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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) => Topic started by: Briannicus on Friday 05 June 09 08:43 BST (UK)
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Dear all,
I found this extraordinarily involved family tree in some relatives' papers and thought it might be useful to others.
I also hope someone might be able to connect with me and sort out some of the more illegible surnames that I have so far had to guess at.
I also have some additional information on the reverse
Anyway, hope it helps someone.
Regards,
Brian
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Hi Brian
What a find! If you want to add some dates and places, a number of these early lines show on IGI as submitted entries for the children. If you do a parent search on IGI, the information seems to match what you have on the tree but includes birth/christening dates.
Monica :)
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hi brian :)
what a wonderful discovery 8)
the IGI has george smith & janet turnbull married 19th dec 1762(m117098)
haddington east lothian
children(most are submitted entries)all haddington east lothian
john smith birth 25th feb 1760
mary smith birth 5th june 1762
james smith baptised 23rd jan 1764
george smith baptised 23rd jan 1764
john smith baptised 2nd march 1766
mary smith baptised 12th june 1768
cornelius smith birth 7th may 1770
robert smith birth 3rd april 1780
ev
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SP has catherine smith(other surname finlayson) death 1860 haddington
east lothian but age not recorded
looking at census info. 1841 & 1851(freeCEN) i think she would have been
about 77 when she died
if born c1783 and married 1809 then i think she would have been married
to cornelius smith(b. 1770) son of george smith and janet turnbull
(could be wrong of course)
1841 court st haddington east lothian(all born east lothian)
catherine smith 60 independant
catherine smith 30
james smith 20 tailor
john smith 20 shoemaker
robert smith 15 saddler apprentice
ev
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igi has -
katherine finlayson baptised 18th feb 1781 haddington east lothian
parents mungo finlayson and katherine millar(IGI - C117097)
and sisters
mary finlayson baptised 15th aug 1779 haddington
janet finlayson baptised 14th july 1794 haddington
mungo finlayson & katherine millar marriage 24th july 1774 haddington
(M117098)
would really need catherine smith(nee finlayson) death certificate(1860) to
prove if any of this relates to the tree
ev
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john smith married jessie young 28/11/1856 haddington east lothian
children all born haddington
elizabeth richardson smith 7th feb 1858
john smith 14th aug 1859
george smith 1st nov 1861
1881
high st haddington(all born haddington)
john smith 60 shoemaker
jessie smith 60
john smith 21 accountants clerk
george smith 19 bank clerk
elizabeth r smith 23
there is a marriage of john smith to agnes hume 1901 midlothian :-\
ev
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hi all :)
think the second line(from top) of tree shows brothers george(married to
helen millar) and cornelius smith(married to cath finlayson)
their children shown on 3rd line split with blue line
so -
children of george smith(b. 1764) & helen millar(b. c1765)-
janet smith(b. 1806)
cath smith(b. 1793)
cornelius(b. 1802)
james(b. c1800)
george(b. 1795)
children of cornelius smith(b. 1770) & catherine finlayson(b. 1781?)-
cath(b. 1809)
janet(b. 1811)
margt(b. 1813)
helen(b. 1815)
james(?)(b. 1819)
john(b. 1821)
robert(b. 1823)
additional children not on tree george(b. 1817) & ann(b. 1825)
ev
ps all of this would need to be proved
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children of george smith & helen millar-
janet smith married to james bruce 20th dec 1833 dunbar east lothian
cath smith married to james finlayson 14th july 1820 dunbar east lothian
cornelius smith married to helen smith 31st march 1844 haddington e.lothian
james smith unmarried 1861 census
george smith/helen runciman can't see marriage however there is a george
smith with wife helen in 1841 with sons george and daniel
ev
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Hello everyone,
I've just come home and logged on. I'm overwhelmed.
Thank you so much for the responses. I'm going to have to sit down and work through them and copy them into my file and see what's what.
I'll probably get back to you all with a question or two.
Thanks again,
Brian
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children of cornelius smith and catherine finlayson-
cath. smith unmarried on 1881 census(with sister janet)
janet smith married james cathie 18th march 1864 edinburgh
1881 62 high st dunbar haddington
james cathie 64 slater b. haddington
janet cathie 67 wife b. haddington
jane m cathie 21 dau. b. haddington
william f cowan 40 son in law slater b. spott haddington
catherine smith 69 sister in law formerly cook b. haddington
margaret smith married joseph falconer 8th dec 1843 edinburgh(? maybe)
helen smith married cornelius smith 31st march 1844 haddington(cousins ?)
james smith married margaret edgar(?) son cornelius b. c1850(?)
john smith married jessie young - see previous post
robert smith - alive 1841
can't find george smith(b. 1817) or ann smith(b. 1825)
ev
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Hi
I have just come across your fabulous family tree, and I am delighted because I am descended from Cornelius Smith and Catherine Finlayson, who were my 4xG Grandparents.
I was messing around and Googled "Cornelius Smith Haddington" and up it popped!
I am descended from their son John Smith (born 1821, Haddington) and Jessie Young (born c1821), via their daughter Euphemia Smith. She does not appear on your tree, and I have not found her birth record but I have her marriage record to Gavin Lindores which lists her parents names, and she was 19 in 1871.
You mentioned that there was some more information on the reverse side - do you think there might be something of interest to me?
Did you know that there are Pedigree Resource Files on IGI for Cornelius Smith born 1770 which go right back to the 1500s? Of course they would need to be verified.
Looking forward to hear soon,
Regards
Avril
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Hi Avril,
I've just found Euphemia on the IGI, though I suspect he birth date there is incorrect.
I entered just her parents and she came up at the bottom of the list.
It has her as born ABOUT 1852, but her parents didn't marry utnil 1856, and at present, I have their first child, Elizabeth Richardson Smith, as born 1858, so I would suspect that her d.o.b. might well be 1856 or 57, and not 52. Or a younger child with an even later date. I have no idea why they wrote 'about 1852'.
Sorry, also forgot to tell you that I'm descended from Cornelius and Katherine's son, Robert, who is my GG grandfather. He married Sarah Eliza Penniston in 1863, and there is more to twll.
Brian
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From the details that Ev found previously on the family, this looks to be John and Jessie in 1861:
John Smith 40, Mastor Boot Maker Emp 6 Men
Jessie Smith 40
Elisabeth Smith 3
John Smith 1
Cathrine Smith 51, visitor
Address: South Side High St
No sign of Euphemia in the household for 1861.
Monica
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Thank you for that Monica.
As I have John Smith marrying Jessie Young on Nov 28 1856, I'm now wondering if Euphemia wasn't, in fact born 1852, but as an illegitimate child, and was possibly being reared by an elder sibling of John, such as the Catherine you mention below, who is John's eldest sister, born 1809.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Could be a possibility Brian.
Avril (welcome to RootsChat by the way :)), what is the occupation for Euphemia's father John on her marriage cert to Gavin Lindores. She looks to have been born in Dunbar from the censuses, as you have, c. 1852.
There is a possible entry for a Euphemia, but this may indicate a separate family for her. From 1861:
Janet Young 39, farm servant b. N Berwick, Haddingtonshire
Fanny Young 16, farm servant b. England, Northamptonshire
Euphemia Smith 8, b. Dunbar
John Smith 7, b. Dunbar
Address: Lawhead Develling Houses, Whitekirk and Tynninghame, East Lothian
Can't see anything else that would fit at the moment under either Young or Smith.
Monica
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Hi All,
What a great find, where is "Hume24", I see an Agnes Hume about halfway, just at the seam, and is based in "Hume24's" patch, Dunbar, East Lothian. I will send him a PM.
Tom
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Hi just joined this site. I have an old copy of the family tree shown, same layout different handwriting. My husband is descended from Cornelius Smith and Catherine Finlayson and so I have quite a bit of information on the families. I would try and answer any queries that you might have. I also have information about Robert Smith re St. Kitts but I will try and access that under Robert Smith of Haddington.
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Hi Tom and all,
Thanks for the alert, Tom - I always like to see the Hume name mentioned around the area. ;D
Unfortunately though it doesn't seem Agnes is one of "mine"! I had a look at a few certificates pertaining to this family and her line of Humes are from Roxburghshire. My own are all EL, travelling up from Coldingham and surrounding bits in the early 1800s.
I do have a Hume marrying into the (or a!) Smith family. Jane Hume (half-sister of my 3x great- grandmother) married John Smith in Haddington in 1846. Both their fathers witnessed the marriage; John's father being James Smith, an ag. lab shown in the 1851 census as being born in Morris, Angus. I did try and find John and Jane's descendants but with such a difficult name (and quite an early death for Jane in 1861) I did find it very difficult. This may spur me on to try again! :)
hume
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While we're on this subject, does anyone know any more about Mungo Finlayson, brewer of Haddington?
Baptised Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, May 14 1742 according to the IGI.
And his father John, farmer and brewer in Athelstaneford, E. Lothian
I believe Mungo married Catherine Millar (Katherine Miller) and had the Catherine Finlayson who married Cornelius Smith.
Brian
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Hi Brian, On an old list of names and dates there is a Mungo Finlayson. He died on the 22nd July, 1808. There is also a Hugh Finlayson died 17th Dec. 1817 and a William Finlayson died 20th April 180? could be 1803 or even 1809. This date is difficult to make out.
Other Finlaysons on the list- Cornelius Smith and Catherine Finlayson married 4th Feb. 1809
James Finlayson and Catherine Smith married 14 :)th July 1820. You may have this already.
Mirren
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Thanks for that, Mirren.
Had some of it but not all. Sounds as if (though can't be certain) Mungo, Hugh and William may have been brothers.
Brian
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Hi Mirrin
That old family tree is fantastic.
Do you have any information about Euphemia Smith, daughter of John Smith and Jessie Young? John Smith was one of the sons of Cornelius Smith and Catherine Finlayson, my ancestors. IGI says she was born c1852, which matches the age given on her marriage record, but I cannot find her birth record at all.
Regards
Avril
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Hi Avril, Sorry to say that I do not have any record of Euphemia Smith. Best of luck in your research.
Regards Moira
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Hi Avril, Do you know that John Smith and Jessie Young are buried with two of their children in St Mary's Church graveyard in Haddington. The children - Elizabeth and George. Plot H61 I also have a note of a son John, but again no Euphemia.
Regards Mirrin
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Hi Mirrin,
Thanks, I did not know that. Do you know if there is a headstone? I may try to visit the churchyard at Haddington next time I am in that area. In May this year we visited the churchyards at Innerwick and Oldhamstocks looking for Lindores ancestors but althugh there were some headstones with the right surname I don't think they were my ancestors.
I will keep trying to find Euphemia Smith. She definitely has John Smith and Jessie Young as parents on her marriage record, and her age was given as 19 in 1871, so the birth year 1852 would seem to be right, as listed on IGI. I suspect that she is the child on the 1861 census, but we may never know.
Regards
Avril
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Hi Avril
Trying to help here :) From what you have said, you have seen Euphemia and Gavin's 1871 marriage cert. Her parents do show as John Smith and Jessie Young, however, her father John shows as a labourer and already deceased at the time of the marriage in early 1871.
The John Smith from Haddington, discussed here, was a bootmaker by trade and still alive with wife Elizabeth a little after the marriage of Euphemia in 1871:
John Smith 50, boot maker b. Haddington
Jessie Smith 50, b. Haddington
Elizabeth Smith 13
John Smith 71, son - probably 11 rather than 71!
George Smith 9
Address: High Street, Haddinton
It looks like there were two couples with the same names in the general area, not uncommon. It also explains why you are finding no reference to Euphemia as part of this Haddington family.
Euphemia is showing as born in Dunbar in her census entries. The entry I posted earlier for 1861 I think is likely hers:
Janet Young 39, farm servant b. N Berwick, Haddingtonshire
Fanny Young 16, farm servant b. England, Northamptonshire
Euphemia Smith 8, b. Dunbar
John Smith 7, b. Dunbar
Address: Lawhead Develling Houses, Whitekirk and Tynninghame, East Lothian
Janet as you know is a variant of Jessie.
One thing to take care with when using IGI for a parent search is that it brings up any children born to couple(s) with the same names. Sometimes it is very clear that all the children belong to one couple, other times you have to determine yourself sometimes by adding additional filters or checking censuses etc. whether there is more than one set of parents coming up on the search results.
Monica :)
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Dear all, I've just found some more hand-written documents on this family so thought I should share them as a way of helping and preserving them.
Do get in touch if you have anything further to add.
Brian
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Cornelius Smith 2
Brian
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Cornelius Smith document3
Brian
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Cornelius Smith document 4
Brian
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That's all for now.
I do hope these help or interest some distant cousin out there. If so, don't hesitate to get in touch. It's a complicated, inter-married family tree
Brian
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Copy of entries in a passbook in the writing of Cornelius Smith, saddler, Haddington
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Cornelius Smith and Catherine Finlayson married Feb. 4th 1809.
Catherine Smith Born Nov 8 1809
Jannet [sic] Smith Born June 15 1811
Margaret Smith Born April 1 1813
Hellen [sic] Smith Born April 20th 1815
George Smith was born April 1 1817
James Smith was born April 26 1819
John Smith was born March 11 1821
Robert Smith was born March 22 1823
Anne Smith was born March 5 1825
James Finlayson and Catherine Smith married 14 July 1820
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In [the] writing of above Catherine Finlayson
My dear grandson Robert Falconer was born Dec 2 1844
William Falconer was born 23 May 1846
My dear granddaughter, Cath. Smith, was born July 4th 1845,
George [Smith, was born] June 19 1848
Joseph James Falconer [was born] 30th April 1849
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My brother, James, died Feb. 9th 1849
My brother, John, died March 5 1855
Cath. Smith died 22 Feb 1891
Helen Smith died 8th June 1898
Cornelius Smith (husband) died 13th June1884
George Young died 6th Aug 1833 aged 57
Elizabeth Richardson died 25 July 1872 aged 85
George Young died 5th Dec 1870 aged 61
Jane Young died 12th Jan 1896 aged 69
Robert Young died 3rd Nov 1845 aged 14
David Young died 28th May 1848 aged 37
James Richardson died 4th July 1885
George James (son) died 2nd May 1865 at Phila
George Smith Jnr. died Feb 7 1810
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Hi Brian The lists that you have are the ones that I sent toyou some time ago. Its good to see them on here as will be helpful to others.
Mirrin
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Hi, I have been taking photo's of headstones in graveyards/cemeteries around East Lothian, transcribing them and adding a little research to the Find-a-Grave website. I use it because it's free and open to all.
I have just come across the memorial for James Finlayson & Catherine Smith their sons William & George. He was a Saddler in Dunbar. William was interred at Haddington, but James, Catherine & George are at Dunbar Parish Churchyard.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/224141040/james-finlayson
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Thank you for your post, very interesting.
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Thank you very much indeed.
Useful and filled in a few gaps and, of course, asked a few questions that I'm now trying to solve.
All the best
Brian
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I came across this board while researching a Robert Millar, saddler in Haddington, born about 1790. I am not sure if I have the right baptismal entry for him or not. However, I notice the witnesses were a Mungo Finlayson and William Begbie. There are a couple of other Millar children born to a John Millar and Mary Watt (or Wyatt) with the same witnesses. I wondered if they were in some way related to Katherine Millar who married Mungo Finlayson.
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Mungo and Katharine are my GGGG grandparents, but I've never managed to establish their origins with any certainty.
A Mungo FINLAYSON was baptised in St Cuthbert's, Edinburgh 14 May 1742, which would have made him 32 at the time of marriage, but is it, indeed, our Mungo?
The only remotely likely Katharine / Katherine Millar baptism I've found is 1733 so she doesn't fit but she could be this Katherine's mother.
I would assume that the they are all related as Haddington isn't very big even now and the fact that Mungo was a witness makes it even more likely.
More research needed - if more information is available.
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I'm currently transcribing the parish records of Haddington for FreeReg covering the 17th and 18th century It might be helpful for you to know that Finlayson and Miller are both very common names in Haddington in this period, with Finlayson usually spelled as Finlasone.
Bev
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I'm currently transcribing the parish records of Haddington for FreeReg covering the 17th and 18th century It might be helpful for you to know that Finlayson and Miller are both very common names in Haddington in this period, with Finlayson usually spelled as Finlasone.
Bev
That is great. It is always wonderful to hear of more records being transcribed. Thank you for that alternate spelling. I will keep that one in mind, too.
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Gravestone in Haddington reads as follows John Smith shoemaker Haddington died 13th October
1892 aged 71 Elizabeth Richardson his daughter died 18th April aged 39 George his son died 19th September 1898 aged 36 Also of Jessie Young his wife died 28th March 1908 aged 87.
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1851 census of Catherine( Finlayson) widow of Cornelius Smith with 2 children Cathrine age 41 family servant and John age 30 journeyman shoe maker.
The address is shown as 1 Market street, St Johns, Haddington.
I visited Haddington and found the house, it is on 3 levels. It can be found on the internet either as Kinloch house orDower house. It is now a lovely family home. What interests me was this house divided up into accommodation for families.
In the 1841 census they lived in Court street Haddington.