RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: SAMYJAY on Tuesday 12 May 09 19:44 BST (UK)
-
Trying to out where the 102 Regiment was from about 1875 and 1889.
A family member was with the 102 Regiment in Naas Ireland in 1889 at the age of 33 years when he married. But where was he before he married. Hope somebody can help.
-
Hi Samyjay
The 102nd Regiment of Foot, aka the Royal Madras Fusiliers, were at Portland at the end of 1874. They embarked for Gibraltar 15 April 1876. They were still there at the end of 1878.
They became the 1st Battalion the Royal Dublin Fusiliers in July 1881; after which a man was liable to be posted to either battalion.
At the end of:
= 1882 – 1st Bn: Ceylon; 2nd Bn: Aldershot
= 1883 – 1st Bn: Ceylon; 2nd Bn: Dover
= 1886 – 1st Bn: Mullingar; 2nd Bn: Poona, Bombay
= 1889 – 1st Bn: Curragh; 2nd Bn: Nusserabad, Bombay
Throughout the period you are interested in they had a Depot at Naas. So when he was married in 1889 he may have been on the permanent staff at the Deport. Did he have a special skill, or a senior rank? Or he may have been transferred back to the Depot prior to being discharged.
Are you after his army service, or his place of birth etc? Was he single when he married in 1889?
Ken
-
Hi Ken. Thanks that information. Just got his marriage cert for 1889 and it said he was at Military barricks naas soldier 102 regiment. His name was John McCarthy born Youghal Cork abt 1856. Know nothing about him from when he was born till he married in1889. After 1889 he had a child Mary born 1891-92 in Co Down. Then 1894-95 a son Maurice was born in Yorkshire England and then in 1897-98 he had a son patrick back in Naas. I don't know anything about his military servies other than he was a soldier in Naas. In the 1911 census he is in Dublin working as a labour.
Is there any was I can find out about his Military servies.
-
Surviving service records are filed according to date of discharge. From his age he is likely to be in the section for men discharged 1883 to 1900. These are original documents in Kew (series WO97). If you cannot get to Kew Findmypast will be putting them online.
If his papers have not survived you will certainly find him in the Muster Books (WO16). If he was serving before the mid 1870s you will need WO12.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
It is before his time, but there is a history of the 102nd Regiment from 1841 to 1867 on Google Books. It is called Services of the 102nd Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers)
Ken
-
Ken thanks for all that.
Will look at what you said and see where I go from here.
Thanks again.
SAMYJAY.
-
hello km1971
an ancestor of mine was in the 102 regiment and stationed at Portland in 1874, the year he got married.
I really don't know anything about him except his name, date of birth and his regiment. Why did the 102 regt go to Gibraltar? It seems that he may have died out there. I found a record of an army death in Gibraltar under this name and wonder where it would have been registered?
Am I right in assuming that he would have been Irish?
thanks :)
Hi Samyjay
The 102nd Regiment of Foot, aka the Royal Madras Fusiliers, were at Portland at the end of 1874. They embarked for Gibraltar 15 April 1876. They were still there at the end of 1878.
They became the 1st Battalion the Royal Dublin Fusiliers in July 1881; after which a man was liable to be posted to either battalion.
At the end of:
= 1882 – 1st Bn: Ceylon; 2nd Bn: Aldershot
= 1883 – 1st Bn: Ceylon; 2nd Bn: Dover
= 1886 – 1st Bn: Mullingar; 2nd Bn: Poona, Bombay
= 1889 – 1st Bn: Curragh; 2nd Bn: Nusserabad, Bombay
Throughout the period you are interested in they had a Depot at Naas. So when he was married in 1889 he may have been on the permanent staff at the Deport. Did he have a special skill, or a senior rank? Or he may have been transferred back to the Depot prior to being discharged.
Are you after his army service, or his place of birth etc? Was he single when he married in 1889?
Ken
-
The battalions of British regiments rotated around the UK and the Empire in no particular set pattern. As Gibraltar was (and still is) an important base there were always 2 or 3 battalions of infantry there, plus batteries of the Royal Garrison Artillery.
As there were no permanent depots in the UK until the 1870s battalions would move around the UK picking up recruits as they went. In times of shortage they would send recruiting parties out far and wide. So again there was no set pattern to the make up of the regiments, so you cannot assume he was Irish just because the 102nd Foot became part of an 'Irish' regiment.
Have you found his death in the regimental/overseas BMDs on something like Findmypast? If so you can order his death certificate using the references on the GRO online ordering site. Although the index gives his regiment you do need to order the death certificate to confirm this, as the only one I ordered was wrong. The 102nd Regiment were in Gibraltar from April 1876 to January 1879. Does that fit?
Ken
-
Thanks for that, Ken. His name was John James Pratt and he was stationed at Portland in 1874 when he got married. I couldn't find anything about him - and his wife remarried in 1881. I noted from your previous post that the regiment went to Gibraltar and I found a J. Pratt on the Army chaplains deaths list in Gibraltar for 1876. It's about all I have to go on.
I really appreciate your help. I'm a real novice at this!
This was the only record I found on findmypast. Can I now order a death certificate with that page number?
I guess I presumed that he was Irish as a) the name b) he married in a Roman Catholic Church c) I could find no record of him anywhere else.
-
My wife's Great Grandfath Samuel Moles was in the 102nd/66th Brigade (Army No. 5136). He signed up on 03 Aug 1866 and left the Army on 03 Aug 1876. I know from the UK Census that in 1871 he was at the School of Musketry in Hythe, Kent.1871 and that his son was born at NAAS in 1874. The TNA Pay & Muster lists show him to be in Portland in 1875/1876 and I hope to find him in the Pay & Muster lists in 1873/74.
My problem is that I cannot find a date of birth for him nor a marriage date which means I cannot apply for the relevant certificates.
I would be extremely grateful if anyone can offer any guidance on how to find him between 1866 and 1873 and also if there are any signing up records that I could research?
BrianG
-
Hi Brian
As you have his enlistment and discharge dates I assume you have his papers from WO97 in Kew. If so they should give his age in years and months. The army did not record date of birth. Occasionally they record ages in years and days. Are you aware that he was born before civil registration started in Ireland? So you will need to search the church records in Lurgan, if that information is correct. Do you know his religion, either from his papers or a later Irish census?
Did you search the muster book cover to cover? They started to include the married roll in the musters around this time. This should give the date he was put on the married roll. The army year ran from April 1st, so his last entry should be in the one for 1876/77. I am also surprised he only served for 10 years rather the normal 12.
The 102nd foot consisted of only a Depot in Naas and one battalion. That was in Dover to August 1871; Aldershot to August 1872, Upavon _ there is an Upavon in Wiltshire, near Salisbury Plain – until Sep 1872; Parkhurst (IOW) to July 1874, then Portland. So they must have been visiting the depot (or her family) when the child was born. If his wife was also Irish I would start to look for a marriage in Naas, as he would have done his initial training in the Depot.
Ken
-
Thanks Ken. I know he served only ten years because the muster roll shows his discharge and also states his enlistment date and that he was born and enlisted in Lurgan.
He joined Leeds police in 1877 and I have his records, again no date of birth is shown but it does say born in Knocknamuckley.
I have not got anything from WO97 only WO12 so I will look in there aswell. I did'nt realise he was born before civil registration so that is a great help.
I don't know his religion.
His wife was from Suffolk and another child was born in Portland in 1876. Looked through the marriage rolls but could not find any mention so will have another look. It could also be that the children were to different women as I have no BC for the boy born in NAAS in 1874 to show the Mother.
Thanks again.
Brian
-
Good afternoon can you please help
My great grand father was in the 102nd foot regiment Royal Madras, I did have his service records but i donated to the local museum.
My question he served about 24 years,he got married in 1877 at Gibraltar,and I believe he was in India,he was discharged in early 1881,was there any medals issued
thanking you inadvance
-
Since the original post these service record should have been put onto Findmypast. You can no longer research the originals at the National Archives. Posting his name, place and date of birth will help to find him.
It looks as if he just missed the Indian Mutiny, and they do not appear to have been involved in any campaigns until the Boer War (1899).
After the Mutiny they came under the crown and in 1881 merged with the 103rd Foot to become the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.
Ken
-
Thanks that information. Just got his marriage cert for 1889 and it said he was at Military barricks naas soldier 102 regiment. His name was John McCarthy born Youghal Cork abt 1856. Know nothing about him from when he was born till he married in1889. After 1889 he had a child Mary born 1891-92 in Co Down. Then 1894-95 a son Maurice was born in Yorkshire England and then in 1897-98 he had a son patrick back in Naas.
Findmypast have a one year attestation from 1900 - at the time of the Boer War - into the Royal Reserve Regiment. It is for a John McCarthy, aged 44, born Youghal. The RRR was created for home defence to allow Regular soldiers to be sent to South Africa. His wife (in 1901) was Sarah, and the address looks like Sallins Road, Naas.
John had 21 years previous service with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.
Ken