RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: derekseanbrown on Friday 15 May 09 19:27 BST (UK)

Title: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Friday 15 May 09 19:27 BST (UK)
hi.........does anyone believe they have Scottish ancestors that fought on Charles II side at the Battle of Worcester 1651?

cheers
Sean brown
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Billy Anderson on Saturday 16 May 09 12:33 BST (UK)
Hi Sean,
I do not have any ancestors from the battle but your post caught my eye.
I just goggled the Battle and it says 8,000 Scottish Prisoners were deported to
New England,Bermuda and the West Indies.
regards,Billy.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Saturday 16 May 09 13:02 BST (UK)
hi Billy

yes it was an overwhelming defeat for Charles II and his Scottish army. My post was to try and see if any Scots have researched their ancestors and found that some of them were at the battle....most were deported but some of the Scots taken prisoner must have remained in or around the town or the outskirts and maybe went on to have families there now.....just a thought....I live in Worcester and would be prepared to do some research if anyone thinks their ancestors were involved.
cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Windsor87 on Saturday 16 May 09 15:01 BST (UK)
If you believe the lineage contained within The Christian Watt Papers, then one of my ancestors was there.

My greatx11 grandfather, Alexander Fraser (1604-93) (11th Lord Saltoun, 10th Laird of Philorth), fought at the battle. He was said to have been wounded and escaped thanks to the aid of his manservant who took him back to the safety of the North.

He would be the only ancestor I know of, assuming that the lineage is correct (and I have very little reason to doubt it).

Windsor87
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: pmackie on Monday 26 October 09 12:22 GMT (UK)
I'm a Mackie whose family has lived in and around Worcestershire since at least the 1770s, and possibly before, so have often wondered if we may be a leftover from the battle. Especially as so many Mackays/ Mackeys fought.    At least two Mackey/Mackies were deported to the new world but I wonder if any stayed on. I'm descended from Robert Mackie/ Mackey born Worcester c.1788, who is probably the son of Robert Mackey/ Mackie who lived in Worcester from the 1760s. He in turn is probably the son of John and Rachel Mackey who were living in Worcester c.1740. There is a Samuel Mackay s/o John and Betty christened in 1735 in Droitwich too. I've exhausted most parish registers, as did my grandfather before me. Part of the problem might be that if they were descended from the Covenanters they would have probably belonged to the Dissenting churches and the records for them aren't so good.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: piobmohr on Sunday 29 November 09 14:45 GMT (UK)
Sean,

Greetings from the old colonies. I have just discovered that I am a direct descendant of Robert Abernethy who was taken prisoner a Worcester. It seems that he was given a choice of the Tower or being transported to the colonies. He chose the colonies (Jamestown, VA.) Robert was my 8th great grandfather.

Russell Smith
Covington, GA
USA
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Sunday 17 January 10 14:09 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your input........keep in touch, The Battle of Worcester 1651 is a subject I love to reseach into

Cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: pambyard on Tuesday 10 May 11 02:27 BST (UK)
Hi Sean,

My 8th great-grandfather, Robert MackClaflin or Mackclothlan (various spellings) was believed to have come to Massachusetts in 1652 as a result of being a Scottish prisoner of Cromwell. At first, I found this unbelievable, because his birth year is given as 1639, making him 12 years old during the battle, but I understand that some soldiers were this young. Here is a quote about his time after deportation, when he is believed to have worked off his indenture at the Lynn Iron Works and then married and purchased land in Wenham, Mass:

Some of these prisoners were indentured to the Lynn Iron Works, then the most important industrial enterprise in the country. Wenham is but a few miles from Lynn. The records show that on the same day that Robert Mackclothlan was admitted a townsman, Nov. 16, 1661, Edmund Bridges, who is known to have been connected with the Lynn Iron Works, was granted land at Wenham. The soldierly qualities of Robert are evidenced by his services under Sir Edmund Andros against the French and Indians. All known facts support the theory that Robert was one of Cromwell's Scotch prisoners. Full text of "Genealogy of the Claflin family : being a record of Robert Mackclothlan, of Wenham, Mass. and of his descendants, 1661-1898"  BY CHARLES HENRY WIGHT

After a rough start to his young life, Robert had at least 6 children, and now there are untold descendents throughout North America. I consider him one of my more interesting ancestors.

Pamela Byard
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Tuesday 10 May 11 11:27 BST (UK)
Hi pambyard

Thank you for your input into the topic. It has added a little more history to a battle that was fought so long ago.

Cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Roberta W. on Wednesday 18 May 11 05:47 BST (UK)
I believe I have an ancestor who fought at Worcester but I am not at home so am relying on memory. The information is based on early records of a POW ship named the John and Francis said to have transported captured Scots to Boston about 1651 and the names were pheonetically spelled. My ancestor's surname is now McKenney but it was spelled a number of ways including Macheny, McKehnie. Elder was John and his son Robert both were transported and family lore associates them with Clan McKenzie and the Skye/Inverness area. In a strange bit of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" by 1700 my Mckenney ancestor had married into the family of Rev Robert Jordan (Uncle was a bishop in a church in England, perhaps episcopal and sent to minister to the colonies about the same time), and a descendant of another Scottish family- Gray- said to have been captured at the Battle of Dunbar and transported to Boston a year or two earlier on the ship Unity, as POWs. both families are believed to have served at Saugus Mills & Mines in the greater Boston area and after serving their indenture sentences moved north to the Gorges Patent(Maine) out of reach of the Boston Bay and Plymouth Colony government reach. Any information on these families and their clan associations would be appreciated as we have very limited knowledge. The McKenney ancestors were illiterate until well into the 19th century and tended to avoid larger settlements or moved once an area progressed to the size of "civilization". thanks-
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: alan_withey on Wednesday 18 May 11 19:14 BST (UK)
Would you have any information on a James MacKreith?

Only some information to go on:
 - fought in battle of Dunbar (age ~20, not captured)
 - fought in battle of Worcester (age ~21, caputred)
 - sent to New England on the ship John & Sara (departed London, 8 November 1651; arrived Boston, 1652)
 - served indentured servitude in New England until 1660, began paying taxes in the new world in 1661
 - Other possible surnames: Maceraithy
 - Possible family residence at the time: Hebrides?

...fabulous topic

Alan
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Roberta W. on Thursday 19 May 11 07:08 BST (UK)
Alan:
I stand corrected, the ship was the John and Sarah. It arrived in Boston and the "passengers" were turned over to Thomas Kemble of Charlestown and recorded in Suffolk County (Massachusetts) Deeds on May 13, 1652 . The book on Scottish prisoners gives a different sailing port than does the Suffolk Deeds which lists "passengers aboard.. at London...bound for New England ...". Do you know which of the Hebrides islands James was from? My McKenneys were said to be from the Isle of Skye of the Inner Hebrides islands of Scotland so I presume there was an Outer Hebrides as well. Sometime this summer I anticipate a trip to the Massachusetts archives in Cambridge where the colonial records are. It is said that the average term of indenture for Mr Kemble was 7 years and in some cases it appears he was more motivated by economics as opposed to any particular sense of patriotism or religion because he not only used the Scots in the mills and mines but also trained some in consumer skills and literacy and continued to employ them after their indenture and paid them as many purchased land within a year or two of 1670 including my ancestors. I can look for deeds in Suffolk county for James.
Roberta
Roberta
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Thursday 19 May 11 21:50 BST (UK)
Hi Alan

I was fascinated to read about your ancestor fighting at Dunbar then one year later to the day fighting at Worcester. Imagine how James felt after surviving Dunbar then the next year making the thirty day march to Worcester only to meet up with Cromwell again and to be defeated yet again. He was a long way from home. How do you know about his military service and his ancestry? I would love to read any articles you have about James.
Have you been to the battle sites at Worcester?

Cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: alan_withey on Friday 17 June 11 20:59 BST (UK)
Hi Roberta,
I would be absolutely thrilled with anything that you come back with from Massachusetts.  Even information on the Scottish prisoner group in general would be interesting.

I am unsure as to whether James was from the inner or outer Hebrides as his birthplace is only an ancestral note, but there is an Outer Hebrides.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: alan_withey on Friday 17 June 11 22:20 BST (UK)
Hi Sean,
James MacKreith's granddaughter described to her son who passed the conversation onto his son that two of their cousins had fallen at the battle of Culloden fighting for the Pretender Prince Charles.  She also said that her grandfather was from Scotland and fought against Cromwell at the battles of Dunbar where he escaped and at Worcester where he was captured.  The conversation was written down in a letter and an excerpt of the letter has been circulated throughout the family.

The letter also spells James' last name as 'Maceraithy' and my own surname is a derivative of this.

How do you figure into the Worcester story?

Alan
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Friday 17 June 11 23:49 BST (UK)
Hi Alan

I was born about a mile or so from where Cromwell crossed the rivers Severn and Teme on his 'bridges of boats'. This was a crucial tactic in the battle. The fields around the area were my playgrounds. As youngsters we spent many hours looking for bones and swords. It's a subject which now I research into and any details, like the ones coming from Rootschat, help to fill in the history at a more personal level and bring in stories of everyday people who got wound up in an era of civil unrest. I am also a member of the 'The Battle of Worcester Society'      http://www.thebattleofworcestersociety.org.uk/Welcome.html      I can send you pictures of the area if you wish.

Cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: alan_withey on Saturday 18 June 11 01:03 BST (UK)
Terrific.  I would like to see the pictures.  Thank you.  I think it's astounding how events like this battle reshape the world.  Very interesting indeed!

Alan
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Roberta W. on Saturday 25 June 11 05:28 BST (UK)
Im struck by the coincidence in my family tree that the adage regarding the enemy of my enemy is my ally seems to hold true. Like many of Cromwell's POWs, as soon as possible they got out from under the control of Boston and moved north on to the Fernando Gorges Patent which is now southern Maine. One of the largest landowners at the time was the Rev. Robert Jordan, the nephew of the Bishop of Worcestor and an Anglican/Church of England official. My McKenney line married into the Jordan line at least twice and my Gray line; once. "Rev/ Bob" was so opposed to the church practices of the Cromwellian era that Boston had him arrested twice for refusing to enforce the edicts and he vigorously forbade the witchhunts and trials, claiming they were a political ploy of the government. When William (and Mary) forced the District of Maine to be under the control of Boston once again, we started almost immediately to rumble for a revolution moving further and further into the northern woods to get away from the government. There are still isolated communities in Maine that seem more 1700s than 21st Century. Heck I deal with dial-up and I consider myself lucky to just be on line. But I love my venison which is still available every fall. LOL.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: bruce1746 on Monday 12 September 11 15:44 BST (UK)
If you believe the lineage contained within The Christian Watt Papers, then one of my ancestors was there.

My greatx11 grandfather, Alexander Fraser (1604-93) (11th Lord Saltoun, 10th Laird of Philorth), fought at the battle. He was said to have been wounded and escaped thanks to the aid of his manservant who took him back to the safety of the North.

He would be the only ancestor I know of, assuming that the lineage is correct (and I have very little reason to doubt it).

Windsor87

Hi, I am new to Rootschat & came across this post. I have recently traced an ancetsor on my fathers side, James Cardno (Born in1620) who was servant to 11th Lord Saltoun. It is said that out of 800 men these two are the only ones that returned home to the NE of Scotland. I came across this on a website:-

The 10th laird, later 10th (now 11th) Lord Saltoun, was severely wounded at the Battle of Worcester in 1651, but survived, thanks to his servant, James Cardno, who rescued him from the battlefield, hid him and nursed him, and got him home to Fraserburgh.

James Cardno's portrait is said to hang in Cairnbulg Castle, present seat of the Chief of Clan Fraser.

Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Monday 12 September 11 16:51 BST (UK)
Hi Bruce 1746

That is really good research regarding your ancestor. Do you know where the original script is, or have a copy of the original script that refers to James Cardno's deed? Was it a different scource than the Christian Watts Papers? Do you have a copy of James' portrait?

cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: bruce1746 on Tuesday 13 September 11 09:12 BST (UK)
Hi Sean,
   I've only traced my ancestor (James Cardno) back this week, mainly using Ancestry.com & trawling websites about the Cardno family. I haven't read the 'Christian Watt Papers' yet but will do as she mentions 'Nobles of Broadsea' to which I also have ancestors.
The info. I found about James Cardno can be found on the following     http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/history.html#saltoun  . Pretty interesting stuff, now I just need to find out about my other ancestors who fought at Trafalgar & Culloden   :)

Below is the protrait of the said James Cardno, servant to 11th Lord Saltoun.

Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Lyrasong on Tuesday 22 November 11 21:20 GMT (UK)
Hello,

My ancestor, Neal MacCone, is believed to have fought at the Battle of Worcester. He was born about 1625, probably in Scotland, and died before 1680 in Isle of Wight County, Virginia Colony. He may have come into port at Boston. Neal is thought to have married Anne Hawkins, probably after his arrival in Virginia. His son, William MacCone, was my ninth great-grandfather.

I am just beginning to research our MacCone line. It was wonderful to find this thread!

Regards,

Holly
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Tuesday 22 November 11 22:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Holly

good to here from you...keep in touch; would like to hear more when you have done more research.

Sean

please visit our site             http://www.thebattleofworcestersociety.org.uk/Welcome.html
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: rfassett on Saturday 10 December 11 02:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this thread.  I am brand new to RootsChat and don't ask me why.  I have been studying my ancestry for some time and just now come across this site.  I look forward to learning and sharing.

In the meantime, I have traced my name sake back to Massachusetts and have found that family tradition has my 8th and 9th great grandfathers on the John and Sara that unloaded in 1652.  They are listed as John and Patricke MACKFARSON or McFARSON or McPHEARSON and for some reason changed the family name to FASSET or FASSETT when they arrived in Boston.

I have a lot of studying and researching to do.  I will check out the The Battle of Worcester Society website.  The thought just occurred to me, I don't know if Patricke was married before he was shipped over here, but I know that John (Patricke's father) would have been, at least at one time.  So what would have happened to the families these guys left behind?

Again, thanks for this thread.

Ron
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Roberta W. on Sunday 11 December 11 18:58 GMT (UK)
For those interested, I recently came into possession of a copy of a book written in 1844 by jacob Abbott on the life of Charles II. There is a good chapter on this battle and the events leading up to and after, right down to the oxen that was killed at the gate that prevented the king from retreating back into the city and including a sketch of what the city looked like with a vantage point from the other side of the bridge on the Severn river. Be careful though and have lots of tissue handly because you are going to empathize with your ancestors caught in the battle. I also found it on google books. The Massachusetts archives has documents on what happened to some of the people who were transported on the John and Sarah to the Saugus mills and mines as well as other locations. They have an index on line and its in the "Eastern Lands" section. Their information is that the Virginia Scotch prisoners were mostly from the later 1745 rebellion.
Bertie
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Grizzleebear on Sunday 15 January 12 07:41 GMT (UK)
G'day from David, in South Australia
My Family is from Worcester and Warwick. My Grand-dad was born in Alcester.
My brother has a Bible which was handed down from generation to generation in our family. One of the Family Stories was that it was given to our family after the Battle Of Worcester, by Oliver Cromwell. I do not believe that my family was actually involved in the battle, but that they were Land Owners and Cromwell visited their Family House. There was a reference that Cromwell read this Bible before the Battle. I have been unable to obtain proof of any of this information that has been handed down from father to son, but the dates in the Bible and the Bible itself is from the 1600s.

I'll have to check through the Family Holdings back then and see whether I can hone in on the information that way. Thankfully a relative in England did an extremely good history of our family, going back to the Crusades (which Crusade I don't know)

Thanks for your post. I am enjoying reading all of the replies
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: earlross66 on Sunday 19 August 12 17:54 BST (UK)
sean,
my 6th great grandfather was george ross born in 1629 & he fought in the battle of worchester 1651, was captured & then sent to america. I have a document that says his name did not seem to be on the list of the ship John & Sarah. I believe his father was David the 11th from Balnougoun. any help would be appreciated.   Earl Ross
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Sunday 09 September 12 22:18 BST (UK)
Here's a few good sites to go to to read about the 'John and Sara'

http://www.us-roots.org/colonialamerica/main/john&sara.html
http://files.usgwarchives.net/ma/essex/towns/lynn/scotsprisoners.txt
http://www.todrobbins.com/robbins/sources/list-of-scots.html

cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: earlross66 on Tuesday 11 September 12 19:21 BST (UK)
thanks for the info.  george ross does not show up there???????
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: CDCrumb on Tuesday 11 December 12 05:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Sean,
I'm still in the process of working this out, but I may also have had an ancestor in that battle. He was shipped over on the John and Sara. His name is John Croome. He's on several of the lists that you posted about the passenger list. In my genealogy book on Crumb History it lists various spellings as: Crump, Crumpt,Cramp, Crompe, Crombe, Crome, Crombie, Cromb, Cromp, Crump and Crumb. My genealogy book says it could be English, Irish, Scottish. The farthest back is a Richard le Crumpe of Shopshire, Salop County in 1273. If you ever run across any info on my line please let me know.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Monday 29 April 13 17:02 BST (UK)
Certainly will reply if we get some info....
cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: E_Ferguson on Friday 26 June 15 16:47 BST (UK)
I am an 11th generation descendant of one Robert Abernethie who fought there and was a bondsman  in colonial Virginia for 5 years. I am presently trying to verify a hear-say document regarding his parentage. According to that document, he was in the Tower of London but scheduled to depart for the colonies in November. We know he arrived in the spring, aged 19, then spent 5 years as an agricultural laborer. He apparently was unable to sign his own name in 1657.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Saturday 27 June 15 00:32 BST (UK)
Good luck and please keep us informed ......
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: E_Ferguson on Saturday 27 June 15 15:53 BST (UK)
Thanks. I (and others) have been researching this ancestor for decades. We know the date of his marriage, and that he died in Jan 1685, just prior to a Feb probate case. We know that he had at least one son and one daughter, purchased land and served on court cases in his lifetime. My current database on this surname (in it's many misspellings) has over 30,000 names on this subject. Alas, to date we have not been able to correctly document his alleged father, so in a sense, we're slightly stuck. I am now too old and too ill to personally go to England and dig in the PRO at Kew for the information we have from that 1975 document left for us by a (wannabee) genealogist relative, who utterly failed to properly cite her sources. So we must somehow do it all over again, or simply call it a dead-end brick wall.

Meanwhile, some of us can appreciate that our ancestor helped shape the legal system of the United States via his immediate acts after fulfilling his bond servitude a free man. He married and left a document legitimating his natural daughter born while he was a bondservant and unable to marry. He purchased land and became well thought of in the community. The document providing a dower for his daughter set a precedent that women in these future United States could own property in their own name and administer it without oversight of a husband or male relative, long before women in the UK gained that right.
 
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: E_Ferguson on Wednesday 08 July 15 00:16 BST (UK)
I have a new question for you experts: how long did it take a sailing ship in the mid-1600's to travel direct from England to Jamestown Virginia? I have heard 6 weeks, but one bit of info I have is that my ancestor was due to leave in from England in November and an earlier researcher has stated that he was sold on the dock on 7 April 1652. Something doesn't add up to me. An indentured servant's sale date  in early April would correspond with a sailing date in mid-Feburary, would it not?
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: clskehan on Thursday 27 August 15 00:10 BST (UK)
I have a Daniel Robinson, that was captured by Cromwell's Army in 1651, at the Battle of Worcester. He was aboard the ship John and Sarah, and transported to Boston via Gravesend. He then was transported to Connecticut, as a servant to Nathaniel Foote, until  around 1663. I believe he came from Clan Donnachaidh in Blair Atholl, Perthshire, Scotland but do not have proof. All help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: CaileanMac on Thursday 27 August 15 09:44 BST (UK)
Call my sceptical but I am really amazed that so many people can confidently claim to have traced their Scottish ancestors back to the 1650s.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: E_Ferguson on Thursday 27 August 15 16:56 BST (UK)
Hello Sceptical. When you had a great-aunt who kept telling you when a child that you descended from Scottish royalty and you'd better start acting like it, eventually you start looking into it seriously. I haven't yet gotten around to the Plantagenets however a rich cousin did. Right now I've got the issue of documenting that the said ancestor was a son of the then Laird of Barrie, who was in turn a grandson of the 6th Baron Saltoun. Before the bankrupt Laird's estate in Strath Ilsa got sold to one of the MacDuffs and a hot-headed youngster was involved in rebelling against the British crown.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: CaileanMac on Friday 28 August 15 14:17 BST (UK)
Pretty much everyone is descendent from royalty of some kind, it's not unusual.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 28 August 15 14:26 BST (UK)
No me ah hope!   ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: E_Ferguson on Saturday 29 August 15 01:47 BST (UK)
Maybe so, CaileanMac, but right now we need to document 'our' Robert's parents.  Only then can we trace this Abernethie cadet line back to Scots Royality. Until then, it's only hearsay as far as we are concerned. The English researcher we paid several hundred dollars to some years ago was a total scam in our opinion: lots of copies of stuff we already had discovered here but not one iota from the British sources we really need!
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Sunday 20 September 15 22:45 BST (UK)
Just to remind everyone ... here's a link to our Battle of Worcester Society which you might find useful.

http://www.thebattleofworcestersociety.org.uk/

cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Jack Hamilton on Friday 14 April 17 10:59 BST (UK)
I don't know if this thread is still active.  David Hamilton, my 8th grandfather, was captured at Worcester and sent on the John & Sarah to Boston, settling eventually in Rollingsford New Hampshire. (https://i2.wp.com/scottishprisonersofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/20160416_112843_resized-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 14 April 17 11:10 BST (UK)
Very interesting Jack, I used to work in Westburn which is on the south bank of the Clyde. The duke of Hamilton raised a troop of horse from his estates &  invaded England for Charles II, where he was killed. Your ancestor was probably one of them.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Jack Hamilton on Friday 14 April 17 11:29 BST (UK)
Skoosh, it's been very difficult learning of David's history prior to his arrival in America.  There's a highly detailed genealogy "The Hamiltons of Waterboro" that is 100% accurate from 1651 forward.  DNA testing has located a number of descendants in the states, but the Scottish ancestry in the book is not supported by the testing and online research has not turned up any reliable info.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 14 April 17 17:58 BST (UK)
 Jack, there's a golf course where Westburn House stood, all that remains is an old stone doocot (dovecot). The lairds of Westburn were Hamilton's & a troop of horse would probably have been raised amongst the gentry.
The problem with DNA is that while it's a source back to Scotland for folks in the States it's not that common here. Should maybe be compulsory?  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Friday 14 April 17 23:02 BST (UK)
Great picture and comments ... I'm sure our friends here in Worcester will be most interested in what you have written .... thanks for contributing.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Jack Hamilton on Saturday 15 April 17 10:17 BST (UK)
Sean, in one of life's ironies, I live in Worcester County, in the state of Massachusetts, worked in the City of Worcester here for about 12 years, and was a member of the Worcester Rotary Club when we hosted the Rotary Club from Worcester, UK back in the 1990s.  I used to live about 25 miles from the Historic Marker for David... but didn't know of its existence at the time.  I do need to make the drive up to see it this summer.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: buckhyne on Saturday 15 April 17 12:06 BST (UK)
Sean, in one of life's ironies, I live in Worcester County, in the state of Massachusetts, worked in the City of Worcester here for about 12 years, and was a member of the Worcester Rotary Club when we hosted the Rotary Club from Worcester, UK back in the 1990s.  I used to live about 25 miles from the Historic Marker for David... but didn't know of its existence at the time.  I do need to make the drive up to see it this summer.
Jack that Marker is an absolutely wonderful memorial to your ancestor.
If it was me I'd wait until dark, replace it with a cardboard cut-out and take the marker home.
You know it makes sense  ;D
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Monday 27 November 17 14:57 GMT (UK)
The old road over the original Powick bridge is still there but parts of it now have been lost. This occurred when a partial ringroad was built to skirt around Worcester's westside
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Sherry Duty on Monday 22 April 19 19:15 BST (UK)
earlross66
Is it possible your George Ross was captured at the battle of Dunbar?
Check out  The Scottish Prisoners of War Society, Promoting knowledge of the Scottish prisoners from the Battles of Dunbar (1650) and Worcester (1651).
https://scottishprisonersofwar.com/
Or they could have put him on the wrong list

George Ross (c 1629-), Possible Dunbar Prisoner (hm)

Published: 13 Feb 2015
Updated: 29 Sep 2018
Page contributors: Eleanor Hall, Andrew Millard, and Teresa Rust

IMPORTANT UPDATE! (July 2018)
According to, Christopher Gerrard, Pam Graves, Andrew Millard, Richard Annis, and Anwen Caffell, in, Lost Lives, New Voices: Unlocking the Stories of the Scottish Soldiers at the Battle of Dunbar 1650, (England: Oxbow Books, 2018), on page 254, George is categorized as:

Possible [that he is a Dunbar prisoner transported on the Unity]

Ross, George. Residences: New Haven CT, Elizabeth NJ. Appears: 1658. B.c.1629.  [DR; SPOWS]

For explanations of the category, abbreviations and references see List of Dunbar prisoners from Lost Lives, New Voices.

For more information please contact the descendants/researchers of George Ross. Thank you! 🙂

First Generation in the New World

1. GEORGE¹ ROSS, was born, possibly in Scotland, about 1629 and died probably in Elizabeth, New Jersey after 1670. He married at New Haven, Connecticut in 1658, CONSTANCE LITTLE.

Children of George and Constance (Little) Ross:

Sources and Notes:
George Ross was born around 1629. The family tradition was that he was a Scots soldier captured at the Battle of Dunbar in 1650 or of Worcester in 1651. He may have worked in the Saugus Iron Works in Lynn, MA. He was in New Haven, CT, then went to NJ about 1670. (Source: The Ross Family of New Jersey, by Robert Ross.)

In 1658, in New Haven, he married Constance Little and in the same year he was admitted a free man. (Source: History of Elizabeth, New Jersey by Rev. E. F. Hatfield, 1868, page 167, cited by Robert Ross.) The date, 1658, would fit in with the theory that he was a prisoner and was an indentured servant for 6-7 years.
~ Written and submitted by Eleanor Hall

Sources and Notes:
George Ross was born around 1629. The family tradition was that he was a Scots soldier captured at the Battle of Dunbar in 1650 or of Worcester in 1651. He may have worked in the Saugus Iron Works in Lynn, MA. He was in New Haven, CT, then went to NJ about 1670. (Source: The Ross Family of New Jersey, by Robert Ross.)

In 1658, in New Haven, he married Constance Little and in the same year he was admitted a free man. (Source: History of Elizabeth, New Jersey by Rev. E. F. Hatfield, 1868, page 167, cited by Robert Ross.) The date, 1658, would fit in with the theory that he was a prisoner and was an indentured servant for 6-7 years.
~ Written and submitted by Eleanor Hall

Names from George S. Stewart’s Captured at Dunbar list:
Ross, Finlay, #88 on Captured at Dunbar list
Ross, Gilchrist, #89 on Captured at Dunbar list
Ross, John, #90 on Captured at Dunbar list
Ross, Thomas, #91 on Captured at Dunbar list

Names from John and Sara list:
217. Alester Ross
218. Daniel Ross
219. James Ross
220. James Ross
221. Jonas Ross
222. David Rosse [Ross?]
223. John Rosse [Ross?]
224. John Rosse
225. John Rosse
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 22 April 19 22:33 BST (UK)
Interesting site Sherry, welcome to Rootschat!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Sherry Duty on Tuesday 23 April 19 20:04 BST (UK)
Thanks Skooch.
I am reasearching Robert Stewart, he is my 9th great-grandfather. I believe Robert was taken at Worcester and transported to
Boston on the John and Sarah, 1652.
I would like to know his origins.  Any information woud be greatly appreciated.

Robert Stewart was on the John and Sarah, with Austin Stewart, Charles Stewart, Neile Stewart,
and William Stewart. I would be I would be interested in information on any of these men, as
they could possibly be related. Information on one could possibly lead to the origins of another.

There is no record of  Robert Stewart of Norwalk, Conn. before 1660, entrys on wikitree, @https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stuart-1883
and Geni @https://www.geni.com/people/Robert-Stewart/6000000001141513033,  State: he was born 1625, and his parents are
Francis Stewart, Lord Stewart and Bothwell and Isabel Seton. From DNA of which I am no expert, those parents are not possible.
Others say he was born 1630. I have yet to find  a record with his age. have found his death cert.

STEWART CLAN MAGAZINE
Editor: George Thomas Edson

Robert Stewart of Norwalk, Conn. ^^^ ^ **

From many sources
Robert^ Stewart of Milford, Conn., bought on Mar 8, 1659^60, the home lot of Samuel Hale, in Norwalk.®
No earlier record of him has been found. He married in Norwalk June 12, 1661, Bethia Rumble,® daughter
of Thomas and Rose (Sherwood) Rumball of Stratford, Conn. He bought land May 30, 1663, of Thomas Adgate,
and bought other property Jan. 22, 1674, ^or ^'loo, which had been granted to Richard Bushnell.® He sold
land Mar. 11, 1663 '4, to John Raymond. He was a man of high standing in Norwalk, and was the founder
of an influential family. He possessed land on Ely Neck, Stewart's Meadow and Stewart's Landing. The
valuation of his estate was placed at £225 on Jan. 3, 1687. He made his will on Mar. 12, 1678'9, but no record
of his death can be found. The inventory was filed Dec. 5, 1688, by Mark St. John, Thomas Scymorc and James
Olmstead, and administration on the estate was granted to the widow Bethia and eldest son James. On^ Mar. 13, 1693 '4,
Samuel Hayes, with the two sons James and John, was appointed ,T0 distribute the estate [Fairfield county probate, iii:26o].
The date of Bethia "s death is unknown. Children:®®

Robert Stewart died 5 Dec 1688, Norfolk, Litchfield, Connecticut, USA
Bethia Rumball Stewart died 1685,  Norfolk, Litchfield, Connecticut, USA

THE FIRST SETTLERS OF NEW ENGLAND, BY JAMES SAVAGE
ROBERT, Norwalk, mov. in from Milford, where he had not been long, buying est. in N. 1660, m. 12 June 1661, Bethia,
d. of Thomas Rumball of Stratford, had
James, b. 19 Mar. 1662 ;
Abigail, Aug. 1666 ;
John, 18 Mar. 1668 ;
Deborah, May 1669;
Eliz. Sept. 1671; and
Phebe, Feb. 1673, or 4; and was liv.1687.

Message Boards
@https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9244&p=surnames.stewart
Re: Robert Stewart (1642), son of Francis Stewart & Isobel Seton?
hereldstuart (View posts)
Posted: 17 Sep 2018 07:09PM   
Classification: Query
I have just received a DNA report, which, combined with my paper trail, indicates that I descend from Robert Stewart of
Milford/Norwalk. I think it is very possible that he came over on the John and Mary in 1651/1652. However, my Y-DNA
supposedly indicates that I descend from Sir John Stewart of Bonkyll (s781.org). If this is true, our Robert could not be
the son of Francis and Isobel. Of course this is tentative and difficult to prove, but as more data comes in, we may get a
clearer picture. If only Robert Stewart had uploaded his family tree!
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: derekseanbrown on Monday 08 July 19 23:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Sherry Duty for all that info .....
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: tshogg on Friday 24 July 20 03:28 BST (UK)
I believe my ancestor, John Hogg, may have been in the Battle or Worcester and was sent to the colonies aboard the John and Sarah.  I'm look for any information about John Hogg. I believe he was born around 1640.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 24 July 20 13:02 BST (UK)
tshogg, hello and welcome to RootsChat.

Are you Sam? If so we are already in touch about John Waddell.
Title: Re: Scottish ancestors at Battle of Worcester 1651?
Post by: ev on Saturday 19 September 20 08:59 BST (UK)
Reported to Moderator -
Quote
According to documentation, I am the 9th generation after Daniel and the current spelling is Robbins.

Robertson1651 , if you wish to post on the thread you need hit the "Reply" button.


ev