RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: vince smith on Saturday 23 May 09 18:41 BST (UK)
-
Hello all,
I am a Gypsy Smith and my Grt Grandfather Guilroy, son of James Smith and Sarah Lock appears on the census in the late 1800's in Leonard Stanley Glos.
I know ( thanks to RG1) that Guilroy had a brother Gypsy Reuben Smith a preacher. This is a great family enigma. No one knows if this man is related to Rodney Smith. Over generations tales of the men have become interintwined according to the illiterate,oral tradition of my family. My great uncle Luke Smith told of meeting one of the preachers on the frontline. When he introduced himself,the preacher had him sent home because he was too young to fight.
My Grandad thought that the two men were one and the same but this now seems unlikely. I know that Rodney's Grandad was a James Smith and that hehad a multitude of children from more than one woman.
Please could anyone shed any light at all on this 50 year old family mystery. My Dad is in his late seventies and i would love to find the answers for him as well as myself. :)
-
hello vince
seems like eveyone has read the thread but you got no answers. ;D
im not much help either :( the info i have is from a collection of records including the books by terence lee, rodney smith's own book on his life and other helpful roots chatters who have kindly shared their info with me. but i will tell you what i have on rodney
married ann elizabeth pennock, dec 1879 at whitby had 2 sons and 1 daughter. married mary alice shaw 02/06/1938 in hollywood usa he was 78yr and she was 27yr. rodneys father was cornelius smith. rodney died on board a ship on its way to/from america (i can check that if you need me to) 1947.
no reuben anywhere that i have found but the smiths are not my main line and i have only a little info on them. good luck though.
there is a tree on ancestry "bowman" who have a long line associated with the smiths, thye may be able to help. 8)
-
Thanks for the reply aa1 Webb,
At least i know the answer is not in the Terrence lee books. I wonder if it will ever be solved because some very well informed people have had a crack at it for me. I would be very grateful for any imfo that anyone has on the Gloucester Smiths, that along with the family anecdotal evidence just might spring a surprise.
Thanks again.
-
Hi Vince, I have the Worcestershire Gypsys in my line they are the Smiths. Sounds like they would be too far away to be yours. However just incase they did travel north I have a Reuben Smith 1816 married Ann.. probable surname Coles. I have found nine of their children. not much help I know. cheers Joy
-
hi again vince,
i did'nt mean that there was'nt any info in t.lee's books :o i meant that the info (well, some of it) i obtained came from his books, it may be that there is something in his books, i do not know myself, but i do know he has 3 or maybe 4 books and 1 is for mainly smiths.
as i said the smiths are not my main line and so i did not need to follow this line they just appeared sometimes through marriages.
it might be worth you contacting the author to see if he has this line of smiths in his books??
kushti bok
-
Thanks for the replies, aa1 Webb and Lucky Jo.
I think that I need to get the Terrence Lee books. I mean to get serious about Gypsy genealogy as a whole and it would be a good start. :)
I think that there is a fair chance that there is a connection with the worcester Smiths. There are so many Reubens in the family and I know that they stopped all over the west of England.
Thanks to RG1, I know that My Grt Grt Grandad Guilroy also had brothers called Josiah and Reuben as well has half brothers, this particular James Smith having had more than one woman.
Thanks again for your help, Vince. :)
-
I have a couple of head and shoulder drawings of a Reuben Smith made in the mid 1980s by a friend, the artist Richard Walker. They are described as 'Reuben Smith, the Gypsy.' Richard lived in Croydon and my guess is that he came accross Reuben in the South Downs area.
-
Hello i am Guildroy Smiths great great grandaughter, his boy willie/ william smith married my great granny Rosena coles, my dad told me about how they had their paintings and portraits took, is there any more information on Guildroy smith and his family and has anyone got the portraits of guildroy and his family.
-
Hello Shanie.
Which William Smith are you talking about ?
Is it Willem who lost an eye to a peg knife?
My father is Cudal Smith some of your family might know him. We have photos here of guldroy and family. I’m happy to send to you and your family. All the best. Vince Smith.
-
Hello
Willie smith had these sisters: carroline they called her currie or poppy
Gorgina she drowned herself
Linda
Julie
Petty i think her name was really patricia
Amy who married Johnny Davis
Albert but they called him gilbert and gilly
Danny
Maurice
Willie who was my dads granfer
Ernie they might have called him edward
These were all guildroys and evie smiths children they might have had more, these are the ones we can think of Guildroy was a coppersmith who sharpened knifes and they was all from Gloucester way.
I would love to see the photos thanks.
-
Yes Shainie
That’s Willems family. He was the last to live with old Guilroy in Leonard Stanley where he’s buried. I know the descendants of Curry’s family and I’ve heard about the woman who drowned. Private message me and I’ll send you the pictures. If you go on Eric trudgill’s gypsy genealogy website all our breed are on there under the heading Merryk Lock.
-
Oh yes and how do i private message you for the photos? And have you got anymore information about the family i would love to find more about them thankyou.
-
Hello Shainie and Vince
I have just been reading your messages. Gildroy & Eve are my great, great grandparents. Their son William (Willem) was married to Martha. I have not yet found any absolute evidence that Martha was the daughter of Natty & Annie but Eric Trudgill's latest book about the Lock Family does suggest that she is.
William & Martha had a son Willie who is named with them on the 1911 Census at Trowbridge in Wiltshire along with his sister who is my grandmother. She is named on the Census as Louisa but her name was in fact Emily Louisa. The other siblings named on the 1911 Census are Georgina, Julia, Tilly, Colena (aka Lena or Corrie), Amy and Elizabeth. The others were born later but they were Ernie, Linda, Israel (aka Danny), Gilbert, Charity Patricia (aka Patty) and Maurice. Corrie & her husband Butcher had a daughter named Poppy.
Do either of you have trees on Ancestry? I have a picture of Emily-Louisa on my tree.
Vince, hope you don't mind me asking but I would love to see any photos you may have too.
Does your dad remember Emily Louisa?
Shainie, my dad told me that Willie was married to an Ena - was Rosina's name perhaps shortened to Ena? and that they had a daughter Eileen.
Hope some of this information helps.
best wishes
Lambfran.
-
Yes they is the ones me great granfer willie and great granny rosena they is me dads granny and granfer and his mum was eileen she married me granfer hubert bath and she had a sister kathleen but we called her cathy she died 2013 i think shes berried with me granny rosena up yately church and no i havent got ancestory do i have to pay for it to see it on there. Whats your dads name so i can tell me dad when he gets back because that must be his uncle. Me dad also said about me granny rosena said they had their paintings took im trying to find them enol have you heard about that? Any information about them or their familys i would love to know thankyou.
-
Hi Shainie
yes, Ancestry is a subscription based website so it is a pay to use one.
I didn't know about the paintings that were done, I hope you are able to track them down to see them. My dad would have been a cousin to your grandmother Eileen.
I have very few old photographs of my grandparents. I guess they just didn't have many pictures taken in the past.
Best wishes, lambfran
-
I have today published a book on the Romany Smith family.
https://www.richedmunds.co.uk/early-gypsy-families-3
I did quite a bit of research on Reuben Smith, there are several pages covering him and his life as a preacher in England and New Zealand, and various photographs, some with his brother Gilderoy and Gilderoy's family. It also contains several full page colour prints of the paintings Dame Laura Knight later made of Gilderoy's family members at Mansion Lane in Iver, in the 1930s, which her estate were kind enough to license for use in the book.
-
Thanks for this update on your book Richard. I will order a copy and look forward to reading it & seeing the photos of Gildroy's family.
-
Thanks Lambfran, hope it is helpful for your family research.