "granddaughter" Hannah, aged 11 and born Chelsea, who in 1851 was staying down in Plymouth with JB's parents William and Dorothy Burgoyne.
As you know from our direct exchange of e-mails, I was a little puzzled to see you write
... Hannah Burgoyne, gd of William & Dorothy, ... may be the daughter of a George Burgoyne (there's one in Chelsea in 1841 but he was bc1796 so probably wouldn't be a son of William & Dorothy).
On my reading of George's Chelsea census entry in 1841 (with da. Hannah aged 2), he is shown as a carpenter aged 30. The resulting birth year range 1806 to 1811 would, of course, fit fine with William and Dorothy's 1807 Kingsbridge marriage and the birth dates of their other known children. For the record, the ref. is HO 107 / 688 / 3 fo.43v p.31. (Via Anc***ry.com's index the surname currently -- i.e. pending the application of proposed corrections -- appears as Bengonyns ::) )
Maybe someone on the Devon board will be able to spot a baptism for George in a Plymouth parish, or even back in the Kingsbridge area (especially if he was the eldest child).
Rol
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Hi Rol, my apologies for the miscalculation, I can't even work out how I got the 1796 now, worrying!
George looks a likely candidate but a bit strange that we can't find a baptism when later children have been found. I think we'll be lucky to find marriage witnesses who confirm his parents/family so a baptism will be by far the best bet. Fingers crossed.
Barry
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Hello Rol & Moatville, I have just received a copy of a cutting from the Cleveland Plain Dealer announcing the death of Augustus J Enever, who 'married' Cleopatra. It records several things we know not to be entirely true but is fascinating nonetheless, it reports:
1. Augustus was the son of one of England's wealthiest corn merchants but lost his fortune through his association with a partner
2. He married a direct descendant of Sir John Burgoyne (who was (in)famous for his surrender of New York at Saratoga in 1777)
3. He travelled with Cleopatra and his son James to Scotland to regain health
4. He became 'state accountant' for Equitable Life Assurance Co in Cleveland, Ohio
5. Cleopatra lost her sight in a street car accident
6. One of a number of items left to his son James was a smelling salts bottle held by King George III at the time of his death
I'll keep digging but do we know if the link to Sir John Burgoyne is proved? I think he's recorded in the ODNB so that's my next task.
Barry
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Barry, that is a fantastic find!
I have just received a copy of a cutting from the Cleveland Plain Dealer announcing the death of Augustus J Enever [which contains assertions including that ...] 2. He married a direct descendant of Sir John Burgoyne (who was (in)famous for his surrender of New York at Saratoga in 1777)
... do we know if the link to Sir John Burgoyne is proved?
On Claim 2 -- to which you return in your closing para -- I think that we can say "Rubbish!" with reasonable confidence. (I touched on this in the last part of my Reply 17, a bit down on p.2 of the old Northumberland thread, plus in the first couple of paras of Reply 35 on the following page.) Gentleman Johnny's line is pretty well established, and there seems to be no room for any overlap. The sapper-field marshall's own son went into the RN and was the unfortunate captain of the experimental turret-ship HMS Captain (unstable and lost with nearly all hands in a storm).
I rather think that the Saratoga myth may have circulated in the Power family too. With the surname Burgoyne the temptations are all too obvious . . .
You are best placed to opine on Claim 1 -- and your website seems pretty conclusive about it.
Claim 3 could contain a grain of truth, to the extent that it does match Cleo's port of embarkation for North America. It would be good if we could find some Scottish refs. to their presence north of the border. Augustus does not appear to have sailed on the same vessel as Cleo (and her son by Bennett).
I would guess that Claim 4 about his accountancy job would be verifiable by too many readers of the obit to be a purely imaginary embellishment.
As to Claim 5 (Cleo being blinded in an accident), it is hard to know, in the absence of her being named in some press report at the time of the alleged accident. Maybe I missed it, but I do not recall seeing anything about her being blind in her US census entries.
The smelling salts story looks too bizarre to be entirely concocted, but who knows . . .
Does the article give us any clues as to the cause of death (husband and wife dying so nearly simultaneously)?
As you know, I entirely concur with the implications of your quote marks around the word married. No record anywhere that I can see.
Rol
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...and I missed this little gem, which I think we know to be fantasy:
Augustus & Cleopatra were married by Lily Langtry's father !!
On the 2 deaths, nothing unusual sadly...Cleopatra was visiting a friend 'when she was taken suddenly ill, dying two days later.' Augustus 'While attending her funeral took cold which soon developed into pneumonia.'
Barry
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Just in case we get lucky I've added a lookup request in the http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=494196.new#new for a lookup of the possible Jersey marriage.
Barry
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Well done! Fingers crossed.
R
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Well, Barry, your CI look-up request has really paid off -- and thanks to the great help there of Jersey Lily we now have this information (re-posted here for ease of ref.):
Oh ye of little faith!
From the St Helier Town Church marriage records, volume 1875-1878, Page 197
April 23rd 1878
Augustus Jospeh Enever, aged 33, bachelor, occupation Corn Merchant, living in St Helier, born in Stepney, London. Father Augustus William Enever, occupation Accountant
to
Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, aged 33, widow of W Power, no occupation, living in St Helier, born in Plymouth. Father John Burgoyne, Captain R.E.
Witnesses David Gavey and George Boielle
Ceremony performed by William Corbet Le Breton
Hope this furthers your quest
As I have written in the look-up thread,
I suppose we must sympathise with [Cleo's] decision to claim that she was a widow -- a necessary fiction if the couple were to be allowed to marry in church, even with a fairly easy-going clergyman such as the Very Revd. WCLeB.
On the usually reliable evidence of the Army Lists, her father was working as a civilian on his RE projects, so (absent another surprise like this wedding entry you have found), she can reasonably be accused of some self-aggrandising vanity in calling him a Captain RE. Still, could have been worse -- in Australia her bottle-loving medical brother put it about that their father's rank was Colonel!
So, an excellent step forward.
Rol
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Hello rol et al, as I think said in an email this was an excellent example of collaborative research with so much help from so many of the contributors. I have just added a 'Cleo story' to my family history site which tried to tell the story from Cleopatra's perspective (well, she did marry an Enever but I apologise to those who have a different connection!). It is at http://www.ennever.com/histories/history15093.php (http://www.ennever.com/histories/history15093.php)and all thoughts/suggestions etc will be welcome.
Barry
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... I have just added a 'Cleo story' to my family history site which tried to tell the story from Cleopatra's perspective ... and all thoughts/suggestions etc will be welcome.
Congratulations, Barry. You have put together an excellent write-up, which draws together the various strands of what we have discovered to date -- and in a very well balanced way. It is great to have such a narrative account so readily accessible for reference on your Ennever site. The accompanying images of documents and source citations are also most useful.
It is kind of you to credit individual RootsChat contributors in the footnotes as you have. Of course, it is impractical to name all the many people who have added value to our communal pot of info; but I think I would like to put in a special word for Michael Dixon, because he was the one who discovered those very revealing press reports about the court affiliation proceedings, and unravelled a good deal of info about Cleo's sister "the Empress of Austria" (aka Maria Theresa) and her Bishop marriage -- which in turn produced the census evidence suggesting that John Burgoyne may well have been working at the Curragh barracks complex at the time she was born.
Reading sections of the two threads again, I am struck by the many gaps that remain about the Burgoyne family's time in Ireland. It still galls me that that John's Irish will seems to have been lost in the Four Courts fire, with no surviving solicitor's draft or extracted copy having yet turned up -- nor even a Kentish MI that might tell us more about his final employment as a clerk [of works??] at Woolwich Arsenal. Given that Maria Theresa was made executrix and lived in London, there really ought to be a copy of the missing will in some English solicitor's file of client papers. One day . . .
Turning back to the Enever connection, I note that your present wording says this about Augustus's activities before he emigrated:
It is probably true that Augustus Joseph's father, Augustus William Enever, was a relatively successful business man but it was his brother, Frederick Francis (Frank) Enever, who owned or ran the corn merchants. Augustus William is always recorded as a clerk, commercial traveller and an accountant and lived in London while the corn business was operating in Banbury, Gloucestershire. The company's headed notepaper suggesting some success as it carries a royal monogram and the legend "As Supplied To The Royal Farms". This falls some way short of the obituary's headline of 'Once Master of British Commerce', a sub-heading of 'Once Controlled Large Industries in England' and its content which reads 'The son of one of England's wealthiest corn merchants, a power in the London corn exchange, owner of a fleet of vessels'.
Well I think that I have now found some "chapter and verse" on more of the Cleveland Plain Dealer's claims -- at least in the sense that it does seem true that before leaving the UK Augustus had ceased to operate as a clerk and/or corn exchange dealer for his uncle's firm at Banbury, and had indeed struck out in business on his own account with a partner. Clear evidence of this appears in a notice of dissolution of partnership published in the London Gazette just a few months before he sailed for America, which tells us that he had been occupying accommodation in the City at the New Corn Exchange in Mark Lane, and used warehouse space across the Thames at 86-87 Bankside. His partner -- errant or not -- was one George Imson Goodhart.* See the London Gazette (http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/1884-07-01/page=3024/start=1), 1 July, 1884 (p.3024). More digging with those specifics could just reveal some additional info. (As well as the usual genealogical databases, might just be worth a long shot or two in the Gale 19th c. Newspaper database?)
Rol
* ADDED: As background, albeit rather off-topic, the LMA database of London Marriages 1754-1921 (available via An***try.com) includes an image from Hampton PR recording his marriage. This occurred on 26 Jan. 1886 and describes him as 33, bachelor, merchant, the son of Charles Emanuel Goodhart, Esquire. The 1891 census has him living with his family at the Limes, Bromley, still a corn merchant, born Beckenham, Kent: RG12/631 fo.75r&v, pp.23-24. The GRO records his death in Q1 1902 aged 49 -- Kingston RD, vol.2a, p.300. He may not have died in great prosperity, because nothing seems to show up for him in the online index to the probate calendars. See also the information shown here: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/o/t/Rosemary-Cotton/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-1022.html
But N.B. that conclusions about his economic standing may well be premature, because at the time of writing the annual calendars for certain years were (and today remain) missing from Anc***ry.com's probate database. One of these gaps relates to the years 1899-1903 inclusive -- Words from "But" ADDED 10 Jan. 2011.
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For curiosity's sake, here is some supplementary material about the family of Augustus Enever's London business partner. Googling suggests that the Goodharts had made a fortune refining West Indian sugar in Limehouse (East End of London). William Rubinstein, the economic historian who has specialised in using probate information to analyse patterns of wealth in the UK, refers to the family in an article entitled Jewish top wealth-holders in Britain,1809-1909 (http://www.jhse.org/book/export/article/21930). Towards the end he notes that
In a surprising number of cases it has not been possible to ascertain with certainty whether the person listed was definitely Jewish. In cases of doubt, one or two question marks have been placed before the name, one indicating probability and two considerable doubt. While it is likely that some in this last category were actually not Jewish, they have been noted here for completeness.
In the list appended to the main article he shows
?
1853/26
Emanuel Goodhart (1772-1853)
Sugar refiner in Limehouse
£100,000
In Note 3 within the main text he states that
In addition, the following wealth-holders had Jewish fathers or grandfathers, but non-Jewish mothers, and appear not to have had any connection with the Jewish community: ...
Charles Emanuel Goodhart (1818-1903), son [of] Emanuel Goodhart (d.1853)
£179,308
This website (http://www.bromleytotheairport.co.uk/116/) states that in 1820 Emanuel Goodhart (there spelt Goodheart) bought a portion of the old Langley estate at Beckenham from its owners the Burrells (who were by then Lords Gwydyr). It seems that he built a new house there and
Under Emmanuel Goodheart the Langley properties were well maintained. Several pictures of the mansion and gardens from those times still exist in the local history section of the Bromley Central Library.
One interesting architectural feature of the Mansion is that the Star of David appears on all the cast iron rainwater hoppers. The Langley farmhouse had been demolished to make way for the Mansion but some of the original kitchen gardens were retained in beds around the house; the idea is said to have been that rainwater passing through the hoppers was then blessed on its way to the plants..
On the death of his father in 1853, Charles Emmanuel Goodheart inherited the Langley properties. In 1884 however CE Goodheart decided to sell the mansion and part of Langley Farm to JL Bucknall, a sale which was completed on 13th November 1884.
It seems that Augustus Enever's partner George (son of Charles Emanuel Goodhart) had a brother called Frederick, who emigrated to the USA -- and there married the heiress of the McCormick farm machinery fortune. The pair later built themselves a substantial house near Washington DC, which they christened "Langley Park", and in the US National Register of Historic Places appears the following account of the Goodhart family (some English portions of which seem to invite further enquiry):
In 1921, Frederick and Henrietta McCormick-Goodhart came to the Washington area. Frederick Goodhart (1854-1924) was the son of Charles Emanuel Goodhart of Langley Park in Beckenham, Kent, England. Frederick Goodhart had first come to the United States in 1883 regarding a Utah mine in which his father had an interest. Spending some time in Chicago during this trip, he met and became engaged to Henrietta McCormick (1857-1932), niece and daughter, respectively, of Cyrus and Leander McCormick of McCormick Reaper fame. They were married in November 1883 and went to England to live at the groom’s ancestral home, Langley Park. Their two sons, Leander and Frederick Hamilton McCormick-Goodhart, were born in England in 1884 and 1887. Frederick McCormick-Goodhart practiced law in England, then entered politics, running unsuccessfully for a Conservative seat in the House of Commons in 1900 and 1905. ... Their two sons were educated at Eton and Oxford.2 The family spent most of their time in England, with occasional trips to the United States to spend time with Henrietta’s family. In 1899, at the request of Henrietta’s father, Frederick, through a “Royal Licence”, added McCormick to his surname, and the family name officially became McCormick-Goodhart.3 In 1913, the Elizabethan house at Langley Park in Kent was destroyed by fire, and in 1920 Frederick and Henrietta McCormick-Goodhart decided to settle in the United States. ...
[NOTES:]
1 McCormick-Goodhart, Henrietta, Hands Across the Sea, privately printed, 1921; McCormick, Leander J., Family Record and Biography, Chicago, 1896; telephone interview with Leander McCormick-Goodhart, September 2007
2 McCormick-Goodhart, Henrietta, op.cit.
3 McCormick-Goodhart, Henrietta, op.cit., p. 56.
(PDF available via National Park Service website -- Google's html version here (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sWrQSyYSMoEJ:www.nps.gov/nr/feature/weekly_features/LangleyPark.pdf+%22Charles+Emanuel+Goodhart%22&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk) -- then enter Charles Emanuel Goodhart into browser's Page Search field)
The privately printed memoirs mentioned in the notes sound interesting, but it might well prove difficult to locate copies.
Rol
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The privately printed memoirs mentioned in the notes sound interesting, but it might well prove difficult to locate copies.
But not as difficult as all that, I have just discovered: the entire text of Hands Across the Sea has been uploaded into An***try.com's Stories Memories and Histories section! I foresee a spot of browsing coming up later today . . .
R
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Well now, here are some brief extracts selected from the above-mentioned Hands Across the Sea, by Henrietta McCormick-Goodhart (1921).
pp.36-37 [images 2_36a and (continuation of text) 2_37b]
The Goodharts are descended from an ancient family of Hesse-Cassel. Emanuel Goodhart, son of John Henry, came to England in 1755 and married Charlotte Imson, whose parents came from Hanover with George I. There are now in the possession of their descendants a large silver inkstand, a table with an engraved silver top, a diamond cluster ring, and other gifts, presented to Miss Imson's mother by George II and Queen Caroline.
Emanuel was one of the founders of the Phoenix Assurance Company and of the Pelican Life Office, both of London, in 1782. His son Emanuel, born in 1772, was Deputy Lieutenant for the County of Kent.
The family seat, Langley Park, near Beckenham, Kent, is an ancient deer park and is mentioned in Domesday Book. The house was originally a fine Elizabethan mansion flanked by two towers facing an avenue of chestnut trees over a mile long. ...
There was formerly another residence on the property, "Langley Farm," and there still exists a smaller house with massive columns, "Langley Lodge," in which my husband was born. ...
Emanuel married the daughter of the Reverend Peter Thomas Burford, and had a number of children, of whom the youngest, Charles Emanuel, my husband's father, inherited the property.
Charles was educated at Harrow and Oxford ... He married in 1846 Elizabeth, the eldest daughter of Captain Jacob Settle, R. N., whose ancestors for over four hundred years lived at Northcote near Settle in the West Riding of Yorkshire. The old house is still standing with the coat-of-arms of the family and the original date upon it. Elizabeth's mother, Maria Catarina di Stella, was the daughter of a Genoese nobleman, whose parents fled for their lives in an English frigate to Gibraltar from Genoa to escape from the insurrection which took place there in 1796. Elizabeth's eldest brother, an officer in the army, together with his wife and several children, were massacred and thrown down the well at Cawnpore during the Indian Mutiny in 1857.
p.38 [image 2_38a]
Charles and Elizabeth had five sons and four daughters, of whom my husband, Frederick, was the fourth son.
p.40 [image 2_40a]
Frederick Emanuel Goodhart was born at Langley Park, January 5, 1854.
As readers will probably have concluded for themselves by now, even if only a portion of the foregoing information cited from Hands Across the Sea is accurate (and it is true that the author's credibility is hardly boosted by her delicate omission of all mention of the sugar-refining trade), the surmise made by William Rubinstein about the ethnic origin of the Goodhart family does look pretty dubious: c.f. my Reply 28 above. It remains possible that they were Christian converts and had baptised their children to secure legal emancipation and wider economic opportunities; but if that were so, their hypothesised conversion would probably have antedated their arrival in the UK. Certificates attached to a deed scheduled by Essex RO record the baptism at St Anne's, Limehouse, Middlesex, of the Emanuel Goodhart who was born in 1772 (bapt. 3* May that year) and of his elder brother Jacob (bapt. 18 Nov. 1770) -- both being entered in the register as sons of Emanuel Goodhart, "sugar baker or refiner", by Charlotte his wife. (See D/DB T208/57 (http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/result_details.asp?GDH=1&DocID=322139&Reference=D/DB%20T208/57), a deed of 1831 concerning a trust interest in some property that was once vested in "Jacob Goodhart of Great Ilford Esq." -- by then described as "deceased".)
My short investigations have turned up little to substantiate Rubinstein's theory. Others may be able to find more decisive information than I have -- if so, they may like to know that there is a wealth of references to the family to be found in the excellent Sugar Refiners and Sugar Bakers Database (http://home.clara.net/mawer/sugarggoy.html), including a mention of Emanuel Goodhart snr.'s denization and naturalisation papers of 1784 (yes, he did indeed come from Hesse-Cassel -- from Borcken, in fact). But this thread is not really the place to pursue the matter much further. Still, the occasional diversion down such byways can prove irresistibly tempting!
Rol
* 3 May 1772, not 4 May as originally posted -- nor 31 May as proposed in the message immediately below this one. (Corrected 1 Dec. 2010.)
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Chasing up the Goodhart discussion - Emanuel Goodhart was baptised at Saint Anne, Limehouse on 31st May 1772
(Ancestry.com, Provo, UT, USA, London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 (from Church of England Parish Registers, 1538-1812. London Metropolitan Archives and Guildhall Library Manuscripts, London), SAINT ANNE, LIMEHOUSE, Composite register: baptisms Jul 1747 - Sep 1783, burials Oct 1783 - Mar 1786, 1747 Jul-1786 Mar, P93/ANN/002, image 79).
One assumes that this means that they did not pursue the Jewish faith!
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Hello JasperMzee -- and a warm welcome to the site!
As you will have seen from the end of my preceding post, I am a bit concerned that I may be in danger of taking this thread uncomfortably far off-topic with the -- fascinating -- story of the Hessian Goodharts (Gothardts/Gothards?) and their sugar "pile". I think it is generally best not to allow "cuckoos in the nest" to grow too big, so I have decided to give the Goodharts a home of their own, here (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=499174.new#new) on the London & Middlesex board. If you follow the link you will see my reply to your post (for which many thanks) over in that new thread. I look forward to reading your response there.
I invite others drawn to this thread by the Goodhart connection to post their thoughts in the London thread, unless the subject matter concerned has direct relevance to Cleo's husband's business partner and any mutual dealings. I shall do likewise.
Rol
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I see Cleopatra now has enough information to write a book about her, and theres more - PRONI have just released digital images of nearly 100000 wills and therein lies the will of her first father in law John Power. Boy did he not like Cleopatra. I will paraphrase a section of the will
His son William ( Cleo's husband was to inherit the vast majority of the Power empire 'but subject to the following express conditions that is to say if my said son William Power shall at any time cohabit with his present wife Cleopatra Power otherwise Burgoyne or reside in any house where she may live or reside the payments of The annual produce of said residue and rents of my estate to my son William Power shall forthwith cease and be discontinued until he shall cease residence of cohabitation with his said wife and also from time to time in future if my said son should cohabit or reside with his wife the said amassed payments shall forthwith cease and be discontinued during the time of such cohabitation it being my express wish and desire that no part of my property whether freehold or chattel shall ever go for the support of the said Cleopatra Power otherwise Burgoyne or any of her family or any family that she may have with the exception of the eldest little girl Susan Amelia Power and the oldest boy Frederick Joseph Power .....'
The will is dated 30th Dec 1873 - there is no mention of the third son John Cecil Power (baronet in waiting).Cecilia was not popular at all - I wonder, just wonder if she had been unfaithful... why is John Cecil in the will when all other known grandchildren are catered for (not cited here but in other parts of the will)
I invite comments....
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Thanks for that , Moatville. Excellent to learn that PRONI have now made access available online for those NI wills. I had seen a paper copy of John Power's will (at the time the Northumberland thread was still on the go), but had forgotten quite how fierce the wording was. Good to have the details posted into the thread.
Cecilia was not popular at all - I wonder, just wonder if she had been unfaithful...
I invite comments....
Well, the press reports found by Michael Dixon do a great deal more than hint at that! Barry has now put one of them up on his website -- see this hypertext link (http://www.ennever.com/showmedia.php?mediaID=5284&medialinkID=8633).
I did wonder, as you seem to do as well, whether Power senior excluded John Cecil because he had suspicions about his paternity; but I am not sure that the evidence yet stacks up to substantiate such a belief.
Rol
P.S. For the record, in the sentence repeated below am I right in assuming that the word not [i.e. not left anything] was intended to appear between "John Cecil" and "in the will"?
... why is John Cecil in the will when all other known grandchildren are catered for (not cited here but in other parts of the will)
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yes you are quite right - I forgot to insert 'not'
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Excellent work, thanks guys. Who to select next for the Cleo fan club is the biggest question. Though somehow I doubt we're finished with Cleo just yet!
We do know from the 'Strange Affiliation Case' that the couple separated in about 1870 and that William went to San Francisco and that she claimed she had inadequate means for her support. The article also records that Cleopatra had lived with Bennett as his wife for 4 years.
A report of the same court case also appeared in Reynolds's newspaper but contains some additional information - it records that Cleopatra while in Hertford ie living with Bennett 'had her two children by her husband taken to her'.
John Cecil wasn't born until Dec 1870 and the three children were all definitely living in 1877 so I think the suspicion of Cleopatra's infidelity is just a little more likely as a result.
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G'day all. Long time thread reader, first time poster. And outing myself here - Limeburner Mitchell is the RootsChat nom de keyboard of the aforementioned 'Grant', upon whose occasionally accurate research some of this thread is based.
Sorry I've not contributed to date. Parental duties.
I am loving these latest developments. I find Moatville's 04 Dec post very amusing indeed.
With an apparently intemperate brother and a pretentious father I can't believe my second great grand aunt would behave in such a way. Really I can't. And the very idea about a baronetcy being founded on the wrong side of the sheets is powerfully outrageous.
With the pot-boiling tendencies of this thread appearing to be dangerously on the bubble again, I might try to bring back some good old-fashioned BMD facts into the mix. There's a few such things that don't relate directly to the Ptolemaic Queen that I thought I'd share.
Firstly, Cleopatra's father John Burgoyne, as you all know or suspect, was absolutely not related to Gentleman Johnny Burgoyne. As Rol has indicated, he spent time as a civilian developing sapper building projects, and appears to have wound up at Woolwich. He was neither a Captain nor a Colonel. He died at Magdala Villa, Belvedere, Kent on 13 June 1873. Particulars of possible interest from his death certificate are:
Cause of death: Disease of the heart P. M.. Age: 54. Occupation: Clerk, Royal Arsenal. Informant: Information received from C J Carltar, Coroner for Kent, inquest held 16 Jun 1873.
So within three days of John Burgoyne senior's passing there was not only a post-mortem, but also an inquest. I wonder what the circumstances of his death were that the coroner required an inquest?
Secondly - I'll preface this by saying I'm pathetic at Irish research. Well, perhaps 'pathetic' is a bit harsh - with a madcap two year old to look after I really don't have time to get started. However, after all this time it's a shame I don't have more about the sketchy Irish period to add. In particular, there's one aspect of the Irish picture to which I'd like the answer. And that is: whatever became of Cleo's mother, Susan Smith Giles? In early 2009, I believed I had found a death for her back in Plymouth in 1854. However, upon my further investigation, that proved to be quite another Susan Burgoyne. (I do apologise if my previously published research findings have led anyone to accept that Cleo's mum was out of the picture due to passing on in Devon in the mid 1850s!) So quite why Susan Smith Burgoyne was out of the picture, and where she exited it, I don't now know.
Thirdly, re Hannah Burgoyne - given the timing I initially wondered if she may well be one of the late William Burgoyne the younger's daughters with his wife Grace. However, the Chelsea baptism and 1841 Census entry have scotched that thought.
Just on William the younger - pending the possible discovery of other children baptised outside Plymouth St Charles - I have him as William and Dorothy's eldest child. William junior was a builder/property developer and - surprise - a Clerk of Works in the Royal Engineers. William the younger died in Hong Kong between 1847 and 1851. I have his will, proved in February 1851. He leaves pretty well everything to his dad, gives a nod to his mum and makes sure his wife Grace and ther children are duly cared for out of various property and insurance investments. No brothers/sisters named. Still, it's all pretty textbook stuff. Although ... I could have sworn I read somewhere he was bankrupted just a litle earlier in the 1840s. Perhaps something to chase up when my boy leaves home.
The only children of William and Dorothy I have definitive baptisms for are Sarah Hardy and John. That's covering the period 1814-16. These baptism records appear in the Devon Family History Society's index of Devon baptisms for 1813-1837. William the elder was a carpenter, and along with Dorothy was living in Jubilee Street and Water Lane, Plymouth St Charles during the period. It may be that George was baptised outside Plymouth Charles, or in a parish not covered by the Devon baptisms? Certainly there is other published research out there that indicates William and Dorothy had sons William (1807) and James (1808) before they left Kingsbridge. (James Burgoyne was a witness at John Burgoyne's marriage to Susan Smith Giles.)
Great work everyone.
Yours, in awe of the research on display here,
Limeburner Mitchell, about to hit the 5500 character limit ...
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Hi Limeburner, welcome!
Usual warnings etc but the IGI has an Elizth Rundall Burgoyne chr 1822, daughter of William & Dorothy.
Barry
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G'day Bennever,
Thanks for the welcome! And thanks for your excellent Ennever research! :)
And thanks for the tip-off about the 1822 Burgoyne baptism. You make excellent point. I am sure I did know that. It's probably in a pile of unprocessed genealogical printout in a folder under my desk somewhere. My son will probably get the pleasure of sorting through all that after he's moved me into appropriate aged care facilities.
In this case, the usual LDS-related warnings partially apply. I suspect the transcriber has confused a cursive 'Randall' for 'Rundall'.
The Randall (or Randle) family of Kingsbridge, Devon marry into the Blackawton-based Burgoyne family through the union between William and Martha Randall back on 10 Sep 1775. They're the grandparents of Elizabeth Randall Burgoyne born 1822 (and of course the parents of the William we're talking about here).
Actually, I think I recall William and Dorothy had another go at christening a 'Sarah Hardy Burgoyne' too, come to think of it. <Goes away, checks IGI, comes up trumps, cancels appointment with doctor to discuss fading memory>. Yep, there she is, born 16 July 1820, yet another poor Sarah Hardy Burgoyne who didn't make it past her 5th birthday, bless her.
I mentioned in my post yesterday that another researcher appeared to have found an earlier John (1807) and James (1809) born to William and Dorothy as well. A quick surf earlier proved this to be pretty true. There's some terrific Devon parish transcriptions I've not seen before on http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~our4bears/index.html that confirm this. One day I'll get in touch with the site admins to find out what else of the Burgoyne back story hasn't made it online yet. (Get well soon, Ray Osborn!)
Limeburner Mitchell, focussing on the Georgian Burgoynes (but still not finding your 'George')
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Hail, Grant! It is really good news that you are back "on the case". Your work is certainly the foundation of most of what we know of all these Burgoynes pre-1800 -- not to mention all the info you discovered about the life and descendants of Cleo's brother the medic. I was beginning to wonder whether some misfortune might have befallen you. (Worst case scenario: our remote descendants feeling the need to launch the 22nd century equivalent of a What Happened to Grant M? thread ;) ). Anyway, hope young Mitchell 2.0 is progressing well.
Thanks for your entertaining post. (I especially liked the Ptolemaic Queen -- we need to avoid running low on elegant synonyms, and that's a good'un!) The substance of what you have written prompts me to hunt out your long e-mail of 19 May 2009; I had a similar missive on the stocks to wing back to you, but was waiting for promised info from someone else before finishing up the text -- info which never showed up, with the consequence (I am sorry to realise) that my own missile never left the launch pad either. Still, I am glad you have been able to stay up to date with developments by keeping an eye on our collective musings here.
I must do more revision; but a couple of first reactions to your post of 05:34 GMT (5 December). First, I am disappointed to hear than the fate of the mother of Cleo + siblings is right back in the mystery zone -- as you say, in May last year the death in 1854 looked quite a reasonable bet. So now -- Ireland, the Bahamas, aboard ship, USA (following voyage there on another vessel) . . . ?? Back to the drawing board.
As you comment (and as did I too -- Reply 27), there are still too many gaps in the Irish part of the story. We ought to put in some more effort on that front.
Very well done in finding out what happened to John Burgoyne's elder brother William jnr. So he was a clerk of works for the RE too -- and went out to Hong Kong! That will was a good find -- evidently this one in the PCC index:
Will of William Burgoyne, Clerk of the Works in the Royal Engineer Department of Victoria Hong Kong , China
13 February 1851
It would be nice to discover more about his RE involvement, to see if there were any direct links with John's own. I think you did indeed say last year that you had found insolvency notices about William in the London Gazette. Do you still think it was the same man? One would have thought that the Soldiers of the Queen might have turned a bit awkward on hearing about that sort of thing . . .
I am glad you have posted up the details of John Burgoyne's 1873 death cert. Meant to do that near the start of this thread and never got round to it. I tried for press reports of the inquest, but failed to spot anything; probably should have persisted longer. My best guess was that the death was "sudden" and not immediately explicable -- i.e. he just dropped dead, and the medical people wanted to make quite sure it was his heart. Still, mere speculation, and it would be good to know more. I have an old lookup request on the RootsChat Kent board for some one to try and find an Erith-area MI for him; but no fish nibbled. Maybe worth trying some resuscitation over there (in a non-Transylvanian sense).
And let's all hope a suitable Devonian baptism turns up soon for George Burgoyne the London joiner.
Rol
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You have the Burgoyne history previous to this via "Grant".
What about the Giles or arent you interested in that side of the family ?
Fizzy
Hello there Fizzy, Rol, and readers.
Just stealing another rare moment at the keyboard.
Fizzy, I loved your early work in this thread and have missed your contributions as it has evolved recently.
As I'm now a lot time poorer than I was back in early 2009, I was wondering whether I might run three questions past you related to the quote above. Without introducing serious scope creep into the thread, that is.
Firstly, and least scope-creepy, have you access to anything that could confirm the parentage of the John Giles Burgoyne born in Plymouth in late 1840?
Secondly, and a bit more scope-creepy, any chance you might be able to identify a birth/baptism and parents for Thomas Giles in 1785? In the 1851 Census the enumerator lists his birthplace as Plympton.
Thirdly, how about Elizabeth Prowse/Prouse, Thomas Giles' wife? She's allegedly from Christow, according to the 1851 Census.
I'd be extremely grateful if you - or anyone else - could enlighten me on any of these matters. Many, many thanks in advance!
By the way Rol, thanks for yet another kind message. This hasty paragraph won't do it justice, of course. However, I should add for the record why I decided to reopen to speculation the ultimate demise of Susan Smith Burgoyne (both to ensure my conclusions are available to be challenged, but also because I keep making executive genealogical decisions without documenting them!). I now believe the Susan Burgoyne of Alfred Street, St Andrew Plymouth who was buried aged 31 at Ford Park cemetery on 09 Feb 1854 was the wife of William Burgoyne - no apparent relation. They were at Cambridge Street, Plymouth St Andrew in the 1851 Census.
Sorry to run. Better get this boy bathed and fed.
Cheers all,
Grant
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I take it all back! Cleo & William's divorce papers acknowledge 3 children from the marriage. There are 16 or so A5 pages so it's difficult to copy and to be honest there's not a lot of other new information but some salient points are:
Petition filed 6/5/1874
Decree nisi 7/11/1874
Final decree 25/5/1875
William gave his address in May 1874 as 34 Sherborne St, Islington, occupn Gentleman. He & Cleo resided in Belfast, London & 'divers other places' (not very helpful!). Cleo left to reside with Bennett in Dec 1872.
These papers are available to be copied from TNA for £9.40 plus P&P so may be worth ordering if you're interested (but as I say don't really add a great deal to what we already know). They do contain copy marriage & Samuel James Bennett's birth certs.
Barry
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... We do know from the 'Strange Affiliation Case' that the couple separated in about 1870 and that William went to San Francisco and that she claimed she had inadequate means for her support. The article also records that Cleopatra had lived with Bennett as his wife for 4 years.
A report of the same court case also appeared in Reynolds's newspaper but contains some additional information - it records that Cleopatra while in Hertford ie living with Bennett 'had her two children by her husband taken to her'.
John Cecil wasn't born until Dec 1870 and the three children were all definitely living in 1877 so I think the suspicion of Cleopatra's infidelity is just a little more likely as a result.
I take it all back! Cleo & William's divorce papers acknowledge 3 children from the marriage. There are 16 or so A5 pages ... some salient points are:
Petition filed 6/5/1874
Decree nisi 7/11/1874
Final decree 25/5/1875
William gave his address in May 1874 as 34 Sherborne St, Islington, occupn Gentleman. He & Cleo resided in Belfast, London & 'divers other places' (not very helpful!). Cleo left to reside with Bennett in Dec 1872.
"Acknowledgment" must carry some weight, of course. But that was legally the default setting, given that on so-called public policy grounds the law imposed quite a burden of proof on a husband who might wish to overturn the strong presumption that a child conceived by his wife while married (and not formally separated) must be his. If proof to the contrary was hard to establish, accepting such a child would often be the path of least resistance -- whether for reasons of altruism or otherwise.
One must add that it is pretty difficult to reconcile the chronology implied by the three different press reports of the 1877 affiliation case, let alone make them fully fit the account in the divorce file. And Old Man Power's will communicates a strong sense of resentment and suspicion about his younger grandson.
Still, on present evidence I am inclined to back John Cecil genuinely being William Power's child. His birth cert. looks pretty unexceptionable and the 21 December 1870 DoB it shows matches the one he later used (e.g. in the details he provided to Burke); it also agrees with the age of 3½ averred by his father in the divorce petition of May 1874. The cert. reproduces the original state register book entry, and comparison of the words "William Power" in the different columns indicates that the informant section was signed in the father's own hand.
Some of my earlier doubts were sown by the fact that the LDS's version of the Irish GRO index did not contain any suitable entries for 1870; the recorded John Power births for Antrim and Down were dated 1871, 1872 and 1874. That now seems to be fully explicable by William Power's slight delay in registering the birth -- which he did on 11 January 1871.
Another cause for suspicion was the version of events shown in the IGI, i.e. that the correct date was 21 December 1871. But the entry concerned was a "submitted" one, so always subject to more doubt than information derived from the quality-controlled "record extraction program". The normal distrust seems fully justified in the case at hand: the 1871 date for the birth shown in the IGI now just looks like a case of careless transcription.
There is also some contemporary photographic evidence bearing on the matter. William Power's two sons look so alike and close in age when pictured side-by-side as children that much of one's residual suspicion is allayed.
The motives that underlay John Cecil's exclusion from his grandfather's will may never become clear . . .
Rol
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Re Grants posting re Thomas Giles Burgoynes wife Elizabeth Prowse of Christow(1851 census). i am separated from my files at present but there were 2 Prowse families in Christow then and my lot was one of them.If you happen to know her parents or birthdate etc i will find out how she fits in.
The answer may help with another Burgoyne/Prowse puzzle. My gt gt grandfathers brother was Josias Prowse bp 1797 Christow.After his young wife died there in1825 Josias m 1830 Jane Burgoyne and they moved to the St Agnes tin mining area of Cornwall. Descendants in America are keen to find out about Jane Burgoyne.
many thanks DF
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G'day DF - welcome to RootsChat and to this thread!
I would be very happy indeed if through the course of this conversation we solve your Jane Burgoyne riddle. Especially as Josias and Jane wound up in St Agnes, the region wherein a very healthy proportion of my genetic inheritance bubbled about for generations.
All I know of Elizabeth Prowse/Prouse is this:
- according to the 1851 Census, she was born in Christow in about 1787
- she married Thomas Giles, silversmith in Plymouth St Andrew on 15 Nov 1812
- her known children with Thomas Giles were in order: Elizabeth Prouse (bp 1813); Thomas (bp 1815); Susan Smith (bp 1818); Sally (bp 1821); Sarah (bp 1826) and Stephen (bp 1826).
If Thomas and Elizabeth Giles followed textbook naming convention, Elizabeth's mother was also an Elizabeth. Her father would most probably have been either another Thomas, or Stephen.
Out of curiosity, how old was Jane when she wed Josias in 1830?
Kind regards,
Grant, dawdling online instead of getting off to work ...
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Prowse/Burgoyne.
Thanks for the info. It will be a few days before I am reunited with my records but will aim to answer by the weekend. As the second Prowse family had joined mine in Christow c 1760 and there were Elizabeths in both I will not guess the answer. Depending on the answer i may be able to help with the 'Smith' name.
I should have made it clear that I have not found the actual marriage date or place for Josias Prowse and Jane Burgoyne. Josias had 3 daurs from his first marriage of whom 2 surfaced in Cornwall as adults but most children incl the US branch came from the Prowse/Burgoyne union.
DF
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G'day again DF,
a couple of years ago the lovely people at the Devon Family History Society sent me lists of all the Burgoyne (var.) marriage transcriptions they had on record, as far back as 1754.
They show that 'James' Prowse married Jane Burgoyne in the South Hams parish of Loddiswell on 17 Nov 1836.
Probably some chance that this is your Josias and Jane, but do the dates stack up for you?
Incidentally, there's another Loddiswell marriage that may be of interest. Back on 28 July 1784, Thomas Prowse married Elizabeth Burgoyne there.
And while I'm introducing potential Prowse/Burgoyne red herrings, just for completeness, another James Prowse married Ann Burgoine in Churchstow on 02 Nov 1774.
Back to Josias and Jane for a moment.
The absolutely splendid folk at the Devon Family History Society also sent me transcriptions of Burgoyne (var.) baptisms going back to 1813. One of these indicates that Jane Lane Burgoyne was baptised in Loddiswell on the 05 Sep 1813. Her father was Robert Burgoyne of Loddiswell, a husbandman, and her mother was Catherine.
Just checking the Burgoyne (var.) marriages again, Robert Burgoine married Catharine Lane in Churchstow on 02 Feb 1802.
Hope these are helpful. Have a great day!
Cheers
Grant
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:)I was interested in your posts on the Burgoyne family of Plymouth. I am a descendant of the family of William Burgoyne and Dorothy Burgoyne nee Maddick. They had 7 children that I have been able to find - James b 1808 in Kingsbridge, John b 1817 in Plymouth, Sarah Hardy b 1820 d 1824, William b 1807 Kingsbridge, Elizabeth Randell b 1812 Plymouth. George (father of Hannah Burgoyne) and Frederick b 1814 in Plymouth d 1863 in Sierra Leone Africa. Frederick is my family line, he married Elizabeth Thomas in 1833 and they had two children, Frederick and Erwin. Elizabeth died in abt. 1839 and Frederick married Mary Courtis/Curtis in 1840. Sometime between 1841 and 1851 Frederick Jnr died and in 1843 Frederick William was born (my ggrandfather) they also had a daughter Mary Courtis who died in 1846 and twin sons Charles and Edward born 1847. Sometime after 1861 Frederick William came to Australia but unfortunately I have not been able to find him arriving in Australia. If you have any further information on this part of the family I would love to hear it. Burg
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Hello Burg,
Welcome to the forum, and especially to the Burgoyne of Plymouth thread.
Well, well. This family just keeps expanding! Have you got full chapter-and-verse data on the siblings you list? In particular, I wonder whether you have found a baptism for George; or perhaps you included him purely on the basis of the discussion here about him (esp. Replies 16-19). Also, it would be good to have the church/chapel and date of baptism for Frederick (b.1814).
I notice that Grant's tree* on the Anc***ry.com site includes a second William (b.1811), implying that the first one died young, but I am not sure that he has yet discovered a matching baptism.
Rol
* (Full title: Mitchell-Stephens Limeburner-Sadler Family Tree)
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Hi Rol. In answer to your question, no I do not have baptism dates for either George or Frederick. Only that Frederick was born 1814 in Plymouth Devon and as for George I am assuming that he is a brother of Frederick as he was a carpenter or Joiner like the rest of them. Frederick was also a carpenter/joiner and it was stated in his probate that he was an acting Engineer in the Royal Engineer Department of Her Majesty's War Office and he was in Sierra Leone on the West Coast of Africa. His wife is named as Mary Burgoyne of No. 73 Coburgh Street Plymouth widow.
I have not been able to find a census on this family for 1851, however, when in Plymouth about 20 years ago I tried to look at the fiche of these census and it was impossible to read. In the 1861 census, they are down as Mary Burgoine, William, Charles and Edward Burgoine and a niece Anna ( which I think is Hannah Burgoyne) this census address was Coburgh Street Plymouth. Hannah later married George H Jenkins an artist and Landscape Artist and they lived in Plymouth.
The William referred to in the 1861 census is actually Frederick William my g grandfather. In about 1992 we had a Mrs Guthrig of Plympton Plymouth do some research on our family and she was the one who found the birth date for Frederick and who his parents were. I will look forther in my reams of paper to see if I have any information on George or any other members of the family for that matter.
Burg
:)
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Hello again Burg, and many thanks for that extra info.
So we now have quite a pattern here. Three brothers working as civilian clerks of works on RE construction projects -- i.e. seemingly (at least later in their respective careers) acting as in-house managers rather than contracting builders/engineers, and probably with salaried positions.
1. William: works on the China Coast (Hong Kong).
2. John (Cleo's father): works in Ireland (Curragh + Dundalk).
3. Frederick: works in W. Africa (Sierra Leone).
I wonder which sibling made the first family breakthrough into this line of work. Could their father even have once had some similar rôle? Given that they all seem to have worked mainly overseas, another thought that stirs again in my mind is that John's mystery transatlantic travels in the early 1850s could also have been on War Office business. Barracks or fortifications in the Bahamas? And maybe the visit to Boston Baltimore was made en route to some analogous government project in Canada?
It is strange that some of those early 19th c. Devon baptisms remain so elusive.
Rol
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Hi Rol, I was looking at some information I received from Devon Family History Society for Baptisms 1813 - 1839. In it I found that William and Dorothy had a son Erwin born 07.04.1816 in Jubilee Street Plymouth Charles . Also William and Grace had a son Erwin born 25.12.1835 Raleigh Street Plymouth St Andrew. The name Erwin must have been a family name as Frederick and Elizabeth had a son Erwin, James and Elizabeth had a son James Erwin. When I see the name Erwin I immediately think that it is a possible family member.
Burg
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Hi Rol, I was looking at some information I received from Devon Family History Society for Baptisms 1813 - 1839. In it I found that William and Dorothy had a son Erwin born 07.04.1816 in Jubilee Street Plymouth Charles . Also William and Grace had a son Erwin born 25.12.1835 Raleigh Street Plymouth St Andrew. The name Erwin must have been a family name as Frederick and Elizabeth had a son Erwin, James and Elizabeth had a son James Erwin. When I see the name Erwin I immediately think that it is a possible family member.
This is very spooky, Burg. While I was looking at the Devon Family History Society - Baptisms - 1813 to 1839 this morning re DF's posts, I noticed the Erwin entry with William and Dorothy as parents for the very first time. I would guess I've looked at those transcriptions - very carefully I thought! - at least a handful of times and never seen it before. A chill ran down my spine I can tell you; Erwin's my ancestor John's immediately elder brother and the last of his family born in Jubilee Street.
I wonder where the Erwin comes in? I'd be tipping perhaps a Maddick maternal name as to my knowledge there's no evidence of it appearing in earlier Burgoyne generations. But take that with a grain of salt - as 'The Great Erwin Overlooking Incidents of 2009-10' indicate - clearly my comprehension skills are highly suspect!
The other information you provide from research done back in 1992 seems entirely plausible and it's marvellous that you've shared it with us.
One of the interesting aspects was the Cobourg Street address for Frederick's widow in 1861. When Dorothy (nee Maddick) and Elizabeth Burgoyne died in 1858 and 1873 respectively, their addresses were in Cobourg Street. Did the building Burgoynes colonise Cobourg Street from the 1850s just as exuberantly as they seemed to have done in Raleigh Street in the 1840s?
Rol, you're quite correct about the two Williams in my tree. I have the 1811 version in there because I'm not sure whether the 1807 version is the 30 year old William in the 1841 Census (and who seems to suddenly be 26 when his will is proved in 1851). As you've indicated, Devon baptisms earlier than 1813 aren't easy to come by for time-poor folk! The 1807 William was most certainly baptised in Kingsbridge, as Burg points out. He's probably our William but I'd like to be certain.
Anyhow, got a family to get to bed - must dash!
'Night all!
Grant
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Sorry guys, I'll drag this back to Cleo for a moment if I may. Amazingly I have been sent 2 letters written by Samuel Bennett aka James Enever from 1911/2 in which he confirms the tram car accident and his mother's resulting blindness. So not only was Samuel/James himself of very poor sight (and registered blind) but also his wife Josephine, who he met at the Cleveland Blind School, but late in life his mother also.
I've updated the family history page http://www.ennever.com/histories/history15093.php if of interest. Kind rgds
Barry
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Sorry guys, I'll drag this back to Cleo for a moment if I may. Amazingly I have been sent 2 letters written by Samuel Bennett aka James Enever from 1911/2 ...
Barry, you are an absolute magician in locating splendid new primary source material! While this thread is of course intended as an ongoing information exchange about all members of the Plymouth Burgoyne clan, there is no doubt that Cleo has prescriptive priority rights as leading lady -- and so there can be no possible need to apologise for introducing new info about her as soon as it is discovered.
Your compendium about her and Augustus was already a great resource, and the latest revisions make it even better. The extracts that you have added from the two letters written by James Samuel Enever (né Samuel James Bennett) in 1911-12 constitute first-hand contemporary evidence from one of the leading players in this thread's central plot. So I do not think the brief headlines which you have modestly posted give adequate weight to the importance of what you have discovered.
Accordingly I hope you will not mind my abstracting the material from the letters that you put up on you site, and reproducing a slightly re-ordered version of it here for the benefit of the readers of this thread. (I shall willingly amend or remove anything in what follows that you may tell me that you would prefer to be edited out.)
[In] a letter from James Enever, Cleopatra's son, to his cousin James Keen Enever dated 1911 in which James refers to Augustus as 'Father Gus' ... [he records that in about 1884 the] family had moved to Corstophine in Scotland and lived there for about a year. Augustus met with a group of men who had 'the craze to come to the States' and 'just insisted that Gus accompany them', which he did leaving Cleo and James in Scotland. The group of Scotsmen went to Florida while Gus stayed in New York ...
James ... wrote that after arriving in New York Augustus became interested in investing his money in a South Carolina publishing firm and was awarded the New York agency for its monthly magazine for so doing. All went well for about eighteen months until an earthquake hit South Carolina and destroyed the company's building and his money was lost.
After the collapse of the publishing business the family took in boarders and ... then Augustus was offered the position with The Equitable Life Assurance Co. [James adds that] later ... his father had 'lost his position with the Equitable' ... , but without elaborating on the reasons.
[The 1911 letter continues:] 'Mother became entirely blind about two years ago. She went to Market one Saturday night and while boarding a Street Car, or Tram as the Johnny Bulls call them, she was thrown to the pavement and must have struck her head. This caused blood vessels to burst behind the eye and subsequently she became blind.'
Cleopatra was badly affected by her blindness and her family feared for a while that she would take her own life but in time she settled to her fate and became more cheerful.
James, however, was very positive about himself [and his own blindness], telling his cousin: 'I have poor sight. It is so poor that I cannot see what I am writing to you now ... And doctors here say that in time I shall enjoy the blessings of perfect darkness. But ... this does not worry me much ... I don't see what in the world I should feel sad about.'
'In the year of 1905 ... I married one of the most charming girls of our school, who is entirely blind.' He describes her as 'a capable young woman and what an accomplished person she is. She can manage and does our home in a whole lot better way than 999 women can out of a thousand. I am just a little conceited over my selection of a wife.'
Rol
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Hi Grant, I am interested to know where Erwin, brother of Frederick is when the 1841 census was taken. The only Erwin I have found is Erwin son of Frederick, also who and when did he marry and his children. Did he stay in England or did he immigrate somewhere.
Burg
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Elizabeth Prowse b 1787 Christow . I have another puzzle instead of an answer for you. My Christow PR transcripts show 3 possible baptisms:
17 June 1787 Betty d(aur) James and Betty (ne Mortimore )Prowse (m 5 Jan 1779)
11 July 1790 Betty d(aur) James and Elizabeth Prowse
28 Nov 1791 Betty d(aur) Samuel and Mary (ne SMITH) Prowse (m 11 July 1784)
The first two seem to be the same parents but there is no Christow burial record for the first Betty bp 1787. James and Elizabeth appeared in Christow from elsewhere in 1779 and there was never any later crossover with my Prowse family as witnesses to marriages. I have used witnesses quite a lot to determine which Betty or Thomas etc was which.
The last Betty bp 1791 was my 4x gt gfs sister and she married John Matthews in Christow 18 April 1815. My family had been in Ashton, just over the Teign from Christow since at least 1720.
I had presumed that the 1787 Betty had died and been replaced by the 1790 Betty and that the latter had married Richard Caseley in Christow on 25 Feb 1816. But I now note that the Elizabeth Prowse who married RC was a soj(ourner).
Just to add to the conundrum there was a marriage between John Smith and Suzannah Mortimore 25 March 1785.
Re Jane Burgoyne m Josias Prowse. Jane bp c 1801 censuses vague possibly Kerwyn Cornwall. I do not think this was the Loddiswell marriage.
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I am interested to know where Erwin, brother of Frederick is when the 1841 census was taken. The only Erwin I have found is Erwin son of Frederick, also who and when did he marry and his children. Did he stay in England or did he immigrate somewhere.
Burg, what (if any) info do you have about the fate of Erwin Burgoyne, son of Frederick and Elizabeth (and elder brother of your Frederick William)?
I am wondering whether you are aware of him having joined the Royal Navy. You have probably long since spotted this, but Anc***ry.com have filmed the RN medal rolls for the Crimean campaign and those record an Erwin Burgoyne serving as an ordinary seaman in HMS St Jean d'Acre: TNA ref. ADM 171/28 fo.63r.
He also received a campaign medal for service in the Baltic with the same vessel, 1854-55: ADM 171/19 fo.102r. That roll includes the comment that the medal was delivered to him later -- 13/8/57, by which date he was apparently one of the ship's company of HMS Indus.
If this is not your man, I suppose it could just as easily be the son of William and Grace Burgoyne (b.1835 per your Reply 52 above). I would think that William and Dorothy's mystery Erwin b.1816 would have been a bit long in the tooth by the 1850s, but absent more evidence I suppose he too should not be totally excluded as a possibility. The difficulty of finding adult refs. to the latter, plus the infant mortality rate of the time, rather suggest that Plymouth burial registers before circa 1830 may be the place to catch him.
As I say, the medal info is likely to be old news to you. But always safest to check . . .
Rol
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Hi Rol, Yes medals were not known to me but I did know that Erwin, Brother of Frederick William, was in the Navy and then in the Merchant Navy. I did find him in the 1881 census living in Southampton with his wife Ann. He had a son Charles, but as far as I know Ann was not his mother. I think Erwin died in 1893 and Charles was born in 1864.
Burg
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ERWIN BURGOYNE (b. 1816)
... The difficulty of finding adult refs. to [William and Dorothy's mystery Erwin b.1816], plus the infant mortality rate of the time, rather suggest that Plymouth burial registers before circa 1830 may be the place to catch him.
As a non-habitué -- let alone subscriber -- of the FindMyPast site, I have just been having a browse through their indexes on the lookout for the name Erwin Burgoyne.
Previously unknown to me (though probably not to many other readers of this thread) was the fact that FindMyPast have a deal with the Devon FHS to host indexes to some of the society's PR transcripts. One hit in particular struck me as being worth the price of a few pay-as-you-go credits:
Plymouth Charles
Burgoyne, Erwin. Buried 4 June 1818, aged 2.
Data provider: Devon Family History Society
In case anyone else wishes to pull up the details, it may also be worth mentioning that FindMyPast's Parish Record Index has another hit showing for the burial of an Erwin Burgoyne at Plymouth -- in 1835, at the age of 31.
Rol
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Hi Rol, I was looking at the FindMyPast website for parish buriels and did not find that entry. That is one questioned answered but I now have another question. Frederick was born 1814 according to the information Mrs Guthrigg sent us, b ut George was born 1814 and so was Sara Hardy. Were they triplets, or were George and Sarah twins and Frederick born either before or after. I was looking for Frederick's birth or baptism but so far no success.
Burg
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Grant, ... I am glad you have posted up the details of John Burgoyne's 1873 death cert. Meant to do that near the start of this thread and never got round to it. I tried for press reports of the inquest, but failed to spot anything; probably should have persisted longer. My best guess was that the death was "sudden" and not immediately explicable -- i.e. he just dropped dead, and the medical people wanted to make quite sure it was his heart. Still, mere speculation, and it would be good to know more. I have an old lookup request on the RootsChat Kent board for some one to try and find an Erith-area MI for him; but no fish nibbled. Maybe worth trying some resuscitation over there (in a non-Transylvanian sense).
Done.
(Link for use if needed/desired: here (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=379265.msg3624962#msg3624962).)
Rol
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Hello all
Firstly, I apologise to Burg and DF for my lack of response to their recent posts. I am very grateful for what you've added to the discussion and Burgoyne/Prowse databank - I've just not had a moment to provide a thoughtful response beyond that! I will make amends shortly.
Secondly, I'm all too painfully aware of my tendency to keep wrenching the limelight away from our starlet, the flamboyantly-monikered Cleo. I'd apologise more profusely, but this is, after all, about her family. And I've got some new things about her brother and my ancestor, the travelled physician Dr John Thomas Burgoyne, to share.
What I have is a timeline of known events in his life. It includes some summary information about his father, wife and descendents. But it's largely a chronicle of things we know to be true over the 49 years (exactly) that he lived.
Why do it?
Primarily because it's not been done, and there's a lot of scraps of fact to organise from various on- and off-line sources - and here I want to thank the astounding contributions of Colleen Antaw, and John and Peter Reynolds for providing many of these factual insights. In pulling all this information together chronologically, it makes it starkly clear where our knowledge of not only the doctor but also his birth family and descendents is deficient.
But why log it here?
I guess now I've organised it all I think storing it here might serve another purpose - to help to provide some comparison and contrast with the beliefs, ethics, motivations etc. that we're privy to - and actively researching - in the affairs of his relatives.
So here it is, Part 1 of 3 in a pretty raw annotated timeline of the life of John Thomas Burgoyne, medical practitioner, journeyman, entrepreneur:
29 Jun 1849: Born in Newbridge, Kildare, Eire. Parents are John Burgoyne, a civil engineer, and Susan Smith (nee Giles). Both are apparently from long-standing Devonian families. Parents married at Ebenezer Wesleyan Chapel, Plymouth, Devon, England on 15 Jan 1840. An elder brother John Giles Burgoyne died in 1840. The life and times of elder sister Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne is the subject of much of the 'Burgoyne family of Plymouth' thread on RootsChat.
Early 1852: Sister Maria Theresa Burgoyne born in Newbridge, Kildare, Eire. In early 1876 she marries 'general business agent' Philip Jordan Bishop (born Jordan Ranson in 1851 in Lavenham, Suffolk, the youngest of 11 children to Jeremiah Ranson and Elizabeth Jacobs). They raise three daughters in the south-east of England.
29 Jul 1853: Travels aged 3 with father John (a "gentleman"), and sisters Cleo (aged 7) and Maria Theresa (aged one and a half) from Nassau, Bahamas, via Baltimore to England.
24 Jan 1871: Receives his Diploma from the Royal College of Surgeons, Dublin, Ireland.
1872: Thought to have been practising at Buckinghamshire County Hospital, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England.
28 May 1873: Registered Medical Practitioner in England.
28 May 1873: Residing at 2 Magdala Villas, Belvedere, Kent, England.
31 May 1873: Departs England for Australia on the steamer 'Great Queensland', acting as surgeon superintendent.
13 Jun 1873: Father John Burgoyne dies in Belvedere, Kent, aged 54. Following a post mortem, the cause of death is stated as 'heart disease'.
02 Sep 1873: 'Great Queensland' steamer lands at Moreton Bay, Queensland, Australia.
05 Mar 1874: Receives Certificate of Qualification from the Queensland Medical Board stating he is a legally qualified medical practitioner in the colony.
29 Jun 1874: Marries Editha Marie Reynolds, aged 21, in Mount Perry, Queensland. Editha's family are mine managers and educators latterly from the Lizard Peninsula in Cornwall. Her Reynolds line originates in Shropshire. Editha and her family emigrated to Australia on the 'Kent' in Sep 1867, starting their new life in Victoria.
01 Aug 1874: Appointed and gazetted Medical Officer for the police district of Teningering (Mount Perry), Queensland.
09 Jan 1875: Leaves Mount Perry for England, allegedly.
1875: First child Frederick William born in Sydney, New South Wales. Frederick William dies the same year.
Late 1875: Resident doctor at Moonah Brook, New South Wales.
I'll continue years 1876 through 1888 in the following post!
Grant
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Hi all
As promised, here's Part 2 of 3 in the annotated timeline of the life of John Thomas Burgoyne, medical practitioner, journeyman, entrepreneur:
25 Jan 1876: Rumoured to be about to accept Coonamble, New South Wales as next district of practice because their offer was, from 'a pecuniary point of view ... a vast improvement on his present district' [Moonah Brook].
01 May 1876: Announces to Maitland Mercury readers that he has commenced practice at his residence in Muswellbrook, New South Wales.
01 Jul 1876: Announces to Maitland Mercury readers that he is now dispensing his own medicines at no extra cost to patients from his practice in Muswellbrook, New South Wales.
01 Nov 1876: Advertises for another legally qualified practitioner to set up a branch practice in Muswellbrook - seeking "a good horseman of energetic and strictly temperate character".
1876: Second child Edith Evelyn W Burgoyne born in Muswellbrook, New South Wales. Edith dies in 1876 or 1877.
17 May 1877: Still practising in Muswellbrook, according to record of magisterial inquiry into the death (from acute peritonitis) of 48 year old Thomas Bowden.
1877: Third child Edith Nea Walburg Burgoyne born in New South Wales. Known as Nea, she never marries and dies in Ashfield, New South Wales in 1949.
1878: Fourth child Frederick William Burgoyne born in Muswellbrook, New South Wales. Frederick William commences medical studies, but drops out when his girlfriend falls pregnant in 1906. He becomes a grocer and dies in Burwood, New South Wales in 1935.
Late 1878: Apparently resident practitioner in Grenfell, New South Wales.
06 Mar 1879: Resident doctor at Back Creek (near Minmi), New South Wales.
21 Nov 1879: Appointed hospital surgeon in Ravenswood, Queensland, following the previous doctor's appointment having been cancelled due to not reporting for duty.
13 Dec 1879: Resigns post at Ravenswood Hospital citing climate and insufficient practice as the causes.
Early 1880: Resident practitioner at Copeland (in the North Hunter region, near Gloucester), New South Wales.
11 Mar 1880: On way to take up practice in Dungog, having left Copeland because it was not 'remunerative enough'. Copeland reported lost 'a thoroughly good, skilful man' because 'the inordinately heavy bribe of 100 pounds per annum' was not sufficient.
1880: Fifth child Mabel Maude L Burgoyne born in Dungog. She dies in Dungog in 1881.
05 Nov 1880 at 7:15pm: Gazetted Government Medical Officer and Vaccinator for the district of Dungog.
11 Apr 1881: Resigns appointment of medical officer to the Star of Williams 1802 Grand United Order of Oddfellows in Dungog.
12 May 1881: Arrives and commences practice at Vegetable Creek (near Emmaville), New South Wales.
19 Aug 1881: Gazetted Government Medical Officer for the district of Vegetable Creek.
01 Nov 1881: Gazetted Coroner at Vegetable Creek and for the colony generally.
1881: Sixth child Mabel Maude Lilian Burgoyne born in 1881, probably in Tenterfield in the Northern Rivers region of New South Wales. By arrangement, she marries John Arthur Reynolds in Shanghai, China. He is a British customs official and a distant relative of her mother's, hailing from Falmouth, Cornwall. John Reynolds died in China in 1918 and Mabel returned to live in Australia, passing away in 1969 at Hurlstone Park, Sydney suburbs, New South Wales.
1883: Seventh child Arthur Ernest Albert Victor Burgoyne born at Vegetable Creek. Married Bertha May Marwood in Victoria, Australia in 1905, and they had one daughter. Victor died from either cholera or typhoid fever in China before 1910.
04 Oct 1883: Continues practising at Vegetable Creek, according to press reports.
1885: Eighth child Edgar John A A S Burgoyne born in Redfern, Sydney inner suburbs, New South Wales, Australia. Edgar was a photographer and married Vietnamese/Frenchwoman Ann Defore in China. They had one child - Daphne - who died in Florida in 2005. Edgar died in Sydney in 1963.
31 Jul 1885: Appointed to act as locum tenens at Moruya in the absence of Dr King.
1886: Ninth child Aubrey Edward Leopold Burgoyne born in Moruya, New South Wales, Australia. Accompanies Mabel to China in mid 1906 for her wedding. Aubrey was a Hong Kong government servant, but also apparently engaged in trading. Both he and his wife became prisoners of war. He died on 12 Aug 1946 in Hong Kong, China, leaving wife Nance, children Eileen, Edmund and Beryl, and siblings Nea, Mabel, Edgar and Grace. It appears that Nance and her Australian Government Intelligence Officer son Edmund died in Dalkeith, Western Australia in 1985 and 1978 respectively.
09 Apr 1888: Dr and Mrs Burgoyne and family (and worldly possessions, one suspects) disembark the 'Kiama' in Sydney after travelling up the coast from Moruya.
After that lovely bucolic posting on the south coast, wherever next for the Good Doctor? Stay tuned for the thrilling final episode in our three part series ...
Grant
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Hello readers,
haven't lost you in some dusty ephemeral gold rush backwater a post or two ago in the peripatetic adventures of the antipodean branch of the Burgoynes? I hope not.
For those still with us, here comes the finale in the annotated timeline of the life of John Thomas Burgoyne, medical practitioner, journeyman, entrepreneur:
1888: Tenth child Muriel Grace Ivy Pearl Burgoyne (known as 'Grace') born in Balmain, New South Wales. Grace married Harry Lohrmann (anglicised to 'Lorman') in 1917. Later that year they had their only child, a daughter, Erica, who recently passed away. Grace died in Sydney in February 1970.
23 May 1889: Practising in Balmain, inner western Sydney, New South Wales.
1890: Eleventh child Ruby E Burgoyne born in Balmain, New South Wales. She dies in 1891 or 1892.
1891: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as a surgeon at 449 Darling Street, Balmain, New South Wales.
14 Aug 1891: Twelfth child - an unknown daughter - born at 509 Darling Road, Balmain, New South Wales. (This birth is reported in the press and in the Australian Medical Gazette, but not apparently officially registered.)
1892: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as a surgeon at 507 Darling Street, Balmain, New South Wales.
26 Aug 1892: Creditors invited to register with the Registrar in Bankruptcy. (I had a feeling in my waters that this was coming!) Now residing in Napier Street, Paddington, New South Wales.
1893: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as a surgeon at 12 Napier Street, Paddington, New South Wales.
22 Apr 1893: "World-renowned electrician, physician and surgeon", now quartered at 112 Phillip Street, Sydney. Florid snake-oil style advertisements for "the Electric Girdle" among other cure-alls begin appearing weekly from early December 1892 in the Maitland Mercury. They are initially under the name "The Kelly Institute" with Dr J T Burgoyne as the point of contact. By February 1893 "The Kelly Institute" references have been dropped and the goods and services on offer are now fully under his name and practice logo. On 22 April 1893 they cease, but only after Dr J T Burgoyne has attained a truly impressive CV and flawless success rate. Claims include that he is "legally Qualified and Registered by the Medical Board, received his medical education at the Royal College of Physicians, where he graduated with éclat. He then entered the Royal College of Surgeons, where he also graduated with highest honors. On receiving his various diplomas, he completed his medical training by an extended tour of the world, visiting all famous hospitals, devoting special attention to the study of diseases which afflict the young and inexperienced..."
22 July 1893: Reinvents himself as Dr Jeckell Vinés, but remains at 112 Phillip Street, Sydney. Dr Jeckell is "Legally Qualified and Registered by the Medical Board of New South Wales. PROFESSOR OF ELECTRO-MEDICINE AND THERAPEUTICS. Prizeman of His College In Obstetrics, Forensic Medicine, and Toxicology; Honors in Anatomy, Physiology, Histology, Practical Chemistry, Botany, and Medicine; author of " Lectures on the Microscope" and Treatises on Consumption, Extra Uterine Gestation, and various specific subjects. Formerly Medical Officer of Health, London Port sanitary authority, Public Vaccinator English Government, Railway Medical Officer, Surgeon to the Police, and Hospital Physician ... whose experience of 23 Years' continuous practice enables him to guarantee the cure of every accepted case ... ".
1894: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as surgeon, 164 Hereford Street, Glebe, New South Wales.
1894: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as Jeckell Vinés, surgeon, 112 Phillip Street, Sydney, New South Wales.
1895: Listed in Sands and Macdougall Directory for Sydney as Jeckell Vinés, surgeon, 112 Phillip Street, Sydney, New South Wales. Note that entries for John T Burgoyne cease in 1894.
29 Jun 1898: On his 49th birthday, died at Maryborough Hospital, Queensland. Press reports were that the cause of death was 'heart disease', although 'convulsions due to intemperance' appears on his death certificate. Interred at Maryborough Cemetery.
(As a footnote, his family - ie "Mrs Burgoyne, 2 Misses Burgoyne, Messrs F and V Burgoyne and Masters E and A Burgoyne" - depart Queensland on the 'Katoomba' for either Sydney or Melbourne on 05 Nov 1898.)
Sorry it's so long!
We know so much, and yet so little ...
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Grant, five hours from clocking on again but pleased that's done ...
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Well done, Grant! It is fantastic to have that full mini-biog of Dr JTB added to the communal pot of data. Obviously a fair bit of the raw material was already accessible via the Anc***ry.com message-board thread, but it is very useful to have your updated and expanded version available here -- especially now we have it in such a clear chronological sequence. Something to pair with the excellent piece that Barry has compiled for JTB's pharaonic sister.
One probably should not smile too broadly about the misadventures of others, even if they occurred a century and more ago ("there but for the grace of God ..."); but I did especially enjoy certain passages of what you posted . . .
26 Aug 1892: Creditors invited to register with the Registrar in Bankruptcy. (I had a feeling in my waters that this was coming!) Now residing in Napier Street, Paddington, New South Wales ...
22 Apr 1893: "World-renowned electrician, physician and surgeon", now quartered at 112 Phillip Street, Sydney. Florid snake-oil style advertisements for "the Electric Girdle" among other cure-alls begin appearing weekly from early December 1892 in the Maitland Mercury. They are initially under the name "The Kelly Institute" with Dr J T Burgoyne as the point of contact. By February 1893 "The Kelly Institute" references have been dropped and the goods and services on offer are now fully under his name and practice logo. On 22 April 1893 they cease, but only after Dr J T Burgoyne has attained a truly impressive CV and flawless success rate ...
22 July 1893: Reinvents himself as Dr Jeckell Vinés, but remains at 112 Phillip Street, Sydney. Dr Jeckell is "Legally Qualified and Registered by the Medical Board of New South Wales. PROFESSOR OF ELECTRO-MEDICINE AND THERAPEUTICS. ... whose experience of 23 Years' continuous practice enables him to guarantee the cure of every accepted case ... " ...
29 Jun 1898: On his 49th birthday, died at Maryborough Hospital, Queensland of 'heart disease' ('convulsions due to intemperance' on death certificate) ...
I wonder whether he was in blood steeped so far that he failed to hear the auditory associations of the name "Jeckell" with the word "Hyde". But then perhaps through it all (and "dry" in no other sense whatever) he held on to a certain sense of humour. ;)
Rol
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Wow - thats some info from Grant - can't compete with that!
Just a smidgeon of new info on John Burgoyne, Cleos dad. I was scanning PRONI's site today and noticed the following entries
Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1863-4 pages307 and 734
'Burgoyne,John, civil engineer Belfast Barracks 43 Mountview' AND
'Burgoyne,John, Spafield' (Holywood)
Same directory 1858-9
Burgoyne J Riversdale (Holywood) pages 440-1
Same directory 1865 page 773
Burgoyne John, Spafield
We can place John in the Holywood area before Cleo married William Power. Was he stationed in Belfast/ living in Holywood, working for the army before being moved to Dundalk? Dates would fit and enable a courtship period before Cleos marriage in 1867
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That is great new info, Moatville. Especially this bit:
Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1863-4 pages307 and 734
'Burgoyne,John, civil engineer Belfast Barracks 43 Mountview' AND
'Burgoyne,John, Spafield' (Holywood)
That is the very first evidence that I can recall seeing that shows him working for the army in Belfast -- i.e. extending his "range" beyond the Curragh and Dundalk.
Plus it is another valuable link that allows us to tie JB the Holywood-dweller with JB the civil engineer (and/or clerk of works) working for the RE.
Back in October I made Barry aware of a press advert that serves the same function, thanks to its very last word. You may well have spotted it for yourself; but I rather think that it has not been specified in the public thread -- an omission that I ought to remedy. So here it is:
Belfast News-Letter, 13 Aug. 1869TO BE LET, DETACHED VILLA, STANDING on Three and a half Acres of Ground, MARMION LODGE, Holywood, containing every accommodation for a gentleman's residence. An Acre of Ground can be had for a garden if required.
For particulars, apply, by letter, to
JOHN BURGOYNE, Esq., Dundalk.
The third such link of which I am aware is the one you mentioned here, at the foot of your second post:
... Finally - I noticed an old newspaper add for a house sale in Co Louth and the contact names were - you gueseed it - Burgoyne and Power, Holywood
In my browsings among the old newspapers I have not yet managed to find that particular item. For the reasons already mentioned, it is potentially quite an important "linking" piece of evidence -- so I would very much appreciate it if you could post the exact details into the thread (whether by full text, or ref. to newspaper and date, or search settings that work to bring it up).
Many thanks again for those directory entries.
I am trying to pull together fuller info about JB's time in Ulster, and I hope to post some more about that before too long.
Rol
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Had a look tonight at my saved documents and to my disgust I have saved them in html format for a subscription site so cannot access them without paying up - again. I will do this next week but like Grant have limited time due to the demands of youngsters.
I did however do a scan of references in the Belfast Newsletter for J Burgoyne - throughout 1859/60 there are many references to his involvement in the formation of Holywood (4 miles east of Belfast) Gas Company
In 1864 there seem to be references to be reelected as a director for same
Also in 1864-5 references to his involvement in the creation of Public Baths in Holywood.
Cant find much after this (one possible hit in 1867).
Will pay up next week and do a trawl for him again, and save them as pdf files this time for posterity - and this thread!!! Is it possible to post pdf files here?
John
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Oh dear -- you have my sympathy, John! Maddening when the tech kit plays such tricks on one; I know that sort of frustration all too well.
With ref. to "access ... without paying up", I shall PM you some info that might just help a bit.
I think that I have probably seen most of the hits you mention in your post; I was just having trouble bringing up the specific advert about property in Co. Louth for which Power and Burgoyne of Holywood were mentioned as joint contacts. Do you recall any other points about it, I wonder -- e.g. rough date? I do hope that between us we can lay our hands on it again.
Ref. posting attached images into threads, it is possible, subject to a 500 KB limit each time (see Help button at top). But having gone to the expense of making their own images of the old papers, Gale and the BL have a valid current copyright in what they created; so one needs to make one's own transcriptions.
Rol
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Right, the time is nigh for a big dump of info about John Burgoyne's "Irish Period".
As I mentioned a while back,
Reading sections of the two threads again, I am struck by the many gaps that remain about the Burgoyne family's time in Ireland. It still galls me that that John's Irish will seems to have been lost in the Four Courts fire, with no surviving solicitor's draft or extracted copy having yet turned up -- nor even a Kentish MI that might tell us more about his final employment as a clerk [of works??] at Woolwich Arsenal. Given that Maria Theresa was made executrix and lived in London, there really ought to be a copy of the missing will in some English solicitor's file of client papers. One day . . .
I do not claim to be filling in all those gaps (nothing new on JB's presumed spell working at the Curragh); but I now want to "deliver" on this
I am trying to pull together fuller info about JB's time in Ulster, and I hope to post some more about that before too long.
and on the similarly worded -- and now rather staler -- "threat" I made soon after Moatville's first posts in this thread:
Hi again Moatville ...
The new Irish information (principally via Gale's 19th Century British Newspapers?) is very interesting; I have been having a further look at the Gale database myself, and I think that the links between John Burgoyne (JB) the clerk of works at Dundalk barracks and JB the Holywood-dweller do now look a fair bit stronger than I had originally thought. I hope to post further about that soon.
Hold tight please . . .
Rol
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REFERENCES TO JOHN BURGOYNE (JB) IN ULSTER
A Provisional List
Part 1
1857 Jul. 31 Holywood Public Meeting This is the first evidence that I have so far seen of JB's presence in Ulster. Moreover, it is the first and last time that I have seen a contemporary reference to him with a military rank attached to his name. The report describes a meeting held to consider applying to the government for authority to adopt additional development and rating powers under the revised Towns Improvement Act. Its second sentence begins: "The attendance was large, and among those present we observed: -- Rev. Mr. Poole, Captain Burgoyne, Messrs. Henry Murney, Jonathan Cordukes, J. B. Kennedy, James M'Lean, Smith, Power, Greenfield, Chermside ... &c., &c." -- Belfast News-Letter, 1 Aug. 1857
1858 Oct. 19 Holywood Public Meeting Fundraising gathering in aid of the Ulster Society for the ... Deaf, Dumb and Blind. This time attended by plain "J. Burgoyne", who appeared much further down the list due to the abandonment of his 1857 social precedence based on military rank. -- Belfast News-Letter, 20 Oct.1858
1858 Directory Entry "Burgoyne, J., Riversdale, Holywood" appears in the Alphabetical List of Country Residents: first record of him living at that address. (On pp. 440-1 per PRONI index, although p.443 per image.) Source: Reply 67, posted by Moatville, and the related directory -- Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1858-59
1859 Aug. 2 Press Announcement Short prospectus and invitation to apply for shares in the newly-formed Holywood Gas Company Limited. Fourth in list of ten provisional directors appears "John Burgoyne, Esq., Riversdale, Holywood". Further down, JB is also named as "Treasurer (pro tem.)". -- Belfast News-Letter, 2 Aug. 1859
1860 Jan. 9 Holywood Public Lecture A lecture about Palestine by a visiting clergyman, hosted by the (Anglican) Bishop of Down, Connor and Dromore. Those attending include "J. Burgoyne, Esq., and family". -- Belfast News-Letter, 9 Jan. 1860
1860 Dec 1 Gas Company Inaugural Dinner A lengthy report about the switching-on of the gas lighting at Holywood and the celebratory dinner which followed. Laudatory remarks made in speeches about JB's work at Holywood, both as a director of the gas company and as Chairman of the Holywood Town [Improvement] Commissioners -- the latter office being described as Holywood's nearest approach to having its own mayor. Modest speech in reply by JB, with words apparently quoted in full. (As this is the only example of JB's own words currently known to me, I think that the relevant parts of this article are worth repeating verbatim -- which I have duly done in Reply 74 below.) -- Belfast News-Letter, 3 Dec. 1860
1861 Directory Entries "Burgoyne, J." again recorded as living at Riversdale, Holywood (although the house name has been mistranscribed without its middle letter s), in the Alphabetical List of Country Residents. In Holywood's own section of the directory his name seems to have been erroneously omitted from the Residents list; but it does appear within an entry headed "Police Commissioners" -- "John Burgoyne, chairman; John Finlay, vice chairman; J. Chermside, clerk". -- Belfast and Ulster Directory 1861 (as recorded on the LennonWylie website)
1861 Mar. 27 Property Advertisement in Press As follows:
TO BE LET, CHESTER HOUSE, HOLYWOOD. It is beautifully situated, is substantially built, and finished in a very superior style, and is now being Painted and Papered throughout. Altogether, it is a most desirable Residence.
Apply at 3, WARING STREET; or to Mr. BURGOYNE, Holywood.
-- Belfast News-Letter, 27 Mar. 1861
1863-64 Holywood Rating Valuation JB recorded as tenant and occupier of Riversdale; and as immediate landlord to the occupiers of Chester, Marmion and Stanley (although at the date of the survey no tenant was in occupation at Chester). I have posted fuller details and an http link in Reply 75 below. -- Griffith's Valuation of Ireland 1863-64
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Part 2
1863-64 Directory Entry "Burgoyne, John" now recorded as living at Spafield, Holywood (p.734), a large house that lay on the left of the main road just where it entered Holywood from the direction of Belfast. Griffith's Valuation showed the building as being in multiple occupation, suggesting that it was a terraced property. (See detailed contemporary map linked to G's V.) JB is no longer listed as one of the Town Commissioners, having been replaced as chairman by Capt. Harrison.
Very interestingly, this directory has an additional JB entry, on p.307, recording him as follows: "Burgoyne, John, civil-engineer, Belfast Barracks -- 43 Mountview". As previously observed, this is our first clear evidence of JB's connection with a barracks in Belfast. Source: Moatville's Reply 67 above and the related directory -- Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1863-4
1864 [August] Evidence at Belfast Riot Inquiry JB witnessed an incident during the Belfast rioting of August 1864, and on 19 Nov. that year gave an account of what he had seen to a public inquiry. I have transcribed his evidence and posted it in full as Reply 76 below. For our purposes two principal points emerge. JB's words seem to corroborate the foregoing directory entry by implying that he was commuting into Belfast to a place of work at the barracks there, judging by the opening sentence of what he said: "He saw from the window of the barrack the crowd of ship carpenters armed coming up to the head of North Frederick-street ... ". And he ended by stating that "he was a native of England and a Protestant". (Item found by Moatville and reference kindly passed on to me via PM) -- Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 21 Nov. 1864
1865 Directory Entry "Burgoyne, John" again listed with the Holywood address "Spafield". John Power is now shown as one of the Town Commissioners; and the introductory description of the town includes these words: "The principal hotel is an extensive building with large stabling and carriage accommodation, and was erected some years ago by the present proprietor, Mr. John Power." Source: Moatville's Reply 67 above and the related directory -- Belfast and Ulster Directory 1865, pp.772-3
1867 Jan. 15 Newspaper Wedding Announcement This notice records one of the key events of Cleopatra Burgoyne's life, a ceremony central to past discussions in this and its predecessor Northumberland thread on RootsChat. Additionally, it provides us with critical contemporaneous evidence about the employment status of her father JB at that date -- probably in words chosen by the man himself. Yet its exact text has not previously been posted into either thread. So here it is:
Power and Burgoyne -- January 15, at St. Nicholas' Church, Dundalk, by the Rev. R. Hamilton, Vicar, assisted by the Rev. J. G. Rainsford, Curate, William, youngest son of John Power, Esq., Holywood, to Cleopatra Cecilia, eldest daughter of John Burgoyne, Esq., Civil Staff Royal Engineers, Dundalk. No cards.
-- Belfast News-Letter, 16 Jan. 1867
1867 May 9 Press Notice of Gas Co. AGM JB evidently still a director of the Holywood Gas Co. -- named as one of those retiring by rotation and offering themselves for re-election at the forthcoming AGM. -- Belfast News-Letter, 11 May 1867
1869 Aug. 13 Property Advertisement in Press This item has already appeared above, in my Reply 68; but I shall repeat it here to locate it in its proper place in the sequence.TO BE LET, DETACHED VILLA, STANDING on Three and a half Acres of Ground, MARMION LODGE, Holywood, containing every accommodation for a gentleman's residence. An Acre of Ground can be had for a garden if required.
For particulars, apply, by letter, to
JOHN BURGOYNE, Esq., Dundalk.
-- Belfast News-Letter, 13 Aug. 1869
1870 Directory Entry Under Dundalk, Co. Louth (in the sub-part of the Trades section headed Civil Engineers), appears the entry "Burgoyne, John, Barrack st". Source: Shanew147's Reply 30 in the Northumberland thread, citing Slater's Commercial Directory [?of Ireland], 1870.
(And note that in his Reply 33 Shane also drew attention to plans &c in TNA's catalogue described as "Dundalk Barracks Married Soldiers Quarters - John Burgoyne, Clerk of Works RE, 20-30 November 1867".)
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GAS COMPANY CELEBRATORY DINNER, 1860
On 1 December 1860 the gas works and the network of street lamps at Holywood were all ready, and there was a ceremonial "switch-on", followed by a celebratory dinner. Fortunately for us the Belfast News-Letter decided to cover this event very fully, recording the words of many of the speeches of those present. I think the parts relating to John Burgoyne are well worth posting into this thread.
Belfast News-Letter, 3 Dec. 1860:
At six o'clock, the directors of the Holywood Gas Company, and several other gentlemen who had been invited to commemorate with them the successful completion of the company's works, sat down to a very excellent dinner in the Assembly Rooms ...
The chair was occupied by JONATHAN CORDUKES, Esq., and the vice-chair by JOHN BURGOYNE, Esq., Chairman of the Holywood Town Commissioners -- two of the directors of the gas company. ...
The cloth having been removed ... [Toasts: The Queen (National Anthem); Royal Family; Lord Lieutenant and Prosperity to Ireland; ... ]
Mr. J. A. HENDERSON -- Gentlemen, ... I rise to ask you to drink "Success to the Holywood Gas Company, and the health of the Chairman and Directors." (Great applause.) ... When I see the gentleman on my left who so worthily occupies the chair tonight, and whose name is a guarantee in itself for all that is upright and honorable -- (hear, hear) -- and when I see in the vice-chair Mr. Burgoyne -- the Mayor of Holywood I may call him -- (applause) -- when I know that these gentlemen work heart and hand together, and in unison with other gentlemen of the place, to improve this town -- once a village -- it is almost certain its improvement must proceed. ... The toast was drunk amid great applause. ...
Mr. J. G. M'GEE had to propose a toast, which he did with the greatest of pleasure. He begged to give them "The Holywood Town Commissioners," connecting therewith the name of their worthy Vice-Chairman, the Chairman of the Commissioners, or, as he might be called, the Mayor of Holywood. He then briefly glanced at the great advancement and marked improvement which Holywood had been making under the Commissioners, with Mr. Burgoyne at their head; but there was one thing which he believed that Holywood yet required very much -- namely a supply of water ... and he hoped they would take the necessary steps ... He had very great pleasure in introducing to them the toast of "Mr. Burgoyne and the Town Commissioners of Holywood." (Applause.)
The toast was warmly received and drunk.
The VICE-CHAIRMAN [i.e. John Burgoyne] -- Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, you must excuse me in responding to the toast which has been so warmly received. I am not given to speaking; but for the toast which Mr. M'Gee has proposed in such complimentary terms, and which has been so well received, permit me to return you all my sincere thanks. As Chairman of the Commissioners, I know that since I have been there it has been my earnest desire to do everything in my power for the general welfare of the town. (Hear.) But I need say no more on that point. So far as the gas company is concerned, I have done what I could for the benefit of all. (Hear, hear.) But I must say that my part in it was not so heavy as that of others. I must admit that, if my friend Mr. Hugh Rea did not devote the energy, and time, and attention which he bestowed in corresponding and otherwise acting in connexion with the project, the work would not have gone on as it has done. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Rea has had a great deal of trouble in the matter, and deserves great credit, and the thanks of all parties. (Applause.) I return you my sincere thanks on my own part and that of the Town Commissioners. (Applause.)
The CHAIRMAN then proposed the health of their worthy architect, Mr. G. Smith, and contractor, Mr Leadlaw. ...
The CHAIRMAN then proposed, in highly complimentary terms, "The health of the worthy Honorary Secretary of the Holywood Gas Company, Mr. Hugh Rea." (Applause.) He did not know how they would have got on without the indefatigable exertions of Mr. H. Rea. ... [&c., &c.]
It is probably relevant to add that towards the end of the article, which is much longer than the extract I have reproduced, the anonymous reporter slips in the fact that the abovenamed Mr J A Henderson was the proprietor of the Belfast News-Letter -- a circumstance perhaps not wholly unrelated to the fullness of the report.
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GRIFFITH'S RATING VALUATION, 1863-4
Griffith's Valuation is a well known and very useful source for Irish local history, and it casts some helpful light on John Burgoyne's real estate interests at Holywood. However, because of the notorious degree of sub-letting that prevailed in Ireland, it is hard to know the true value of JB's net economic interest in the houses where he is listed as the immediate landlord. Had he really bought the freeholds? Or, more likely, was he himself but the tenant of one of the larger landowners, perhaps having been granted vacant plots of land on building-lease terms? If the latter, how long were his leases, and did he have to pay a significant running rent, or just a token ground rent? Questions that may be impossible to answer**, but which we should certainly bear in mind if trying to guess what his assets may really have been worth.
There are a number of online sources that claim to offer information derived from Griffith's Valuation. I have found the Ask About Ireland website to be much the best, both because it offers direct access to the original printed valuation schedules and because it connects users onwards to contemporary large-scale maps. In particular, the fully zoomable 6" OS map of ?1860s Holywood is a fascinating resource. Here is a link to their search page (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml).
The following is my abstract of the key data recorded about the Burgoyne property empire, such as it was:
Parish of Holywood
Page: 23
Map ref.: 7
Plot name: Riversdale
Immediate landlord: Rev. Henry Henderson
Occupier: JB
Value p.a.: £43
Page: 26
Map ref.: 5
Plot name: Chester
Immediate landlord: JB
Occupier: (Unoccupied)
Value p.a.: £72
Page: 26
Map ref.: 6
Plot name: Marmion
Immediate landlord: JB
Occupier: Forster Green
Value p.a.: £93
Page: 26
Map ref.: 7
Plot name: Stanley
Immediate landlord: JB
Occupier: Hugh Rea
Value p.a.: £58
(Note that the bracketing in the lefthand margins of the original schedules is apparently accurate; this means that any house names shown in parentheses appear -- rather eccentrically -- above the related plot details.)
The contemporary 6" OS map linked to the search results on the Askaboutireland website (zoomable by double-clicking and also dragable) shows that most of the houses with which JB's name is associated lay well inland of the town centre, a bit to the east of the church. Near to each other in a roughly N-S line -- and numbered on that map in red with entirely different numbers from those specified in the pages of the valuation itself -- are marked Riversdale (41) and Marmion Lodge (56). In contrast, Spafield lay much nearer the Lough, a large building (in multiple-occupancy at the time of Griffith's Valuation) which back then was the first on the left approaching Holywood from the SW, along the coast road from Belfast (next to map plot 29) -- with a flag staff marked in the garden. I have not yet spotted Chester and Stanley, although they were doubtless not far away.
I might observe in passing that Hugh Rea of Stanley was one of JB's fellow provisional directors of the gas company at the time of its foundation in 1859, as were two residents of Spafield.
** Although I do have a little idea about how we might just get lucky and track down some of the related property deeds (mentioned a while back off-thread to Grant and Barry -- fuller info in a future forum post).
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RIOT INQUIRY, 1864
There was an unusually bad outbreak of inter-communal rioting in Belfast between 8 and 20 August 1864, during which the casualties amounted to 12 dead and 312 wounded (source: Hansard, 13 June 1865). A major issue examined at the subsequent public inquiry was the allegation that the magistrates in charge of detachments of the police -- and of soldiers called out "in aid of the civil power" -- had shown partiality towards mobs of protestant workmen and had made little serious effort to confront or disperse them.
John Burgoyne joined those giving evidence at the commissioners' hearing in Belfast on 18 November 1864. Leading Roman Catholics in Belfast had briefed a well-known Sergeant-at-Law (older equivalent of a QC) called Armstrong to represent their interests, and this is how his exchange with JB was reported in one of the Dublin newspapers:
John Burgoyne was examined by Sergeant Armstrong--He saw from the window of the barrack the crowd of [Protestant] ship carpenters armed coming up to the head of North Frederick-street; there were parties of military in the street, Sir Edward Coey [ham magnate, justice of the peace and recently-knighted former mayor of Belfast] was there; he was spoken to by a constabulary man, the mob numbered about 250 men; they were about as fine a set of ruffians as Belfast could produce (a laugh); the troops made a movement, but not to prevent the passage of the mob; the mob could have been easily surrounded and captured; believed at the time that the military acted with cowardice; does not know who gave the orders that made the troops cowardly; the mob passed off, and Sir Edward Coey and the military went in another direction; Mr. Lyons came up afterwards with the cavalry and galloped off after the mob.
The witness, in reply to Mr. Commissioner Dowse, said he was a native of England and a Protestant.
-- Freeman's Journal, 21 Nov. 1864
The extent of the rioting that year may be judged by the fact that (as the Hansard report continues) the Irish authorities at Dublin Castle eventually concluded that the situation in Belfast had grown so serious that it required the despatch of "a force of about 1,000 infantry, a large body of cavalry, and some artillery"!
Hope the foregoing batch of data will keep everyone entertained for a bit. :)
Rol
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Just spotted the second element that creates one of those nice little historical coincidences -- quite without objective significance, but appealing none the less.
1, as we knew:
● Cleo's second husband was married to her by the father of Lily Langtry *
2, as we perhaps didn't:
● Cleo's second son bought his Hampshire house from the son of Mary 'Patsy' Cornwallis-West **
_______________________________
* ranked as Edward VII's mistress no. 4 (succeeded by Sarah Bernhardt no.5)
** ranked as Edward VII's mistress no. 1 (whose daughter Mary 'Daisy' Cornwallis-West allegedly went on to become mistress no. 6 -- and wife of the Prince of Pless)
(Sequence of maîtresses en titre in accordance with the analysis of Greg Hallett: see extract from chapter 1 of the rather unpromisingly entitled book Stalin's British Training, hosted on his website [here: http://www.greghallett.com/ ] -- probably not a source to bet the ranch on, especially as the rules of accountancy in such matters can be difficult to regulate ;) )
A more complete and authoritative list of these royal liaisons (and -- indented -- alleged resulting children) is the one produced by Anthony Camp: see his website (http://anthonyjcamp.com/page9.htm). Prepare to be impressed, very impressed . . . According to Camp's research, Patsy Cornwallis-West's daughter Daisy of Pless was one of the mistresses of the future King George V -- not one of his father Edward VII's as maintained by Greg Hallett.
For a potted history of Newlands Manor, Milford, near Lymington, Hampshire, see Milford village website 1 (http://www.milfordonsea.org/#/the-village-history-2/4533912988) and Milford village website 2 (http://www.milfordonsea.org/#/famous-residents-3/4534812346). (N.B. that the Power family bought it in June 1920 -- not long after Mrs Cornwallis-West had moved out to a smaller house nearby called Arnewood, and just a month before her death; apparently her wayward son George, listed by Camp supra as plausibly one of the future king's offspring, had been made bankrupt in 1913 and really did need the money.✝ The Powers are said to have sold up themselves in 1948, two years before John Cecil's own death.)
There is a webpage about Mrs Cornwallis-West (including, near foot, a photo of Newlands Manor and a newspaper obituary) here (http://theesotericcuriosa.blogspot.com/2009/12/edward-firecracker-patsy-cornwallis.html). She was née Mary FitzPatrick, the daughter of the rector of Mohill, Co. Leitrim.
An older, thumbnail photo of Newlands plus a para of history can be found on the website of a language school currently based in part of the house (now divided) here (http://www.heritage-english.com/english-language-homestay-accommodation.html).
Rol
✝ However pressing his debts, George's sister Daisy seems to have made no secret of the fact that she thought he was behaving badly towards their ailing mother by selling off the old family home during her lifetime. Limited Preview extracts are currently accessible via Google Books from a biography self-published in Canada by W. John Koch in 2002, entitled Daisy Princess of Pless: A Discovery -- a reworked version of a German-language original that was commercially published at Frankfurt in 1990. The author, a German immigrant whose family had lived near the Pless family castle in Silesia before WW2, drew heavily on Daisy's published diaries and memoirs. On p.274 he quotes from pp.298-9 in one of these memoirs (What I Left Unsaid), which had reproduced a sympathetic private letter sent to Daisy by Queen Alexandra just after WW1. The following brief extract from that letter demonstrates their mutual gloom about the impending sale of Newlands Manor:
Sandringham, Norfolk
September 18, 1919
My poor dear Daisy,
I see by the papers that you have actually been allowed to come back to your beloved home and poor suffering Mother dear! ... I do hope you found your poor Mother better and ... in your old home! which I hear your brother wants to sell -- too bad and horrid! ...
Yours affectionately,
Alexandra
So George was not a popular fellow. But needs must . . . And John Cecil Power was the one who was blown some good by the "ill wind".
Re-edited and expanded, 27 Jan. 2011
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...and Augustus's great niece married Lionel Leslie, nephew of Lady Randolph Churchill in 1942!
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;D ;D
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Quick bump and somewhat of a coda to this thread.
Back a few pages ago - posts 37 and 40 I think - we touched on the mysterious disappearance of Cleo's mum Susan Smith Burgoyne (nee Giles) from the domestic picture.
I can resolve this one now for the record. By chance I came across an image of a headstone in the Western Cemetery in Nassau, Bahamas, on findagrave.com. The inscription reads:
"SACRED to the memory of SUSAN SMITH, the beloved and affectionate Wife of John Burgoyne, Esq. C, W, R, E, Dept who departed this life July 11th 1853, (of Yellow Fever.) Aged 34 Years. Leaving an affectionate Husband and 3 young Children to mourn over their sad loss."
So Cleo was about 8 when her mum died in such a dreadful way.
Grant
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If anybody is still checking this thread - you may find the following interesting:
If anybody is still checking this thread, I found the notice in the Ballarat Courier 23/07/1874:
"BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS.
MARRIAGE. BURGOYNE - REYNOLDS. — On the 29th June, at Mount Perry, Queensland, by the Rev. W. B. Mather at the residence of the bride's father, John F. Burgoyne, M.D., only son of the late John Burgoyne, Esq, Royal Engineer Department, Woolwich, to Edith Mary, eldest daughter of W. H. Reynolds, Esq, general manager of the Mount Perry Copper Company's works, and formerly manager of the Great (Refelack???) Mines, Cornwall. West Briton please copy."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article192284784
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Hi Burgoyne descendants
I don't know if this thread is still active. I am the great granddaughter of John Thomas Burgoyne (the doctor is Australia)and from my brief reading of these messages, the (brother?)of Cleopatra Burgoyne. I provided some of the info for Grant's summary a few years ago.
I have recently started to look into the family again and wonder if anyone knows if there is a link with Sir John Fox Burgoyne (illegitimate son of the famous John Burgoyne who is buried in Westminster Abbey). His mother was an opera singer named Susan Caulfield I think. They had 4 can together after John Burgoyne's 1st wife died. Although illegitimate Sir John Fox was educated at Eton etc etc so someone paid for all that!! His father I guess. I have a marriage notice from the Belfast Newspaper concerning the marriage of John Thomas Burgoyne and Cleo's sister. In it there is mention of Sir John Fox Burgoyne that claims he is her great uncle.
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Is that you C A? Super to hear from you!!!! Hope you've been well!
Lovely to get a notification out of the blue about more action on this long-dormant thread!
It's funny: I haven't done much at all in the family history space for several years, let alone looking into the Burgoyne family. Coincidentally yesterday I had a moment to turn my attention to Hardy family - Dorothy Maddick Burgoyne's family - with some success.
Speaking of Dorothy Maddick Hardy - her husband William Burgoyne (born Kingsbridge, Devon in 1783) was one of two known sons of another William Burgoyne (born Blackawton, Devon 1747).
For Field Marshal Sir John Fox Burgoyne to be a great uncle of Maria Theresa Burgoyne, I think he would need to be a sibling of Maria's grandfather.
William Burgoyne (born 1783), who married Dorothy Maddick Hardy, was Maria's grandfather.
William Burgoyne's other brother was Andrew Randall Burgoyne (born Kingsbridge 1798).
Field Marshal Sir John Fox Burgoyne was born in 1782.
(I'm totally discounting the possibility that Sir John Fox Burgoyne's mum Susan Caulfield was a Burgoyne or that her affair was with one of our Devon Burgoynes rather than General Burgoyne, because it seems very remote! And also I have no Caulfields or Burnestones showing up in my DNA martches!!!!!)
So I can't see Maria's story being true, myself. But I have been known to get a bit bamboozled with how these relationships work, and exactly what constitutes a "great uncle" (could it be a great-great uncle, or once removed or something?). I'll happily let others school me if so :)
I do think there may have been a Burgoyne family tendency to claim high-born kin. My Burgoynes certainly have form in that area. Ancestral folklore goes that our Irish-based Spencers are allegedly blue bloods who are related somehow to Winston Churchill (could be true but it's got to be an incredibly tangential relationship if so, and although it was a commonly voiced claim, there is the elephantine absence of evidence in the room). I don't know why they couldn't be satisfied with having an ancestor who brought gaslight to Holywood and built the Married Soldiers' Quarters at Dundalk. Let alone a Professor of Electro-Medicine and Therapeutics. ;D)
While you are here .... could we please speak somewhere offline about the possibility of me securing a copy of key pages from the Burgoyne family bible? I would love to have another copy somewhere for posterity :)
I am sorry i couldn't help snare that Fox!
Please stay in touch, and all the very best! :)
Grant
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Hi Grant (Limeburner Mitchell)
Happy to get a copy of the key pages from the family bible to you. My knowledge of tech is basic. Is there a way to use this site to email me privately? If not we can work out something else.
The online name is pretty drastic but all the others I tried were taken and it does represent John Thomas in a way.
Colleen (Intemperance)
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I have just joined rootschat. I am a descendant of Frederick William Burgoyne who arrived in Australia in 1858. His parents were Frederick BURGOYNE and Mary COURTIS/CURTIS. Frederick William Burgoyne was born 14 July 1843 in Plymouth, Devon, England. I listened to many recollections from my grandmother who was his granddaughter. The following was an obituary printed in a local newspaper;
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/266610150?searchTerm=Frederick%20burgoyne#
The Elmore Standard, Saturday 23rd June 1917
ANOTHER PIONEER PASSES.
MR. F. W. BURGOYNE.
The news of the passing of another
old district resident in the person of
Mr Frederick William Burgoyne, of
Michie st., Elmore, will be received
with regret by a large circle of friends
The deceased gentleman was a man
of many parts, and despite the fact
that he was for some years the victim
of failing health took a keen interest
in district public matters. Besides
being engaged in various official
capacities during his residence at
Runnymede when local Parliamen-
tary contests were on the tapis, the
late Mr Burgoyne was a trustee of
the Mt. Pleasant Creek Church, then
belonging to the Bible Christian
connection, and he also took
a keen interest in the destinies
of the Elmore A. and P. Association,
and held the position of Vice-president
for several terms.
The late Mr Burgoyne was born
at Plymouth, County Devon, England,
in 1843, and had consequently
reached the fine old age of 74 years.
He arrived in Melbourne in the year
1858, and followed various callings
form shipping clerk to miner. After
a spell of the gold fever deceased
answered to the lure of the land, se-
lecting at Runnymede in 1871. Then
the call of the gold quest became too
strong for him to resist, hence he
again pursued the phantom Fortune
at the Mt. Brown diggings, in New
South Wales, after which he was
engaged on Government contracts
in the back blocks of the sister State,
and in Queensland where he did fine
pioneering work in the days when
the world was wide ! Owing to ill-
health deceased returned to Victoria,
and to Runnymede where he again
made his home, and added to his
versatility by establishing the wellknown
" Magna Charta" vineyard
and orchard. Here he and his
family resided for some years. The
disposal of his interests at Runny-
mede was decided on owing to a
breakdown in health, whereupon a
year's residence at Echuca resulted,
after which deceased resided at El-
more till his demise which took place
at his residence on Tuesday, 20th
inst., at 4.20 p.m.
The late Mr Burgoyne was a well-
read and respected citizen. He was
engaged for a number of years as
valuer and rate collector in the
Waranga Shire where he stood
sponsor for a number of the first
valuations. As a Free Mason, he
took a keen interest in the craft as
member of St. John's Lodge, Rochester.
Like other patriotic families of the
district, the Burgoyne family is well
represented at the front, three sons
of the deceased gentleman being in
khaki, two of whom are now serving
in the Heavy Field Artillery at the
front.
Much sympathy is expressed for
the relatives in their sad loss. A
widow and seven sons and one
daughter, as follows, lament the loss
of a kind husband and parent, viz.:
—Messrs Charles Burgoyne (Wil-
liamstown), Fred (Avenel), Harry
(Omeo), Lionel (Elmore, a new re-
cruit for active service at the front),
Thomas (Police Station, Raywood),
Walter and Roy (at the front), and
Miss Burgoyne (Raywood).
‘Tis thus the ranks of our district
pioneers are being depleted by the
grim, relentless Reaper, till few of
the district stouthearted men and
women who sought fortune and a
home amidst the wilds and discom-
forts of the virgin bush and oldtime
wide, wild ways remain. But the
old indomitable pride of race and
relentlessness of purpose still survive
in their kith and kin, as witness the
bravehearts of their fibre who have
answered to the Empire's call and
are now in the sacrifices incidental
to the awful fighting now in progress
on the battlefields of Europe. Who
dares say that they have lived in
vain—-the sires and mothers of Aus-
ralia’s gallants who have minted
Australia's fame, and are "doing
their bit" to put the world on a sure,
sound basis of peace again ?
The funeral to the Runnymede
Cemetery on Thursday afternoon
was largely attended. The service
at the grave was read by the Rev.
H. W. R. Topp, assisted by Mr. F.
L- Wyman. The pall-bearers were
Messrs. C., L., and T. Burgoyne,
and Mr. S. Andrews. Messrs.
Humphris Bros, carried out the
funeral arrangements.
My name is Diane and I hope to visit Plymouth (and other ancestral homes) in the next few years.
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I came across a stray baptismal entry in Irish records that pertain to this thread.
Glendermott Church of Ireland Co Derry
Born 11 Feb 1847 baptised 19 March 1847 Thomas Charles Burgoyne son of John Burgoyne, engineer residing Rossdowney & Susan Giles.
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The late June trend continues in the Doctors life (or after-life as the case may be) . . . .
The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) Thu 29 Jun 1933 Page 8 Family Notices
"BURGOYNE.-June 27, 1933, at 153 Old Canterbury-road, Dulwich Hill, Editha Marie, relict of the
late J. T. Burgoyne, M.D., aged 80 years."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16963618
________________________________________________________________
29 Jun 1849: Doctor John Thomas Burgoyne, Born in Newbridge, Kildare, Eire,
29 Jun 1874: Marries Editha Marie Reynolds, aged 21, in Mount Perry, Queensland
29 Jun 1898: On his 49th birthday, died at Maryborough Hospital, Queensland
27 Jun 1933: Editha Marie Burgoyne dies, aged 80
________________________________________________________________
My daughter has just had his 4G Grandson.