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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 00:56 BST (UK)

Title: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 00:56 BST (UK)
I'm looking for descendants of Rose Ann Briggs and George Gullidge who married in Adelaide in 1852. Rose Ann is the sister of John and George  Briggs.  There were two other siblings possibly Catherine and James though names not confirmed.


Selina Ann Gullidge dau of Rose Ann and George was born in Adelaide in 1854.

thanks, bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 01:42 BST (UK)
Marriage

GULLIDGE George  30 years  Widower  Father unrecorded.
BRIGGS Rose Anne  15 years  Single  Father unrecorded
12 Jul 1852
At St Mark Penwortham   Ade 10/249

Birth
GULLIDGE Selina Ann
1 Apr 1854
Father George GULLIDGE   Mother: Rose Ann [Not recorded]
Place not recorded   Ade 4/304

I can't see any further records for any of the above in South Australia ie marriage for Selina or deaths for George or Rose Ann.

Do you want a search for Rose's siblings ie possible marriages but  may be difficult as Rosa's father's name does not appear on her marriage reg in 1852.

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1848Poictiers.htm
There is a John BRIGGS, wife and five children listed arriving in 1848.  Unfortunately no names for children.

Will have a look in the Biographical Index of SA for you.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 02 June 09 01:44 BST (UK)
There is a marriage for James Briggs

James Briggs aged 35 father John Briggs married Mary McCANN aged 34 father Arthur McCann at Mr. Etheridges Eating house Port Lincoln on 4/3/1864
book 57 page 202


Taking a punt  because there are marriages  for John and George which show the fathers name as John :)
Jenn
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 01:56 BST (UK)
No information in BISA for either BRIGGS or GULLIDGE that appears relevant.

However in the NSW indexes

Birth
12864/1871     
GULLIDGE  Robert R    No father recorded  Mother Selina         
District Menindie

Marriage
2630/1872     
GALLOWAY  Thomas   
GULLIDGE  Selina
District Menindie 

Death
14613/1902     
GALLOWAY Selina
Father George Mother Rosanne     
District Menindie

Cando

Edit to add death reg.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:01 BST (UK)
Hi Thanks for your speedy reply and info.
The john Briggs, wife and five children are mine.  i know that John, George and Rose Ann were definitely 3 of that 5. I had thought that a Catherine Margaret Briggs who married William SINCLAIR  on 1848-05-14 in SA might have been mine but the date is after the arrival of the Poictiers.
The family were in Winwick in 1841 but were born in Northamptonshire/Leicestershire/Huntingdonshire.

They settled in Mintaro SA John senior died in adelaide in 1888, John jnr died in adelaide in 1900.  George settled in NSW and died 1914.

I'm having trouble finding the other siblings and had hoped that Rose Ann's descendants might catch up.
I had a pm from a descendant of Rose Ann several years ago but they never got back to me.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:05 BST (UK)
There are eight births to Selina and Thomas GALLOWAY on
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Have you traced all of them?

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:11 BST (UK)
Hi Cando and Jen

i'm sort of claiming that James as mine but don't have any proof yet :)
That Menindie Gullidge is the right one. That Selina went on to marry Thomas Galloway.

I've been trying to work out how i can sort out what the names of the other two siblings of John ,George and Rose Ann.

There were a number of John Briggs around in SA. The Mintaro family are definitely mine.  John senior was married at least two times.  He came here with his second wife Ann Butler.  After her death he may have married a "Slyvia" as there is mention of here in a book about the Catholic church in Mintaro. Not much mention of John and none of Ann as they were not Catholic.  Theirchildren married Catholics
Bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:19 BST (UK)
There are some GALLOWAY burial records in the Broken Hill cemetery.  A George Gullidge GALLOWAY and Thomas Gullidge GALLOWAY....sons of Selina?
http://www.brokenhill.net.au/Cem.php

Very few GULLIDGE listings on whitepages.  May be worth sending a letter or two.
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/initResSearch.do

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:28 BST (UK)
The family were in Winwick in 1841 but were born in Northamptonshire/Leicestershire/Huntingdonshire. bertolli22

I have had a quick look on the 1841 census but am unable to locate the family....not unusual for me ;)   Do you have the census reference for them?  Just wondering how many chn are named.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:29 BST (UK)
Good idea Cando, thanks.
I'll write today.
ciao bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:34 BST (UK)
I'll check out the ref numbers and get back.  Winwick is tricky because it is in two counties -Huntingdonshire and Northamptonshire.

John & Ann with chn John, Catherine and Rosannah and Burrows Butler were in one place  and George aged 11 was working as a servant in another
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 June 09 02:43 BST (UK)
That's OK..no need...you have four of the five names.  Would have been wonderful if their names had been in The South Australian Register  from which the online passenger records were compiled. 

Cando

Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Tuesday 02 June 09 03:03 BST (UK)
John, Ann & children plus Burrows Butler (may be Ann's father). Robert Briggs publican +Ann and Elizabeth may also be family

Class: HO107; Piece 451; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Winwick; County: Huntingdonshire; Enumeration District: 17; Folio: 6; Page: 3; Line: 22; GSU roll: 288837.

George:
Class: HO107; Piece 808; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Winwick; County: Northamptonshire; Enumeration District: 17; Folio: 3; Page: 3; Line: 9; GSU roll: 438880.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 03:05 BST (UK)
Thank you for the census regs.

I wonder if there were any further BRIGGS births or even deaths of children prior to emigration. Catherine has not been found in the SA records so perhaps she may have died and perhaps the 5 children included a child born between the census and emigration to SA.

I am now wondering what further help you require?  Do you wish to follow the GALLOWAY line in NSW or the BRIGGS in SA?

 You initially requested help with descendants of Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE and the only child seems to be Selina.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 04:52 BST (UK)
Hi cando
Thanks for your help.  I have spent many hours trying to trace these Briggs.  There are many Briggs in SA but I haven't been able to find any from the same family who are interested in family history. SA is also an expensive place to buy BDM certs -and I've bought many.
I thought that if this time I concentrated on one child at a time I may have more luck.
I sent the person who pm'd me sometime back re Rose Ann Briggs quite a bit of info about the Briggs and was hoping that they might reciprocate but no luck even though they were descendants.
I have sent letters to Gullidge and Galloway families as suggested and am crossing my fingers. 
I'm continuing to try to trace the Briggs but should really post another topic sometime as you and Jen have kindly answered this question.
Thanks heaps
 bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 07:30 BST (UK)
Isn't it disappointing when you are kind enough to give information and receive nothing in return.  Fortunately my family is very small and none seem all that interested, so I just plod along. ;D

I think we could press on with the BRIGGS on this thread and there is already quite a bit of info here ie if you want to.

The South Australian Genealogy & Heraldry Society on Unley Road, now offer a transcription service $15 per cert, and the transcription is emailed to you.  There is a request form on their website
http://www.saghs.org.au/research.htm#transcription

I think we all know the feeling of purchasing an incorrect cert :( :( :'( :'(

Cheers
Cando 


Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 09:17 BST (UK)
Hi Cando
I'd love to keep on with the Briggs if that's ok. I just didn't want to be greedy with requests.  thanks heaps
bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 09:27 BST (UK)
OK....how can we help with the BRIGGS line?

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 11:53 BST (UK)
I guess working out the names of the 5 children who were on the Poictiers could maybe turn up other people who know something about the family.  I have recently written to all of the Briggs who live in the Mintaro/Wakefield area on the off chance that they are from the same family.
 The John Briggs snr who came on the Poictiers died in Parkside in 1888, I've applied to get a copy of his records.

I bought a book about the history of the Catholic church in Mintaro as sons John and George married in the Catholic church there. Some of the family married Catholics and converted.  John Briggs snr and his wife Ann Butler were not Catholic.  There is nothing about John or Ann in the book apart from the fact that John, wife and children arrived.  There is quite a bit about son John (d 1900) because he and his wife Ann Campbell (d1912) had 11 children and a four of the daughters were nuns in the Mercy Sisters convent in Adelaide.

There is an old heritage house in Mintaro (more like a tiny old stone shed) "This pug or earth walled cottage is possibly one of the earliest surviving structures in Mintaro. It served as home to the builder, James Briggs and his seven children."
http://www.aussieheritage.com.au/listings2/sa/Mintaro/BriggsCottageRuins/9483

Seeing that they are Briggs in Mintaro they may be related but maybe not.  I've been writing to the National Trust chasing up info.
When i checked ages ago i couldn't find births for 7 children with James as father.

Also the James that Jen found was married in Port Lincoln and from memory he died there as well.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 12:07 BST (UK)
Births to John BRIGGS and Ann CAMPBELL

BRIGGS Mary Ann
6 Jan 1858   Mintaro   Gil 13/62

BRIGGS Elizabeth
5 Aug 1859      Wakefield     Cla 15/489

BRIGGS Catharine
5 Oct 1860   Mintaro   Cla 21/245

BRIGGS Thomasina
29 Jul 1862   Mintaro   Cla 25/662

BRIGGS Anne Maria
27 Feb 1864   Bungaree Run   Cla 30/286

BRIGGS John Manuel
27 Jul 1865-07-27   Anama   Cla 37/125
 
BRIGGS James
6 Oct 1866   Mintaro    Cla 48/175

BRIGGS Rose Ann
23 Oct 1868   Mintaro  Cla 68/300

BRIGGS Rose Alice
19 Nov 1869 Mintaro  Cla 78/262

BRIGGS Sarah Juliana
14 Jun 1871   Mintaro   Cla 95/297

BRIGGS Selina May
12 Jun 1878    Mintaro    Cla 202/362

Like you, I can't see any births with James as father in the SA records.

In SA pre1875 Catholic and Scottish births are often not registered.
http://www.jaunay.com/newsletter/newsletter7.html

Perhaps another parish records search is needed.

Will press on.

Cheers
Cando


Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 12:50 BST (UK)
Thanks heaps.
That will keep me busy  ;D
I'll follow up with the Srs of Mercy to see if i can find something.
ciao Bertoli.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 12:56 BST (UK)
It appears that George may have married twice...the ages at both marriages make dob 1832/3.

BRIGGS George  25 years  Status not known  Father John BRIGGS
MCMANNS Ellen  21 years  Status not known  Father Thomas McMANNS
23 Nov 1857
Catholic Chapel Mintaro   Cla 32/375

BRIGGS George  32 years  Status not known  Father John BRIGGS
DUNNING Elizabeth  22 years  Status Single  Father William DUNNING
21 Sep 1865
Res of James Dews, Hoyle Plains   Cla 63/197

What do you think?

Cando

Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:20 BST (UK)
Found these in NSW so it looks as thought there was only one marriage.  Ellen's death in NSW shows father Thomas, same as marriage cert.

Death
8580/1903     
BRIGGS      Ellen     
Father Thomas Mother Bridget     
District  Young


Births to this couple

BRIGGS Rose Anne
5 Sep 1858
Father George BRIGGS  Mother Ellen MCMANUS
Mintaro    Gil 14/419

Births in NSW with father George and mother Ellen.
5586/1861     
BRIGGS  George       
District Binalong
        
15438/1863    
BRIGGS    John   
District Young

6252/1866    
BRIGGS    Mary E
District Young.
         
7277/1869    
BRIGGS    Valentine G   
District Young

20185/1872    
BRIGGS William H    
District Young

22954/1876    
BRIGGS  Sydney William   
District Young.

A few deaths
9414/1911     
BRIGGS  William
Father George Mother Ellen
District Burwood     

9917/1879    
BRIGGS    George V   
Father George Mother Ellen
District Young

2779/1862    
BRIGGS George    
Father George  Mother Ellen
District Binalong

7590/1873    
BRIGGS    William H
Father George Mother Ellen
District Young

11027/1929    
BRIGGS    Sidney W
Father George Mother Ellen
District Young

31236/1942    
BRIGGS    John
Father George Mother Ellen
District Young

31244/1942     
PERRIN  Rose Ann     
Father George Mother Ellen
District Young


Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:27 BST (UK)
George Briggs and Ellen McManns -McManus - are mine, it's her photo that i have.  I have that BDM cert.  I have doubts about her age though - I think that she put it up to get married -she always told family that she was 16 when she married.  Ellen was illiterate but managed to get her name right for the marriage cert. There is a transcription error with the name.

Are there often transcription errors with dates?  I was wondering if it could be possible that the date is wrong:
SINCLAIR William married BRIGGS Catharine on 1848-05-14
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:29 BST (UK)
Thanks cando
They are mine. The Briggs believed in big families  :D
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:35 BST (UK)
I have noticed this entry on the cemetery index at
http://www.saghs.org.au/graves.htm

Surname: BRIGGS
Given name(s): Catherine
Source date: 1854

This death is not in the death indexes.

You can request this information for a small fee.  The request form is on the website.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:37 BST (UK)
Thanks so much.  I will do that straight away.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:45 BST (UK)
George Briggs and Ellen McManns -McManus - are mine, it's her photo that i have.  I have that BDM cert.  I have doubts about her age though - I think that she put it up to get married -she always told family that she was 16 when she married.  Ellen was illiterate but managed to get her name right for the marriage cert. There is a transcription error with the name.

Are there often transcription errors with dates?  I was wondering if it could be possible that the date is wrong:
SINCLAIR William married BRIGGS Catharine on 1848-05-14

Oh trust me not to notice.  You are lucky to have her photo.  I would love some more photos of my ancestors especially those who emigrated to Aus.

You could ask for the date to be checked by SAGHS.  They would probably charge a fee however.  The marriage was at Encounter Bay at the home of Mr Newland.  Long way from Mintaro in those days.  Lots of transcription errors with names as there was often illiteracy and accents for the registrars to deal with.  Oh the eyes are getting heavy...better leave this for tonight.  Will have another search for you tomorrow in the records in SA.  If you find the name of the cemetery for Catherine, post it as there are lots of cemetery records online, and many have photos of headstones as well.

Lots of chatters to help and they may have more ideas and sources to give you.

Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:49 BST (UK)
The Catherine in the SAGS cemetery index is more likely.  I'll see what they say.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:54 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for your help. I was fed up with this family and am inspired to pick up the research again :)
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 June 09 13:59 BST (UK)
This shipping record is self explanatory.

BRIGGS Catherine arrived 1847-09-25 on Mariner from London via Plymouth [Source:4,6,20(W SINCLAIR)]

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Friday 05 June 09 13:07 BST (UK)
Have sent off to SAGHS for the Catherine Briggs cemetery index record.  When I phoned, the very helpful SAGHS volunteer  said that they hold early Parkside records, so have requested records for John Briggs as well.  Will post relevant info when I receive it.
Thanks for your help
bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Housie on Tuesday 05 October 10 10:45 BST (UK)
Hi
I've only just discovered this site. I am the great granddaughter of Mary Ellen Briggs. She was the sister of Rose and also had 5 brothers some of whom died in infancy. I was interested to see the photo of Ellen McManus. My research shows that George Briggs 'Came to Australia, aged, 16, in the French ship ‘Poiteres’ and after a journey of 18 months settled in Adelaide. Arrived 13/11/1848. In about 1855 he went to the gold rush in Maryborough, Victoria. In company with two other men (including Brown who later lived in Adelong) discovered a new lead of gold called the Adelaide Lead. they were supposed to have been paid a reward of two thousand pounds. George and Ellen travelled to Young from Adelaide by bullock waggon, driving a herd of cattle, when gold was discovered in 1859. Were in Lambing Flats (Young) at the time of the riots between the miners and the Chinese. Acquired land in Moppity Road, Young and were the original owners of a property called ‘Verona’ (which they later sold to the first Doctor who came to Young, Dr. Temple).' I don't know who else in the family besides his brother Hugh was on the ship. I haven't gotten that far. I know that George and Ellen were married in Mintaro, SA, in 1857.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Housie on Tuesday 05 October 10 11:43 BST (UK)
Another interesting thing I have in my notes was that George's brother, Hugh, had resided in Adelaide around 1845 and was made George's guardian when he arrived in Australia.
Not sure what that tells me!
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: bertoli22 on Wednesday 06 October 10 00:34 BST (UK)
Hi housie
I have done heaps of research on this family and am happy to share.  I haven't done much for quite a while as I've had major commitments but am still interested and should be able to pick it up again in a few months.  I've sent you a pm. ciao bertoli
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Zel on Friday 17 December 10 12:47 GMT (UK)
Hello This is my first entry to the chat line but I have read your entries previously for Catherine Briggs b 1827 Winwrick , I beleive I can add some light to your mystery. Catherine gave birth to a Henry Ruddifer Briggs in 1845 in Winwrick. She arrived in SA on the Mariner in  1847. Married William Sinclair in May 1848  Son William John born 1949 Dau Agnes Deceased. It is assumed she then married John Martin ( F. Moses Martin M. Ann Butler )1863 Inglewood Vict. Son James Martin born all three previous births are noted on this birth certificate. Twins Mary Anne & George b 1867 then dau. Annie 1870. John Martin is shown on 1901 census with his son George living at Pretty Pines Urana where he dies the same year. I have not found mention of Catherine after the births.
I hope this helps. I haven't done any research for many years.
Zel
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: davies51 on Sunday 22 July 12 07:08 BST (UK)
Re Briggs (have only just found this sight!!)
John & Ann Briggs came to Australia and settled in Mintaro. I think Anne may have had children (2?) before marrying john Briggs.
All John and Anne's children were born in England. I think there were 5 but can only find 4
John Briggs sen died at Parkside. His wife Anne died at Mintaro.  The Syliva mentioned in the book is an error as far as I can find out and is in fact one of his children

Catherine - had a son Henry - in England - What became of him???? She then married William Sinclair at Encounter Bay (they had 1 child - he moved to Victoria and had a large family) She may have then married John Martin - I can find no record of her death.

George Briggs married Ellen McManus (at age 25 not 21 as is in the Mintaro book.) They moved to Young in NSW with their eldested daughter Rose Ann. Many of George's decendants are still in the Young area.

John Briggs married Ann Campbell and I note someone has listed all the children. Mary Ann was the only one to marry at age 40 ( I am her eldest great grandchild)

Rose Ann married George Gullidge and had 1 child Selina Anne married Galloway and lived on Black Gate Station. She is buried on the station and her decendants are still there.  I can not find her death record.

Does anyone have any information going back to John briggs in England or his wife Anne Burrows????

The 5th Briggs child - was it a boy or a girl, maybe named Elisabeth????

Any help would be great
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: davies51 on Monday 23 July 12 12:52 BST (UK)
Following up on Catherine Briggs - Do you know what became of Henry.  Did she have a sister Elizabeth.  I know the history of George, John ( my great great grandfather) and Rose Anne or Rosannah?
Appreciate any help in this area.
Monica
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Zel on Monday 23 July 12 22:45 BST (UK)
Hello Davies 51
Catherine's son Henry Ruddifer Briggs b 1845 Winwick Huntingdonshire is still a mystery to me so I can't help you with that one.
Catherine died on the 23 August 1910 under the name of Sinclair which has posed another mystery, her children are listed as Margaret A age 57William about 50 James 46 George & Mary A Twins 43 Annie 40               
1 male deceased
1 female deceased
On the birth certificates of James Martin b  25 October 1864 Catherine had listed previous children as Henry Redford Sinclair 19 years William John Sinclair aged 15 years and Agnes Sinclair deceased these were then crossed out. There has never been a mention of  Margaret A.
The only Margaret Ann I have found was born to Annie Martin on 28  September 1888 which would have made her 22 at the time of her grandmothers death.
As for the marriage of Catherine to John Martin I don't believe there was one even though on the birth certificates it mentions Inglewood 1853.
Mary Ann is also known as Mrs Banfield and Annie is Mrs Locke.
I hope this helps. I first posted my queries of Catherine's death on this site and was kindly given the information which I was most appreciative so it is nice to return the kindness to someone else.
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: davies51 on Thursday 26 July 12 06:14 BST (UK)
Thankyou Zel,
That was very helpful. bot sure of your Briggs connection but the following may be helpful.
Margaret Ann was the daughter of William Sinclair and his first wife Helen Anderson (1827 - ??) Margaret was born in 1853 in Gellong, Victoria. In 1868 she married Edward D Scott in Wagga Wagga NSW.

A point of interest is, I have Catherine & William marrying in the home of Mr Newland of Encounter Bay, Victor Harbour. (I think he may have been the Reverend Newland.)  He was friend with E Waymouth. (E Waymouth built the Newland Congregational church in Victor Harbour) E Waymouth came to Australia on the Poictier, Nov 1848, the same boat that Catherine Briggs Parents and siblings arrived on!

Thanks again for you help
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Zel on Thursday 26 July 12 08:20 BST (UK)
Thank You
Your hint about Margaret Ann has really piqued my curiosity I have Catherine marrying William in Adelaide in May 1848 and their son William being born in the December 1848 but if Margaret Ann was not born until 1853 to William's first wife then William sen would be a bigamist.

I have my doubts about this so will need to find the correct dates for Helen's death and the correct date for Margaret Ann's birth, this is a real mystery.

Also in one of your messages you were wondering what happened to Catherine's son Henry, on Catherine's death certificate it states one son is deceased, this may be him as I have all others accounted for that is unless I have missed one.

I only have William Sinclair b 1848 James Martin b 1864 and George Martin b 1867 ( George was a twin) Catherine would have been my G G Grandmother on my fathers side.
Many Thanks for you help
Margaret
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: axecalibre on Thursday 26 July 12 10:13 BST (UK)
On BMD there is a Henry Riddiford Briggs b June quarter, Oundle, 1845 Vol15, page 333. Sorry cannot find death for Henry Briggs, Oundle, though there could be others.

Have searched census returns and no sign of Henry Briggs that fits the bill.

Riddiford is a very unusual name.  In 1841 census there were two Riddiford families, one in Cambridge and a Henry Riddoford b 1826, in Huntingdon, maybe Catherine was a servant.....  Flights of fantasy!!
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Zel on Friday 27 July 12 01:51 BST (UK)
Hello
The Henry referred to was born in Winwick  Huntingdonshire  in 1845 and named  Henry Ruddifer Briggs, yes I do believe Catherine may have been a servant even though I have not really researched that line.

When I was looking through the church registers  I do remember there were quiet a  few surnames of Ruddifer also listed around the same time period

Thanks for you input every small piece we can add to our family research puzzle is a great benefit.
 :)
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Helmore S on Saturday 18 August 12 12:52 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I have been reading with interest your chat about the Briggs family. I know it is no help with your research but I am the current owner of the Briggs Cottage ruin in Mintaro. I purchased the property in 2000 and have done some work to stabilise and restore the structure. Unfortunately the only historic information I have has already been referenced in earlier posts
Cheers
Stuart
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: davies51 on Sunday 19 August 12 01:32 BST (UK)
Hi Stuart,
I read this with interest.  The last time I saw the place was in the 1980's - enough said!!!!! I may come calling one day as I only live about 60Km away, was in Clare last week and we did consider driving home through Mintaro. I am guesssing you are in the last house they had, I think it was need the old police station, from memory? Some records show Briggs living there until 1900 but the family moved to Adelaide it the 1880,s John Brigg,s  senior died in 1888 and his son John Briggs (both had wivies named Ann!!) became the caretaker at the Stock Exchange in Pirie St.
I have not be able to find many records of John Briggs Sn, most appear to be of his son John (my great great grandfather)
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Jules0912 on Wednesday 08 November 17 05:45 GMT (UK)
Hi All

I have only recently discovered this site, and the thread of Catherine Sinclair nee Briggs.  Catherine & William are my 3rd GG Parents from my father's line (Sinclair). 

William and Catherine had several children, who in turn had fairly large families, settling in and around the Bendigo area Victoria.  There are plenty of cemetery index references in Victoria. 

Can anyone shed any light on the death of William Sinclair (B. Circa 1812?). Various family tree records have 1866 then later in the 1880s. I can find no reference to any marriage between Catherine and John Martin, with Catherine Sinclair listed as the mother of James, and Catherine Briggs listed for other children.  I believe Catherine died in Yass, NSW, and was buried there. She is recorded as Catherine Margaret Sinclair. 

I would appreciate any information  on Catherine and more particularly, the Sinclair line if anyone has anything.  Happy to share whatever information I have gained also.

Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: judb on Wednesday 08 November 17 07:31 GMT (UK)
You may already have this - there is, apparently, a headstone for Catherine at the Yass cemetery which has been transcribed as follows:
Sinclair Catherine died 23.8.1910 aged 82 years. Erected by Mr and Mrs G Martin, Mr and Mrs G Locke and Mrs R Banfield.
Sinclair Catherine died 23.8.1910 aged 82 years. Erected by son and daughter Mr and Mrs G Martin. Also Mrs Banfield.

Transcription from this site:
http://members.webone.com.au/~sgrieves/cemeteries_australia.htm#Sainsbury

These are the names of her married daughters and her son as given in previous posts.

Judith

Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Jules0912 on Wednesday 14 November 18 04:03 GMT (UK)
Hi
Catherine Briggs married William Sinclair in Encounter Bay (near Victor Harbour) in May 1848. Her parents and siblings (and possibly her son, William Briggs) arrived on the Poictiers in Nov 1848, just ahead of the birth of her second son (and my ancestor), William John Sinclair.  William and Catherine moved to Echuca in Victora and had 2 more children, daughters Margaret and Anges, the latter killed in an accident aged 3 or 4.  Catherine and William appear to have gone their separate ways (not sure why???) with Catherine entering into a relationship with John Martin, having more children with him.  She is buried in Yass, NSW but under the name of Catherine Sinclair.  I have not been able to find any marriage certificate for Catherine and John Martin, assuming that no formal divorce  or death of William John occured.  Would love any information that you could share on the  Briggs family though.

Jules0912
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: judb on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:18 GMT (UK)
Trove has a Return Thanks notice published in the Yass Courier, 30 August, 1910, from "Mrs A Banfield and family" for expressions of sympathy tendered to them on the death of Mrs Sinclair
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246631288
An earlier post by Zel gives this information:
Mary Ann is also known as Mrs Banfield

As I said in the previous post Catherine is buried at Yass and it is the town where her death was registered.

There are two entries in the NSW BMD index, both with the same reg no

11858/1910
Catherine SINCLAIR  father: JOHN, 82 YRS,  YASS, registered YASS
Catherine  SINCLAIR, father: JOHN, WIFE OF WILLIAM SINCLAIR, registered YASS

Judith

Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: Jules0912 on Wednesday 14 November 18 07:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks Judith

The registration in NSW BDM certainly applies to Catherine Sinclair (nee Briggs). The John is of course her father, John Briggs who died in Mintaro, SA. 

i have a Henry John Sinclair in my family tree (Ancestry) who was born around 1845 /45 in Oundle, near Winwick in Northampton, UK.  The listing is for a Henry Ruddifer Briggs, with Catherine as the mother, no father listed.  Informant was John Briggs, Grandfather (of Henry).

I cannot find any further record of Henry, other than to assume that he became Henry John Sinclair.  The death certificate for same lists mother as Catherine Briggs and William Sinclair as the father, yet Henry was born prior to both William and Catherine meeting (one assumes since William hailed from Larkshire, Scotland).  Do you have any information on this Henry to confirm that he is one and the same?  I think in 1848 after William and Catherine were married but before their son William John was born, that Henry simply became known as Henry Sinclair.  Don't think colonial records were that specific. 

Can I ask if you are related through Catherine?  If so, we are distant relatives!

Julie
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 November 18 09:02 GMT (UK)
 :)  From the NSW Electoral Roll of 1902 (ie the first to include females)

NSW ER 1902 WERRIWA, polling at Yass
May Ann BANFIELD, of Yass Junction, domestic duties
Richard BANFIELD, of Yass Junction, fettler


In that era, Werriwa covered a very large area:
 :)  to the north West ... Cook's Hill 
 :)  to the north ... Porters Retreat
 :)  to the east ... Marulan
 :)  to the south east ... Larbert
 :)  to the south ... south of Bungendore
 :)  to the south west ... Goodradigbee district

JM  PS Werriwa refers to Lake George  :)
Title: Re: Rose Ann BRIGGS and George GULLIDGE
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 November 18 09:11 GMT (UK)
Sands Directories 1909
NSW Country
Mrs A BANFIELD,  Royal Hotel, Yass.


JM