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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Annied22 on Tuesday 26 May 09 12:14 BST (UK)
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I bought an old dictionary yesterday. It was published in 1823 and in 1831 was owned by John and Hannah Marsh. The front endpapers and the back of the frontispiece have been used by their son Joshua to record the births of his children.
Joshua Marsh son of John and Hannah Marsh was born July 23rd 1823 at Flushes in the Township of Austonley.
Mary Crossland the daughter of George and Ruth Crossland was born August 14th 1829 at Holmbridge in Township of Austonley.
Ann Marsh the daughter of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born Springlane Mill in the Township of Upper Thong January 28th 1852 and departed this world the same ?
Hugh Marsh, the son of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born at Bottoms in the Township of Upper Thong November 28th 1852
Rose Anna Marsh the daughter of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born at Bottoms in the Township of Upper Thong July 28th 1854
Eliza Marsh the daughter of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born July 27th 1856 in the Township of Upper Thong Victoria
Crossland Marsh, the son of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born March 3rd 1858 at Dyson's Hill in the Township of Cartworth
John William Marsh the son of Joshua and Mary Marsh was born February 1st 1862 at Dyson's Mill in the Township of Cartworth
Joseph Crossland Marsh son of J & M Marsh born July 27th 1865 at Dyson's Mill in the Township of Cartworth
George A Marsh son of J & M Marsh born August 1st 1868 at Dyson's Mill in the Township of Cartworth.
There's also mention of Joseph Mellor, son of Betty Mellor, born March 4th 1841
After the name of Hannah Marsh there's a word that looks like "Flaushouse", but googling it hasn't produced anything. Does it mean anything to anyone here?
At the moment the book has no boards and the pages are detached from the rest of the book so would be quite easy to scan or photograph if anyone here is related to the family and would like copies. (I'm a hobby bookbinder, so in due course, I'll be reattaching the pages and rebinding the book.)
Ann
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There's a place called Flush House at Holme nr Holmfirth.
Your offer is most kind, I wish the Marsh's were my ancestors.
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That would tie in with Joshua being born in Flushes, so I think you're right. I've also got a 2 volume 1805 edition of "The Traveller's Guide", and out of curiosity I looked all the placenames up in that, but not one of them is mentioned.
I found the book at Barter Books in Alnwick, a fair way from its original home. Makes you wonder what happened to it after it left the Marsh Family.
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Hi
There a new website just set up about Holme and its inhatitants I'm sure the Site would be interested with your info.
http://www.werelate.org/wiki/HolmeVillageHome
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I had a look and they already have some details of a Marsh Family. There's a Mary, born in 1845 in Upper Thong who married a Joseph Marsh. Although they don't match any of the entries in my book, there may well be a connection.
I've now repaired and got some nice sharp shots of the pages, so I'll send them to the website.
Researching family history is so popular now that it seems such a shame to stumble across something like this and not share it.
Edited to add that I've now searched high and low on the page and while I can find an invitation to contact the webmaster, I can't find a link to an email addie for him/her.
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Hi Ann
I've sent a PM with his Email address or see his link on Roots and PM him by Roots so you have two roots back to the website contact
Dale Rodgers or Drogers poster
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=344493.new;topicseen#new
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Thanks very much for that, its just the kind of miscellany I hope to incorporate in my site.
Currently I only have extensive gedcom (family linked database) info for Holme but its very close and the surnames are common in my study.
When I have incorporated it with appropriate links I will post a lnk here.
The latest info I can find on Ancestry is the 1901 census where Son George (32) is Inkeeper at the dog and partridge Inn. Hinchliffe Mill. Living with wife Annie, Mother Mary and Sons Fred (4) Hubert (2) and unnamed (1 week).
I seem to remember the Dog and Partridge was recently called the Eareknucle Boys.
If anyone would like to contribute any miscellany regarding the Holee Valley please do, either here, by email or on www.werelate.org/wiki/HolmeVillageHome
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Glad to know it's of interest. I can send high resolution copies for printing off if needs be.
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Hi All
Glad we got results and everyone happy. There must be loads of stuff for Holme and Holmevalley out there and Dale's work to make a data website for this info used in conjuntion with Rootschat/Ancestry.com websites as people to see it................can't be bad.
Happy reading
Dobby
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It's refreshing to find such a record in other than a family bible, for a change.
Thanks for getting in touch Ann.
Thanks for putting Ann in touch Dobby. ..happy hoppy
cheers, Geoffrey
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Hi
Many old books like that in old books shops left unoticed by the passing crowds one would think.Yet! out there are families hoping for such things to come their way. If more people were like Ann using this and other websites to bring info to the forefront of online media. People don't seem to have the same interest in the UK in ancestry as other countires being the intigue and excitment of ancestors from distant lands!. Only from the otherside of the hill up here in a lot of cases.
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Very interested to see this posting.
First of all, as a native of Holmbridge, I can confirm that the local pronunciation of Flushhouse is "Flushes" (as near as makes no difference). I would be happy to locate all the various other places mentioned in the list of births - they are all familiar to me and are still in use today, with the exception of Dyson's Mill which was, I think, later known as Perseverance Mills and is located at Victoria between Holmfirth and Hinchliffe Mill, a mere stone's throw from Bottoms.
I am researching my Barnes ancestors. My 2G grandfather, William Barnes (b 1825 in Hayfield Derbyshire), married Mary Crosland (b 1826 in Holmbridge) in 1848. Mary was the daughter of Dan Crosland (sometimes Crossland) b about 1783 in Hepworth. She died a widow in Hinchliffe Mill in 1865 and the informant of her death was a Joshua Marsh of Dyson Mill Cartworth (see above). I have been trying to discover what connection, if any, there was between the Barnes/Crosland family and Joshua Marsh. I had reason to believe that Joshua Marsh married a Mary Cros(s)land (presumably a different one from my 2G grandmother!) in Sep Q 1851 though have not yet traced them through the parish records or bought a certificate. I had also calculated that my Joshua Marsh was born in 1823 (backdating from the only death of that name age 72 in 1895). It therefore certainly looks as though my Joshua Marsh is the same one as in your original posting.
It seems increasingly likely that the Crosland (Crossland) link is indeed the answer. Perhaps Dan and George Cros(s)land are brothers? I shall pursue this line of enquiry. It would be very good to fit your Croslands in with mine to confirm it.
Other possible dates of relevance are:
Death of Joshua Marsh Sep Q 1895 age 72 and death of Mary Marsh March Q 1907 age 77.
Robert
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That'll make my day if the info from my dictionary has actually helped your research! Let me know if you'd like me to email you pics of the entries.
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That would be great - but it will be best to communicate via private message and I haven't done 3 postings yet so we can't. Except that this is posting number 2.....
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and with any luck, this will count as posting number 3...
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Coming into the chat a bit late but I feel sure that the Marshes and Mellors of Austonley/Flushouse are relatives of mine, though not directly.
My Marshes are David b.appx.1775 + Sarah b.1772/1778 nee Barber.
Their dghtr Ellen b.appx.1808 md.James Mellor - he farmed land nr. Mellor Lane in Austonley.
Their son was Joseph Mellor but b. 1825.
The people mentioned in your book must surely be linked to my ancestors but as yet I'm not sure how.
David Marsh is my 4x g.grandfather. James Mellor is my 3xg.grandfather.
Would love to see the document - maybe I can work out how they fit into my tree.
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If you PM me your email addie, I'll send you copies.
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Just to let you know that we are making good progress with the Marshes. I won't post a full account yet because there is more I want to do, but the following interim report may be of interest:
Betty Mellor is shown as "Female Servant" age about 20 - 24 in the Joshua Marsh household in Flushhouse in 1841, and Joseph also shows up, aged 3 months so that all ties in nicely with the dictionary.
Joshua had several younger siblings but most may not have survived childhood.
Joshua's father, John Marsh, appears to have died around June 1839, and his mother, Hannah, remarried - to a Peter Gyte (or Gite) in about September 1840. It is these two adults who appear with the Marsh children and Betty and Joseph Mellor in the 1841 census. There do not appear to have been any subsequent Gyte/Gite children.
I have not yet linked Mary Crossland (Joshua's wife) to my Cros(s)lands though I have high hopes.
Another fascinating fact which only came to light yesterday is that Joshua's surviving sister, the conveniently unusually-named Tirzah Marsh, married a John Crossland in June 1855! Could this be a case of brother and sister marrying sister and brother? We'll see. Tirzah Crosland (the spelling seems to be interchangeable with Crossland) died in the Huddersfield district in 1910 age 77, putting her year of birth at around 1833.
Robert
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PS. Hannah Marsh's date of birth can be fixed at around 1797 but I don't yet have her maiden name. She was born in Flushhouse, Austonley, so is definitely a local.
R
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Well we've cracked it. I now know how the Marshes/Crosslands of the dictionary are related to my Croslands. George Cros(s)land, the father of Joshua Marsh's wife Mary, is the older brother of my great great grandmother Mary Crosland (later Barnes) - both being children of Dan and Mary Crosland originally of Hepworth. I now have quite a comprehensive file on that Crosland family in the early/mid nineteenth century if anyone wants to know more.
It may also be of interest to note that George Cros(s)land's wife Ruth was a Heywood and that Joshua Marsh's mother Hannah's maiden name was Mellor - hence the Mellor connection of the dictionary.
Many thanks for helping to make all this possible. Without the information on the dictionary I would almost certainly not have worked out why Joshua Marsh was the informant on my great great grandmother's death certificate.
R
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You're very welcome. I'm delighted there's been so much interest (I think I've emailed the pages to about half a dozen folk so far), and that it's helped you to establish a connection and tie up a few loose ends. It's also been interesting to find out where the Mellor entries fit in.
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If WRC35a happens to come across David Marsh b.appx 1776 and his wife Sarah of Flushouse/Austonley I'd be glad to hear any info ( I have them in the 1841 census and a few refs in the Holmfirth parish records but haven't got onto matching David with your Marshes yet)
Thanks in advance.
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Just to confirm a rural stereotype, I have only just discovered that I am related to some Mellors of Flushhouse via an 1881 marriage in another strand of the family. I'll put a note on here if I find out exactly how they link in to the Mellors and Marshes of the dictionary.
R
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This was an amazing find! And what help it's been eh!
I have stumbled upon this because I'm researching some obscure cottage in hoobram that my ancestors lived in. They were all from the Holme ridge,Hinchcliffe mill areas. We are the wibberleys/field. I will certainly keep my eye out on my research for any of these names you guys have mentioned :-)
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Great that this thread is still of interest eight years after I first started it!
The dictionary itself has long since been given a new lease of life by being repaired and rebound and looks a lot smarter than it did when I first bought it.
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yes its great that its still going! i was unsure weather to comment but seen as names from the area came up i thought i would throw in my family names ''just in case''
Glad the book is doing well and nice and rebound :-)
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It should be good for another couple of hundred years now!
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That’s great! Just the way history should be :-)