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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: toby webb on Saturday 30 May 09 22:10 BST (UK)
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In about 1938, part of Charlotte Place, Margate became Charlotte Square. There were 2 public houses in Charlotte Place and both were given new numbers in Charlotte Sq. Referring to the plan, A was the George & Dragon ( now Quart in a Pint Pot ) and somewhere about B was the Liverpool Arms ( now demolished ). I was wondering if anyone is able to confirm that it was the Liverpool Arms and whether its position is correct.
Many thanks, Toby.
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Hi Toby
Liverpool Arms, 22 Charlotte Place, Margate
http://deadpubs.co.uk/
ricky
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Thanks Ricky for that lead. Chalotte Place being such an odd shape originally, it is quite difficult to see what number a property may have had. I think I am probably right about the position of the Liverpool Arms but would be happier if someone actually knew. A question. I suppose, of when was it pulled down and how old the readers are.
Toby.
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Hello There
What an interesting subject! The Liverpool Arms dated from 1811, though Cobb's Papers mention a Liverpool Arms in 1786 so possible that it was rebuilt. It was refused another license in 1951 after only three and half barrels were being sold a week. The biggest factor for its closure was the council compulsory purchasing the land and buildings around Charlotte Square, which were now in such a state of decline it was classed a slum area.
The adult population within 100 yards of the premises was 163, within 200 yards 952, 300 yards 1,688 and 400 yards 2,552.
Within 100 yards there were six licensed premises in 400 yards 28! Before demolition started there were 134 houses in the area, which estimated 4 adults to each, gave a population of 546. The houses were replaced with 86 flats housing 288. This faces Charlotte Square today and I have digressed as this west side of the Square was exactly where the Liverpool Arms was.
See attached map and pictrure. If you use this for anything other than interest can you please credit me.
Many Thanks
Suzannah Foad
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Hi Suzannah,
Your reply was better than anything I had dared hope for. Photograph too. Marvellous.
My great grandmother lived in Charlotte Sq. for a few years before dying in 1919. I was in Margate looking for the house and when I got close, I was upset to find so many modern buildings. I felt it was pretty hopeless but in the end, after some research in the local ref. lib ( they were very helpful with a long run of local directories and maps etc.) I found that her house was right next door to the George & Dragon and I suspect it only survived because it was part of the pub block and was/ is owned by the pub chain.
Thank you very much for your help. You have fleshed out the background wonderfully.[ This is for my own interest but would certainly credit you if it should be otherwise.]
Best wishes, Toby.
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You are very welcome. I do enjoy filling in these gaps about Margate.
I have attached two otehr pictures for you. One of your Great Grandmothers house and also one of the Square c.1908.
Anything else Margate wise I can help with, please ask
Suzannah
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You are right with the house. Can you talk me through the 1908 picture? I cannot quite make out the signs.
I have 2 other queries. On a house front, on the north side of the square, appears MPH Co. Does that mean anything to you? Secondly do you have a photo of Emmanuel Church, Victoria Road?
Thanks for your help
Toby.
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The 1908 picture. On the left is the George and Dragon, now Quart in a Pint Pot.
So, its looking to the west side of Charlotte Square which is now gone.
Is the Chapel you require the pre 1881 or after? The Zion Chapel, Lady Huntingdon's Connection, was in Addington Square Margate. The Chapel was built c.1801 by Mr Grove. Caleb Bird being Pastor from 1847-1881.
The original Chapel was demolished in 1882 and now on the site stands my Uncle's house. The right hand side of his house looks over the burial ground and to his left is the old Emmanuel Sunday School which has been there pre 1800. I have pictures of the chapel from engravings and drawings pre demolition. In 1881 a new Zion Chapel was built on land behind the original Chapel, in Victoria Road. This is still here today and was a Plastic Moulders until 2004, when the Church reopened!
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Thanks Suzannah. I can see it now. Interesting to compare the 2 pictures and see what has not changed. Pity it developed into a slum for there is clearly a certain charm about the Square as it was.
The Emmanuel Church which is of interest is where a brother of my grandfather got married in January 1909. The rites were of Lady Huntingdon's Connection. My interest in a picture of the church is that I have a file just for marriage churches / chapels of family so anything you have will be much appreciated.
I can see that you have the same deep interest for Margate that I have for Swindon and your considerable help is much appreciated.
Toby.
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Here you go. We call it the Zion Chapel. Anything else I can help with?
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Thanks Suzannah. That will do very nicely.Best wishes with your researches. Toby.
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hi
i believe in or around 1920s/1930s that maybe a harry and annie roberts were landlady and landlord of the liverpool arms would anyone know how i can find these details out to be sure
many thanks m
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I checked the directory for 1929 and 1936 and no Roberts listed at the Pub.
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hi
thanks for looking , harry and ann married in 1914 so it could of been between 1914 and 1924
many thanks m
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Sadly I have nothing earlier than 1929. Margate library holds Kelly's directories for those years.
Was he Born Harold ro Harry as there is a Harold Roberts in the 1936.
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So another public house in the Charlotte Square area appears to have bitten the dust for The Spread Eagle is boarded up.
Of interest however is the handsome cast iron name plate CHARLOTTE PLACE high up on the wall of the Spread Eagle which would be vulnerable if demolition took place. Probably cast locally, in my view it needs to be preserved perhaps in a local museum or moved to another part of the square. Such small items have a charm which are all too easily lost.
Toby.
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Yes, just after Xmas it closed. I think we should be hopeful that it wouldn;t be pulled down. Most of the pubs round here that have closed have been lucky in the sense they have found new uses.
The First and Last just along the road from the Spread Egale, has been turned into a house or flats and looks quite nice. Not sure what the resident ghost thinks now his barrels, pumps and geral pub items are gone though.
On the right hand side of the pub is Princes Crescent and this too has a cast iron road sign, many made by W Brown of Margate. In cliftonville the newer sign has been placed above the old signs which is far beter than removing or worst, scrapping them.
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Thanks Foad family for that speedy and encouraging response. Let's keep our fingers crossed. With a name to the founders, that must help too.
Toby.
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I've just seen this and I am delighted to see my old house 24 Charlotte Square. I lived there with my grandparents Doug and Ella Adams from 1951-1959/60. I remember the George and Dragon pub and the landlady. Our house was very old and when my grandparents bought it, the garden was not that big but they were assured by the council that the space to the right was to be a green space and not a car park as it turned out. They were able to purchase extra space behind the house as I remember. My bedroom overlooked St.Johns graveyard!
I was interested in the houseshistory. I wasn't sure if it was a bakery originally and what the basement was used for. Thanks. Lois