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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Wychwd4 on Monday 18 May 09 09:09 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am new to Roots Chat and quite new to genealogy, but it's already grabbed me :)! My great grandfather, Timothy Edward Mannix,was born in Ireland about 1846.
He was married in London in 1876. How do I research his birth and possible death in Ireland (He left my great grandmother in about 1891-1892). I have no knowledge of counties etc. By the way his profession was a cordwainer or shoe/boot maker to us.
I would appreciate any help that you can give me
Regards
Wychwd4
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Welcome!
Civil registration had not begun in 1846 (started for births in 1864) so the only way to find his birth would be to know what parish he was born in and check their records in the National Library. So it sounds like finding his birth is a dead end (pardon the pun) for now.
For his death, if he did die in Ireland: have a look at the LDS family search site:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=collectionDetails;t=searchable
From a cursory look, there are several Timothy Mannixs in the Cork/Kerry area. You can narrow the search to just deaths. I see one there, born 1849 died 1915 in Waterford which may be possible.
If you decide to order a cert, you need to download the form from the www.groireland.com website and send it to them by fax or post with your credit card details or a Euro cheque.
I presume you have checked all the censuses for England for him? That might give a location in Ireland as birth.
Best of luck,
Purpeller
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Thankyou for your help, Perpeller. It was from the 1891 census that I found out that he was born in Ireland and no area was given. Can you tell me if a death cert. gives the wifes name and or children?
Regards
Wychwd4
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It doesn't as standard but the person who registered the death is often a wife or child.
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Unfortunatley in this case his wife and eight children were left in London, but thanks anyway.
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Deaths.
Persons required to register deaths were.
1 some person present at death; or
2 some person in attendance during the last illness of the deceased;or
3 the occupier of the house where death took place;or
4 someone else residing in the house where death took place;or
5 any person present at,or having knowledge of the circumstances of,the death.
The information they were required to supply was;
1 date and place of death;
2 the name and surname of the deceased;
3 sex of deceased;
4 the condition of the deceased as to marriage;
5 the age of the deceased at last birthday;
6 the rank,profession,or occupation of deceased
7 the certified cause of death,and the duration of the final illness.
The informant and the register were both required to sign each entry,which was also to include the date of registeration,the residence of the informant and his or her qualification ;example present at death;Notice of the death was to be given to the register within seven days and full details within fourteen days.
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Thankyou for your help. I think it will be a long research.
I now have his marriage cert. that names his father as Dennis Mannix also a cordwainer but only gives Timothy's age as "full age". Maybe it would be easier to look for Birth records. I believe that if he was returning to Ireland it would probably be to the county of his birth.
Thats only supposition of course.
Thanks again
Wychwd4
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Maybe it would be easier to look for Birth records. I believe that if he was returning to Ireland it would probably be to the county of his birth.
As has already been explained, to find church records of a baptism, etc. you need to know at least the parish where the family lived.
Civil registration had not begun in 1846 (started for births in 1864) so the only way to find his birth would be to know what parish he was born in and check their records in the National Library. So it sounds like finding his birth is a dead end (pardon the pun) for now.
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I'd say it's worth ordering that 1915 death cert that Purpeller mentioned... none of the estimated year of births for the other Timothy Mannix deaths are even close.
You could be lucky and find some known family member listed as informant, but it will also include age and occupation which could help establish a connection... if there is one.
Shane
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The Timothy Mannix who died in 1915 was listed in index as being 66 years old.
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Thankyou both for your help. Yes i will order a death cert. but not for a week or two. The budget doesn't stretch to too many out goings :D
Regards
Wychwd4
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I'm Researching the same Timothy Edawrd Mannix on behalf of his Great Great Grandaughter. My searches have been much in vain as yours has. The 1891 census seems to be the only confirmed record of him in england with his wife lydia and 8 children. No records appear after or before this. Only clue is birthplace Ireland,Limerick listed
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This would appear to be your man
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13006042/person/-141162033?ssrc=
It suggests he was born Limerick
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Should you want him in 1901 census, you can get him here
in Ancestry Census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=timothy&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000=lydia&_80018000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&pcat=1901UKI&h=21465606&recoff=1+89&db=uki1901&indiv=1)
Mistranscribed under "Mannet"
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Ur a genius. Thanks for the 1901 reference. This has revaled another child during the 10 years after the previous census. This man must of liked a big family. 9 in total. Timothy still draped in mystery. No exact town or date of birth. Dennis Mannix listed as his father in ireland according to his marraige cert, but thats all the info i could find. Still no record of timothy's death. Have been told researching irish records much more difficult.
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Ur a genius.
Yes, I know :)
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His wife died here
Deaths Dec 1931
Mannix Lydia A 80 Fulham 1a 370
The probability is he died in London between 1901 and 1930. Could have been mistranscribed
If you got that death cert it would at least tell you if she was a widow, ie prove whether he was dead then
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Timothy Mannix baptised in St John's RC church, Limerick city 1841. Father's name Denis ref. http://www.irish-roots.ie/
you may find some info on here re burials http://www.limerickcity.ie/Press/Pressreleasesarchive/2009/LimerickBurialRegisterOnline/
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Hi gryalln1969.
It was good to see Timothy listed in the 1901 census and the link from 'agho' looks very promising.
His daughter Florence was my grandmother and the story was that he left the house to see a client and never returned. Granny Flo was supposed to have been very young when that happened - but she couldn't have been that young!
Poor Flo - she married in 1912, had a child in 1913, another in 1914, her husband Thomas Joseph Barrett enlisted in Feb. 1915 and was killed in the Balkans on 7th December 1915. Life wasn't easy for her.
For which of Timothy's children is your research?
:)
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Hello Wychwd4
Was hoping you would respond. My partner ( Sarah Jayne Mannix ) is the Great Grandaughter of John Guy Mannix Born Approx 1883, older brother to Florence. John Guy Married Sarah Jane Stanley and had 6 Children. He continued his fathers trade of cordwainers. Many of his 6 children also had large families leading to an extensive Mannix Family Tree of 40 plus decendants of Guy Mannix (as he is sometimes recorded). Some of whom as recently as last year still resided in the west London fulham area. I am in the process of posting what i have discovered so far on the ancestry family tree maker but have many hours of research still to do as i have only begun this recently and i am a Genealogy Novice. I have ordered Lydia A Mannix ( Timothys Wife ) Death Cert in the hope it will help continue the research back further and help solve the mystery of timothy's dissapearence . I believe Maud Mannix ( Florence's older Sister ) Died Age 4 shortly after the 1891 census thus explaining her absence from the 1901 census. Your Grandmother Flo would have been still a baby then and at first thought this might of had something to do with his vanishing act but the 1901 census ( 10 years later ) clearly lists him still at home aged 55. I am currently looking into the rest of your grandmother's brothers and sisters for clues. Wondering if he may of gone back to ireland. Hopefully we'll crack this together.
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As far as i know this is the last few know facts About Timothy Mannix.
1890 Birth of daughter Florence.
1891 Census listed current residence at 42 church path fulham with his family.
Later 1891 Death of Daughter Maud
1892 Birth of son Albert ( His final child )
1901 Census still listed at 42 church path fulham. He was 55 years old. His eldest daughter ( Lydia Mary Mannix ) and 2 Eldest sons ( Dennis and Thomas ) no longer living with parents. ????????
Florence would have been 11 years old by then and then he vanishes.
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G'day gryalln1969
I have their marriage certificate ( Timothy and Lydia) and would be quite happy to send you a copy. I am compiling our family tree on Ancestor.com. and would be happy to invite you as a guest if you contact me via ancestry. you will find the link on http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13006042/person/-141162033?ssrc=
If you contact me on that site, and forward your email address, I will send a copy of their marriage cert.
I remember Granny Flo very well. When my father (her first born) and my mother married they lived very close to gran - who had remarried. Because of the early death of his father, my father was brought up by one of Flo's sisters. :)
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I have just had a look at the irish site http://www.irish-roots.ie/ and they require €5.00 per look. That equates to about 10 aussie dollars - too rich for a pensioner ( :-\), but I will have a look at the other site when i have a bit more time.
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More news on the mysterious dissapperence of Timothy Mannix. Just recieved his wifes death cert. Lydia Ann Mannix ( formerly jones ) died 18th November 1931. Cause myocardial degreneration. For the non medical of us thats just a gradual weakening of the heart muscle often resulting in failure but at the grand old age of 80 i think we would just call it natural causes. She is still listed as the WIDOW of timothy mannnix at the time of her death and it was registered by one of her daughter in laws who was present when she died. I may be wrong but this may narrow the search. i'm thinking he may of died in the uk between 1901 and 1931 and it may be misscopied into the ancestry records. address at time of her death 18 lintaine grove ( no furthe info )
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Wouldn't narrow down Timothy's date of death just going by the death certificate. According to your first post he left her in 1890s so would she really have know if Timothy was actually dead or did she just call herself a widow all for many years- and daughter-in-law who registered the death was perhaps just going by the 'fact' that Lydia was a 'widow.'
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Wouldn't narrow down Timothy's date of death just going by the death certificate. According to your first post he left her in 1890s so would she really have know if Timothy was actually dead or did she just call herself a widow all for many years- and daughter-in-law who registered the death was perhaps just going by the 'fact' that Lydia was a 'widow.'
We have since found Timothy and Lydia in the 1901 census so have revised his "disappearance" to after that date.
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Thanks gryalln1969 for the info on Lydia's death. We will just have to keep checking. He will appear somewhere.
aghadowey is quite correct, many abandoned women referred to themselves as 'widows' even into the 20th century
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Slaters directory for Killarney (Kerry) 1881 lists a Dennis Mannix living in New Street and surprisely enough he is a boot and shoe maker.
We have a Annie Mannix 1 Military Road, Limerick. Slaters 1894
Slaters 1846 Limerick
We have a Cornelius Mannix, oyster dealer, little william street, Limerick
John Mannix, publican, Military walk,
Michael Mannix, smith, west watergate.
Slaters 1881
George Mannix, spirit dealer, Military road
James B mannix, civil engineer, Glencore.
Hopefully some of this may help.
Ams
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Thankyou ambs for all of your help. I really appreciate it. We will see if it fits :)
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Hi Gryalln
I just came across your posts and noted that you were related to the Mannix and Stanley family. Sarah Jane Stanley was my great aunt. I wonder if you can help me out with such things as birth, death and marriage certs or just info.
If you wish to email direct I will give you the address.
Cheers
dave
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Welcome to Rootschat. After you've made 3 posts you can use PM (personal message) system to exchange email addresses, recent family details, etc. which aren't allowed to be posted here.
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Hi again,
subsequent to my last post I have come across an interesting entry in the marriage of Sarah Stanley and John Mannix. The father is listed as Robert Thomas Mannix and the date is June 12th 1904, any comments. I can't send a copy as file is too big.
dave
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You are only allowed to post a small portion of a marriage (or birth/death) certificate for deciphering purposes.