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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: karenlee on Monday 18 May 09 03:15 BST (UK)
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Hi All
Trying to find out about this man's childhood without any luck at all....certificates have proved no help to date.
He was an author and wrote under the name of Paul FOUNTAIN .... his books are still available. He has been written about in newspapers and gazettes of his time and other authors have referenced his work.
He married in 1910 in Epsom also as Paul FOUNTAIN. Have him on the 1911 Census.. the only census to date. His children were all led to believe that his name was Paul FOUNTAIN. He died in 1924 in Staines as Paul FOUNTAIN.
There is a short, what we asssume to be autobiographical piece, where he refers to himself variously as John or Johnny. Claims to have been named for an uncle... Pastor Jack. Speaks of his mother's brother George, who had a business in Cheltenham in about the 1860's. Tells of a cousin Silas who went to Canada, and whom he subsequently joined in about 1866.
There are 2 births for a John FOUNTAIN that might fit... but we have no evidence of his parentage so how can we know which is ours?? Census are out as he was apparently traversing the wilderness of the Americas from the mid 1860's to at least 1895.
Is this ringing any bells for anyone out there??
Any ideas of other avenues that we might explore to find out more about him?
All information, ideas or assistance most gratefully recieved
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee,
Well you have a puzzle here ::)
As Paul died as Paul Fountain 1924 aged 72 that makes his birth c 1852.
If he went to Canada c 1866 he would have been a young man then.
Trouble is you do not know if Fountain was his birth name or his Mothers maiden name or if he was illegitimate ??? It could also just be a name he made up.
What does his Marriage Cert state re parents details and witnesses?
Trish
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Hey Trish
Tell me about it.
His marriage shows no parents and the witnesses were not related that we can tell..
He does mention his father on several occasions in his "autobiography" but not by name.
His age on the 1911 census has his birth year as about 1849.
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee,
I have started reading up on him, an interesting character ;)
Ok 1865 or thereabouts he went back to England to sell black fox pelts.
There has to be some shipping records or records of him in Canada that exist. Maybe possibly even a first marriage.
Other than trawling thru every John Fountain born 1846/1853 in England, do you have any info to narrow down where he was born?
Trish
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Trish
He could have been born in Nottinghamshire, Warwickshire, Leicestershire or Gloucestershire.
He claims to have spent time in each of those counties as he was growing up.
1911 Census says Melton Mowbray Leicestershire.
"Autobiography" says he was in Nottinghamshire when a young boy but the family moved around all the time. No idea of father's occupation, but does say that when Johnny/Paul was about 14 his father got involved with a travelling theatre and Johnny/Paul was dragged along as a ticket seller.
There aren't that many John FOUNTAINS born in the UK between 1848 and 1852... I think I found 2 on FreeBMD. No entry on the census shows a John or Jack as being maimed or crippled in any way which doesn't help us narrow down the search either.
I don't have access to any Canadian or US records which might help us out.... but surely there would be something about him if he spent nearly all his life wandering around the Americas and Canada taking photographs and notes about what he did and what he saw.
Well, you'd think so anyway.
Karenlee
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Stillbeen looking Karenlee ;D
He really did not want to make it easy.
There are a couple of arrivals in England from Canada and England late 1890's and early 1900's but unfortunately I cannot access images :(
Think this might be one for the Canadian/American researchers ;)
Trish
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Hi, i've got a world subscripton on A and wondered whether i could help? i've tried looking under John fountain but none really fit in for the rough year of births given.
if someone wants to point me in the right direction...i'l list what i come across :)
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Hi all :)
I'm looking too ...a Paul Fountain in the USA comes from Italy.
still searching
deb
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Hi again
This entry has no head of house ...just a long list of people including ...
Paul Fountain
1905 - Prairie, Keokuk, Iowa
postal address : Gibson
maybe books about him:
Paul Fountain:
Source Citation:
The Oxford Companion to Canadian History and Literature. By Norah Story. Toronto: Oxford University Press, 1967. Reprinted with corrections, 1968. (OxCCan)
Who Was Who in Literature, 1906-1934. Based on entries that first appeared in Literary Yearbook (1906-1913), Literary Yearbook and Author's Who's Who (1914-1917), Literary Yearbook (1920-1922), and Who's Who in Literature (1924-1934). Two volumes. Detroit: Gale Research, 1979. (WhLit)
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Karen,
1) is there a place of birth shown on the 1911 census? Is he the Paul Fountain in Epsom aged 63? - apologies - I can see now that it was Melton Mowbray.
2) do you have the marriage certificate - is there a father's name?
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His marriage shows no parents and the witnesses were not related that we can tell..
He does mention his father on several occasions in his "autobiography" but not by name.
His age on the 1911 census has his birth year as about 1849.
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Sorry I cannot find exact ref for what I found earlier of his possible arrival from Canada :-[
I think I just searched Paul Fountain, birth 1850, England and then just went to Immigration/Emmigration records but am not sure now. ( have been off on another challenging search)
So we are looking for a John/Paul Fountain ?? who arrived back in England to marry 1910. Some were just J. Fountain and one a Mr Fountain.
Trish
OR ANYTHING of his life in Canada/America that could help track down his birth name.
A real challenge ;D
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Hi trish :)
He seems to quiite a wanderer...almost gypsy like. I am just worried that Fountain as not his real name.
I am also looking for any Fountain who may have been a traveller in the circus as his dad dragged him off to the circus.
From Karenlee ;
*There is a short, what we asssume to be autobiographical piece, where he refers to himself variously as John or Johnny. Claims to have been named for an uncle... Pastor Jack. Speaks of his mother's brother George, who had a business in Cheltenham in about the 1860's. Tells of a cousin Silas who went to Canada, and whom he subsequently joined in about 1866.*
looking for Silas .... :-\
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Hi Deb,
Yes, you are right I have been trying to sort this one too.
If he was a Fountain, born Leicestershire, then there are only a couple of marriages ( presuming his parents married post 1837) to check out.
I have to get off soon as it is late here but if no one else has will try to find 1851 census details against these marriages.
Also the elusive Silas ::) Surname same as Johns Mothers possibly?
Pastor Jack could be a performer??
Trish
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Hi Karenlee,
If he's still published, why not try to contact his publisher?
Best wishes, Jimmijam
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Silas Fountain, 1891 Cenus of Canada ;D
Couple of them, born 1866 and 1870 and couple of possible American records too.
Off to bed,
Trish
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Hi
found Silas in Canada ... but not right POB and DOB .... :-\
reading some articles it seems that he was imprisoned in Mexico. (he was rescued by his 'Yankee' friends). He says he spent 3 months in Mexico ...the book was published in 1901 where he mentions this.
Also, in another article, he says because of his being a cripple and being "in irons" he had to give up the love of the PRAIRIES.
So I am wondering if this could be him in my previous post:
Paul Fountain
1905 - Prairie, Keokuk, Iowa
postal address : Gibson
am thinking that his travels would result in him not being around for many of the censuses.
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a picture of him
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06bw/
he also says that he arrived in the US just after the Civil War 1861-1865
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ooo just found this on IGI
Paul John Fountain
born 25 MAR 1850, Gravesend, London
died; 21 FEB 1924
wife Alice Gertrude Abbott
married; 18 AUG 1910 Cobham, Surrey
Submitted.
another submitted has his father as Thomas Fountain
can't find his birth on index ... there is a John P Fountain b Epsom 1910
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Wow, you'vd all been busy while I've been at work the past few days.
Thank you all so very much. Where to start....
kneller 1980..... any reference to either a Silas or Paul or John FOUNTAIN in the USA or Canada, with birthplace UK, from about 1860-ish onwards would be most helpful please.
deb... the marriage and death date have been confirmed as correct by me.... but like you could not find the birth on the index. Have never found a Thomas FOUNTAIN with a son of the right age or with similar names. Could well be him in 1905 that you found, and I guess that if he did wander as much as he claims to have, then finding him on a census in any country will be difficult if not impossible. He has been mentioned in several books but usually only mentions his literary contributions not his personal life.
jimmijam... we have several of his books, so I will try contacting the Publishers. Thanks for that idea.
I did find a reference to a Pastor Jack FOUNTAIN but his age would have made him more of a contemporary of Paul FOUNTAIN but not old enough to be the uncle of imposing physical presence who hauled him back home after he had tried to run away the first of many times, as recalled by Paul.
Makes you wonder how much of that "overactive imagination" he used to create a personae for himself....
Karenlee
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View Record Name Death Date Death Location Purchase Image at Cook County Records
View Record
Silas Fountain 13 Apr 1931 Cook County, IL Purchase from Cook County
i've found a death record for a Silas fountain-see above :)
A marriage record?
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still hunting :)
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Another Silas Fountan Canada marriage:
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i found this but obviously birth dates don't add u ??? ::)
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Do you know his EXACT year of birth?
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i
Do you know his EXACT year of birth?
Nope, that's one of the mysterys we'd love to solve.....
Thanks for the information on Silas possibles... I will see what I can track down on them from the UK side of things.
Trying to keep an eye on the flood waters downstairs so I'll be in and out for the next little while....
Cheers
Karenlee
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come across this-would fit in with age etc loosely...tho coming from South Africa, any idea if he ended up there?
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Where abouts are you? flood water?! eeekkk! i'm i the UK and it has been raining hard :(
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Oh poor you up with a sick small person all night... I remember those days..... mine both had chickenpox as well when they were younger.
I'm in Brisbane in Queensland and we're being drowned at the moment... had some ridiculous amount of rain over the last day or so... flooding and landslips and power failures... all good fun... NOT....
Who on Earth knows where our Mr FOUNTAIN ended up..... he was supposedly in Mexico for a while, so I guess South Africa isn't out of the question. Wonder what occupation was given for this one... must have a look and see...
Cheers
Karenlee
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Pastor Jack
There seem to have been at least 3 pastors by the name of John Jack.
1) John Jack 1797-1863 born West Linton Peebles, married Elizabeth Morrison circa 1819 and was a missionary in Russia for some years. On return to UK was pastor of Castle Green Chapel in Bristol in 1830's and then pastor of the Independent Chapel at Kingbridge Devon until his death in 1863. Elizabeth died 1850 and John married Magdalen Bremner in 1857. She was born in St Augustine's Bristol circa 1812.
2) John Jack pastor of Calton Prebyterian Church in Glasgow from1862
3) John Jack, Baptist pastor of Ann Carr's chapel in Leylands, Leeds from 1870
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Just wondering why he settled in Epsom.
There was an Emily Fountain, single, born circa 1850 in the Epsom Workhouse in 1891 and 1901 (and I think 1911), birthplace not known.
Could there be a connection?
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Tells of a cousin Silas who went to Canada, and whom he subsequently joined in about 1866.
I've just been reading an article on Paul Fountain's life as a trapper, in the New York Times February 27 1904.
It says that in 1865 at the age of 17, he was one of a party of hunters engaged in seeking furs for the Hudson's Bay Company. So he must have come to Canada before 1866.
The article goes on to say that in his days as a peddler in the US he was based for a while in Memphis.
There's a JJ Fountain aged 33 from England in New Orleans in 1880 - is there any mention of New Orleans in the books?
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Thanks ShaunJ
I have no definite information on exactly where our Mr FOUNTAIN was in the USA at anytime really. The only references we have are from his books and from articles like the one that you found. We still have no real physical proof...ie shipping records or census records... that he was there at all. There has been lots of speculation in the past, by both academics and the family, that he was never there :o :o
As there is no one still living that remembers meeting him at all, we don't know how badly he was crippled or how mobile he was. Considering that he was quite old when he married into our family and had children, it would be impossible for anyone to have known what he was like in his younger years either. There are no family photographs of him at all that we have been able to track down.
So as you can imagine, our first priority is proving he was in the USA, but that is not an easy task.....
Cheers
Karenlee
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What was his address in the Epsom area Karen?
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Shaun
Last known address in Epsom was 2 Oakfield Villas.
Karenlee
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The only Oakfield Villas I can find is in Cobham (Anyards Road/Oakfield Road).
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Hi Karenlee,
Paul Fountain is my grandfather I am in New Zealand.
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Hi Chat- a- Lot,
Welcome to Rootschat :) :) ;D
Karenlee wil be thrilled you have found her ;)
She is probably in a different timezone as us in Aust/NZ and will be back on later.
Trish
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Hi Trish,
Thank you it is great to be here.
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Going to shut this thread down now, with Chat - a - lots arrival on the scene I think I might have a great source of information about this man.
With grateful thanks to all that contributed and searched, I will let you know what we sort out about htis man.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi karenlee and everyone
Keep us updated ...so glad you and chat-a-lot found each other! ;D
deb x
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Have just discovered these messages about a search for Paul Fountain. If you are talking specifically about the Paul Fountain who was married to Gertude Alice Abbott, please write to me as I am just getting started working on this family's genealogy. My son in law is a direct descendent. Would love to correspond with other descendents and work together.
Thanks from Nora
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I have Paul Fountain as being the parents of my mother-in-law. She lived in New Zealand and died a couple of years ago. Name was Eva Bertha.
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So nice to hear from you- do you know how to find my e address so we can write directly? Out of all their children then, only my son in law's grandmother is still alive, at age 94! Hope to hear more from you- Nora in Alberta, Canada
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hi was just browsing when came cross this site and topic, my greatgrandfather was paul fountain and have very fnd memories as a child of my greatgrandmother Gertude Abbott, i heard stories of him been 1st white man to find the amazon river and how he was crippled by falling off a horse rearing on his exploring. My grandmother was concieved when he was 68years of age, my great grandmother was some what younger and due to his accident/death my grandmother and siblings had to be put into an orphanage until the Gertude was sent to New Zealand to stay with her brother and family via church hope that helps
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Hi KarenLee
I am the granddaughter of his stepdaughter Gertrude Lilian Margaret Power who later used his name until she married though there was no formal adoption and she was the elder sister of John Paul, Thomas William, Robert George, Mabel, Betty, William and Eva Fountain who emigrated with their mother Gertrude Alice Fountain to New Zealand in 1926. It is my first time using this site and I am new to genealogy. I would love to know how far you got researching Paul Fountain?
regards
Jill
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Hello Karen -
My husband is Paul Fountain's great-grandson. Through ancestry DNA and newly discovered relatives, we now know who 'Paul Fountain' is and his background (including his birth name).
Perhaps you've discovered this already?
Regards,
Debra